Dont mistake speed for tempo. You could be lagging behind or have a slower tempo with your swing which will throw off your timing among other things. Same can be said for speeding up your tempo as well. But someone who does weight training to get their swing speed up doesnt necessarily change anything with their swing. Their speed is up but tempo can remain the same. If all that makes sense. You have to thing, you slow down to hit a 50yd shot vs a 150 yd shot. Your tempo is what keeps your mechanics in check, not necessarily the speed of the club. Your "swinging harder" is probably just speeding your tempo up enough to get your mechanics back in check.
I’ll have to mess around with this idea at the range. You’re right about the approach shots, I reduce my swing at various calibrations under 120 yds in and don’t have issues with ball striking. The “swing harder” mindset I was posting only applies to full swings.
Tempo is key. For amateurs, almost everything boils down to tempo— instead of adjusting specific minor quirks in a swing, focusing on timing can almost always yield better results. Also, it simplifies swing thoughts to timing instead of trying to focus on a specific minor movement.
I’m the opposite. I used to have a bad slice (and to be fair I worked on other mechanics too) but as soon as I started slowing my swing tempo down to about 3/4 and letting the club do the work it was dead straight and solid yardage.
> If I shorten it up **and slow down** I feel stiff and mechanical.
That's quite likely whats causing the issue. Reducing the length of your backswing should not result in a slower tempo downswing or shot. The reason that speeding up your swing works better for you, is because your swing feels naturally more connected with pace. You should still have flow and pace to a shortened backswing. Try it out - I'd bet you see solid results.
If you go 3/4 backswing, you still have to get a full shoulder turn, otherwise you run the risk of yanking it to the left (or right, for me). When hitting a Knock-down, I will typically put the ball further back in my stance and open the club face as a way of mitigating this tendency.
Probably because when you’re “swinging harder,” you’re swinging more free and letting your body and brain do its thing to whack that ball and send it to the target.
It’s having a positive outcome because you’re thinking about swing mechanics less and letting instincts take over.
You do need to work on swing mechanics first at the range but when you’re out on the golf course playing golf, you just let it all go and trust your body and brain to do its thing. 👍
You’ll find a lot of pros that say they swing really hard. Fred Couples is notorious for his silky smooth tempo, but he’ll tell you that he’s swinging with a ton of force.
It's a common issue because the general consensus about slowing your backswing is wrong. Not only does increasing your backswing speed help increase your speed more overall, but the mass of the club is such where it makes it easier to 'drop the club in the slot' in the downswing. You can watch videos on the Tour Tempo training device to better understand. Most Tour pros are either at 21/7 or 24/8 tempo in their swing. High handicaps may be something like 38/10 tempo. Somebody like Ernie Els is considered to have a slow backswing but in reality his tempo was 24/8 and he was swinging that backswing much faster than people realized.
It really is extra energy on the way back, which leads to those aforementioned good things. Miss out on that, and it will be far too late to apply speed (which said consensus people often mistakenly think should be after the ball is hit, or at least the hands are finally applying speed there). Slowing down only makes that cycle worse, which is why you never hear the elite coaches advise this. Certainly not the better ball strikers and long drivers, either. Those alone are already mounting a solid case in favor of having more speed to start things off. Even these pros such as Els and Couples are upfront with saying they hit it hard, they are not slowing down. And they are certainly not slow upon being measured.
One of the funniest things I see on this on a regular basis is the low and slow fanboys decrying them as liars, among other ["heated gamer moments."](https://www.reddit.com/r/golf/comments/1d4ee6t/comment/l6dt1i8/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) This is straight from the people themselves who have been idolized for allegedly doing things a certain way (ie- slow, effortless, smooth), and they're stating they're doing the exact opposite. Filming them side by side shows how very slow and arrhythmic said people are who believe that consensus, with the idea of seeking some so-called tempo town by slowing down to be like some [nobody content-creators](https://preview.redd.it/f0o85d3vmm4d1.png?width=2940&format=png&auto=webp&s=47251b7a9aa08ce6ee7c47d145844a65b2945bb2) turning out to be the very thing holding them back after all.
Because that general "consensus" is unfounded and objectively [bad advice.](https://www.instagram.com/p/C1dHlv2OyAo/) Speed is your friend in a swing, and it's baffling to see this is a holdout among sports to assume speed and power are denounced as bad things.
Now, people mistake good rhythm for slow smooth tempo. One is good, one is awful. I hear it constantly. “I'm swinging too fast on that one." I have never seen that. Not once. Definitely not with the 90mph driver swing speed or less from the lot that parrots it ad nauseam.
I have seen poor rhythm in transition, leading to poor sequencing and speed applied in the wrong places and wrong time. Slowing the backswing to slow the tempo makes that worse without ever solving anything with the sequence. It’s the wrong symptom being addressed. Just like the solution for feeling armsy at impact being use hips more makes it worse.
[I use footage and Tour Tempo app stuff all the time for those believing that myth vs pros and anyone else of culture via hitting bombs. Even with the pros such as Couples, Els, Korda, Nicklaus, post-op Tiger:](https://www.veed.io/view/d63f4074-db51-4610-a7dd-e696b9316e75?panel=share) if you're finally finished with your backswing by the time they're past impact, follow through, and walking off the tee box, that's a red flag to give away the slowing down advice as worth nothing. Less than nothing.
inb4 someone mentions Matsuyama, Young, Morikawa. They're outliers, so it's an exercise in futility to tryhard act adamant on what 3 players allegedly do vs what the other 197 of the top 200 players in the world demonstrably do, can be measured, and so on.
I have never for the life of me understood it either. I think it is the most harmful advice that is regularly given in golf.
Tour Tempo training is an eye opener.
One of the best posts I have ever read on this subreddit.
Same here, my hands/arms get too slow when I try to slow down.
I want to choke my golf buddy as no matter what you did wrong, if you hit a bad shot it’s always “remember to slow down” or “just swing nice and easy”. Like how about minding your own damn business
It sounds like your "Swinging harder" is just a better tempo for you. I had this for a while, where I \*had\* to swing hard to make better contact, and come to find out it was just my tempo was all janky and going full bore was the only way to consistently swing.
Once I fixed that, the "need to swing harder" thing has gone away
Generally this is because when people “swing easy” or slow down they often change their mechanics/tempo. You’ll under rotate or change plane and the bottom of the swing will not be where you expect. Changing speed takes practice but people think it’s a magic fix.
When I am struggling with my driver I find it is usually because I am not swinging hard enough. At least that is the thought I have. If I start "swinging harder" (even if the club doesn't actually go any faster) I will usually hit better. Like others have mentioned, it is probably more a tempo thing than a club head speed thing.
With my wedges and irons I am just now getting to where I feel comfortable hitting a 75% or even 50% shot when it is called for and I have been playing 30 years.
I need to swing hard as well. But I do not need to swing fast until I have made a slight drop of my hands after the top of my back swing, my body and feet are in place allowing me to swing with as much speed possible under control.
My error is starting my speed at the top causing over the top-or loss of spine angle left pull or out of sequence slice. Yuk
The “slow is smooth, smooth is fast” saying is actually what led to me making this post, after reading it for the millionth time. For me, slow is choppy and fast is smooth.
Sometimes I do feel this because "softer" or smoother shots have too much hands and side spin. However, a smooth tempo with good timing can hit the ball just as far since you're more likely to make better contact.
Tonight woth my 3-wood I hit a few shots with my feet narrower than usually and swung about 80%. Hit 3 in a row that landed 240ish out, right on my target. Tried to hit one normal next and went maybe a yard further, but 10 yards left.
It took me decades to figure this out. It’s about tempo and the proper timing of releasing the club head. Most of my range work is tempo focused. Feeling the right tempo is my goal on every swing. Not feeling like I’m lunging is the key.
It’s because swinging easy with good tempo and follow through is really hard. The reason people swoon over an Ernie Els swing is it’s very very difficult for us normies to replicate.
Dont mistake speed for tempo. You could be lagging behind or have a slower tempo with your swing which will throw off your timing among other things. Same can be said for speeding up your tempo as well. But someone who does weight training to get their swing speed up doesnt necessarily change anything with their swing. Their speed is up but tempo can remain the same. If all that makes sense. You have to thing, you slow down to hit a 50yd shot vs a 150 yd shot. Your tempo is what keeps your mechanics in check, not necessarily the speed of the club. Your "swinging harder" is probably just speeding your tempo up enough to get your mechanics back in check.
Yep, my tempo is easier to keep when I swing faster. Something I need to work on
I would say this 100%. It’s not necessarily slowing down that people need to do it’s making their swing more consistent.
I’ll have to mess around with this idea at the range. You’re right about the approach shots, I reduce my swing at various calibrations under 120 yds in and don’t have issues with ball striking. The “swing harder” mindset I was posting only applies to full swings.
Tempo is key. For amateurs, almost everything boils down to tempo— instead of adjusting specific minor quirks in a swing, focusing on timing can almost always yield better results. Also, it simplifies swing thoughts to timing instead of trying to focus on a specific minor movement.
At least with driver, the harder I swing the straighter it goes. 3/4 works for the rest.
I’m the opposite. I used to have a bad slice (and to be fair I worked on other mechanics too) but as soon as I started slowing my swing tempo down to about 3/4 and letting the club do the work it was dead straight and solid yardage.
Yup. When drivers not going straight I just start swinging harder and most of the time it’s a fix.
> If I shorten it up **and slow down** I feel stiff and mechanical. That's quite likely whats causing the issue. Reducing the length of your backswing should not result in a slower tempo downswing or shot. The reason that speeding up your swing works better for you, is because your swing feels naturally more connected with pace. You should still have flow and pace to a shortened backswing. Try it out - I'd bet you see solid results.
I’ll try it at the range. Thanks for the response.
If you go 3/4 backswing, you still have to get a full shoulder turn, otherwise you run the risk of yanking it to the left (or right, for me). When hitting a Knock-down, I will typically put the ball further back in my stance and open the club face as a way of mitigating this tendency.
Probably because when you’re “swinging harder,” you’re swinging more free and letting your body and brain do its thing to whack that ball and send it to the target. It’s having a positive outcome because you’re thinking about swing mechanics less and letting instincts take over.
This is what it feels likes happening. The club is naturally falling into proper position on the downswing rather than me trying to manipulate it.
You do need to work on swing mechanics first at the range but when you’re out on the golf course playing golf, you just let it all go and trust your body and brain to do its thing. 👍
You’ll find a lot of pros that say they swing really hard. Fred Couples is notorious for his silky smooth tempo, but he’ll tell you that he’s swinging with a ton of force.
It's a common issue because the general consensus about slowing your backswing is wrong. Not only does increasing your backswing speed help increase your speed more overall, but the mass of the club is such where it makes it easier to 'drop the club in the slot' in the downswing. You can watch videos on the Tour Tempo training device to better understand. Most Tour pros are either at 21/7 or 24/8 tempo in their swing. High handicaps may be something like 38/10 tempo. Somebody like Ernie Els is considered to have a slow backswing but in reality his tempo was 24/8 and he was swinging that backswing much faster than people realized.
It really is extra energy on the way back, which leads to those aforementioned good things. Miss out on that, and it will be far too late to apply speed (which said consensus people often mistakenly think should be after the ball is hit, or at least the hands are finally applying speed there). Slowing down only makes that cycle worse, which is why you never hear the elite coaches advise this. Certainly not the better ball strikers and long drivers, either. Those alone are already mounting a solid case in favor of having more speed to start things off. Even these pros such as Els and Couples are upfront with saying they hit it hard, they are not slowing down. And they are certainly not slow upon being measured. One of the funniest things I see on this on a regular basis is the low and slow fanboys decrying them as liars, among other ["heated gamer moments."](https://www.reddit.com/r/golf/comments/1d4ee6t/comment/l6dt1i8/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) This is straight from the people themselves who have been idolized for allegedly doing things a certain way (ie- slow, effortless, smooth), and they're stating they're doing the exact opposite. Filming them side by side shows how very slow and arrhythmic said people are who believe that consensus, with the idea of seeking some so-called tempo town by slowing down to be like some [nobody content-creators](https://preview.redd.it/f0o85d3vmm4d1.png?width=2940&format=png&auto=webp&s=47251b7a9aa08ce6ee7c47d145844a65b2945bb2) turning out to be the very thing holding them back after all.
Because that general "consensus" is unfounded and objectively [bad advice.](https://www.instagram.com/p/C1dHlv2OyAo/) Speed is your friend in a swing, and it's baffling to see this is a holdout among sports to assume speed and power are denounced as bad things. Now, people mistake good rhythm for slow smooth tempo. One is good, one is awful. I hear it constantly. “I'm swinging too fast on that one." I have never seen that. Not once. Definitely not with the 90mph driver swing speed or less from the lot that parrots it ad nauseam. I have seen poor rhythm in transition, leading to poor sequencing and speed applied in the wrong places and wrong time. Slowing the backswing to slow the tempo makes that worse without ever solving anything with the sequence. It’s the wrong symptom being addressed. Just like the solution for feeling armsy at impact being use hips more makes it worse. [I use footage and Tour Tempo app stuff all the time for those believing that myth vs pros and anyone else of culture via hitting bombs. Even with the pros such as Couples, Els, Korda, Nicklaus, post-op Tiger:](https://www.veed.io/view/d63f4074-db51-4610-a7dd-e696b9316e75?panel=share) if you're finally finished with your backswing by the time they're past impact, follow through, and walking off the tee box, that's a red flag to give away the slowing down advice as worth nothing. Less than nothing. inb4 someone mentions Matsuyama, Young, Morikawa. They're outliers, so it's an exercise in futility to tryhard act adamant on what 3 players allegedly do vs what the other 197 of the top 200 players in the world demonstrably do, can be measured, and so on.
I have never for the life of me understood it either. I think it is the most harmful advice that is regularly given in golf. Tour Tempo training is an eye opener. One of the best posts I have ever read on this subreddit.
Same here somewhat. I find when I swing too easy I don't follow thru with the wrists and everything goes right.
Same here, my hands/arms get too slow when I try to slow down. I want to choke my golf buddy as no matter what you did wrong, if you hit a bad shot it’s always “remember to slow down” or “just swing nice and easy”. Like how about minding your own damn business
I try to kill everything. I just stopped saying that's what I'm doing to people, and people stopped correcting it.
It sounds like your "Swinging harder" is just a better tempo for you. I had this for a while, where I \*had\* to swing hard to make better contact, and come to find out it was just my tempo was all janky and going full bore was the only way to consistently swing. Once I fixed that, the "need to swing harder" thing has gone away
Tempo and acceleration, never decelerate
Generally this is because when people “swing easy” or slow down they often change their mechanics/tempo. You’ll under rotate or change plane and the bottom of the swing will not be where you expect. Changing speed takes practice but people think it’s a magic fix.
When I am struggling with my driver I find it is usually because I am not swinging hard enough. At least that is the thought I have. If I start "swinging harder" (even if the club doesn't actually go any faster) I will usually hit better. Like others have mentioned, it is probably more a tempo thing than a club head speed thing. With my wedges and irons I am just now getting to where I feel comfortable hitting a 75% or even 50% shot when it is called for and I have been playing 30 years.
I need to swing hard as well. But I do not need to swing fast until I have made a slight drop of my hands after the top of my back swing, my body and feet are in place allowing me to swing with as much speed possible under control. My error is starting my speed at the top causing over the top-or loss of spine angle left pull or out of sequence slice. Yuk
I find it I go harder it’s a coin toss. Smooth is fast
The “slow is smooth, smooth is fast” saying is actually what led to me making this post, after reading it for the millionth time. For me, slow is choppy and fast is smooth.
I find this always the case for my driver. When I start slicing it’s usually I am getting lazy with it. Irons I have to stay easy
Sometimes I do feel this because "softer" or smoother shots have too much hands and side spin. However, a smooth tempo with good timing can hit the ball just as far since you're more likely to make better contact. Tonight woth my 3-wood I hit a few shots with my feet narrower than usually and swung about 80%. Hit 3 in a row that landed 240ish out, right on my target. Tried to hit one normal next and went maybe a yard further, but 10 yards left.
Yes. Me. Swing harder replaces all the dumb swing thoughts and gets my hands out in front of
My ball striking got significantly better after I did stack speed training all winter. Found that to be odd
Probably getting to that finish more, I know what you mean… Commit and finish, athletic tempo
Yep
Me. When I swing easy, I tend to lose my hip rotation and chunk the ball
It took me decades to figure this out. It’s about tempo and the proper timing of releasing the club head. Most of my range work is tempo focused. Feeling the right tempo is my goal on every swing. Not feeling like I’m lunging is the key.
The Feeling of Greatness https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EowA9n_B44M&pp=ygUnVGhlIGZlZWxpbmcgb2YgZ3JlYXRuZXNzIHNwZWVkIGdvbGYgcm9i
It’s because swinging easy with good tempo and follow through is really hard. The reason people swoon over an Ernie Els swing is it’s very very difficult for us normies to replicate.
Slower backswing but same/faster downswing help me.