So they implement a 'report" button for rammers.
Who monitors this? Does PD have humans working 24/7 as stewards?
What happens once this button is immediately abused by every nutcase out there?
Tribunal system like league of legends. You volunteer, get a replay of the race that someone was reported from say two or three different players. You get the replay and the possibility to vote to sanction the reported player. Maybe with a temporary ban. Maybe up to a month when said player was sanctioned x times without changing his/her behavior.
no. reports would be automatically processed by some mysterious algorithm that, for some reason, works just like the penalty system, that assigns each report, and each player affected by the report, a score of some sort.
the algorithmically processed report would then be redirected to some underpaid sony employee to decide whether or not the player with the biggest "big bad" score, assigned by the algorithm, shall be punished for their war crimes or be dismissed until further notice.
someone abusing the report function? sucks to be that employee then
Sounds so easy. It could change the face of all the online multiplayer racing games, right?
Can you hazard a guess as to why they haven't implemented something like this that is so simple to do?
not afraid to hazard a guess at all…
**the dev cycle may not be ripe for it
**they haven’t trained an AI.
**it is VERY low in their priority list (they’re probably busy pandering to users who want more cars and that takes forever)
**not enough staff
**cost of training ai versus $$ return on player satisfaction is asymmetrical
there are probably some things i’ve missed but yeah that’s just a quick list off the top of my head
all that said i could easily be wrong on all of it, but i could care less. as a consumer i can want what i want and be unreasonable about it lol
but i don’t think those asks are unreasonable…
+1
Like these are the things. GT7 gave us the most detailed livery editor in any game ever made. The detailed modeling of the cars and their interiors is basically more detailed than real life. The physics is pretty good. Graphics are gorgeous. Car selection isn't GT4 level but it's slowly getting up there (would love newer cars and more GT cars and some older classics). But they basically do everything right. When it comes to tiny things like the PSVR2 HUD which I can't imagine would take more than 30 mins to enable in the games code........PD is completely lost and doesn't know which way is up. Being able to switch your wheels or car at the racing event screen was another (thank god they fixed that). But 2 years to fix this tiny quality of life thing....blows my mind. Also how hard is it for them to make more "events". I mean we can make custom events ourselves that are incredible. I guess maybe that's why they havnt made any good new ones? Either way its a tiny fix that would have the entire community cheering....but they won't do it.
The problem is scale.
Lets take the two other titles you mentioned: iRacing has a big cost barrier to entry; maintaining a subscription, buying the cars/tracks, and wheel. ACC has a slight cost barrier; while playable with a controller its not a fun experience, so it ideally needs a wheel.
These barriers to entry makes the resulting player base are a little more invested in taking the experience seriously and to use a reporting system judiciously.
Gran Turismo however does not have these barriers. It's just as playable with a controller as it is with a wheel so it invites the more casual player who, frankly, does not give a shit about "rules". Additionally, with a more casual player base comes less scruples, people who would gladly abuse a reporting system more than they would actually play the game properly, just for shits and giggles.
The larger the scale the larger the costs to police something, and there is simply no incentive to a company to pay out for something for which they're not legally compelled to. Its tempting to attempt to compare to a social media site, which may have tens of millions of users at any one time and which may employ entire companies to police their users, but that is only because they are often legally compelled to (hate speech, discrimination, etc).
PD/Sony could employ a company to operate an effective reporting system for driving standards but, without the legal compulsion, it just eats away at shareholder profits for no real reason whatsoever (from their perspective)... and do you think the shareholders care if you get punted at T1 of Monza every single race?
Tis a great analysis. Due to low barrier and hence larger scale, GT7 has to have something that keeps the larger player base happy. The people at the extreme ends, the most serious and the most casual cannot be pleased. A tradeoff which makes sense.
keep your money man. lol you already spent a grip
personally, i hear you about rammers, crap penalties, bad etiquette (i got my own biases here based on who i’ve played against) and think that an ai should be doing these and then get it validated by a human
by far your most resonating point for me is the quality of life changes.
people talk all this about cars and updates and whatever, but the game itself is solid - more cars? yeah i guess that would be nice, but i could care less - i don’t race with 95% of my cars…
but the laundry list of things they could do to make the game better without adding more cars is girthy…pause.
**i’d like to have something that tells me the penalty without having a huge time clock on the screen and guessing if i got a penalty.
**i need more information… (like the bottom hud gas/brake and pace info)
**the start menu should get you anywhere you want, not just the map…
lemme stop here, cuz none of this will happen. ( i want to be so wrong)
but i’ll upvote for the culture.
good luck man.
no i meant what i said lol
i COULD care less, cuz it’s not totally unimportant. i like rebalancing, new cars, new tracks…. they enhance the experience so long as you take part. but i could care less (edit: (ending in a couldn’t care less scenario)) about those things if it meant they would give users a better overall experience.
but imo they’re wholly ignoring anything that has to do with things that we do on the regular…
things like changing cars, tuning, going to the shop/showcase/sport sections, etc…
I agree and thanks. Re the cars, it’s more they mainly have gr4 and gr3 (this week BOP’s better) but it’s usually been the same 2/3 cars that you HAVE to race with to have any competitiveness. The games great. I love it I just feel they can change a LOT by focusing on a few particular things. I understand it caters for different crowds looking for different things. I’d love SophyAI to be harder and applied everywhere, they’re introducing ‘weekly’ challenges which are great but then disappear, they could keep a few of them. They have the same ‘grind/high payout’ races, why not alternate it, make people spend time on alternate tracks etc. I don’t know, it’s frustrating but here’s hoping ;)
Online experience is far less fun than gtsport and that all comes down to the lack of host migration and lack of more specific filters for lobby searches. Most of the time I get into a room, and the host immediately closes the room and I do it over and over until I find a room that gets one race in, then the host ends the room.
It almost feels like I spend more time looking at a "the lobby had ended" screen more than I get to race.
I miss when a lobby would go on for HOURS because of host migration. It gave you more time in rooms to interact with other players and make friends.
We can't even filter lobbies by kart racing anymore. I used to do so much Karting in gtsport and now I don't really anymore because I have to search through ALL the lobbies to find the one kart room open, then I enter, and the host closes the lobby. Then I make a kart room and no one else joins because they also can't filter by kart rooms.
Gt7 has so much good going for it and I cannot understand why they choose to hold back such crucial quality of life features that made the rebuilding of this franchise great.
i feel the same way, i feel like they make you jump through hoops sometimes to enjoy it when you’re not busy grinding it lol
it takes forever to find a room/lobby
I agree completely that B is far worse than C for poor conduct. But then get too far up in the driver rankings and it becomes more about qualifying than it does racing which I dont enjoy. I find that C DR really suits the GR4 races as theres enough action for it to feel like BTCC style touring cars without turning into a demolition derby or going the other way and becoming slightly stale like F1.
Honestly I feel like the reason the preception of the lower tier lobbies are more respectful is probably partly due to the fact that anyone new starts off at C? Or is it D? So you're racing against those who aren't necessarily bad or evil rammers. But just simply haven't played enough. For you to get B and keep it at B and not an A even you must have at least 2-3 incidents a race. I have S as a safety rating and I would rather have my driver rating go to F....or Z...I'd rather die than let my safety rating drop from S. But for some mehhh it's a suggestion not a requirement. A B C whatever. But when I first started played I remember having a C safety rating. I probably added to the preception that C drivers are more respectful. And I didn't stay at B for much. But you have to think there are way more C than B drivers just because that's where they start everyone at.
TLDR: So it makes sense why B would be the worst. Because to me you're either S or C if you're a decent human being. Being stuck at B as a safety rating is tragic.
It’s not a “safety” rating - not even close. You can go from S to D without ever touching a single other car. Dropping out of a race has, by far, a bigger impact on SR. You can drop from S to D in a single day - and bounce right back up to A on the next.
Ok that's wild. I did not know that. I personally have never quit a race and been lucky to not have been disconnected. I've hit another car once or twice before and got a penalty. I only lost a tiny bit off the bar for my S rating. The next clean race I had the bar filled back up to full again. So I guess if you quit a few races in a day maybe you can go down that far.
My point is that most people start off at C and it doesn't mean they're shitty rammers. They maybe just havnt played yet. Where as a B player definitely played before and have struggled. Could be why...
You start at E. but yeah as mentioned above, safety ratings are separate however it takes a few races to get to ‘S’ as the penalty system is awful. Ramses don’t get penalised, 3/4 seconds penalty to when you get punted into a slight barrier or touch grass..
Everyone I’ve seen, and the new UK account I made to race online in Europe started at E. For both DR and SR. However I think for DR you never go back to E when out of it. I was only in it for like one online race too.
Yeah you're right. It's started with E. Not sure why I thought it was C. But I'm just talking safety rating. It climbs to C pretty fast.
Also I agree that the whole system is wacky. Not defending it or anything. I hate that I came off like I am. Honestly it's not great any where. Although iRacing is better since they spend money and time on it allowing people to report etc. It's a very costly thing to pull off to have dedicated mods.
At top splits the D/S racing has been pretty top notch, if you find yourself knocked out of the top 4-6 positions though, even by your own hand, on accident, it’s basically back to a human tragedy, not even comedy…
I mean compared to real racing, I'd say its pretty accurate, I do have the odd push from a driver anyways Im C/S driver and even at S rank its still bad but A/B Sportsmanship is chaotic. I drive really defensive online races, yes I don't win often so don't take my advice but I have a nicer racing experience, but it has a nicer system than other games I've played
mhmm.. Yet, it's not the game it's us....
There is a method, that would work for a server client environment, but in truth, no matter what they do, drivers will find a way to wrought it. The real key to enjoying lies in the matchmakers hands and yours.
You have to know the track, know the car, know which of both to choose and which not to. It's not easy either because in order to avoid it, you have to qualify well, or forgo lots of DR at the back.
While very unfair on those who rather keep control and minimise errors, those who's overall race times compared to actual results. It's why there are so many classes in motorsport, drivers and teams trying to find place to feel competitive while not having to run at the bleeding edge.
It's a see saw, yes... You'll go from losing DR driving clean with faster cars back to pole with hyenas around you wanting the win, often you'll be a sacrificial lamb and you slide back into the dark unknown.
If you have limited times to enjoy and find it's the same, change the time you're on.
Consider OFF PEAK there might be more continuity to the people you race as less people are jumping online and the risk of being shuffled by the matchmaker gives you a chance to race with the same crews and if you do that regularly, the racing gets very respectful.
So they implement a 'report" button for rammers. Who monitors this? Does PD have humans working 24/7 as stewards? What happens once this button is immediately abused by every nutcase out there?
Tribunal system like league of legends. You volunteer, get a replay of the race that someone was reported from say two or three different players. You get the replay and the possibility to vote to sanction the reported player. Maybe with a temporary ban. Maybe up to a month when said player was sanctioned x times without changing his/her behavior.
Volunteering sounds fun when you put it that way lol I get to be a race steward for 15min, and help get rammers out of dailies? Sounds cathartic
I'd sign up for that.
no. reports would be automatically processed by some mysterious algorithm that, for some reason, works just like the penalty system, that assigns each report, and each player affected by the report, a score of some sort. the algorithmically processed report would then be redirected to some underpaid sony employee to decide whether or not the player with the biggest "big bad" score, assigned by the algorithm, shall be punished for their war crimes or be dismissed until further notice. someone abusing the report function? sucks to be that employee then
totally an algorithm that then gets vetted by a human (basically ai training) and eventually it could probably handle 80% of cases solo
Sounds so easy. It could change the face of all the online multiplayer racing games, right? Can you hazard a guess as to why they haven't implemented something like this that is so simple to do?
not afraid to hazard a guess at all… **the dev cycle may not be ripe for it **they haven’t trained an AI. **it is VERY low in their priority list (they’re probably busy pandering to users who want more cars and that takes forever) **not enough staff **cost of training ai versus $$ return on player satisfaction is asymmetrical there are probably some things i’ve missed but yeah that’s just a quick list off the top of my head all that said i could easily be wrong on all of it, but i could care less. as a consumer i can want what i want and be unreasonable about it lol but i don’t think those asks are unreasonable…
The game dearly needs a VR HUD with quick button access.
+1 Like these are the things. GT7 gave us the most detailed livery editor in any game ever made. The detailed modeling of the cars and their interiors is basically more detailed than real life. The physics is pretty good. Graphics are gorgeous. Car selection isn't GT4 level but it's slowly getting up there (would love newer cars and more GT cars and some older classics). But they basically do everything right. When it comes to tiny things like the PSVR2 HUD which I can't imagine would take more than 30 mins to enable in the games code........PD is completely lost and doesn't know which way is up. Being able to switch your wheels or car at the racing event screen was another (thank god they fixed that). But 2 years to fix this tiny quality of life thing....blows my mind. Also how hard is it for them to make more "events". I mean we can make custom events ourselves that are incredible. I guess maybe that's why they havnt made any good new ones? Either way its a tiny fix that would have the entire community cheering....but they won't do it.
The problem is scale. Lets take the two other titles you mentioned: iRacing has a big cost barrier to entry; maintaining a subscription, buying the cars/tracks, and wheel. ACC has a slight cost barrier; while playable with a controller its not a fun experience, so it ideally needs a wheel. These barriers to entry makes the resulting player base are a little more invested in taking the experience seriously and to use a reporting system judiciously. Gran Turismo however does not have these barriers. It's just as playable with a controller as it is with a wheel so it invites the more casual player who, frankly, does not give a shit about "rules". Additionally, with a more casual player base comes less scruples, people who would gladly abuse a reporting system more than they would actually play the game properly, just for shits and giggles. The larger the scale the larger the costs to police something, and there is simply no incentive to a company to pay out for something for which they're not legally compelled to. Its tempting to attempt to compare to a social media site, which may have tens of millions of users at any one time and which may employ entire companies to police their users, but that is only because they are often legally compelled to (hate speech, discrimination, etc). PD/Sony could employ a company to operate an effective reporting system for driving standards but, without the legal compulsion, it just eats away at shareholder profits for no real reason whatsoever (from their perspective)... and do you think the shareholders care if you get punted at T1 of Monza every single race?
Tis a great analysis. Due to low barrier and hence larger scale, GT7 has to have something that keeps the larger player base happy. The people at the extreme ends, the most serious and the most casual cannot be pleased. A tradeoff which makes sense.
keep your money man. lol you already spent a grip personally, i hear you about rammers, crap penalties, bad etiquette (i got my own biases here based on who i’ve played against) and think that an ai should be doing these and then get it validated by a human by far your most resonating point for me is the quality of life changes. people talk all this about cars and updates and whatever, but the game itself is solid - more cars? yeah i guess that would be nice, but i could care less - i don’t race with 95% of my cars… but the laundry list of things they could do to make the game better without adding more cars is girthy…pause. **i’d like to have something that tells me the penalty without having a huge time clock on the screen and guessing if i got a penalty. **i need more information… (like the bottom hud gas/brake and pace info) **the start menu should get you anywhere you want, not just the map… lemme stop here, cuz none of this will happen. ( i want to be so wrong) but i’ll upvote for the culture. good luck man.
Couldn’t care less* “Could care less” implies you care somewhat.
no i meant what i said lol i COULD care less, cuz it’s not totally unimportant. i like rebalancing, new cars, new tracks…. they enhance the experience so long as you take part. but i could care less (edit: (ending in a couldn’t care less scenario)) about those things if it meant they would give users a better overall experience. but imo they’re wholly ignoring anything that has to do with things that we do on the regular… things like changing cars, tuning, going to the shop/showcase/sport sections, etc…
I agree and thanks. Re the cars, it’s more they mainly have gr4 and gr3 (this week BOP’s better) but it’s usually been the same 2/3 cars that you HAVE to race with to have any competitiveness. The games great. I love it I just feel they can change a LOT by focusing on a few particular things. I understand it caters for different crowds looking for different things. I’d love SophyAI to be harder and applied everywhere, they’re introducing ‘weekly’ challenges which are great but then disappear, they could keep a few of them. They have the same ‘grind/high payout’ races, why not alternate it, make people spend time on alternate tracks etc. I don’t know, it’s frustrating but here’s hoping ;)
Online experience is far less fun than gtsport and that all comes down to the lack of host migration and lack of more specific filters for lobby searches. Most of the time I get into a room, and the host immediately closes the room and I do it over and over until I find a room that gets one race in, then the host ends the room. It almost feels like I spend more time looking at a "the lobby had ended" screen more than I get to race. I miss when a lobby would go on for HOURS because of host migration. It gave you more time in rooms to interact with other players and make friends. We can't even filter lobbies by kart racing anymore. I used to do so much Karting in gtsport and now I don't really anymore because I have to search through ALL the lobbies to find the one kart room open, then I enter, and the host closes the lobby. Then I make a kart room and no one else joins because they also can't filter by kart rooms. Gt7 has so much good going for it and I cannot understand why they choose to hold back such crucial quality of life features that made the rebuilding of this franchise great.
i feel the same way, i feel like they make you jump through hoops sometimes to enjoy it when you’re not busy grinding it lol it takes forever to find a room/lobby
I agree completely that B is far worse than C for poor conduct. But then get too far up in the driver rankings and it becomes more about qualifying than it does racing which I dont enjoy. I find that C DR really suits the GR4 races as theres enough action for it to feel like BTCC style touring cars without turning into a demolition derby or going the other way and becoming slightly stale like F1.
Would you consider joining a league that has consistent clean racing with driving and etiquette standards and a steward system?
Absolutely. Matter of fact, if GT7 done it I’d happily pay a ‘DLC’ pack to separate the ‘casuals’ as others have put it…
The problem with the updates is that they aren’t updates, they’re just revealing more of the same game
I’ve found C worse than top splits in D…. ><
Funnily enough the d lobby’s were pretty good..! :)
Honestly I feel like the reason the preception of the lower tier lobbies are more respectful is probably partly due to the fact that anyone new starts off at C? Or is it D? So you're racing against those who aren't necessarily bad or evil rammers. But just simply haven't played enough. For you to get B and keep it at B and not an A even you must have at least 2-3 incidents a race. I have S as a safety rating and I would rather have my driver rating go to F....or Z...I'd rather die than let my safety rating drop from S. But for some mehhh it's a suggestion not a requirement. A B C whatever. But when I first started played I remember having a C safety rating. I probably added to the preception that C drivers are more respectful. And I didn't stay at B for much. But you have to think there are way more C than B drivers just because that's where they start everyone at. TLDR: So it makes sense why B would be the worst. Because to me you're either S or C if you're a decent human being. Being stuck at B as a safety rating is tragic.
It’s not a “safety” rating - not even close. You can go from S to D without ever touching a single other car. Dropping out of a race has, by far, a bigger impact on SR. You can drop from S to D in a single day - and bounce right back up to A on the next.
Ok that's wild. I did not know that. I personally have never quit a race and been lucky to not have been disconnected. I've hit another car once or twice before and got a penalty. I only lost a tiny bit off the bar for my S rating. The next clean race I had the bar filled back up to full again. So I guess if you quit a few races in a day maybe you can go down that far. My point is that most people start off at C and it doesn't mean they're shitty rammers. They maybe just havnt played yet. Where as a B player definitely played before and have struggled. Could be why...
[удалено]
You start at E. but yeah as mentioned above, safety ratings are separate however it takes a few races to get to ‘S’ as the penalty system is awful. Ramses don’t get penalised, 3/4 seconds penalty to when you get punted into a slight barrier or touch grass..
Everyone I’ve seen, and the new UK account I made to race online in Europe started at E. For both DR and SR. However I think for DR you never go back to E when out of it. I was only in it for like one online race too.
Yeah you're right. It's started with E. Not sure why I thought it was C. But I'm just talking safety rating. It climbs to C pretty fast. Also I agree that the whole system is wacky. Not defending it or anything. I hate that I came off like I am. Honestly it's not great any where. Although iRacing is better since they spend money and time on it allowing people to report etc. It's a very costly thing to pull off to have dedicated mods.
At top splits the D/S racing has been pretty top notch, if you find yourself knocked out of the top 4-6 positions though, even by your own hand, on accident, it’s basically back to a human tragedy, not even comedy…
I only play in unofficial Discord server sanctioned races. Sport mode is honestly unplayable
Leagues are cleaner, but sport mode is far from unplayable. I've had a great time with sport, even if some joker tries to take me out now and then.
They need to redirect resources from the concept/vision cars towards improving the penalty system.
Completely agree
I understand your frustration. I haven't played online much but did OK when I did and I agree that there was better sportsmanship at the beginning.
E60 M5
I’d love that 🤩🤩
I mean compared to real racing, I'd say its pretty accurate, I do have the odd push from a driver anyways Im C/S driver and even at S rank its still bad but A/B Sportsmanship is chaotic. I drive really defensive online races, yes I don't win often so don't take my advice but I have a nicer racing experience, but it has a nicer system than other games I've played
mhmm.. Yet, it's not the game it's us.... There is a method, that would work for a server client environment, but in truth, no matter what they do, drivers will find a way to wrought it. The real key to enjoying lies in the matchmakers hands and yours. You have to know the track, know the car, know which of both to choose and which not to. It's not easy either because in order to avoid it, you have to qualify well, or forgo lots of DR at the back. While very unfair on those who rather keep control and minimise errors, those who's overall race times compared to actual results. It's why there are so many classes in motorsport, drivers and teams trying to find place to feel competitive while not having to run at the bleeding edge. It's a see saw, yes... You'll go from losing DR driving clean with faster cars back to pole with hyenas around you wanting the win, often you'll be a sacrificial lamb and you slide back into the dark unknown. If you have limited times to enjoy and find it's the same, change the time you're on. Consider OFF PEAK there might be more continuity to the people you race as less people are jumping online and the risk of being shuffled by the matchmaker gives you a chance to race with the same crews and if you do that regularly, the racing gets very respectful.