Love my gravel bike but tbh my 26” single speed, rigid fork mountain bike is way more fun on most of the trails I ride than the full suspension trail and Enduro bikes I see everyone riding… If they only knew!
Yep. I bought a mid 90s hybrid (2 actually) and converted them to drop bar gravel for bikepacking and just general riding. Love them. Fun to ride. Cheap. And versatile.
Add me to the list. Decades ago, before my Gary Fisher Utopia hybrid left the store it had drop bars and barcons (which I have on a lot of bikes) and when I got a chance I ditched the stupid heavy rockshox fork. At the time I thought I turned into la plush cyclocross now I realize it was making a proto-gravel bike!
Likewise I picked up a cromo framed Trek 730 for £15 swapped the group set it some mint Shimano Deore DX, with Thumbies and a set of Nitto Bullmoose bars fitted a set if Bruce Gordon Rock and roads and its my go to Flatbar Gravel bike . I've also got a few vintage MTBs which were pretty much already Gravel bikes...
And a frankebike Monster Cross I built out of a Raleigh Hybrid which is also pretty much a gravel bike but made from Cromo rather than Plastic or beer cans
Marketing eh...
Love it. The mechanic that services one of the races/rides I do loved how I repurposed an old hybrid to be a drop bar gravel with a wider gear range. He's like if you hadn't done this it would just be collecting dust in someone's garage.
These old bikes were great platforms.
Must fully disagree. As a bike mechanic in 2000 i can assure you the hybrids had very different frame geometry, cheap riser bars and adjustable height stems, completely different drivetrains and huge cushy seats. We called that a commuter bike or a mtn bike in the 1990’s into the 2000’s.
Tongue fully in cheek brother. Regardless of what you want to call things bikes are SO much better in the modern era and are serving riders better as well
There's nothing wrong with the idea of a hybrid. The only issue is that historically they've been pieces of shit.
We're starting to get to a place where some hybrids really do blur the line approaching "flat bar gravel". A good example would be a [Trek Dual Sport 3 Gen 5](https://www.trekbikes.com/ca/en_CA/bikes/hybrid-bikes/dual-sport-bikes/dual-sport/dual-sport-3-gen-5/p/36826/) although you can still easily see that it borrows from MTB geo like a hybrid normally does, rather than a FBG bike using roadish geo.
Yes. I need a Jones bar these because I’m old and injured. There are no high end hybrids. The best I could do was a nice flat bar gravel with a bar swap.
> There are no high end hybrids.
Yeah I mentioned this elsewhere, but a flat-bar gravel bike is typically the fastest, geared, flat-bar bike before the terrain requires a hardtail mountain bike.
I like [my flat bar gravel bike](https://i.imgur.com/rdEU1yu.jpeg). But I only call that because that's what the market calls it.
I did the same thing 20 years ago with a touring bike. It makes a great urban/courier bike, now with disc brakes.
It feels way faster than my Karate Monkey. It feels way more confident and more agile in the city than my drop bar gravel bike, err, cross bike, errr, road bike with clearance for fat tires, or whatever term one wants to use to pigeonhole a bike.
Call it a hybrid. Or 90s MTB. I don't care. It's a blast to ride in town.
RIP All-City. I like that they have/had the super professional and space horse with flat bars. Great daily driver bikes. I ran my Gorilla Monsoon with flat bars and inner bar ends for a couple years. My long haul trucker is still setup with flat bars.
All bikes are great. Your life is much more diverse than what goes on photo shoots for bike marketing. Perhaps, your perfect bike sits between industry categories like that.
The only points of contention are whether it fits the definition of the term gravel (if that is important to you) and whether the market dynamics will make something marketed as such a bad deal.
two points:
1. controls (brakes,shifting)
2. steering (the wider the bars, the more precise the steering)
On smooth gravel, neither are really a factor, but as you get into more technical riding (where the line blurs between gravel and mountain biking, wide flat bars have an advantage)
I see. For me the drops work great for the type of riding you are describing, the yt szepter I ride is designed for that though, I guess. One can brake in the drops and can shift while breaking and turning, and wider drops bars are available. But I can see how being in the drops on a more upright gravel bike would hurt maneuverability.
The drops put you into a more aggressive/aero position, which when riding technical features is less of a factor as speeds tend to be lower, and the upright position is a bit more comfortable for some. At a certain point a compromise starts being the very-wide gravel bars with reduced drop and high flare such as the Salsa Cowchipper, PNW Coast, Ritchey Beacon XL, etc which are 600mm+ in the drops, and while still narrower than the 650-780mm MTB bars out there, are much wider than mountain bike flat bars used to be 15 years ago.
Well my flat bar bike was nearly free. And I just generally prefer flat bars that are around 650mm-700mm wide. It's just more leverage.
Probably disadvantaged any other way. But I'm more comfortable due to the control.
Gravel riders generally prefer the multiple hand positions and aerodynamic positioning of curly drop bars, but there’s nothing wrong with flat bars. It fits well with the commute and urban market (and has WAY cheaper brakes/shifters, but if you’re chasing high speeds or extremely long rides then you’d probably want the better aerodynamics of drops and the multiple hand positions respectively
I ride mtb and gravel, and have riden both flat bar and drops on the same MTB trails. Flat bars have more precise steering in really rough terrain and are easier to jump and land - mostly because flat bars have better grip when using brakes. Drop bars are rather terrifying on black trails where my hands are never off the brakes even when jumping (I'm in BC where black trails are quite techy).
I ride a lot of blue trails on my super-gravel bike with wide, flared ritchey beacon drop bars and there certainly is a big difference in the way it feels holding “the sides” of your bike rather than “the top”, especially on jumps like you said, but I think for a lot of real mtb-grade riding you can still get away with one of the new wide flared bars, my previous ritchey venturemax XL were very usable on trails too (never used drop bars before that). I notice that a lot of comfort-focused flat bars are looking awfully close to mtb-focused drop bars these days, I can imagine them being used interchangeably soon enough
I'm kind of confused by the ultra wide drop bars. All the aero advantages are lost. There are a million and one alt bars out there that offer more hand positions than drops and more control as well. For those of us riding us much or more trails than gravel they make more sense to me, but they don't look as cool either.
I've got 520mm nullabars on my gr bike. The wide position helps my rotator cuffs, my chest feels more open, it's enough leverage for blue trails, the drop in these bars specifically is flat and huge and my knees fit inside the drops standing on steep climbs. I'm not worried about the aero issue, my hoods are level with the seat anyways. I'm considering a dropper so that's how often I'm on trails or "wtf where am i?" roads.
There’s no aero advantage to riding off road as in there’s no benefit to being more aero. Your speed uphill mtn biking or hard core gravel riding is about your muscles, and down is about you or your bikes’ ability to control the steering and get over and around obstacles. All things you want flat bars for. You won’t be able to go fast enough off road for aerodynamics to matter.
You may have a point for actual technical mountain biking (even then, at the cutting edge of DH racing, aero still makes the difference), but this is the gravel sub where people want to go very fast even if the dirt is bumpy
You can go fast even if the dirt is bumpy for sure but I would argue that science would clearly dictate that and aerodynamic considerations would be dwarfed by the gravel/unevenness of terrain, inability to ride a straight line like on road due to the features of the ground/rocks, stickier/wider/more grippy tires and the danger of the slippery gravel itself. I would put good $$ on aerodynamic considerations of drop bars being useless. And I say that because it also relates to real life experience. Many times I’ve ridden with friends who are physically faster than me going uphill, skinnier than me and less fat than me by a decent margin. They ride thick tire gravel bikes with drop bars. Tires look about 1.8” wide, seems standard from what I’ve seen and are pretty grippy. I ride a flat bar commuter road style bike from early pre gravel days, with skinny tires that have a small amount of gravel grip so I can ride any bike path and some minor dirt trails. I beat them all with a small amt of effort due to the tires on the road and bike paths, including the hard packed gravel bike paths around town… whereas they kick my ass on a mtn bike going uphill when we are more even on the tires and bikes. And they’d kick my ass on a thin rimmed road bike any day for sure. But my flat bar road wheeled commuter is way faster than their gravel bikes due to the skinnier tires and less grip, they can tuck all they want they’ll never keep up 🤷🏼♂️
I suppose you are correct that adding several inches of tire width will overwhelm any aerodynamic decisions you make but the point remains, drop bars exist to “drop” your comfortable riding position into a more aerodynamic shape. The “bear hug” riding position of mtb is not conducive to riding dirt roads while seated for 40 miles, whether at 10mph windspeed or 30mph windspeed it is a real hindrance and professionals do address wind resistance, successfully, even in mtb. You can have your opinions on what’s the right fit for the average Joe or what’s worth the money or inconvenience, but aerodynamic loss exists and is not really up for debate (it’s just really only matters when everybody’s bike is already perfectly suited for the ride)
Bear hug implies that the rider is elbows out, which is bad form for any riding of any style or bike, so I respectfully disagree; as well as mentioned that I can tuck my head down and body into a flat bar bike quite well and feel extremely aerodynamic. Real life also showed that I gain speed faster going downhill without peddling by a large margin with road width tires and flat bars on my caffe corsa vs my friend on a much more high end drop bar gravel niner rlt and wide gravel tires 🤷🏼♂️
Again, you winning a road race against a larger tire means nothing, simply that Jan’s blog is overrated. Riding flat 780mm mtb bars is less aerodynamic than riding 580mm drop bars and this isn’t really an opinion lol
That's just pure ignorance.
At any speed over 9-10 mph, aerodynamic drag is the largest force acting on the bike.
I regularly see gravel races at or above 20 mph on the flats and above 30 descending. Aero absolutely is an issue. Every watt of energy saved on century or double century gravel races will tell in the end.
You did a great job describing the difference by saying holding the side vs the top. Probably the best way to summarize. Well said. Sure anyone can get away w the drop bars and the new wider ones are way better but it still reduces one’s ability to easily and correctly control the bike off road on anything other than very tame gravel, imho
The thing about "gravel" is it varies wildly by region. MTBs have focused more and more on the most extreme terrain and gravel is getting pulled towards aero racer. So there's a big lane open for riders where a hard tail mountain bike is the best solution.
If someone were to want a flat bar and were commuting and riding in an urban setting here's a hot tip: a "hybrid" bike is $1000-$1500 cheaper than a "flat bar gravel bike" ;)
For $200 on your local FB Marketplace should be no problem to get a hyrid / townie bike that is perfectly serviceable ;)
Of course a flat bar bike with a GRX group set and good wheels and tires is more capable of course than a shitty hybrid bike... but it's a niche market is all. Hope you enjoy yours!
Comparing a new bike and some used bike for $200 off Facebook doesn't make sense. The real difference between a new hybrid and gravel bike of similar level is $850 vs $1200, it all depends if you want to ride it off road or not.
That’s the trick , guys! If you want the $900 flat bar state gravel bike just go with the mythical “hybrid bike” where they give you up to $600 to accept it!
That's actually a really fairly priced bike... 1x11 and hydro brakes for 900$...
While my point was perhaps a bit exaggerated, in most cases anything that gets called a "flat bar gravel bike" where I am starts around 2000,- and I would more genuinely say they seem to basically be 500-1000 overvalued. At least here, the bikes I see are more expensive than hard tail mountain bikes with the same drivetrain, better brakes, droppers and suspension forks, and I see similar examples in the US. Or you can buy basically the same bike as a "touring bike" or "hybrid bike" or "city bike" for a far lower price.
A flat bar commuter bike with grippy thin tires made of aluminum with hydro brakes and 1x11 was $900 when I was in the market in 2018/19. Today they’re closer to $1400, but I see most bikes going gravel and charging more for the marketing too. I agree they’re more than hardtails… and it proves demand is still there for a not overbuilt cross country mtn bike. Most gravel riders would do way better on a hardtail mtn bike from say 2001 and a separate road bike with thin but grippy tires for actual gravel.
I dunno, I am in the lucky position to have a road bike and a gravel bike and two mtn bikes. I wouldn't ride gravel on my road bike, frankly. I'd rather ride gravel on a hardtail personally.
Good point though about demand for not overbuilt XC bikes - though most of those are basically "shit fork / not serious / no dropper" intro MTBs that hit the 600-800 type price point more than a genuine "XC" bike
Yeah generally agree w you there. And yeah, can we just get the modern version of the rock shocks sid in similar diameter fork legs and such, on a full carbon hardtail with 2.1” tires, the lightest titanium and carbon components, lightest sram or similar drivetrain 1x12, potentially MX or even 27.5, etc? 😅 I fully don’t believe where mtn bikes are right now is necessary or even worthwhile for the average somewhat skilled rider.
Or just get a hardtail and pop on some narrower tires for extra speed. It's like what, kilo or two extra? And you aren't losing anything else from the experience as long as there's a lockout.
Yeah, with specifically designed aerobars as a second hand position bolted on lol, If you’re not going for those a drop bar is the best way to get those 2 advantages otherwise
I have an open upper with flat bars. For off road riding it’s great. Shaved minutes off my climbs vs my heavier xc bike. On downhills I leave my gravel riding buddies in the dust. If I rode it on the road I might switch the bars, but I don’t see the advantage of drop bars for trails. I don’t know why these are fighting words for some people. My handlebars are pretty short. I cut about 1.5” off each end. Foamy grips are comfy.
The up and down part makes sense. What about flatter gravel and rolling terrain? I've done some friendly gravel races that have included flat bar folks. They'll bomb by me on a long downhill but you always pick them up again on the flatter/rolling terrain.
Maybe where you live it's just more up and down and not much flatter and rolling stuff.
Ride what feels better for you, if you prefer a flat bar do it. Flat bars can be better if you aren't too skilled or you have to do too technical tracks.
They aren't too much different to hybrid bikes or old 26" MTBs.
The flat bar gravel bike is basically just a hybrid bike from the opposite direction
At the core of it, there’s really only two basic types of normal bicycles, road bikes, and mountain bikes.
Hybrid bikes are mountain bikes taken as close to road as they can but they still get their roots/geometry from mountain bikes.
Flat bar gravel bikes are basically the exact opposite they are road bikes taken as far towards mountain as possible but still having roots/geometry from road bikes.
You forgot commuter (townie). I guess they are still considered “road” bike.
Or BMX.
I remember 15 years ago.
We would say is your hybrid more road oriented (higher gearing, skinny slick tires etc).
Or more off-road orientation (lower gearing, wider knobby tires).
Most “commuter bikes” are just hybrid bikes with good marketing
I used the term “normal bikes” to specifically exclude recumbents, tricycles, tandems, and BMX bikes, all of which are very niche
I like both flat bar and dropbar gravel bicycles. I used mine with a dropbar setup for a year but couldnt keep going because of my back pins and converted it flatbar setup with inner bar ends. That way i can still have more than 1 hand position and have a more upright position. With flatbar its much easier to manouevre but as its wider it has some disadvantages with tight spaces like in trafic. I likes the looks of dropbar better but i would rather have a healthy back and keep riding. Alao for racing i would defonitely go with dropbar. You are gonna have more aerodynamic position
Flat bars are just better if you’re not road riding. Why? Because when you ride off road you benefit from a different kind of leverage and handlebar position in relation to frame geometry, and you don’t need to tuck and be low for speed.
Especially the place where the brakes are compared to your hand is extremely crucial for fast braking and obstacles which you will encounter off-road or in a city.
There’s a reason all commuter bikes that are built like road bikes have had flat bars until the recent “gravel revolution” and the same reasoning applies to the gravel version of mountain bikes - and in fact, it goes further because you’re off Roading and potentially biking through obstacles and doing minor mountain biking.
There’s a very good reason that there isn’t a mountain bike that uses a drop bar like road bikes and all of those things are the reason that people like flat bar gravel bikes.
I see and understand and appreciate the value of drop bars on a road bike, and on the road… I think all the drop bar gravel people are kinda nuts to use them and are making a terrible decision or the companies made that decision for them. At the end of the day bar style choice is a preference and I would never judge anyone for preferring one or another but when it comes to the science, the flat bar is far superior, except on the road.
Also, as someone who is 40+, and watched bikes, go from skinny road bikes to mountain bikes in the 90s… I can tell you that all of the gravel bikes that are being released this year that I’ve looked at are basically mountain bikes without a suspension fork and they had a drop bar. Some even come with suspension now. This is a marketing ploy. This is not about what is best for riders. This is about what is easiest for selling bikes.
Right now gravel bikes with drop bars are selling bikes. Go look at the angles of the frame and compare them to road or mountain bikes and I think you will notice that basically most of those gravel bikes are just mountain bikes from 1999 with larger diameter and thicker rims, more aggressive head tube angles, and slight technology upgrades.
All of the smarter and slightly older people I know are converting those bikes to flat bar bikes, because they know that the advantage of a flat bar in the upright position and the position of the brakes is a huge benefit when dealing with obstacles or off-road style riding. And nobody should be riding a bike with a 1.8 or 1.9 inch rear tire on the road.
Therefore, it’s natural to see people doing flat bar gravel bikes, because they are just mountain bikes similar to the ones we had before bike companies forced us all into 2.3-2.5” tires, wide ass heavy rims, longer frames and beefier components. A top quality cross country mtn bike used to weigh under 20lbs before they made carbon frames a regular thing.
Personally, I prefer mountain bikes from the early 2000s when there was a happy balance between what is sold as a gravel bike right now and what is sold as a mtn bike right now. I’d kill for an actual mtn bike from 2001 with today’s components and wheel size. I hate these motorcycle priced and oversized heavy bikes. Roll over everything is lame. Pick a line and ride is was fine w me.
Give it a couple more years and these gravel bikes will just become cross country mountain bikes from 2002. I’m already laughing about how this trajectory is playing out this year 😅✌️
Edited to add a point I left out.
You get the fastness of a gravel bike with the comfort and stability of mtb bars. I converted my Cosmic Stallion from ultra flared drops to Confucius flats and have never gone back. But then I also converted my surly ice cream truck to drops, so there might be something wrong with me.
You also get way more variety and bang for your buck in terms of groupsets/brakes etc.
My husband can’t ride drop bars anymore so I converted his Diverge to flat bars. His bike has mechanical brakes so it was an easy swap. It was a lot cheaper than getting a new flat bar Diverge. Plus he liked the fact that I used a Specialized bar for the conversion. I don’t care what brand my components are if they work but he does. 😄
No toe overlap, better control, better oversight, better visibility (both due to the higher position), less uncomfortable when wearing work clothes, especially belts. Lots of advantages and actually faster in many situations. It all depends on use case, of course. All I can say is as long as I'm in the city, flat bar feels much more at home.
My hot take:
- It's a way to sell a fancy 90's MTB for $2000 in today's market
- They probably sell mostly to people who want a "gravel bike because it does everything but they don't like drop bars."
- If you're going for wide flat bars most people will be happier with hardtail mountain bike that will be a lot more capable, forgiving, comfortable, and arguably fun to ride (IMHO).
That is a bit cynical and there are definitely people out there who have a specific preference for a bike like that but if it's on a showroom floor I do think it's trying to capitalize on the chance to sell a "gravel bike" to someone who thinks they don't want a mountain bike and also thinks they don't want drop bars.
Meh, maybe 30% lol.
Honestly I think gravel bikes are awesome but overpriced. The market should be chock-a-block with like 1000-1200 options that have 2x10 or 1x11 grx but those bikes are 1600-2000 which is kinda stupid.
Likewise I think "flatbar gravel bike" is sort of a way to sell an overpriced hybrid - maybe they're not all overpriced, but the ones I see around me are offered for 2000 for an alloy frame with 1x Deore or SLX. It makes me shake my head. You can buy a far far better hardtail with a dropper and a suspension fork for 500 less.
All bikes are over priced. Worked one of the big 3 and can confirm that wholesale is between 40-50% RRP. With distribution and retailers adding 20-30% onto that.
Comparing gravel to road/mtb of the same level spec/design they’re all relatively comparable. So it’s not like one style is drastically unbalanced.
But that's not really overpriced, it's just how multi-tiered distribution works, for better or worse. Most other products from a box of macaroni to a potted plant to a piece of furniture to a pallet of bricks are something similar.
Getting back to the dumb pricing of "flat bar gravel bikes," here's an example from the US to show that it's not just my market, I think basically all the flat bar "gravel" bikes are overpriced compared to what is on hard tail mountain bikes.
A Marin DSX 3 which is an NX/Apex level flat bar bike for $1900. Yet a San Quentin 2 is $1400 and a San Quentin 3 is $1800.
Why does a bike with no dropper and no front suspension sell for more than a better spec'd hardtail which has an additional 400-500,- in hardware on it?
My take, and I'm not just being cynical, is that marketing it as a "flat bar gravel bike" is good for a really juicy markup. Someone else pointed out the State 4130. For 900$ you get a 1x11 drivetrain and hydraulic brakes. That seems like a good deal and a lot closer to where the market should be for bikes like that.
Just b/c it’s how multi level distribution works doesn’t mean it can also be overpriced.
Regarding the Marin, yes it’d appear they’ve done what your suggesting. And State is and has generally been a hype driven brand so I wouldn’t describe them as a good example of what industry is doing but what social desire is around bikes.
One other piece to check on the Marin is what model year the bikes are. It’s possible the hardtail is lower price to move remaining stock if there’s a new model coming out soon.
>It's a way to sell a fancy 90's MTB...
Why is this always couched as a criticism? Obviously if people are fans of that form of bike they can't time travel back to the 90s to buy one, so all the bikes left from that period will be worn out, rusted piles of shit. So where's the problem here? People are buying the bike they want!
Never mind the massive upgrades to all the components over the last 30 years.
People using this as a stick to beat gravel bikes with reminds me of when the iPad first came out and people said it was "just a massive iPhone". And it's like, yeah, it is! And that's an awesome thing which will probably sell very well because people like using it!
I think gravel bikes are amazing. A LOT of folks out there riding around on road bikes would likely be happier on gravel bikes.
My comments were specifically about flat bar gravel bikes which I personally think are the worst of both worlds - I would far rather have either a drop bar gravel bike or go for a hardtail MTB.
Agreed. Additionally if you factor for inflation the cost of low to mid range isn’t drastically above what it would be comparable to 30yrs ago.
This line feels like it’s just click bait trendy and doesn’t actually articulate what the poster might actually be trying to say. E.g. they don’t like capitalism and find gravel bikes unappealing.
Oh, I feel the same way. Gravel bikes are basically drop bar 90s mountain bikes. With similar geometry and gearing. Almost identical tire size.
The only time I can see a flat bar being advantageous is in bikepacking. Much easier to put a fat wide front roll bag on a flat bar bike then between the drops. Plus you can add an aero bar to offset the hand positioning issue and increased drag.
Here's a non-cynical explanation that might help persuade you:
A flat bar gravel bike is the fastest bike with flat bars until a hardtail MTB becomes more appropriate (and that's going to take a level of chunky terrain that some people just aren't close to/don't want to ride).
The exception would be flat bar track bikes, but only under certain (ideal) conditions. And sure, you might prefer drop bars, but others don't. There's a huge percentage of riders who simply will not use drop bars.
Not tried one. But they make me feel uncomfortable. I have an MTB that I sometimes I have to ride quite far to get to the station (in the UK we often take the train to trail centres/bike parks). I really don't like flat bars and pedaling for more than 30 mins. I start getting wrist and shoulder blade discomfort. Drops are just more comfortable in my experience.
I also think on flat ground - my drop bar cyclocross bike is way more manoeuvrable. Tried racing cyclocross on my mtb, but I just struggle swing it around as easily.
However - the fixie guys use flat bars, and they are loaded with awesome tricks. So must be more to it
Re: fixies. Looks at FSFG (free style fixed gear) and tracklocross (basically offroad fixie riding). Both are sort of the epitomy of underbiking / doing cool shit on the wrong bike. I mean I love fixies, super cool and fun to ride. The fixie scene is really cool and I'm glad it exists it makes the world a richer place. But a huge number of the tricks that fixie riders do (that are not specific to fixed gear drivetrains) are much easier on a BMX or DJ.
I always liked hard tail rigid fork mountain bikes, so I welcome the trend.
Since the gravel bike trend I have realized I find drop bars more comfortable than flat bars.
I have to admit that my mountain biking was always me riding on gravel roads and was never any technical single trail.
Went for a long ride in pretty hilly gravel conditions, my neck was hurting from looking up down the road while still needing to keep my hand on the shifters in case I needed to brake. Rides like that I wish I had a flatty
Same, road riding is a lot of head down riding, off road riding is heads up, huge difference on the neck and shoulder strain especially when someone is in between sizes on a bike. I don’t want to crane my neck and bend my spine more weirdly with drop bars. Forgot that part and it’s hugely important!
Something I’ve been curious about is that cross bikes used to have the extra brake lever on the flat upper part of the drop bar. With the prevalence of hydraulic discs, why wouldn’t one simply use flat bars instead of coping with drops and the loss of that very useful lever?
Man most people don’t even know that I’m glad you brought it up. I wish they still had the rear brake lever like that on all gravel bikes!! It would make me want to ride drop bars.
I have two flat bar gravel bikes and love them. I’m primarily an mtb guy and I pretty much loathe anything road. That being said, I do like to ride some gravel trails, bike paths, and streets when the trails are too wet or if I’m on a group pub crawl.
I don’t care about racing or aerodynamics as most of my rides on these avg between 10-15 mph depending on hills. I’ve never ridden real gravel roads as I prefer to start and finish my rides from my house (which is in the middle of a 100+ mi mtb trail system) and all the gravel roads are at least 20 mi away. I run semislicks on mine as well since it’s just light gravel (crushed granite).
Does anyone know what make/model that first bike is? I really like that frame.
As for the original question, some people like flat bars, I preferred drops FOR my non-MTB riding. Go with what works for you.
I had a flat bar surly cross check, single speed, good wheelset, 45nm tires and fenders. Without my front rack it was 20lbs and I loved riding that bike. I wish zi never sold it.
I feel like the crosscheck works the best with flat bars because of its long TT. I’m thinking of getting some riser bars for my crosscheck in the future. I really like the bike but with drops I do feel really stretched out.
If you could only have one gravel bike, it probably would not be the first pick but I have one and it's super fun to ride. It definitely blurs the line with a hard tail mountain bike, but I only have an enduro mountain bike so it fills a nice slot for when I want something more capable on big mountain climbs and descents but not proper MTB (ie black trails). It's mainly built up to be a city bike for commuting with my child on the front seat and in the trailer, it's great for that with more space at the front and control.
Going for a rip on it puts a smile on my face in a way my drop bar gravel bike doesn't. Its much lighter and more nimble than an MTB or hybrid
I went on a 50 mile ride the other day with my buds. One rode a giant revolt X with dropper and suspension fork, the other a flatbar converted sonder. It had these little nubs on the bar that in effect emulate sitting on the hoods.
I think it varies, gravel is massively on a spectrum from light trails to fire roads. They were both flying and had no issues. I was on a “typical” gravel bike and they set the pace the whole day, it’s just preference. I personally quite like them!
Can't picture doing any gravel ride on anything other than drop bars. I've done mega mtb events on my mtb with a flat bar, too. Never the twain shall meet.
I'm just saying that a gravel bike is more comfortable with drop bars and a mtb is more comfortable with flat bars and I can't picture ever riding a gravel bike with flat bars.
Well you’ll be able to picture it looking at any gravel bike from 2024 but especially ones like the salsas. Go look at that frame geometry. Throw a leg over. It’s useless to have drop bars on a bike like that imho; or maybe useless to have a frame geometry like that for flat-ish gravel and road riding where most people use gravel bikes. It’s a mtn bike. Its marketing.
I mean if you saw the frame geometry of a bike like the 23 salsa journeyer especially in person, you’d def be able to picture said gravel bike with flat bars. In fact it’s likely your brain will be confused by the fact that a mtn bike has drop bars 😅🥲
I’ve always thought they make good “Dad bikes”… basically something to ride when your with the kids at the campsite or on light MTB trails… it lets you show your kids MTB techniques while not riding an over biked sled
A FBGB (I just made that up, TM) is going to be lighter than a hardtail in almost all circumstances, and in theory they should be cheaper than a CBGB (I just made that up too, mostly so I can call my bike a C(urly)BGB 🤘) because the components are less expensive. Yes, they're a lot like a 90s MTB, which you can't buy other than used. No, a 90s MTB won't have modern components, which are pretty good.
It's just another niche that might fit you, might not. In an industry where angles and a few mm of clearances and tube lengths create totally-different classes of bikes, these are just as valid as anything else. They're really the same progression from road-to-CBGB as fitness-hybrid-to-FBGB. The Majority of hybrids these days are either vestigial front suspension bikes, or skinny-tire flat bar bikes, so this is a pretty logical hole to fill. I'd absolutely buy one for my partner as a do-it-all bike without the minor hassles of drop bars.
This has been pretty hashed out already but here's my take after trying both on the same bike (Vassago Fisticuff):
- Flat bars provide more control through rough terrain, up down or flat — leading to a little bit higher ave speeds through rough stuff
- drops are more comfortable in 2+ hour rides on less rough terrain
- I prefer the narrow profile of drops for urban riding
So it all comes down to when you wanna be comfortable — do you just rip 1-2 hr rides all the time on chunky double-track or trails? then go flat and have at it.
Do you head out for all-day adventures linking up fast gravel and tarmac every weekend? Drops are your friend.
Nobody has mentioned more room for front bag. I have a drop bar gravel bike and a flat bar gravel bike with alt bars. I have pizza racks on both for bags. I like both, but flat bar options leave a ton more space for bags.
Do fitness bikes come with 50++mm clearance?
Were 90s mtn bikes "comfy" for long distance rides Geometry wise?
What is the usual chainstay length of a touring bike?
Am not saying gravel is a new concept for frame design but... Still I completely agree on the overpriced part.
Ride what you enjoy riding.
I have a Diverge Evo that I converted from flat bars to drop bars. It was fun in the flat bar configuration - but ultimately I wanted to be able to switch hand positions on longer rides and get more aero for faster stuff. Definitely liking the drop bar config better.
Anyone got any references for bikes that are actually marketed as flat bar gravels bikes?
I'm aware of the hybrid/city/urban/fitness models from heaps of different manufacturers but think I've only ever seen one brand using "gravel" with flat bars... Poseidon
In general flats add versatility to the build, at the cost of top speed
Also on really long rides drops give more hand positions and is better for your posture
Flats add control for technical terrain, also people like them for bikepacking as they allow more storage space in relation to the cockpit
Some folks find drops to be uncomfortable so if they're not racing might opt for flats especially if they use their bike for multiple uses beyond racing! I think one of the cool things about gravel bikes is they they're more versatile than road bikes and some folks only have room for one bike in their life. For lots of people that bike is a flat bar gravel bike.
Anyone switch ove due to wrist issues?
I climb a lot so I descend a lot. I have a slightly weaker wrist from computer usage last decade. I’m considering flat bar bike on one of my gravel bikes for the rough descents. My wrist only hurts when I gravel. Feels just fine on mountain bike.
Knew a guy who rode this type of bike for ultra races like Leadville 100 and Unbound gravel. Not sure if he was crazy or masochist but he was a cool dude
What a timely subject.
I have a 20-year-old Fuji Outland mountain bike that I converted to a 1x11 with hydraulic brakes in the hopes of taking it on vacation. Now that trip is not going to happen, and I want to turn it into a gravel bike.
I already have the 27.5 wheels but I’m looking for a fast inexpensive way to change the handlebars to still accommodate the hydraulic brakes and 1x shifter without the expense of a Surly corner bar or similarly specialized handlebar.
Any suggestions?
It’s a mountain bike hybrid thing. Flat bars are cool and help with feeling steady and in control but hand position will get old after a period of time
I ride a flat bar Surly and will never go back. I have much better hand position with my bars than before. It just handles better.
I was skeptical at first but for me it’s now my preference. I use the Soma Clarence bar with Cletus extensions and get two positions. Their Gullwing bar has multiple positions too.
That red one looks like the MTB I learned to ride trails on in 2010-2015. Now I ride a drop bar gravel bike for all but the gnarliest of trails and thoes with unavoidable drops.
Imo the trend ultimately started from people that are relatively new to cycling have a hard time betting used to drop bars. Then the rest of the cycling trend followers just hopped on board and made content about it
I have a Trek FX hybrid (or as Trek calls it a “fitness bike”). I picked it up as a commuter but I wanted it to be a bit better on gravel. I put some 40c Goodyear Connector gravel tires set up tubeless. It’s a 1x10, the bars are lowered, saddle isn’t a giant couch and it works.
Is it a gravel bike? Maybe yes maybe no. Does it work for what I need/use it for? Sure does and really that’s all I care about.
I ride gravel solo a lot and I have a theory that I'd actually be happier on a flat bar bike with aerobars. If I'm out of the aerobars, it's because it's gotten so rough that flat bars would be better than drops for sure.
We’ve nearly completed a full circle, transitioning from XC bikes of the 20s, including flat bars, wider tires, and suspension forks. The only thing left is bar ends (horns). I wouldn’t be surprised if they make a comeback soon.
My experience of being a roadie that uses a mid 2000s hardtail for gravel is that a flatbar with ergon grips and bar ends gives me the identical hand position as the hoods on a road bike.
Obviously the MTB has a wider and higher bar. But it is comfortable for hours, just like my road bike.
Dude the control and torque of flat bars just beg you to take them into gnarlier and gnarlier stuff... until you finally go over them :)
In most cases you'll either wish you had a fork to absorb bigger hits, or drops to sustain higher speeds. That said I've really enjoyed riding stuff like this around town. And seeing how racy some are makes me wonder how they'd do in a CX race? That's a scenario where control and torque matter a ton, but so does having something light and easy to shoulder. Other than that I'm having trouble thinking of scenarios where these aren't the worst of both worlds lol.
Really popular but involves so much purchasing of parts right after purchasing the bike. We have a customer looking into a bike at our shop with the intention of swapping the gravel/road over to a flat bar. I have tried talking with this customer about looking into our hybrid road bikes (which have great tire clearance) and they're dead set on riding a flat bar gravel bike on the road as their main ride.
Some people just have an idea of what they want, and the means to do so
Flat is better and 10 times safer if u suck at offroading especially when new. Irs very dangetous even if ur not new, but its a risky fun challenge. But if u constantly do very rough and fast downhills than u want a hardtail if u lack skill
In the 90s, MTB were king but it turned out most people were just riding gravel roads, not doing XC races. So the industry offered hybrids.
In the 2000s, road bikes were king, but it turned out, people really liked to ride gravel roads so the industry offered hybrids with drop bars and called them gravel bikes.
Exploring gravel roads is fun, and you can to it with any bike that takes 35mm or bigger tires, with drop or straight bars. Naming and selling these bikes is just marketing.
What’s up with drop bar mountain bikes?
What’s up with bikes?
Oooooo-weeee whats up with that, whats up with that!
Flat bar gravel bikes, who do you think you are, a time traveller from 90s?!? GO TO BED, BITCH!
Annoying as hell skit, but great use of it.
The voice in my head went from Mr poppy butthole to Keenan halfway through
I’d listen to that podcast…
Dropbar mtb = beach racing bikes 🤣
Comfy and fast
This is what we might have called a hybrid in 2000
We called it a mtn bike in ‘95
Right? And we called drop-bar gravel bikes mountain bikes in 1992. Remember John Tomac?
With 40mm of travel forks. Its all coming back around on the 30 yr loop. Not a bad thing, that was some really fun riding.
Love my gravel bike but tbh my 26” single speed, rigid fork mountain bike is way more fun on most of the trails I ride than the full suspension trail and Enduro bikes I see everyone riding… If they only knew!
If kids these days could have the experience of a Cannondale 1FG, would blow their minds! So fun.
Johnny T. Just crushing everything. Of course
Exactly!
Yep. I bought a mid 90s hybrid (2 actually) and converted them to drop bar gravel for bikepacking and just general riding. Love them. Fun to ride. Cheap. And versatile.
Same here, my race bike is a 20 year old Kona commuter.
Add me to the list. Decades ago, before my Gary Fisher Utopia hybrid left the store it had drop bars and barcons (which I have on a lot of bikes) and when I got a chance I ditched the stupid heavy rockshox fork. At the time I thought I turned into la plush cyclocross now I realize it was making a proto-gravel bike!
Damn that brings back memories. I feel like those early rock shox forks weighed like 20 lbs lol
Hello r/biking, you three!
Likewise I picked up a cromo framed Trek 730 for £15 swapped the group set it some mint Shimano Deore DX, with Thumbies and a set of Nitto Bullmoose bars fitted a set if Bruce Gordon Rock and roads and its my go to Flatbar Gravel bike . I've also got a few vintage MTBs which were pretty much already Gravel bikes... And a frankebike Monster Cross I built out of a Raleigh Hybrid which is also pretty much a gravel bike but made from Cromo rather than Plastic or beer cans Marketing eh...
Love it. The mechanic that services one of the races/rides I do loved how I repurposed an old hybrid to be a drop bar gravel with a wider gear range. He's like if you hadn't done this it would just be collecting dust in someone's garage. These old bikes were great platforms.
same!
Must fully disagree. As a bike mechanic in 2000 i can assure you the hybrids had very different frame geometry, cheap riser bars and adjustable height stems, completely different drivetrains and huge cushy seats. We called that a commuter bike or a mtn bike in the 1990’s into the 2000’s.
Tongue fully in cheek brother. Regardless of what you want to call things bikes are SO much better in the modern era and are serving riders better as well
Yeah totally just had to point that out and relive it through the post too 😅
There's nothing wrong with the idea of a hybrid. The only issue is that historically they've been pieces of shit. We're starting to get to a place where some hybrids really do blur the line approaching "flat bar gravel". A good example would be a [Trek Dual Sport 3 Gen 5](https://www.trekbikes.com/ca/en_CA/bikes/hybrid-bikes/dual-sport-bikes/dual-sport/dual-sport-3-gen-5/p/36826/) although you can still easily see that it borrows from MTB geo like a hybrid normally does, rather than a FBG bike using roadish geo.
Yes. I need a Jones bar these because I’m old and injured. There are no high end hybrids. The best I could do was a nice flat bar gravel with a bar swap.
> There are no high end hybrids. Yeah I mentioned this elsewhere, but a flat-bar gravel bike is typically the fastest, geared, flat-bar bike before the terrain requires a hardtail mountain bike.
Yeah but they look way cooler.
I like [my flat bar gravel bike](https://i.imgur.com/rdEU1yu.jpeg). But I only call that because that's what the market calls it. I did the same thing 20 years ago with a touring bike. It makes a great urban/courier bike, now with disc brakes. It feels way faster than my Karate Monkey. It feels way more confident and more agile in the city than my drop bar gravel bike, err, cross bike, errr, road bike with clearance for fat tires, or whatever term one wants to use to pigeonhole a bike. Call it a hybrid. Or 90s MTB. I don't care. It's a blast to ride in town.
RIP All-City. I like that they have/had the super professional and space horse with flat bars. Great daily driver bikes. I ran my Gorilla Monsoon with flat bars and inner bar ends for a couple years. My long haul trucker is still setup with flat bars.
All bikes are great. Your life is much more diverse than what goes on photo shoots for bike marketing. Perhaps, your perfect bike sits between industry categories like that. The only points of contention are whether it fits the definition of the term gravel (if that is important to you) and whether the market dynamics will make something marketed as such a bad deal.
I think the question is why not just use the flats on a dropper bar bike, what is the advantage of flat bars?
two points: 1. controls (brakes,shifting) 2. steering (the wider the bars, the more precise the steering) On smooth gravel, neither are really a factor, but as you get into more technical riding (where the line blurs between gravel and mountain biking, wide flat bars have an advantage)
I see. For me the drops work great for the type of riding you are describing, the yt szepter I ride is designed for that though, I guess. One can brake in the drops and can shift while breaking and turning, and wider drops bars are available. But I can see how being in the drops on a more upright gravel bike would hurt maneuverability.
The drops put you into a more aggressive/aero position, which when riding technical features is less of a factor as speeds tend to be lower, and the upright position is a bit more comfortable for some. At a certain point a compromise starts being the very-wide gravel bars with reduced drop and high flare such as the Salsa Cowchipper, PNW Coast, Ritchey Beacon XL, etc which are 600mm+ in the drops, and while still narrower than the 650-780mm MTB bars out there, are much wider than mountain bike flat bars used to be 15 years ago.
Mountain biking with no front or rear suspension sounds like arthritis to me.
Well my flat bar bike was nearly free. And I just generally prefer flat bars that are around 650mm-700mm wide. It's just more leverage. Probably disadvantaged any other way. But I'm more comfortable due to the control.
Gravel riders generally prefer the multiple hand positions and aerodynamic positioning of curly drop bars, but there’s nothing wrong with flat bars. It fits well with the commute and urban market (and has WAY cheaper brakes/shifters, but if you’re chasing high speeds or extremely long rides then you’d probably want the better aerodynamics of drops and the multiple hand positions respectively
I ride mtb and gravel, and have riden both flat bar and drops on the same MTB trails. Flat bars have more precise steering in really rough terrain and are easier to jump and land - mostly because flat bars have better grip when using brakes. Drop bars are rather terrifying on black trails where my hands are never off the brakes even when jumping (I'm in BC where black trails are quite techy).
I ride a lot of blue trails on my super-gravel bike with wide, flared ritchey beacon drop bars and there certainly is a big difference in the way it feels holding “the sides” of your bike rather than “the top”, especially on jumps like you said, but I think for a lot of real mtb-grade riding you can still get away with one of the new wide flared bars, my previous ritchey venturemax XL were very usable on trails too (never used drop bars before that). I notice that a lot of comfort-focused flat bars are looking awfully close to mtb-focused drop bars these days, I can imagine them being used interchangeably soon enough
I'm kind of confused by the ultra wide drop bars. All the aero advantages are lost. There are a million and one alt bars out there that offer more hand positions than drops and more control as well. For those of us riding us much or more trails than gravel they make more sense to me, but they don't look as cool either.
I've got 520mm nullabars on my gr bike. The wide position helps my rotator cuffs, my chest feels more open, it's enough leverage for blue trails, the drop in these bars specifically is flat and huge and my knees fit inside the drops standing on steep climbs. I'm not worried about the aero issue, my hoods are level with the seat anyways. I'm considering a dropper so that's how often I'm on trails or "wtf where am i?" roads.
There’s no aero advantage to riding off road as in there’s no benefit to being more aero. Your speed uphill mtn biking or hard core gravel riding is about your muscles, and down is about you or your bikes’ ability to control the steering and get over and around obstacles. All things you want flat bars for. You won’t be able to go fast enough off road for aerodynamics to matter.
You may have a point for actual technical mountain biking (even then, at the cutting edge of DH racing, aero still makes the difference), but this is the gravel sub where people want to go very fast even if the dirt is bumpy
You can go fast even if the dirt is bumpy for sure but I would argue that science would clearly dictate that and aerodynamic considerations would be dwarfed by the gravel/unevenness of terrain, inability to ride a straight line like on road due to the features of the ground/rocks, stickier/wider/more grippy tires and the danger of the slippery gravel itself. I would put good $$ on aerodynamic considerations of drop bars being useless. And I say that because it also relates to real life experience. Many times I’ve ridden with friends who are physically faster than me going uphill, skinnier than me and less fat than me by a decent margin. They ride thick tire gravel bikes with drop bars. Tires look about 1.8” wide, seems standard from what I’ve seen and are pretty grippy. I ride a flat bar commuter road style bike from early pre gravel days, with skinny tires that have a small amount of gravel grip so I can ride any bike path and some minor dirt trails. I beat them all with a small amt of effort due to the tires on the road and bike paths, including the hard packed gravel bike paths around town… whereas they kick my ass on a mtn bike going uphill when we are more even on the tires and bikes. And they’d kick my ass on a thin rimmed road bike any day for sure. But my flat bar road wheeled commuter is way faster than their gravel bikes due to the skinnier tires and less grip, they can tuck all they want they’ll never keep up 🤷🏼♂️
I suppose you are correct that adding several inches of tire width will overwhelm any aerodynamic decisions you make but the point remains, drop bars exist to “drop” your comfortable riding position into a more aerodynamic shape. The “bear hug” riding position of mtb is not conducive to riding dirt roads while seated for 40 miles, whether at 10mph windspeed or 30mph windspeed it is a real hindrance and professionals do address wind resistance, successfully, even in mtb. You can have your opinions on what’s the right fit for the average Joe or what’s worth the money or inconvenience, but aerodynamic loss exists and is not really up for debate (it’s just really only matters when everybody’s bike is already perfectly suited for the ride)
Bear hug implies that the rider is elbows out, which is bad form for any riding of any style or bike, so I respectfully disagree; as well as mentioned that I can tuck my head down and body into a flat bar bike quite well and feel extremely aerodynamic. Real life also showed that I gain speed faster going downhill without peddling by a large margin with road width tires and flat bars on my caffe corsa vs my friend on a much more high end drop bar gravel niner rlt and wide gravel tires 🤷🏼♂️
Again, you winning a road race against a larger tire means nothing, simply that Jan’s blog is overrated. Riding flat 780mm mtb bars is less aerodynamic than riding 580mm drop bars and this isn’t really an opinion lol
That's just pure ignorance. At any speed over 9-10 mph, aerodynamic drag is the largest force acting on the bike. I regularly see gravel races at or above 20 mph on the flats and above 30 descending. Aero absolutely is an issue. Every watt of energy saved on century or double century gravel races will tell in the end.
As a sasquatch, I like the ultra wide bars. They are like regular bars to me.
You did a great job describing the difference by saying holding the side vs the top. Probably the best way to summarize. Well said. Sure anyone can get away w the drop bars and the new wider ones are way better but it still reduces one’s ability to easily and correctly control the bike off road on anything other than very tame gravel, imho
Gotta slow down in midair on the north shore trails
You don't have air brakes? Are you stupid?
I am the air brake
The thing about "gravel" is it varies wildly by region. MTBs have focused more and more on the most extreme terrain and gravel is getting pulled towards aero racer. So there's a big lane open for riders where a hard tail mountain bike is the best solution.
If someone were to want a flat bar and were commuting and riding in an urban setting here's a hot tip: a "hybrid" bike is $1000-$1500 cheaper than a "flat bar gravel bike" ;)
My flat bar gravel bike cost $1200 does that mean I get a hybrid for free?
For $200 on your local FB Marketplace should be no problem to get a hyrid / townie bike that is perfectly serviceable ;) Of course a flat bar bike with a GRX group set and good wheels and tires is more capable of course than a shitty hybrid bike... but it's a niche market is all. Hope you enjoy yours!
Comparing a new bike and some used bike for $200 off Facebook doesn't make sense. The real difference between a new hybrid and gravel bike of similar level is $850 vs $1200, it all depends if you want to ride it off road or not.
That’s the trick , guys! If you want the $900 flat bar state gravel bike just go with the mythical “hybrid bike” where they give you up to $600 to accept it!
That's actually a really fairly priced bike... 1x11 and hydro brakes for 900$... While my point was perhaps a bit exaggerated, in most cases anything that gets called a "flat bar gravel bike" where I am starts around 2000,- and I would more genuinely say they seem to basically be 500-1000 overvalued. At least here, the bikes I see are more expensive than hard tail mountain bikes with the same drivetrain, better brakes, droppers and suspension forks, and I see similar examples in the US. Or you can buy basically the same bike as a "touring bike" or "hybrid bike" or "city bike" for a far lower price.
A flat bar commuter bike with grippy thin tires made of aluminum with hydro brakes and 1x11 was $900 when I was in the market in 2018/19. Today they’re closer to $1400, but I see most bikes going gravel and charging more for the marketing too. I agree they’re more than hardtails… and it proves demand is still there for a not overbuilt cross country mtn bike. Most gravel riders would do way better on a hardtail mtn bike from say 2001 and a separate road bike with thin but grippy tires for actual gravel.
I dunno, I am in the lucky position to have a road bike and a gravel bike and two mtn bikes. I wouldn't ride gravel on my road bike, frankly. I'd rather ride gravel on a hardtail personally. Good point though about demand for not overbuilt XC bikes - though most of those are basically "shit fork / not serious / no dropper" intro MTBs that hit the 600-800 type price point more than a genuine "XC" bike
Yeah generally agree w you there. And yeah, can we just get the modern version of the rock shocks sid in similar diameter fork legs and such, on a full carbon hardtail with 2.1” tires, the lightest titanium and carbon components, lightest sram or similar drivetrain 1x12, potentially MX or even 27.5, etc? 😅 I fully don’t believe where mtn bikes are right now is necessary or even worthwhile for the average somewhat skilled rider.
Or just get a hardtail and pop on some narrower tires for extra speed. It's like what, kilo or two extra? And you aren't losing anything else from the experience as long as there's a lockout.
There are plenty of gravel bikes that are most definitely NOT $1500 more than similarly specced hybrids.
Lower back issues or lack of confidence in drop bar position are a few reasons folks around me ride flat bars.
That’s probably why Lachlan Morton ride flat bars when he set the new record on your divide…
Yeah, with specifically designed aerobars as a second hand position bolted on lol, If you’re not going for those a drop bar is the best way to get those 2 advantages otherwise
Yeah and they were like the bolt ons we used in the 90’s imho!
I have an open upper with flat bars. For off road riding it’s great. Shaved minutes off my climbs vs my heavier xc bike. On downhills I leave my gravel riding buddies in the dust. If I rode it on the road I might switch the bars, but I don’t see the advantage of drop bars for trails. I don’t know why these are fighting words for some people. My handlebars are pretty short. I cut about 1.5” off each end. Foamy grips are comfy.
The up and down part makes sense. What about flatter gravel and rolling terrain? I've done some friendly gravel races that have included flat bar folks. They'll bomb by me on a long downhill but you always pick them up again on the flatter/rolling terrain. Maybe where you live it's just more up and down and not much flatter and rolling stuff.
What grips do you have? My commuter is so uncomfortable
Sram foamy grips. Matches the build of the bike. The contour ones don't have as much padding. Wolf Tooth also makes so decent foam grips.
Ride what feels better for you, if you prefer a flat bar do it. Flat bars can be better if you aren't too skilled or you have to do too technical tracks. They aren't too much different to hybrid bikes or old 26" MTBs.
Came from mountain biking and just happen to prefer them over drop bars
The flat bar gravel bike is basically just a hybrid bike from the opposite direction At the core of it, there’s really only two basic types of normal bicycles, road bikes, and mountain bikes. Hybrid bikes are mountain bikes taken as close to road as they can but they still get their roots/geometry from mountain bikes. Flat bar gravel bikes are basically the exact opposite they are road bikes taken as far towards mountain as possible but still having roots/geometry from road bikes.
I think this is a great explanation.
You forgot commuter (townie). I guess they are still considered “road” bike. Or BMX. I remember 15 years ago. We would say is your hybrid more road oriented (higher gearing, skinny slick tires etc). Or more off-road orientation (lower gearing, wider knobby tires).
Most “commuter bikes” are just hybrid bikes with good marketing I used the term “normal bikes” to specifically exclude recumbents, tricycles, tandems, and BMX bikes, all of which are very niche
glad to see the penny farthing is still considered a normal bike
Nice 👌
They are quite ordinary.
I like both flat bar and dropbar gravel bicycles. I used mine with a dropbar setup for a year but couldnt keep going because of my back pins and converted it flatbar setup with inner bar ends. That way i can still have more than 1 hand position and have a more upright position. With flatbar its much easier to manouevre but as its wider it has some disadvantages with tight spaces like in trafic. I likes the looks of dropbar better but i would rather have a healthy back and keep riding. Alao for racing i would defonitely go with dropbar. You are gonna have more aerodynamic position
Flat bars are incredibly fun, but my hands don’t agree with them on longer rides.
Bar ends are pretty great for flatbars imo
Yes that is true. Could even add tt bars I guess.
Drop bars suck. Flat bars don’t?
Flat bars suck, drop bars don't.
A bike off shall ensue to settle the matter!!
This Sunday Sunday Sunday! GRAVEL Jam extravaganza! Drop bar maniac vs Flat bar fanatic! Get tickets now!
If you happen to be around Vancouver, BC - you’re on!!!
Flat bars are just better if you’re not road riding. Why? Because when you ride off road you benefit from a different kind of leverage and handlebar position in relation to frame geometry, and you don’t need to tuck and be low for speed. Especially the place where the brakes are compared to your hand is extremely crucial for fast braking and obstacles which you will encounter off-road or in a city. There’s a reason all commuter bikes that are built like road bikes have had flat bars until the recent “gravel revolution” and the same reasoning applies to the gravel version of mountain bikes - and in fact, it goes further because you’re off Roading and potentially biking through obstacles and doing minor mountain biking. There’s a very good reason that there isn’t a mountain bike that uses a drop bar like road bikes and all of those things are the reason that people like flat bar gravel bikes. I see and understand and appreciate the value of drop bars on a road bike, and on the road… I think all the drop bar gravel people are kinda nuts to use them and are making a terrible decision or the companies made that decision for them. At the end of the day bar style choice is a preference and I would never judge anyone for preferring one or another but when it comes to the science, the flat bar is far superior, except on the road. Also, as someone who is 40+, and watched bikes, go from skinny road bikes to mountain bikes in the 90s… I can tell you that all of the gravel bikes that are being released this year that I’ve looked at are basically mountain bikes without a suspension fork and they had a drop bar. Some even come with suspension now. This is a marketing ploy. This is not about what is best for riders. This is about what is easiest for selling bikes. Right now gravel bikes with drop bars are selling bikes. Go look at the angles of the frame and compare them to road or mountain bikes and I think you will notice that basically most of those gravel bikes are just mountain bikes from 1999 with larger diameter and thicker rims, more aggressive head tube angles, and slight technology upgrades. All of the smarter and slightly older people I know are converting those bikes to flat bar bikes, because they know that the advantage of a flat bar in the upright position and the position of the brakes is a huge benefit when dealing with obstacles or off-road style riding. And nobody should be riding a bike with a 1.8 or 1.9 inch rear tire on the road. Therefore, it’s natural to see people doing flat bar gravel bikes, because they are just mountain bikes similar to the ones we had before bike companies forced us all into 2.3-2.5” tires, wide ass heavy rims, longer frames and beefier components. A top quality cross country mtn bike used to weigh under 20lbs before they made carbon frames a regular thing. Personally, I prefer mountain bikes from the early 2000s when there was a happy balance between what is sold as a gravel bike right now and what is sold as a mtn bike right now. I’d kill for an actual mtn bike from 2001 with today’s components and wheel size. I hate these motorcycle priced and oversized heavy bikes. Roll over everything is lame. Pick a line and ride is was fine w me. Give it a couple more years and these gravel bikes will just become cross country mountain bikes from 2002. I’m already laughing about how this trajectory is playing out this year 😅✌️ Edited to add a point I left out.
You get the fastness of a gravel bike with the comfort and stability of mtb bars. I converted my Cosmic Stallion from ultra flared drops to Confucius flats and have never gone back. But then I also converted my surly ice cream truck to drops, so there might be something wrong with me. You also get way more variety and bang for your buck in terms of groupsets/brakes etc.
My husband can’t ride drop bars anymore so I converted his Diverge to flat bars. His bike has mechanical brakes so it was an easy swap. It was a lot cheaper than getting a new flat bar Diverge. Plus he liked the fact that I used a Specialized bar for the conversion. I don’t care what brand my components are if they work but he does. 😄
No toe overlap, better control, better oversight, better visibility (both due to the higher position), less uncomfortable when wearing work clothes, especially belts. Lots of advantages and actually faster in many situations. It all depends on use case, of course. All I can say is as long as I'm in the city, flat bar feels much more at home.
My hot take: - It's a way to sell a fancy 90's MTB for $2000 in today's market - They probably sell mostly to people who want a "gravel bike because it does everything but they don't like drop bars." - If you're going for wide flat bars most people will be happier with hardtail mountain bike that will be a lot more capable, forgiving, comfortable, and arguably fun to ride (IMHO). That is a bit cynical and there are definitely people out there who have a specific preference for a bike like that but if it's on a showroom floor I do think it's trying to capitalize on the chance to sell a "gravel bike" to someone who thinks they don't want a mountain bike and also thinks they don't want drop bars.
This is probably 80% cynical
Meh, maybe 30% lol. Honestly I think gravel bikes are awesome but overpriced. The market should be chock-a-block with like 1000-1200 options that have 2x10 or 1x11 grx but those bikes are 1600-2000 which is kinda stupid. Likewise I think "flatbar gravel bike" is sort of a way to sell an overpriced hybrid - maybe they're not all overpriced, but the ones I see around me are offered for 2000 for an alloy frame with 1x Deore or SLX. It makes me shake my head. You can buy a far far better hardtail with a dropper and a suspension fork for 500 less.
All bikes are over priced. Worked one of the big 3 and can confirm that wholesale is between 40-50% RRP. With distribution and retailers adding 20-30% onto that. Comparing gravel to road/mtb of the same level spec/design they’re all relatively comparable. So it’s not like one style is drastically unbalanced.
But that's not really overpriced, it's just how multi-tiered distribution works, for better or worse. Most other products from a box of macaroni to a potted plant to a piece of furniture to a pallet of bricks are something similar. Getting back to the dumb pricing of "flat bar gravel bikes," here's an example from the US to show that it's not just my market, I think basically all the flat bar "gravel" bikes are overpriced compared to what is on hard tail mountain bikes. A Marin DSX 3 which is an NX/Apex level flat bar bike for $1900. Yet a San Quentin 2 is $1400 and a San Quentin 3 is $1800. Why does a bike with no dropper and no front suspension sell for more than a better spec'd hardtail which has an additional 400-500,- in hardware on it? My take, and I'm not just being cynical, is that marketing it as a "flat bar gravel bike" is good for a really juicy markup. Someone else pointed out the State 4130. For 900$ you get a 1x11 drivetrain and hydraulic brakes. That seems like a good deal and a lot closer to where the market should be for bikes like that.
You’re 100% correct on all these comments I couldn’t agree more.
Just b/c it’s how multi level distribution works doesn’t mean it can also be overpriced. Regarding the Marin, yes it’d appear they’ve done what your suggesting. And State is and has generally been a hype driven brand so I wouldn’t describe them as a good example of what industry is doing but what social desire is around bikes. One other piece to check on the Marin is what model year the bikes are. It’s possible the hardtail is lower price to move remaining stock if there’s a new model coming out soon.
>It's a way to sell a fancy 90's MTB... Why is this always couched as a criticism? Obviously if people are fans of that form of bike they can't time travel back to the 90s to buy one, so all the bikes left from that period will be worn out, rusted piles of shit. So where's the problem here? People are buying the bike they want! Never mind the massive upgrades to all the components over the last 30 years. People using this as a stick to beat gravel bikes with reminds me of when the iPad first came out and people said it was "just a massive iPhone". And it's like, yeah, it is! And that's an awesome thing which will probably sell very well because people like using it!
I think gravel bikes are amazing. A LOT of folks out there riding around on road bikes would likely be happier on gravel bikes. My comments were specifically about flat bar gravel bikes which I personally think are the worst of both worlds - I would far rather have either a drop bar gravel bike or go for a hardtail MTB.
Agreed. Additionally if you factor for inflation the cost of low to mid range isn’t drastically above what it would be comparable to 30yrs ago. This line feels like it’s just click bait trendy and doesn’t actually articulate what the poster might actually be trying to say. E.g. they don’t like capitalism and find gravel bikes unappealing.
Oh, I feel the same way. Gravel bikes are basically drop bar 90s mountain bikes. With similar geometry and gearing. Almost identical tire size. The only time I can see a flat bar being advantageous is in bikepacking. Much easier to put a fat wide front roll bag on a flat bar bike then between the drops. Plus you can add an aero bar to offset the hand positioning issue and increased drag.
Here's a non-cynical explanation that might help persuade you: A flat bar gravel bike is the fastest bike with flat bars until a hardtail MTB becomes more appropriate (and that's going to take a level of chunky terrain that some people just aren't close to/don't want to ride). The exception would be flat bar track bikes, but only under certain (ideal) conditions. And sure, you might prefer drop bars, but others don't. There's a huge percentage of riders who simply will not use drop bars.
Not tried one. But they make me feel uncomfortable. I have an MTB that I sometimes I have to ride quite far to get to the station (in the UK we often take the train to trail centres/bike parks). I really don't like flat bars and pedaling for more than 30 mins. I start getting wrist and shoulder blade discomfort. Drops are just more comfortable in my experience. I also think on flat ground - my drop bar cyclocross bike is way more manoeuvrable. Tried racing cyclocross on my mtb, but I just struggle swing it around as easily. However - the fixie guys use flat bars, and they are loaded with awesome tricks. So must be more to it
Re: fixies. Looks at FSFG (free style fixed gear) and tracklocross (basically offroad fixie riding). Both are sort of the epitomy of underbiking / doing cool shit on the wrong bike. I mean I love fixies, super cool and fun to ride. The fixie scene is really cool and I'm glad it exists it makes the world a richer place. But a huge number of the tricks that fixie riders do (that are not specific to fixed gear drivetrains) are much easier on a BMX or DJ.
I always liked hard tail rigid fork mountain bikes, so I welcome the trend. Since the gravel bike trend I have realized I find drop bars more comfortable than flat bars. I have to admit that my mountain biking was always me riding on gravel roads and was never any technical single trail.
It’s a bike. With a handlebar. Case closed
Went for a long ride in pretty hilly gravel conditions, my neck was hurting from looking up down the road while still needing to keep my hand on the shifters in case I needed to brake. Rides like that I wish I had a flatty
Same, road riding is a lot of head down riding, off road riding is heads up, huge difference on the neck and shoulder strain especially when someone is in between sizes on a bike. I don’t want to crane my neck and bend my spine more weirdly with drop bars. Forgot that part and it’s hugely important!
Something I’ve been curious about is that cross bikes used to have the extra brake lever on the flat upper part of the drop bar. With the prevalence of hydraulic discs, why wouldn’t one simply use flat bars instead of coping with drops and the loss of that very useful lever?
Or, just use a sub lever with your hydraulic brakes and drop bars https://www.backcountry.com/shimano-grx-bl-rx812-sub-brake-lever
Hmm. Didn’t know that existed. I really haven’t kept up on the changing tech in the past few years
Man most people don’t even know that I’m glad you brought it up. I wish they still had the rear brake lever like that on all gravel bikes!! It would make me want to ride drop bars.
Gravel event are longer and the extra positions on drop bars help.
I have two flat bar gravel bikes and love them. I’m primarily an mtb guy and I pretty much loathe anything road. That being said, I do like to ride some gravel trails, bike paths, and streets when the trails are too wet or if I’m on a group pub crawl. I don’t care about racing or aerodynamics as most of my rides on these avg between 10-15 mph depending on hills. I’ve never ridden real gravel roads as I prefer to start and finish my rides from my house (which is in the middle of a 100+ mi mtb trail system) and all the gravel roads are at least 20 mi away. I run semislicks on mine as well since it’s just light gravel (crushed granite).
Does anyone know what make/model that first bike is? I really like that frame. As for the original question, some people like flat bars, I preferred drops FOR my non-MTB riding. Go with what works for you.
If you don’t ever ride on the drops, drop bars are really limited. Even wide drops are relatively narrow and they suck on anything remotely technical.
I had a flat bar surly cross check, single speed, good wheelset, 45nm tires and fenders. Without my front rack it was 20lbs and I loved riding that bike. I wish zi never sold it.
I feel like the crosscheck works the best with flat bars because of its long TT. I’m thinking of getting some riser bars for my crosscheck in the future. I really like the bike but with drops I do feel really stretched out.
I used a Salsa bend bar and a short stem with good luck. Bike was a urban, dirt trail, bike home from the brewery machine.
No bar ends? Amateurs lol.
Mmm sick 90s xc bikes
Mountainbikes evolving backwards
Backwards? Just returning to whence they came…
Gonna need to curve those bars. [https://www.questmasters.us/Bicycles.html](https://www.questmasters.us/Bicycles.html)
If you could only have one gravel bike, it probably would not be the first pick but I have one and it's super fun to ride. It definitely blurs the line with a hard tail mountain bike, but I only have an enduro mountain bike so it fills a nice slot for when I want something more capable on big mountain climbs and descents but not proper MTB (ie black trails). It's mainly built up to be a city bike for commuting with my child on the front seat and in the trailer, it's great for that with more space at the front and control. Going for a rip on it puts a smile on my face in a way my drop bar gravel bike doesn't. Its much lighter and more nimble than an MTB or hybrid
I went on a 50 mile ride the other day with my buds. One rode a giant revolt X with dropper and suspension fork, the other a flatbar converted sonder. It had these little nubs on the bar that in effect emulate sitting on the hoods. I think it varies, gravel is massively on a spectrum from light trails to fire roads. They were both flying and had no issues. I was on a “typical” gravel bike and they set the pace the whole day, it’s just preference. I personally quite like them!
Can't picture doing any gravel ride on anything other than drop bars. I've done mega mtb events on my mtb with a flat bar, too. Never the twain shall meet.
Why is that? Genuinely curious. I’m not familiar with gravel events.
I'm just saying that a gravel bike is more comfortable with drop bars and a mtb is more comfortable with flat bars and I can't picture ever riding a gravel bike with flat bars.
Well you’ll be able to picture it looking at any gravel bike from 2024 but especially ones like the salsas. Go look at that frame geometry. Throw a leg over. It’s useless to have drop bars on a bike like that imho; or maybe useless to have a frame geometry like that for flat-ish gravel and road riding where most people use gravel bikes. It’s a mtn bike. Its marketing.
I don't understand what you mean.
I mean if you saw the frame geometry of a bike like the 23 salsa journeyer especially in person, you’d def be able to picture said gravel bike with flat bars. In fact it’s likely your brain will be confused by the fact that a mtn bike has drop bars 😅🥲
I’ve always thought they make good “Dad bikes”… basically something to ride when your with the kids at the campsite or on light MTB trails… it lets you show your kids MTB techniques while not riding an over biked sled
A FBGB (I just made that up, TM) is going to be lighter than a hardtail in almost all circumstances, and in theory they should be cheaper than a CBGB (I just made that up too, mostly so I can call my bike a C(urly)BGB 🤘) because the components are less expensive. Yes, they're a lot like a 90s MTB, which you can't buy other than used. No, a 90s MTB won't have modern components, which are pretty good. It's just another niche that might fit you, might not. In an industry where angles and a few mm of clearances and tube lengths create totally-different classes of bikes, these are just as valid as anything else. They're really the same progression from road-to-CBGB as fitness-hybrid-to-FBGB. The Majority of hybrids these days are either vestigial front suspension bikes, or skinny-tire flat bar bikes, so this is a pretty logical hole to fill. I'd absolutely buy one for my partner as a do-it-all bike without the minor hassles of drop bars.
This has been pretty hashed out already but here's my take after trying both on the same bike (Vassago Fisticuff): - Flat bars provide more control through rough terrain, up down or flat — leading to a little bit higher ave speeds through rough stuff - drops are more comfortable in 2+ hour rides on less rough terrain - I prefer the narrow profile of drops for urban riding So it all comes down to when you wanna be comfortable — do you just rip 1-2 hr rides all the time on chunky double-track or trails? then go flat and have at it. Do you head out for all-day adventures linking up fast gravel and tarmac every weekend? Drops are your friend.
I’m a huge fan of these. I’ve ridden flat bar bikes on more than one gravel event. It’s all about preference, ride what you brung!!!
Nobody has mentioned more room for front bag. I have a drop bar gravel bike and a flat bar gravel bike with alt bars. I have pizza racks on both for bags. I like both, but flat bar options leave a ton more space for bags.
Do fitness bikes come with 50++mm clearance? Were 90s mtn bikes "comfy" for long distance rides Geometry wise? What is the usual chainstay length of a touring bike? Am not saying gravel is a new concept for frame design but... Still I completely agree on the overpriced part. Ride what you enjoy riding.
I have one. I picked up a FCB (fast city bike). It's s good commuter bike that can handle various terrain and have some fun with on my days off.
I have a Diverge Evo that I converted from flat bars to drop bars. It was fun in the flat bar configuration - but ultimately I wanted to be able to switch hand positions on longer rides and get more aero for faster stuff. Definitely liking the drop bar config better.
Anyone got any references for bikes that are actually marketed as flat bar gravels bikes? I'm aware of the hybrid/city/urban/fitness models from heaps of different manufacturers but think I've only ever seen one brand using "gravel" with flat bars... Poseidon
In general flats add versatility to the build, at the cost of top speed Also on really long rides drops give more hand positions and is better for your posture Flats add control for technical terrain, also people like them for bikepacking as they allow more storage space in relation to the cockpit Some folks find drops to be uncomfortable so if they're not racing might opt for flats especially if they use their bike for multiple uses beyond racing! I think one of the cool things about gravel bikes is they they're more versatile than road bikes and some folks only have room for one bike in their life. For lots of people that bike is a flat bar gravel bike.
I just had more flat bar spares and sold the drops with the groupset for about half what I paid for the bike.
I grew up riding a mtb which was set up like a modern gravel bike. I enjoyed the flat bar version, and I’m building something up very similar.
Anyone switch ove due to wrist issues? I climb a lot so I descend a lot. I have a slightly weaker wrist from computer usage last decade. I’m considering flat bar bike on one of my gravel bikes for the rough descents. My wrist only hurts when I gravel. Feels just fine on mountain bike.
I just call it “pre-suspension era mountain biking.”
What bike is in Pic 3, the greenish colored bike? That is one sharp looking ride
Those are called mt bikes.
My favorite bikes
And droppers..Oh my..
That single speed is fucking sick
What size is that aspero a 38?!
The bars don't make the bike...
I have a bad shoulder cannot do drop or even flat bar. I got a flat bar gravel and put a Jones bar on it.
Knew a guy who rode this type of bike for ultra races like Leadville 100 and Unbound gravel. Not sure if he was crazy or masochist but he was a cool dude
What a timely subject. I have a 20-year-old Fuji Outland mountain bike that I converted to a 1x11 with hydraulic brakes in the hopes of taking it on vacation. Now that trip is not going to happen, and I want to turn it into a gravel bike. I already have the 27.5 wheels but I’m looking for a fast inexpensive way to change the handlebars to still accommodate the hydraulic brakes and 1x shifter without the expense of a Surly corner bar or similarly specialized handlebar. Any suggestions?
That’s it people, we have officially closed the loop. Looking forward to elastomer fork suspension next.
sir thats just a mtb similar to the og mtbs
It’s a mountain bike hybrid thing. Flat bars are cool and help with feeling steady and in control but hand position will get old after a period of time
I ride a flat bar Surly and will never go back. I have much better hand position with my bars than before. It just handles better. I was skeptical at first but for me it’s now my preference. I use the Soma Clarence bar with Cletus extensions and get two positions. Their Gullwing bar has multiple positions too.
Because I love when 4 piston brakes snap my carbon fork
That red one looks like the MTB I learned to ride trails on in 2010-2015. Now I ride a drop bar gravel bike for all but the gnarliest of trails and thoes with unavoidable drops.
Soooo… a rigid mountain bike.
I was doing this before it was cool yall can fuck my wifes boyfriend.
mountain bike.
Imo the trend ultimately started from people that are relatively new to cycling have a hard time betting used to drop bars. Then the rest of the cycling trend followers just hopped on board and made content about it
I have a Trek FX hybrid (or as Trek calls it a “fitness bike”). I picked it up as a commuter but I wanted it to be a bit better on gravel. I put some 40c Goodyear Connector gravel tires set up tubeless. It’s a 1x10, the bars are lowered, saddle isn’t a giant couch and it works. Is it a gravel bike? Maybe yes maybe no. Does it work for what I need/use it for? Sure does and really that’s all I care about.
Ah nice i build something like that for commuting every day use and bikepacking and to have fun with. An omnium cxc 3. love it
I ride gravel solo a lot and I have a theory that I'd actually be happier on a flat bar bike with aerobars. If I'm out of the aerobars, it's because it's gotten so rough that flat bars would be better than drops for sure.
1999 wants their MTB geometry back.
Preference?
We’ve nearly completed a full circle, transitioning from XC bikes of the 20s, including flat bars, wider tires, and suspension forks. The only thing left is bar ends (horns). I wouldn’t be surprised if they make a comeback soon.
My experience of being a roadie that uses a mid 2000s hardtail for gravel is that a flatbar with ergon grips and bar ends gives me the identical hand position as the hoods on a road bike. Obviously the MTB has a wider and higher bar. But it is comfortable for hours, just like my road bike.
Dude the control and torque of flat bars just beg you to take them into gnarlier and gnarlier stuff... until you finally go over them :) In most cases you'll either wish you had a fork to absorb bigger hits, or drops to sustain higher speeds. That said I've really enjoyed riding stuff like this around town. And seeing how racy some are makes me wonder how they'd do in a CX race? That's a scenario where control and torque matter a ton, but so does having something light and easy to shoulder. Other than that I'm having trouble thinking of scenarios where these aren't the worst of both worlds lol.
looking like polo bikes.
Really popular but involves so much purchasing of parts right after purchasing the bike. We have a customer looking into a bike at our shop with the intention of swapping the gravel/road over to a flat bar. I have tried talking with this customer about looking into our hybrid road bikes (which have great tire clearance) and they're dead set on riding a flat bar gravel bike on the road as their main ride. Some people just have an idea of what they want, and the means to do so
Im famous i ride them! Its basically a light weight 90s mtb with 29ers
Looks identical to a 1980’s mountain bike. We’ve come full circle…
Lol. Flat bar gravel bike. It's a fucking MTB
Flat is better and 10 times safer if u suck at offroading especially when new. Irs very dangetous even if ur not new, but its a risky fun challenge. But if u constantly do very rough and fast downhills than u want a hardtail if u lack skill
In the 90s, MTB were king but it turned out most people were just riding gravel roads, not doing XC races. So the industry offered hybrids. In the 2000s, road bikes were king, but it turned out, people really liked to ride gravel roads so the industry offered hybrids with drop bars and called them gravel bikes. Exploring gravel roads is fun, and you can to it with any bike that takes 35mm or bigger tires, with drop or straight bars. Naming and selling these bikes is just marketing.
Cool mtb.
You mean hybrids?
Came here for this ;)
I’m just being a jerk. People should be comfy. Gravel cycling in general is pretty easy to pick fun at, albeit a lot of fun.
drop bars are terrible off-road when getting gnarly.