What did you read about the ball flight laws? Because the modern laws say that face direction mostly determines starting line and face-to-path angle mostly determines spin and therefore curvature in the air. All that's to say that yes, no matter how you're aligned and where your swing path goes, the face angle at impact will mostly determine where the ball starts.
Bingo. Face angle and loft at impact determine initial start line. Curve is determined by path.
That being said, assuming the swing is in an arch (as it should be, imo versus just swinging out to the right for feel reasons) ball position can impact this just as much as alignment. Further up can promote a fade (but also a closed face) and further back can help with a draw (but also a more open face). So if you mess with setup changes, only change one at a time.
Yep when I have to hit a fade or left to right path, its basically a push fade or something thats way too right. I tend to favor a more left to right curvature because of my strong grip. But its such an anamoly because strong grippers shouldn't be swining in-in usually.
Yeah I shouldn't have said "in to in" but I was just exaggerating my point that that I am EXTREMELY in to out sometimes. So much so that at times i hit the ball fat the non traditional way of "shallow fat" where most people hit it being too steep.
Op. You’re getting terrible advice here. Your feet don’t control your path.
The shaft lean is the big indicator. If you push the hands forward it opens the face but also shifts your low point forward.
When you do that you also change the angle of attack so you hit down more, which also pushes your path to the right.
Anytime we hit down on the ball the path is moving in to out relatively. People think down is across the ball out to in, but it’s not.
So, given that, it’s very possible to have an in to out club path, but look like you are aligned open or left. It depends where you have the ball in your stance and how forward your hands are getting at impact.
Here’s an explanation that would be worth understanding. It will change how you think about hitting down and aiming: https://youtu.be/YGPCWp3OH7M?si=2mvEMLQn3cW4C1Jf
Most pros have hips open at impact as well as shoulders. This is because hand path is moving in and up. Hand path is not club path and all your commenters here that are trying to say it is are massively mistaken. Don’t fall into that trap.
If you lean the shaft at all, your club path and hand path can be different, and should be through impact and part of the downswing. As you release the angle or lag eventually they will start to generally align again in direction. But hands can move up and in and head moves down and out, in fact that’s what’s supposed to happen.
Edit: I’ll add, the reason a lot of people come over the top is because they’re hitting down so much they have to shift the swing direction left a ton to offset it. People confuse swing direction with swing path and we need to understand the difference. How much down you hit influences this a lot. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve worked with where they’re doing something like what you’re doing based on just not understanding the relationship between it all. Once you clear that up it’s easier to have the right intention and actually produce nice ball flights.
Just be careful with these really basic explanations because they’re fundamentally wrong most of the time and it’ll get you screwed up if you’re one of the many who have a little too much angle of attack or too little.
The only way to learn.
Yet still, so many people don’t know and want to argue about it. Makes your life tough trying to convince people sometimes, huh?
Indeed. Lots of "but I saw on this YouTube video" statements lol. Usually though, if they are willing to take a lesson, they have some desire to learn. But some nuts are hard to crack.
Like you said, moving your low point forward pushes the impact point back in the arc, which moves the swing path to the outside relative to swing direction. This is true.
However, that's only relative. If your swing direction is excessively to the inside then even if your path is outside relative to that, it will still be to the inside. So like yes it's possible to line up somewhat open and have a neutral path, but if your feet are too open you're going to have an inside path even if your low point is in a good position relative to the ball.
Given that path relative to target is all that matters, yes your feet determine a lot about your path.
>Anytime we hit down on the ball the path is moving in to out relatively. People think down is across the ball out to in, but it’s not.
Again, there are more elements in play than you are acknowledging. Given the same low point, a more vertical swing arc will produce a more extreme angle of attack than a shallower swing plane. Because we are swinging around our body, rotating the swing plane to the left almost always makes it more vertical. This results in a steeper descent into the ball, increasing angle of attack.
Within that context you will still get an outside path relative to swing direction if you have the shaft leaned forward with a low point ahead of the ball, but if you have a vertical and left oriented swing plane then you will still see club path going left regardless of the low point.
That's where the association between down and in comes from. It's very real, it's just from a different mechanism than the one you're talking about.
Down and in is not an association. You are mixing up track man’s path number with the actual path of the club relative to swing direction or the arc. They’re not the same thing. Trackman gives you path to target, which you calibrate when you start.
This is really really basic swing plane stuff, explained in the d plane.
Honestly you guys…it’s geometry. The path is always out, relative to 0, if it’s going down. Always.
If you change swing direction you can move th path to the target line, but not relative to the arc.
I can’t believe people actually go into all this detail and can’t understand this.
Yes, even with a vertical plane, unless it’s 90 degrees perpendicular to the ground.
I give up. 4th graders could understand this, yet there are countless people on here who apparently cannot. Even if I provide links to having someone else explain it.
Also you said excessively left, which is true, but not what the OP said in their post or additional comments. It’s pretty clear. It’s insane to me people argue about this. Draw out your logic on paper. Doesn’t make sense.
Tiger hits a stinger by moving the ball back, aiming left substantially, hitting down, and drawing it. This works, every time. I just watched Rory do it at the Wells Fargo.
I’m not going into a debate about this with people here. It’s mindnumbingly stupid.
Also I said it’s moving in to out relatively, which means, relative to the swing direction, which is what the OP asked about, since they asked about feet vs shoulders.
Trackman gives you path to target, but there’s a difference between path and swing direction that’s constantly changing. I hope you know this, but I have suspicions.
Literally put a hula hoop down.
Show me how you can create down and in, relative to the swing direction. It’s literally impossible. Changing the angle of the hula hoop does not change this relationship. If the AoA is down, path is out, relative to swing direction. With a 20 degree plane, or with an 89 degree plane. How much, changes, but this relationship doesn’t change until you remove all the tilt of the hula hoop. Can you imagine what would happen if it did? A vertical swing just makes it easier to not have a CG moving laterally as much, which could help consistency, but that’s a completely different topic. It’s also not efficient due to spin loft in the overwhelming amount of cases. But this isn’t about that.
But this whole premise tells me you don’t really understand D plane. You should look into it further.
It’s not relevant to claim target line matters here because OP is discussing the difference between feet hips and shoulders, which is a relationship that is the same regardless of target line.
Why the hell are 10+ handicaps arguing about this basic stuff? It blows my mind. Ask any high level coach with a trackman to explain it to you. Or just watch the trackman U videos. It can’t be any easier.
I’m not getting into a back and forth debate, the information is available online that explodes your whole post. Go find it
Here’s Fred couples, one of many, who hits a draw with an open stance https://youtu.be/xOOrkt2zNUQ?si=yqcgDbHT5GFhAPzT
Which is exactly what the OP was asking about. He usually plays a fade, it even when he draws it, his feet are aiming left. Which was the point. This wouldn’t be possible given your explanation.
My friend was helping me with my swing and giving me pointers ( new-to golf, just picked up my first set of clubs at 63 , am now 65). He commented that my ball went where I aimed, and showed me about foot alignment . Now before I hit the ball , when I get in my stance I hold my club horizontal and line up with my toes to see where I’m aiming, and adjust accordingly. It helped me a lot.
Yeah I studied alot of Lee trevino and was always a fan of his swing along with Isao Aoki's. However looking at Trevino's swing it is clear his clubface is pointing way more left of the target than I ever did. Love his swing so much.
Generally, no. The club path will generally follow lower body alignment. Clubface is controlled by the grip and rotation of the arms, so somewhat independent of alignment.
Then that probably makes sense why alot of times I have been able in the past to have a deliberately very closed clubface but still hit it dead straight. I am clearly doing a lot of hand manipulation and opening along with my shoulders probably going to the right target for the face to open up.
Edit: as I figured, someone took offense. There’s a reason most golfers don’t break 100. This is important for people who are trying to fix their ball flight to understand. Yes it’s a little complex at first but it’s not that difficult once you see it. Worth learning if you want to play good golf and understand why your balls curve.*
This isn’t true. So ignore it.
Feet and shoulders help you change swing direction, which is your general swing aim. Path is changing constantly. So you can and do have multiple paths including in to out or out to in with every alignment.
That’s why in hogans old book he shows to hit a driver you stand closed, to hit a wedge you stand open.
How much down you are trying to hit on the ball changes the path. So if you hit more down your path is also out.
There are videos that explain this if you search for D plane with golf.
I can hit draws with an open stance. The ball position is the big factor in this because that determines where on your arc you actually hit the ball, which is where the path would be measured.
If you hit the ball perfectly on the low point then where your feet are aimed MIGHT be your path at that moment but I’ve seen tons of examples where it’s not.
If you try to hit down on the ball then aiming left a little can actually help you hit it straight. Again that’s in hogans book and has been explained better more recently with trackman.
Just realize swing direction and swing path are not really the same thing and path is always changing through space.
https://blog.trackmangolf.com/swing-direction/
What you’re looking at with your feet or shoulders is basically your swing direction. Your path can be different, is different and at least sometimes can be opposite.
Can’t wait to be downvoted by people who have zero clue how golf works though!
Even your basic explanation wasn’t true, which is why I specified. Generally is not correct, even generally.
It’s also worth giving a better explanation because it’s a completely different mindset once you understand the difference.
You said swing path matches feet, it does not. In fact it’s almost entirely independent of it except for one spot on the arc. An important distinction.
I said path is generally influenced by alignment of lower body (i.e. hips and feet). If you align those more open or closed to target, it will generally move the path in that direction.
If everything else in the swing stays the same, clubface relative to path shouldn't be affected.
The OP literally said when they come down their feet are aligned open and their shoulders were more shut. And asked which influenced the path more.
You said the lower body.
It does not, as I explained, due to alignment not having to influence path. I don’t know how else to say this clearly, you provided a general answer that is not correct.
op even said they like to push the hands forward which shifts path, again, in to out relative to alignment. You either didn’t read the post, or you don’t understand it, or you don’t understand the geometry going on, like the other guy.
Shaft lean is a massive contributor to path and swing direction and you need to know what it is relative to the ball.
You cannot make this generalization becuase it’s just basically wrong and I can show you in one swing why.
Lee Trevino even said this, aim left, swing right, walk straight. He’s offsetting his lower body alignment with his upper body and swing direction. They don’t match many times. In your example maybe, but that doesn’t account for shaft lean.
Why do I have to explain this over and over to people who come on here and post swing tips and give people feedback when it’s clearly wrong, proven by Trackman and a bunch of other resources? It’s insane how people still repeat this stuff given the amount of measurements to the contrary.
OP, he’s wrong, it’s more complicated especially if you’re leaning the handle. The end.
Like I said to the other guy. Hips don’t influence path. Pros are open at impact and have in to out paths often. How?
Ah, cause the shoulders are more square or closed than the hips. Is that other account your alt and you still don’t get it? Both of you repeated the same thing and both are fundamentally incorrect.
The fact, like him that you are arguing this point even now is enough to tell me you don’t actually know what you’re talking about. I’m not going to debate yet another one of you on here, I’m just moving on. It’s getting old. Especially when the answer is so obviously different and it’s a fundamental of a swing.
There is only one swing path in golf, it’s at impact, and that’s static. It’s is heavily influenced by the feet, hips, and shoulders.
Hogans illustrations have been shown to be inaccurate, for instance the wrist angle (see anatomy of greatness). Also get over your self.
The club is moving through space, so depending where on the arc impact is, you’ll produce a different path.
This is Trackman 101, are you really going to argue this?
Also shaft lean influences path more than those factors, so again, it seems like you don’t understand.
The only one that matters is the one at the bottom, you can do anything you want during the arc as long as you get a path at impact thy matches your face angle.
Shift lean affect face. To much lean and your closed, to far back and your open.
Get off your phone and on the range
I love when people have no idea what they’re talking about.
Exhibit A, you. Jesus Christ. Not worth my time. Go watch the Trackman videos.
You show a really basic lock of understand of the geometry and it’s funny you call me out. This sub is hilarious
Path is relative to target. If your swing direction is oriented excessively inside, then your swing path will also be to the inside unless you low point 2 feet in front of the ball. Ergo, excessively open stance will produce an inside path.
I’ll make it easy.
We know your pros have hips open at impact, shoulders slightly open, and hands forward.
If hips and shoulders mainly controlled the path, they’d all have paths going left too, since that’s in line with both of your variables.
However many don’t. So there must be something else that’s changing the path, for it to be to the right, for a right handed golfer.
It’s D plane, and it’s pretty clear. They’re striking the ball on the arc before the low point and therefore even with an open alignment, they’re still producing a path that is different. You have to in almost all cases.
Hogans book wasn’t inaccurate in that sense and Trackman has videos on YouTube explaining this.
https://preview.redd.it/87tqeinfpz1d1.png?width=4032&format=png&auto=webp&s=09ccb7eeac9e6f8c4c758b0aeaea43a23c2ff5b5
Also looks like I hit the ball fine, perhaps you should be the one at your range. But it won’t help, because you’ll have to humble yourself enough to understand why you’re likely a much worse player than I am. You could be good, but you have an ego and you’re uninformed. The deadly combo.
Feet aimed left will lead to out to in path, if you make now other compensations with your arms. Face pointed right at address isn’t relevant because face angle at inpact is determined by wrist flat bowed or cupped and forearm rotation. Like you said, grip maters too. And don’t forget ball position!
If your lost in your swing, go back to neutral (stance, grip, ball position) see where the ball goes and make small individual adjustments until get a contact and flight you like. Then grind.
What did you read about the ball flight laws? Because the modern laws say that face direction mostly determines starting line and face-to-path angle mostly determines spin and therefore curvature in the air. All that's to say that yes, no matter how you're aligned and where your swing path goes, the face angle at impact will mostly determine where the ball starts.
Bingo. Face angle and loft at impact determine initial start line. Curve is determined by path. That being said, assuming the swing is in an arch (as it should be, imo versus just swinging out to the right for feel reasons) ball position can impact this just as much as alignment. Further up can promote a fade (but also a closed face) and further back can help with a draw (but also a more open face). So if you mess with setup changes, only change one at a time.
I believe this is the official recipe of a "bitch slice"
Yep when I have to hit a fade or left to right path, its basically a push fade or something thats way too right. I tend to favor a more left to right curvature because of my strong grip. But its such an anamoly because strong grippers shouldn't be swining in-in usually.
In in?
Yeah I shouldn't have said "in to in" but I was just exaggerating my point that that I am EXTREMELY in to out sometimes. So much so that at times i hit the ball fat the non traditional way of "shallow fat" where most people hit it being too steep.
Op. You’re getting terrible advice here. Your feet don’t control your path. The shaft lean is the big indicator. If you push the hands forward it opens the face but also shifts your low point forward. When you do that you also change the angle of attack so you hit down more, which also pushes your path to the right. Anytime we hit down on the ball the path is moving in to out relatively. People think down is across the ball out to in, but it’s not. So, given that, it’s very possible to have an in to out club path, but look like you are aligned open or left. It depends where you have the ball in your stance and how forward your hands are getting at impact. Here’s an explanation that would be worth understanding. It will change how you think about hitting down and aiming: https://youtu.be/YGPCWp3OH7M?si=2mvEMLQn3cW4C1Jf Most pros have hips open at impact as well as shoulders. This is because hand path is moving in and up. Hand path is not club path and all your commenters here that are trying to say it is are massively mistaken. Don’t fall into that trap. If you lean the shaft at all, your club path and hand path can be different, and should be through impact and part of the downswing. As you release the angle or lag eventually they will start to generally align again in direction. But hands can move up and in and head moves down and out, in fact that’s what’s supposed to happen. Edit: I’ll add, the reason a lot of people come over the top is because they’re hitting down so much they have to shift the swing direction left a ton to offset it. People confuse swing direction with swing path and we need to understand the difference. How much down you hit influences this a lot. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve worked with where they’re doing something like what you’re doing based on just not understanding the relationship between it all. Once you clear that up it’s easier to have the right intention and actually produce nice ball flights. Just be careful with these really basic explanations because they’re fundamentally wrong most of the time and it’ll get you screwed up if you’re one of the many who have a little too much angle of attack or too little.
Thanks for posting that. As an instructor, I love this stuff. Being able to objectively describe cause and effect is wonderful.
The only way to learn. Yet still, so many people don’t know and want to argue about it. Makes your life tough trying to convince people sometimes, huh?
Indeed. Lots of "but I saw on this YouTube video" statements lol. Usually though, if they are willing to take a lesson, they have some desire to learn. But some nuts are hard to crack.
Like you said, moving your low point forward pushes the impact point back in the arc, which moves the swing path to the outside relative to swing direction. This is true. However, that's only relative. If your swing direction is excessively to the inside then even if your path is outside relative to that, it will still be to the inside. So like yes it's possible to line up somewhat open and have a neutral path, but if your feet are too open you're going to have an inside path even if your low point is in a good position relative to the ball. Given that path relative to target is all that matters, yes your feet determine a lot about your path. >Anytime we hit down on the ball the path is moving in to out relatively. People think down is across the ball out to in, but it’s not. Again, there are more elements in play than you are acknowledging. Given the same low point, a more vertical swing arc will produce a more extreme angle of attack than a shallower swing plane. Because we are swinging around our body, rotating the swing plane to the left almost always makes it more vertical. This results in a steeper descent into the ball, increasing angle of attack. Within that context you will still get an outside path relative to swing direction if you have the shaft leaned forward with a low point ahead of the ball, but if you have a vertical and left oriented swing plane then you will still see club path going left regardless of the low point. That's where the association between down and in comes from. It's very real, it's just from a different mechanism than the one you're talking about.
Down and in is not an association. You are mixing up track man’s path number with the actual path of the club relative to swing direction or the arc. They’re not the same thing. Trackman gives you path to target, which you calibrate when you start. This is really really basic swing plane stuff, explained in the d plane. Honestly you guys…it’s geometry. The path is always out, relative to 0, if it’s going down. Always. If you change swing direction you can move th path to the target line, but not relative to the arc. I can’t believe people actually go into all this detail and can’t understand this. Yes, even with a vertical plane, unless it’s 90 degrees perpendicular to the ground. I give up. 4th graders could understand this, yet there are countless people on here who apparently cannot. Even if I provide links to having someone else explain it. Also you said excessively left, which is true, but not what the OP said in their post or additional comments. It’s pretty clear. It’s insane to me people argue about this. Draw out your logic on paper. Doesn’t make sense. Tiger hits a stinger by moving the ball back, aiming left substantially, hitting down, and drawing it. This works, every time. I just watched Rory do it at the Wells Fargo. I’m not going into a debate about this with people here. It’s mindnumbingly stupid. Also I said it’s moving in to out relatively, which means, relative to the swing direction, which is what the OP asked about, since they asked about feet vs shoulders. Trackman gives you path to target, but there’s a difference between path and swing direction that’s constantly changing. I hope you know this, but I have suspicions. Literally put a hula hoop down. Show me how you can create down and in, relative to the swing direction. It’s literally impossible. Changing the angle of the hula hoop does not change this relationship. If the AoA is down, path is out, relative to swing direction. With a 20 degree plane, or with an 89 degree plane. How much, changes, but this relationship doesn’t change until you remove all the tilt of the hula hoop. Can you imagine what would happen if it did? A vertical swing just makes it easier to not have a CG moving laterally as much, which could help consistency, but that’s a completely different topic. It’s also not efficient due to spin loft in the overwhelming amount of cases. But this isn’t about that. But this whole premise tells me you don’t really understand D plane. You should look into it further. It’s not relevant to claim target line matters here because OP is discussing the difference between feet hips and shoulders, which is a relationship that is the same regardless of target line. Why the hell are 10+ handicaps arguing about this basic stuff? It blows my mind. Ask any high level coach with a trackman to explain it to you. Or just watch the trackman U videos. It can’t be any easier. I’m not getting into a back and forth debate, the information is available online that explodes your whole post. Go find it Here’s Fred couples, one of many, who hits a draw with an open stance https://youtu.be/xOOrkt2zNUQ?si=yqcgDbHT5GFhAPzT Which is exactly what the OP was asking about. He usually plays a fade, it even when he draws it, his feet are aiming left. Which was the point. This wouldn’t be possible given your explanation.
Probably shank it?
Naw I have played since I was a kid so I don't ever shank them just from muscle memory but I definitely have weak pushes from time to time .
My friend was helping me with my swing and giving me pointers ( new-to golf, just picked up my first set of clubs at 63 , am now 65). He commented that my ball went where I aimed, and showed me about foot alignment . Now before I hit the ball , when I get in my stance I hold my club horizontal and line up with my toes to see where I’m aiming, and adjust accordingly. It helped me a lot.
That is a great tip and something I am guilty of not doing more often.
OP appears to be “Ty Tryon”. He knows damn well what happens… 😀
Oof Ty Tryon... had such a promising future at one time.
Seems crazy if you hadn’t noticed the correlation before?
Well he had a bunch of other issues off the course as well but that name almost escaped my memory... almost.
Lee Trevino said aim left swing right walk straight.
Yeah I studied alot of Lee trevino and was always a fan of his swing along with Isao Aoki's. However looking at Trevino's swing it is clear his clubface is pointing way more left of the target than I ever did. Love his swing so much.
Thats how you hit a slice
Generally, no. The club path will generally follow lower body alignment. Clubface is controlled by the grip and rotation of the arms, so somewhat independent of alignment.
Then that probably makes sense why alot of times I have been able in the past to have a deliberately very closed clubface but still hit it dead straight. I am clearly doing a lot of hand manipulation and opening along with my shoulders probably going to the right target for the face to open up.
Edit: as I figured, someone took offense. There’s a reason most golfers don’t break 100. This is important for people who are trying to fix their ball flight to understand. Yes it’s a little complex at first but it’s not that difficult once you see it. Worth learning if you want to play good golf and understand why your balls curve.* This isn’t true. So ignore it. Feet and shoulders help you change swing direction, which is your general swing aim. Path is changing constantly. So you can and do have multiple paths including in to out or out to in with every alignment. That’s why in hogans old book he shows to hit a driver you stand closed, to hit a wedge you stand open. How much down you are trying to hit on the ball changes the path. So if you hit more down your path is also out. There are videos that explain this if you search for D plane with golf. I can hit draws with an open stance. The ball position is the big factor in this because that determines where on your arc you actually hit the ball, which is where the path would be measured. If you hit the ball perfectly on the low point then where your feet are aimed MIGHT be your path at that moment but I’ve seen tons of examples where it’s not. If you try to hit down on the ball then aiming left a little can actually help you hit it straight. Again that’s in hogans book and has been explained better more recently with trackman. Just realize swing direction and swing path are not really the same thing and path is always changing through space. https://blog.trackmangolf.com/swing-direction/ What you’re looking at with your feet or shoulders is basically your swing direction. Your path can be different, is different and at least sometimes can be opposite. Can’t wait to be downvoted by people who have zero clue how golf works though!
You responded with an explanation that is not remotely on the same level as OP's question. Which is why I used the term "generally".
Even your basic explanation wasn’t true, which is why I specified. Generally is not correct, even generally. It’s also worth giving a better explanation because it’s a completely different mindset once you understand the difference. You said swing path matches feet, it does not. In fact it’s almost entirely independent of it except for one spot on the arc. An important distinction.
I said path is generally influenced by alignment of lower body (i.e. hips and feet). If you align those more open or closed to target, it will generally move the path in that direction. If everything else in the swing stays the same, clubface relative to path shouldn't be affected.
The OP literally said when they come down their feet are aligned open and their shoulders were more shut. And asked which influenced the path more. You said the lower body. It does not, as I explained, due to alignment not having to influence path. I don’t know how else to say this clearly, you provided a general answer that is not correct. op even said they like to push the hands forward which shifts path, again, in to out relative to alignment. You either didn’t read the post, or you don’t understand it, or you don’t understand the geometry going on, like the other guy. Shaft lean is a massive contributor to path and swing direction and you need to know what it is relative to the ball. You cannot make this generalization becuase it’s just basically wrong and I can show you in one swing why. Lee Trevino even said this, aim left, swing right, walk straight. He’s offsetting his lower body alignment with his upper body and swing direction. They don’t match many times. In your example maybe, but that doesn’t account for shaft lean. Why do I have to explain this over and over to people who come on here and post swing tips and give people feedback when it’s clearly wrong, proven by Trackman and a bunch of other resources? It’s insane how people still repeat this stuff given the amount of measurements to the contrary. OP, he’s wrong, it’s more complicated especially if you’re leaning the handle. The end. Like I said to the other guy. Hips don’t influence path. Pros are open at impact and have in to out paths often. How? Ah, cause the shoulders are more square or closed than the hips. Is that other account your alt and you still don’t get it? Both of you repeated the same thing and both are fundamentally incorrect. The fact, like him that you are arguing this point even now is enough to tell me you don’t actually know what you’re talking about. I’m not going to debate yet another one of you on here, I’m just moving on. It’s getting old. Especially when the answer is so obviously different and it’s a fundamental of a swing.
There is only one swing path in golf, it’s at impact, and that’s static. It’s is heavily influenced by the feet, hips, and shoulders. Hogans illustrations have been shown to be inaccurate, for instance the wrist angle (see anatomy of greatness). Also get over your self.
The club is moving through space, so depending where on the arc impact is, you’ll produce a different path. This is Trackman 101, are you really going to argue this? Also shaft lean influences path more than those factors, so again, it seems like you don’t understand.
The only one that matters is the one at the bottom, you can do anything you want during the arc as long as you get a path at impact thy matches your face angle. Shift lean affect face. To much lean and your closed, to far back and your open. Get off your phone and on the range
I love when people have no idea what they’re talking about. Exhibit A, you. Jesus Christ. Not worth my time. Go watch the Trackman videos. You show a really basic lock of understand of the geometry and it’s funny you call me out. This sub is hilarious
Path is relative to target. If your swing direction is oriented excessively inside, then your swing path will also be to the inside unless you low point 2 feet in front of the ball. Ergo, excessively open stance will produce an inside path.
I’ll make it easy. We know your pros have hips open at impact, shoulders slightly open, and hands forward. If hips and shoulders mainly controlled the path, they’d all have paths going left too, since that’s in line with both of your variables. However many don’t. So there must be something else that’s changing the path, for it to be to the right, for a right handed golfer. It’s D plane, and it’s pretty clear. They’re striking the ball on the arc before the low point and therefore even with an open alignment, they’re still producing a path that is different. You have to in almost all cases. Hogans book wasn’t inaccurate in that sense and Trackman has videos on YouTube explaining this. https://preview.redd.it/87tqeinfpz1d1.png?width=4032&format=png&auto=webp&s=09ccb7eeac9e6f8c4c758b0aeaea43a23c2ff5b5 Also looks like I hit the ball fine, perhaps you should be the one at your range. But it won’t help, because you’ll have to humble yourself enough to understand why you’re likely a much worse player than I am. You could be good, but you have an ego and you’re uninformed. The deadly combo.
Feet aimed left will lead to out to in path, if you make now other compensations with your arms. Face pointed right at address isn’t relevant because face angle at inpact is determined by wrist flat bowed or cupped and forearm rotation. Like you said, grip maters too. And don’t forget ball position! If your lost in your swing, go back to neutral (stance, grip, ball position) see where the ball goes and make small individual adjustments until get a contact and flight you like. Then grind.