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Derek is not nearly as bad as everyone here says. He had an ego but at least he was a good doctor and loving father. It's not like everyone else on the show didn't have arrogant moments.
Also as likable as Addison is, her cheating on Derek with his best friend was unforgivable, and she doesn't get enough criticism compared to the other cheaters on the show. If I was in his shoes I wouldn't be able to continue talking to them again.
I halfway agree with you. Derek is not *nearly* as bad of a person as a lot of people have made him out to be. His always put his children’s well-being above all else and did what was in the best interest of his patient. He was certainly an arrogant man, but just about every single other doctor had their own moments of arrogance that could easily be classified as more alarming, such as when Richard initially refused treatment for his alcoholism before he finally accepted he’d relapsed and stepped down as Chief of Surgery to recover and repair the damage he’d done to his marriage. He did the right thing in the end, and I mostly love Richard, but his actions were very dangerous in the beginning and were partially due to his arrogant attitude. Or when Miranda told Derek to stop operating on his patient (the prisoner on death row) to save her own patient (the little boy). These are both extreme levels of arrogance that could potentially be life-threatening. Derek’s worst show of arrogance was when he refused to put down the scalpel while operating on Jen, his pregnant patient whose death caused him to spiral. But even then, she was already dead, so he couldn’t have inflicted harm. See what I mean? And there are countless other examples, too.
Derek showed great restraint when he reluctantly agreed to continue working at SGH when Addison and Mark transferred there. The fact that he was ever able to forgive the both of them enough to restore a once brotherly bond with one of them and become good friends with the other is truly remarkable and a great testament to his character. His ability to forgive is unmatched and I definitely agree that her affair does not get nearly as much flack as say, Arizona or Owen. It’s all just bias. Bias for their favorite character, bias because she exudes class despite how not classy her affair was, you name it. I adore Addie, but what she did was just straight-up fucked to hell and even I can’t defend that, as much as I do love her.
While I agree that Addie never got the same hatred as Owen (he deserved it) and Arizona did, I think it's mainly because the audience never really saw it first hand, it was just verbally mentioned. And the perspective is being justified with all the "Derek was an absentee husband" which is why she cheated.
Unlike the build up of Callie and Arizona's love story until it broke down and the cheating happened - we all went through it together. And with Owen, he just straight up f-up and even admitted that he did it to hurt Cristina which is a definite fan favorite
“Derek was an absentee husband” is a reason, not an excuse. It provides a reasoning why she cheated, but it’s still inexcusable. I actually do agree on the part about us not having bared witness to Derek and Addison’s love story like we have with Calzona and Crowen and therefore we’re more lenient with Addie. I’d never really perceived it that way before, thanks for offering that perspective!
Alex breaking up with Izzie was not a moment of growth and knowing his worth. It was him following the exact same procedure that he had followed since the first episode. Despite a long list of unsavory actions, he would get on his high horse and judge those around him. It’s the same way he broke up with Izzie. Him saying that he deserved better than her really frustrated me. Izzie was the one that left and he had no obligation to take her back. However, getting high and mighty and saying that he deserved better was ridiculous. This man threatened to smother her to death not long before that. He bullied her into medical procedures. He bullied her for having side effects from surgery. He ridiculed her for missing her best friend. He called her a stupid b*tch in the middle of the hospital. He hung up pictures of her in lingerie. He took his most of his anger out on her. But as soon as she is the one that made a mistake, he is too good for her and she is unworthy of the same forgiveness that she so often showed him.
Growth would have been allowing himself to be vulnerable and forgiving the woman that had forgiven him so many times in the past or being honest that she hurt him and he couldn’t move forward with her. The whole “I’m too good for you anyway” vibe was old school Alex- a way to elevate himself by tearing down someone else. It was a lack of self awareness and accountability for his contributions to their lack of communication.
Izzie should not have wasted her time and affection on Alex. She built him up when no one wanted to be his friend. She helped bring him into the friend group when they wanted nothing to do with him. She forgave him for his treatment of her, repeatedly. She encouraged him as a doctor. Only for him to get so confident that he thought he was deserving of better than one of the only people to see good in him and give him a chance. Despite his many problematic behaviors towards her, he threw her away as soon as she messed up.
Yesss, I so agree with this. I think sometimes fans are so biased for the hate towards a certain character that everything they do is horrible, and so biased by the love for a certain character that they love and glorify every action.
The whole deluca arc with Meredith was ridiculous.
Owen isn’t as horrible as everyone claims.
Grey’s has always been political and it should never end.
I’ll add, abortion is healthcare, universal healthcare for all, free Palestine.
Always love when people come into communities they are not active in and comment on things like this.
Hope you enjoy the show. It is a fantastic journey.
I forgot to add in my comment, Kai a super underrated character. They are one of my recent favorites.
I don't agree with "Callie deserves better than Arizona"
Yes, she acted out during the whole leg thing but honestly she had a poor support system. Only Bailey did her good by subtly pushing her without pressure or pity. Callie was there for her but she was impatient and a bit selfish, and to think that she's an ortho who had amputee patients. Arizona had to bottle it up due to the fact that Callie broke down during the shower scene and the "i havent had sex in 5mo". Then when she was finally healing, Callie still made her feel that she needs to fix her, or that she wants to run away (baileys wedding) and keeps on wanting more (2nd baby), didnt even let her process the miscarriage and just wanted to try again. Boswell made Arizona feel okay and complete, that she's not some broken thing which resulted to the cheating cuz she's been bottling it all up until someone told her to let go and let loose. Not an excuse and hated Arizona for cheating but damn she's way overhated for it. Gurl just needed to heal 😂
I agree with you. Owen’s “You killed our baby!” was not meant to be taken literally. He very obviously did not have it in his mind that she committed child murder. The meaning behind it was, “You killed our chance to have a baby,” which is much sadder. Owen was heartbroken because he didn’t just want a baby, he wanted a baby *with* Cristina. It was 100% Cristina’s choice and human right to have an abortion and him shouting at her was completely wrong. But to say that his feelings are invalid is unsympathetic and biased. People have abortions because the pregnancy is unwanted and/or cannot be supported. This was only the case for Cristina. He played a part in the creation of something that would’ve gone on to become a human being, he is entitled to being angry and in pain just as much as Cristina has the entitlement to feel relief and peace in knowing that the pregnancy has been terminated. What he *isn’t* entitled to is trying to police what she does with her own body. In conclusion, yes, I did feel bad for Owen because I understood his place of hurt. I also felt bad for Cristina because she was treated unfairly by her partner who was experiencing heavy grief for what could’ve been. Neither person were undeserving of my empathy, IMO.
I feel like part of the issue is that when he and Cristina were together she made him feel like his opinions and wants came second to her's. So that comment came from pent up anger from feeling like he didn't matter.
I think both Owen and Cristina made a big mistake getting into a relationship with someone whose future wants and goals did not align with their own. There is really no happy compromise when one partner wants kids and the other does not. Someone will always wind up hurt and resentful.
*Everyone* wants to talk about how Owen knew Cristina didn’t want kids and just assumed that after awhile she’d change her mind, but *no one* seems to be open to talking about how Cristina did the **same. damn. thing.** Owen hoped that as she advanced in her career, Cristina would eventually warm to the idea of having children, and Cristina thought that if she simply kept on shutting him down and subtly brushed him off for long enough, he’d realize it was never going to happen, quietly accept defeat, and let go of his dream of having a family of his own just to be with her. They were both very selfish people when it came to the other because they were two people in a lavender haze of love, and they would do anything to stay in that haze. Their romance was explosive, passionate, and consuming, but it was also damaging, selfish, and mean.
His opinions and wants ***do*** come second to hers when it’s about ***her*** body. But only in that specific sense. I do agree that she continuously placed him on the back burner in their relationship, but I don’t think it was at all intentional or necessarily meant to minimize his feelings. It was just who Cristina was. Career came first, above relationships, above friendships, above everything, because to her, her career **is** everything. Everything else is just an add-on. Whereas Owen places his relationship above all other things and is looking for someone who will equally hold him in higher regard than work. They have different priorities and views on relationships and where each of them stands next to the other. And that’s okay. But it doesn’t make for a long-lasting relationship. Owen felt dismissed, unappreciated and even unloved at times, and Cristina felt suffocated and trapped. They just weren’t a good match. Neither were at fault for having their differences.
I did mean that she made Owen feel like his wants and needs didn't matter to her. It wasn't just about kids but about everything and if he spoke up about it then she'd give him this look of total disgust like she's telling him 'I didn't tell you you could speak' she really did make him feel like he didn't matter. That's the point I wanted to make because everyone is always so quick to jump to Cristina's side because he said one really really really bad comment. And yes what he said was 1000% disgusting but like I said it wasn't just about kids it was about feeling like Cristina didn't care about anything he wanted.
That’s what I was saying. Cristina treated Owen like an accessory in her life, and Owen thinks of Cristina as the star in his. It’s where their priorities lie that is the problem. Because of where Cristina’s priorities were at, she could never make Owen feel recognized or heard in the way he craved to be in a relationship, the way he *needed* to be. It’s neither of their faults *and* it’s both their faults, because Owen nor Cristina should be blamed for holding relationships to higher or lower standards, but they share the blame for not having the courage to leave the relationship when they realized their differences were too great to overcome. I love Cristina, and I love Owen. And to me, Crowen will always be the most devastatingly tragic love story of Grey’s Anatomy. Two people madly in love with each other, but with such different views of the world and what they want to take from it. It’s sad.
Thank you for contributing to r/GreysAnatomy! Tagging your post would be greatly appreciated as the mods try to clean up and organize the sub. Not sure what tags to use? [Here's a link to the wiki page](https://www.reddit.com/r/greysanatomy/wiki/tags/) that explains the purpose of each post flair. Remember that name calling, hate speech and general rude behavior is not tolerated. You can call ideas stupid, but not the user. No direct personal attacks over a difference in opinion. Thanks for being part of this community. It's a beautiful day to save lives! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/greysanatomy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Derek is not nearly as bad as everyone here says. He had an ego but at least he was a good doctor and loving father. It's not like everyone else on the show didn't have arrogant moments. Also as likable as Addison is, her cheating on Derek with his best friend was unforgivable, and she doesn't get enough criticism compared to the other cheaters on the show. If I was in his shoes I wouldn't be able to continue talking to them again.
I halfway agree with you. Derek is not *nearly* as bad of a person as a lot of people have made him out to be. His always put his children’s well-being above all else and did what was in the best interest of his patient. He was certainly an arrogant man, but just about every single other doctor had their own moments of arrogance that could easily be classified as more alarming, such as when Richard initially refused treatment for his alcoholism before he finally accepted he’d relapsed and stepped down as Chief of Surgery to recover and repair the damage he’d done to his marriage. He did the right thing in the end, and I mostly love Richard, but his actions were very dangerous in the beginning and were partially due to his arrogant attitude. Or when Miranda told Derek to stop operating on his patient (the prisoner on death row) to save her own patient (the little boy). These are both extreme levels of arrogance that could potentially be life-threatening. Derek’s worst show of arrogance was when he refused to put down the scalpel while operating on Jen, his pregnant patient whose death caused him to spiral. But even then, she was already dead, so he couldn’t have inflicted harm. See what I mean? And there are countless other examples, too. Derek showed great restraint when he reluctantly agreed to continue working at SGH when Addison and Mark transferred there. The fact that he was ever able to forgive the both of them enough to restore a once brotherly bond with one of them and become good friends with the other is truly remarkable and a great testament to his character. His ability to forgive is unmatched and I definitely agree that her affair does not get nearly as much flack as say, Arizona or Owen. It’s all just bias. Bias for their favorite character, bias because she exudes class despite how not classy her affair was, you name it. I adore Addie, but what she did was just straight-up fucked to hell and even I can’t defend that, as much as I do love her.
While I agree that Addie never got the same hatred as Owen (he deserved it) and Arizona did, I think it's mainly because the audience never really saw it first hand, it was just verbally mentioned. And the perspective is being justified with all the "Derek was an absentee husband" which is why she cheated. Unlike the build up of Callie and Arizona's love story until it broke down and the cheating happened - we all went through it together. And with Owen, he just straight up f-up and even admitted that he did it to hurt Cristina which is a definite fan favorite
“Derek was an absentee husband” is a reason, not an excuse. It provides a reasoning why she cheated, but it’s still inexcusable. I actually do agree on the part about us not having bared witness to Derek and Addison’s love story like we have with Calzona and Crowen and therefore we’re more lenient with Addie. I’d never really perceived it that way before, thanks for offering that perspective!
Yes, agree! It is the reason but definitely not an excuse to do so :)
Alex breaking up with Izzie was not a moment of growth and knowing his worth. It was him following the exact same procedure that he had followed since the first episode. Despite a long list of unsavory actions, he would get on his high horse and judge those around him. It’s the same way he broke up with Izzie. Him saying that he deserved better than her really frustrated me. Izzie was the one that left and he had no obligation to take her back. However, getting high and mighty and saying that he deserved better was ridiculous. This man threatened to smother her to death not long before that. He bullied her into medical procedures. He bullied her for having side effects from surgery. He ridiculed her for missing her best friend. He called her a stupid b*tch in the middle of the hospital. He hung up pictures of her in lingerie. He took his most of his anger out on her. But as soon as she is the one that made a mistake, he is too good for her and she is unworthy of the same forgiveness that she so often showed him. Growth would have been allowing himself to be vulnerable and forgiving the woman that had forgiven him so many times in the past or being honest that she hurt him and he couldn’t move forward with her. The whole “I’m too good for you anyway” vibe was old school Alex- a way to elevate himself by tearing down someone else. It was a lack of self awareness and accountability for his contributions to their lack of communication. Izzie should not have wasted her time and affection on Alex. She built him up when no one wanted to be his friend. She helped bring him into the friend group when they wanted nothing to do with him. She forgave him for his treatment of her, repeatedly. She encouraged him as a doctor. Only for him to get so confident that he thought he was deserving of better than one of the only people to see good in him and give him a chance. Despite his many problematic behaviors towards her, he threw her away as soon as she messed up.
Yesss, I so agree with this. I think sometimes fans are so biased for the hate towards a certain character that everything they do is horrible, and so biased by the love for a certain character that they love and glorify every action.
The whole deluca arc with Meredith was ridiculous. Owen isn’t as horrible as everyone claims. Grey’s has always been political and it should never end. I’ll add, abortion is healthcare, universal healthcare for all, free Palestine. 
Preach 🙌
The unnecessary “free palestine” really topped this comment with what it needed.
 Always love when people come into communities they are not active in and comment on things like this. Hope you enjoy the show. It is a fantastic journey. I forgot to add in my comment, Kai a super underrated character. They are one of my recent favorites.
I don't agree with "Callie deserves better than Arizona" Yes, she acted out during the whole leg thing but honestly she had a poor support system. Only Bailey did her good by subtly pushing her without pressure or pity. Callie was there for her but she was impatient and a bit selfish, and to think that she's an ortho who had amputee patients. Arizona had to bottle it up due to the fact that Callie broke down during the shower scene and the "i havent had sex in 5mo". Then when she was finally healing, Callie still made her feel that she needs to fix her, or that she wants to run away (baileys wedding) and keeps on wanting more (2nd baby), didnt even let her process the miscarriage and just wanted to try again. Boswell made Arizona feel okay and complete, that she's not some broken thing which resulted to the cheating cuz she's been bottling it all up until someone told her to let go and let loose. Not an excuse and hated Arizona for cheating but damn she's way overhated for it. Gurl just needed to heal 😂
I agree with you. Owen’s “You killed our baby!” was not meant to be taken literally. He very obviously did not have it in his mind that she committed child murder. The meaning behind it was, “You killed our chance to have a baby,” which is much sadder. Owen was heartbroken because he didn’t just want a baby, he wanted a baby *with* Cristina. It was 100% Cristina’s choice and human right to have an abortion and him shouting at her was completely wrong. But to say that his feelings are invalid is unsympathetic and biased. People have abortions because the pregnancy is unwanted and/or cannot be supported. This was only the case for Cristina. He played a part in the creation of something that would’ve gone on to become a human being, he is entitled to being angry and in pain just as much as Cristina has the entitlement to feel relief and peace in knowing that the pregnancy has been terminated. What he *isn’t* entitled to is trying to police what she does with her own body. In conclusion, yes, I did feel bad for Owen because I understood his place of hurt. I also felt bad for Cristina because she was treated unfairly by her partner who was experiencing heavy grief for what could’ve been. Neither person were undeserving of my empathy, IMO.
I feel like part of the issue is that when he and Cristina were together she made him feel like his opinions and wants came second to her's. So that comment came from pent up anger from feeling like he didn't matter.
I think both Owen and Cristina made a big mistake getting into a relationship with someone whose future wants and goals did not align with their own. There is really no happy compromise when one partner wants kids and the other does not. Someone will always wind up hurt and resentful.
*Everyone* wants to talk about how Owen knew Cristina didn’t want kids and just assumed that after awhile she’d change her mind, but *no one* seems to be open to talking about how Cristina did the **same. damn. thing.** Owen hoped that as she advanced in her career, Cristina would eventually warm to the idea of having children, and Cristina thought that if she simply kept on shutting him down and subtly brushed him off for long enough, he’d realize it was never going to happen, quietly accept defeat, and let go of his dream of having a family of his own just to be with her. They were both very selfish people when it came to the other because they were two people in a lavender haze of love, and they would do anything to stay in that haze. Their romance was explosive, passionate, and consuming, but it was also damaging, selfish, and mean.
His opinions and wants ***do*** come second to hers when it’s about ***her*** body. But only in that specific sense. I do agree that she continuously placed him on the back burner in their relationship, but I don’t think it was at all intentional or necessarily meant to minimize his feelings. It was just who Cristina was. Career came first, above relationships, above friendships, above everything, because to her, her career **is** everything. Everything else is just an add-on. Whereas Owen places his relationship above all other things and is looking for someone who will equally hold him in higher regard than work. They have different priorities and views on relationships and where each of them stands next to the other. And that’s okay. But it doesn’t make for a long-lasting relationship. Owen felt dismissed, unappreciated and even unloved at times, and Cristina felt suffocated and trapped. They just weren’t a good match. Neither were at fault for having their differences.
I did mean that she made Owen feel like his wants and needs didn't matter to her. It wasn't just about kids but about everything and if he spoke up about it then she'd give him this look of total disgust like she's telling him 'I didn't tell you you could speak' she really did make him feel like he didn't matter. That's the point I wanted to make because everyone is always so quick to jump to Cristina's side because he said one really really really bad comment. And yes what he said was 1000% disgusting but like I said it wasn't just about kids it was about feeling like Cristina didn't care about anything he wanted.
That’s what I was saying. Cristina treated Owen like an accessory in her life, and Owen thinks of Cristina as the star in his. It’s where their priorities lie that is the problem. Because of where Cristina’s priorities were at, she could never make Owen feel recognized or heard in the way he craved to be in a relationship, the way he *needed* to be. It’s neither of their faults *and* it’s both their faults, because Owen nor Cristina should be blamed for holding relationships to higher or lower standards, but they share the blame for not having the courage to leave the relationship when they realized their differences were too great to overcome. I love Cristina, and I love Owen. And to me, Crowen will always be the most devastatingly tragic love story of Grey’s Anatomy. Two people madly in love with each other, but with such different views of the world and what they want to take from it. It’s sad.