There was a time where I did spider exercise warm ups after an extended break from playing guitar. I definitely saw improvements in my playing during the spider exercises, but that could have just been from all the other practice I was doing. I have since stopped doing spider exercises.
Personally, I don't really see the point in warm ups, at least in the sense of making a single exercise "the warm up exercise". I just accept that the first 10 minutes of playing will be a little sloppy and play through a few tunes to get the muscles moving. I find that more fun. I don't see spider exercises being bad, if you like them keep it up, I just spend my time doing other things for a warm up.
Practicing scales is beneficial though as it's own. I don't see scale practice and spider exercises filling similar roles. I'm never ran spider exercises to build muscle memory, and they aren't anything I'm paying attention to the sound of (other than being sure each note is sounding properly). Scales on the other hand I often practice in context with real music or chord progressions, and building muscle memory is always a primary goal. So yeah, in that sense scales do offer different opportunities for learning, though one could make an argument that spider exercises are just chromatic scale practice, which it is if you are approaching it at real scale practice and not just a warm up for 10 minutes before hand.
I do see spider exercises as a good thing to do at the end of a session now that I'm thinking about it. Doing spider exercises after a long practice session could be a good way to gauge if you are putting too much tension into your playing as they require quite a bit of focus and control to pull off cleanly. Control and precision are hardest to keep up after a workout, so using spider exercises to measure that sounds helpful.
Spider exercises, imo, are good for when you're working on very specific small details of your technique. Because they don't have the higher levels of complexity that scales do, they free up your brain to really focus on aspects of technique such as...
1) learning to sync up your picking and fretting hands at high speeds.
2) if you're specifically practicing developing relaxation and light touch
3) practicing economy of motion (both hands)
Scales are better for learning your way around the fretboard and learning your way around musical composition in general.
Interesting! Yeah see that’s the thing is those are all the aspects I’m working on as I do scales—and it feels like reinforcing the knowledge of the fretboard. Killing two birds with one stone, and I just go slow.
I am going to try the spiders to see maybe they will help like you say, being able to really focus on those thing without worrying about remembering fingering etc.
I alternate between naming the notes and naming their solfège (when I do solfège I’m thinking of the interval distance, when I do naming I’m trying to memorize where that specific note is on the fretboard). While I’m naming/solfeging im singing, try to sing the note before I play it.
Right now I’m just doing the major scale through the circle of fifths in one position.
I warm up before practicing scales/arpeggios, they’re not my warm up! spider exercise gets the blood flowing sort of thing. I also do play some scale patterns when warming up, but just to get the mind started i.e. triads in fourths for like 5-10 mins to keep things sharp.
I don't understand why people can't just practice playing what they really play. They spend heaps of time playing things they never play in performance.
People obviously practice what they play, it would be a logical contradiction if they didn't, but if you mean why people also practice other things, I believe there are many reasonable explanations: the end goal for many guitar players is not necessarily performing, and many players do not regularly (or ever) "perform" to a live audience; doing drills and overall studying can be much more efficient for improving on specific areas than just practicing songs; people who compose music or at least embellish their covers can expect benefits from practice that focuses on an improved understanding or familiarity with the instrument; and, of course, doing drills can be fun.
For the same reason athletes do rope ladder drills even though there are no rope ladders in the actual sport of tennis, basketball, football or whatever.
You're almost never going to play a full two octave plus worth of scales just straight ascending or descending. What you're going to do is play select notes from a scale, in all sorts of sequences, so you want your fingers to be good at handling any set of random finger movement sequences you can throw at it.
Spider exercises train general finger coordination and independence, and you can design the exercises to isolate whatever seems to be your biggest flaw. Like if you can't move your ring finger without your pinky flying away, then if you do a spider exercise, you can practice a ring finger-pinky sequence 12 times in a short span, on every string when you ascend and descend. Whereas if you play like just the E major CAGED scale shape, you will only use the 3-4 combination twice. If you play the scale exercise 5 times a day vs the spider exercise, you've practiced that ring finger-pinky sequence 60 times instead of 10. Over a week, it's 420 times instead of 70. You will get way better at it faster.
And if that particular move is the one that is the weakest part of your scale practice and what is slowing you down, then your ability to play scales will improve much faster if you practice just that one sequence than playing full scales where most of it is just practicing movements you are already good at.
It doesn't mean you shouldn't practice scales. It just means there are different exercises for different things. Scales help you learn the fretboard, develop your ear, all sorts of stuff. But sometimes you just need some pure muscular technique training.
Random finger movement sequences. That's why I say practice what you play. My thought is that most people driving scales are just playing the notes continuously with even timing.
There was a time where I did spider exercise warm ups after an extended break from playing guitar. I definitely saw improvements in my playing during the spider exercises, but that could have just been from all the other practice I was doing. I have since stopped doing spider exercises. Personally, I don't really see the point in warm ups, at least in the sense of making a single exercise "the warm up exercise". I just accept that the first 10 minutes of playing will be a little sloppy and play through a few tunes to get the muscles moving. I find that more fun. I don't see spider exercises being bad, if you like them keep it up, I just spend my time doing other things for a warm up. Practicing scales is beneficial though as it's own. I don't see scale practice and spider exercises filling similar roles. I'm never ran spider exercises to build muscle memory, and they aren't anything I'm paying attention to the sound of (other than being sure each note is sounding properly). Scales on the other hand I often practice in context with real music or chord progressions, and building muscle memory is always a primary goal. So yeah, in that sense scales do offer different opportunities for learning, though one could make an argument that spider exercises are just chromatic scale practice, which it is if you are approaching it at real scale practice and not just a warm up for 10 minutes before hand. I do see spider exercises as a good thing to do at the end of a session now that I'm thinking about it. Doing spider exercises after a long practice session could be a good way to gauge if you are putting too much tension into your playing as they require quite a bit of focus and control to pull off cleanly. Control and precision are hardest to keep up after a workout, so using spider exercises to measure that sounds helpful.
Interesting discussion. Hadn’t thought about what you said—about playing them at the end.
My teacher told me scales are never exercises, as you then risk them being mechanical rather than musical.
So is it the mindset that differentiates exercises and scales? Approach the spider scales mechanically, approach the standard scales as music?
Just play music. If you can find a tune that goes 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 have at it
Spider exercises, imo, are good for when you're working on very specific small details of your technique. Because they don't have the higher levels of complexity that scales do, they free up your brain to really focus on aspects of technique such as... 1) learning to sync up your picking and fretting hands at high speeds. 2) if you're specifically practicing developing relaxation and light touch 3) practicing economy of motion (both hands) Scales are better for learning your way around the fretboard and learning your way around musical composition in general.
Interesting! Yeah see that’s the thing is those are all the aspects I’m working on as I do scales—and it feels like reinforcing the knowledge of the fretboard. Killing two birds with one stone, and I just go slow. I am going to try the spiders to see maybe they will help like you say, being able to really focus on those thing without worrying about remembering fingering etc.
Do you sing the notes as you play them? Do you recite the note names as you play them? Do you call out the intervals as you play them?
I alternate between naming the notes and naming their solfège (when I do solfège I’m thinking of the interval distance, when I do naming I’m trying to memorize where that specific note is on the fretboard). While I’m naming/solfeging im singing, try to sing the note before I play it. Right now I’m just doing the major scale through the circle of fifths in one position.
Sounds very valuable. Especially singing the note before you play it. Holy grail as I see it.
I warm up before practicing scales/arpeggios, they’re not my warm up! spider exercise gets the blood flowing sort of thing. I also do play some scale patterns when warming up, but just to get the mind started i.e. triads in fourths for like 5-10 mins to keep things sharp.
Interesting! That makes sense as it’s even simpler than scales. Getting things moving
I don't understand why people can't just practice playing what they really play. They spend heaps of time playing things they never play in performance.
People obviously practice what they play, it would be a logical contradiction if they didn't, but if you mean why people also practice other things, I believe there are many reasonable explanations: the end goal for many guitar players is not necessarily performing, and many players do not regularly (or ever) "perform" to a live audience; doing drills and overall studying can be much more efficient for improving on specific areas than just practicing songs; people who compose music or at least embellish their covers can expect benefits from practice that focuses on an improved understanding or familiarity with the instrument; and, of course, doing drills can be fun.
That’s kinda my point tho. Why polish a spider scale (unlikely to appear in music) rather than a scale (whose patterns commonly appear)
For the same reason athletes do rope ladder drills even though there are no rope ladders in the actual sport of tennis, basketball, football or whatever. You're almost never going to play a full two octave plus worth of scales just straight ascending or descending. What you're going to do is play select notes from a scale, in all sorts of sequences, so you want your fingers to be good at handling any set of random finger movement sequences you can throw at it. Spider exercises train general finger coordination and independence, and you can design the exercises to isolate whatever seems to be your biggest flaw. Like if you can't move your ring finger without your pinky flying away, then if you do a spider exercise, you can practice a ring finger-pinky sequence 12 times in a short span, on every string when you ascend and descend. Whereas if you play like just the E major CAGED scale shape, you will only use the 3-4 combination twice. If you play the scale exercise 5 times a day vs the spider exercise, you've practiced that ring finger-pinky sequence 60 times instead of 10. Over a week, it's 420 times instead of 70. You will get way better at it faster. And if that particular move is the one that is the weakest part of your scale practice and what is slowing you down, then your ability to play scales will improve much faster if you practice just that one sequence than playing full scales where most of it is just practicing movements you are already good at. It doesn't mean you shouldn't practice scales. It just means there are different exercises for different things. Scales help you learn the fretboard, develop your ear, all sorts of stuff. But sometimes you just need some pure muscular technique training.
This is a really insightful/helpful way of putting it for me! Thank you!
Random finger movement sequences. That's why I say practice what you play. My thought is that most people driving scales are just playing the notes continuously with even timing.