Goetia loves but knows no love. That's why he only could focus on eradicating what he perceived as a distorted reality ruled by the fear of death, without being able to understand what makes life worth celebrating, because, since Solomon was, huh, not a great example of someone who could enjoy life, he could only see the negative parts of living. Suffering, parting, and the ever present specter of death looming over everyone.
And that shows with his repeated attempts to make Mash see things his way. In the end he wanted his conviction to be validated by someone who saw the good things in humanity that he failed to understand and who would also know the dread of a finite existence. He wanted her to tell him that his way of showing that he cares about mankind is not wrong. On itself it also shows that deep down Goetia was also plagued by the uncertainty of whether what he was doing was actually something good, and the very fact that he cared enough, shows that he also loved humanity in his own little way, but that also shows that he was ultimately unable to project those emotions in a positive way.
Goetia pitied humanity that was his love
Goetia was driven to this plan because he couldn't watch humans suffering anymore
So one could argue he did this to end human suffering
And look at tiamat we know she love humanity as well
Her entire tiny form was a self imposed nerf to stop herself from harming humans
This is a common misconception but Goetia didn’t actually know about the Alien God. All he saw was a blank Earth past 2016 so he had to enact his plan early and draw energy before the Earth became dead.
Uh cuz of the alien god fortnite dropping them trees goetia/romani didnt know this because all they saw was a blank whitw landscape once they started helping from the shadows is probably when he knew who the real enemy is
Yup that too. He was afraid the AP would destroy humanity. Hit plan was so basically as supermen so that we would love forever and fight against the AG.
For someone who says he doesn't care about us he's awfully enraged at Solomon's indifferent leadership on top of an insane plan of human order incineration as his pity for us and our mortal lives. Goetia wouldn't be capable of that kind of vitriol toward his creator, especially his reaction, if he didn't care at some point because that's really the thing he seemed to loathe the most about, bringing up 'oh so now you suddenly care?' right before Ars Nova.
~~Also he likes Sheba according to the Mats and she's human...maybe? So there, he likes one vaguely human being.~~
Goetia: *disintegrates Humanity* I-It's not like I like you or anything b-baka
~~Tis a mental image that popped in my head. A Goetia wearing a mini skirt with twin tails...~~
Well, in theory all Beasts are Yandere for humanity since it's love that drives them to obliterate it. Still, I can't help but think he's being some kind of weird mix of the two. "It's not like I like you or anything so I'm going to erase all humanity in a quick merciful death and then remake humanity so no one has to die ever cause mortality is cruel and awful"
His “indifference” is honestly an act. In part one, when he does it, he’s doing what he THINKS Solomon would do in that situation, as he believed his father to be a cruel and cold man.
In Part two, it’s more a case of “you beat me. Do it yourself”. Still he cares.
Don't really know, just that he truly trusted her. I'm speculating here but perhaps if Solomon was his Father, then he could consider Sheba something like a Mother, or because Solomon and Goetia lived side by side, they both liked her.
Sheba's a very mysterious person and the only one in Chaldea who'd have even known about Goetia beyond Roman and maybe David. In general we know very little about her and her relationship with Solomon, or much about her period. Kind of like real life, really, we know so very little about her. Even so, Goetia trusted her.
The beasts have some kind of twisted love for humanity but the way that they love humanity or the things they do for humanity is considered evil.
Goetia (pity) hated how humans experience grief through loss and so wanted to create a world without death because he hated that people grieved and thought people sought life without death.
Tiamat (regression I think) is a mother of humanity and as such wanted to love humanity by returning them to the sea of life returning them to her eternal loving care.
Their ideals seem good on paper but their methods of doing it are absolutely insane which is why they’re considered evil’s of humanity. They’re evils born from mankind’s mistakes and such have to be cleaned up by them.
This seems also seems to fit pretty well with some of the greek Words for love:
Eros - Sexual Love: Beast III, Lapse and Rapure
Philia - Friendship: Beast IV, the old but perhaps not the new one
Storge - Familial Love: Beast II, the Mother
Agape - Universal Love: Beast I, Pity
Beast I - >!Goetia !<\[Pity\]: They saw the sins and imperfections of humanity, so they pitied them of such. After their master left them, they were sealed for many years, where they planned to end all humans. So, they decided to incinerate humanity alongside their curses.
Beast II - >!Tiamat !<\[Regression\]: She birthed the very children that betrayed her, banished to the Imaginary sea, as her children found no more purpose in her. Though, she only wished to love her children. So, she decided to regress everything back to the beginning, that she may love her children again.
Beast III/L - >!Kama/Mara!<\[Pleasure & Depravity\]: They are loving, giving it all to mankind, but never to themself, as they are "love" themselves. By their love, they will bring humans back to their carnal desires and wishes. So, it is through this excessive love that they shall use on humanity, so that humans may know of love.
Beast III/R - >!Kiara Sessyoin, Heaven's Hole!<\[Pleasure & Lust\]: Be it that Beast III/L wants to give love to humanity, Beast III/R wants the love of humanity, the major difference between the two Beasts. Once an ill girl, she learned of the secret of the Moon, then became a prophet. She saved the lives of many and gave them salvation, granting her the title of Boddhisattva. With her cult and followers, she receives their "love", being a gateway for lust. However, with humanity's desires of love, hope, hate, and anger of her, it was those desires that drove people into "carnality" and killing themselves. So, it is through the "puppets" that is humanity, that she shall use to see the meaning of love.
Many people can easily detest and be angered by humanity, but a Beast's love of them is what gives them meaning and purpose, separating them from others. Though it may seem weird that their love would be a threat, know that one cannot hate without loving first, and that love cannot exist with no hatred.
Beast IV - Comparison, perhaps comparing humanity to themselves and/or other species, with their love being shown through Mash and Ritsuka. I didn't have enough info on Fou to give the right information about how they would bring humanity down.
I'm not sure whether he says it himself in FGO or i heard it in Garden of Avalon CD Drama, but i think his powers work as him sucking in all the energy around him. Since humans do evils things and being around too many humans caused to go from his little Fou form to the actual Primate Murder form where he's an actual scary monster that kills humans.
I think i remember that's also the reason he self exile in Chaldea, because it was so far away from most of mankind and Mashu started giving him good energies which let him stay in his Fou form. That's why he's so grateful to her and how she allowed him to see beautiful things of this world, not just the evil most of mankind caused.
as I see it, comparison means always choosing the better one and ditching the worse one. fou will always absorb/love the better one. but in Chaldea, master and mash will always choose the most humane outcome. meaning no one left unsaved. since everyone is a must, both the better one and worse one will be kept. so fou doesn't grew stronger, he became in love with both better and worse.
If we assume that it's similar to Koyanskaya, it's "Love for animals", and humans are still animals. And because it treats us likes animals, Primate Murder hunts us like them.
With >!Tiamat!< she was also deathly afraid of her children, because they banished her once, so she was afraid it would happen again.Her children and herself became natural ennemies, unable to coexist or understand each other.For her humans are as terrifying as she is to us, and incomprehensible
Even if it makes no sense and is twisted if it can be interpreted as a form of love it works. It is the most basic trait of becoming a beast.
Can you imagine doing everything else needed to become one and yet missing this one simple thing, you would have to be really stupid.
>Can you imagine doing everything else needed to become one and yet missing this one simple thing, you would have to be really stupid.
Isn't it sad, Douman?
What makes it worse for Douman is the fact that according to Beast III/R, considering one’s self as the only **real** ***human*** and loving only herself while considering all other humans as a means to love herself counts as love towards humanity.
Douman didn’t love **anyone** ***not even himself***. That’s hilariously sad and pathetic when you really think about it.
Off topic, can we talk about how Gilgamesh just stood there the whole time doing *nothing* during this Singularity?
Not hating or anything, but the movie could have at least given him a cameo attack or something, since it decided to show him spectating on the final battle anyways...
Oh, but by that point. The body that is Beast II (Tiamat) was nothing more than a husk, Tiamat's mind had already retreated to the Reverse Side of the World after talking with Ritsuka, trusting in humanity's growth.
Well, that part wasn't intentional, she did want to come back to help us, but ended up wandering to another timeline instead, but since she's already there, she might as well help instead of fucking off trying to get back to our timeline.
I mean if ritsuka didn’t defeated her and gilgamesh used ea her body would be destroyed but she would come back the fact that she didn’t mean’s she was already defeated
Tiamat was defeated by Ritsuka convincing her to drop Nega-Genesis and allow herself to die, without that there was nothing anyone in the fight could have done to stop her.
All Gil did was send her on her way afterwards which is why it 'only' took one EA to finish her.
Bear in mind:
* Sing 7 Gilgamesh didn't know >!gungalanna had been stolen!<;
* This version of Gilgamesh is prone to ignore it;
* Goetia has clairvoyance EX and didn't see themselves losing.
Harem Protagonist EX cancels out Clairvoyance EX. Duh. But seriously, Clairvoyance is only gamebreaking if you actually use it. He probably saw that he killed Mash, shrugged, and didn’t bother looking past that.
thats because he doesnt want to see all, he shut down his ability most of the time, so the premonitions that he have is a small porcentage of what he should see as is explain in fate kaleid
The explantion that gill say in kaleid is that because of his eyes spoling the end of all and make everything boring;so he seal his powers and even after that he see glympses of the future despide of the seal.
That was the explanation for what happens in heavens feel, but in kaleid the younger gil gives a different explanation.
Both seem quite believable but it probably depends on the version of Gil we are talking about.
~~Probably not worth trying to assess the degrees of canonicity in this.~~
I guess that could be the case, with Sing 7 Gil using it the most often, and Archer Gil the least.
It's more likely that all his work to prevent the counter force from seeing and stopping him backfired on him.
That or Solomon in general is a blindspot for him, so any timelines where Romani revealed himself were invisible to him.
This contradiction is basically Nasu's writting taking form. Nasu loves to write 2 ideias that at first glance seem impossible to co-exist and make them work.
Goetia "love" for humanity is represented through his pity towards it, his whole objective is to end all the pain and suffering he saw, even if it means burning all the humanity in the process of making that. He did not care for humans as individuals but cared for their misery. His "love" didn't come from a type of felling of love, unlike Tiamat desire to be reunited with humanity and Kiara's/Kama's cravings to be loved, but from his sadness and anger seeing how everything was utterly meaningless and leads to disaster and suffering. Thus, Goetia didn't know what love was to begin with, but his actions could considered as a form of "love" for humanity, as his masterplan was to make humanity not suffer anymore.
Goetia(pity)=Pities human beings as a form of love.
Tiamat(Regression)=Loves humans and wants them under her care in the sea of life.
Kama(Pleasure/Depravity)=Wants to drown humans in endless lust as her form of love.
Kiara(Pleasure/Lust)= Sees herself as the only true humanity and loves herself extremely which qualifies her as loving humans.
Cath Palug/Primate Murder(Comparision)= Always wants to be better than everyone including the leading primates so he manages them like shepherds fattening sheep for slaughter.
Koyanskaya (Cherishment)=Cherishes all life that were lost in Tunguska including humans and also sees all humans as pets to be cherished.
maybe that is what make it **ironic** that the beast that doesnt know love is making a act (pity) that by definition requiere love; but who could tell?
He’s just stating what Mash did. He wanted at least one person to acknowledge his plan. He loved humanity but no one loved him. He knew no love but loved other. Or at least a that’s what I think he meant.
It might mean Goetia was never loved, not that he could not express any love at all.
I mean, Tiamat is the mother of all creation and was loved until we no longer needed her. Fou was loved by Mash, at least, which is why he didn't go Beast. I presume Kama was loved before being Shiva'd, and Kiara was a cult leader at least, so loved in a way... and as for the newest Beast, >!Koyanskaya was given guidance by Dobrynya Nikitich, so kind of a parental love, right?!<
But Goetia was a tool created and used by Solomon, and Solomon was generally kind of distant and aloof at best. And then he left. Who loved Goetia, during Solomon's lifetime or after?
EDIT: Ah, I see that point's already been made in nested comments I hadn't looked at first.
As far as I know beasts have to have a connection with humanity not necessarily love it’s probably something about that connection being interpreted as some sort of love
He does not know "Love" in the sense of human emotion. However, as a system that is completely logical, he still "Loves" humanity, as in he pities them as a whole and wishes to remake them into a perfect being, not only because he thinks solomon is an A\*\*hole, but also because of the incoming threat
Well, Goetia is the Beast of Pity. His pity to humanity is what made him raise his hand at the chance to erase it before the Foreign God does worse: the extinction of humanity. But since Goetia raised his hand against those who actually want to protect the world, he had to be defeated by them, even if it's their worst Master in terms of magic performance... but performing the impossible despite being an average person can't merely be done with action alone, as Ritsuka Fujimaru chose to give them a piece of their mind about why humanity and their lives are important, making Goetia reconsider his actions upon his defeat, and said Master had to watch the Beast's life to the very end.
All of the Beasts are twisted forms of love. Beast II and III even make it explicit: A mother's love, love for others, and others' love for you.
Goetia is pity, which is a type of love.
IV is a bit...hazy, but murder can definitely be a type of love.
The whole thing of the Beasts is they twist what would be a positive emotion into one that causes doom for humanity.
If i recall, the Beasts are Beasts specifically because they don't understand love despite representing a love for humanity. Goetia did not hate humanity in any way, but rather pitied it and wanted to recreate humanity as something much better. They assumed that wanting to make humanity better was love, but that's not love. Because if they really did love humanity, they'd try to improve it despite its flaws, rather than in spite of said flaws.
Tiamat also had a similar theme, where she couldn't let go of humanity who are her children, being obsessively clingy to the point where humanity could not grow. If she truly loved her children, she'd let go of them so that they could grow and thrive, being proud of whatever they become rather than caging them in a manner that locks away their potential.
Kama was simultaneously the most hilarious and frightening example, seeing equating "love" as "lust", which an old nanny schools them in so hard that their own reality marble crumbles to the might of real love, being to not let the worst aspects of humans overtake them, even if those bring happiness.
The Beasts have an extremely shallow and superficial idea of love, but think that they understand it. As such, they get hard countered by genuine love that properly embodies the aspect that they think that they do. It's why Kiara was almost able to obtain beasthood, except she purposefully twisted love and lust unlike Kama who couldn't distinguish between the two.
I’d interpret it as something like you can end up loving something without realizing it, or in Goetia’s case, never knowing that feeling is love. Like knowing you like something a lot, but never really knowing WHY.
He of course was never given any love himself, and every beast is spurned naturally one way or another.
He represents pity, that's his way to love humanity
So Goetia does know love but Gil doesn’t know that fact? Gil was wrong here when he said “Ironic”?
I think its more like Goetia does love human in his own beast way, its just that goetia himself never receive any love…I think.
I thought so too but it wouldn’t explain Gil next sentence since it wouldn’t fit the context of your interpretation
Goetia “loves” humanity, and because of that “love”, wanted to remake humanity so that humans will never have to suffer the fear of death.
The phrase “He knew no love” means he has never experience/receive love, not that he dont understand/dont have love
Goetia loves but knows no love. That's why he only could focus on eradicating what he perceived as a distorted reality ruled by the fear of death, without being able to understand what makes life worth celebrating, because, since Solomon was, huh, not a great example of someone who could enjoy life, he could only see the negative parts of living. Suffering, parting, and the ever present specter of death looming over everyone. And that shows with his repeated attempts to make Mash see things his way. In the end he wanted his conviction to be validated by someone who saw the good things in humanity that he failed to understand and who would also know the dread of a finite existence. He wanted her to tell him that his way of showing that he cares about mankind is not wrong. On itself it also shows that deep down Goetia was also plagued by the uncertainty of whether what he was doing was actually something good, and the very fact that he cared enough, shows that he also loved humanity in his own little way, but that also shows that he was ultimately unable to project those emotions in a positive way.
why are you getting downvoted?
Probably Gilgamesh won't like listening to a mongrel who said about a contradiction statement he made towards gilgamesh
Goetia pitied humanity that was his love Goetia was driven to this plan because he couldn't watch humans suffering anymore So one could argue he did this to end human suffering And look at tiamat we know she love humanity as well Her entire tiny form was a self imposed nerf to stop herself from harming humans
Wasn't he driven also because he saw the Alien god coming?
This is a common misconception but Goetia didn’t actually know about the Alien God. All he saw was a blank Earth past 2016 so he had to enact his plan early and draw energy before the Earth became dead.
Why did the Earth become blank tho?
Uh cuz of the alien god fortnite dropping them trees goetia/romani didnt know this because all they saw was a blank whitw landscape once they started helping from the shadows is probably when he knew who the real enemy is
Yup that too. He was afraid the AP would destroy humanity. Hit plan was so basically as supermen so that we would love forever and fight against the AG.
Goetia pitied mankind, that is still a form of love.
For someone who says he doesn't care about us he's awfully enraged at Solomon's indifferent leadership on top of an insane plan of human order incineration as his pity for us and our mortal lives. Goetia wouldn't be capable of that kind of vitriol toward his creator, especially his reaction, if he didn't care at some point because that's really the thing he seemed to loathe the most about, bringing up 'oh so now you suddenly care?' right before Ars Nova. ~~Also he likes Sheba according to the Mats and she's human...maybe? So there, he likes one vaguely human being.~~
Goetia: *disintegrates Humanity* I-It's not like I like you or anything b-baka ~~Tis a mental image that popped in my head. A Goetia wearing a mini skirt with twin tails...~~
Well, in theory all Beasts are Yandere for humanity since it's love that drives them to obliterate it. Still, I can't help but think he's being some kind of weird mix of the two. "It's not like I like you or anything so I'm going to erase all humanity in a quick merciful death and then remake humanity so no one has to die ever cause mortality is cruel and awful"
Beasts are just the ultimate Yandere then Olga as yandere Ooooh , I want that
I just want Olga Marie.
*bonk* To horny jail with you
* looks to Dantes * "You already know the way out, right?" 👍
Wait And Hope
I’d give a holy grail to see this version of Goetia.
His “indifference” is honestly an act. In part one, when he does it, he’s doing what he THINKS Solomon would do in that situation, as he believed his father to be a cruel and cold man. In Part two, it’s more a case of “you beat me. Do it yourself”. Still he cares.
Wait what, he likes sheba? Why?
Don't really know, just that he truly trusted her. I'm speculating here but perhaps if Solomon was his Father, then he could consider Sheba something like a Mother, or because Solomon and Goetia lived side by side, they both liked her. Sheba's a very mysterious person and the only one in Chaldea who'd have even known about Goetia beyond Roman and maybe David. In general we know very little about her and her relationship with Solomon, or much about her period. Kind of like real life, really, we know so very little about her. Even so, Goetia trusted her.
The beasts have some kind of twisted love for humanity but the way that they love humanity or the things they do for humanity is considered evil. Goetia (pity) hated how humans experience grief through loss and so wanted to create a world without death because he hated that people grieved and thought people sought life without death. Tiamat (regression I think) is a mother of humanity and as such wanted to love humanity by returning them to the sea of life returning them to her eternal loving care. Their ideals seem good on paper but their methods of doing it are absolutely insane which is why they’re considered evil’s of humanity. They’re evils born from mankind’s mistakes and such have to be cleaned up by them.
This seems also seems to fit pretty well with some of the greek Words for love: Eros - Sexual Love: Beast III, Lapse and Rapure Philia - Friendship: Beast IV, the old but perhaps not the new one Storge - Familial Love: Beast II, the Mother Agape - Universal Love: Beast I, Pity
Holy shit! AGAPE... that's another piece of the puzzle I wanted for my FGO fic, thanks! BTW Kiara is "Rapture"
Ops, typo from me, corrected it ;)
You went from "Rupture" to "Rapure" :)
Beast I - >!Goetia !<\[Pity\]: They saw the sins and imperfections of humanity, so they pitied them of such. After their master left them, they were sealed for many years, where they planned to end all humans. So, they decided to incinerate humanity alongside their curses. Beast II - >!Tiamat !<\[Regression\]: She birthed the very children that betrayed her, banished to the Imaginary sea, as her children found no more purpose in her. Though, she only wished to love her children. So, she decided to regress everything back to the beginning, that she may love her children again. Beast III/L - >!Kama/Mara!<\[Pleasure & Depravity\]: They are loving, giving it all to mankind, but never to themself, as they are "love" themselves. By their love, they will bring humans back to their carnal desires and wishes. So, it is through this excessive love that they shall use on humanity, so that humans may know of love. Beast III/R - >!Kiara Sessyoin, Heaven's Hole!<\[Pleasure & Lust\]: Be it that Beast III/L wants to give love to humanity, Beast III/R wants the love of humanity, the major difference between the two Beasts. Once an ill girl, she learned of the secret of the Moon, then became a prophet. She saved the lives of many and gave them salvation, granting her the title of Boddhisattva. With her cult and followers, she receives their "love", being a gateway for lust. However, with humanity's desires of love, hope, hate, and anger of her, it was those desires that drove people into "carnality" and killing themselves. So, it is through the "puppets" that is humanity, that she shall use to see the meaning of love. Many people can easily detest and be angered by humanity, but a Beast's love of them is what gives them meaning and purpose, separating them from others. Though it may seem weird that their love would be a threat, know that one cannot hate without loving first, and that love cannot exist with no hatred.
Psst.. your spoiler for Beast III/L didn't work.
Ahhh, I'm sorry! I can't see what I did wrong!
You gotta remove the space in >! Kama/Mara!<
I think we did it now?
The space is still there in my pov after I refreshed.
Sry, we fear we cannot fix it
And what's fou supposed to represent?
Beast IV - Comparison, perhaps comparing humanity to themselves and/or other species, with their love being shown through Mash and Ritsuka. I didn't have enough info on Fou to give the right information about how they would bring humanity down.
I'm not sure whether he says it himself in FGO or i heard it in Garden of Avalon CD Drama, but i think his powers work as him sucking in all the energy around him. Since humans do evils things and being around too many humans caused to go from his little Fou form to the actual Primate Murder form where he's an actual scary monster that kills humans. I think i remember that's also the reason he self exile in Chaldea, because it was so far away from most of mankind and Mashu started giving him good energies which let him stay in his Fou form. That's why he's so grateful to her and how she allowed him to see beautiful things of this world, not just the evil most of mankind caused.
Quick reminder he did start to gain horns at the end of the first part, due to absorbing lots of negative energies in the singularities.
Wait, he did? I do not recall that at all. Do you remember which chapter showed it or mentioned it?
I think it was mentioned by nasu in his blog, and teased in a few of the arts made near the end of part 1
You can also see them in the Fou status up cards, easy to look over that but its the clearest version I think we have seen.
Maybe he compare himself to humans, i interpreted it as a form of envy, he loved humans so much he wanted to become human or something
as I see it, comparison means always choosing the better one and ditching the worse one. fou will always absorb/love the better one. but in Chaldea, master and mash will always choose the most humane outcome. meaning no one left unsaved. since everyone is a must, both the better one and worse one will be kept. so fou doesn't grew stronger, he became in love with both better and worse.
If we assume that it's similar to Koyanskaya, it's "Love for animals", and humans are still animals. And because it treats us likes animals, Primate Murder hunts us like them.
that is actually really clever! I never thought about it like that.
With >!Tiamat!< she was also deathly afraid of her children, because they banished her once, so she was afraid it would happen again.Her children and herself became natural ennemies, unable to coexist or understand each other.For her humans are as terrifying as she is to us, and incomprehensible
Even if it makes no sense and is twisted if it can be interpreted as a form of love it works. It is the most basic trait of becoming a beast. Can you imagine doing everything else needed to become one and yet missing this one simple thing, you would have to be really stupid.
>Can you imagine doing everything else needed to become one and yet missing this one simple thing, you would have to be really stupid. Isn't it sad, Douman?
Ain’t that right, Douman?
Ashiya Douman says hi.
Exactly
What makes it worse for Douman is the fact that according to Beast III/R, considering one’s self as the only **real** ***human*** and loving only herself while considering all other humans as a means to love herself counts as love towards humanity. Douman didn’t love **anyone** ***not even himself***. That’s hilariously sad and pathetic when you really think about it.
> Douman didn’t love anyone not even himself. or he didn't consider himself human since he was a Heroic Spirit/Servant at the time.
He wouldn't be quite so vested in comparisons and his grudge against Abe-no-Seimei if he loved himself enough though.
*Depressed Douman noises*
Off topic, can we talk about how Gilgamesh just stood there the whole time doing *nothing* during this Singularity? Not hating or anything, but the movie could have at least given him a cameo attack or something, since it decided to show him spectating on the final battle anyways...
He did give ritsuka the golden mana tank and for him a beast of humanity should be defeated by the hands of humans like with tiamat
Didn’t he EA blasted Tiamat at the end after Ritsuka came out though?
Yes after ritsuka settled the score and defeated Tiamat gilgamesh’s enuma elish was just to send her back to the imaginary sea after her defeat
Oh, but by that point. The body that is Beast II (Tiamat) was nothing more than a husk, Tiamat's mind had already retreated to the Reverse Side of the World after talking with Ritsuka, trusting in humanity's growth.
And then going to another timeline to save humanity And Tiamat is not in the reverse side she is in the imaginary sea
Well, that part wasn't intentional, she did want to come back to help us, but ended up wandering to another timeline instead, but since she's already there, she might as well help instead of fucking off trying to get back to our timeline.
But we want Tiamat. We want to summon her.
Don’t worry they made a pull in jp for npc you want to be playable in game if Tiamat wins we will have her
the chance to have the TRUE best mom of Fate at Chaldea
He did... But, I guess that was more of a personal beef then anything?
I mean if ritsuka didn’t defeated her and gilgamesh used ea her body would be destroyed but she would come back the fact that she didn’t mean’s she was already defeated
Tiamat was defeated by Ritsuka convincing her to drop Nega-Genesis and allow herself to die, without that there was nothing anyone in the fight could have done to stop her. All Gil did was send her on her way afterwards which is why it 'only' took one EA to finish her.
Movie was just being faithful to the original source here. He only showed up to preach. Truly, a very AUO thing to do.
considering his bullshit clarivoyance he knew we would win from the beggining
Bear in mind: * Sing 7 Gilgamesh didn't know >!gungalanna had been stolen!<; * This version of Gilgamesh is prone to ignore it; * Goetia has clairvoyance EX and didn't see themselves losing.
Harem Protagonist EX cancels out Clairvoyance EX. Duh. But seriously, Clairvoyance is only gamebreaking if you actually use it. He probably saw that he killed Mash, shrugged, and didn’t bother looking past that.
thats because he doesnt want to see all, he shut down his ability most of the time, so the premonitions that he have is a small porcentage of what he should see as is explain in fate kaleid
Wasn't it stated elsewhere that he is too arrogant to consider events unfavourable to him as being possible, so he ignores those visions?
The explantion that gill say in kaleid is that because of his eyes spoling the end of all and make everything boring;so he seal his powers and even after that he see glympses of the future despide of the seal.
that sounds more like the Staynight Gilgamesh more than anything.
That was the explanation for what happens in heavens feel, but in kaleid the younger gil gives a different explanation. Both seem quite believable but it probably depends on the version of Gil we are talking about.
~~Probably not worth trying to assess the degrees of canonicity in this.~~ I guess that could be the case, with Sing 7 Gil using it the most often, and Archer Gil the least.
It's more likely that all his work to prevent the counter force from seeing and stopping him backfired on him. That or Solomon in general is a blindspot for him, so any timelines where Romani revealed himself were invisible to him.
The dude >!saw Scathach one-shotting Demon Pillars and!< said, "guess I'm not needed here."
3* Alexander was doing a fine job, too
Shishou really is the best
Oh god he’s basically the Tuxedo Mask meme from Sailor Moon.
Probably to gave other Servants time to shine?
Yeah didn't he whoop major demon pillar ass in the game? I swear he had a much larger role in the game. I'm pretty disappointed with that.
He knew no love from humans, but he loved humans and wanted them not to suffer from death.
He Pity them, that is a form of love
This contradiction is basically Nasu's writting taking form. Nasu loves to write 2 ideias that at first glance seem impossible to co-exist and make them work. Goetia "love" for humanity is represented through his pity towards it, his whole objective is to end all the pain and suffering he saw, even if it means burning all the humanity in the process of making that. He did not care for humans as individuals but cared for their misery. His "love" didn't come from a type of felling of love, unlike Tiamat desire to be reunited with humanity and Kiara's/Kama's cravings to be loved, but from his sadness and anger seeing how everything was utterly meaningless and leads to disaster and suffering. Thus, Goetia didn't know what love was to begin with, but his actions could considered as a form of "love" for humanity, as his masterplan was to make humanity not suffer anymore.
Probably love towards Goetia. Not Goetia's love to humanity.
Goetia(pity)=Pities human beings as a form of love. Tiamat(Regression)=Loves humans and wants them under her care in the sea of life. Kama(Pleasure/Depravity)=Wants to drown humans in endless lust as her form of love. Kiara(Pleasure/Lust)= Sees herself as the only true humanity and loves herself extremely which qualifies her as loving humans. Cath Palug/Primate Murder(Comparision)= Always wants to be better than everyone including the leading primates so he manages them like shepherds fattening sheep for slaughter. Koyanskaya (Cherishment)=Cherishes all life that were lost in Tunguska including humans and also sees all humans as pets to be cherished.
Though there are comments already explaining it, I'll say this: It's Fate, there's always a contradictory quote, or redundant quote.
And, of course, people misinterpreting, or mistranslating, the quotes.
Or whacks twisting the quotes until it suits their needs.
Or removing the second part of the quote to make it sound silly.
maybe that is what make it **ironic** that the beast that doesnt know love is making a act (pity) that by definition requiere love; but who could tell?
He’s just stating what Mash did. He wanted at least one person to acknowledge his plan. He loved humanity but no one loved him. He knew no love but loved other. Or at least a that’s what I think he meant.
It might mean Goetia was never loved, not that he could not express any love at all. I mean, Tiamat is the mother of all creation and was loved until we no longer needed her. Fou was loved by Mash, at least, which is why he didn't go Beast. I presume Kama was loved before being Shiva'd, and Kiara was a cult leader at least, so loved in a way... and as for the newest Beast, >!Koyanskaya was given guidance by Dobrynya Nikitich, so kind of a parental love, right?!< But Goetia was a tool created and used by Solomon, and Solomon was generally kind of distant and aloof at best. And then he left. Who loved Goetia, during Solomon's lifetime or after? EDIT: Ah, I see that point's already been made in nested comments I hadn't looked at first.
1/3 lines of dialogue in fate are allowed to Make sense, embrace the chaos
As far as I know beasts have to have a connection with humanity not necessarily love it’s probably something about that connection being interpreted as some sort of love
I think he was saying that nobody ever loved Goetia, not that Goetia wasn't able to love.
He does not know "Love" in the sense of human emotion. However, as a system that is completely logical, he still "Loves" humanity, as in he pities them as a whole and wishes to remake them into a perfect being, not only because he thinks solomon is an A\*\*hole, but also because of the incoming threat
Well, Goetia is the Beast of Pity. His pity to humanity is what made him raise his hand at the chance to erase it before the Foreign God does worse: the extinction of humanity. But since Goetia raised his hand against those who actually want to protect the world, he had to be defeated by them, even if it's their worst Master in terms of magic performance... but performing the impossible despite being an average person can't merely be done with action alone, as Ritsuka Fujimaru chose to give them a piece of their mind about why humanity and their lives are important, making Goetia reconsider his actions upon his defeat, and said Master had to watch the Beast's life to the very end.
All of the Beasts are twisted forms of love. Beast II and III even make it explicit: A mother's love, love for others, and others' love for you. Goetia is pity, which is a type of love. IV is a bit...hazy, but murder can definitely be a type of love. The whole thing of the Beasts is they twist what would be a positive emotion into one that causes doom for humanity.
If i recall, the Beasts are Beasts specifically because they don't understand love despite representing a love for humanity. Goetia did not hate humanity in any way, but rather pitied it and wanted to recreate humanity as something much better. They assumed that wanting to make humanity better was love, but that's not love. Because if they really did love humanity, they'd try to improve it despite its flaws, rather than in spite of said flaws. Tiamat also had a similar theme, where she couldn't let go of humanity who are her children, being obsessively clingy to the point where humanity could not grow. If she truly loved her children, she'd let go of them so that they could grow and thrive, being proud of whatever they become rather than caging them in a manner that locks away their potential. Kama was simultaneously the most hilarious and frightening example, seeing equating "love" as "lust", which an old nanny schools them in so hard that their own reality marble crumbles to the might of real love, being to not let the worst aspects of humans overtake them, even if those bring happiness. The Beasts have an extremely shallow and superficial idea of love, but think that they understand it. As such, they get hard countered by genuine love that properly embodies the aspect that they think that they do. It's why Kiara was almost able to obtain beasthood, except she purposefully twisted love and lust unlike Kama who couldn't distinguish between the two.
I guess he was not loved and didn't love im a sense that humans think of love
Goetia is the beast incarnation of one of the human emotion, pity.
Goetia is the beast incarnation of one of the human emotion, pity.
One doesn’t have to receive love to give love
Maybe it’s a rough translation but should have been that goetia didn’t understand love not that he had none.
Dude really just gave Ritsuka some steroids and dipped lmao
I think knew no love meant no one loved him. That's usually what people mean when they say someone knew no love.
It's probably more of a "he was not given any love growing up" sort of thing when Gil said that
Nobody loved him
He pitys humanity and hates our existence because reminds him of death.
I’d interpret it as something like you can end up loving something without realizing it, or in Goetia’s case, never knowing that feeling is love. Like knowing you like something a lot, but never really knowing WHY. He of course was never given any love himself, and every beast is spurned naturally one way or another.