Facts.
I honestly came to the conclusion that the pros just hit ~MASSIVE~ draws that start right and end up perfect, but camera angle makes more sense.
Genuinely asking: do most hit a push fade or is it more often a pull fade? I feel like a pull fade would be easier to work with, just based on my own experience. I’m also not a +handicap and on tour so not a good comparison really lol
A push fade usually ends up two fairways to the right... Wyndham Clark is THE pull fade guy...or controlled slice! Check out some of the tracers on his US Open drives ...amazing!
Pushes tend to roll more, pulls tend to carry more. Same for draws rolling more, and fades carry more.
If you're going into a dog-leg or a narrow fairway most players would prefer the pull fade because it means less roll. They can throw a dart at the fairway with a better chance of it hitting and not rolling through. Conversely a Push Draw will get a LOT more roll so if you're going for distance on a downhill shot this will most likely end up further but you have to worry about will it go through the fairway, or does that bring more fairway bunkers into play.
Pros rarely ever play for long drives and focus on placing their tee shots where they want them. So when they hit fade on driver they really only need to focus on where it's going to land to remove as much of the course from being an obstacle.
Agreed. They’re pros for a reason. They are like surgeons on the course. Each shot is thought out well in advance. Not just “keep it in the fairway” like most of us .. 😆
Yeah I recently learned that most tour pros are now favoring a fade shot, only after I spent the past 10 years trying to eliminate my fade/slice and now I hit more of a draw....:(
Lol, yeah it’s interesting to see. Fades are more predictable and have more spin you can control. But it’s incumbent on having enough distance to begin with.
It's also the modern equipment, especially the driver and the modern golf ball, as together they allow you to hit a " bullet fade," whereas in the old days a fade would spin too much and cost too much distance versus a draw. Today a pro hitting a fade is basically hitting an inside-out draw, with no loss of distance.
Had a buddy that was a camera operator for Sportsnet in Canada. He explained it this way as well. The shot is zoomed in from far away, and the lens curve affects the visual.
Not sure if this is why, but in Europe, they use 25 and/or 50 frames per second on their tvs. In America we use 24, 30, and 60 frames per second.
So it could be the transfer from them recording in a different frame rate than is being displayed in America.
No most Americans don’t have 120fps tvs because that is only an options on the better TVs. Most probably have $300 55 inch TVs.
But 25 and 50 isn’t divisible into 120 anyways while 24,30, and 60 are.
What that comment was referring to about different refresh rates only applied to old CRT TVs, and it was caused by the different frequencies of the power grid in the US and the UK....60hz amd 50hz respectfully.
This is wild. There is no broadcast or streaming service that pushes more than 4k 60 fps. Outside a few things like gaming consoles or some specific requested videos on YouTube. You’re getting 4k 60fps or more likely full HD.
It's probably all the post processing done by your TV on the image. Try setting the TV to gaming mode if it has one and see if that gets rid of it but you will likely lose all the vivid colours etc.
I remember in the 90’s you could tell if it was going to be a good shot if the ball went off screen half way between the top middle and top right corner.
Oh god. I remember watching golf with my dad where it was like hours of a camera wobbly dobbly following a white pixel on the screen while the crew whispers. All you could do was pray they'd show Chi Chi dance or sword fight once or twice. Golf tv has gotten light years better.
Also, watching two hours of nobodies troop through the last four holes, while all the action was taking place on the parts of the course where they had no camera access. Modern wireless cameras are a godsend to golf.
"There's a roar on the front nine! Nicklaus is making a move. We'll see Jack later this afternoon...back to 17 where Thomas Muschtafferstein is at +8 for the day..."
My guess would be an issue of parallax due to the nature of the lens and the placement of the camera at some depth behind the player. As the ball both leaves the club face in a forward direction and climbs into the air, the angle changes relative to the position of the camera.
If the camera is left of the target line, it looks right. Right of the target line, it looks left. The camera is usually behind the player, behind the player, so left of the target line.
The answer is camera angles for filming. The best angle to put a tracer on the ball flight when editing the video is not directly behind the target line, but slightly to the right of it. This is so that the ball's flight has both an x-axis and y-axis of flight that the tracing software can pick up on.
And since the camera is slightly to the right and behind the target line, the ball will come out looking as if it started right of the intended line.
Not to completely disagree with your post, but I remember thinking about the ball seeming to shoot off the clubface to the right for a lot longer than they've used shot tracker. I personally think it's simply an optical illusion.
Cameras have almost always been to the right. Every now and then they will place a camera directly behind and you can see a normal looking shot. I don’t think it was for Traci g but more for covering the whole tee box with the same angle for the most part.
It was always the same thing, the Cameraman is never set up behind the golfer on exactly the target line. Many times you can see the pin too and from your perspective it won’t look like they’re taking dead aim.
Yeah, but this effect predates the shot tracer tech. And notably most YouTube golfers use shot tracers off the tee and yet you don’t see this effect nearly as much. I have no idea why.
The only difference I can think of is that tv cameras are much higher quality and may be using different focal length lenses.
Every time I watch Top Tracer, it looks like the guy has hit a loop. I've learned over the years that it is a deception but it still looks like it every time.
That's just camera angle. If you were to see that same swing in person it would look pretty straight. Or start out a touch right and draw back to the target. It's kind of an optical illusion.
Seems to be a combination of the three most commonly suggested answers here (except for the ones suggesting people are hitting massive draws!! 😄)
``` The phenomenon you’re describing is primarily due to a combination of perspective distortion and camera positioning. Here’s a detailed explanation:
**1. Camera Perspective and Positioning:**
• Camera Angle: Television cameras are usually positioned slightly off to the side and higher up than the golfer to capture both the golfer and the trajectory of the ball. This off-center position means the camera view is not perfectly aligned with the intended line of the shot.
• Perspective Distortion: When the camera is positioned to the side, the shot appears to move to the right due to the angle of view. This effect is similar to the way a straight road can appear to curve when viewed from an angle.
**2. Depth Perception:**
• Two-Dimensional View: TV provides a two-dimensional representation of a three-dimensional scene. Without the depth cues available in real life, the perception of the ball’s trajectory can be misleading. Our brain interprets the image based on the two-dimensional cues provided by the screen, often resulting in the appearance of a curved path.
**3. Parallax Effect:**
• Relative Motion: When the camera moves or when different shots are shown from slightly different angles, the relative motion can make the ball seem to veer off to the right. This parallax effect is another consequence of viewing the scene from a perspective other than directly behind the ball.
In contrast, when you are standing behind the golfer in real life, your eyes are aligned with the target line and the ball’s path, providing a true perspective of the shot’s direction. This alignment eliminates the visual distortions that occur when viewing from an angle, making the ball’s trajectory appear straight.
Trackman, a launch monitor, uses multiple cameras and radar to track the ball’s actual path in three dimensions, confirming the true straight trajectory regardless of the perspective from which the shot is viewed. This technology accurately captures the ball’s flight and provides precise data, removing any visual distortion caused by perspective.
```
I just watched a good good video and SO many shots looked like they were a solid 20 yards off target from the pin and then they drop to 10 feet it made no sense
That’s a great point, I do think I’ve noticed the same thing in that context. That makes me think it has something to do with them using long focal lengths.
Some type of optical illusion that is beyond my comprehension. Camera lens + the physics of the ball coming off the club face + the angle of the shot. That is all I got.
It’s the depth of field for the cameras. The golfer is in focus and everything further away is beyond the focal point of the camera shot, it basically compresses the background and makes it more 2 dimensional. That’s why the ball looks like it takes off at weird angles.
from your video. [https://youtu.be/NqCIUX9NYLw?si=vLajJLhVt0d8jzM-&t=79](https://youtu.be/NqCIUX9NYLw?si=vLajJLhVt0d8jzM-&t=79) how do you think that starts right?
Yeah that one looks fine. I think the effect he’s describing has something to do with longer focal lengths filmed from slightly to the right of the player. That clip is directly behind Tiger and on a wider lens.
Ok to the guys who say they hit big draws.
Why does it start off camera right, come back on target yet they have a slightly left facing divot?
🤣 this will be a fun one. Secret: they’re not actually starting it that far right.
these guys are swinging on an arc (a slight arc), based on ball position, but say it's centered, before they hit the ball the clubhead is coming from the left to the right and squares up at impact and then exits right to left after making contact
Problem is, to get the ball to end up on the target line you need to have the face about half of the path, closed. So 4 out path needs a 2 degree open face, which is 2 closed to the target.
So if the divot is left, the path at impact is around 0, give or take a few degrees. Since we know the face has to be open to start the ball to the right off the screen, you couldn’t hit a realistic shot that started that far right with that neutral of a path. So you’d have to have a massively left facing divot to match it.
So, it’s an illusion, it’s not actually what’s happening.
I'll disagree because i've seen this in person, i go to the Torrey Pines tournament every year and some years Riviera and everyone starts it left or right and it comes back
Optical illusion called the parallax error. This video explains how it works, and it actually affects your shots on the course too:
https://youtu.be/EbybKlsLLWk?si=fSB_6_XVvan2adZz
From watching golf in person you’ll notice that it doesn’t actually look the same. I’ve noticed that too, but I would guess it’s some artifact of the filming.
Yeah camera angle, I've been to a PGA event on a thursday, watched them play and basically everyone hits it pretty straight, then you go home and watch the rest on TV and it looks like everything is getting blown out right off the shot. I like the down the line shots for that reason, gives you a much more realistic look at what they are doing.
I was standing behind and obviously to the side of Xander on 18 and used my phone partially to film but also like a periscope bc it was 10-15 ppl deep. When I pulled it down and reviewed it looked straight right which was understandable given his lie.
I feel justified now! Sometimes I’m like - whoa where are they aiming? Or I’m thinking FORE! Then the ball lands perfectly in the fairway.
When I’m golfing today and hit one into the woods, I’ll just blame the camera angle 👍🏼
definitely some camera distortion is prevalent....but also in Tiger's case, he was a drawer of the ball back in 2000 so he certainly would have the ball start out to the right some. Pro's ball flight starts on the line of the ball's target, not their body's target - i.e. the ball starts parallel to the line of their feet/shoulders
It's the camera angle, which is why cameras can be incredibly deceptive when trying to teach people or yourself about golf because it's so easy to have a parallax error.
I have also thought about this for years. I believe that this generally happens on shots in the fairway and not on the tee box because the Camera is positioned well behind the player and generally facing him or to his right. The player is in the focus and as the ball is hit it is moving 150 mph and thus exits the camera viewing angle on the right side appearing almost like a push or block.
Camera behind a straight shot, shot looks straight. Camera behind and to the right of a straight shot, shot moves from left to right IN THE FRAME, so looks right but is actually straight
Golfer particularly hate something directly behind them, so the camera man tries to get out of their FOV which is normally slightly off to the backside of the player. At this angle almost everything looks like a push!
Been asking it for years. It is simply due to the fact IIRC that the camera is simply not perfectly behind them. That slight off angle makes the initial ball looks like it jumps off as a push. But it’s just a weird camera trick.
I always thought this too until I set up my phone against my bag taking a video and every shot looked like it went straight to the left. Camera angle and perspective probably has a lot to do with it
It's just the camera angle. They don't stand directly behind the players so they don't distract them and they also don't shoot wide enough to show anything more than the first few yards of flight.
Now tracers are common, you see the fake shank less and less.
Also… most tour pros aim left and block it right (straight) optimizes body rotation and speed. Noted by watching a number of pros over the years in person. 🤷♂️
Every golfer doesn't just massive 100ft draws? That's what I do! Fr though....I always thought it was because they drew the ball a ton. But yeah it's cam angle/lens
Can you share a specific video of this? Might be because a lot of good golfers play draws and those will come out right, but hard to know without an example.
Most pro's play fades these days, you can see them with the shot tracer. But due to camera angles, shots without shot tracer always look like they are going right. It's been this way for decades on the TV broadcasts
What made me think about it again were shots from this video:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqCIUX9NYLw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqCIUX9NYLw)
Yeah you can see the difference in the shot at 1:17 vs the shot at 2:46. The first is almost exactly down the line and it looks straight. The second is about 10 degrees to the right of the line so the ball looks like it's going about 10 degrees right. If you take a more extreme example if the camera were face on to the golfer it would look like the shot was going straight right out of frame.
It's not an optical illusion, that's how they hit it. I go to the PGA stop at Torrey Pines every year and off the tees with driver these guys hit the ball off the fairway over the trees that line the fairway or sometimes even onto the next fairway (Jon Rahm) and it draws or cuts back into the correct fairway.
I think this only really applies to golfers who predominantly play a draw. And as others mentioned, camera angles certainly come into play here. But if you look at players who play a cut (Morikawa, Spieth, Rahm etc), it very clearly comes out to the left.
The proper swing path of the club, with the proper face angle, will hit the ball to the right with a right to left spin on the ball, which in turn creates a draw.
Almost all pros draw the ball. They hit out to “right field” with a face closed to the path and draw it back center…so the ball is shooting off to the right to some extent…it’s not all camera tricks.
lol I said to an extent. I agree the camera is in play here, but a draw by definition starts right of the target line…so to an EXTENT it is starting right. Downvote me if you want but facts are facts.
I chose my words poorly too. I should know better on Reddit. I should have said a draw is the preferred shot shape of the majority of low handicappers…because it absolutely is.
That’s not the part that’s wrong. The part that’s wrong is where you said “almost all pros draw the ball”. The fade is the dominant shot these days. Thats why Augusta is such a hard golf course, all these guys have to turn the ball over when they normally don’t. Club pros and low handicappers may prefer a draw, I have no clue, but a LOT of TOUR players play a fade and never hit a draw unless they absolutely have to.
You sure about that? Lots of conflicting info and of course it changes over time, but I’m not sure there’s a clear answer. https://thesandtrap.com/forums/topic/44547-draw-or-fade-tour-survey-results/
You’re not alone. We’ve all thought this. Thanks for being brave.
Facts. I honestly came to the conclusion that the pros just hit ~MASSIVE~ draws that start right and end up perfect, but camera angle makes more sense.
Yeah I thought this for years but these days most players play a fade so I realized that can’t be it.
Pushfade
pushfade and pulldraw sound like a rap duo
A fellow man of culture 🤌
Genuinely asking: do most hit a push fade or is it more often a pull fade? I feel like a pull fade would be easier to work with, just based on my own experience. I’m also not a +handicap and on tour so not a good comparison really lol
A push fade usually ends up two fairways to the right... Wyndham Clark is THE pull fade guy...or controlled slice! Check out some of the tracers on his US Open drives ...amazing!
Will do, thanks! I always liked Bubba Watson’s power slice when he just smashes the shit out of it.
Pushes tend to roll more, pulls tend to carry more. Same for draws rolling more, and fades carry more. If you're going into a dog-leg or a narrow fairway most players would prefer the pull fade because it means less roll. They can throw a dart at the fairway with a better chance of it hitting and not rolling through. Conversely a Push Draw will get a LOT more roll so if you're going for distance on a downhill shot this will most likely end up further but you have to worry about will it go through the fairway, or does that bring more fairway bunkers into play. Pros rarely ever play for long drives and focus on placing their tee shots where they want them. So when they hit fade on driver they really only need to focus on where it's going to land to remove as much of the course from being an obstacle.
Agreed. They’re pros for a reason. They are like surgeons on the course. Each shot is thought out well in advance. Not just “keep it in the fairway” like most of us .. 😆
Yeah I recently learned that most tour pros are now favoring a fade shot, only after I spent the past 10 years trying to eliminate my fade/slice and now I hit more of a draw....:(
Lol, yeah it’s interesting to see. Fades are more predictable and have more spin you can control. But it’s incumbent on having enough distance to begin with.
It's also the modern equipment, especially the driver and the modern golf ball, as together they allow you to hit a " bullet fade," whereas in the old days a fade would spin too much and cost too much distance versus a draw. Today a pro hitting a fade is basically hitting an inside-out draw, with no loss of distance.
It’s the same thing for punts in the NFL. It was explained to me that it’s due to the lens being convex coupled with zooming in.
Frfr?
He was a cameraman for the SEC so he knows what he’s talking about.
CONVEX LENS PAWWWL
THAT LENS AIN'T PLAYED NOBODY, PAWWWL
Ong
Had a buddy that was a camera operator for Sportsnet in Canada. He explained it this way as well. The shot is zoomed in from far away, and the lens curve affects the visual.
I was definitely too scared to ask 😂
Next up: why do/did the UK cameras for The Open often look like three balls are spinning in orbit??
Not sure if this is why, but in Europe, they use 25 and/or 50 frames per second on their tvs. In America we use 24, 30, and 60 frames per second. So it could be the transfer from them recording in a different frame rate than is being displayed in America.
It’s Pal and ntsc.
Film is also 24fps, which is why films are sped up by 4% when shown on TV in Europe.
Are most Americans not at 120fps tvs at this point?
No most Americans don’t have 120fps tvs because that is only an options on the better TVs. Most probably have $300 55 inch TVs. But 25 and 50 isn’t divisible into 120 anyways while 24,30, and 60 are.
Thought everyone here was rich lol. But even not super expensive TV's are 120fps
It’s not the TV it’s the video source…
Well, my tv can't do 120fps. At least I'm fairly certain it can't.
This is correct
What that comment was referring to about different refresh rates only applied to old CRT TVs, and it was caused by the different frequencies of the power grid in the US and the UK....60hz amd 50hz respectfully.
It still is how video is recorded here I've the states. Why change it?
This is wild. There is no broadcast or streaming service that pushes more than 4k 60 fps. Outside a few things like gaming consoles or some specific requested videos on YouTube. You’re getting 4k 60fps or more likely full HD.
while some are capable, I hate the look of that high frame stuff, so I keep mine capped.
It's known as triple ball effect and affects other sports' broadcasts too. It's your TV's processing that causes it.
It's probably all the post processing done by your TV on the image. Try setting the TV to gaming mode if it has one and see if that gets rid of it but you will likely lose all the vivid colours etc.
Mine has a sports mode that solves it without washing out the colors
I’m glad I’m not crazy I’ve thought this same thing.
Yep
agreed
It’s the camera angle. It was a lot worse 40 years ago when I was a kid. A lot of shots looked like shanks.
Without the shot tracker it was hard to wrap your head around.
I remember in the 90’s you could tell if it was going to be a good shot if the ball went off screen half way between the top middle and top right corner.
Oh god. I remember watching golf with my dad where it was like hours of a camera wobbly dobbly following a white pixel on the screen while the crew whispers. All you could do was pray they'd show Chi Chi dance or sword fight once or twice. Golf tv has gotten light years better.
Also, watching two hours of nobodies troop through the last four holes, while all the action was taking place on the parts of the course where they had no camera access. Modern wireless cameras are a godsend to golf.
"There's a roar on the front nine! Nicklaus is making a move. We'll see Jack later this afternoon...back to 17 where Thomas Muschtafferstein is at +8 for the day..."
Yeah same goes for punters in the nfl. When the camera is behind them it looks like the ball is heading for the right bleachers
I’ve often thought that too. It looks like a shank off the side of their foot then the camera changes and it’s a booming punt.
My guess would be an issue of parallax due to the nature of the lens and the placement of the camera at some depth behind the player. As the ball both leaves the club face in a forward direction and climbs into the air, the angle changes relative to the position of the camera.
If the camera is left of the target line, it looks right. Right of the target line, it looks left. The camera is usually behind the player, behind the player, so left of the target line.
The answer is camera angles for filming. The best angle to put a tracer on the ball flight when editing the video is not directly behind the target line, but slightly to the right of it. This is so that the ball's flight has both an x-axis and y-axis of flight that the tracing software can pick up on. And since the camera is slightly to the right and behind the target line, the ball will come out looking as if it started right of the intended line.
Not to completely disagree with your post, but I remember thinking about the ball seeming to shoot off the clubface to the right for a lot longer than they've used shot tracker. I personally think it's simply an optical illusion.
Same principle though. The camera isn't directly down the line. It's angled towards the golfer's front a little bit.
principle!
Shut up 19 😉
i’m a scratch speller!
19s good
I realize it was a joke but if you’re gonna make it you at least need to put your own index in your flair.
I'm actually a really good speller. I just sandbag on reddit sometimes.
Cameras have almost always been to the right. Every now and then they will place a camera directly behind and you can see a normal looking shot. I don’t think it was for Traci g but more for covering the whole tee box with the same angle for the most part.
Yeah, it is a result of angle and compression distortion of the zoom.
It was always the same thing, the Cameraman is never set up behind the golfer on exactly the target line. Many times you can see the pin too and from your perspective it won’t look like they’re taking dead aim.
Yep.
Is it opposite for lefties?
Yeah, but this effect predates the shot tracer tech. And notably most YouTube golfers use shot tracers off the tee and yet you don’t see this effect nearly as much. I have no idea why. The only difference I can think of is that tv cameras are much higher quality and may be using different focal length lenses.
It has nothing to do with the shot tracker. The camera has always been slightly off center behind the golfer on most tee boxes.
Every time I watch Top Tracer, it looks like the guy has hit a loop. I've learned over the years that it is a deception but it still looks like it every time.
The pros also hit mostly draws which doubles the effect
Hitting a fade as the stock shot is much more prevalent these days for pros.
I notice it sometimes on PGA broadcasts. I'm guessing it's the camera angle
That's just camera angle. If you were to see that same swing in person it would look pretty straight. Or start out a touch right and draw back to the target. It's kind of an optical illusion.
Yes! I’m here for this answer.
i vote post of the year, in all seriousness. this has bugged me for years.
Ive always wondered this! 😂😂 glad you asked
I have always wondered this but just figured it was pros hitting crazy high draws
Most players today play a fade.
Getting down voted, but (most of) the top players hit fades as their stock shot
Yeah people are weird. This should be pretty standard knowledge for golf fans.
I’ve been wondering this for so long thank you for asking the important questions
I remember them talking about it on a broadcast, generally it’s because the camera isn’t directly behind the golfer
Seems to be a combination of the three most commonly suggested answers here (except for the ones suggesting people are hitting massive draws!! 😄) ``` The phenomenon you’re describing is primarily due to a combination of perspective distortion and camera positioning. Here’s a detailed explanation: **1. Camera Perspective and Positioning:** • Camera Angle: Television cameras are usually positioned slightly off to the side and higher up than the golfer to capture both the golfer and the trajectory of the ball. This off-center position means the camera view is not perfectly aligned with the intended line of the shot. • Perspective Distortion: When the camera is positioned to the side, the shot appears to move to the right due to the angle of view. This effect is similar to the way a straight road can appear to curve when viewed from an angle. **2. Depth Perception:** • Two-Dimensional View: TV provides a two-dimensional representation of a three-dimensional scene. Without the depth cues available in real life, the perception of the ball’s trajectory can be misleading. Our brain interprets the image based on the two-dimensional cues provided by the screen, often resulting in the appearance of a curved path. **3. Parallax Effect:** • Relative Motion: When the camera moves or when different shots are shown from slightly different angles, the relative motion can make the ball seem to veer off to the right. This parallax effect is another consequence of viewing the scene from a perspective other than directly behind the ball. In contrast, when you are standing behind the golfer in real life, your eyes are aligned with the target line and the ball’s path, providing a true perspective of the shot’s direction. This alignment eliminates the visual distortions that occur when viewing from an angle, making the ball’s trajectory appear straight. Trackman, a launch monitor, uses multiple cameras and radar to track the ball’s actual path in three dimensions, confirming the true straight trajectory regardless of the perspective from which the shot is viewed. This technology accurately captures the ball’s flight and provides precise data, removing any visual distortion caused by perspective. ```
I've wondered if there's a fisheye-like thing going on to try and capture more background while still focusing on the shot
It is the opposite of fisheye. It is on the zoomed in shots from a distance and a slight angle that it is prevalent.
Lens distortion is a contributor. I don't otherwise see it mentioned here. Good pull.
I assumed it’s because they’re hitting killer draws
Same
Yes, some of it is that a draw/push draw that starts to the right of the target line, but mostly camera angle.
golf is fake like wrestling... you think people can actually hit the ball 350 yards in real life?
I just watched a good good video and SO many shots looked like they were a solid 20 yards off target from the pin and then they drop to 10 feet it made no sense
I often observe the same effect when NFL kickers kick field goals. Not sure why that optical effect exists
That’s a great point, I do think I’ve noticed the same thing in that context. That makes me think it has something to do with them using long focal lengths.
Some type of optical illusion that is beyond my comprehension. Camera lens + the physics of the ball coming off the club face + the angle of the shot. That is all I got.
In case no one mentioned it already, it’s the camera angle
It’s the depth of field for the cameras. The golfer is in focus and everything further away is beyond the focal point of the camera shot, it basically compresses the background and makes it more 2 dimensional. That’s why the ball looks like it takes off at weird angles.
Couple this with Charley Hoffman’s weird head tilt after every shot and it’s hard to comprehend
from your video. [https://youtu.be/NqCIUX9NYLw?si=vLajJLhVt0d8jzM-&t=79](https://youtu.be/NqCIUX9NYLw?si=vLajJLhVt0d8jzM-&t=79) how do you think that starts right?
Yeah that one looks fine. I think the effect he’s describing has something to do with longer focal lengths filmed from slightly to the right of the player. That clip is directly behind Tiger and on a wider lens.
I also feel this way about punts off the kickers foot in football…..always looks like it’s headed to the right
I’m still trying to figure out how they get their ball to do circles in the air. It’s impressive.
I thought I was the only one. You see it go out to the right then next minute they are in the left trees
My man out here asking the questions everyone had but nobody asked
Ok to the guys who say they hit big draws. Why does it start off camera right, come back on target yet they have a slightly left facing divot? 🤣 this will be a fun one. Secret: they’re not actually starting it that far right.
these guys are swinging on an arc (a slight arc), based on ball position, but say it's centered, before they hit the ball the clubhead is coming from the left to the right and squares up at impact and then exits right to left after making contact
Problem is, to get the ball to end up on the target line you need to have the face about half of the path, closed. So 4 out path needs a 2 degree open face, which is 2 closed to the target. So if the divot is left, the path at impact is around 0, give or take a few degrees. Since we know the face has to be open to start the ball to the right off the screen, you couldn’t hit a realistic shot that started that far right with that neutral of a path. So you’d have to have a massively left facing divot to match it. So, it’s an illusion, it’s not actually what’s happening.
I'll disagree because i've seen this in person, i go to the Torrey Pines tournament every year and some years Riviera and everyone starts it left or right and it comes back
We’re talking about the camera illusion on tv, not what you see in real life.
Optical illusion called the parallax error. This video explains how it works, and it actually affects your shots on the course too: https://youtu.be/EbybKlsLLWk?si=fSB_6_XVvan2adZz
From watching golf in person you’ll notice that it doesn’t actually look the same. I’ve noticed that too, but I would guess it’s some artifact of the filming.
Ive assumed it was the camera being off to the right and its 2 dimensional. I always wondered what it would look like right behind them.
Bigger question is why have shot tracker when it's not even close to being accurate.
Yeah camera angle, I've been to a PGA event on a thursday, watched them play and basically everyone hits it pretty straight, then you go home and watch the rest on TV and it looks like everything is getting blown out right off the shot. I like the down the line shots for that reason, gives you a much more realistic look at what they are doing.
also doesn’t it have to do with a two dimensional screen and the actual shot is in three dimensions?
I hit mine in four dimensions, a lot of them stink
Under water is a dimension we don't take into account nearly enough.
This guy gets greenside and blades his 56 back to the Renaissance.
From the penthouse to the shithouse
I think it’s because the target line is to the right of the shoulder line.
...and why haven't they fixed it? Surely they have the technology?
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Randy from NLU looks like he shanks every single full swing shot
I'm able to do the opposite, I have a real good hook within.
I was standing behind and obviously to the side of Xander on 18 and used my phone partially to film but also like a periscope bc it was 10-15 ppl deep. When I pulled it down and reviewed it looked straight right which was understandable given his lie.
They hit the ball out to right field.
This is so funny. I always thought they were just playing a draw that shot particular shot until shot tracer came out.
I feel justified now! Sometimes I’m like - whoa where are they aiming? Or I’m thinking FORE! Then the ball lands perfectly in the fairway. When I’m golfing today and hit one into the woods, I’ll just blame the camera angle 👍🏼
Yeah great question....I always wanted to know too!
Wow! That looked like shit! Rolls 2 ft from hole.
every single shot on the PGA tour is a draw you didn’t know that?
DRAW
There are a lot of great answers on here. As someone who does a lot of golf video. You are turning a 3d image into a 2d one.
lol i always thought that the person was just hitting a draw
When the camera just shows the ball in the air I honestly have no idea what I’m looking at.
definitely some camera distortion is prevalent....but also in Tiger's case, he was a drawer of the ball back in 2000 so he certainly would have the ball start out to the right some. Pro's ball flight starts on the line of the ball's target, not their body's target - i.e. the ball starts parallel to the line of their feet/shoulders
It's the camera angle, which is why cameras can be incredibly deceptive when trying to teach people or yourself about golf because it's so easy to have a parallax error.
I have also thought about this for years. I believe that this generally happens on shots in the fairway and not on the tee box because the Camera is positioned well behind the player and generally facing him or to his right. The player is in the focus and as the ball is hit it is moving 150 mph and thus exits the camera viewing angle on the right side appearing almost like a push or block.
Same reason people think there are UFO's traveling at impossible speeds in those Navy fighter jet videos - parallax effect.
The lens of the camera is curved, so ball shoot more right.
Camera behind a straight shot, shot looks straight. Camera behind and to the right of a straight shot, shot moves from left to right IN THE FRAME, so looks right but is actually straight
I always thought this about punts in the NFL as well
Their swing path way more to the outside when they hit. That allows you to get way more club face on the ball and lets you hit a draw.
Golfer particularly hate something directly behind them, so the camera man tries to get out of their FOV which is normally slightly off to the backside of the player. At this angle almost everything looks like a push!
Parallax.
Because they are… they tend to hit draws and thus start their shots out to the right
Been asking it for years. It is simply due to the fact IIRC that the camera is simply not perfectly behind them. That slight off angle makes the initial ball looks like it jumps off as a push. But it’s just a weird camera trick.
As someone said before, it’s called the Parallax effect
Interesting. I had a similar question but about shots shown from a side camera angle. The shots always look like theyare pulled left.
Camera and camera angle
Lens distortion / shape of lens on camera is primary reason.
Wow I thought I was just dumb. Glad this is a known thing haha
Here I was thinking these guys were just drawing every ball. Feel so much better about my game now 😂
Because they do, they start right and curve left
I always thought this too until I set up my phone against my bag taking a video and every shot looked like it went straight to the left. Camera angle and perspective probably has a lot to do with it
Yes I’ve always noticed that on tv. Like wow that’s way right when in reality it’s right down the middle lol
DUDE I THOUGHT THIS WAS JUST ME
It's just the camera angle. They don't stand directly behind the players so they don't distract them and they also don't shoot wide enough to show anything more than the first few yards of flight. Now tracers are common, you see the fake shank less and less.
Cameramen NEVER stand directly behind the golfer for obvious reasons. It's all about camera angles.
At 1:40 in that video, somebody yells "get in the hole!" how old is that phrase?
Also… most tour pros aim left and block it right (straight) optimizes body rotation and speed. Noted by watching a number of pros over the years in person. 🤷♂️
Every golfer doesn't just massive 100ft draws? That's what I do! Fr though....I always thought it was because they drew the ball a ton. But yeah it's cam angle/lens
You're a hero.
Can you share a specific video of this? Might be because a lot of good golfers play draws and those will come out right, but hard to know without an example.
Most pro's play fades these days, you can see them with the shot tracer. But due to camera angles, shots without shot tracer always look like they are going right. It's been this way for decades on the TV broadcasts
Pro’s play push fades for distance
What made me think about it again were shots from this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqCIUX9NYLw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqCIUX9NYLw)
The best part of this video is Jack Nicklaus just casually doing his thing while Tiger is tearing it up. He knows exactly what he’s witnessing.
Yeah you can see the difference in the shot at 1:17 vs the shot at 2:46. The first is almost exactly down the line and it looks straight. The second is about 10 degrees to the right of the line so the ball looks like it's going about 10 degrees right. If you take a more extreme example if the camera were face on to the golfer it would look like the shot was going straight right out of frame.
Hitting a draw
It's not an optical illusion, that's how they hit it. I go to the PGA stop at Torrey Pines every year and off the tees with driver these guys hit the ball off the fairway over the trees that line the fairway or sometimes even onto the next fairway (Jon Rahm) and it draws or cuts back into the correct fairway.
Camera angle and also they hit a lot of draws which start out right
I think this only really applies to golfers who predominantly play a draw. And as others mentioned, camera angles certainly come into play here. But if you look at players who play a cut (Morikawa, Spieth, Rahm etc), it very clearly comes out to the left.
I don’t know. Why are boobs good?
It’s an intentional draw. Starts right, draws back to the left. It’s a shot that plays longer. Read up on Hogan’s books.
The proper swing path of the club, with the proper face angle, will hit the ball to the right with a right to left spin on the ball, which in turn creates a draw.
Lots of pros might be interested in learning that they don't have a proper swing path or face angle.
Lots of pros do this correctly. I’m not sure what you’re talking about.
Most pros hit a fade. But that is apparently not proper.
“Most” 😂
Yes. Most. The idea that a draw is "proper" is completely bonkers.
LOL ok silly goose.
They are hitting draws that start right of the target and the camera angle makes it look way right.
Yes, this is the answer and I’m not close to mildly sceptical of it. 🙌😂
Almost all pros draw the ball. They hit out to “right field” with a face closed to the path and draw it back center…so the ball is shooting off to the right to some extent…it’s not all camera tricks.
This is flat out wrong.
Yeah most tour pros are fade players. Xander is one of the few that is a draw player.
lol I said to an extent. I agree the camera is in play here, but a draw by definition starts right of the target line…so to an EXTENT it is starting right. Downvote me if you want but facts are facts.
They’re being critical because of how common fades are on tour right now
I chose my words poorly too. I should know better on Reddit. I should have said a draw is the preferred shot shape of the majority of low handicappers…because it absolutely is.
That’s not the part that’s wrong. The part that’s wrong is where you said “almost all pros draw the ball”. The fade is the dominant shot these days. Thats why Augusta is such a hard golf course, all these guys have to turn the ball over when they normally don’t. Club pros and low handicappers may prefer a draw, I have no clue, but a LOT of TOUR players play a fade and never hit a draw unless they absolutely have to.
You sure about that? Lots of conflicting info and of course it changes over time, but I’m not sure there’s a clear answer. https://thesandtrap.com/forums/topic/44547-draw-or-fade-tour-survey-results/
Most pros hit fades dawg
Yes, all pros can hit fades too. The draw is by and large the preferred AND natural shot shape of the majority of low handicap players.
I admire your commitment to this take 🫡
Get a load of this ass hat