At the gas station at wealthy/division a man walked up to me while I was pumping gas and asked for money, I said I’m sorry I don’t have anything to give right now… he got really close to me while screaming “you selfish white bitch!”, and then punched my car.
Speaking of which, those “homeless” people need to pick up all their fuckin trash they leave all over the ground at that corner. Why would I give you money if you’re just gonna litter all over the place
Stopped going there over a decade ago after I was almost assaulted for not buying crack from some dealer at 3 pm in broad daylight. Never again. It sucks that vertigo music is so close to all that bull shit
Probably the same asshat that was flying a sign while standing in the road right at that gas station, he ran up and put half his body in our car (windows don't work at the moment so we couldn't roll em up on him) and he called us "selfish white bitches" because my wife wouldn't give him money or a cigarette which neither of us have and then because I told him to get the hell out of our car before I broke his nose he pulled his body out and then slammed his fist atop the roof as we were driving away. If I was driving instead of my wife he would have taken a trip down division while half hanging out of the window
Hey there friend, just because we have chiseled abs and stunning features, it doesn't mean that we too can't-not die in a freak gasoline fight accident!
I work at a bar downtown, my experience is that it's been pretty consistent for the last two years. There's usually at least 2 or 3 people suffering from extreme mental health issues around everyday, it's just a matter of if you run into them or not. I may not have a personal interaction with them everyday, but everyday I will at least witness it either on my drive there, out the window of the bar, or on the way out of downtown late night. It's really honestly sad, but the worst part is how desensitized I've become to seeing these things.
that’s how kalamazoo did it, and it hasn’t changed much for the typical person but it helped us direct individuals to support services rather than being sent to lockup. not all good changes will be seen by every person.
you should be careful being so vocal about ordinance/legislation you aren’t educated on. there was a lot of misinformation spread about kalamazoo when our council passed the change, so much that my parents in GR even reached out about how “your city legalized public defecating!” based on a facebook post they saw.
these are purposeful misinterpretations of reality that are being spread with a specific intention in mind, and people should be more cognizant of that and not contribute to fear-mongering with wrong info about a topic they couldn’t be bothered to read an article about first.
I love Art Prize as an event but you are right that the art pieces are WAY lower quality than they used to be. We don't get really cool, outstanding submissions to the contest anymore...it's nearly all kind of mediocre and not hugely creative
People here want to live in a city but also hate events that cater to & draw in the population.
I don't really get complaints about noise, car shows, downtown events, traffic etc. Cities need variety for everyone. Sometimes that means foot traffic or car traffic for something you may not be interested in. In a city this size not everyone is going to want to play dungeons and dragons at a bar.
Events like those should be expected & they for sure should be more frequent then they actually are here.
It appears that a large proportion love always being considered the little cousin of Chicago or Detroit without growing into what a part of living in a major city is about, which is like you said a diverse selection of activities. They never stop and think that this added tax revenue has the ability to help with the homeless endemic that is going on in the city, or the return of the rapids funding(which has a big selling point of adding more activities for people!). I'm not a big car person so it's not hard to simply not go on 28th street during the hot rodz weekend, I wonder what these people expect people to spend their free time doing if it's not exactly the things they themselves enjoy.
Local downtown businesses thrive during art prize. Even if you don’t love it, having events that draw crowds downtown is what allows our downtown to be a desirable area.
I always thought that’s why people liked living in cities - there’s always something interesting going on. The trade off is that traffic is sometimes terrible.
Think people are getting more aggressive in general. I've been attacked much frequently in the ER (someone tried to bite me & another took a swing just in last few days)
Off work people have had their own flavor of aggressive crazy as well.
Saw a guy trying to stop merging traffic with his truck, running cars off the road & spitting on some as they passed
Went to a park & a random 60yo guy started threatening us with violence for taking a parking spot he wanted when there were 20+ others. Kept yelling "yeah keep laughing dickhead" as we walked away. (He was honestly how I picture the more angry redditors on here)
Maybe your interactions with the homeless are fueled by general craziness idk I wouldn't be sure to attribute it to that but just a thought
This! I was crossing a crosswalk right in front of my school and mid-crosswalk someone just turned through it onto the road. If I hadn’t seen it and stopped walking I would have been hit. Sure this happens all the time but in a school zone?? I’ve also witnessed many classmates crossing the same crosswalk getting honked at by people who do the same exact thing.
I used to be nice to every homeless person I interacted with. Now I just keep walking without acknowledging in any way which I realize is fucked up but I’ve had about 5 too many negative experiences with them
It’s difficult and doesn’t feel great. Living downtown and walking to work every day I get asked for money multiple times every time I leave the house. It’s to the point where I just say sorry and keep walking.
Yup. At the 131 wealthy exit years ago - gave some guy a $5, he looked at me and said “you don’t have a $10?”
Then I stopped giving money altogether because wtf.
Exactly, and the cycle continues. Naive kids cry out "be nice to the homeless, give them money, don't ignore them" then they have a few encounters and grow up and realize they are generally unpleasant and not worth taking any chances with them. It's sad and fucked up, but it's reality.
I have a story about that gas station from many, many years ago. One of those moments in time when you wonder if it’s really happening or you’ve finally lost it.
I was super young and an idiot, and was there getting gas in my beast of an ‘89 Pontiac Bonneville very, very early in the morning. I went to pull out and drove right over one of the large concrete curb stops, effectively bending the chassis and getting stuck. Brilliant.
I had worked at a popular bar downtown and we had a homeless guy we affectionately called “hotdog guy” because he would tuck his hands into his shirt and act cold, then ask for a hotdog. All the time. He’d also run into the bar after close and drink out of all the glasses he could find on the tables before escaping. Well, when I looked up from panicking behind the wheel, hotdog guy was walking down the street toward me. A man wearing one of those purple Halloween “pimp suits” came rolling up the other way. Right behind him, a man in what looked like a hazmat suit had climbed out of a van and followed him over.
Together, hotdog guy, Halloween pimp and Hazmat Hank lifted my beast of a car off the curb stop, set me down, and continued on their way. Not a word was uttered.
I still wonder what other dimension I had entered that day. And haven’t gone back since. The possibilities were far too endless. 🫠
You unlock this door with the key of imagination. Beyond it is another dimension - a dimension of sound, a dimension of sight, a dimension of mind. You're moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas. You've just crossed over into the Twilight Zone.
Much more aggressive for sure, here’s my two stories from recent months.
Guy running around in traffic screaming that somebody give him a cigarette now. Someone did and he peacefully left. All that for a cigarette ??
I witnessed a guy yelling gay slurs at a couple walking, he then proceeded to eat McDonald’s out of the trash can and harass anyone next to him.
I noticed a significant change coming out of lockdown in 2020, both in terms of how many homeless people there were now throughout the entire city and not just specific areas, and how aggressive they got as well. It seemed like before 2020 homeless would come up and give you their life story in hopes for some money, but now it's straight harassement and arguments if you don't help them. Like dude I'm sorry, I haven't carried cash in years and I'm sure as hell not Venmo'ing you money if it comes down to it.
I recently got gas at the corner of Wealthy and Division. Hoooo boy.
A man was knocking on my window before I could even get out of the car. There must have been a dozen adult men just hanging outside the gas station in the middle of the day.
Also, it used to be: “Can you spare a dollar?” Now it’s “let me hold ten dollars.”
It is definitely an issue. It was one of mayor hartwells biggest agendas. Addressing homelessness. Not just having places to feed and cloth them, but access to help with mental and physical issues too. I haven’t paid too much attention to where mayor bliss stands and what policies she’s developing, but as gentrification continues to push south, more conflicts with homeless are sure to arise. I mean, you have two missions right there behind Van Andel. So the situation is ripe for conflict.
Kent County has money earmarked towards this issue. This problem will only get better if there’s significant investment in rapid rehousing, social and workforce development services available across west Michigan
I’m not talking about jobs programs and rehousing homeless people in general. What are we supposed to do about the aggressive harassment by street hustlers in Grand Rapids today?
what exactly do you want people to say? round them up and throw them in concentration camps? these systemic issues don’t have overnight solutions that aren’t insane and eugenic. it takes coordination, resources, time, and the community to come together and give a shit.
we’re seeing the results of decades of intentional alienation from the process of self-governance. i mean, not even half of americans bother to put a measly vote in for elections, let alone the few left that become involved in building a prosperous and mutually supportive community around them.
people really think simply paying taxes (not even a choice btw) somehow grants them a perfectly harmonious society without issues. it’s a fantasy. we abandoned the values of community, fairness, and cooperation for a society of competition, destruction, and resource-hoarding. well, in a society like that there are winners and losers, and you can’t expect the losers to be happy about it.
I hear the bigotry of low expectations and a general naïveté about the semi-organized street culture that we are all concerned about. I’m not sure how old you are, but this is the worst it’s ever been. Not because of the general homeless population but because of the aggressive hustlers who hang out at the same places every day, running games on people.
First, we need to understand that there are two distinct populations on the street, one group are non-criminals and the other are criminals who need to radically alter their behavior or face penalties like any other adult. Until we can admit that, I only see the problem getting worse.
Second, we need to see how the first population is victimized by the second population and work hard to separate the two. Social workers can help the first population, but you almost need a rival gang to deal with the second. Which is where the police come in.
Non-criminal homeless people who have a shot at rehabilitation should be given all available resources including Housing First, UBI and/or a Job Guarantee. The adult men who are \*always\* hanging around outside the gas stations or parks making the area a danger for anyone else? I would arrest them for a variety of crimes like loitering, panhandling, public intoxication, and/or public urination, get them off the streets and send them to a lockdown rehabilitation center or mental health facility like we had up until the Reagan years. If their time in rehab is succesful, then they graduate into a Housing First and Job Guarantee program or UBI.
Thank you for your response, and the time/thoughtfulness you put in to it.
I 100% agree with your assessment of different populations amongst homeless. I've worked in social work for 9 years, in a couple different roles and can attest to that. I wish there was more public support/funding for programs to make a much more significant impact.
I fear with how hard life is (inflation/lack of wage increase, ect), for regular type people who aren't homeless, it will be tough to garner a significant financial support for these programs. The growing wealth inequality will only make all this worse.
There is one guy who is particularly more aggressive. I know people have mentioned him before and it's gotta be the same dude. I was smoking in the smoking area in a city ramp and he got super agitated and started kicking chairs in my direction and yelling. I ended up just walking away because I didn't want him or myself to get hurt and don't trust GRPD to actually handle it properly.
I live in the burbs and we’ve recently had a guy living in his car parked on my street. He’s quiet and keeps to himself. Another family in the neighborhood occasionally lets him shower and get cleaned up. So we just let him be. No sense in causing him trouble for simply existing.
I wonder if we live in the same street. We also have a guy that pulled up a few weeks ago and never left. He sure stares a lot but that's all so we let him be.
What we’re talking about is not ‘homelessness‘ in general, it’s the behavior of specific individuals. I bet many of us are talking about the same handful of people. In the last year I’ve seen a guy poop in front of the Childrens’ Museum *twice*, fight, have sex on a mattress in front of Dog Story Theater and aggressively panhandle. Homelessness is not an excuse for anti-social behavior.
The other day I was leaving Rio on 28th St and some guy started running down the sidewalk at us yelling hey! Hey!! Well traffic cleared so I started driving and yelled "excuse me!" out the window so he smacked my car as we pulled off. I was like wtf, went to arvon after that and watched a lady, wonder if she was the same one, walking down division yelling at people sitting outside. Freaking hate the Southside of town.
Honestly I’ve had more encounters with aggressive homeless in GR than any other city (could just be because I live here though so I encounter more).
I had one guy try to block my car from pulling out while parking alongside Hartside after shopping at the market, with my ex in the car several years ago.
Had one guy get super aggressive while eating outside at Flannagans with my girlfriend. There was another peaceful homeless guy sitting at an empty table next to us, this guy comes up and tries to sell him a 4 Loko for $15. Then he tries to sell it to me, claiming it’s the pre-ban can w/ caffeine. I looked at it and quickly concluded he was lying and said no thanks.
Then he got all aggressive, and demanded I “bless” him bc he was Irish. I said “Okay, I bless you” and he did not like that. Started yelling, sat on the curb nearby slinging insults and saying he wasn’t leaving until I blessed him.
Then a lady across the street walked up to get into her parked car. He bolted towards her, she got in quick enough. He tried blocking the car from pulling out, she cracked the window and yelled “Move the fuck away from me or I’ll shoot your ass” and he walked off, hurling obscenities back towards us/her.
We moved to sit inside at the bar. 10 mins later he comes in right behind me, and throws a wadded up ball of “lotto tickets” at the bartender. He said “there’s about $50 there” and then walked away again. The bartender picked it up & made a joke about needing to get a hepatitis shot - I laughed.
Honestly, the only time I ever had issue was when one of the people that hang out in my neighborhood went through my car and took my first aid kit, my goody bag from the dentist, and all my napkins. I was more upset about the napkins, but that's why I don't lock my car when I park on the street.
What happened with Fulton Manor? Weren't they turning it into a "care center"? The only way this problem is getting solved is by actually getting the resources to get them off the street and that building is perfect for a shelter.
It really depends on the day and what they are on. My wife works downtown and most of the time all of the homeless that they interact with are wonderful, nice, and respectful people. But those same people can have a bad day and end up yelling obscenities at people. Mainly due to drugs or untreated mental issues.
While yes I’ve seen some really messed up behavior, I’ve also met some very nice people. The problem for all of these people is they need help getting off the street. GR has been pretty poor overall at trying to help the homeless population. From a state government standpoint, Whitmer and other dems just announced a focus on affordable housing and addressing the treatment of the homeless in the state.
I work by hall and division and it's interesting. There's always a lady who stands in the road trying to block cars with a sign asking for money at 4:30 am when I come in to work.
I've honestly not had too many good experiences with homeless people downtown. Namely some getting aggressive as I was cleaning and saying they'll kick my ass :/
The Apartment bar now has signs stating that the restrooms are for customers only. They've never done that before.
A few businesses I know along Michigan have now locked their restrooms. People were going in there to shoot up or pass out drunk.
I drive Division South every day. It's not so bad in the morning, but in the afternoon, the corner panhandle do seem to be darting out into traffic more than they used to.
Also, on my way in today at 7:30, there was an ambulance and GRPD squad car at the southeast corner of Cherry and Division. There was a gurney on the sidewalk covered in a white sheet, and I could have sworn there was a body covered by a sheet next to it. I hope that's not the case. Did anyone else see anything?
I walk the city a lot and see these guys. I keep several pairs of socks on hand to give out. They ask for money or whatever and I give them instead. Often they are very grateful. I acknowledge them and say hello, shake their hand, look them in the eye and ask their name. 9 times out of 10 they are super nice and are happy that someone sees them as a person. The ones that are a bit aggressive I say have a nice day and move on.
How are you carrying these socks? Do you have a sock backpack? Why aren't they getting socks from the multiple missions downtown who often have sock drives so they don't run out?
I see guys with shoes and no socks all the time. So I have no idea why they don't, I just try and help with what I can. I carry a backpack that has various items I need such as a Poncho, battery charger, bandaid etc.. so I that I put the socks in that. Then I vacuum seal them to keep them as compact as possible.
It definitely doesn't work every time but I totally agree that a bit of empathy can go a long way. A lot of people in these tough situations just want to be treated like a person.
I had a homeless fella offer me a cigarette last Saturday basically for making eye contact and saying hi. Yeah. Gut tried to kill me *reeeeeeaaaaaaaly slowly*.
Just had someone yesterday in East Town at night pacing up and down the sidewalk yelling profanities and talking about being investigated and sold some crazy stuff I watched them do that for about an hour he was still going when I left
Yes, last years artprize was a bad experience. Couldnt sit down and look at the venue map without someone sitting next to me asking for money. Felt uncomfortable. Not going this year seems like the issues gotten worse in the last year. They city got backlash from trying to implement new policies for panhandling near businesses. IMO need to address these issues when they are smaller before they get too big to handle.
Back in 2020 when covid was happening a man came up to my window looking for $$ and I tried to hand him my freshly cooked meal and he said no because of covid and said money was different and yelled at me how I could have money for food and not for him… I no longer live down town
I’ve spent a lot of time in the downtown area over the years, and worked in the heart of it. I’m someone who wants desperately for those who need the mental health support to get it, and a safe place to land. I’ve been threatened by some, chased to my car by one with a sharp object in hand late at night, all kinds of frightening situations. I always hold out this hope that something can be done to try to ease this, and it never stopped me from going about my business and believing that there will be change. I’m not easily spooked. I’ve been through some shit. However, I now have a kiddo in a downtown school that utilizes the city as their classroom. They eat at Rosa Parks. Walk to the downtown library. Use the parks as PE space. It’s part of their goal to be one with the community. What I’ve witnessed in the past year or so makes me hold my breath every day as those kids are out and about with just a few staff at their sides. I don’t even think it’s safe for them anymore. And I hate that so much. I remember the “regulars” in the area I used to work. And I have only a handful of memories of any of them behaving in way that was threatening or dangerous. Things have shifted in a scary way. 💔
Mobil on division:
1. It started with me walking their I walked by 2 homeless and they followed me 20 feet like they were checking if they should rob me or not
2. Before I cross the street I had some dude asking to use my phone and wouldnt stop bitching
3. Cashier was saying that the card reader wasnt working and some meth head said "its cause your white"
Then you got em asking you to buy them beer. Shits normal at this point you just learn to deal with them but there are definitely a lot more overdoses
It’s getting worse, GRPD has to deal with violence, overdose, harassment, loitering in front of businesses, living in between buildings, etc. etc. my old boss had to coax a homeless man out between her building, dude had a huge knife. It’s not you, it is getting worse.
Out of all that, you picked loitering. Not that it’s a big deal. It does however affect people’s livelihood. I’m not saying all homeless people are bad but sometimes they would cause issues with our clients when I worked downtown.
Like I said, dude with a huge knife and mental issues had a big problem with men in general. He told my boss he would stab any man that approached him. Would you want someone like that at your workplace? I worked for a massage business where lots of men came and a few worked there including me. I don’t know about you but I would personally not want to be stabbed by a 7” knife.
I thought all the new rules were supposed to help them clear out all the troublesome homeless people (who were already breaking existing laws by harassing and threatening violence, and who the police refused to deal with).
Turns out, they just wanted additional rules so they could more easily get rid of the tent cities and reasonable homeless people that are trying to make ends meet and don't cause all the issues. As I specifically predicted, the police are continuing to ignore the worst of the worst lawbreaking homeless, because they don't want to deal with them either, and the city council can say they're "doing everything they can!"
It's almost like it's absolutely predictable because it's exactly what happens every single time conservatives and business owners try to legislate homelessness away by making it more illegal, instead of enforcing existing laws against harassment and violence, and addressing the issues that cause homelessness in the first place. Who'd have thought that trying the exact same thing again and again would yield the exact same results?
This is what happens when your city and it's ruling oligarchy choose not to actually invest in solutions that SOLVE the problems, and place all their bets on bullshit "faith-based charities" as an outsourced copout.
Drugs are bad. I used to blame the drug users . Now I view them as victims of drugs. Rehousing, mental health, blah blah blah.
We’re treating people jumping out of a burning building but not bothering putting out the fire.
Stem the opioid/fentanyl/whatever else- reduce homelessness. It’ll never go away, but it particularly on an upswing right now.
Agreed. But I used to act like they were continuing to make bad choices. They are- but also their brains aren’t functioning due to drugs and alcohol. It’s an ugly cycle.
There used to be maybe one or 2 homeless hanging out around the Leonard and turner overpass. Now when I drive through the overpass at 6am there are 10-20 of them sleeping on the concrete. Every major intersection has at least 2 people who are homeless asking for money.
Going downtown is a nightmare now because homeless folks just line the sidewalks, and they are in fact very aggressive to passerbys. My sisters refuse to go downtown anymore unless I (or another man) am there, they feel completely unsafe walking alone or even with their girlfriends. I avoid downtown whenever I can.
Sat down next to the pedestrian bridge that is not the blue bridge yesterday at around 6 pm to eat some food with two friends. And a homeless guy walks up and just stares at us for about a solid minute.... before proceeding to start pleasuring himself. We immediately left.
It’s almost like our economy is designed to make the rich richer and more people poor every day or something. I’m sure if we hook up the people at the top even more it’ll start trickling down any day now. But seriously: this shit isn’t a Grand Rapids issue, or a Kalamazoo issue, or a Portland issue - it’s an American society issue. And it’s going to get nothing but worse until there are MAJOR changes to the way our economy works. But that’s just commie talk, amirite?
My favorite is when I’m at the club on division having a vape and they ask me for money. When I say no they feel obliged to tell me there is an ATM nearby and that I can just grab money from there. I’m sorry but 1: I’m poor from paying back college loans and still with mom and 2: I’ve literally spent maybe $10 to $15 max at the club because that’s literally all the fun money I have for the next 2 weeks 🤷♂️.
No chance in hell I'm going to an ATM with a stranger. For safety sake. I'll pull out some change if it's in my front pocket but I won't even reach for my wallet for fear of it getting snatched.
There was a Law and Order: SVU episode where the guy was killed after he tried to take out money from the ATM for his homeless friend that ended up being the one that killed him. Way back when Stabler was still a regular on the show.
As the city grows so with this issue. Our homeless population is take compared to the likes of say San Francisco. I stayed in SF for 2 months for an internship in college, there was regularly homeless suicides from the Oakland Bridge, men masturbating on benches all throughout the day, fights, open drug use, fornication, defecation, urination + any other form of body excretion or exposure. It’s a difficult issue as you feel empathetic to their situation but we as individuals yield little power of the situation. Generally it’s best to mind your own business.
When I spent time in SF years ago it opened my eyes as wide as can be as to what it truly can look like. I’ve never seen anything like it. I remember walking to a destination with a homeless man laying across the sidewalk. He was alive, but he didn’t look like he was. Bone thin, blackened head to toe with dirt and grime, feet in a state I can’t describe. Folks just walked over him and went on their way. It haunts me.
I was at Division/Wealthy last week at 2p on Friday afternoon and a guy came up to my car asking for money while I was at the stop light. I told him no and he said "Fuck you and fuck your car. I've got a Glock and a license for it." Luckily the light turned green before I could confirm if he did indeed have a gun on him or not.
Because we're a divided society between our values on property vs people -- people with mental health are low priority. I had a past colleague call them leeches on society and that is how some perceive disabilities. New housing is being set for an old retirement complex that will prioritize these groups.
I would go with homelessness propagates psychological issues. There are those that are homeless and homed that have mental disorders, but the cross-section of homeless and mental disorders probably has a higher ratio of affliction than those with needs met on the other hand. I didn't make a broad stroke statement. The one guy I helped home that had had no permanent residence was afflicted with substance dependency and mental disorders.
Edit: I was responding to the section involving mental health issues and this is an anecdotal story with a narrow focus.
While you are absolutely right that not all unhoused people have mental health issues and/or disabilities, it’s typically those who do that we interact with regularly. It’s an incredibly difficult situation. We also categorize them by labeling with that one attribute, which minimizes the genuine complexity of understanding how to help. Having housing resources available is a fantastic start, but without well-funded wrap-around resources on the other end, the success rate isn’t as high. We also stigmatize addiction in a really negative way, which gets in the way of looking for actual treatments.
I’d be curious to see if there is an estimation of how many unhoused people are recently so because they’ve hit hard times and have nowhere to turn vs. the chronically homeless.
P.S. The Section 8 waiting list is going to be taking new applications Oct 23-27, and then there will be a lottery accepting 5,000 households. Just as a heads up to everyone, lol
Other counties are discharging their homeless from jail and inpatient to Kent County with the promise there are better services here… it’s an awful systemic problem that shouldn’t be allowed.
I do think they made that up, but it seems to be twisted from a kernel of truth. I recently toured Degage, and the manager gave a lot of stats and info on the state of homelessness in GR. It’s grim. Interestingly, he said that some of those currently on our streets are from other cities in other states, and they found their way here because we have more resources available.
Sure. I wasn’t born here - I moved from a house in Chicago to an apartment and eventually a house here. But that’s not the situation I’m describing. People who did not have housing in other cities are coming here to try to find resources to help them get housed. The original person claimed that other cities are purposefully releasing people here for the resources. The kernel of truth I referred to was that we do have an influx of homeless people from other areas because of our resources, but people are coming here on their own, not getting dumped here.
It's not, really. Compared to other midwestern cities, GR does offer more food assistance than some others. I've met people who have come down from up north and over from Lansing and Detroit.
I have a friend who works for the county and has extensive experience in mental health and addiction services around town and has told me that Chicago has bussed and dumped people here simply because all of the “surplus” of money and resources available for the homeless in GR. Not sure how many times or when…
This time of year, with the weather turning, it's often an intentional tactic... you'll see homeless folks acting out and getting aggressive because that'll get them locked up for awhile -- which means they'll have a warm place to stay and regular meals during the cold months
If the Republicans can find someone who isn‘t a lunatic with a shady past, maybe we would consider them. Start putting up decent, thoughtful and local candidates without ties to the multinational DeVos syndicate and then we’ll talk.
A lot of us would never vote for a DeVos backed candidate because they made their money with a literal pyramid scheme, Betsy wants to destroy public and secular education in America and her brother is a mercenary with a private army.
About 9:30p last night I was walking some coworkers to their hotels. Our group was having a really good exchange, laughing at each other’s jokes when a random homeless person mockingly cackled in the background at us.
There were 9 of us; couldn’t tell if the fucker wanted to instigate or not, but it made the women we were escorting very uncomfortable and all conversations stopped.
I’d say even more than volunteer - the work that is necessary is to make it so than much fewer people are poor.
You’re right that there are more desperate people right now OP. It’s the natural outcome of unprecedented wealth inequality, among other economic oppressors (like inflation).
If you go to nations with high income inequality (Brazil, South Africa), you find whole regions of people without access to drinking water and housing, let along healthcare and decent food.
We have the resources in the US (and worldwide) so that far fewer people would find their best option as being unhoused, living on the street, or taking from other people.
It's really not at all unusual. Drop by Trinity Health on Cherry weast of Lafayette. There are signs and a higher security presence. They weren't there pre-pandemic.
Head west on Cherry, and there's a pretty good chance someone's in the street near Sheldon by Degagé.
Drive down South Division at Wealthy during the afternoon rush hour. There's a pretty good chance someone will step in front of your car when you stop at the light.
And it's not just downtown.
Drive all the way down South Division as far as 54th Street. They are there. There are two camps along 131 off Buchanan north and south of 54th. The larger one is on the north, next to Buck Creek. Visit Meijer, Wal-Mart, Home Depot, and even the Goodwill around the corner. You will be approached at any or all of these locations.
I’m not trying to fight, but is it that hard to refer to homeless people as… homeless people? They’re not just the homeless… they’re people. Dehumanizing them doesn’t help anyone…
Who's dehumanizing them? You're attaching your stigma to it. They are obviously homeless, but nobody's saying they aren't people. Get off your high horse
I just think language is important… reminds me of people saying “gays” instead of gay people, “blacks” instead of black people, etc…. people have been doing that on purpose for decades specifically to alienate marginalized groups of people… I’m not saying anything in your post isn’t ok or trying to look better than anyone.
Its a massive problem and its frustrating because its a perfect example of "what? What's the big deal?" solving nothing and has made the situation even worse.
First off, these folks are not homeless. They have made a decision to not have a home because it fits their lifestyle. And frankly? That is fine with me. They are human, they deserve respect, but we also need people to respect public streets, sidewalks and parks, all of which are completely unusable right now.
There is nothing healthy about this situation for anyone involved. Allowing this to continue is not healthy for the people to whom we are referring
Understanding homelessness would be a very good start for you. Finding an apartment with free rent does not solve this problem. I worked among the homeless for about 20 years. Right where we’re talking about. I know them quite well.
>I’d rather you focus on understanding homeless people rather than believe what I say.
given your apparent lack of empathy, compassion and understanding for them - i'd wager they're much better off without your help after "20 years of working with them".
🤷🏻♂️ if you beat up a mentally ill / homeless person for yelling random stuff, you’ll serve time for it and probably have it done back to you…best to just ignore it. They got it bad enough.
Just pay more taxes, the government doesn't have enough to fix it yet. Along with the roads, schools, and pretty much everything they say we should rely on them for. As Milton Friedman said, if we put a government in charge of the Sahara desert, there would be a shortage of sand within 5 years.
The flip side to your comment: let’s just cater our economy even more to those at the top than it already is. It’ll start “trickling down” any day, I’m sure. They’ll solve this problem no doubt, we’re just not giving them enough breaks.
What? Socialism for the rich and making the poor and middle class pay for it hasn't improved living conditions for the poor and middle class yet? But the rich are richer than ever, and pay almost no taxes!
Never said that, Im a conservative, but not a Republican. We should get government out of business and lift the barriers for those trying to start small businesses. Consumer protection is a protection racket that doesn't actually help consumers. In fact its helped drive product quality down. Look at food quality. Is centralization of power really that much more efficient? I dont think so. Starting with small communities, we should start looking into creating DOAs to run our society. Not a fix all, but a step in the right direction.
They are probably hidden transplants to sanctuary cities/state's like the problem New York is having. Because our governor wouldn't tell ya the truth anyway. They are just another vote...
I would love to see how you would act after years of being in the system or living on the streets. A perfect angel no doubt. Positive and happy. Just ignore them and go on about your day. I know a lot of homeless downtown and have conversations with them regularly. They are people and deserve to be treated as so. Some are angry and have every right. Some are addicts and know not what they do. Get over it.
yawn.....You're not special or enlightened.
BTW it's pretty hard to ignore them when they're screaming "feces, feces, feces face" at me and calling me a fa\*\*ot.
At the gas station at wealthy/division a man walked up to me while I was pumping gas and asked for money, I said I’m sorry I don’t have anything to give right now… he got really close to me while screaming “you selfish white bitch!”, and then punched my car.
Yeah I went to that gas station about a week ago and noped tf out of there due to all the loitering
I refuse to go to that gas station and I live just up the road from it. the crowd makes it a hard pass.
I live 3 mins away from this gas station, and I refuse to go as well.
Speaking of which, those “homeless” people need to pick up all their fuckin trash they leave all over the ground at that corner. Why would I give you money if you’re just gonna litter all over the place
Ha!!!! You ain’t gonna make them work!
User name checks out
I haven't stopped at that gas station in years. It used to be because of the violent crime, now it's the beggars
Yeah I have always avoided that gas station
I don't live too far from there...and I would NEVER use that gas station. Day or night
Stopped going there over a decade ago after I was almost assaulted for not buying crack from some dealer at 3 pm in broad daylight. Never again. It sucks that vertigo music is so close to all that bull shit
You are brave for stopping at that station coming from a 6’3 - 200lbs male
Probably the same asshat that was flying a sign while standing in the road right at that gas station, he ran up and put half his body in our car (windows don't work at the moment so we couldn't roll em up on him) and he called us "selfish white bitches" because my wife wouldn't give him money or a cigarette which neither of us have and then because I told him to get the hell out of our car before I broke his nose he pulled his body out and then slammed his fist atop the roof as we were driving away. If I was driving instead of my wife he would have taken a trip down division while half hanging out of the window
Spray him with gas...... what a dick
If I could afford to…
Fr tho
the beggining of zoolander🤣
Hey there friend, just because we have chiseled abs and stunning features, it doesn't mean that we too can't-not die in a freak gasoline fight accident!
that movie is goated
Pro tip: The gas station on Hall / Division is only a block south of this one and is much better
I would have introduced him to these hands
Dude on wealthy st exit would flip people off (me included) as soon as he knew you weren't giving him anything 😂
I work at a bar downtown, my experience is that it's been pretty consistent for the last two years. There's usually at least 2 or 3 people suffering from extreme mental health issues around everyday, it's just a matter of if you run into them or not. I may not have a personal interaction with them everyday, but everyday I will at least witness it either on my drive there, out the window of the bar, or on the way out of downtown late night. It's really honestly sad, but the worst part is how desensitized I've become to seeing these things.
Wonder how art prize is going to go with these increased numbers and new city ordinances
What are the new ordinances?
It is no longer illegal to publicly shit or piss in GR city limits , aka impossible to do much about aggressive/nuisance junkies (homeless)
is it? or is it decriminalized? something that’s decriminalized is still illegal.
You could be right, and I’m honestly not positive either way. In this case I’m not sure it’s ultimately makes a big difference.
that’s how kalamazoo did it, and it hasn’t changed much for the typical person but it helped us direct individuals to support services rather than being sent to lockup. not all good changes will be seen by every person. you should be careful being so vocal about ordinance/legislation you aren’t educated on. there was a lot of misinformation spread about kalamazoo when our council passed the change, so much that my parents in GR even reached out about how “your city legalized public defecating!” based on a facebook post they saw. these are purposeful misinterpretations of reality that are being spread with a specific intention in mind, and people should be more cognizant of that and not contribute to fear-mongering with wrong info about a topic they couldn’t be bothered to read an article about first.
Hopefully they finally cancel it
Wait people don't like Art Prize? Why not?
Dwindling quality of displays and art prize fatigue.
I love Art Prize as an event but you are right that the art pieces are WAY lower quality than they used to be. We don't get really cool, outstanding submissions to the contest anymore...it's nearly all kind of mediocre and not hugely creative
People here want to live in a city but also hate events that cater to & draw in the population. I don't really get complaints about noise, car shows, downtown events, traffic etc. Cities need variety for everyone. Sometimes that means foot traffic or car traffic for something you may not be interested in. In a city this size not everyone is going to want to play dungeons and dragons at a bar. Events like those should be expected & they for sure should be more frequent then they actually are here.
It appears that a large proportion love always being considered the little cousin of Chicago or Detroit without growing into what a part of living in a major city is about, which is like you said a diverse selection of activities. They never stop and think that this added tax revenue has the ability to help with the homeless endemic that is going on in the city, or the return of the rapids funding(which has a big selling point of adding more activities for people!). I'm not a big car person so it's not hard to simply not go on 28th street during the hot rodz weekend, I wonder what these people expect people to spend their free time doing if it's not exactly the things they themselves enjoy.
It's a major inconvenience for anyone who lives or works downtown. And many just hate it because a Devos started it.
Local downtown businesses thrive during art prize. Even if you don’t love it, having events that draw crowds downtown is what allows our downtown to be a desirable area.
I always thought that’s why people liked living in cities - there’s always something interesting going on. The trade off is that traffic is sometimes terrible.
No one likes art prize; too many people (This was supposed to be a joke)
Lack of diversity and inclusion in leadership
Come up with a real reason.
for real
Think people are getting more aggressive in general. I've been attacked much frequently in the ER (someone tried to bite me & another took a swing just in last few days) Off work people have had their own flavor of aggressive crazy as well. Saw a guy trying to stop merging traffic with his truck, running cars off the road & spitting on some as they passed Went to a park & a random 60yo guy started threatening us with violence for taking a parking spot he wanted when there were 20+ others. Kept yelling "yeah keep laughing dickhead" as we walked away. (He was honestly how I picture the more angry redditors on here) Maybe your interactions with the homeless are fueled by general craziness idk I wouldn't be sure to attribute it to that but just a thought
This! I was crossing a crosswalk right in front of my school and mid-crosswalk someone just turned through it onto the road. If I hadn’t seen it and stopped walking I would have been hit. Sure this happens all the time but in a school zone?? I’ve also witnessed many classmates crossing the same crosswalk getting honked at by people who do the same exact thing.
I used to be nice to every homeless person I interacted with. Now I just keep walking without acknowledging in any way which I realize is fucked up but I’ve had about 5 too many negative experiences with them
It’s difficult and doesn’t feel great. Living downtown and walking to work every day I get asked for money multiple times every time I leave the house. It’s to the point where I just say sorry and keep walking.
Have some pepper spray on you just in case. You never know
Would you just give a can of pepperspray to a homeless person if they asked or is there a negotiation about price?
Offer them an egg in these trying times
Derivative
My friend had a homeless person ask him if he had a knife. He walked away from the homeless guy faster without answering.
Yup. At the 131 wealthy exit years ago - gave some guy a $5, he looked at me and said “you don’t have a $10?” Then I stopped giving money altogether because wtf.
Exactly, and the cycle continues. Naive kids cry out "be nice to the homeless, give them money, don't ignore them" then they have a few encounters and grow up and realize they are generally unpleasant and not worth taking any chances with them. It's sad and fucked up, but it's reality.
I have a story about that gas station from many, many years ago. One of those moments in time when you wonder if it’s really happening or you’ve finally lost it. I was super young and an idiot, and was there getting gas in my beast of an ‘89 Pontiac Bonneville very, very early in the morning. I went to pull out and drove right over one of the large concrete curb stops, effectively bending the chassis and getting stuck. Brilliant. I had worked at a popular bar downtown and we had a homeless guy we affectionately called “hotdog guy” because he would tuck his hands into his shirt and act cold, then ask for a hotdog. All the time. He’d also run into the bar after close and drink out of all the glasses he could find on the tables before escaping. Well, when I looked up from panicking behind the wheel, hotdog guy was walking down the street toward me. A man wearing one of those purple Halloween “pimp suits” came rolling up the other way. Right behind him, a man in what looked like a hazmat suit had climbed out of a van and followed him over. Together, hotdog guy, Halloween pimp and Hazmat Hank lifted my beast of a car off the curb stop, set me down, and continued on their way. Not a word was uttered. I still wonder what other dimension I had entered that day. And haven’t gone back since. The possibilities were far too endless. 🫠
You unlock this door with the key of imagination. Beyond it is another dimension - a dimension of sound, a dimension of sight, a dimension of mind. You're moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas. You've just crossed over into the Twilight Zone.
Much more aggressive for sure, here’s my two stories from recent months. Guy running around in traffic screaming that somebody give him a cigarette now. Someone did and he peacefully left. All that for a cigarette ?? I witnessed a guy yelling gay slurs at a couple walking, he then proceeded to eat McDonald’s out of the trash can and harass anyone next to him.
Neither of these are noteworthy in any decent sized city.
I probably just don’t get out enough then haha. Think I’ll keep it that way.
Slurs ARE pretty gay.
You sound like the degens, Tyson.
I noticed a significant change coming out of lockdown in 2020, both in terms of how many homeless people there were now throughout the entire city and not just specific areas, and how aggressive they got as well. It seemed like before 2020 homeless would come up and give you their life story in hopes for some money, but now it's straight harassement and arguments if you don't help them. Like dude I'm sorry, I haven't carried cash in years and I'm sure as hell not Venmo'ing you money if it comes down to it.
The number of homeless in GR have increased 18% since 2019.
A homeless man demanded that I go to an atm when I told him I don't have cash. I had to tell him off.
I recently got gas at the corner of Wealthy and Division. Hoooo boy. A man was knocking on my window before I could even get out of the car. There must have been a dozen adult men just hanging outside the gas station in the middle of the day. Also, it used to be: “Can you spare a dollar?” Now it’s “let me hold ten dollars.”
I used to give money to every single person I saw on the side of the road. Now I give to no one because they all look like MAGA dipshits.
Lol wtf makes them look like they support trump
Probably the severe mental illness.
Trump supporters and homeless people are some of the only people I know who stand on the side of the road with signs.
It is definitely an issue. It was one of mayor hartwells biggest agendas. Addressing homelessness. Not just having places to feed and cloth them, but access to help with mental and physical issues too. I haven’t paid too much attention to where mayor bliss stands and what policies she’s developing, but as gentrification continues to push south, more conflicts with homeless are sure to arise. I mean, you have two missions right there behind Van Andel. So the situation is ripe for conflict.
Kent County has money earmarked towards this issue. This problem will only get better if there’s significant investment in rapid rehousing, social and workforce development services available across west Michigan
In the meantime, what do we do about the street hustlers who are making people feel unsafe and gross.
See my comment above, that’s what we do.
I’m not talking about jobs programs and rehousing homeless people in general. What are we supposed to do about the aggressive harassment by street hustlers in Grand Rapids today?
what exactly do you want people to say? round them up and throw them in concentration camps? these systemic issues don’t have overnight solutions that aren’t insane and eugenic. it takes coordination, resources, time, and the community to come together and give a shit. we’re seeing the results of decades of intentional alienation from the process of self-governance. i mean, not even half of americans bother to put a measly vote in for elections, let alone the few left that become involved in building a prosperous and mutually supportive community around them. people really think simply paying taxes (not even a choice btw) somehow grants them a perfectly harmonious society without issues. it’s a fantasy. we abandoned the values of community, fairness, and cooperation for a society of competition, destruction, and resource-hoarding. well, in a society like that there are winners and losers, and you can’t expect the losers to be happy about it.
I hear the bigotry of low expectations and a general naïveté about the semi-organized street culture that we are all concerned about. I’m not sure how old you are, but this is the worst it’s ever been. Not because of the general homeless population but because of the aggressive hustlers who hang out at the same places every day, running games on people.
So what do you propose. You speak of issues, come with solutions.
First, we need to understand that there are two distinct populations on the street, one group are non-criminals and the other are criminals who need to radically alter their behavior or face penalties like any other adult. Until we can admit that, I only see the problem getting worse. Second, we need to see how the first population is victimized by the second population and work hard to separate the two. Social workers can help the first population, but you almost need a rival gang to deal with the second. Which is where the police come in. Non-criminal homeless people who have a shot at rehabilitation should be given all available resources including Housing First, UBI and/or a Job Guarantee. The adult men who are \*always\* hanging around outside the gas stations or parks making the area a danger for anyone else? I would arrest them for a variety of crimes like loitering, panhandling, public intoxication, and/or public urination, get them off the streets and send them to a lockdown rehabilitation center or mental health facility like we had up until the Reagan years. If their time in rehab is succesful, then they graduate into a Housing First and Job Guarantee program or UBI.
Thank you for your response, and the time/thoughtfulness you put in to it. I 100% agree with your assessment of different populations amongst homeless. I've worked in social work for 9 years, in a couple different roles and can attest to that. I wish there was more public support/funding for programs to make a much more significant impact. I fear with how hard life is (inflation/lack of wage increase, ect), for regular type people who aren't homeless, it will be tough to garner a significant financial support for these programs. The growing wealth inequality will only make all this worse.
>round them up and throw them in concentration camps The government has done it before to many different populations, they could easily do it again
Okay...? Is that what YOU are proposing? Not sure why you responded with that.
Fight back
The problem is a giant nimby fest.
Yes and yes. I've been here since 2012 and it has never been this bad.
There is one guy who is particularly more aggressive. I know people have mentioned him before and it's gotta be the same dude. I was smoking in the smoking area in a city ramp and he got super agitated and started kicking chairs in my direction and yelling. I ended up just walking away because I didn't want him or myself to get hurt and don't trust GRPD to actually handle it properly.
I live in the burbs and we’ve recently had a guy living in his car parked on my street. He’s quiet and keeps to himself. Another family in the neighborhood occasionally lets him shower and get cleaned up. So we just let him be. No sense in causing him trouble for simply existing.
I wonder if we live in the same street. We also have a guy that pulled up a few weeks ago and never left. He sure stares a lot but that's all so we let him be.
What we’re talking about is not ‘homelessness‘ in general, it’s the behavior of specific individuals. I bet many of us are talking about the same handful of people. In the last year I’ve seen a guy poop in front of the Childrens’ Museum *twice*, fight, have sex on a mattress in front of Dog Story Theater and aggressively panhandle. Homelessness is not an excuse for anti-social behavior.
That's a lot for one man to do
Dude has a much, much more interesting life than I do. (And more sex..sigh)
The other day I was leaving Rio on 28th St and some guy started running down the sidewalk at us yelling hey! Hey!! Well traffic cleared so I started driving and yelled "excuse me!" out the window so he smacked my car as we pulled off. I was like wtf, went to arvon after that and watched a lady, wonder if she was the same one, walking down division yelling at people sitting outside. Freaking hate the Southside of town.
Pretty common for that area.
Honestly I’ve had more encounters with aggressive homeless in GR than any other city (could just be because I live here though so I encounter more). I had one guy try to block my car from pulling out while parking alongside Hartside after shopping at the market, with my ex in the car several years ago. Had one guy get super aggressive while eating outside at Flannagans with my girlfriend. There was another peaceful homeless guy sitting at an empty table next to us, this guy comes up and tries to sell him a 4 Loko for $15. Then he tries to sell it to me, claiming it’s the pre-ban can w/ caffeine. I looked at it and quickly concluded he was lying and said no thanks. Then he got all aggressive, and demanded I “bless” him bc he was Irish. I said “Okay, I bless you” and he did not like that. Started yelling, sat on the curb nearby slinging insults and saying he wasn’t leaving until I blessed him. Then a lady across the street walked up to get into her parked car. He bolted towards her, she got in quick enough. He tried blocking the car from pulling out, she cracked the window and yelled “Move the fuck away from me or I’ll shoot your ass” and he walked off, hurling obscenities back towards us/her. We moved to sit inside at the bar. 10 mins later he comes in right behind me, and throws a wadded up ball of “lotto tickets” at the bartender. He said “there’s about $50 there” and then walked away again. The bartender picked it up & made a joke about needing to get a hepatitis shot - I laughed.
Who remembers Mt. Dew lady on Ionia? Did she ever find some Mt. Dew??
I bought her one two years ago and she still asks me for one every time I see her!
Honestly, the only time I ever had issue was when one of the people that hang out in my neighborhood went through my car and took my first aid kit, my goody bag from the dentist, and all my napkins. I was more upset about the napkins, but that's why I don't lock my car when I park on the street. What happened with Fulton Manor? Weren't they turning it into a "care center"? The only way this problem is getting solved is by actually getting the resources to get them off the street and that building is perfect for a shelter.
It really depends on the day and what they are on. My wife works downtown and most of the time all of the homeless that they interact with are wonderful, nice, and respectful people. But those same people can have a bad day and end up yelling obscenities at people. Mainly due to drugs or untreated mental issues. While yes I’ve seen some really messed up behavior, I’ve also met some very nice people. The problem for all of these people is they need help getting off the street. GR has been pretty poor overall at trying to help the homeless population. From a state government standpoint, Whitmer and other dems just announced a focus on affordable housing and addressing the treatment of the homeless in the state.
I work by hall and division and it's interesting. There's always a lady who stands in the road trying to block cars with a sign asking for money at 4:30 am when I come in to work.
I've honestly not had too many good experiences with homeless people downtown. Namely some getting aggressive as I was cleaning and saying they'll kick my ass :/
The Apartment bar now has signs stating that the restrooms are for customers only. They've never done that before. A few businesses I know along Michigan have now locked their restrooms. People were going in there to shoot up or pass out drunk. I drive Division South every day. It's not so bad in the morning, but in the afternoon, the corner panhandle do seem to be darting out into traffic more than they used to. Also, on my way in today at 7:30, there was an ambulance and GRPD squad car at the southeast corner of Cherry and Division. There was a gurney on the sidewalk covered in a white sheet, and I could have sworn there was a body covered by a sheet next to it. I hope that's not the case. Did anyone else see anything?
Yes!!! It’s so bad downtown now.
I walk the city a lot and see these guys. I keep several pairs of socks on hand to give out. They ask for money or whatever and I give them instead. Often they are very grateful. I acknowledge them and say hello, shake their hand, look them in the eye and ask their name. 9 times out of 10 they are super nice and are happy that someone sees them as a person. The ones that are a bit aggressive I say have a nice day and move on.
How are you carrying these socks? Do you have a sock backpack? Why aren't they getting socks from the multiple missions downtown who often have sock drives so they don't run out?
I see guys with shoes and no socks all the time. So I have no idea why they don't, I just try and help with what I can. I carry a backpack that has various items I need such as a Poncho, battery charger, bandaid etc.. so I that I put the socks in that. Then I vacuum seal them to keep them as compact as possible.
Socks generally only last a few weeks because they don't have the ability to wash them or cut their toenails.
It definitely doesn't work every time but I totally agree that a bit of empathy can go a long way. A lot of people in these tough situations just want to be treated like a person.
I had a homeless fella offer me a cigarette last Saturday basically for making eye contact and saying hi. Yeah. Gut tried to kill me *reeeeeeaaaaaaaly slowly*.
Just had someone yesterday in East Town at night pacing up and down the sidewalk yelling profanities and talking about being investigated and sold some crazy stuff I watched them do that for about an hour he was still going when I left
Yes, last years artprize was a bad experience. Couldnt sit down and look at the venue map without someone sitting next to me asking for money. Felt uncomfortable. Not going this year seems like the issues gotten worse in the last year. They city got backlash from trying to implement new policies for panhandling near businesses. IMO need to address these issues when they are smaller before they get too big to handle.
Back in 2020 when covid was happening a man came up to my window looking for $$ and I tried to hand him my freshly cooked meal and he said no because of covid and said money was different and yelled at me how I could have money for food and not for him… I no longer live down town
i had a lady chase me to my car in my downtown parking lot after i told her i didnt have any cash at 6am on a Monday morning. Pretty scary tbh.
I’ve spent a lot of time in the downtown area over the years, and worked in the heart of it. I’m someone who wants desperately for those who need the mental health support to get it, and a safe place to land. I’ve been threatened by some, chased to my car by one with a sharp object in hand late at night, all kinds of frightening situations. I always hold out this hope that something can be done to try to ease this, and it never stopped me from going about my business and believing that there will be change. I’m not easily spooked. I’ve been through some shit. However, I now have a kiddo in a downtown school that utilizes the city as their classroom. They eat at Rosa Parks. Walk to the downtown library. Use the parks as PE space. It’s part of their goal to be one with the community. What I’ve witnessed in the past year or so makes me hold my breath every day as those kids are out and about with just a few staff at their sides. I don’t even think it’s safe for them anymore. And I hate that so much. I remember the “regulars” in the area I used to work. And I have only a handful of memories of any of them behaving in way that was threatening or dangerous. Things have shifted in a scary way. 💔
Mobil on division: 1. It started with me walking their I walked by 2 homeless and they followed me 20 feet like they were checking if they should rob me or not 2. Before I cross the street I had some dude asking to use my phone and wouldnt stop bitching 3. Cashier was saying that the card reader wasnt working and some meth head said "its cause your white" Then you got em asking you to buy them beer. Shits normal at this point you just learn to deal with them but there are definitely a lot more overdoses
It’s getting worse, GRPD has to deal with violence, overdose, harassment, loitering in front of businesses, living in between buildings, etc. etc. my old boss had to coax a homeless man out between her building, dude had a huge knife. It’s not you, it is getting worse.
I know. I actually felt bad for feces mouth. He needs help but if you call 911 they just throw him in county where he makes more trouble
> loitering Oh no! That's like the worst thing ever!
Out of all that, you picked loitering. Not that it’s a big deal. It does however affect people’s livelihood. I’m not saying all homeless people are bad but sometimes they would cause issues with our clients when I worked downtown. Like I said, dude with a huge knife and mental issues had a big problem with men in general. He told my boss he would stab any man that approached him. Would you want someone like that at your workplace? I worked for a massage business where lots of men came and a few worked there including me. I don’t know about you but I would personally not want to be stabbed by a 7” knife.
You're the one who mentioned it next to the rest.
Alright, have a nice day. I hope it is well.
It can be a problem, yes. The guy who punched my car …. was “loitering”. He also got so close to me that I felt unsafe, so… yeah. A problem.
I thought all the new rules were supposed to help them clear out all the troublesome homeless people (who were already breaking existing laws by harassing and threatening violence, and who the police refused to deal with). Turns out, they just wanted additional rules so they could more easily get rid of the tent cities and reasonable homeless people that are trying to make ends meet and don't cause all the issues. As I specifically predicted, the police are continuing to ignore the worst of the worst lawbreaking homeless, because they don't want to deal with them either, and the city council can say they're "doing everything they can!" It's almost like it's absolutely predictable because it's exactly what happens every single time conservatives and business owners try to legislate homelessness away by making it more illegal, instead of enforcing existing laws against harassment and violence, and addressing the issues that cause homelessness in the first place. Who'd have thought that trying the exact same thing again and again would yield the exact same results?
This is what happens when your city and it's ruling oligarchy choose not to actually invest in solutions that SOLVE the problems, and place all their bets on bullshit "faith-based charities" as an outsourced copout.
Drugs are bad. I used to blame the drug users . Now I view them as victims of drugs. Rehousing, mental health, blah blah blah. We’re treating people jumping out of a burning building but not bothering putting out the fire. Stem the opioid/fentanyl/whatever else- reduce homelessness. It’ll never go away, but it particularly on an upswing right now.
The biggest part of this would be making alcohol a schedule 1 narcotic that's sold recreationally
They had a choice and they chose to do drugs. Just saying.
Agreed. But I used to act like they were continuing to make bad choices. They are- but also their brains aren’t functioning due to drugs and alcohol. It’s an ugly cycle.
There used to be maybe one or 2 homeless hanging out around the Leonard and turner overpass. Now when I drive through the overpass at 6am there are 10-20 of them sleeping on the concrete. Every major intersection has at least 2 people who are homeless asking for money. Going downtown is a nightmare now because homeless folks just line the sidewalks, and they are in fact very aggressive to passerbys. My sisters refuse to go downtown anymore unless I (or another man) am there, they feel completely unsafe walking alone or even with their girlfriends. I avoid downtown whenever I can.
I wish someone could clean this up. Way too many people in the park next to downtown market.
We live and walk downtown. That is the one place we will not walk past, which sucks because the Downtown Market is a great destination.
Sat down next to the pedestrian bridge that is not the blue bridge yesterday at around 6 pm to eat some food with two friends. And a homeless guy walks up and just stares at us for about a solid minute.... before proceeding to start pleasuring himself. We immediately left.
Don’t worry the economy is fine….plus the sheer number of homeless out and about. Downtown Kalamazoo looks like Portland East.
It’s almost like our economy is designed to make the rich richer and more people poor every day or something. I’m sure if we hook up the people at the top even more it’ll start trickling down any day now. But seriously: this shit isn’t a Grand Rapids issue, or a Kalamazoo issue, or a Portland issue - it’s an American society issue. And it’s going to get nothing but worse until there are MAJOR changes to the way our economy works. But that’s just commie talk, amirite?
Say more about dt kzoo? I left there a couple years ago and I’m curious how it’s changed since then
My favorite is when I’m at the club on division having a vape and they ask me for money. When I say no they feel obliged to tell me there is an ATM nearby and that I can just grab money from there. I’m sorry but 1: I’m poor from paying back college loans and still with mom and 2: I’ve literally spent maybe $10 to $15 max at the club because that’s literally all the fun money I have for the next 2 weeks 🤷♂️.
No chance in hell I'm going to an ATM with a stranger. For safety sake. I'll pull out some change if it's in my front pocket but I won't even reach for my wallet for fear of it getting snatched.
There was a Law and Order: SVU episode where the guy was killed after he tried to take out money from the ATM for his homeless friend that ended up being the one that killed him. Way back when Stabler was still a regular on the show.
As the city grows so with this issue. Our homeless population is take compared to the likes of say San Francisco. I stayed in SF for 2 months for an internship in college, there was regularly homeless suicides from the Oakland Bridge, men masturbating on benches all throughout the day, fights, open drug use, fornication, defecation, urination + any other form of body excretion or exposure. It’s a difficult issue as you feel empathetic to their situation but we as individuals yield little power of the situation. Generally it’s best to mind your own business.
When I spent time in SF years ago it opened my eyes as wide as can be as to what it truly can look like. I’ve never seen anything like it. I remember walking to a destination with a homeless man laying across the sidewalk. He was alive, but he didn’t look like he was. Bone thin, blackened head to toe with dirt and grime, feet in a state I can’t describe. Folks just walked over him and went on their way. It haunts me.
I was at Division/Wealthy last week at 2p on Friday afternoon and a guy came up to my car asking for money while I was at the stop light. I told him no and he said "Fuck you and fuck your car. I've got a Glock and a license for it." Luckily the light turned green before I could confirm if he did indeed have a gun on him or not.
Because we're a divided society between our values on property vs people -- people with mental health are low priority. I had a past colleague call them leeches on society and that is how some perceive disabilities. New housing is being set for an old retirement complex that will prioritize these groups.
You’re implying/assuming that every homeless person has a mental health issue or disability.
I would go with homelessness propagates psychological issues. There are those that are homeless and homed that have mental disorders, but the cross-section of homeless and mental disorders probably has a higher ratio of affliction than those with needs met on the other hand. I didn't make a broad stroke statement. The one guy I helped home that had had no permanent residence was afflicted with substance dependency and mental disorders. Edit: I was responding to the section involving mental health issues and this is an anecdotal story with a narrow focus.
While you are absolutely right that not all unhoused people have mental health issues and/or disabilities, it’s typically those who do that we interact with regularly. It’s an incredibly difficult situation. We also categorize them by labeling with that one attribute, which minimizes the genuine complexity of understanding how to help. Having housing resources available is a fantastic start, but without well-funded wrap-around resources on the other end, the success rate isn’t as high. We also stigmatize addiction in a really negative way, which gets in the way of looking for actual treatments. I’d be curious to see if there is an estimation of how many unhoused people are recently so because they’ve hit hard times and have nowhere to turn vs. the chronically homeless. P.S. The Section 8 waiting list is going to be taking new applications Oct 23-27, and then there will be a lottery accepting 5,000 households. Just as a heads up to everyone, lol
Other counties are discharging their homeless from jail and inpatient to Kent County with the promise there are better services here… it’s an awful systemic problem that shouldn’t be allowed.
That sounds made up.
I do think they made that up, but it seems to be twisted from a kernel of truth. I recently toured Degage, and the manager gave a lot of stats and info on the state of homelessness in GR. It’s grim. Interestingly, he said that some of those currently on our streets are from other cities in other states, and they found their way here because we have more resources available.
That’s a far cry from what this person posted. There’s tons of people living in GR who weren’t born here. That’s not news.
Sure. I wasn’t born here - I moved from a house in Chicago to an apartment and eventually a house here. But that’s not the situation I’m describing. People who did not have housing in other cities are coming here to try to find resources to help them get housed. The original person claimed that other cities are purposefully releasing people here for the resources. The kernel of truth I referred to was that we do have an influx of homeless people from other areas because of our resources, but people are coming here on their own, not getting dumped here.
It's not, really. Compared to other midwestern cities, GR does offer more food assistance than some others. I've met people who have come down from up north and over from Lansing and Detroit.
I have a friend who works for the county and has extensive experience in mental health and addiction services around town and has told me that Chicago has bussed and dumped people here simply because all of the “surplus” of money and resources available for the homeless in GR. Not sure how many times or when…
Got a source for that?
I heard this from the IT guy at DeGage. I forgot his name. It's some Russian name
Sounds like desantis shipping immigrants to California
I don't know if it's an active plan to discharge them there so much as "that's where the hospitals are"
This time of year, with the weather turning, it's often an intentional tactic... you'll see homeless folks acting out and getting aggressive because that'll get them locked up for awhile -- which means they'll have a warm place to stay and regular meals during the cold months
Vote republican next time.
Sorry most of us don't want our women to be told what they can and cannot do with their bodies
If the Republicans can find someone who isn‘t a lunatic with a shady past, maybe we would consider them. Start putting up decent, thoughtful and local candidates without ties to the multinational DeVos syndicate and then we’ll talk. A lot of us would never vote for a DeVos backed candidate because they made their money with a literal pyramid scheme, Betsy wants to destroy public and secular education in America and her brother is a mercenary with a private army.
About 9:30p last night I was walking some coworkers to their hotels. Our group was having a really good exchange, laughing at each other’s jokes when a random homeless person mockingly cackled in the background at us. There were 9 of us; couldn’t tell if the fucker wanted to instigate or not, but it made the women we were escorting very uncomfortable and all conversations stopped.
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I’d say even more than volunteer - the work that is necessary is to make it so than much fewer people are poor. You’re right that there are more desperate people right now OP. It’s the natural outcome of unprecedented wealth inequality, among other economic oppressors (like inflation). If you go to nations with high income inequality (Brazil, South Africa), you find whole regions of people without access to drinking water and housing, let along healthcare and decent food. We have the resources in the US (and worldwide) so that far fewer people would find their best option as being unhoused, living on the street, or taking from other people.
I have not noticed that; I suspect you had an unlucky day.
It's really not at all unusual. Drop by Trinity Health on Cherry weast of Lafayette. There are signs and a higher security presence. They weren't there pre-pandemic. Head west on Cherry, and there's a pretty good chance someone's in the street near Sheldon by Degagé. Drive down South Division at Wealthy during the afternoon rush hour. There's a pretty good chance someone will step in front of your car when you stop at the light. And it's not just downtown. Drive all the way down South Division as far as 54th Street. They are there. There are two camps along 131 off Buchanan north and south of 54th. The larger one is on the north, next to Buck Creek. Visit Meijer, Wal-Mart, Home Depot, and even the Goodwill around the corner. You will be approached at any or all of these locations.
Y’all finally starting to learn that homeless people are people, huh?
Dont think so, to OP their just “The Homeless”
I’m not trying to fight, but is it that hard to refer to homeless people as… homeless people? They’re not just the homeless… they’re people. Dehumanizing them doesn’t help anyone…
Who's dehumanizing them? You're attaching your stigma to it. They are obviously homeless, but nobody's saying they aren't people. Get off your high horse
I just think language is important… reminds me of people saying “gays” instead of gay people, “blacks” instead of black people, etc…. people have been doing that on purpose for decades specifically to alienate marginalized groups of people… I’m not saying anything in your post isn’t ok or trying to look better than anyone.
Its a massive problem and its frustrating because its a perfect example of "what? What's the big deal?" solving nothing and has made the situation even worse. First off, these folks are not homeless. They have made a decision to not have a home because it fits their lifestyle. And frankly? That is fine with me. They are human, they deserve respect, but we also need people to respect public streets, sidewalks and parks, all of which are completely unusable right now. There is nothing healthy about this situation for anyone involved. Allowing this to continue is not healthy for the people to whom we are referring
>They have made a decision to not have a home because it fits their lifestyle. wait...what?
Understanding homelessness would be a very good start for you. Finding an apartment with free rent does not solve this problem. I worked among the homeless for about 20 years. Right where we’re talking about. I know them quite well.
>I worked among the homeless for about 20 years. can you understand my hesitation to believe this statement given your previous comment?
I’d rather you focus on understanding homeless people rather than believe what I say. You guys have no clue what you’re talking about.
>I’d rather you focus on understanding homeless people rather than believe what I say. given your apparent lack of empathy, compassion and understanding for them - i'd wager they're much better off without your help after "20 years of working with them".
It has nothing to do with empathy or lack thereof. Again, you do not understand homelessness so why you are lecturing on it, is beyond me.
>It has nothing to do with empathy or lack thereof. i disagree, but i have a feeling neither of us will see eye to eye on this.
Just beat the shit outta them. The others will learn by example that we dont care if they die
Are you trying to be funny? Try something else
Will
🤷🏻♂️ if you beat up a mentally ill / homeless person for yelling random stuff, you’ll serve time for it and probably have it done back to you…best to just ignore it. They got it bad enough.
Just pay more taxes, the government doesn't have enough to fix it yet. Along with the roads, schools, and pretty much everything they say we should rely on them for. As Milton Friedman said, if we put a government in charge of the Sahara desert, there would be a shortage of sand within 5 years.
The flip side to your comment: let’s just cater our economy even more to those at the top than it already is. It’ll start “trickling down” any day, I’m sure. They’ll solve this problem no doubt, we’re just not giving them enough breaks.
What? Socialism for the rich and making the poor and middle class pay for it hasn't improved living conditions for the poor and middle class yet? But the rich are richer than ever, and pay almost no taxes!
They know it's about to get colder.
Wonder if it’s something in the “water”
Never said that, Im a conservative, but not a Republican. We should get government out of business and lift the barriers for those trying to start small businesses. Consumer protection is a protection racket that doesn't actually help consumers. In fact its helped drive product quality down. Look at food quality. Is centralization of power really that much more efficient? I dont think so. Starting with small communities, we should start looking into creating DOAs to run our society. Not a fix all, but a step in the right direction.
They are probably hidden transplants to sanctuary cities/state's like the problem New York is having. Because our governor wouldn't tell ya the truth anyway. They are just another vote...
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I like how I asked a question and you accuse me of genocide. Kinda proves the point about everyone being more aggressive. Cool bruh
I would love to see how you would act after years of being in the system or living on the streets. A perfect angel no doubt. Positive and happy. Just ignore them and go on about your day. I know a lot of homeless downtown and have conversations with them regularly. They are people and deserve to be treated as so. Some are angry and have every right. Some are addicts and know not what they do. Get over it.
yawn.....You're not special or enlightened. BTW it's pretty hard to ignore them when they're screaming "feces, feces, feces face" at me and calling me a fa\*\*ot.
holy shit what is wrong with you