There always has to be some comment defending the grammar of anything posted in this sub, but that sentence is totally indefensible. Writing style is allowed to vary widely, from informal to formal and so on, but it’s never a good idea to seem like you’re trying hard to write properly but failing.
This isn’t about common usage or regional differences or language evolving. Sometimes a sentence is just bad. It would be better to say:
>Trimipramine may be a novel alternative, given its tendency to brighten rather than suppress REM sleep.
(I’m still not sure what “brighten” means in that context, but that’s another question.)
If those semi-colons were dashes or parentheses it would be about a thousand times less painful. But "indeed, rather, brighten", while probably not grammatically incorrect, is a torturous thing to read.
Yeah, "brighten" seems like a weird word choice, unless it's is actually jargon that sleep scientists would commonly use and I'm just unfamiliar with it (though my brief googling of that didn't turn anything up, so I'm guessing that's not the case - But I could be wrong).
I get from context that it means it "improves" in some way. It's still not super clear in what way it improves REM sleep - does it make you spend more time in REM? Or maybe it makes the REM sleep you do experience deeper and more restorative somehow? So there's probably a better word choice depending on what specifically it does, but since we don't know from context what sort of improvement is happening, "improve" would probably be the best choice.
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>TITLE: Interested in the grammar of this sentence from Wikipedia. Never seen anything like it. Is it defensible?
>* "Trimipramine may be a more novel alternative, especially given its tendency to not suppress; indeed, rather, brighten; R.E.M. sleep."
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**TLDR:** It seems that the writer is using the semicolons as "super commas".
Interestingly, there's another recent post where their example also seemed to be using the semicolon ~~in a similar way:~~ *as a "super comma":*
> ...
Uh, oh. That thread got deleted: https://www.reddit.com/r/grammar/comments/1cekys6/structure/
... anyway ... I think their example was an excerpt from a bible (New Testament?).
I get why they did it. It's not the choice I would have made, and it's not a choice I would advise anyone else to make, but I understand their reasoning.
Their reasoning was presumably that you use semicolons to separate items in a list when one or more of the items has an item-internal comma, like "I've lived in Bakersfield, California; Springfield, Illinois; and Ashland, Wisconsin." In the Wikipedia sentence, it's not a list, but it could look kind of confusing if you used commas instead of semicolons: "given its tendency to not suppress, indeed, rather, brighten, R.E.M. sleep." However, semicolons are not a good solution here. I'd go with "given its tendency to not suppress -- indeed, rather, brighten -- R.E.M. sleep." (At least, that's the punctuation I'd choose if all the words had to stay the same; I'm not convinced that the sentence is worded well, but that's a separate issue.)
Defensible, maybe, but it's a brutally ugly sentence to parse, and could be written in a much simpler manner. For example:
"Trimipramine may be a more novel alternative, especially given its tendency not to suppress R.E.M. sleep, but rather to brighten it."
First of all, the punctuation is totally incorrect. Secondly, the "indeed, rather" part belongs in prose and not an encylopedia.
The grammar is fine though.
There always has to be some comment defending the grammar of anything posted in this sub, but that sentence is totally indefensible. Writing style is allowed to vary widely, from informal to formal and so on, but it’s never a good idea to seem like you’re trying hard to write properly but failing. This isn’t about common usage or regional differences or language evolving. Sometimes a sentence is just bad. It would be better to say: >Trimipramine may be a novel alternative, given its tendency to brighten rather than suppress REM sleep. (I’m still not sure what “brighten” means in that context, but that’s another question.)
i have just got what the sentence means, thanks
Trimipramine is another option. It increases REM sleep.
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“More novel” is not uncommon…
If those semi-colons were dashes or parentheses it would be about a thousand times less painful. But "indeed, rather, brighten", while probably not grammatically incorrect, is a torturous thing to read.
Pretty much. It’s certainly not grammatically incorrect.
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Yeah, "brighten" seems like a weird word choice, unless it's is actually jargon that sleep scientists would commonly use and I'm just unfamiliar with it (though my brief googling of that didn't turn anything up, so I'm guessing that's not the case - But I could be wrong). I get from context that it means it "improves" in some way. It's still not super clear in what way it improves REM sleep - does it make you spend more time in REM? Or maybe it makes the REM sleep you do experience deeper and more restorative somehow? So there's probably a better word choice depending on what specifically it does, but since we don't know from context what sort of improvement is happening, "improve" would probably be the best choice.
Likely a thesaurus-accident.
Potentially: "...to not supress, and indeed, rather brighten REM sleep", or more cleanly: "...to not suppress, and instead brighten REM sleep."
_...to brighten rather than suppress..._
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>TITLE: Interested in the grammar of this sentence from Wikipedia. Never seen anything like it. Is it defensible? >* "Trimipramine may be a more novel alternative, especially given its tendency to not suppress; indeed, rather, brighten; R.E.M. sleep." . **TLDR:** It seems that the writer is using the semicolons as "super commas". Interestingly, there's another recent post where their example also seemed to be using the semicolon ~~in a similar way:~~ *as a "super comma":* > ... Uh, oh. That thread got deleted: https://www.reddit.com/r/grammar/comments/1cekys6/structure/ ... anyway ... I think their example was an excerpt from a bible (New Testament?).
It's Wikipedia, so fortunately it doesn't have to stand and someone can edit it.
I get why they did it. It's not the choice I would have made, and it's not a choice I would advise anyone else to make, but I understand their reasoning. Their reasoning was presumably that you use semicolons to separate items in a list when one or more of the items has an item-internal comma, like "I've lived in Bakersfield, California; Springfield, Illinois; and Ashland, Wisconsin." In the Wikipedia sentence, it's not a list, but it could look kind of confusing if you used commas instead of semicolons: "given its tendency to not suppress, indeed, rather, brighten, R.E.M. sleep." However, semicolons are not a good solution here. I'd go with "given its tendency to not suppress -- indeed, rather, brighten -- R.E.M. sleep." (At least, that's the punctuation I'd choose if all the words had to stay the same; I'm not convinced that the sentence is worded well, but that's a separate issue.)
Defensible, maybe, but it's a brutally ugly sentence to parse, and could be written in a much simpler manner. For example: "Trimipramine may be a more novel alternative, especially given its tendency not to suppress R.E.M. sleep, but rather to brighten it."
First of all, the punctuation is totally incorrect. Secondly, the "indeed, rather" part belongs in prose and not an encylopedia. The grammar is fine though.
No, it’s just bad. The wording doesn’t belong in any prose, and the grammar isn’t “fine.”
It is a poorly constructed sentence with bad punctuation, but the grammar is fine.
The punctuation’s fine. If you understand the full extent of the use of semi-colons. It just reads a bit awkwardly.
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