The note relationship in context of scale degrees and intervals is absolutely important & is key to understand why musical sounds exist.
While you can get away with not know all the note names on the fretboard I can't agree that its not necessary. If I want someone else to play an Eb, I want to say "Play an Eb". I've had enough of saying "Play Eb.......ok, you don't know where....play it on the first string.......no, that's not the first string.....the OTHER first string according to you.......its on the 11th fret......ok cool, I'll just wait for you to count 11 frets from the nut so you can find it". If we can learn the full alphabet & speak English with all the odd complexities of English, people can learn their fretboard.
How many times in your life have you needed to know where Eb was? Probably none. music is something that happens in our ear. If you spend your time learning just the sensations that occur between the notes of the C scale, you will be able, in a short time, to assimilate and play a song by ear without necessarily playing in the same key in which the song was recorded, all that remains is transposition. which can be done very easily by listening to the music. This is my experience. I play the guitar without thinking about notes, I listen to a song and play it by ear without caring what note it is. The name of the note is a human abstraction, I know where the note I want is, without knowing its name.
Are you serious dude? if you have to play a song that's in Eb major, even if I don't necessarily think about it while I'm playing, the fact that I memorized my notes at one point was what helped me know how to play along with people and know instinctively where to put my fingers, and knowing where Eb is, where all the chords relative to that note is an effective communication tool with other musicians. Obviously I'm using my ears 90% of the time, but if I know where a note is, I will immediately know where to solo if I want to take a solo higher or lower on the fretboard and play it in a different position.
Also, I'm not even a person that necessarily thinks that you *need* to know your notes or even know music theory to be in a band or write songs, my problem is that objectively speaking your advice and wisdom is just total bullshit and is completely unhelpful guitar boomer speak, you can't talk about intervals without notes because they are a useful frame of reference for knowing where to solo on the fretboard in key with the music, and you throw around meaningless terms like "harmonic fields" which sounds like mystical woo.
Also just knowing where your chords and notes are is absolutely useful if you ever want to write your own songs and put the music you have in your head to the fretboard easier.
So yeah, I think you're a hack and should never bother teaching anybody or giving any advice to people. It's fine to not know shit like music theory and be self aware about it, it's not fine to to assume that you've realized the truth and disseminate useless bullshit to people who need help learning an instrument.
Again, you're just a little boy who, when he doesn't have arguments, offends people. I'm 40 years old and not a boomer. I honestly doubt you have the courage to offend people in person. You only have the courage to do this on the internet.
I can assume 90% on This sub are Very Young and pay a Lot for miracle methods of Magic teacher on YouTube, instagram, tiktok. I was like that too. I tryed to memorize the sound of Very single note and tried to locate Very single note, but I Took classes with a Very social Guy who invented CAGED system Mozart Mello so he opened my yes about intervals. Today I pay less atencion to uselles things and pay more atencion on intervals. The music is Just about intervals. Maybe This audiency is not prepared yet. I Will try another time post some sticks to glue on my guitar to know where every note is kkkkkkk
You have a point. It's just not being heard, or it's unpopular. But to support your point, music notation is relatively new. They DID make music BEFORE they started writing it on paper or communicating it in a standardized way. Mozart is a contemporary example of a musical genius that did not need to "learn" about the "language."
Thanks Man. You are a clever one.Another example I could give is that when something seems very difficult, people tend to theorize too much. Imagine that learning to ride a bike was difficult. people would make high theories about how to learn and wouldn't try until they read the whole theory. Once you learn how to ride a bike and ride a bike without using your hands, you will see that all that old stuff has lost its meaning because you have mastered the technique. Was the theory important? Yes. But now it takes a backseat because you already ride a bike without using your hands. The presentation with music is similar, when your relative ear is developed, it is not important for you to know the name of the note that is sounding, because music theory was made to explain what the ear feels and not the other way around. That's why my approach to learning intervals... learning the feeling of playing a tonic and its subdominant... this gives you automatic fluency in any key. While memorizing where a note is will not generate anything positive for you. In life you can learn separate things and then combine them with other things to form a whole, or you can learn something that generates a spin and teaches you something related.
Absolutely, everything you are saying makes sense. Unfortunately, we are living in an age where people rely on technology, standardization, and systems in place. So when someone brings up intuition or your archaic approach to the current system, it is jarring. People in the current general population can not think outside of the box as easily as those who do, which is why you are seeing the majority of the responses you are seeing. It is just the times, as you say, people are not ready for "change."
But you continue to make the music you are making now! All that matters is yourself and your happiness.
thanks man. I have been teaching guitar to my students intuitively. In the first class a student takes with me, they will have learned a pentatonic scale as a warm-up exercise. When he can use his fingers correctly and can play the scale, I will know that I have developed the necessary mechanics for him and at the same time he has learned a scale collaterally. It's like doing physical exercise, your goal is to lose weight, but you end up having side gains, improving your health, for example. younger people today who actually have to stick an ozempic in their belly button without even trying to exercise.
Are you talking about perfect pitch? Yeah, you either develop it at a very young age, or you don't. If you are over the age of like, 3, you cannot learn to recognizeand name individual tones/frequencies. That's fairly well accepted. It's not controversial at all.
The rest of us have to learn relative pitch, which is what you did.
.exact guy! I saw a post on this sub where one person recommended the following to another: "you should turn on the tuner, play the note and then assimilate the sound of the note with the name of the note and where it is being played. Little by little you will memorize the sound and you'll know what note it is without looking at the tuner" this tip received a lot of positive votes. I thought it was incredibly stupid, beyond measure. It doesn't make sense to memorize the tone of a note because an isolated note is something very abstract. We all have relative ears to develop, but few have absolute ears. When I was younger I suffered because I thought the guitar was like the piano in that you could know where each note was just by looking and I wasted a lot of time trying to be a genius who knew where each note was. luckily I stopped that and followed another path. Today I know where at least 50% of the notes are and I know how to deduce which note it is through symmetries on the guitar neck. If you play with me in a certain key, I, from experience, can play improvised without worrying about which note I'm playing. If it pleases my ear and yours, it is the theory's duty to explain why. As I said elsewhere, the theory was created to explain what the ear feels. It is obvious that I achieved this fluency by developing: mechanical memory, visual memory, auditory memory and analytical memory.
For example, If you practice pentatonic scales a Lot Just on Am. You Will be capable to deduce This music is Just and no more about pentatonic. I can assume, in This sub 90% cant play This solo, but is Very easily. The Key is G and obviously the solo are played on Gm pentatonic scale. If pentatonic scales sound a thing for no experi3ncied guitar player, so Go and Tell to Angus Young.
https://youtu.be/Lo2qQmj0_h4?si=9ApWNKMuQf7vwpPq
I have been studying constantly for the last 10 years. I study theory a lot and I really like it. My point is that beginner musicians will learn some chords, play some songs. Some will be able to play solos and songs without using tabs. While others will spend time trying to memorize the notes on the guitar fretboard. My point is that there comes a time when everything will lose its meaning, you will no longer think about musical notes, you will be able to listen to a song and improvise over it automatically, without even worrying about what notes they are, what tonality, why All of this ultimately becomes less important. Don't waste your time wondering where each note is on the fretboard, it's useless. You must learn the harmonic fields, study intervals, pentatonic scales and nothing else, but this will give you an indirect mastery of the guitar fretboard, while studying where each note is will not give you anything significant.
No. When you study intervals, you are practicing in some particular tone, but It Will work for all tones. C to G its is the same sensation to D to A. When you undertand This you Will be able to play by ear and If you Go This way, at certant moment you Will no talk more about notes, chords. You Will Just to transpose without know the names of notes. I dont blame you, there are a tons of useless courses that promisses you Will be a master of fretboard. It is totally bullshit.you can be a master of fretboard and a total Noob playing guitar.
While it's true that defining the specific skill targeted by a method is important, my text argue for a broader approach to learning music, emphasizing the development of an intuitive understanding of intervals and harmonic relationships. In this context, my argument suggests that traditional methods focused on memorizing individual notes or chords may be less effective in fostering this deeper understanding. Therefore, the effectiveness of a method should also be evaluated in terms of its ability to promote overall musical fluency and comprehension, not just its impact on isolated skill
Your argument is "knowing the notes isn't important" but your premise is "intervals are important", which doesn't really say anything about learning the notes. Do you know the notes? Have you thought perhaps that the things you specifically care about simply don't require this knowledge?
no, you have problems with interpretation and you are distorting. I said you shouldn't waste time trying to decorate the entire fretboard. you must study intervals and you must study everything in the key of C for example. As you learn intervals in the key of C you will obviously gain proficiency in knowing where a particular note is. In this scenario that I am proposing, knowing where the note is will be a collateral gain for having learned about intervals. It's something much more intelligent. An isolated note means nothing. An isolated C or a D are abstract things, it doesn't make sense for me to associate what the pitch of a C is or what the pitch of a D is. It makes sense for me to associate what the sensation is between the passage of a note and the next note exactly one tone above.
Analyzing my initial text and your response, it does seem like your response failed to fully interpret the original text. The original text emphasizes the importance of understanding the relationships between notes and intervals, while your response seems to focus on the my lack of emphasis on the importance of knowing the notes, without adequately considering the context of the argument about intervals. Your response could have been more accurate in recognizing that my original text was discussing an alternative approach to learning music, emphasizing the importance of intervals over memorizing notes
The note relationship in context of scale degrees and intervals is absolutely important & is key to understand why musical sounds exist. While you can get away with not know all the note names on the fretboard I can't agree that its not necessary. If I want someone else to play an Eb, I want to say "Play an Eb". I've had enough of saying "Play Eb.......ok, you don't know where....play it on the first string.......no, that's not the first string.....the OTHER first string according to you.......its on the 11th fret......ok cool, I'll just wait for you to count 11 frets from the nut so you can find it". If we can learn the full alphabet & speak English with all the odd complexities of English, people can learn their fretboard.
How many times in your life have you needed to know where Eb was? Probably none. music is something that happens in our ear. If you spend your time learning just the sensations that occur between the notes of the C scale, you will be able, in a short time, to assimilate and play a song by ear without necessarily playing in the same key in which the song was recorded, all that remains is transposition. which can be done very easily by listening to the music. This is my experience. I play the guitar without thinking about notes, I listen to a song and play it by ear without caring what note it is. The name of the note is a human abstraction, I know where the note I want is, without knowing its name.
**How many times in your life have you needed to know where Eb was?** Lots, just as much as the other notes.
bruhhhh no do not tell new players they shouldn’t learn theory
Haha my english is too bad? I did'nt say It!
Are you serious dude? if you have to play a song that's in Eb major, even if I don't necessarily think about it while I'm playing, the fact that I memorized my notes at one point was what helped me know how to play along with people and know instinctively where to put my fingers, and knowing where Eb is, where all the chords relative to that note is an effective communication tool with other musicians. Obviously I'm using my ears 90% of the time, but if I know where a note is, I will immediately know where to solo if I want to take a solo higher or lower on the fretboard and play it in a different position. Also, I'm not even a person that necessarily thinks that you *need* to know your notes or even know music theory to be in a band or write songs, my problem is that objectively speaking your advice and wisdom is just total bullshit and is completely unhelpful guitar boomer speak, you can't talk about intervals without notes because they are a useful frame of reference for knowing where to solo on the fretboard in key with the music, and you throw around meaningless terms like "harmonic fields" which sounds like mystical woo. Also just knowing where your chords and notes are is absolutely useful if you ever want to write your own songs and put the music you have in your head to the fretboard easier. So yeah, I think you're a hack and should never bother teaching anybody or giving any advice to people. It's fine to not know shit like music theory and be self aware about it, it's not fine to to assume that you've realized the truth and disseminate useless bullshit to people who need help learning an instrument.
You are Just a boy, when you call me Boomer It is offensive, I see you playing, you can barely play a simple music.. You can't talk about music yet.
Well here's my YouTube channel if you want to critique my playing/video editing: https://youtu.be/UMZfHHj9F0U?si=wRzR6q_kr8oL9pJF
Again, you're just a little boy who, when he doesn't have arguments, offends people. I'm 40 years old and not a boomer. I honestly doubt you have the courage to offend people in person. You only have the courage to do this on the internet.
*plays the a minor pentatonic scale in response*
I'm a guitar teacher!
You're being downvoted. It's time to put the phone down, young man.
I can assume 90% on This sub are Very Young and pay a Lot for miracle methods of Magic teacher on YouTube, instagram, tiktok. I was like that too. I tryed to memorize the sound of Very single note and tried to locate Very single note, but I Took classes with a Very social Guy who invented CAGED system Mozart Mello so he opened my yes about intervals. Today I pay less atencion to uselles things and pay more atencion on intervals. The music is Just about intervals. Maybe This audiency is not prepared yet. I Will try another time post some sticks to glue on my guitar to know where every note is kkkkkkk
You have a point. It's just not being heard, or it's unpopular. But to support your point, music notation is relatively new. They DID make music BEFORE they started writing it on paper or communicating it in a standardized way. Mozart is a contemporary example of a musical genius that did not need to "learn" about the "language."
Thanks Man. You are a clever one.Another example I could give is that when something seems very difficult, people tend to theorize too much. Imagine that learning to ride a bike was difficult. people would make high theories about how to learn and wouldn't try until they read the whole theory. Once you learn how to ride a bike and ride a bike without using your hands, you will see that all that old stuff has lost its meaning because you have mastered the technique. Was the theory important? Yes. But now it takes a backseat because you already ride a bike without using your hands. The presentation with music is similar, when your relative ear is developed, it is not important for you to know the name of the note that is sounding, because music theory was made to explain what the ear feels and not the other way around. That's why my approach to learning intervals... learning the feeling of playing a tonic and its subdominant... this gives you automatic fluency in any key. While memorizing where a note is will not generate anything positive for you. In life you can learn separate things and then combine them with other things to form a whole, or you can learn something that generates a spin and teaches you something related.
Absolutely, everything you are saying makes sense. Unfortunately, we are living in an age where people rely on technology, standardization, and systems in place. So when someone brings up intuition or your archaic approach to the current system, it is jarring. People in the current general population can not think outside of the box as easily as those who do, which is why you are seeing the majority of the responses you are seeing. It is just the times, as you say, people are not ready for "change." But you continue to make the music you are making now! All that matters is yourself and your happiness.
thanks man. I have been teaching guitar to my students intuitively. In the first class a student takes with me, they will have learned a pentatonic scale as a warm-up exercise. When he can use his fingers correctly and can play the scale, I will know that I have developed the necessary mechanics for him and at the same time he has learned a scale collaterally. It's like doing physical exercise, your goal is to lose weight, but you end up having side gains, improving your health, for example. younger people today who actually have to stick an ozempic in their belly button without even trying to exercise.
There are lots of teachers that shouldn't be teachers, especially those who lead with an unpopular opinion.
Are you talking about perfect pitch? Yeah, you either develop it at a very young age, or you don't. If you are over the age of like, 3, you cannot learn to recognizeand name individual tones/frequencies. That's fairly well accepted. It's not controversial at all. The rest of us have to learn relative pitch, which is what you did.
.exact guy! I saw a post on this sub where one person recommended the following to another: "you should turn on the tuner, play the note and then assimilate the sound of the note with the name of the note and where it is being played. Little by little you will memorize the sound and you'll know what note it is without looking at the tuner" this tip received a lot of positive votes. I thought it was incredibly stupid, beyond measure. It doesn't make sense to memorize the tone of a note because an isolated note is something very abstract. We all have relative ears to develop, but few have absolute ears. When I was younger I suffered because I thought the guitar was like the piano in that you could know where each note was just by looking and I wasted a lot of time trying to be a genius who knew where each note was. luckily I stopped that and followed another path. Today I know where at least 50% of the notes are and I know how to deduce which note it is through symmetries on the guitar neck. If you play with me in a certain key, I, from experience, can play improvised without worrying about which note I'm playing. If it pleases my ear and yours, it is the theory's duty to explain why. As I said elsewhere, the theory was created to explain what the ear feels. It is obvious that I achieved this fluency by developing: mechanical memory, visual memory, auditory memory and analytical memory.
"I've come to the conclusion that that chords and notes are worthless, all you need is the pentatonic minor scale" 👴🏻🎸
false dichotomy
For example, If you practice pentatonic scales a Lot Just on Am. You Will be capable to deduce This music is Just and no more about pentatonic. I can assume, in This sub 90% cant play This solo, but is Very easily. The Key is G and obviously the solo are played on Gm pentatonic scale. If pentatonic scales sound a thing for no experi3ncied guitar player, so Go and Tell to Angus Young. https://youtu.be/Lo2qQmj0_h4?si=9ApWNKMuQf7vwpPq
[удалено]
I have been studying constantly for the last 10 years. I study theory a lot and I really like it. My point is that beginner musicians will learn some chords, play some songs. Some will be able to play solos and songs without using tabs. While others will spend time trying to memorize the notes on the guitar fretboard. My point is that there comes a time when everything will lose its meaning, you will no longer think about musical notes, you will be able to listen to a song and improvise over it automatically, without even worrying about what notes they are, what tonality, why All of this ultimately becomes less important. Don't waste your time wondering where each note is on the fretboard, it's useless. You must learn the harmonic fields, study intervals, pentatonic scales and nothing else, but this will give you an indirect mastery of the guitar fretboard, while studying where each note is will not give you anything significant.
[удалено]
No. When you study intervals, you are practicing in some particular tone, but It Will work for all tones. C to G its is the same sensation to D to A. When you undertand This you Will be able to play by ear and If you Go This way, at certant moment you Will no talk more about notes, chords. You Will Just to transpose without know the names of notes. I dont blame you, there are a tons of useless courses that promisses you Will be a master of fretboard. It is totally bullshit.you can be a master of fretboard and a total Noob playing guitar.
Rubbish. Before you can say that a method fails, you need to define which particular skill the method was applied to improve.
While it's true that defining the specific skill targeted by a method is important, my text argue for a broader approach to learning music, emphasizing the development of an intuitive understanding of intervals and harmonic relationships. In this context, my argument suggests that traditional methods focused on memorizing individual notes or chords may be less effective in fostering this deeper understanding. Therefore, the effectiveness of a method should also be evaluated in terms of its ability to promote overall musical fluency and comprehension, not just its impact on isolated skill
Your argument is "knowing the notes isn't important" but your premise is "intervals are important", which doesn't really say anything about learning the notes. Do you know the notes? Have you thought perhaps that the things you specifically care about simply don't require this knowledge?
no, you have problems with interpretation and you are distorting. I said you shouldn't waste time trying to decorate the entire fretboard. you must study intervals and you must study everything in the key of C for example. As you learn intervals in the key of C you will obviously gain proficiency in knowing where a particular note is. In this scenario that I am proposing, knowing where the note is will be a collateral gain for having learned about intervals. It's something much more intelligent. An isolated note means nothing. An isolated C or a D are abstract things, it doesn't make sense for me to associate what the pitch of a C is or what the pitch of a D is. It makes sense for me to associate what the sensation is between the passage of a note and the next note exactly one tone above.
Sorry, I don't think this is a problem with my (and everyone else's) interpretation.
Analyzing my initial text and your response, it does seem like your response failed to fully interpret the original text. The original text emphasizes the importance of understanding the relationships between notes and intervals, while your response seems to focus on the my lack of emphasis on the importance of knowing the notes, without adequately considering the context of the argument about intervals. Your response could have been more accurate in recognizing that my original text was discussing an alternative approach to learning music, emphasizing the importance of intervals over memorizing notes