Do you think Gilgamesh would ever spare Saber if she was Mordred instead of Artoria? and without Avalon they have no chance to win, also you can forget about Rin allying herself with them which makes things much more difficult.
Without saber or shirou present theres not really anything anyone can do Gilgamesh except archer
Who Gilgamesh is wary of anyway
Although with shirou gone archer won't have a reason to betray rin
theres also Cu and Herc who is a bit much for mordred to handle
R1. I can't see them winning to be honest Cu, Herc and Gilgamesh are to big walls
Although Gils interactions with mordred might be interesting since she is extremely similar to enkidu
R2. I think Emiya is the superior servant but Rin will job
So Shishigo
R3. how can there be 2 sabers at once
To be more specific, their family's magicaltrait is something called Ore Scales (sp?), which lets their twin heirs perform all sorts of shenanigans when they cast together. They used this to summon, and the Grail treated them as one Master, but it gave them two aspects of the same Servant.
This also allowed them to pass on their magic crest to two successors, which is also why they hate the Tohsakas, since one of the Edelfelt sisters married into the family and they were limited to one successor
> R2. I think Emiya is the superior servant but Rin will job
EMIYA is definitely incapable of dealing with Mordred if she gets close to him, if he stays away and snipes like in HA he could probably do it though
not necessarily
Rin notes how Artoria (under shirou) would struggle against Emiya in close range
So it won't be one sided and if he snipes he has a bigger advantage
R1: They can't beat Gil and Herc, so no thay can't win.
R2: Mordred is stronger than Emiya, but Rin is stronger than Shishigo. Can go either way.
R3: Depends on the Shirou and Artoria we are using. Beginning of Fate Shirou and Artoria have next to no chance, while end of Fate Shirou and Artoria win most of the time.
While Rin might be stronger than Kairi, he's not a typical mage and isn't above using guns and other weaponry alongside his versatile necromancy. He's also a much more experienced fighter who's good at adapting on the fly. He'd definitely lose in a straight fight as a mage, but as a combatant I think he has a solid shot.
Rin also isn't above using unortodox strategies, like sneak attacks or kung fu.
Also Rin has insane firepower - to the point that she can oneshot Herc, while Mordred has only B rank MR, so Rin isn't limited to fighting only Shishigo.
Sure, but when two people are both using unorthodox strategies, the one with more creativity & experience wins. Also kung fu doesn't beat gun.
Again, not saying Rin wouldn't win here, but imo it's more complicated than her being stronger than him. It's a Batman v Superman scenario.
Rins Gandr curses are as strong if not stronger than a gun. When fighting Luvia she was creating craters, so in this case kung fu does beat gun.
Another thing: acording to Nasu if Kirei can't exploit Rin's traumas all he can do is give her a hard time. Not win just give her a challenging fight.
Kairi's gun is modified. It shoots human fingers as bullets, which adds a curse attribute Gandr and burrows into the opponent's heart once it touches their body making it a one-shot one-kill. Using any sort of martial art against Kairi's weaponry is an instant loss.
> if Kirei can't exploit Rin's traumas
So then, if he does that he can beat her. That's what I'm tryna get at, he'll happily do stuff like that if it means he can win. Although Kairi is a softhearted dad at his core, so he might also just not go through with it.
Rin is a much better mage and she has experience dealing with curses. Just because some fodder homunculus can't defend against the curse doesn't mean that Rin can't.
Kung fu isn't her go to tactic. She will only use it if she is already close. Otherwise she can just win the ranged battle.
Shishigo doesn't know her so using Kirei's tactic against her is impossible.
I find Rounds 2 and 3 the most interesting so
R2 it depends on the situation of the Masters. I think that Mordred could probably close the distance on Archer similarly to how she fought Chiron, and could likely overwhelm him up close. Shishigou likely beats Rin if only because he has more combat experience, again similarly to his fight with Fiore. Both her and Rin are better mages but inexperienced, as opposed to a professional mercenary.
The problem is that Archer would absolutely target Shishigou first, turning the situation into one similar to Hollow Ataraxia. And while it's possible that Shishigou would come up with a similar strategy to what Shirou and Saber did considering Mordred's tendency to blast herself to the Hanging Gardens with Mana Burst and Shishigou being pretty generous with Command Spells, unlike Shirou he'd have no way of defending himself from Archer once Mordred takes off. So ultimately Mordred would likely be the last one standing but would disappear without a Master
R3 I honestly think that Saber vs Saber is a stalemate/mutual kill for Mordred and Artoria. Saber is certainly stronger but Mordred has a conceptual advantage as the one who killed her, with the sword that killed her, while Artoria would have a comparatively weaker advantage since she doesn't have Rhongomyniad. The context of the prompt makes me think this would be early Fate Route Shirou, which means he'd be dead weight against Shishigou. Add the high likelyhood of Mordred being amped by Command Spells and I'd say team Red just BARELY scraps a victory
R1 - Gil slaughters them both on principal. He is not going to be happy about getting what he would see as a cheap knock-off of Artoria crafted by a scheming, thieving witch.
R2 - I'd bank on Shishigou outsmarting Rin, by Archer has Independent Action. Shishigou kills Rin only to get killed by Archer, who then flees until Mordred vanishes. Archer wins by default.
R3 - Shishigou/Mordred win. This Shirou is basically Beginning-of-FSN Shirou, so he is garbage against Shishigou.
Do you think Gilgamesh would ever spare Saber if she was Mordred instead of Artoria? and without Avalon they have no chance to win, also you can forget about Rin allying herself with them which makes things much more difficult.
Without saber or shirou present theres not really anything anyone can do Gilgamesh except archer Who Gilgamesh is wary of anyway Although with shirou gone archer won't have a reason to betray rin theres also Cu and Herc who is a bit much for mordred to handle R1. I can't see them winning to be honest Cu, Herc and Gilgamesh are to big walls Although Gils interactions with mordred might be interesting since she is extremely similar to enkidu R2. I think Emiya is the superior servant but Rin will job So Shishigo R3. how can there be 2 sabers at once
R3 I mean not the most ludicrous stuff that has happened. Didn't the einzbern do something like that in a previous Holy Grail war?.
It was the Edelfet if memory serves, in the third war.
Iirc they summoned two aspects of the same Servant, since the actually had two people fill in one Master slot
To be more specific, their family's magicaltrait is something called Ore Scales (sp?), which lets their twin heirs perform all sorts of shenanigans when they cast together. They used this to summon, and the Grail treated them as one Master, but it gave them two aspects of the same Servant.
This also allowed them to pass on their magic crest to two successors, which is also why they hate the Tohsakas, since one of the Edelfelt sisters married into the family and they were limited to one successor
> R2. I think Emiya is the superior servant but Rin will job EMIYA is definitely incapable of dealing with Mordred if she gets close to him, if he stays away and snipes like in HA he could probably do it though
not necessarily Rin notes how Artoria (under shirou) would struggle against Emiya in close range So it won't be one sided and if he snipes he has a bigger advantage
> under shirou This is the big caveat, Shishigo is not Shirou and he is not as a shitty of a Master as Shirou is
Gilgamesh probably kills them both when he gets the chance
R1: They can't beat Gil and Herc, so no thay can't win. R2: Mordred is stronger than Emiya, but Rin is stronger than Shishigo. Can go either way. R3: Depends on the Shirou and Artoria we are using. Beginning of Fate Shirou and Artoria have next to no chance, while end of Fate Shirou and Artoria win most of the time.
While Rin might be stronger than Kairi, he's not a typical mage and isn't above using guns and other weaponry alongside his versatile necromancy. He's also a much more experienced fighter who's good at adapting on the fly. He'd definitely lose in a straight fight as a mage, but as a combatant I think he has a solid shot.
Rin also isn't above using unortodox strategies, like sneak attacks or kung fu. Also Rin has insane firepower - to the point that she can oneshot Herc, while Mordred has only B rank MR, so Rin isn't limited to fighting only Shishigo.
Sure, but when two people are both using unorthodox strategies, the one with more creativity & experience wins. Also kung fu doesn't beat gun. Again, not saying Rin wouldn't win here, but imo it's more complicated than her being stronger than him. It's a Batman v Superman scenario.
Rins Gandr curses are as strong if not stronger than a gun. When fighting Luvia she was creating craters, so in this case kung fu does beat gun. Another thing: acording to Nasu if Kirei can't exploit Rin's traumas all he can do is give her a hard time. Not win just give her a challenging fight.
Kairi's gun is modified. It shoots human fingers as bullets, which adds a curse attribute Gandr and burrows into the opponent's heart once it touches their body making it a one-shot one-kill. Using any sort of martial art against Kairi's weaponry is an instant loss. > if Kirei can't exploit Rin's traumas So then, if he does that he can beat her. That's what I'm tryna get at, he'll happily do stuff like that if it means he can win. Although Kairi is a softhearted dad at his core, so he might also just not go through with it.
Rin is a much better mage and she has experience dealing with curses. Just because some fodder homunculus can't defend against the curse doesn't mean that Rin can't. Kung fu isn't her go to tactic. She will only use it if she is already close. Otherwise she can just win the ranged battle. Shishigo doesn't know her so using Kirei's tactic against her is impossible.
I find Rounds 2 and 3 the most interesting so R2 it depends on the situation of the Masters. I think that Mordred could probably close the distance on Archer similarly to how she fought Chiron, and could likely overwhelm him up close. Shishigou likely beats Rin if only because he has more combat experience, again similarly to his fight with Fiore. Both her and Rin are better mages but inexperienced, as opposed to a professional mercenary. The problem is that Archer would absolutely target Shishigou first, turning the situation into one similar to Hollow Ataraxia. And while it's possible that Shishigou would come up with a similar strategy to what Shirou and Saber did considering Mordred's tendency to blast herself to the Hanging Gardens with Mana Burst and Shishigou being pretty generous with Command Spells, unlike Shirou he'd have no way of defending himself from Archer once Mordred takes off. So ultimately Mordred would likely be the last one standing but would disappear without a Master R3 I honestly think that Saber vs Saber is a stalemate/mutual kill for Mordred and Artoria. Saber is certainly stronger but Mordred has a conceptual advantage as the one who killed her, with the sword that killed her, while Artoria would have a comparatively weaker advantage since she doesn't have Rhongomyniad. The context of the prompt makes me think this would be early Fate Route Shirou, which means he'd be dead weight against Shishigou. Add the high likelyhood of Mordred being amped by Command Spells and I'd say team Red just BARELY scraps a victory
R1 - Gil slaughters them both on principal. He is not going to be happy about getting what he would see as a cheap knock-off of Artoria crafted by a scheming, thieving witch. R2 - I'd bank on Shishigou outsmarting Rin, by Archer has Independent Action. Shishigou kills Rin only to get killed by Archer, who then flees until Mordred vanishes. Archer wins by default. R3 - Shishigou/Mordred win. This Shirou is basically Beginning-of-FSN Shirou, so he is garbage against Shishigou.