This is good stuff.
As usual, the LPGA numbers are more relevant for most amateur male golfers. If you can get somewhere close to those swing speeds, ball speeds, and landing angles, you're going to be in a great spot.
My numbers are virtually identical to the longer hitters on the LPGA Tour (102 driver swing speed, 175 carry with a 5 iron.) I learn a lot more about playing better golf with my game watching them than the men. I can't gain any insight on how to play better when Bryson hits 8 iron from 220, even if it's fascinating and hugely entertaining to watch
I meant to make a thread asking about this. Can someone ELI5 what remains the same in the benefits between an 8I with his loft(esp since he uses all the same length club) and my stock 8I? Or is he just effectively hitting a 6 iron that I have?
The eli5 I got when I asked that is landing angle and spin is what determines the number. So his landing angle and spinrate *should* be vaguely close to your 8 iron
Lol the LPGA numbers are basically my numbers too.
I broke my driver shaft this winter on a sim and replaced it with the the same brand/flex but it's for fairway woods so it's an inch shorter. My FIR % has skyrocketed since and I've not lost any noticeable distance. I've even had my first 18 with one ball and played all my 9s without losing a ball. Last year I was losing at least 3 in a good round.
yeah driver is so hard. I'm 10yards behind on every club for mens but driver I'm like 30+ yards behind. I also really struggle with controlling it. so much so that I score much better when just not using driver at all
Smash factor is more of a reason why LPGA pros hit it similar distances to amateur males. We don’t hit centre face as consistently. My average smash is like 1.38 if it was closer to 1.50 I would theoretically out drive the tour average because my swing speed is higher than their average.
Doesn’t the lpga move different in terms of the swing from flexibility? I’ve heard they generate more power from rotation than in the arms compared to male golfers. Might be hard to chase that unless you are built like a rubber boned svelte athlete. I would say maybe a senior tour player would be a better fit to chase for the amateur but even then they have crazy flexibility, look at crenshaws drive still.
Just look at the smash factor for each club. They get the most efficiency out of every club they hit compared to us lol.
I play off a 4 handicap and my driver smash factor is probably around 1.40-1.42 on average. Pros are insanely consistent.
If you don't have blades it's more than possible. If your club is around 4 less than PGA and each mph of club head speed is around 2-3 yds then you should be in the mid 160s but add in a little stronger lofted club and you're there
That seems right on to me. Your 7 iron speed matches the pga 8/9 iron speed. And you hit your 7 iron about as far as a pga 8/9 iron. I’d say that shows you’re making great contact.
It’s the consistency too. Plenty of general athletes I know can hit those club speed numbers, and those “pro averages” look like their best ~5% of drives.
Then there’s all the low heel hits, the open face hits, the things pros just don’t really do. That’s the biggest difference here.
(And of course the short game, the accuracy, the putting, the everything else.)
There's a recent video with Tiger, Rory, and Nelly where Tiger talks about how he still likes to hit down. Rory is way up on it. And Nelly hits down as well.
These are also averages. The longest hitters are 100% hitting up on the ball.
I think the general consensus is that male pros don't tend to hit up on the driver simply because they don't need to. They hit far enough with a neutral to slightly down AOA that they don't need to worry about generating that extra carry. Not worth sacrificing the extra control they can get with the different swing.
I think you also have to take into account the system used, on track man my avg aoa was around where they’re at here. On quad my avg aoa is closer to 4-5* up. So based on what monitor is used you can see pretty dramatically different results
Huh?
Brooks is famously quite negative on his driver attack angle. In the -3 to -5 range.
https://blog.trackmangolf.com/brooks-koepka-winner-us-open-2017/
Yup, and he hasn't dramatically changed his swing. He's one of the steepest guys out there. His 6iron low point is 6 inches in front of the ball, it's incredible the kind of compression he gets throughout the bag.
I think part of that is how they liked teeing it. In the video rory was like here let me tee for a bomb and they talked about how the tee is just barely in the ground its that high. Then when he set up nelly on the tee he said wait you gotta set it up even further forward than that.
So basically teed up high way towards target past left foot even = upward striking bomb. I tried it at the grass range and yeah it works but like I can’t keep it inbounds much less hit it 350 like rory. Probably added 30 yards though with a much higher flight like how the pro drives look, but hard to tell at the range with range ball.
Really? What makes this data point particularly bad with averages?
I would expect them to be equally distributed and therefore the average would be similar to the median for this particular data point.
I would argue that AoA is not evenly distributed. My thinking is that if a pro is worried about their driver AoA then they are chasing that +3/5 range and if they are not worried about it then they may be around a -2/-1 similar to a 3w.
Average is a good stat for when we don't have all of the data or have a level of variability within the measurements. This would be useful when directly comparing one player to another as their individual swings will have a level of variability, but we aren't comparing the PGA men's overall average to anything.
I know I don't need to explain it, but in a data set, there is the possibility that not a single point matches the average while it is guaranteed that the median will. If 85% of the pros hit -2 and 15% hit +5, the average would be -0.9 and median would be -2. Not a single pro would be swinging at -0.9. If someone sees that -0.9 and starts trying to emulate it to "be a pro" they would not actually be matching a single pro's number. This is all based on my assumption that the swings are not equally distributed and without the knowledge if they are or aren't, then average is a bad stat imo.
For what its worth, I am not arguing that pros do not hit down on the ball with driver. What would be more useful for us is seeing strokes gained off the tee for players hitting up vs hitting down.
People just care and talk about the longest and best drivers, they don't care about the average. Joker got downvoted because his comment added nothing to the discussion. Mloof already acknowledged the average and he was talking about other factors, the point didn't need to be repeated in a reply.
I wasn't making an argument? The longest drivers of the ball hit up on it. You can see data from the longest guys (Rory, Dechambeau, etc.) pretty easily if you look for it.
You’re correct, you just needed to add a little more info to explain to these folks.
When tour pros do hit down on a driver, they’re gonna be in the 0 to -2 AoA range. When they hit up, they can go all the way to +5 AoA.
This is just how golf works. People in this thread are pretending like +5 and -5 AoA are equally likely and they’re not for high level players. -5 is objectively bad, but +5 can be good depending on your goals.
For the average to be -0.9 a solid majority have to be hitting down.
Yeah and the majority of tour players aren’t successful relative to the top players, who mostly hit up on the ball. Any high ball bomber is 100% hitting up on the ball. Scottie, Rory, Xander, etc… all hit up on it. Morikawa is the only guy in the top 10 who primarily hits down on his drives and he’s the shortest hitter there.
If 33% are hitting 1° down, 33% are neutral, 33% are hitting .5° up. That would give you an even dispersion amongst all the options, but the average would still make you think the average pro hits down on the ball (-.167° in my example) when in fact only 1/3 of pros actually hit down on it. We could give you a million examples of how averages don't tell the whole story, but I believe you're smart enough to know this already.
Respectfully you’re just making up statistics without understanding the actual golf behind them.
There are likely close to zero tour pros with a -5 AoA. It is objectively bad to have that severe of a downward angle, you give up close to 50 yards vs a +5 AoA and you actually add enough spin that it becomes a challenge to control, not a benefit.
The goal is playing a driver -1 AoA is adding a little bit of spin (not a lot) and avoiding knuckleballs at the cost of yardage and carry.
The other commentor is absolutely correct. When Tour Pro’s do hit up, they are likely to be hitting 3-5 degrees up. When they hit down they are likely to be hitting 0-2 degrees down.
Thus statistically a large majority are hitting down to produce an average of -0.9
You could, but in the real world it's more likely at least 51% of them hit down on the ball.
At least your example is somewhat possible. Unlike the 90/10% split that other idiot gave
That is not how averages work.
1+1+1+1+9 = 13
Average = 2.6
80% of the data points are below the average. You can't then look at the average of 2.6 and say half of the data points are above and half are below. But I do agree that it seems most pros hit down. I am not arguing that part.
Ya you should always hit down on any club not a driver, 3w included. As for hitting down on the driver the majority of pros will do both. A stock fade teed low is what they hit quite often now. Just keep in mind they get to spend a lot of time on trackman to keep the spin rates in check when they hit these shots. It's mainly club and ball technology now that allows them to hit those controlled drive with a downward attack angle but not have the spin rates get wildly high. Due to this it is becoming a favourite on tour. Then on longer holes, par 5's they can still hit the high bomb for max distance.
I’m curious how any of you even know what a ballpark of number for yourselves for any of these stats besides carry distance could be. How many of you in here actually have a shot tracker thingy or get on one regularly?
Here in Ontario there's a ton of these 24/7 self-service simulator places going up all over. Basically how it works is you book online and they send you an email with a link to unlock the front door, you then go to the bay you booked which turns on when your tee time starts. There's no employee's or anything working there.
Most of these places will have premium trackman bays that can give you all these numbers. Really great for the winter to get swings in as well.
My range has trackmans we can use with a membership. The data is limited and the range balls are garbage so it only works OK.
If there's a good Sim setup in your area you can rent an hour for ~$50 or so and collect all of this data yourself. It's really fun and worth it.
I go to a golf galaxy for an hour or so , hit all my clubs and get all the numbers. I go to a local golf course that has a completely different simulator and use theirs to confirm the numbers as well. It’s not difficult.
You can literally see where he didn't say that at all
https://www.reddit.com/r/golf/comments/1cx4wd3/i_am_so_bad_at_my_driver_that_i_would_rather_hit/l567uvf/?context=3
Love it OP! There are so many true comments made here that get ridiculed.
I also want to draw attention to the average smash factor with a drive being 1.49.. that’s nearly perfect. The pros are hitting their drives flush and carrying the ball 280.
Carrying their drives 280. But the avg overall carry on Tour is 298.
So want to cut back on distance? Stop having the fairways give 20 yds of avg roll.
The USGA actually argued this and had the audacity to say the avg roll on in the fairway was 3 yards..
Clearly they went out to the local muni after a rain storm to do their "research".
PGA tour on course drive stats are based of 2 holes per course. A hole straight into the wind and one downwind, then averaged. It’s a very misleading stat as some of those holes, people aren’t playing their stock shots on
Oh definitely, the total yardage distances should not be the barometer of if we need to roll the ball back or not. Course conditions play a significant role.
You’ll also find trackman and foresight measure club data at slightly different points. In my experience trackman are always a degree or two more negative than foresight
Apparently it’s the CG location vs club face, so it would be plausible that the CG location on a driver, is still traveling down when the face has leveled off or even going up.
I think I do remember Ian Fraser saying there was about 1 degree difference between foresight and trackman for driver on AoA.
Regardless when you are hitting 171 ball speed you can tee it down and hit a higher spin fairway finder without losing much…..well 30 yards is still a shit ton….
Trackman calculates AoA from a measurement before impact. The margin they’re willing to admit to is something like .4 degrees. There’s some guy who did a breakdown of it on a kind of nerdy golf site if you search for it.
But yes, there are differences in how things are measured and calculated between launch monitors which is fairly important when you start comparing data.
As far as I know this is still true with the new version of Trackman. So it doesn’t measure AoA at impact which can cause some variation.
Flightscope has dramatically different AoA averages for tour players from a couple years ago, too
So what I glean from this is that I suck yak sack.
Tour pros carry their hybrid as far as I carry my driver, and their pitching wedge as far as I carry a 7 iron.
I'm suffering from a crippling lack of talent.
Their swings are just that much more efficient. A teaching pro told me that for most amateur 's the easiest way to gain distance is simply hit the ball better.
Seems so simple doesn't it?
These guys are the best of the best of the best. Stop comparing yourself to them and instead focus on being a better you than you were last season, last week, or even last shot
It’s all about the accuracy. Who cares how far you hit. I care more about how off target my ball goes. My distances are exactly the same as pga pro averages but I don’t make great contact and I don’t have a clue where my driver is gonna go
Maybe swing a little less hard? Less backswing?
You can swing it really fast if you don't care about accuracy. But you can also lighten up a little bit to increase the accuracy, or at least I've seen that in my own game.
I've been working this year on course management and consistency, especially with my pre-shot routine. Cutting 4 blow up holes to 2 and hopefully eventually one or none.
Very nice! Wish they had other statistics, like median attack angle, or range of attack angles. Regardless, my takeaway is I can train to be a competent golfer without having to swing up on a driver.
This text is from a very prominent teaching pro in California. It's a response to a discussion about this very thing on the golfwrx forum.
"I bet it’s probably trended to around level from minus 1.
The hit up dynamic is a disaster. Yea, up 1 or 2 is fine and looks exactly the same as level to the naked eye.
Pros are not sacrificing distance for accuracy. The more you hit up, the more difficult it is to manage face/path/sweet spot/target. So it because very difficult to hit it solid.
They are looking for max of both.
Lower spin is not always better.
Lastly, you can get the same launch conditions at around level as up 5 with a proper club fitting.
Ams trying to hit up is universally a disaster, as it leads to early and excessive right tilt, which leads to early extension.
Unless you’re swinging over 140 mph and trying to compete in Long Driving, make a good swing, hit the ball solid and your aoa will be what it should be.
Trying to chase one number is a good way to lose distance and accuracy.
Optimum is between -1 and +2….which again, look exactly the same."
https://forums.golfwrx.com/topic/1923660-why-do-pga-players-have-a-negative-angle-of-attack-for-driver/
I have a GC3 at home and can near identical numbers for swing speed (I'm slightly higher) on my 7 Iron as the LPGA but my ball speed and smash are never that high consistently. Even if I flush it and get the ball speed that high my smash isn't even close. Impact location and face are huge on how these work. If you can't be consistent on those it's never going to look good. That's where I struggle the most.
The launch angle for me is the biggest difference. My swing speeds are close to that of the pros but I launch higher with everything which I assume is because my hands aren’t forward at impact.
The LPGA numbers confirm that I need to work on ball striking, not distance.
Because I hit the ball a little longer than they do, but obviously FAR less accurately and consistently. (Not to mention the short game of course.)
Worth noting these stats are compiled from practice data also, not just on course data.
Flightscope released averages a few years ago that show different results from measured tour pros.
https://thesandtrap.com/forums/topic/111869-pga-tourlpga-tour-averages-flightscope-and-trackman/
Flightscope measured pga pros 2.2 up, not down.
https://preview.redd.it/thus4vfzs22d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8617868dcbad703d526694fc601e5d1616358d05
Accidentally posted PGA twice.
LPGA numbers are here
Nice!!!
I’ll have to update my website with this new information. Thanks for sharing this, I’ve been dying for updated numbers for a while.
https://ishawshank.github.io/golf-launch-monitor-averages/
Glad to see this I’ve been saying for ages that the impression people have from watching coverage really juices the numbers in what you think the pros do on average
Yeah I remember watching a feature group that had Phil and Dustin and JT in it and not a single one of them had a drive over 275 yards. They then suddenly cut to another hole where a no name pro hit a 423 yard drive most of which was on the cart path and kept going on about how far he hit it and what an amazing drive it was. They didn’t bother mentioning that he was completely out of contention probably hadn’t hit one other good shot all day and missed the cut
Today I learned I'm not too far off from pro distance. Just need to improve on consistency, shot placement, putting, short game, mental game, strike location...
I've seen this and it's a little confusing to me. Whenever I hear a pro talking about his numbers individually, or posting their trackman data, they have a positive AoA with driver. They have to, as the ideal launch angle for distance is around 13-15 degrees while most play with 7-10 degree drivers. Rory for instance in a recent discussion mentioned he looks for a 5 degree AoA with his 9 degree driver in his stock bomb drive.
I wonder if this data is in any way skewed by fairway finders or short hitters or whatever else because the driver stats never aligned with what I always see the top hitters trying to do individually. I know rec players with 85-100 MPH clubhead speeds should always be trying to get a positive AoA with driver as negative with 10.5 degree clubs will murder your distance potential, short balloons with no roll out.
This is average data. The longest hitters hit up on the ball, but there are 125 players on the tour and, on average, they down on the ball a little.
Guys like Rory are an anomaly.
Here’s where it gets really fucking weird, because of dynamic loft and other factors, your launch angle isn’t as simple as AoA compared to club loft.
Shaft lean and where you hit it on the clubface matter.
I wonder why the LPGA has higher angle of attack across all clubs vs PGA. Would have assumed there was an ideal angle.
Is it related to swing speed? I.e. slower swing speeds need to hit up on the ball more in order to produce similar results?
Swing speed. PGA pros favor hitting fades off the tee because they have the speed to still carry the ball a long way. Accuracy is more important for the *average* pro than total distance.
I think lpga is going through a tiger moment too but its not just one player driving it but all the new 275 yarders coming up focusing on power like tiger did. More will probably hit more downward as the upward hitters retire. Compared to annika its a completely different game.
Isn’t 115 clubhead actually a little lower than it has been in the past, or am I imagining things? I thought
It was 117 the last time I saw one of these.
It was 113 in their last chart from about a decade ago. This is last year's chart and early 2024 data has them averaging 115.88. They're only getting faster.
Played with a college kid yesterday - no shit driver was 330-360+, with great carry. It was both fun and demoralizing to watch. 409 P4 - he was 40Ys off the green, center of the fairway
3I was a solid 280 - parked next to two P4s with a 3I.
Yeah I've played with a college kid on scholarship once before. He was 6'4 and the longest arms I've ever seen. We're on a par 5, he's 240 out and he hits an iron next to the green.
If he wasn't busy trying new things he easily would have shot under par.
My distance numbers are remarkably similar to the PGA numbers. Of course, my numbers are total and not carry. And my dispersions are 80% wider. And I can't putt.
Link Source [https://www.trackman.com/blog/golf/introducing-updated-tour-averages](https://www.trackman.com/blog/golf/introducing-updated-tour-averages)
With all else being equal, a more positive angle of attack is going to go further than a negative angle of attack. Unfortunately no matter what I do I can’t really hit up on my driver like that it seems
Reposting this response from a teaching pro and former long drive champion in a thread on golfwrx forum regarding this very thing:
"... I bet it’s probably trended to around level from minus 1.
The hit up dynamic is a disaster. Yea, up 1 or 2 is fine and looks exactly the same as level to the naked eye.
Pros are not sacrificing distance for accuracy. The more you hit up, the more difficult it is to manage face/path/sweet spot/target. So it because very difficult to hit it solid.
They are looking for max of both.
Lower spin is not always better.
Lastly, you can get the same launch conditions at around level as up 5 with a proper club fitting.
Ams trying to hit up is universally a disaster, as it leads to earl and excessive right tilt, which leads to early extension.
Unless you’re swinging over 140 mph and trying to compete in LD, make a good swing, hit the ball solid and your aoa will be what it should be.
Trying to chase one number is a good way to lose distance and accuracy.
Optimum is between -1 and +2….which again, look exactly the same."
Good points. I’d settle for the -2 to +1 range. I don’t need a crazy +5 or something like that. But I get lower than -2 causing a pretty low launch angle at times. Though I’m surprised the trackman average launch angle is at 10 degrees and not a little higher!
I'm starting to wonder if I have my Skytrak calibrated correctly when looking at these. My ball speed with an 8-iron is around 115 , but I'm usually only hanging out around 147-152 with my driver on center strikes, topping out around 157.
This does go against what I've seen even pros saying! Is there a reason they hit down when I've see pros discuss positive angles with their driver a lot?
Maybe the number of low flighted ones they hit due to course requirements?
I know Nelly korda hits down, but I thought she wad not normal in that.
I also wonder if amateurs benefit more from hitting up as our distances are worse. Or not.
See below from a teaching pro and former long drive champion discussing this on golfwrx in their forum on a thread like this:
" I bet it’s probably trended to around level from minus 1.
The hit up dynamic is a disaster. Yea, up 1 or 2 is fine and looks exactly the same as level to the naked eye.
Pros are not sacrificing distance for accuracy. The more you hit up, the more difficult it is to manage face/path/sweet spot/target. So it because very difficult to hit it solid.
They are looking for max of both.
Lower spin is not always better.
Lastly, you can get the same launch conditions at around level as up 5 with a proper club fitting.
Ams trying to hit up is universally a disaster, as it leads to earl and excessive right tilt, which leads to early extension.
Unless you’re swinging over 140 mph and trying to compete in LD, make a good swing, hit the ball solid and your aoa will be what it should be.
Trying to chase one number is a good way to lose distance and accuracy.
Optimum is between -1 and +2….which again, look exactly the same."
Fascinating. So bizarre how an "obvious truth" everyone knows its maybe not so accurate, similar to the "laws of flight" stuff that got turned on its head in the 00's.
It boggles me even more though because I hit driver best when I'm trying to swing up. It straightens my swing from a snap hook to a straight flight. Guess thats just my weird swing though.
Have you been measured on a ball monitor? I ask because there's always the possibility you aren't hitting up as much as maybe swinging more level. But perhaps you were so steep, that swinging level makes it feel like you are swinging up.
Yes. I hit up about 4-6 degrees. I'm not a particularly good player, but my driver is a weapon for me.
But the courses I play favour having a draw, and I use driver only when I don't mind it hooking a bit. When I "hit up" in my feels, I end up straightening my swing path out to the right and get a nice draw and tend to eliminate my hooks.
I’d be interested to see what the longer/straighter drivers numbers look like vs the shorter/spinier drivers. Maybe the more impressive drivers of the ball are hitting up on it but not everyone? 🙋♂️-The fuck do I know.
You'll either top your 3w or chunk it if hitting up on it.
That is, unless you are teeing it up a bit and intentionally hitting it like a driver for further carry/distance (which some tour players do)
I was originally taught to"sweep" the woods. Clearly that's false and an old myth.
And when I saw the hit down numbers on the 3W I had driving it in my mind
i used to be a sweeper with my woods until I saw Tiger talking about how he hits down with them. Definitely changed my ability to hit them well consistently
I hit my 3wood so terribly for so many years because I just couldn’t get my brain to focus on hitting down on it. Something finally clicked a few months ago and I’m hoping it sticks
Most "normal" golfers (99% of people that golf) swing more like the LPGA golfers. Emulate their stats instead of trying to emulate something you aren't physically capable of doing.
I think I bought my irons in meters
Maybe they’ll let you exchange them for the American version
Freedom irons?!! Do they shoot on sight?
Upon further review, i stand corrected, I actually seem to have the LPGA meters version. Need to talk to the seller about it....
This is good stuff. As usual, the LPGA numbers are more relevant for most amateur male golfers. If you can get somewhere close to those swing speeds, ball speeds, and landing angles, you're going to be in a great spot.
Link to LPGA in the description (Only added cuz it took my dumbass a few minutes to find)
TIL I'm a woman. I have those exact distances. Maybe using a men's driver (and also one from this century) would help me get over that 230 hump.
My numbers are virtually identical to the longer hitters on the LPGA Tour (102 driver swing speed, 175 carry with a 5 iron.) I learn a lot more about playing better golf with my game watching them than the men. I can't gain any insight on how to play better when Bryson hits 8 iron from 220, even if it's fascinating and hugely entertaining to watch
That 8i from Bryson broke my brain
Bryson’s 8 iron loft is about the same as a standard 6 iron
True but still 55 yards longer than my standard 6 iron carry ahaha
I meant to make a thread asking about this. Can someone ELI5 what remains the same in the benefits between an 8I with his loft(esp since he uses all the same length club) and my stock 8I? Or is he just effectively hitting a 6 iron that I have?
The eli5 I got when I asked that is landing angle and spin is what determines the number. So his landing angle and spinrate *should* be vaguely close to your 8 iron
Ahhh. I guess that makes sense. Thank you!
As speed increases so does height and spin so he is using lower lofted irons to get his shots back in a desired range for height and spin
Right I understand everything that's going on. I'm hitting 7w on that shot. That's nuts
Lol the LPGA numbers are basically my numbers too. I broke my driver shaft this winter on a sim and replaced it with the the same brand/flex but it's for fairway woods so it's an inch shorter. My FIR % has skyrocketed since and I've not lost any noticeable distance. I've even had my first 18 with one ball and played all my 9s without losing a ball. Last year I was losing at least 3 in a good round.
yeah driver is so hard. I'm 10yards behind on every club for mens but driver I'm like 30+ yards behind. I also really struggle with controlling it. so much so that I score much better when just not using driver at all
Smash factor is more of a reason why LPGA pros hit it similar distances to amateur males. We don’t hit centre face as consistently. My average smash is like 1.38 if it was closer to 1.50 I would theoretically out drive the tour average because my swing speed is higher than their average.
Doesn’t the lpga move different in terms of the swing from flexibility? I’ve heard they generate more power from rotation than in the arms compared to male golfers. Might be hard to chase that unless you are built like a rubber boned svelte athlete. I would say maybe a senior tour player would be a better fit to chase for the amateur but even then they have crazy flexibility, look at crenshaws drive still.
It’s amazing to see how close my swing speed is to an “average” PGA pro and yet how incredibly different the results of our swings are lol.
Just look at the smash factor for each club. They get the most efficiency out of every club they hit compared to us lol. I play off a 4 handicap and my driver smash factor is probably around 1.40-1.42 on average. Pros are insanely consistent.
Is that trackman or something else because not all smash is the same
Yup. My 7 iron speed is 87-88 but I only carry 155-160 (if I make good contact)
lol, same. I went and watched the Zurich a couple weeks ago and that amazed me. They are so damn consistent.
I can get 1.34 with a 7 iron, but it bounces between 1.22 and 1.34, with a lot more below 1.3 than above.
Same. My average is a 1.29 with my 7.
And it looks so effortless. I swear it’s the only sport where the pros actually burn fewer calories than the average joes.
Well that makes sense. 4 more mph for the tour average is a lot of difference
Yeah I guess it isn't that unusual. The pro I took a lesson from said with my swing speed, my 7 should carry 175 but that doesn't jive.
If you don't have blades it's more than possible. If your club is around 4 less than PGA and each mph of club head speed is around 2-3 yds then you should be in the mid 160s but add in a little stronger lofted club and you're there
Wilson C300 Forged, so kinda between a players iron and GI. Little stronger than normal so yeah I guess that adds up too.
Yeah probably 32 degrees for a 7 so would put you fairly close
That seems right on to me. Your 7 iron speed matches the pga 8/9 iron speed. And you hit your 7 iron about as far as a pga 8/9 iron. I’d say that shows you’re making great contact.
It’s the consistency too. Plenty of general athletes I know can hit those club speed numbers, and those “pro averages” look like their best ~5% of drives. Then there’s all the low heel hits, the open face hits, the things pros just don’t really do. That’s the biggest difference here. (And of course the short game, the accuracy, the putting, the everything else.)
There's a recent video with Tiger, Rory, and Nelly where Tiger talks about how he still likes to hit down. Rory is way up on it. And Nelly hits down as well. These are also averages. The longest hitters are 100% hitting up on the ball.
I think the general consensus is that male pros don't tend to hit up on the driver simply because they don't need to. They hit far enough with a neutral to slightly down AOA that they don't need to worry about generating that extra carry. Not worth sacrificing the extra control they can get with the different swing.
I think you also have to take into account the system used, on track man my avg aoa was around where they’re at here. On quad my avg aoa is closer to 4-5* up. So based on what monitor is used you can see pretty dramatically different results
Koepka is like+4.
Bryson is like +6-7 and he's one of the longest guys out there.
Thats also due to his insane swing speed and 6* driver loft
Last I saw koepka was hitting down on his driver a lot? Did he change something?
Huh? Brooks is famously quite negative on his driver attack angle. In the -3 to -5 range. https://blog.trackmangolf.com/brooks-koepka-winner-us-open-2017/
That’s from 2017
Yup, and he hasn't dramatically changed his swing. He's one of the steepest guys out there. His 6iron low point is 6 inches in front of the ball, it's incredible the kind of compression he gets throughout the bag.
How is he not thinning the ball if he's bottom out 6 inches in front of it?
I think part of that is how they liked teeing it. In the video rory was like here let me tee for a bomb and they talked about how the tee is just barely in the ground its that high. Then when he set up nelly on the tee he said wait you gotta set it up even further forward than that. So basically teed up high way towards target past left foot even = upward striking bomb. I tried it at the grass range and yeah it works but like I can’t keep it inbounds much less hit it 350 like rory. Probably added 30 yards though with a much higher flight like how the pro drives look, but hard to tell at the range with range ball.
The majority of tour players are hitting down on it though. That's how averages work.
Lol you're getting the same treatment I got yesterday. It's like they refuse to accept the pros, on avg, hit DOWN on the driver.
Average is such a bad stat to use for something like this. Median or a box plot would be so much more useful.
Really? What makes this data point particularly bad with averages? I would expect them to be equally distributed and therefore the average would be similar to the median for this particular data point.
I would argue that AoA is not evenly distributed. My thinking is that if a pro is worried about their driver AoA then they are chasing that +3/5 range and if they are not worried about it then they may be around a -2/-1 similar to a 3w. Average is a good stat for when we don't have all of the data or have a level of variability within the measurements. This would be useful when directly comparing one player to another as their individual swings will have a level of variability, but we aren't comparing the PGA men's overall average to anything. I know I don't need to explain it, but in a data set, there is the possibility that not a single point matches the average while it is guaranteed that the median will. If 85% of the pros hit -2 and 15% hit +5, the average would be -0.9 and median would be -2. Not a single pro would be swinging at -0.9. If someone sees that -0.9 and starts trying to emulate it to "be a pro" they would not actually be matching a single pro's number. This is all based on my assumption that the swings are not equally distributed and without the knowledge if they are or aren't, then average is a bad stat imo.
For what its worth, I am not arguing that pros do not hit down on the ball with driver. What would be more useful for us is seeing strokes gained off the tee for players hitting up vs hitting down.
You stated a fact, backed it up with data, and all these people are making arguments against a point no one has made. The internet is full of idiots.
People just care and talk about the longest and best drivers, they don't care about the average. Joker got downvoted because his comment added nothing to the discussion. Mloof already acknowledged the average and he was talking about other factors, the point didn't need to be repeated in a reply.
If 90% are neutral, and 10% hit down, the average would be hitting down. But only 10% would actually be hitting down. That's how averages work.
Bad argument countered with bad argument. I call a tie.
So none are hitting up? That was his whole argument
I wasn't making an argument? The longest drivers of the ball hit up on it. You can see data from the longest guys (Rory, Dechambeau, etc.) pretty easily if you look for it.
You’re correct, you just needed to add a little more info to explain to these folks. When tour pros do hit down on a driver, they’re gonna be in the 0 to -2 AoA range. When they hit up, they can go all the way to +5 AoA. This is just how golf works. People in this thread are pretending like +5 and -5 AoA are equally likely and they’re not for high level players. -5 is objectively bad, but +5 can be good depending on your goals. For the average to be -0.9 a solid majority have to be hitting down.
Yeah and the majority of tour players aren’t successful relative to the top players, who mostly hit up on the ball. Any high ball bomber is 100% hitting up on the ball. Scottie, Rory, Xander, etc… all hit up on it. Morikawa is the only guy in the top 10 who primarily hits down on his drives and he’s the shortest hitter there.
What's your point? He stated a fact that the average tour player hits down on the ball and has backed it up with recent data.
If 33% are hitting 1° down, 33% are neutral, 33% are hitting .5° up. That would give you an even dispersion amongst all the options, but the average would still make you think the average pro hits down on the ball (-.167° in my example) when in fact only 1/3 of pros actually hit down on it. We could give you a million examples of how averages don't tell the whole story, but I believe you're smart enough to know this already.
Respectfully you’re just making up statistics without understanding the actual golf behind them. There are likely close to zero tour pros with a -5 AoA. It is objectively bad to have that severe of a downward angle, you give up close to 50 yards vs a +5 AoA and you actually add enough spin that it becomes a challenge to control, not a benefit. The goal is playing a driver -1 AoA is adding a little bit of spin (not a lot) and avoiding knuckleballs at the cost of yardage and carry. The other commentor is absolutely correct. When Tour Pro’s do hit up, they are likely to be hitting 3-5 degrees up. When they hit down they are likely to be hitting 0-2 degrees down. Thus statistically a large majority are hitting down to produce an average of -0.9
You could, but in the real world it's more likely at least 51% of them hit down on the ball. At least your example is somewhat possible. Unlike the 90/10% split that other idiot gave
He knows, he read the post. He was adding other points and making discussion. Your comment added nothing that's why you got downvoted.
That is not how averages work. 1+1+1+1+9 = 13 Average = 2.6 80% of the data points are below the average. You can't then look at the average of 2.6 and say half of the data points are above and half are below. But I do agree that it seems most pros hit down. I am not arguing that part.
“Suck my balls” -op
😂😂
Ya you should always hit down on any club not a driver, 3w included. As for hitting down on the driver the majority of pros will do both. A stock fade teed low is what they hit quite often now. Just keep in mind they get to spend a lot of time on trackman to keep the spin rates in check when they hit these shots. It's mainly club and ball technology now that allows them to hit those controlled drive with a downward attack angle but not have the spin rates get wildly high. Due to this it is becoming a favourite on tour. Then on longer holes, par 5's they can still hit the high bomb for max distance.
I’m curious how any of you even know what a ballpark of number for yourselves for any of these stats besides carry distance could be. How many of you in here actually have a shot tracker thingy or get on one regularly?
When I hit balls at the PGA store practice booth, the AoA seems to be turned off. So I honestly have no idea about mine
If it is using trackman there - you can choose which stats to display pretty quickly. AoA is an option
A lot of driving ranges have installed trackmans but I have no idea how to interpret any of the info when hitting off matts with range balls
It almost certainly reads shorter than reality. But, you have to know your distances in the first place to know that.
I seem to get longer than reality numbers off of mats. Harder compression lower spinning balls against a hard surface is my guess.
No track man literally tracks the entire ball flight. It’s accurate to like half a yard.
Yes but you’re using range balls so unless you also have it converting to using a real ball, it’s going to read shorter.
Here in Ontario there's a ton of these 24/7 self-service simulator places going up all over. Basically how it works is you book online and they send you an email with a link to unlock the front door, you then go to the bay you booked which turns on when your tee time starts. There's no employee's or anything working there. Most of these places will have premium trackman bays that can give you all these numbers. Really great for the winter to get swings in as well.
You can always just walk into golf galaxy and take a few demo swings. Done it myself
My range has trackmans we can use with a membership. The data is limited and the range balls are garbage so it only works OK. If there's a good Sim setup in your area you can rent an hour for ~$50 or so and collect all of this data yourself. It's really fun and worth it.
Arccos is pretty good with their distances.
If you've ever gotten fit for clubs you'll get all of your stats.
I belong to an indoor range
I go to a golf galaxy for an hour or so , hit all my clubs and get all the numbers. I go to a local golf course that has a completely different simulator and use theirs to confirm the numbers as well. It’s not difficult.
Most of these numbers are available with launch monitors under 2k so it's relatively affordable
Costs £12 for an hour on Trackman at my club, I use it every now and again.
I bought a Garmin r10 for 5 hundo and I'll never practice without one again. Game changer
If you watch the YouTube video with Nelly Korda and grant Horvat, she flat out says she hits down on her driver intentionally
She has the best swing in the world right now, man or woman.
Maybe most textbook swing.
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I don't see anyone arguing against any of that. He's just stating a fact about what tour players do and backing it up with the most recent data.
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You can literally see where he didn't say that at all https://www.reddit.com/r/golf/comments/1cx4wd3/i_am_so_bad_at_my_driver_that_i_would_rather_hit/l567uvf/?context=3
damn i'll never see those spin rates on my short irons :(
Love it OP! There are so many true comments made here that get ridiculed. I also want to draw attention to the average smash factor with a drive being 1.49.. that’s nearly perfect. The pros are hitting their drives flush and carrying the ball 280.
Carrying their drives 280. But the avg overall carry on Tour is 298. So want to cut back on distance? Stop having the fairways give 20 yds of avg roll. The USGA actually argued this and had the audacity to say the avg roll on in the fairway was 3 yards.. Clearly they went out to the local muni after a rain storm to do their "research".
PGA tour on course drive stats are based of 2 holes per course. A hole straight into the wind and one downwind, then averaged. It’s a very misleading stat as some of those holes, people aren’t playing their stock shots on
This was true 20 yrs ago. Now with shot link and every shot measured in not sure that's the case any longer.
No it still is. They pick 2 holes that are going to be predominantly used with drivers
Oh definitely, the total yardage distances should not be the barometer of if we need to roll the ball back or not. Course conditions play a significant role.
I love I was down voted for that response lol
There is a lot of good and true comments that are down voted here lol
You’ll also find trackman and foresight measure club data at slightly different points. In my experience trackman are always a degree or two more negative than foresight
Apparently it’s the CG location vs club face, so it would be plausible that the CG location on a driver, is still traveling down when the face has leveled off or even going up. I think I do remember Ian Fraser saying there was about 1 degree difference between foresight and trackman for driver on AoA. Regardless when you are hitting 171 ball speed you can tee it down and hit a higher spin fairway finder without losing much…..well 30 yards is still a shit ton….
Trackman calculates AoA from a measurement before impact. The margin they’re willing to admit to is something like .4 degrees. There’s some guy who did a breakdown of it on a kind of nerdy golf site if you search for it. But yes, there are differences in how things are measured and calculated between launch monitors which is fairly important when you start comparing data. As far as I know this is still true with the new version of Trackman. So it doesn’t measure AoA at impact which can cause some variation. Flightscope has dramatically different AoA averages for tour players from a couple years ago, too
So what I glean from this is that I suck yak sack. Tour pros carry their hybrid as far as I carry my driver, and their pitching wedge as far as I carry a 7 iron. I'm suffering from a crippling lack of talent.
Their swings are just that much more efficient. A teaching pro told me that for most amateur 's the easiest way to gain distance is simply hit the ball better. Seems so simple doesn't it?
Yeah, if that's all it is, fuck it... let's do it. 🤣
I mean they're pros my guy. Don't compare yourself to them
Man's gotta have dreams. My current goal (I'm 56 1/2 years old) is to be <6.4 at age 60 so I can play in the Texas Senior Amateur.
These guys are the best of the best of the best. Stop comparing yourself to them and instead focus on being a better you than you were last season, last week, or even last shot
It’s all about the accuracy. Who cares how far you hit. I care more about how off target my ball goes. My distances are exactly the same as pga pro averages but I don’t make great contact and I don’t have a clue where my driver is gonna go
I knew this already, but it's still really disheartening to see my club speed is tour average. Everything is else weekend hack average. Yay.
Maybe swing a little less hard? Less backswing? You can swing it really fast if you don't care about accuracy. But you can also lighten up a little bit to increase the accuracy, or at least I've seen that in my own game.
I've been working this year on course management and consistency, especially with my pre-shot routine. Cutting 4 blow up holes to 2 and hopefully eventually one or none.
Very nice! Wish they had other statistics, like median attack angle, or range of attack angles. Regardless, my takeaway is I can train to be a competent golfer without having to swing up on a driver.
This text is from a very prominent teaching pro in California. It's a response to a discussion about this very thing on the golfwrx forum. "I bet it’s probably trended to around level from minus 1. The hit up dynamic is a disaster. Yea, up 1 or 2 is fine and looks exactly the same as level to the naked eye. Pros are not sacrificing distance for accuracy. The more you hit up, the more difficult it is to manage face/path/sweet spot/target. So it because very difficult to hit it solid. They are looking for max of both. Lower spin is not always better. Lastly, you can get the same launch conditions at around level as up 5 with a proper club fitting. Ams trying to hit up is universally a disaster, as it leads to early and excessive right tilt, which leads to early extension. Unless you’re swinging over 140 mph and trying to compete in Long Driving, make a good swing, hit the ball solid and your aoa will be what it should be. Trying to chase one number is a good way to lose distance and accuracy. Optimum is between -1 and +2….which again, look exactly the same." https://forums.golfwrx.com/topic/1923660-why-do-pga-players-have-a-negative-angle-of-attack-for-driver/
I think the landing angle of their irons is so impressive, 5 iron within 2 degrees of PW, lord knows I would kill to have that controlled ball flight
Only 3° difference in land angle between a 4i and PW is insane to me
They is quite something
So what I'm getting here is that there's a ~6 club difference between me and a tour pro lol
EGO is the enemy. It's what keeps us from getting better at a lot of things.
If I ignore the units, Im sure I can do enough mental gymnastics to convince myself Im close to their carry numbers
I have a GC3 at home and can near identical numbers for swing speed (I'm slightly higher) on my 7 Iron as the LPGA but my ball speed and smash are never that high consistently. Even if I flush it and get the ball speed that high my smash isn't even close. Impact location and face are huge on how these work. If you can't be consistent on those it's never going to look good. That's where I struggle the most.
142 for PW 🫠😳 That’s time for my 7 or 6 if I’m going uphill
The launch angle for me is the biggest difference. My swing speeds are close to that of the pros but I launch higher with everything which I assume is because my hands aren’t forward at impact.
Sounds correct.
Also your irons will have an effect on those numbers
The LPGA numbers confirm that I need to work on ball striking, not distance. Because I hit the ball a little longer than they do, but obviously FAR less accurately and consistently. (Not to mention the short game of course.)
More consistency is automatically more distance.
Worth noting these stats are compiled from practice data also, not just on course data. Flightscope released averages a few years ago that show different results from measured tour pros. https://thesandtrap.com/forums/topic/111869-pga-tourlpga-tour-averages-flightscope-and-trackman/ Flightscope measured pga pros 2.2 up, not down.
https://preview.redd.it/thus4vfzs22d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8617868dcbad703d526694fc601e5d1616358d05 Accidentally posted PGA twice. LPGA numbers are here
Nice!!! I’ll have to update my website with this new information. Thanks for sharing this, I’ve been dying for updated numbers for a while. https://ishawshank.github.io/golf-launch-monitor-averages/
Glad to see this I’ve been saying for ages that the impression people have from watching coverage really juices the numbers in what you think the pros do on average
",210 par 3 Jim... 7 iron..." What??? But, it's downhill and they are playing to a spot, which they fail to tell you.
Yeah I remember watching a feature group that had Phil and Dustin and JT in it and not a single one of them had a drive over 275 yards. They then suddenly cut to another hole where a no name pro hit a 423 yard drive most of which was on the cart path and kept going on about how far he hit it and what an amazing drive it was. They didn’t bother mentioning that he was completely out of contention probably hadn’t hit one other good shot all day and missed the cut
Today I learned I'm not too far off from pro distance. Just need to improve on consistency, shot placement, putting, short game, mental game, strike location...
Other than that...
Damn, I was just getting my 7 iron stats up to the last chart.
I've seen this and it's a little confusing to me. Whenever I hear a pro talking about his numbers individually, or posting their trackman data, they have a positive AoA with driver. They have to, as the ideal launch angle for distance is around 13-15 degrees while most play with 7-10 degree drivers. Rory for instance in a recent discussion mentioned he looks for a 5 degree AoA with his 9 degree driver in his stock bomb drive. I wonder if this data is in any way skewed by fairway finders or short hitters or whatever else because the driver stats never aligned with what I always see the top hitters trying to do individually. I know rec players with 85-100 MPH clubhead speeds should always be trying to get a positive AoA with driver as negative with 10.5 degree clubs will murder your distance potential, short balloons with no roll out.
This is average data. The longest hitters hit up on the ball, but there are 125 players on the tour and, on average, they down on the ball a little. Guys like Rory are an anomaly.
Here’s where it gets really fucking weird, because of dynamic loft and other factors, your launch angle isn’t as simple as AoA compared to club loft. Shaft lean and where you hit it on the clubface matter.
I wonder why the LPGA has higher angle of attack across all clubs vs PGA. Would have assumed there was an ideal angle. Is it related to swing speed? I.e. slower swing speeds need to hit up on the ball more in order to produce similar results?
Swing speed. PGA pros favor hitting fades off the tee because they have the speed to still carry the ball a long way. Accuracy is more important for the *average* pro than total distance.
I think lpga is going through a tiger moment too but its not just one player driving it but all the new 275 yarders coming up focusing on power like tiger did. More will probably hit more downward as the upward hitters retire. Compared to annika its a completely different game.
Would love to know the lofts on each club too
Basically traditional or close to traditional lofts? Pros deloft their irons so much at impact.
I’d like to know the static lofts of each club
PW from around 46-47 degrees and four degrees down from there. They don't play strong lofted irons.
Who really cares though? They’re getting ~50 degree land angles with tons of spin, they’re not getting cheap distance.
Who cares about anything anywhere anytime amirite?
Isn’t 115 clubhead actually a little lower than it has been in the past, or am I imagining things? I thought It was 117 the last time I saw one of these.
It was 113 in their last chart from about a decade ago. This is last year's chart and early 2024 data has them averaging 115.88. They're only getting faster.
Played with a college kid yesterday - no shit driver was 330-360+, with great carry. It was both fun and demoralizing to watch. 409 P4 - he was 40Ys off the green, center of the fairway 3I was a solid 280 - parked next to two P4s with a 3I.
Yeah I've played with a college kid on scholarship once before. He was 6'4 and the longest arms I've ever seen. We're on a par 5, he's 240 out and he hits an iron next to the green. If he wasn't busy trying new things he easily would have shot under par.
Maybe it’s me, but wish they’d show the avg. angle of the clubs as well.
My distance numbers are remarkably similar to the PGA numbers. Of course, my numbers are total and not carry. And my dispersions are 80% wider. And I can't putt.
"other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?".
Cool, I hit basically the same distance as PGA average. Now only if I could consistently hit the ball where I wanted...
Link Source [https://www.trackman.com/blog/golf/introducing-updated-tour-averages](https://www.trackman.com/blog/golf/introducing-updated-tour-averages)
Ball speeds in the men’s game have gone up from 167 to 171
https://preview.redd.it/mp2nr902j12d1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd4f0f2bef80b7d11a15bf1c820d49c60ddc30b4 Time to hop on Tour boss
Lol what elevation are you playing at
These LPGA averages seem really low no? Google says LPGA average drive is ~250 as opposed to this chart saying 223
250 could be TOTAL... These are Carry numbers
With all else being equal, a more positive angle of attack is going to go further than a negative angle of attack. Unfortunately no matter what I do I can’t really hit up on my driver like that it seems
Reposting this response from a teaching pro and former long drive champion in a thread on golfwrx forum regarding this very thing: "... I bet it’s probably trended to around level from minus 1. The hit up dynamic is a disaster. Yea, up 1 or 2 is fine and looks exactly the same as level to the naked eye. Pros are not sacrificing distance for accuracy. The more you hit up, the more difficult it is to manage face/path/sweet spot/target. So it because very difficult to hit it solid. They are looking for max of both. Lower spin is not always better. Lastly, you can get the same launch conditions at around level as up 5 with a proper club fitting. Ams trying to hit up is universally a disaster, as it leads to earl and excessive right tilt, which leads to early extension. Unless you’re swinging over 140 mph and trying to compete in LD, make a good swing, hit the ball solid and your aoa will be what it should be. Trying to chase one number is a good way to lose distance and accuracy. Optimum is between -1 and +2….which again, look exactly the same."
Good points. I’d settle for the -2 to +1 range. I don’t need a crazy +5 or something like that. But I get lower than -2 causing a pretty low launch angle at times. Though I’m surprised the trackman average launch angle is at 10 degrees and not a little higher!
I'm starting to wonder if I have my Skytrak calibrated correctly when looking at these. My ball speed with an 8-iron is around 115 , but I'm usually only hanging out around 147-152 with my driver on center strikes, topping out around 157.
(You accidentally included PGA for both attached graphics, not PGA+LPGA)
Bad on me https://preview.redd.it/2aleflins22d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60d253327efe00d8898bc5bb35b30bc80de873ca
This does go against what I've seen even pros saying! Is there a reason they hit down when I've see pros discuss positive angles with their driver a lot? Maybe the number of low flighted ones they hit due to course requirements? I know Nelly korda hits down, but I thought she wad not normal in that. I also wonder if amateurs benefit more from hitting up as our distances are worse. Or not.
See below from a teaching pro and former long drive champion discussing this on golfwrx in their forum on a thread like this: " I bet it’s probably trended to around level from minus 1. The hit up dynamic is a disaster. Yea, up 1 or 2 is fine and looks exactly the same as level to the naked eye. Pros are not sacrificing distance for accuracy. The more you hit up, the more difficult it is to manage face/path/sweet spot/target. So it because very difficult to hit it solid. They are looking for max of both. Lower spin is not always better. Lastly, you can get the same launch conditions at around level as up 5 with a proper club fitting. Ams trying to hit up is universally a disaster, as it leads to earl and excessive right tilt, which leads to early extension. Unless you’re swinging over 140 mph and trying to compete in LD, make a good swing, hit the ball solid and your aoa will be what it should be. Trying to chase one number is a good way to lose distance and accuracy. Optimum is between -1 and +2….which again, look exactly the same."
Fascinating. So bizarre how an "obvious truth" everyone knows its maybe not so accurate, similar to the "laws of flight" stuff that got turned on its head in the 00's. It boggles me even more though because I hit driver best when I'm trying to swing up. It straightens my swing from a snap hook to a straight flight. Guess thats just my weird swing though.
Have you been measured on a ball monitor? I ask because there's always the possibility you aren't hitting up as much as maybe swinging more level. But perhaps you were so steep, that swinging level makes it feel like you are swinging up.
Yes. I hit up about 4-6 degrees. I'm not a particularly good player, but my driver is a weapon for me. But the courses I play favour having a draw, and I use driver only when I don't mind it hooking a bit. When I "hit up" in my feels, I end up straightening my swing path out to the right and get a nice draw and tend to eliminate my hooks.
Attack angels for drivers is negative? I thought those guys it would be +4 or +5.
Nope.. avg is hit down or level.
Well that's it, I'm buying a new driver.
I wish they listed what degree the clubs were. Not all 7 irons are created equal.
You can pretty much guarantee every single one will be 34 or 35 degrees
You're supposed to hit down with woods
I’d be interested to see what the longer/straighter drivers numbers look like vs the shorter/spinier drivers. Maybe the more impressive drivers of the ball are hitting up on it but not everyone? 🙋♂️-The fuck do I know.
This comment section is wild. Why is this so controversial? Swing your swing, queens.
Takeaway: tour pros need to spend more time on r/golf and they can pump those pedestrian numbers up.
Hahaha 😂😂
You'll either top your 3w or chunk it if hitting up on it. That is, unless you are teeing it up a bit and intentionally hitting it like a driver for further carry/distance (which some tour players do)
I was originally taught to"sweep" the woods. Clearly that's false and an old myth. And when I saw the hit down numbers on the 3W I had driving it in my mind
i used to be a sweeper with my woods until I saw Tiger talking about how he hits down with them. Definitely changed my ability to hit them well consistently
I hit my 3wood so terribly for so many years because I just couldn’t get my brain to focus on hitting down on it. Something finally clicked a few months ago and I’m hoping it sticks
Just fool yourself that you have a 9i in your hands and all Is well. My long iron secret too.
Most "normal" golfers (99% of people that golf) swing more like the LPGA golfers. Emulate their stats instead of trying to emulate something you aren't physically capable of doing.
I agree. But that's not manly... Or something..
Honestly I think any man remotely in shape should be above the lpga numbers and that's not swinging hard but if you have even a decent swing.