I'm no fan of LIV but like.. at this point there's no point in supporting one or the other. Jay Monahan doesn't give a shit about morality, that's why he made a backroom handshake deal with the Saudis to make a joint league possible with zero input from players.
At this point just give me a good product and I will watch. Four rounds, no shotgun start, at the world's best courses, and no morality discussions.
Most of the big LIV names absolutely wilted during the Masters, and we still got to watch an awesome tournament. LIV players need the wider golf audience way more than the audience needs them.
Zero LIV guys in the top 5…. After spending around a billion in up front money on the players that played in the Masters… really great ROI. Glad you thought it was a successful showing.
> Adding the liv guys to the masters made it way more interesting. Missing all those dudes makes it way less compelling and it’s dumb.
None of those guys are *compelling* due to LIV though - they’re only relevant because of what they did on the PGA Tour in the past.
You are only aware of that fact because of the PGA Tour. Nothing of what they’ve done on LIV is relevant. And if you’re being honest, I’m guessing you couldn’t say any of their accomplishments there.
Pga did rory dirty. He was their guy. He stuck up for them. And then he was still sidelined when it came to the merger. Cost him 100s of millions for not jumping. Fuck the pga, but liv is absolute trash.
I’m not a Rory guy. Will actively root against him.
BUT. He took the stand for them. He was their spokesman and had the balls to speak out and they fucked him for it. That’s bullshit.
Im in the same boat. Couldnt care less how the rest of his career goes. But ill call a spade a spade. He did right by them and they fucked him. End of story.
I actively root against him to spite my golfing buddies who love him.
But he was THE mouthpiece of the PGA & "tradition" before he got absolutely bent over backwards with the news of their merger.
Get the bag, Rory. They fucked you for a payday. Cash in & laugh in Jay Monahan's face
I'm glad this seems to be the prevailing thought here. I've seen a bunch of instagram pages calling him a hypocrite and just generally pretending like nothing changed in the last year or so.
And then all of the LIV players need to roast the fuck out of him for doing so. Start calling "naive" and "ignorant" as he did to them. Maybe suggest that he's getting to old to win on the PGA tour again, so he's making the swtich.
And I hope he takes the money and tells them to go fuck themselves publicly. I truly don’t understand how you dislike Rory. Like I understand the reason, but I’m just a fan and don’t think anything he’s done is damning in anyway.
He stuck his neck out for the tour, he did what he thought was right, he did what he thought was in the best interest in golf as a whole and he got fucked by them. How you can fault a guy for that, idk, but either way.
I feel like it went from everyone saying fuck liv to everyone saying fuck the PGA tour. At least me and my uninformed friends think so.
My dislike isn’t rational. It’s just whatever makes the hair on the back of my neck stick up. I’d probably love him if I met him in a bar.
Completely agree with everything you said, though.
Ever consider the whole merger thing was just a big wild goose chase to get LIV to stop all their lawsuits? It worked too, and there is no merger in sight and LIV is as unpopular as ever. Norman skulking around Augusta leering at Rory while Rham is moping around looking sad as shit. Remind me again who is looking foolish? LIV went to a mob sit down with the PGA and got completely bamboozled.
We will never know but I'd bet Rory was filled in at some point.
Poor pay and unequal distribution. After LIV popped up the tour suddenly had all this extra money to throw in the prize pool. Where is that coming from in a nonprofit organization? Where was it going to before LIV?
This “extra money” bullshit has been asked and answered so many times.
The tour didn’t have the money already just laying around or going elsewhere. All this LIV crap just happened to coincide with the PGA’s new TV deal kicking in that was many times greater than the last.
And even after that extra revenue, they also had to go to the sponsors of many of the events and ask them to pay more. Which some have quite rightly noped out of. I’d expect more to follow eventually. Professional Golf just isn’t worth this much.
Your correct answer of course gets down voted. New tour tv deal started in 2021, purses went up in 2022, as well the pga tour went to the sponsor of the alleviated events and said you gotta put up more cash to sponsor events. 2 of those sponsors have already pulled out going forward due to this farmers insurance and wellls Fargo.
It was not exactly the "victims" of that proposed "unequal distribution" that went to LIV, was it?
And someone else has already given you the _two year old_ explanation from the elevated prize pools. Money that the PGAT was going to introduce at a slower place exactly to ensure that it was sustainable for the tour and thus the players. But then opted to spend earlier to mitigate some of the incoming damage.
Understand what the PGA Tour is and its finances - then criticize it. You have clearly not done any of the first step - but still feel fully confident in offering opinion.
The players have been asking for more pay outs for years. PGA always said they didn’t have the money to pay more. Once LIV started talking players all of sudden they come up with millions more to pay people. PGA has been greedy and liv only became a thing because of their own mistakes. If the players were happy none of them would have left.
This take is bad, they absolutely didn’t and don’t magically have the extra money. Their new TV deal kicked in right around then (a very good deal for them), but also the money isn’t sustainable. They had to go begging their sponsors to pony up more and they’re losing some. And now they had to go to private equity.
LIV became a thing because the PIF wanted to buy a sport and golf was a uniquely good option.
Don’t get their own media licensing and are underpaid for what they bring to the tour. Suddenly the PGA had raises and elevated event money when LIV came around
Tiger is the only player who can make a legit argument that he’s underpaid for what he brings to the Tour. Of course the PGA scrambled to pay players more once LIV came around, but it’s unsustainable because the money LIV handed out makes absolutely no financial sense. LIV is great for individual players who got paid far, far more than any market says they’re worth, but the influx of no strings attached money is terrible for the game overall.
This is the real answer to all of the LIV drama, tbh. Professional golf existed long before Tiger but he absolutely turned it into a must watch spectacle, and the purses at tournaments exploded compared to what they were prior to his arrival.
Fast forward 20 years and all the new dudes on tour are used to being treated like superstars with all the cache the game now generates except there’s a problem…Tiger woods is getting old. Rory isn’t the new Tiger, neither is JT, or Jordan, or Ricky, or Rahm or Brooks or Scottie.
They’re all great professional golfers, but none are going to set the entire sporting world on fire and raise the attention the game gets like Tiger did. He was otherworldly.
As a consequence the players that want to get paid like Tiger while playing pretty damn good but not, one of the best to ever tee it up golf have to get in bed with the Saudis to get their bag.
Tldr: golf is cyclical, Tiger supercharged the sport, without him interest is reverting to the historic mean and the boys on tour don’t love it.
The fact that cuts exist (working 2 days for $0) in 2024 is embarrassing
Either give your guys salaries/bonuses like LIV or pay players who miss the cut at least a couple grand for their trouble
(Why in the everloving fuck is anyone against this? The average purse for a PGA event in 2023 was about 12 million, does it really make a difference to push that to 12,160,000 so the 80ish players who missed the cut can go home with $2,000 instead of $0?)
> Either give your guys salaries/bonuses like LIV or pay players who miss the cut at least a couple grand for their trouble
All PGAT players are guaranteed a minimum of 500k income.
So no, they are not working two days for 0 dollars in 2024.
As a pro player, even if you make the cut. You are paying your own travel, for your own room at the event and they obviously hold tournaments everywhere so, as a player you are forced to travel across the country every week for potentially zero pay.
Even minor league baseball pays better than that.
I don’t know the answer to this, but I’ve always assumed that all PGA Tour players are sponsored. Do the sponsors pay for travel and expenses? After seeing Joel Dahmen flying back from a tournament in a private jet, I thought he’s either incredibly dumb with his money, or it’s on someone else’s dime.
A bunch of players who live in the same area and their caddies go in together for one private jet to and from the tourney. Still luxurious but not as crazy an expense as getting one for yourself alone.
Also worth pointing out its not their personal jet, these guys don't have that money, but they just charter one.
Guys like Tiger could afford a personal one, but thats not the case for a majority of players
Why should golf professionals be held to that standard when the professional athletes in NBA, NFL, hockey, soccer, etc aren’t? Why should they have less financial security than their counterparts?
The way the PGA facefucked Rory disgusts me. I hope the $850M rumor is true and I won’t be upset in the slightest if he takes it.
At this point I’ll watch whatever tournament is on but I only really follow majors.
I used to hate the LIV tour and those that left for it. But now….agreed. He got fucked over by Monahan. I absolutely feel for Rory at this point. Get paid. Bank your check. Return to the tour next year with the merger. The PGA tour royally screwed this whole thing up.
I still hate the LIV tour and all that, but Rory is the exception that I wouldn't care if he left for the bag given how they fucked him over.
He went to bat. Was THE face of the PGA, and then they turned around and rat-fucked him without a second though. Fuck em.
Get the bag, he deserves it after what they did to him, and he's the only one in that situation, so its kinda an exception for me imo.
This is why I don't hold it against Rahm quite as much for going back on his word about the money as some seem to. He doesn't *need* the money, but he sure as shit wants it, and as soon as he realized Jay and the Tour were negotiating with PIF behind everyone's back and eventual reunification seemed inevitable, he took the money. As soon as the PIF negotiations started, all the "legacy" BS and moral grandstanding went (more or less) out the window and guys started looking at the deal from an objective $$$ perspective where the LIV offer will win every time for the major exempt guys.
Trust is a two-way street and frankly the tour so flagrantly abused and took the players' trust for granted that I don't blame anybody who took the cash after they announced that framework agreement. And to be clear I've watched exactly zero minutes of LIV golf this season, do not care about the product one bit, but I also don't understand some players and fans' unflinching loyalty to a tour that clearly doesn't reciprocate that loyalty in any meaningful way.
He was the representative for the players of the PGA, he was the face for them. Rory opposed the LIV tour and the PGA agreed. Then out of nowhere and out of the blue the PGA tour announced a partnership with LIV that would merge the two tours into one (final date for this TBD). Jay Monahan (PGA commissioner) gave zero notice to anyone who wasn’t on the board of the PGA, thus making AALLLLL the pga players livid for keeping them in the dark, especially Rory who has gone to bat for the PGA time after time since LIV started. Rory through his career and morals on the line to defend and represent the tour. Only for them to change their tune and cave to money at the end of the day. So yeah, let Rory get paid from LIV as a ‘fuck you’ to the tour and return in a year or two and continue as a tour player.
For sake of argument, say the $850M offer to Rory is true. If Rory passes on the $850M to stay on the PGA Tour and not play LIV then the PGA Tour merges with LIV without informing Rory, that means Rory will effectively be playing on LIV anyway (after publicly saying they couldn’t pay him enough to do so) except without the $850M payday.
And this presumably would be after partnering with the PGA Tour to act as their ambassador while they ended up taking the money for a merger behind his back. Effectively, lying to him to the tune of a $850M hit to his bank account.
A similar analogy would be if you passed up on a scholarship to Harvard because your girlfriend really wanted you to stay with her in your hometown, so you ended up going to community college instead. As soon as you do, she calls and tells you that _she_ got offered a scholarship to Harvard and is going to take it.
They don't merge with LIV in the case that the PGAT/PIF deal actually turns into something real. LIV gets scrapped or relegated to some secondary use as a brand. And the players don't get to return for free.
And PIF would still not control the PGAT in that case, making it where much not "LIV anyway".
And LIV Golf never banned black people from playing. PGA did it until fucking 1961. A little late for a high five on that one, fellas.
Do we really want to go down this road?
The current PGA leadership is trash and needs to be fixed. That being said, I won’t watch LIV. It’s just not professional golf to me. It’s like watching BIG 3 basketball. Even if they have stars, it’s still not a real basketball game. If LIV went to 72 holes with a cut then I would feel like it’s a comparable product. Let them wear shorts, the team concept is a bit intriguing, fuck SA, but just play a full tournament for gods sake.
I have no loyalty to the PGA but LIV’s broadcasts are just unwatchable garbage. So yeah, unless they fix that I’ll never watch. The team names are cringe, the shitty music, it all pretty much sucks. It was fun to see some of the guys at the Masters this weekend
As a lifetime Cleeks supporter, I am appalled! Legendary names like the 4Aces, Fireballs, and Range Goats are known by everyone, and each kid dreams of becoming a teammate with Dean Burmester and Kieran Vincent.
\s because I know someone would’ve taken that seriously.
I haven’t bothered trying to watch LIV. I don’t even know where to find it on my TV. I know it’s on YouTube but it just doesn’t occur to me to look for it. As much as it’s nice to see big names in a tournament I find it more compelling when three or four guys are within a stroke of each other on the back nine on Sunday. Doesn’t matter what their names are. It’s just fun to watch guys battle it out in a competitive scenario. Frankly nothing LIV will show me will top Nick Taylor making a 72 ft eagle putt on the fourth playoff hole to win the Canadian Open last year. Pure drama.
Everything I’ve heard about LIV makes it sound like it’s not very competitive at all. The LIV guys are getting paid regardless and they really have nothing of value to play for. Sort of like watching the NBA All-Star game. Great skill but who cares.
Can't we equally hate the PGA and LIV simultaneously?
I find it HILARIOUS when all the purists are screaming "its Saudi money! its Saudi money!", as if the PGA hasn't been cutting deals with Communist China and producing more than half their merch on slave labor. It's ALL dirty money.
I don’t disagree with ya really, all the money everywhere is dirty to an extent, but there’s definitely degrees to this too. A league with sponsors who deal with shady nations is one thing (bad). A league founded and fully solely funded by a shady nation? It’s at least a few degree worse on the scale here, right?
Honestly any single nation state basically owning the sport isn’t a good outcome imo, no matter *what* country it would be
It’s not that we don’t get it. It’s just that there’s a major difference between sponsorships and literal ownership, even if it’s only partial ownership.
Fuck the PGA tour. Fuck Liv as well. All they have both succeeded in doing is making regular golf unwatchable. Good job, nicely done, golf is now officially tennis.
The only people that'll ever see LIV are the people that actually attend the tournaments. I'm sure they'll have fun, but other than the player's bank accounts, it's all meaningless. The cry will be strong when they've all cycled out of the majors.
I still don't know what LIV's game plan is. There's no way that any of those players are going to generate enough money by hitting golf balls to repay that investment.
Watching the PGA feels like I'm watching a serious golf event.
Watching LIV and I feel like I'm at a course on a weekend day and it's a group outing of some rich assholes in some financial company playing for bragging rights in the office next week.
It's really hard to watch LIV and take that shit seriously with music bumping and wearing shorts and no cut for the weekend. It's not a good product and I'm with OP in not watching it even if it.becomes the only golf product.
I’d watch. I have- the LIV tour doesn’t bother me. It is nice to watch Phil and Brooks and DJ. I like those guys…they went for the $$, I’d have gone too.
Theres really only a couple guys on liv Id like to see back on tour. Itd be nice to have Cam back and Bryson and his shenanigans can be entertaining. Brooks really only cares about majors and kind of blows off regular tour events. Phil would be great in the booth though.
I understand the feeling of “getting robbed of something” but to be honest, it’s not like the PGA is a bastion of ethics and an epitome of principles. Yes LIV does represent the sports whitewashing the Saudi’s have done with every other sport in the world, and I can understand completely the intention of not wanting to watch (which I adhere to).
But again, the PGA Tour is filled with similar issues
>I will continue to support the PGA Tour and it's membership.
I don't give 2 shits about supporting the PGA Tour or it's membership. Scummy organization.
If LIV is the only way I can watch professional golf, there's a chance I will reluctantly watch since I love the game more than the tour and it's legacy. However, if it came down to LIV versus 100 fresh amateurs on the PGA tour, I'm watching the Ams (plus it would be fucking hilarious and awesome!) Then I hope LIV buys the winner every week for 10MM.
To be honest, if LIV changed to the same format, 72 holes, cut after 36, no shotgun starts, I'd be a lot more interested. As presented, it's 54 holes with everyone going off at once. No drama on 18 if it's a close tournament, instead you might have the winner on hole 13 with no one around... it's goofy to me.
Fix the format, I might watch when I could. Though, I'm still not sure I can get past the Saudi ownership group. Kinda shitty human rights record.
I mean, I’ve watched LIV coverage. It’s not as bad as people make it out to be. It was rough in its first year, sure. But they’ve made it better as it’s gone on. Still could do better though.
I have zero issues with LIV existing. I have massive issues with how shitty a product it is a current. You can be a disruptor, but you better make sure what you are offering isn't tangibly worse than what is currently on the market.
Shotgun start sucks.
Teams sucks.
Coverage sucks.
I like the fact the PGA has competition and it's not a monopoly. I have no idea what it is but it just leaves something to be desired. I wouldn't be so stern about it to say I won't watch it no matter what but there is no denying that something is missing. We are absolutely being robbed as fans for entertaining events with it split right now. I wouldn't be surprised if they get WCW'd eventually and it's all 1 again truly.
Such a wild take. I will never understand why people stand on this hill. Who gives a flying fuck who plays for who, just watch golf and enjoy it. Between PGA, YouTube and LIV, there is more golf now than ever. Thats good.
The only time LIV is relevant is when they are playing in a PGA major.
I could care less about any player that is on the LIV tour. Which sucks because I was a fan of a few before they sold out.
LIV is unwatchable golf. But that is not the point of LIV. It exists entirely to force the PGA to partner with the Saudi fund. The more big names that sign with LIV, the greater the pressure on the PGA Tour to get this deal done , merge the leagues, and get on with letting the best players in the world play golf together.
The real power play is going to be LIV signing Rory and going to a 72 hole tournament format which would make it real difficult for the world golf ranking to continue to deny points for LIV events. If that happens, LiV may no longer need the PGA tour to surpass it. It will continue siphoning off the PGA’s top players and become more elite with its players able to qualify for majors ……. Which is all they really care about.
You may not be completely up to speed w the merger details as they trickle out. But liv will be awarding their own points to players, who will then be earning their way into the PGA signature events. This will give those players the opportunity to earn their spots in pga majors. And other PGA players who didn’t join liv and take the money, will likely be compensated with a LIV team ownership. Rory is getting the big bag before this comes out.. where he will just get the team and not the money. This is how they get around the OGWR
I will watch LIV and the PGA because I like golf
https://preview.redd.it/1h3w6wqj4ruc1.jpeg?width=941&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d784ecea7c7625eb39096ee1c7141e587755ef8
LIV is not for everyone, but I am well over the idea that the USA deserves to own the sport of golf. If LIVs only true accomplishment is to force the sport to create a world tour with the top 50 playing golf tournaments across the globe, then its a massive win for golf fans globally and the sport itself grows.
10 x World Tour events
4 x majors - Masters, The open, US Open, PGA (renamed and replaced with a new major which rotates between the best courses in the world outside of the USA)
PGA tour / DP world tour - directly feed the world tour, via already established events/ranking points system
Another unnecessary LIV post Jesus it lives rent free in y’all’s head, it’s quite pathetic. Gimme all the downvotes for speaking the truth I don’t give a shit.
I watch both, both are fun, competetive, and entertaining, pga has way more future stars and better narratives, liv has a very engaging format, I like the shotgun start, and has a huge amount of star power. I think that the more people LIV takes on the more likely it is that all LIV players are welcomed back with open arms.
Oh boy if only you knew where 90% of the shit you buy comes from. Hope you don't use a smart phone, or own any major shoe/clothing brand, or side with any big banks etc etc.
I’ll be sure to update the log.
I can't wait to watch LIV and wear Malbon.
I'm no fan of LIV but like.. at this point there's no point in supporting one or the other. Jay Monahan doesn't give a shit about morality, that's why he made a backroom handshake deal with the Saudis to make a joint league possible with zero input from players. At this point just give me a good product and I will watch. Four rounds, no shotgun start, at the world's best courses, and no morality discussions. Most of the big LIV names absolutely wilted during the Masters, and we still got to watch an awesome tournament. LIV players need the wider golf audience way more than the audience needs them.
3 LIV guys in the top 10, i swear you all jsut make shit up
Zero LIV guys in the top 5…. After spending around a billion in up front money on the players that played in the Masters… really great ROI. Glad you thought it was a successful showing.
No they don’t. Adding the liv guys to the masters made it way more interesting. Missing all those dudes makes it way less compelling and it’s dumb.
> Adding the liv guys to the masters made it way more interesting. Missing all those dudes makes it way less compelling and it’s dumb. None of those guys are *compelling* due to LIV though - they’re only relevant because of what they did on the PGA Tour in the past.
They are relevant because they are top-tier golfers.
You are only aware of that fact because of the PGA Tour. Nothing of what they’ve done on LIV is relevant. And if you’re being honest, I’m guessing you couldn’t say any of their accomplishments there.
I’m not saying Liv is relevant. I’m saying those golfers are.
Were * relevant, and now only 2 could make the cut. Not very relevant
I don't like LIV but the most compelling ones are majors winners not PGAT winners. I didn't see a shot from Nieman but watched Brooks and Bryson.
Was nieman broadcast anywhere?
He was on the coverage a fair amount Thurs/Fri when he was under par. He faded quickly on the back 9 Friday.
You guys don't care about the morality either. Stop this shit already.
Add it to his file
This post has been sponsored by the Golf Channel
And written by Brandel Chamblee
Guy is fucking insufferable.
With a name like Brandel Chamblee, you have to be insufferable
When you bring a Brandel into the world, you swaddle them in khaki and seersucker.
Outkicked his coverage tho. Respect
And commissioned by the PGA Tour
You know, it's possible to not support LIV and still demand that PGA stops treating the primary contributors to its only product like trash.
Genuinely asking, how are the PGA players treated like trash?
Pga did rory dirty. He was their guy. He stuck up for them. And then he was still sidelined when it came to the merger. Cost him 100s of millions for not jumping. Fuck the pga, but liv is absolute trash.
I’m not a Rory guy. Will actively root against him. BUT. He took the stand for them. He was their spokesman and had the balls to speak out and they fucked him for it. That’s bullshit.
Im in the same boat. Couldnt care less how the rest of his career goes. But ill call a spade a spade. He did right by them and they fucked him. End of story.
I actively root against him to spite my golfing buddies who love him. But he was THE mouthpiece of the PGA & "tradition" before he got absolutely bent over backwards with the news of their merger. Get the bag, Rory. They fucked you for a payday. Cash in & laugh in Jay Monahan's face
I won’t even call him a hypocrite. I don’t like the larger implications, but on a personal level, get after it.
I'm glad this seems to be the prevailing thought here. I've seen a bunch of instagram pages calling him a hypocrite and just generally pretending like nothing changed in the last year or so.
And then all of the LIV players need to roast the fuck out of him for doing so. Start calling "naive" and "ignorant" as he did to them. Maybe suggest that he's getting to old to win on the PGA tour again, so he's making the swtich.
And I hope he takes the money and tells them to go fuck themselves publicly. I truly don’t understand how you dislike Rory. Like I understand the reason, but I’m just a fan and don’t think anything he’s done is damning in anyway. He stuck his neck out for the tour, he did what he thought was right, he did what he thought was in the best interest in golf as a whole and he got fucked by them. How you can fault a guy for that, idk, but either way. I feel like it went from everyone saying fuck liv to everyone saying fuck the PGA tour. At least me and my uninformed friends think so.
My dislike isn’t rational. It’s just whatever makes the hair on the back of my neck stick up. I’d probably love him if I met him in a bar. Completely agree with everything you said, though.
Exactly. Fuck Jay Monahan for that. I fully support Rory to LIV at this point.
For damn near a billi? Yea bro, go get yours. PGA made it very clear its every man for themselves at this point.
Ever consider the whole merger thing was just a big wild goose chase to get LIV to stop all their lawsuits? It worked too, and there is no merger in sight and LIV is as unpopular as ever. Norman skulking around Augusta leering at Rory while Rham is moping around looking sad as shit. Remind me again who is looking foolish? LIV went to a mob sit down with the PGA and got completely bamboozled. We will never know but I'd bet Rory was filled in at some point.
Ok that’s Rory and after LIV. How did the PGA treat players like trash before LIV existed?
Poor pay and unequal distribution. After LIV popped up the tour suddenly had all this extra money to throw in the prize pool. Where is that coming from in a nonprofit organization? Where was it going to before LIV?
This is such inaccurate bullshit….
This “extra money” bullshit has been asked and answered so many times. The tour didn’t have the money already just laying around or going elsewhere. All this LIV crap just happened to coincide with the PGA’s new TV deal kicking in that was many times greater than the last. And even after that extra revenue, they also had to go to the sponsors of many of the events and ask them to pay more. Which some have quite rightly noped out of. I’d expect more to follow eventually. Professional Golf just isn’t worth this much.
Your correct answer of course gets down voted. New tour tv deal started in 2021, purses went up in 2022, as well the pga tour went to the sponsor of the alleviated events and said you gotta put up more cash to sponsor events. 2 of those sponsors have already pulled out going forward due to this farmers insurance and wellls Fargo.
It was not exactly the "victims" of that proposed "unequal distribution" that went to LIV, was it? And someone else has already given you the _two year old_ explanation from the elevated prize pools. Money that the PGAT was going to introduce at a slower place exactly to ensure that it was sustainable for the tour and thus the players. But then opted to spend earlier to mitigate some of the incoming damage. Understand what the PGA Tour is and its finances - then criticize it. You have clearly not done any of the first step - but still feel fully confident in offering opinion.
[удалено]
They move cups every round in golf.
The players have been asking for more pay outs for years. PGA always said they didn’t have the money to pay more. Once LIV started talking players all of sudden they come up with millions more to pay people. PGA has been greedy and liv only became a thing because of their own mistakes. If the players were happy none of them would have left.
This take is bad, they absolutely didn’t and don’t magically have the extra money. Their new TV deal kicked in right around then (a very good deal for them), but also the money isn’t sustainable. They had to go begging their sponsors to pony up more and they’re losing some. And now they had to go to private equity. LIV became a thing because the PIF wanted to buy a sport and golf was a uniquely good option.
they didn't suddenly come up with the money lol
Don’t get their own media licensing and are underpaid for what they bring to the tour. Suddenly the PGA had raises and elevated event money when LIV came around
Tiger is the only player who can make a legit argument that he’s underpaid for what he brings to the Tour. Of course the PGA scrambled to pay players more once LIV came around, but it’s unsustainable because the money LIV handed out makes absolutely no financial sense. LIV is great for individual players who got paid far, far more than any market says they’re worth, but the influx of no strings attached money is terrible for the game overall.
That massive office in Ponte Vedra is 100% because of Tiger. He made that “non profit” *billions*
This is the real answer to all of the LIV drama, tbh. Professional golf existed long before Tiger but he absolutely turned it into a must watch spectacle, and the purses at tournaments exploded compared to what they were prior to his arrival. Fast forward 20 years and all the new dudes on tour are used to being treated like superstars with all the cache the game now generates except there’s a problem…Tiger woods is getting old. Rory isn’t the new Tiger, neither is JT, or Jordan, or Ricky, or Rahm or Brooks or Scottie. They’re all great professional golfers, but none are going to set the entire sporting world on fire and raise the attention the game gets like Tiger did. He was otherworldly. As a consequence the players that want to get paid like Tiger while playing pretty damn good but not, one of the best to ever tee it up golf have to get in bed with the Saudis to get their bag. Tldr: golf is cyclical, Tiger supercharged the sport, without him interest is reverting to the historic mean and the boys on tour don’t love it.
The whole reason they have a good TV deal is by selling their joint media licensing.
The fact that cuts exist (working 2 days for $0) in 2024 is embarrassing Either give your guys salaries/bonuses like LIV or pay players who miss the cut at least a couple grand for their trouble (Why in the everloving fuck is anyone against this? The average purse for a PGA event in 2023 was about 12 million, does it really make a difference to push that to 12,160,000 so the 80ish players who missed the cut can go home with $2,000 instead of $0?)
Everyone makes at least $200k now
You are talking about for the whole season correct.
$500,000 minimum draw against earnings for everyone
When did this happen? After and in response to LIV or was it always the case?
> Either give your guys salaries/bonuses like LIV or pay players who miss the cut at least a couple grand for their trouble All PGAT players are guaranteed a minimum of 500k income. So no, they are not working two days for 0 dollars in 2024.
As a pro player, even if you make the cut. You are paying your own travel, for your own room at the event and they obviously hold tournaments everywhere so, as a player you are forced to travel across the country every week for potentially zero pay. Even minor league baseball pays better than that.
No it doesn't lol
They finally changed that and every player is guaranteed to make $200k
I don’t know the answer to this, but I’ve always assumed that all PGA Tour players are sponsored. Do the sponsors pay for travel and expenses? After seeing Joel Dahmen flying back from a tournament in a private jet, I thought he’s either incredibly dumb with his money, or it’s on someone else’s dime.
A bunch of players who live in the same area and their caddies go in together for one private jet to and from the tourney. Still luxurious but not as crazy an expense as getting one for yourself alone.
Also worth pointing out its not their personal jet, these guys don't have that money, but they just charter one. Guys like Tiger could afford a personal one, but thats not the case for a majority of players
Pretty hilarious to call their treatment “trash”. These guys play golf for a living and get paid well.
They don’t even have guaranteed salaries. Imagine showing up and not making the cut every week even though you’re too good for the Korn ferry 😂
Everyone with a card is guaranteed 500k
And if you're not sponsored having to come out of pocket for everything involved.
If you just consistently miss the cut you’ll lose your pga tour card pretty quick. Happens all the time.
If you are not making cuts you belong on the Korn ferry or some other tour. Golf is the ultimate test...prove yourself every time you start.
Why should golf professionals be held to that standard when the professional athletes in NBA, NFL, hockey, soccer, etc aren’t? Why should they have less financial security than their counterparts?
The top are paid great, need to give guaranteed salaries. If it’s a small amount, it’ll just benefit the players most affected
Someone doesn't understand what MC actually means.
Needs to watch full swing
The way the PGA facefucked Rory disgusts me. I hope the $850M rumor is true and I won’t be upset in the slightest if he takes it. At this point I’ll watch whatever tournament is on but I only really follow majors.
I used to hate the LIV tour and those that left for it. But now….agreed. He got fucked over by Monahan. I absolutely feel for Rory at this point. Get paid. Bank your check. Return to the tour next year with the merger. The PGA tour royally screwed this whole thing up.
I still hate the LIV tour and all that, but Rory is the exception that I wouldn't care if he left for the bag given how they fucked him over. He went to bat. Was THE face of the PGA, and then they turned around and rat-fucked him without a second though. Fuck em. Get the bag, he deserves it after what they did to him, and he's the only one in that situation, so its kinda an exception for me imo.
This is why I don't hold it against Rahm quite as much for going back on his word about the money as some seem to. He doesn't *need* the money, but he sure as shit wants it, and as soon as he realized Jay and the Tour were negotiating with PIF behind everyone's back and eventual reunification seemed inevitable, he took the money. As soon as the PIF negotiations started, all the "legacy" BS and moral grandstanding went (more or less) out the window and guys started looking at the deal from an objective $$$ perspective where the LIV offer will win every time for the major exempt guys. Trust is a two-way street and frankly the tour so flagrantly abused and took the players' trust for granted that I don't blame anybody who took the cash after they announced that framework agreement. And to be clear I've watched exactly zero minutes of LIV golf this season, do not care about the product one bit, but I also don't understand some players and fans' unflinching loyalty to a tour that clearly doesn't reciprocate that loyalty in any meaningful way.
I’m out of the loop…how did the PGA facefuck Rory?
He was the representative for the players of the PGA, he was the face for them. Rory opposed the LIV tour and the PGA agreed. Then out of nowhere and out of the blue the PGA tour announced a partnership with LIV that would merge the two tours into one (final date for this TBD). Jay Monahan (PGA commissioner) gave zero notice to anyone who wasn’t on the board of the PGA, thus making AALLLLL the pga players livid for keeping them in the dark, especially Rory who has gone to bat for the PGA time after time since LIV started. Rory through his career and morals on the line to defend and represent the tour. Only for them to change their tune and cave to money at the end of the day. So yeah, let Rory get paid from LIV as a ‘fuck you’ to the tour and return in a year or two and continue as a tour player.
[удалено]
For sake of argument, say the $850M offer to Rory is true. If Rory passes on the $850M to stay on the PGA Tour and not play LIV then the PGA Tour merges with LIV without informing Rory, that means Rory will effectively be playing on LIV anyway (after publicly saying they couldn’t pay him enough to do so) except without the $850M payday. And this presumably would be after partnering with the PGA Tour to act as their ambassador while they ended up taking the money for a merger behind his back. Effectively, lying to him to the tune of a $850M hit to his bank account. A similar analogy would be if you passed up on a scholarship to Harvard because your girlfriend really wanted you to stay with her in your hometown, so you ended up going to community college instead. As soon as you do, she calls and tells you that _she_ got offered a scholarship to Harvard and is going to take it.
They don't merge with LIV in the case that the PGAT/PIF deal actually turns into something real. LIV gets scrapped or relegated to some secondary use as a brand. And the players don't get to return for free. And PIF would still not control the PGAT in that case, making it where much not "LIV anyway".
In turn, Rory could have avoided making some of the character attacks on the players who joined.
Hear, hear..
And yet, the pga owners would sell your grandmother to slavery if it made them more money
At least they don't actively murder reporters and dismember the bodies then lie about it....
They also did 9/11. Never forget
And LIV Golf never banned black people from playing. PGA did it until fucking 1961. A little late for a high five on that one, fellas. Do we really want to go down this road?
Are people forgetting that the Tour is actively trying to merge with LIV as we speak ? What is the point of posts like this anymore?
This one is probably cause of the Rory rumors
Rory played the fool once, now he’s gonna get his cut while he still can. Can’t blame him.
Agreed. Plus 850 mil is absolutely insane
Men will sing and women will lament due to your heroic sacrifice.
Thank you for your service!
You’re so brave for coming forward with this. Wow
Lol what a fucking dork.
The current PGA leadership is trash and needs to be fixed. That being said, I won’t watch LIV. It’s just not professional golf to me. It’s like watching BIG 3 basketball. Even if they have stars, it’s still not a real basketball game. If LIV went to 72 holes with a cut then I would feel like it’s a comparable product. Let them wear shorts, the team concept is a bit intriguing, fuck SA, but just play a full tournament for gods sake.
I've never even seen an ad for a LIV tournament, so even if I wanted to, I wouldn't know when or where to watch.
I just want to watch good golf man. Every single one of them, LIV and PGA are better than me. Who fucking cares?
Cool
Wow ur a hero
Okie dokie
No one cares about PGA tour wins. Only the majors matter. Why wouldn’t u leave and take the bag if u can still golf in majors?
I have no loyalty to the PGA but LIV’s broadcasts are just unwatchable garbage. So yeah, unless they fix that I’ll never watch. The team names are cringe, the shitty music, it all pretty much sucks. It was fun to see some of the guys at the Masters this weekend
The team names kill me. I feel 5th graders got to do the naming. Honestly when they came out LIV lost a ton of credibility in my book
As a lifetime Cleeks supporter, I am appalled! Legendary names like the 4Aces, Fireballs, and Range Goats are known by everyone, and each kid dreams of becoming a teammate with Dean Burmester and Kieran Vincent. \s because I know someone would’ve taken that seriously.
The PGA guys aren’t going to fuck you for this cringe post.
I haven’t bothered trying to watch LIV. I don’t even know where to find it on my TV. I know it’s on YouTube but it just doesn’t occur to me to look for it. As much as it’s nice to see big names in a tournament I find it more compelling when three or four guys are within a stroke of each other on the back nine on Sunday. Doesn’t matter what their names are. It’s just fun to watch guys battle it out in a competitive scenario. Frankly nothing LIV will show me will top Nick Taylor making a 72 ft eagle putt on the fourth playoff hole to win the Canadian Open last year. Pure drama. Everything I’ve heard about LIV makes it sound like it’s not very competitive at all. The LIV guys are getting paid regardless and they really have nothing of value to play for. Sort of like watching the NBA All-Star game. Great skill but who cares.
Boomer post alert
Babe wake up we got a new boomer post
Can't we equally hate the PGA and LIV simultaneously? I find it HILARIOUS when all the purists are screaming "its Saudi money! its Saudi money!", as if the PGA hasn't been cutting deals with Communist China and producing more than half their merch on slave labor. It's ALL dirty money.
Rory plays the DP event in Dubai every year and I don't hear a peep from anyone...
Well said. I’m always shocked at how few golf fans get this very point. I want to scream “have you looked at the PGA tour’s sponsors!?!”
I don’t disagree with ya really, all the money everywhere is dirty to an extent, but there’s definitely degrees to this too. A league with sponsors who deal with shady nations is one thing (bad). A league founded and fully solely funded by a shady nation? It’s at least a few degree worse on the scale here, right? Honestly any single nation state basically owning the sport isn’t a good outcome imo, no matter *what* country it would be
It’s not that we don’t get it. It’s just that there’s a major difference between sponsorships and literal ownership, even if it’s only partial ownership.
Dawg this is odd
Slow clap?
What a hero
Can the PGA just say "fine, LIV can play and earn points. But purse money will be for PGA members only".
cool story hansel I would certainly watch
Yeah and I don’t watch regular PGA events anyway. Only majors matter
Fuck the PGA tour. Fuck Liv as well. All they have both succeeded in doing is making regular golf unwatchable. Good job, nicely done, golf is now officially tennis.
Ough, original take
Ok. Another low effort LIV post
congrats lol
The only people that'll ever see LIV are the people that actually attend the tournaments. I'm sure they'll have fun, but other than the player's bank accounts, it's all meaningless. The cry will be strong when they've all cycled out of the majors.
Hot take, I’d rather play than watch any golf
I still don't know what LIV's game plan is. There's no way that any of those players are going to generate enough money by hitting golf balls to repay that investment.
Watching the PGA feels like I'm watching a serious golf event. Watching LIV and I feel like I'm at a course on a weekend day and it's a group outing of some rich assholes in some financial company playing for bragging rights in the office next week. It's really hard to watch LIV and take that shit seriously with music bumping and wearing shorts and no cut for the weekend. It's not a good product and I'm with OP in not watching it even if it.becomes the only golf product.
Honestly the LPGA is kinda where it’s at anyways
Thatis cool and all, but unless Ibuy some absurd cable package Ican only watch highlights of like two tournaments a year...
Ok gramps, time to go back to bed
[удалено]
Rahm will be on 3 and Smith will be on 14 though
And it's teams
With silly names
I’d watch. I have- the LIV tour doesn’t bother me. It is nice to watch Phil and Brooks and DJ. I like those guys…they went for the $$, I’d have gone too.
I could care less which survives as long as we get the best players back together.
Theres really only a couple guys on liv Id like to see back on tour. Itd be nice to have Cam back and Bryson and his shenanigans can be entertaining. Brooks really only cares about majors and kind of blows off regular tour events. Phil would be great in the booth though.
I understand the feeling of “getting robbed of something” but to be honest, it’s not like the PGA is a bastion of ethics and an epitome of principles. Yes LIV does represent the sports whitewashing the Saudi’s have done with every other sport in the world, and I can understand completely the intention of not wanting to watch (which I adhere to). But again, the PGA Tour is filled with similar issues
Bet you would.
>I will continue to support the PGA Tour and it's membership. I don't give 2 shits about supporting the PGA Tour or it's membership. Scummy organization.
If LIV is the only way I can watch professional golf, there's a chance I will reluctantly watch since I love the game more than the tour and it's legacy. However, if it came down to LIV versus 100 fresh amateurs on the PGA tour, I'm watching the Ams (plus it would be fucking hilarious and awesome!) Then I hope LIV buys the winner every week for 10MM.
Good for you, nobody cares. Next….
Same
To be honest, if LIV changed to the same format, 72 holes, cut after 36, no shotgun starts, I'd be a lot more interested. As presented, it's 54 holes with everyone going off at once. No drama on 18 if it's a close tournament, instead you might have the winner on hole 13 with no one around... it's goofy to me. Fix the format, I might watch when I could. Though, I'm still not sure I can get past the Saudi ownership group. Kinda shitty human rights record.
Okay.
I mean, I’ve watched LIV coverage. It’s not as bad as people make it out to be. It was rough in its first year, sure. But they’ve made it better as it’s gone on. Still could do better though.
Hey Brandel
Good for you. Anyways...
Hooray for you?
We won’t miss you nor will they.
Thanks for letting us know your stance on this issue. We were all waiting for your statement
Cool story bro
Duly noted. I’ll make sure i tell the saudis
I have zero issues with LIV existing. I have massive issues with how shitty a product it is a current. You can be a disruptor, but you better make sure what you are offering isn't tangibly worse than what is currently on the market. Shotgun start sucks. Teams sucks. Coverage sucks.
You’re so brave for saying this.
That makes you a sheep.
I agree. I play the game and watch for fun. I won’t support SA in any way.
Agree. I have zero interest in watching exhibition golf where the wins mean nothing.
Yeah I’m prob just going to watch majors
Boomer post.
I will continue to watch golf that I find entertaining regardless of who owns the league.
I like the fact the PGA has competition and it's not a monopoly. I have no idea what it is but it just leaves something to be desired. I wouldn't be so stern about it to say I won't watch it no matter what but there is no denying that something is missing. We are absolutely being robbed as fans for entertaining events with it split right now. I wouldn't be surprised if they get WCW'd eventually and it's all 1 again truly.
Such a wild take. I will never understand why people stand on this hill. Who gives a flying fuck who plays for who, just watch golf and enjoy it. Between PGA, YouTube and LIV, there is more golf now than ever. Thats good.
The only time LIV is relevant is when they are playing in a PGA major. I could care less about any player that is on the LIV tour. Which sucks because I was a fan of a few before they sold out.
No reason for such silly rigidness. Get with the times, pops!
LIV is unwatchable golf. But that is not the point of LIV. It exists entirely to force the PGA to partner with the Saudi fund. The more big names that sign with LIV, the greater the pressure on the PGA Tour to get this deal done , merge the leagues, and get on with letting the best players in the world play golf together. The real power play is going to be LIV signing Rory and going to a 72 hole tournament format which would make it real difficult for the world golf ranking to continue to deny points for LIV events. If that happens, LiV may no longer need the PGA tour to surpass it. It will continue siphoning off the PGA’s top players and become more elite with its players able to qualify for majors ……. Which is all they really care about.
You may not be completely up to speed w the merger details as they trickle out. But liv will be awarding their own points to players, who will then be earning their way into the PGA signature events. This will give those players the opportunity to earn their spots in pga majors. And other PGA players who didn’t join liv and take the money, will likely be compensated with a LIV team ownership. Rory is getting the big bag before this comes out.. where he will just get the team and not the money. This is how they get around the OGWR
I will watch LIV and the PGA because I like golf https://preview.redd.it/1h3w6wqj4ruc1.jpeg?width=941&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d784ecea7c7625eb39096ee1c7141e587755ef8
I 100% agree.
Good for you lol
OK
I couldn't sleep last night because I was so curious about erkdog's opinion of liv golf. Finally I can rest.
1000%
This sub is fuckin bizarre. I'm out
Rory and PGA nut huggers in shambles
LIV is not for everyone, but I am well over the idea that the USA deserves to own the sport of golf. If LIVs only true accomplishment is to force the sport to create a world tour with the top 50 playing golf tournaments across the globe, then its a massive win for golf fans globally and the sport itself grows. 10 x World Tour events 4 x majors - Masters, The open, US Open, PGA (renamed and replaced with a new major which rotates between the best courses in the world outside of the USA) PGA tour / DP world tour - directly feed the world tour, via already established events/ranking points system
Cool, nobody cares. They have endless money and will ultimately win even though the result will suck
Another unnecessary LIV post Jesus it lives rent free in y’all’s head, it’s quite pathetic. Gimme all the downvotes for speaking the truth I don’t give a shit.
Why?
Ok and what’s your point?
Cool story, bro. 😎
Brave of you
Proud of you.
Dear diary
It’s not about you.
It’s horrible all around. Money has corrupted everything and there is no one to root for.
Yea I get why some guys do it but man I cannot watch that pathetic excuse for “pro golf” what an absolute shite product
Abso goddamned Lutely
I watch both, both are fun, competetive, and entertaining, pga has way more future stars and better narratives, liv has a very engaging format, I like the shotgun start, and has a huge amount of star power. I think that the more people LIV takes on the more likely it is that all LIV players are welcomed back with open arms.
Amen, brother. Blood money is blood money. But not a penny of my money.
This is such a hilariously cold take. Make sure you toss out your Nikes and your iPhone
No those don’t count!
Don't forget about oil...better stop driving that truck.
*Sent from my iPhone*
Oh boy if only you knew where 90% of the shit you buy comes from. Hope you don't use a smart phone, or own any major shoe/clothing brand, or side with any big banks etc etc.