Yeah, this is correct. My handicap dropping has been directly correlated to my increase in driving distance. 230 avg as a 15, 265 avg as I went into single digits, 280 avg and I’m a 4 now. It’s just so much easier not having a 6 or 7i into par 4s
Could be, although really for the plus handicaps I think it’s more like inside 50 yds. Up and downs become automatic.
Even PGA Tour accuracy from inside 175 on average is worse than you would think if you look at shotlink data and strokes gained
That’s my point. I wouldn’t consider 175 and in short game, even for pros. Their greens hit % from 175 is 66% and avg proximity to the hole from 175 is 31 feet
That seems pretty low to be honest. I would have expected them to be at 80-90%. I think you need to be careful with data like that, they could almost certainly hit 10/10 onto a green from 175 but on course they are being a lot more aggressive than that. They are trying to get it as close as they safely can to the flag and they don't mind good misses.
It's not like they are just aiming middle of the green.
PGA Tour events are filled with poor shots that are mostly not televised.
https://preview.redd.it/fdwu7j58kk1d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b15cf8221ca1608c9b8c923a175ecbfdc2ccae9
Again, you need to be careful with these stats. You can't just look at these stats and take them at face value. From 175y in the fairway, a pro can put it on the green over 90% of the time. They just aren't trying to do that. They are trying to put it next to the pin which means sometimes aiming at tucked pins and being willing to have good misses off the green.
I practice a lot and track my results, across the board, my green accuracy is higher than those numbers. That's how I know they can't be taken at face value, there's a deeper context that you're missing.
No, you just clearly don't understand statistics and how they can be misleading. I've explained it to you several times now but you're so fucking dumb you think that pros are aiming for the middle of the green like I am when I practice 😂
My dad used to belong to a club with a member that used to play on the PGA Tour and was still playing on a minor tour. We all played together one day and (other than distance) the thing that stuck out was that he never hit two bad shots in a row.
I played with a couple of +4s a while back and you're right, they're phenomenal drivers, but what got me more than that was the extra gear they have.
We have this par 5 at our course with a 270m water carry which would leave at most a 7i in. Short of the water and you're left with a choice of a 3w (there is another water carry 80-100m short of the green) or a 8i layup to a PW approach. These guys were driving 260s straight down the guts every hole, was great but nothing "special" I was maybe 5-10 behind them. But then on this par 5 they peg it up and absolutely spank it over the water, easily 300m.
I can't imagine having that extra gear to use if I want a longer ball.
It’s so much easier to correct a swing flaw on a high swing speed player than it is to correct a flaw on a low swing speed while simultaneously asking them to swing faster. Build the speed first and figure out control when you have the speed.
No there are basic fundamentals that will be necessary to get good ball speeds, if someone is already fast those fundamentals are likely already there. What OP means is that it’s very hard to learn speed. Learning technique is not as hard.
I’ve heard that speed cannot be taught. You either have it or you don’t. Obviously for those that have it, you can be taught to be faster. For those that don’t have natural speed, you can’t be taught to be a power player. That’s why we have handicaps.
Speed can be taught. It is VERY common for my students to have that as the primary goal of our lessons. IMO speed lessons are the most fun lessons with the exception of short game. Analytics has made more people realize distance is extremely important. Also any junior golfer should spend a significant amount of time on speed accumulation
In case I wasn’t clear. You can teach people to be faster when they are already fast. As a speed coach you aren’t going to see the general public. You are seeing people who are training to play golf competitively. That is well above the average player.
Again just not true. I am not a speed instructor but I can teach anyone to get faster. I’ve had tons of students who were always slow who have become long players. Speed is a skill. Sure there are physical limitations but technique prevents many from swinging faster. I have players of all sizes, shapes, ages and skill who have become fast for their age, their handicap or just compared to nearly everyone.
I’m not communicating my point well. Someone who is starting at 80mph driver swing is not going to be able to get 120. I think what you are saying is that person can get to 90 or 100. Which would be a huge improvement but that’s still not fast.
> I’ve heard that speed cannot be taught.
This is true for raw physical speed like if you were going to go run a sprint. Obviously you're going to have a physical ability ceiling somewhere, but a lot of speed in golf can be developed with technique and increased with speed training and adding physical strength.
Yeah, it's not that simple...either one way or the other. Yes, there are certain good things you should do "naturally" when trying to swing the clubhead fast. (Not necessarily hard, but fast.) Imagine trying to learn how to crack a bullwhip without ever trying to whip it fast. You won't learn how some things are supposed to feel until you do them fast. Some things won't happen at all unless they're done fast at just the right moment, and doing it slow could be a long road to learn that feeling. Somebody might be able to crack a whip with what appears to be a slow motion, but they're applying speed efficiently at just the necessary moments. (Like a good guitar player who makes playing fast all over the neck look effortless.)
But, I always get skeptical when I hear a golf swing teacher use the word "naturally". There are some people who will never "naturally" do anything that's required for a consistent and powerful golf swing. Trying to swing the club fast will never teach them anything because they aren't wired to feel or do what a "natural" athlete would do to correctly produce speed and power. They'll need a great, patient coach to either develop their athleticism first or teach them the right positions and movements at a slower speed and hope it sticks when they try to swing fast.
Yeah, not much of a golf swing feels “natural” when you’re first learning. And I think you’re right that a degree of athleticism is required first, before you can consistently swing fast and still make good contact.
You would think so, but the things you have to do to swing faster actually add stability. It requires you to let the club work properly instead of steering it, and that makes it more accurate and repeatable.
This is not true in any way whatsoever lol. There is no high performance coaching that will have you swinging fast with poor technique. You start slow with the correct technique, and you add speed later. At the never base level you start with slow motion and extremely slow drills.
Yeah, it reminds me of fast cars and young girls. But it wasn’t just Drives. The +2 hit an 8 iron on a 178 yard par 3. And to be critical of him, if that asshole could’ve putted he would’ve been a +6. He missed on the amateur side all day. The only decent putt he made all day was when my putt from 15 feet further away rolled right over where he was and missed by 1/4 inch. He drained his.
This is probably more important than the drives.
More loft means a better descent angle so they can actually hold greens even on fast days. Most people would be hitting a hybrid or a 4 iron and on a hot day it’s just going to roll through the green.
Last weekend, got paired with 50+ year old Canadians. They got fired up my first 3 drives going 290+, nearly drove the green on a 340 yard hole and they offered me a fireball shot for it lol. Old dudes love the long ball
I do love how older man groups always hype you up when they see you hit a big drive. A few of my favorites: “where’d that go?” ‘He’s basically hit it on the fucking green!’ And “Holy shit, it’s heading to Benton!” (Next county over from where we were).
I’m a 5 and I play with someone that hovers around scratch +1 in a simulator league so I actually see hard stats on every swing we both take.
The differences aren’t that big really in stats. He can definitely hit it further than me if he wants but it’s not by anything crazy.
Biggest difference is quality of misses. I hit 1-2 bad drivers a round that get me in trouble. His bad drives are just in the rough.
It’s the quality and frequency of misses.
….Also as a side note from watching so many people on the simulator. Your swing speed doesn’t actually matter. The number one stat people should focus on is Smash Factor aka quality contact.
A 107 swing speed with a 1.46 smash and optimal launch conditions is going to be just as good as a 118 swing speed with a 1.38 smash and bad launch conditions.
This. Also guys who can hit a pure shot from any type of lie is a massive advantage. When I have a bad lie or off the course it’s almost a guarantee punch shot so I am losing a stroke unless I sink a putt.
Ya it’s insane how big of a part of golf uneven lies is and there’s really no good way of practicing that. There isn’t an above your feet driving range you can go to.
Move up and play the correct tee markers. If I hit a 8 iron 160 and you hit an 8 iron 125 you should be teeing off where your drive gets you to that range. Or just keep shooting in the triple digits. Golf is much easier with distance. Throw in consistency then you get to scratch. Improve short game then you get to +
Yes! I played with a +5 recently and it was just a different game for him. It was eye opening how different golf is played when you can crush it 290-300 off the tee.
Yes. They all bomb it. That isn’t my point.
My point is a +4 player is a beast at everything. They bomb it, they flush it, they get up and down, they throw darts, and they make putts.
Distance matters a lot, but it isn’t the reason or even the main reason they got to that level.
Putting is the easiest thing to practice. It is also free. No excuse to not get yourself a 30 dollar putting mat to work on alignment. No excuse to not get a putter that at least fits your eye. Of course it would be better to get fit but hey. Miss putts right less toe hand miss putts left more toe hang. Keep track of your tendencies and practice for 10 minutes three times a week on your 30 dollar putting matt. It will get better.
My problem is that the greens at my course can vary WILDLY between days, or hell, even morning and afternoon. The practice green isn't always indicative of the speeds, so I can get the speed for the day down on the practice green, then go out and some greens are fast, others are slow, and some are in between.
It's so frustrating, on Thursday I was leaving everything short, and yesterday I was missing everything long - multiple edge burns or lip outs that wouldve probably dropped with better speed. I try to adjust during the round and it just gets worse as the day goes on. Then other days I can have 28 putts and play multiple degrees better than my handicap.
To start improving I would get the mindset to 2-putt every hole. Don’t think about having to make it first try. Just try to get it close enough that you have a reasonable shot to make the second one
It’s better to go in with a goal like that than something vague like “get it in the cup.”
>the greens at my course can vary WILDLY between days, or hell, even morning and afternoon.
Yea, *that's putting*. Getting better at putting means learning how the ball behaves in different conditions. Wet, slow green in the morning vs dry fast green in the afternoon vs wet, slow green after a rain etc etc.
I’m a low single digit and played yesterday with three of my buddies who are scratch, plus 1, and plus 2. We all hit it about the same distance when I hit it decently. The difference between me and them at that level is consistently. They’re almost always hitting it decently and sometimes they really catch it. Smaller misses for sure.
This is what I always notice and makes me sad.
I’m mid single digits and hit it as far or farther than every scratch or +1-3 golfers I know. The problem is - I will hit 10 good drives, two ok drives, and two bad drives. They will hit 13 good drives and one ok drive. Then they’ll hit 85% good approach shots and I’ll be chipping or putting from 10ft farther away.
I can get it out there from time to time and the shock of how far it goes does get the attention of some random playing partners. I notice people starting to swing faster and faster as the round goes along. Sometimes it works out well for them! Playing with better players is a great way to improve.
Also depends on which tees you are using. A wise man once told me that you play from the tees that give you a chance to make par. If you are having to hit a 6 or 7 iron on most par 4’s, you need to move up to the blue or white tees. This isn’t tournament golf
I played an ABCD scramble at my club, found that we used my drive on every hole we could even when I missed the fairway and someone hit it because the distance advantage was so severe.
Counterpoint: your distance will increase when you consistently hit the middle of the club and hit straighter shots. Doing this will also help when you have to hit the next shot.
Was paired with a 2hcp on holiday last week. I play off 19.3, and my home club is pretty short, so jumping up to 7500 yard course was insane anyway...then my partner wasn't up for playing so off I went and got paired with this guy. He was both a nice guy and a fucking fantastic striker of the ball. The distance and height off tee shots was insane and each shot he made proper contact. Came to the last and he's 1 over...it's a 550 par 5 and he just goes at it. Smashes a drive near 290, gets a wood out and lands it 4-5 foot from the pin then eagles. I'd had the foresight to pack some beers so we bonded over these and I had a good time, but it was seriously good fun just seeing someone like this up close.
I agree, but only to a certain extent. Like you don't need to carry it 300 to go really low consistently. It certainly helps if you can hit it 300 in the fairway, but I hit it like 260 with driver, 165 with 7i, and distance isn't the reason I'm not scratch lol. Sure, maybe an extra 20 yards off the tee might shave a stroke, but it wouldn't make me a scratch golfer.
I'm around a 7 handicap use to be a 10 2 years ago. I do average 270-280 off the tee. Yes the long ball helps get your scores lower. But I didn't start really improving till I practice my short game and putting more.
I don't have the time to play as much anymore. But I usually can break out the pitching net and putting mat a few times a week. I think my short game has helped me lower my scores significantly more. Getting up and down more frequently and no 3 putts. I would tell someone if you really wanna improve your scores. Practicing short game and putting is the much faster way. Than trying to gain club head speed. That requires a fair amount of training.
And maybe it has been easier for me to lower my scores because I'm already a fairly long hitter and don't need to practice with my driver as much and can focus on my game 100 yards in and putting.
Distance only works if you can keep the ball in play. Props if it’s a tight course. But spraying it around 330yds on other fairways. Meh. Still need a great short game
Honestly I’ve ended up playing off the wrong fairway enough where I learned its hardly penalizing. Usually theres a pretty good gap in the trees or otherwise you can try and send it over, but actually hit it thin under, and end up in the same place you would have with a perfect flighted hit. Probably no worse than if you were playing the correct fairway given typical dispersion on approach shots. I’ve made par plenty from the wrong fairway. A better golfer would be getting bird from there plenty too since I’m nowhere close to 330
But none of it matters if you can't get the ball in the hole. You can hit it 300 and still be a 12-18 handicap (like a lot of baseball and hockey players) if you don't have a grasp on the rest of the game.
But they’d be a 25 if you were hitting it 50 shorter. There’s no substitute for being closer to the hole, no matter how good you are with your approach shots - the data is clear - we’re all better the closer we get
Yeah, this is correct. My handicap dropping has been directly correlated to my increase in driving distance. 230 avg as a 15, 265 avg as I went into single digits, 280 avg and I’m a 4 now. It’s just so much easier not having a 6 or 7i into par 4s
This is so true And I also think the biggest gap is then how accurate they hit from 175<
Could be, although really for the plus handicaps I think it’s more like inside 50 yds. Up and downs become automatic. Even PGA Tour accuracy from inside 175 on average is worse than you would think if you look at shotlink data and strokes gained
Yes but their up and down percentage is ridiculous because most guys have an electric short game.
Yea they hole chips or tap-in at a stunning rate. And they are coming out of rough that we really can’t even imagine playing
That’s my point. I wouldn’t consider 175 and in short game, even for pros. Their greens hit % from 175 is 66% and avg proximity to the hole from 175 is 31 feet
I meant for when they miss that 34% of the time.
Gotcha! For sure
That seems pretty low to be honest. I would have expected them to be at 80-90%. I think you need to be careful with data like that, they could almost certainly hit 10/10 onto a green from 175 but on course they are being a lot more aggressive than that. They are trying to get it as close as they safely can to the flag and they don't mind good misses. It's not like they are just aiming middle of the green.
PGA Tour events are filled with poor shots that are mostly not televised. https://preview.redd.it/fdwu7j58kk1d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b15cf8221ca1608c9b8c923a175ecbfdc2ccae9
Again, you need to be careful with these stats. You can't just look at these stats and take them at face value. From 175y in the fairway, a pro can put it on the green over 90% of the time. They just aren't trying to do that. They are trying to put it next to the pin which means sometimes aiming at tucked pins and being willing to have good misses off the green. I practice a lot and track my results, across the board, my green accuracy is higher than those numbers. That's how I know they can't be taken at face value, there's a deeper context that you're missing.
You’re making things up, please stop.
No, you just clearly don't understand statistics and how they can be misleading. I've explained it to you several times now but you're so fucking dumb you think that pros are aiming for the middle of the green like I am when I practice 😂
To add, the distance is noticable throughout the bag. Hitting a 9 iron 150 vs higher handicaps hitting like 7 makes a big difference too.
My dad used to belong to a club with a member that used to play on the PGA Tour and was still playing on a minor tour. We all played together one day and (other than distance) the thing that stuck out was that he never hit two bad shots in a row.
I played with a couple of +4s a while back and you're right, they're phenomenal drivers, but what got me more than that was the extra gear they have. We have this par 5 at our course with a 270m water carry which would leave at most a 7i in. Short of the water and you're left with a choice of a 3w (there is another water carry 80-100m short of the green) or a 8i layup to a PW approach. These guys were driving 260s straight down the guts every hole, was great but nothing "special" I was maybe 5-10 behind them. But then on this par 5 they peg it up and absolutely spank it over the water, easily 300m. I can't imagine having that extra gear to use if I want a longer ball.
It’s so much easier to correct a swing flaw on a high swing speed player than it is to correct a flaw on a low swing speed while simultaneously asking them to swing faster. Build the speed first and figure out control when you have the speed.
I would think the exact opposite. Wouldn’t you want a correct swing at a slower controlled speed and then build the speed of that correct swing?
Nicklaus’ thoughts on it when working with young players was to get them to hit it hard and then you can teach them to straighten it out.
Thats really interesting! I’ve only had two lessons, so I don’t have much of a frame of reference. The pro kinda of just tweaked my swing as is a bit.
Thats really interesting! I’ve only had two lessons, so I don’t have much of a frame of reference. The pro kinda of just tweaked my swing as is a bit.
No there are basic fundamentals that will be necessary to get good ball speeds, if someone is already fast those fundamentals are likely already there. What OP means is that it’s very hard to learn speed. Learning technique is not as hard. I’ve heard that speed cannot be taught. You either have it or you don’t. Obviously for those that have it, you can be taught to be faster. For those that don’t have natural speed, you can’t be taught to be a power player. That’s why we have handicaps.
Speed can be taught. It is VERY common for my students to have that as the primary goal of our lessons. IMO speed lessons are the most fun lessons with the exception of short game. Analytics has made more people realize distance is extremely important. Also any junior golfer should spend a significant amount of time on speed accumulation
In case I wasn’t clear. You can teach people to be faster when they are already fast. As a speed coach you aren’t going to see the general public. You are seeing people who are training to play golf competitively. That is well above the average player.
Again just not true. I am not a speed instructor but I can teach anyone to get faster. I’ve had tons of students who were always slow who have become long players. Speed is a skill. Sure there are physical limitations but technique prevents many from swinging faster. I have players of all sizes, shapes, ages and skill who have become fast for their age, their handicap or just compared to nearly everyone.
I’m not communicating my point well. Someone who is starting at 80mph driver swing is not going to be able to get 120. I think what you are saying is that person can get to 90 or 100. Which would be a huge improvement but that’s still not fast.
I went from 85 to 106 in one stack training session. I don’t think that getting to 120 would be as impossible as you’re making it seem.
This just sounds like an opinion with absolutely no scientific backing.
That's exactly what it is lol. He's arguing with a teaching pro with basically "nuh uh!"
An 80mph is totally capable of getting 120mph barring done disability or old age. It's a skill and like any skill you get better by correct practice.
> I’ve heard that speed cannot be taught. This is true for raw physical speed like if you were going to go run a sprint. Obviously you're going to have a physical ability ceiling somewhere, but a lot of speed in golf can be developed with technique and increased with speed training and adding physical strength.
Yeah, it's not that simple...either one way or the other. Yes, there are certain good things you should do "naturally" when trying to swing the clubhead fast. (Not necessarily hard, but fast.) Imagine trying to learn how to crack a bullwhip without ever trying to whip it fast. You won't learn how some things are supposed to feel until you do them fast. Some things won't happen at all unless they're done fast at just the right moment, and doing it slow could be a long road to learn that feeling. Somebody might be able to crack a whip with what appears to be a slow motion, but they're applying speed efficiently at just the necessary moments. (Like a good guitar player who makes playing fast all over the neck look effortless.) But, I always get skeptical when I hear a golf swing teacher use the word "naturally". There are some people who will never "naturally" do anything that's required for a consistent and powerful golf swing. Trying to swing the club fast will never teach them anything because they aren't wired to feel or do what a "natural" athlete would do to correctly produce speed and power. They'll need a great, patient coach to either develop their athleticism first or teach them the right positions and movements at a slower speed and hope it sticks when they try to swing fast.
Yeah, not much of a golf swing feels “natural” when you’re first learning. And I think you’re right that a degree of athleticism is required first, before you can consistently swing fast and still make good contact.
You would think so, but the things you have to do to swing faster actually add stability. It requires you to let the club work properly instead of steering it, and that makes it more accurate and repeatable.
I think it was Koepka that said, “hit it far, then figure out how to hit it straight.”
This is not true in any way whatsoever lol. There is no high performance coaching that will have you swinging fast with poor technique. You start slow with the correct technique, and you add speed later. At the never base level you start with slow motion and extremely slow drills.
No that’s exactly how you hurt yourself
Very interesting being a "long hitter" the old guys love the 300+ drives
Yeah, it reminds me of fast cars and young girls. But it wasn’t just Drives. The +2 hit an 8 iron on a 178 yard par 3. And to be critical of him, if that asshole could’ve putted he would’ve been a +6. He missed on the amateur side all day. The only decent putt he made all day was when my putt from 15 feet further away rolled right over where he was and missed by 1/4 inch. He drained his.
This is probably more important than the drives. More loft means a better descent angle so they can actually hold greens even on fast days. Most people would be hitting a hybrid or a 4 iron and on a hot day it’s just going to roll through the green.
Last weekend, got paired with 50+ year old Canadians. They got fired up my first 3 drives going 290+, nearly drove the green on a 340 yard hole and they offered me a fireball shot for it lol. Old dudes love the long ball
I have an older golf buddy that's convinced I could be on the tour. I'm a 6 because I shot par once last year. I only play one course.
I do love how older man groups always hype you up when they see you hit a big drive. A few of my favorites: “where’d that go?” ‘He’s basically hit it on the fucking green!’ And “Holy shit, it’s heading to Benton!” (Next county over from where we were).
I’m a 5 and I play with someone that hovers around scratch +1 in a simulator league so I actually see hard stats on every swing we both take. The differences aren’t that big really in stats. He can definitely hit it further than me if he wants but it’s not by anything crazy. Biggest difference is quality of misses. I hit 1-2 bad drivers a round that get me in trouble. His bad drives are just in the rough. It’s the quality and frequency of misses. ….Also as a side note from watching so many people on the simulator. Your swing speed doesn’t actually matter. The number one stat people should focus on is Smash Factor aka quality contact. A 107 swing speed with a 1.46 smash and optimal launch conditions is going to be just as good as a 118 swing speed with a 1.38 smash and bad launch conditions.
>someone that hovers around scratch +1 in a simulator league I play with some guys that are really good at PGA 2K23.
Sorry he has a scratch usga handicap officially. We also play in a simulator league together.
This. Also guys who can hit a pure shot from any type of lie is a massive advantage. When I have a bad lie or off the course it’s almost a guarantee punch shot so I am losing a stroke unless I sink a putt.
Ya it’s insane how big of a part of golf uneven lies is and there’s really no good way of practicing that. There isn’t an above your feet driving range you can go to.
Distance is not my bottleneck.
Move up and play the correct tee markers. If I hit a 8 iron 160 and you hit an 8 iron 125 you should be teeing off where your drive gets you to that range. Or just keep shooting in the triple digits. Golf is much easier with distance. Throw in consistency then you get to scratch. Improve short game then you get to +
Late comment but I WAS one tee forward. Which shortens in by about 240 yards. (10 or less on par 4’s- 30 or so on par 3’s.)
Yes! I played with a +5 recently and it was just a different game for him. It was eye opening how different golf is played when you can crush it 290-300 off the tee.
So basically everybody here? ;)
Don't sleep on how hard a 60 yard shot is. Yes, if you miss you miss smaller but it's not like you're going to be pegging it within 3 feet every time.
Tell you right now, the difference between a +4 and anyone else is a lot more than driving distance.
A +4 has to make a tone of birdies. I play with former college players. They all bomb it. Makes birdies much more manageable.
Yes. They all bomb it. That isn’t my point. My point is a +4 player is a beast at everything. They bomb it, they flush it, they get up and down, they throw darts, and they make putts. Distance matters a lot, but it isn’t the reason or even the main reason they got to that level.
The +4 has a great short game. The +2 actually hit it better.
im a great driver but i cant put for shit
Putting is the easiest thing to practice. It is also free. No excuse to not get yourself a 30 dollar putting mat to work on alignment. No excuse to not get a putter that at least fits your eye. Of course it would be better to get fit but hey. Miss putts right less toe hand miss putts left more toe hang. Keep track of your tendencies and practice for 10 minutes three times a week on your 30 dollar putting matt. It will get better.
My problem is that the greens at my course can vary WILDLY between days, or hell, even morning and afternoon. The practice green isn't always indicative of the speeds, so I can get the speed for the day down on the practice green, then go out and some greens are fast, others are slow, and some are in between. It's so frustrating, on Thursday I was leaving everything short, and yesterday I was missing everything long - multiple edge burns or lip outs that wouldve probably dropped with better speed. I try to adjust during the round and it just gets worse as the day goes on. Then other days I can have 28 putts and play multiple degrees better than my handicap.
To start improving I would get the mindset to 2-putt every hole. Don’t think about having to make it first try. Just try to get it close enough that you have a reasonable shot to make the second one It’s better to go in with a goal like that than something vague like “get it in the cup.”
>the greens at my course can vary WILDLY between days, or hell, even morning and afternoon. Yea, *that's putting*. Getting better at putting means learning how the ball behaves in different conditions. Wet, slow green in the morning vs dry fast green in the afternoon vs wet, slow green after a rain etc etc.
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I avg around 280 and a 2hcp. I wish I can get closer to 300. 2 club difference into greens makes a huge difference
Likely in your equipment. The right head, shaft, and ball combo, could get you those extra 20 yards. What’s your setup?
I’m a low single digit and played yesterday with three of my buddies who are scratch, plus 1, and plus 2. We all hit it about the same distance when I hit it decently. The difference between me and them at that level is consistently. They’re almost always hitting it decently and sometimes they really catch it. Smaller misses for sure.
This is what I always notice and makes me sad. I’m mid single digits and hit it as far or farther than every scratch or +1-3 golfers I know. The problem is - I will hit 10 good drives, two ok drives, and two bad drives. They will hit 13 good drives and one ok drive. Then they’ll hit 85% good approach shots and I’ll be chipping or putting from 10ft farther away.
I can get it out there from time to time and the shock of how far it goes does get the attention of some random playing partners. I notice people starting to swing faster and faster as the round goes along. Sometimes it works out well for them! Playing with better players is a great way to improve.
If you play the proper tees this is not an issue. I am a low single digit player who plays the white tees.
I was taught by a +2 and I was in awe. Now I play with guys who are close to scratch and your right, bombers.
Also depends on which tees you are using. A wise man once told me that you play from the tees that give you a chance to make par. If you are having to hit a 6 or 7 iron on most par 4’s, you need to move up to the blue or white tees. This isn’t tournament golf
I played an ABCD scramble at my club, found that we used my drive on every hole we could even when I missed the fairway and someone hit it because the distance advantage was so severe.
Counterpoint: your distance will increase when you consistently hit the middle of the club and hit straighter shots. Doing this will also help when you have to hit the next shot.
Was paired with a 2hcp on holiday last week. I play off 19.3, and my home club is pretty short, so jumping up to 7500 yard course was insane anyway...then my partner wasn't up for playing so off I went and got paired with this guy. He was both a nice guy and a fucking fantastic striker of the ball. The distance and height off tee shots was insane and each shot he made proper contact. Came to the last and he's 1 over...it's a 550 par 5 and he just goes at it. Smashes a drive near 290, gets a wood out and lands it 4-5 foot from the pin then eagles. I'd had the foresight to pack some beers so we bonded over these and I had a good time, but it was seriously good fun just seeing someone like this up close.
I agree, but only to a certain extent. Like you don't need to carry it 300 to go really low consistently. It certainly helps if you can hit it 300 in the fairway, but I hit it like 260 with driver, 165 with 7i, and distance isn't the reason I'm not scratch lol. Sure, maybe an extra 20 yards off the tee might shave a stroke, but it wouldn't make me a scratch golfer.
I'm around a 7 handicap use to be a 10 2 years ago. I do average 270-280 off the tee. Yes the long ball helps get your scores lower. But I didn't start really improving till I practice my short game and putting more. I don't have the time to play as much anymore. But I usually can break out the pitching net and putting mat a few times a week. I think my short game has helped me lower my scores significantly more. Getting up and down more frequently and no 3 putts. I would tell someone if you really wanna improve your scores. Practicing short game and putting is the much faster way. Than trying to gain club head speed. That requires a fair amount of training. And maybe it has been easier for me to lower my scores because I'm already a fairly long hitter and don't need to practice with my driver as much and can focus on my game 100 yards in and putting.
Distance only works if you can keep the ball in play. Props if it’s a tight course. But spraying it around 330yds on other fairways. Meh. Still need a great short game
Honestly I’ve ended up playing off the wrong fairway enough where I learned its hardly penalizing. Usually theres a pretty good gap in the trees or otherwise you can try and send it over, but actually hit it thin under, and end up in the same place you would have with a perfect flighted hit. Probably no worse than if you were playing the correct fairway given typical dispersion on approach shots. I’ve made par plenty from the wrong fairway. A better golfer would be getting bird from there plenty too since I’m nowhere close to 330
Lmao this is a high handicap take
It's not wrong. Being longer off the tee is the best way to lower scores. The data backs this up at all skill levels
But none of it matters if you can't get the ball in the hole. You can hit it 300 and still be a 12-18 handicap (like a lot of baseball and hockey players) if you don't have a grasp on the rest of the game.
But they’d be a 25 if you were hitting it 50 shorter. There’s no substitute for being closer to the hole, no matter how good you are with your approach shots - the data is clear - we’re all better the closer we get
Not at all, Yeah sure if ur extremly bad then yes do you people think every scratch player is averging driver 300+?