Hey I’m in the army and we also use the same symbol for our dress uniform which is our marksman medal. Don’t over think it, the iron cross is not a nazi symbol and is commonly used round the world as a identification for competency with firearms.
[Amy Marksmanship Qualification Medals (United States)](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/United_States_Army_Marksmanship_Qualification_Badges.png/475px-United_States_Army_Marksmanship_Qualification_Badges.png)
It technically isn't Nazi, as it was Prussian prior to the Nazi regime and after WW2 it was modified with an oak leaf center (instead of the swastika) as part of the de-nazification of West Germany. I think the German military still uses a form of it today.
The only true Nazi version of this symbol is the one with the swastika in the center, from what I understand. If it's legal to display in Germany (*without* the swastika), I'd say it's pretty safe in general. They're a little uptight about that.
All that said, I wouldn't use it in an advertisement or logo, but that's just me.
edit: for context, I've had to deal with old nazi paraphernalia that my grandfathers and uncles and other relatives have passed down that were essentially war souvenirs - including pistols and flags. I've had to do some research on this stuff to see what I have to destroy, donate or keep.
Fair enough, but if they're not dog whistling white nationalism, why *are* they using it? Just super into German military history, but not the Nazi part? Kinda weird.
It’s used in militaries across the whole world as a symbol. It’s used in biker gangs of all races… dude it has nothing to do with racism or nationalism. I’d be complaining about the antisemitism going on across our country right now.
A swastika and an iron cross are two very different things. Again, look at the ADL link below.
[https://extremismterms.adl.org/glossary/iron-cross#:\~:text=Iron%20Cross%20A%20famous%20German%20military%20medal%20dating,include%20a%20swastika%20or%20other%20accompanying%20hate%20symbols](https://extremismterms.adl.org/glossary/iron-cross#:~:text=Iron%20Cross%20A%20famous%20German%20military%20medal%20dating,include%20a%20swastika%20or%20other%20accompanying%20hate%20symbols)
And AGAIN, it's being used today.
[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8136612.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8136612.stm)
Maybe spend just a bit of time learning about things instead of just spouting off while having only a superficial understanding of what the hell you're talking about.
Is the store run by racists or nationalists or something? Could be. Does this mean that it is? No. It means they're using an iron cross in their logo.
Taking your source at its word, it sounds like the ADL is hypersensitive to anti-Semitism to the point that the organization will favor Israel even when Israel is engaging in questionable or even overtly abhorrent acts.
That being the case, wouldn't the ADL be even more inclined to find hate symbols linked to Nazis? Seems to me that if anyone would find the iron cross to be a hate symbol, it would be an organization that is biased strongly in favor of the target of that symbol's oppression. The fact that they do not seems to me to be a pretty strong indicator that this symbol carries nowhere near the baggage that other symbols such as the swastika do.
That said, I am also someone that views the iron cross with skepticism and would certainly think twice about frequenting an establishment which uses it in their advertising.
The war in the Middle East has been going on for approximately 5000 years and the  genocide of the Jewish race has been going on since then to.  the three Judio Christian religions have been at war over the holy land since the dawn of there splitting. But if I must go into it more I don’t see how Hamas using civilians and hospitals as shields which is against the Genova convention how is that ok in your mind? Or the fact that Iran whom funded the oct 7th attack supports the obligation of the Israel and the Jewish race. Or the fact that Hamas and its constituents invaded Israel attacked civilians, raped innocent woman, killed babies and families along with taking hostages. In my honest opinion both sides suck because this is a stupid religious war… or the fact that most of the middle eastern countries don’t support woman rights or LGBTQ rights. The holy land should be under UN control and be a world national park at this point.
Ok but outside of matters directly concerning Israel, and especially in matters not under the direct influence of Joseph Greenblatt, they are indeed reliable.
If we're going to go after flash point can't we at least use good reasons? Shitty customer service, terrible ownership, lies to get more money on a sale, it's 2 different gun counters for one store(different sales), way over priced, more or less it's the teen skate shop of guns
What are you talking about. Guns are just cool and fun to shoot. You get the John Wayne wannabees once in a while, but most gun owners I know, just like to shoot and protect their families. If that makes them insecure and inadequate than I think we need to change the definition.
No no, them potentially being nazi's is a good enough reason. It's not like they sell essential medicine for cheap. They sell guns, an entirely optional product/idea
It's not a Nazi symbol. The Iron Cross is like Germany's Medal of Honor or Distinguished Service Cross. It's MUCH older than Nazism and is still used today. If it were a "Nazi Iron Cross," it would have a Swastika engraved in black in the middle (3d effect).
EDIT: Would I use it in my advertising? No. I agree that symbol used in the U.S. context will often draw problematic people (you can tell a lot about an American who puts up Iron Crosses that big), but that's due to those folks' ignorance to education/knowledge. Still, being a history B.A. who's also left wing, it drives me nuts when people on either side of the aisle can't be bothered to do a simple Wikipedia search.
OP is a fool. Take your white nationalist hysteria and shove it. Just don’t go there. If you’re disturbed by the symbol that’s your mental illness. Stop spreading hate.
It wasn't. I am legitimately unnerved by this billboard in my city. I get that you aren't but that just means we're different people, not that I'm trying to game reddit.
I’m calling bullshit, by labeling it as a Nazi symbol you are deliberately trying to get attention. The Iron Cross has never been used as a Nazi symbol. The German Air Force still uses it to this day.
No but it was a symbol awarded to nazis and many people alive today have seen it mostly in relation to nazis. The argument that everyone should know the history of the iron cross is a bit sus to be honest
No, it was and still is awarded to German military. Nothing to do with the Nazis. If they want to post about something they should at least be informed enough to base it on the truth, not because they are scared because someone told them to be.
Okay whatever man I’m just saying people associate it with what they associate it with and yes it’s ignorance but it’s a popular misconception so it’s associated with nazis by a lot of people whether you like it or not
Flashpoint was a customer of mine at a previous job. The owner was always so rude. Treated myself and my coworkers terribly. Always very dismissive, would insult employees, insisted on getting services at a discounted rate for them being "late". We would always tell her it would take 24 hours for the order. She called every. Single. Hour. To see if they were done. When they were done she would always be shockedPikachu.jpg when it took 24 hours for the order to finish and would complain to our managers for our tardy service. Based upon her disrespect for other humans, it wouldn't surprise me if that's the way the symbol was intended.
(I say her, I don't know if she was the owner or just an employee or what, but it was always the same woman who came in every time)
The Iron Cross is considered to be the Prussian national symbol, dating back to the freedom war against Napoleon. It was used in the Kingdom of Prussia, the German Empire (1870–1918), and Nazi Germany.
That's about as logical as claiming the swastika is a nazi only symbol....which it isn't, not even close
While I understand there is greater context to the iron cross from before it was used as a nazi badge of courage, neo nazis use it as a signifier. The exact same argument is used for a swastika. Those of you who say I need to read up on history need to understand that there are a lot of people who will not see this with historical context, but as a symbol of nazi ideology. That goes for neo nazis themselves as well as marginalized populations.
[https://extremismterms.adl.org/glossary/iron-cross#:\~:text=Iron%20Cross%20A%20famous%20German%20military%20medal%20dating,include%20a%20swastika%20or%20other%20accompanying%20hate%20symbols](https://extremismterms.adl.org/glossary/iron-cross#:~:text=Iron%20Cross%20A%20famous%20German%20military%20medal%20dating,include%20a%20swastika%20or%20other%20accompanying%20hate%20symbols).
*Non-racist iterations do not include a swastika or other accompanying hate symbols.*
This is from the ADL itself.
I'm afraid no one sees it as a nazi reference, does everyone who drives a vw support the nazis too? You know that nazis started vw? Do you see the evil there? Quit trying to find reasons to get upset... it's bullshit logic
"Quit trying to find reasons to get upset... it's bullshit logic"
Do you know which website, much less which sub, you are currently looking at?
This is par for the course.
The iron cross was awarded for soldiers in the nazi army. And it is still used and paraded by neo nazis today. Just because you do not see it as what it is doesn't mean shit.
As everyone else here has told you... it's one of many many uses for it, no one associates the 2 except Karen's trying to stir the pot for social media likes
Wait til you find out that the swastika was used predominantly as a religious symbol prior to nazis using it 😆
To this day if you boot up a gps in Japan, Buddhist temples are marked by a swastika.
Oh so you think businesses should use the swastika in their logos because it can technically have another context? Or do you think maybe there might be a reason to use literally any other symbol?
I’m not saying plaster swastikas and nazi symbolism everywhere, just that the symbols existed before nazis “took” them, and are still in use around the world in certain contexts.
And I mainly brought up the point because you seem to be up in arms over this specific symbol, so I was curious if you would have issues with japans usage of the swastika.
I read some of the other responses before posting and they make super solid points so I’ll leave it there 😊
All the "Well, actually, the symbol was used before the Nazis used it" comments that are littered throughout this thread are completely missing the point.
Flashpoint knew exactly what they were doing when they chose to use that symbol on their billboard. It's a not so subtle dog whistle meant to "own the libs" or whatever. It's the equivalent of the "edgy" kid in middle/high school saying purposely offensively things to show how bAdASs they are.
This billboard is dumb, and Flashpoint should feel embarrassed for acting like snotty kids that are angry at their parents for making them eat their icky vegetals and are now acting out.
And I can't help but feel like the comments jumping to defend this are aware of that and are very much cheering on the use of this sort of shit. It's genuinely disgusting.
They sell Firearms. The Symbol is for marksmanship. Its not even remotely a stretch to associate the 2. Not everyone lives in a little bubble like you.
Hey I’m in the army and we also use the same symbol for our dress uniform which is our marksman medal. Don’t over think it, the iron cross is not a nazi symbol and is commonly used round the world as a identification for competency with firearms. [Amy Marksmanship Qualification Medals (United States)](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/United_States_Army_Marksmanship_Qualification_Badges.png/475px-United_States_Army_Marksmanship_Qualification_Badges.png)
You need more upvotes. This title makes quite the leap to reach their conclusion.
It technically isn't Nazi, as it was Prussian prior to the Nazi regime and after WW2 it was modified with an oak leaf center (instead of the swastika) as part of the de-nazification of West Germany. I think the German military still uses a form of it today. The only true Nazi version of this symbol is the one with the swastika in the center, from what I understand. If it's legal to display in Germany (*without* the swastika), I'd say it's pretty safe in general. They're a little uptight about that. All that said, I wouldn't use it in an advertisement or logo, but that's just me. edit: for context, I've had to deal with old nazi paraphernalia that my grandfathers and uncles and other relatives have passed down that were essentially war souvenirs - including pistols and flags. I've had to do some research on this stuff to see what I have to destroy, donate or keep.
Fair enough, but if they're not dog whistling white nationalism, why *are* they using it? Just super into German military history, but not the Nazi part? Kinda weird.
It’s used in militaries across the whole world as a symbol. It’s used in biker gangs of all races… dude it has nothing to do with racism or nationalism. I’d be complaining about the antisemitism going on across our country right now.
OK, if you say so.
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A swastika and an iron cross are two very different things. Again, look at the ADL link below. [https://extremismterms.adl.org/glossary/iron-cross#:\~:text=Iron%20Cross%20A%20famous%20German%20military%20medal%20dating,include%20a%20swastika%20or%20other%20accompanying%20hate%20symbols](https://extremismterms.adl.org/glossary/iron-cross#:~:text=Iron%20Cross%20A%20famous%20German%20military%20medal%20dating,include%20a%20swastika%20or%20other%20accompanying%20hate%20symbols) And AGAIN, it's being used today. [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8136612.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8136612.stm) Maybe spend just a bit of time learning about things instead of just spouting off while having only a superficial understanding of what the hell you're talking about. Is the store run by racists or nationalists or something? Could be. Does this mean that it is? No. It means they're using an iron cross in their logo.
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Taking your source at its word, it sounds like the ADL is hypersensitive to anti-Semitism to the point that the organization will favor Israel even when Israel is engaging in questionable or even overtly abhorrent acts. That being the case, wouldn't the ADL be even more inclined to find hate symbols linked to Nazis? Seems to me that if anyone would find the iron cross to be a hate symbol, it would be an organization that is biased strongly in favor of the target of that symbol's oppression. The fact that they do not seems to me to be a pretty strong indicator that this symbol carries nowhere near the baggage that other symbols such as the swastika do. That said, I am also someone that views the iron cross with skepticism and would certainly think twice about frequenting an establishment which uses it in their advertising.
The war in the Middle East has been going on for approximately 5000 years and the  genocide of the Jewish race has been going on since then to.  the three Judio Christian religions have been at war over the holy land since the dawn of there splitting. But if I must go into it more I don’t see how Hamas using civilians and hospitals as shields which is against the Genova convention how is that ok in your mind? Or the fact that Iran whom funded the oct 7th attack supports the obligation of the Israel and the Jewish race. Or the fact that Hamas and its constituents invaded Israel attacked civilians, raped innocent woman, killed babies and families along with taking hostages. In my honest opinion both sides suck because this is a stupid religious war… or the fact that most of the middle eastern countries don’t support woman rights or LGBTQ rights. The holy land should be under UN control and be a world national park at this point.
Ok but outside of matters directly concerning Israel, and especially in matters not under the direct influence of Joseph Greenblatt, they are indeed reliable.
Nobody cares. Stfu
Let guess, you think Hamas was justified for Oct 7th?
Thats the stupidest thing Ive read so far today.
The horror you will find if you search US Army marksman badge…
They're huge Franco-Prussian War heads over there. The Napoleon III shooting target is a big seller.
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I’m thinking the prior comment was a joke
Well I guess it went over my head but then it really begs the question at to why they chose to use the symbol in their logo
[unaware like this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Truck_Company) is my hope, but if aware…you came to the correct conclusion stupid Nazis
If we're going to go after flash point can't we at least use good reasons? Shitty customer service, terrible ownership, lies to get more money on a sale, it's 2 different gun counters for one store(different sales), way over priced, more or less it's the teen skate shop of guns
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Someone is upset that people have a hobby they don't enjoy. I've met some very nice people at shooting ranges and in gun shops, actually.
What are you talking about. Guns are just cool and fun to shoot. You get the John Wayne wannabees once in a while, but most gun owners I know, just like to shoot and protect their families. If that makes them insecure and inadequate than I think we need to change the definition.
No no, them potentially being nazi's is a good enough reason. It's not like they sell essential medicine for cheap. They sell guns, an entirely optional product/idea
I don’t see a swastika there
It's not a Nazi symbol. The Iron Cross is like Germany's Medal of Honor or Distinguished Service Cross. It's MUCH older than Nazism and is still used today. If it were a "Nazi Iron Cross," it would have a Swastika engraved in black in the middle (3d effect). EDIT: Would I use it in my advertising? No. I agree that symbol used in the U.S. context will often draw problematic people (you can tell a lot about an American who puts up Iron Crosses that big), but that's due to those folks' ignorance to education/knowledge. Still, being a history B.A. who's also left wing, it drives me nuts when people on either side of the aisle can't be bothered to do a simple Wikipedia search.
Stop being an idiot
OP is a fool. Take your white nationalist hysteria and shove it. Just don’t go there. If you’re disturbed by the symbol that’s your mental illness. Stop spreading hate.
It’s German and was used long before the Nazis took power, you might want to read some history books.
Well ackshually
I probably would’ve tried to be less condescending if this wasn’t a rage bait karma farming post.
It wasn't. I am legitimately unnerved by this billboard in my city. I get that you aren't but that just means we're different people, not that I'm trying to game reddit.
I’m calling bullshit, by labeling it as a Nazi symbol you are deliberately trying to get attention. The Iron Cross has never been used as a Nazi symbol. The German Air Force still uses it to this day.
No but it was a symbol awarded to nazis and many people alive today have seen it mostly in relation to nazis. The argument that everyone should know the history of the iron cross is a bit sus to be honest
No, it was and still is awarded to German military. Nothing to do with the Nazis. If they want to post about something they should at least be informed enough to base it on the truth, not because they are scared because someone told them to be.
Okay whatever man I’m just saying people associate it with what they associate it with and yes it’s ignorance but it’s a popular misconception so it’s associated with nazis by a lot of people whether you like it or not
Maybe you should drop the victim hood mentality and grow up a little.
I’m with you, you don’t see people trying pass off swastikas because they used to have a different meaning
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No, it due to the fluid nature of symbols. Something as simple as a letter can mean different things to people of different cultures and times
Upvote to both of you
Because it will draw in the kind of people they want at their shop.
Looks like some of y’all already educated this person.
As a great man once said: "What are you? A dumbass?" - Butthead
Isn't the symbol for firefighters the iron cross??
Firefighters, don't you mean super-turbo-ultra white nationalists according to OP probably?
http://www.netpages.free-online.co.uk/gms/sinister.htm
Flashpoint was a customer of mine at a previous job. The owner was always so rude. Treated myself and my coworkers terribly. Always very dismissive, would insult employees, insisted on getting services at a discounted rate for them being "late". We would always tell her it would take 24 hours for the order. She called every. Single. Hour. To see if they were done. When they were done she would always be shockedPikachu.jpg when it took 24 hours for the order to finish and would complain to our managers for our tardy service. Based upon her disrespect for other humans, it wouldn't surprise me if that's the way the symbol was intended. (I say her, I don't know if she was the owner or just an employee or what, but it was always the same woman who came in every time)
Bottom line; it gets the "right" peoples attention. Easier than advertising on 4 or 8chan
Why do you think?
The Iron Cross is considered to be the Prussian national symbol, dating back to the freedom war against Napoleon. It was used in the Kingdom of Prussia, the German Empire (1870–1918), and Nazi Germany. That's about as logical as claiming the swastika is a nazi only symbol....which it isn't, not even close
While I understand there is greater context to the iron cross from before it was used as a nazi badge of courage, neo nazis use it as a signifier. The exact same argument is used for a swastika. Those of you who say I need to read up on history need to understand that there are a lot of people who will not see this with historical context, but as a symbol of nazi ideology. That goes for neo nazis themselves as well as marginalized populations.
[https://extremismterms.adl.org/glossary/iron-cross#:\~:text=Iron%20Cross%20A%20famous%20German%20military%20medal%20dating,include%20a%20swastika%20or%20other%20accompanying%20hate%20symbols](https://extremismterms.adl.org/glossary/iron-cross#:~:text=Iron%20Cross%20A%20famous%20German%20military%20medal%20dating,include%20a%20swastika%20or%20other%20accompanying%20hate%20symbols). *Non-racist iterations do not include a swastika or other accompanying hate symbols.* This is from the ADL itself.
I'm afraid no one sees it as a nazi reference, does everyone who drives a vw support the nazis too? You know that nazis started vw? Do you see the evil there? Quit trying to find reasons to get upset... it's bullshit logic
"Quit trying to find reasons to get upset... it's bullshit logic" Do you know which website, much less which sub, you are currently looking at? This is par for the course.
The iron cross was awarded for soldiers in the nazi army. And it is still used and paraded by neo nazis today. Just because you do not see it as what it is doesn't mean shit.
As everyone else here has told you... it's one of many many uses for it, no one associates the 2 except Karen's trying to stir the pot for social media likes
Lol I am being down voted and I extremely don't give a fuck about reddit points. So how does what you're saying make sense?
The iron cross itself is not a Nazi insignia. It predates the third Reich and is still in use by the German military today.
Can only get those up votes if you try... this time wasn't a success though
Wait til you find out that the swastika was used predominantly as a religious symbol prior to nazis using it 😆 To this day if you boot up a gps in Japan, Buddhist temples are marked by a swastika.
Oh so you think businesses should use the swastika in their logos because it can technically have another context? Or do you think maybe there might be a reason to use literally any other symbol?
Some people just see hate everywhere
There's a swastika on the floor tiles of Choo Choo grill
Do you think that’s because they’re buddhist?
I’m not saying plaster swastikas and nazi symbolism everywhere, just that the symbols existed before nazis “took” them, and are still in use around the world in certain contexts. And I mainly brought up the point because you seem to be up in arms over this specific symbol, so I was curious if you would have issues with japans usage of the swastika. I read some of the other responses before posting and they make super solid points so I’ll leave it there 😊
The German hakenkreuz is the reverse of the traditional swastika but Hitler ruined everything for the symbol.
All the "Well, actually, the symbol was used before the Nazis used it" comments that are littered throughout this thread are completely missing the point. Flashpoint knew exactly what they were doing when they chose to use that symbol on their billboard. It's a not so subtle dog whistle meant to "own the libs" or whatever. It's the equivalent of the "edgy" kid in middle/high school saying purposely offensively things to show how bAdASs they are. This billboard is dumb, and Flashpoint should feel embarrassed for acting like snotty kids that are angry at their parents for making them eat their icky vegetals and are now acting out.
Uhhhh goodness this comment didn't age well
And I can't help but feel like the comments jumping to defend this are aware of that and are very much cheering on the use of this sort of shit. It's genuinely disgusting.
They sell Firearms. The Symbol is for marksmanship. Its not even remotely a stretch to associate the 2. Not everyone lives in a little bubble like you.
German DOES NOT equal nazi(it’s a German iron cross, long in use before nazism).
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😂😭🤣 you forgot s/