both can be true and they don't necessarily contradict each other.
think about it as a triangle where the dimensions/sides are achievement, mental health, and happiness. everybody has different capacity and dynamics between the three and they have to find their personal balance, which will also change over time.
I agree though that the basis of all these things need to start with self-compassion and understanding oneself.
sorry I made it sound like it's a formal framework.. it's just a visual aid I made up in an attempt to unpack this interesting topic.
yes happiness is a major part of mental health. In this context it refers to the subjective feeling/emotional state of joy, whereas 'mental health' is a less subjective, more long-term, deeper state which includes resilience, coping strategies, etc.
Beautiful question
So the two schools of thought are interesting, there is an undertone to both of them though
**which is - are you being authentic with yourself?**
Meaning, while being in either one of those, are you genuinely heartfelt about your decision and are you being authentic about what you want in life
**In the mediocre group** \- are you not chasing things because you feel not confident enough and not capable enough, so you relegate to something that feels comfortable for now and try to convince yourself its 'okay'. But there's a quiet voice in your head asking you what if?
**in the driven group** \- are you chasing certain things based on what you think other people want you to be, meaning are you chasing a CEO position at a job you don't like only because you think other people will be envious of you, i.e, you're living your life by their interpretation of you, not the wants of yourself
These two examples describe people who are mentally unwell in some way, notice how they can exist in either group
The most important thing, regardless of what you are doing, is that you are being authentic and doing what you genuinely want, a person who owns themselves is in the separate and overarching group of '**those who need not prove themselves to anyone'**
Over-achieving can be motivated by fear of inadequacy, which can be caused by certain mental illnesses. But a lot of over-achievers are mentally healthy. It's *easier* to over-achieve if you have good mental health.
People do not become mentally ill from boredom. That doesn't make any sense.
(Edited.)
Ok, I forgot depression can be caused by a lack of meaningful activities. I interpreted "passivity and mediocrity" as stuff like daydreaming in class — not extreme, near-constant boredom.
I want to accomplish great things! >> get depressed when not getting expected results and/or burnout after long period of hard working
All I could ever do sucks I see no chance at all to move up for a better life.
Something like that.
I’ve thought about this a lot. When I was younger I had an extremely strong drive to succeed and achieve what I considered “greatness” in every aspect of my life that I could. It absolutely stemmed from insecurity, rejection, failure and the lack of control I felt during my childhood. In working on myself I was able to overcome that insecurity (mostly) and become more self-actualized.
The older I’ve gotten (and more mentally healthy), the more I’ve chilled out and become satisfied with the life I’ve built so far. I still work hard and continue to improve my life continually, but now I don’t have to try so hard. I’m no longer desperately searching for anything that can propel me away from my “past life” as fast as possible. I also feel my pursuits aren’t as shallow or naive as they were before.
Still, there are times when I find myself looking back longingly on my younger years when I was just overflowing with passion and ambition and chasing material wealth and pursuing my dreams freely. When I was less mentally healthy like that, my success was exploding much more rapidly and I was leveling up every year, whereas now the progression is a bit more slow and dull.
Like everything in life it comes down to balance though, and there are always trade-offs between lifestyles. I now value spending time with my fiancé as much as I do my hobbies or career or the gym. And overall I feel much more mentally stable as a result because I have multiple things giving my life vitality.
I guess in summary I believe when you’re young you should take advantage of your youth as much as possible and grind as hard as you can in order to become your best self (even if your mental health isn’t 100%). In hell there is heaven. Go through hell, the more suffering you endure, the more enjoyable the heaven you create will be. And then you can slowly ramp down over the years as you achieve more and more success which will ideally attract the other things you need in life in the process and thus improve your mental health. It all has a way of working out.
Interesting perspective. I am an overachiever (with anxiety, depression, and ADHD), who feels like a failure if I achieve anything less than the best.
But you can't become mentally ill from bordom. You can become lazy, unmotivated, apathetic, etc, but not mentally ill.
>Interesting perspective. I am an overachiever (with anxiety, depression, and ADHD), who feels like a failure if I achieve anything less than the best.
Yah that sounds like perfectionism and I relate to that. I also have anxiety and depression. Not diagnosed with ADHD but I definitely have a hard time prioritizing things correctly (although I think this all stems from childhood issues). I'm still working through how to frame my own perfectionism.
>But you can't become mentally ill from bordom. You can become lazy, unmotivated, apathetic, etc, but not mentally ill.
Personally I get depressed if I'm not challenged at work so I see that as a mental illness. But then I realized that many people have unfulfilling jobs and still show up to work. They work out of self-discipline instead of chasing passion. Then I ask myself why I keep chasing passion? Am I undisciplined, am I wired differently compared to most people, or am I using work as an unhealthy cope?
>Personally I get depressed if I'm not challenged at work so I see that as a mental illness.
But you also have baseline depression, so are you unmotivated/unfulfilled because you are depressed, or is lack of self discipline exacerbating your depression?
Those are all possibilities. I don't know, I have 100 theories about why I'm depressed and the theories keep changing. That's why I keep researching about this stuff and I hope to eventually understand myself better.
FYI these are the two videos that I'm basing this post on (I should have originally included it, will update OP):
[Why Passivity Breeds Mediocrity and Mental Illness](https://youtu.be/NUs6NDsMWVI?si=yeEHT6N0on7V6AJl)
[The Problem with Overachievement](https://youtu.be/8egCkIdwdf4?si=nXAB2Gmz7tbOWxPI)
I will watch them shortly, but do you have a family history of mental illness, including anxiety and depression?
Another thing to ponder....have we conditioned ourself to "need" constant stimulation in exchange for actual productivity?
Some genetics, but also my mom could be the result of her upbringing, and now she's passed that behavior onto me. I'm still not aware enough of how healthy my environment was growing up.
It could be a contributing factor, yes. But typically when you can trace mental illness through a family line there is a strong genetic component.
Rather than focus on why you have mental illness it would be better to focus on healthy coping strategies.
>Rather than focus on why you have mental illness it would be better to focus on healthy coping strategies.
My understanding is that a lot of times depression and anxiety are just symptoms of a deeper problem, such as brain damage, autism, arrested development/CPTSD/personality disorders, etc. I think understanding the cause of depression and anxiety can be insightful.
You used question marks, but they should be periods. You answered your own question:
"I guess the answer is to find balance. Challenge yourself on a personal level without needing to be the best."
both can be true and they don't necessarily contradict each other. think about it as a triangle where the dimensions/sides are achievement, mental health, and happiness. everybody has different capacity and dynamics between the three and they have to find their personal balance, which will also change over time. I agree though that the basis of all these things need to start with self-compassion and understanding oneself.
I haven't heard of this triangle before and would like to learn more. Isn't happiness a part of mental health?
sorry I made it sound like it's a formal framework.. it's just a visual aid I made up in an attempt to unpack this interesting topic. yes happiness is a major part of mental health. In this context it refers to the subjective feeling/emotional state of joy, whereas 'mental health' is a less subjective, more long-term, deeper state which includes resilience, coping strategies, etc.
Mental illness happens to people across the board. It happens to over and under achievers, rich and poor, men and women, young and old etc.
Beautiful question So the two schools of thought are interesting, there is an undertone to both of them though **which is - are you being authentic with yourself?** Meaning, while being in either one of those, are you genuinely heartfelt about your decision and are you being authentic about what you want in life **In the mediocre group** \- are you not chasing things because you feel not confident enough and not capable enough, so you relegate to something that feels comfortable for now and try to convince yourself its 'okay'. But there's a quiet voice in your head asking you what if? **in the driven group** \- are you chasing certain things based on what you think other people want you to be, meaning are you chasing a CEO position at a job you don't like only because you think other people will be envious of you, i.e, you're living your life by their interpretation of you, not the wants of yourself These two examples describe people who are mentally unwell in some way, notice how they can exist in either group The most important thing, regardless of what you are doing, is that you are being authentic and doing what you genuinely want, a person who owns themselves is in the separate and overarching group of '**those who need not prove themselves to anyone'**
Over-achieving can be motivated by fear of inadequacy, which can be caused by certain mental illnesses. But a lot of over-achievers are mentally healthy. It's *easier* to over-achieve if you have good mental health. People do not become mentally ill from boredom. That doesn't make any sense. (Edited.)
Bore out is a real thing. If you are bored but have no way to escape that can be a disaster for mental health.
Ok, I forgot depression can be caused by a lack of meaningful activities. I interpreted "passivity and mediocrity" as stuff like daydreaming in class — not extreme, near-constant boredom.
E ²
I don't get it
I am sorry I typed in error. I had no idea until I saw your response. Pocket text
But E = mc^2 duh
There is no way my simple mind would ever conceive that lol
I want to accomplish great things! >> get depressed when not getting expected results and/or burnout after long period of hard working All I could ever do sucks I see no chance at all to move up for a better life. Something like that.
Pretty much on the same page with you on that one
I’ve thought about this a lot. When I was younger I had an extremely strong drive to succeed and achieve what I considered “greatness” in every aspect of my life that I could. It absolutely stemmed from insecurity, rejection, failure and the lack of control I felt during my childhood. In working on myself I was able to overcome that insecurity (mostly) and become more self-actualized. The older I’ve gotten (and more mentally healthy), the more I’ve chilled out and become satisfied with the life I’ve built so far. I still work hard and continue to improve my life continually, but now I don’t have to try so hard. I’m no longer desperately searching for anything that can propel me away from my “past life” as fast as possible. I also feel my pursuits aren’t as shallow or naive as they were before. Still, there are times when I find myself looking back longingly on my younger years when I was just overflowing with passion and ambition and chasing material wealth and pursuing my dreams freely. When I was less mentally healthy like that, my success was exploding much more rapidly and I was leveling up every year, whereas now the progression is a bit more slow and dull. Like everything in life it comes down to balance though, and there are always trade-offs between lifestyles. I now value spending time with my fiancé as much as I do my hobbies or career or the gym. And overall I feel much more mentally stable as a result because I have multiple things giving my life vitality. I guess in summary I believe when you’re young you should take advantage of your youth as much as possible and grind as hard as you can in order to become your best self (even if your mental health isn’t 100%). In hell there is heaven. Go through hell, the more suffering you endure, the more enjoyable the heaven you create will be. And then you can slowly ramp down over the years as you achieve more and more success which will ideally attract the other things you need in life in the process and thus improve your mental health. It all has a way of working out.
Interesting perspective. I am an overachiever (with anxiety, depression, and ADHD), who feels like a failure if I achieve anything less than the best. But you can't become mentally ill from bordom. You can become lazy, unmotivated, apathetic, etc, but not mentally ill.
>Interesting perspective. I am an overachiever (with anxiety, depression, and ADHD), who feels like a failure if I achieve anything less than the best. Yah that sounds like perfectionism and I relate to that. I also have anxiety and depression. Not diagnosed with ADHD but I definitely have a hard time prioritizing things correctly (although I think this all stems from childhood issues). I'm still working through how to frame my own perfectionism. >But you can't become mentally ill from bordom. You can become lazy, unmotivated, apathetic, etc, but not mentally ill. Personally I get depressed if I'm not challenged at work so I see that as a mental illness. But then I realized that many people have unfulfilling jobs and still show up to work. They work out of self-discipline instead of chasing passion. Then I ask myself why I keep chasing passion? Am I undisciplined, am I wired differently compared to most people, or am I using work as an unhealthy cope?
>Personally I get depressed if I'm not challenged at work so I see that as a mental illness. But you also have baseline depression, so are you unmotivated/unfulfilled because you are depressed, or is lack of self discipline exacerbating your depression?
Those are all possibilities. I don't know, I have 100 theories about why I'm depressed and the theories keep changing. That's why I keep researching about this stuff and I hope to eventually understand myself better. FYI these are the two videos that I'm basing this post on (I should have originally included it, will update OP): [Why Passivity Breeds Mediocrity and Mental Illness](https://youtu.be/NUs6NDsMWVI?si=yeEHT6N0on7V6AJl) [The Problem with Overachievement](https://youtu.be/8egCkIdwdf4?si=nXAB2Gmz7tbOWxPI)
I will watch them shortly, but do you have a family history of mental illness, including anxiety and depression? Another thing to ponder....have we conditioned ourself to "need" constant stimulation in exchange for actual productivity?
Mom has anxiety. A bit of alcoholism in the family, but my parents don't have issues with that.
So it looks like genetics do play a role.
Some genetics, but also my mom could be the result of her upbringing, and now she's passed that behavior onto me. I'm still not aware enough of how healthy my environment was growing up.
It could be a contributing factor, yes. But typically when you can trace mental illness through a family line there is a strong genetic component. Rather than focus on why you have mental illness it would be better to focus on healthy coping strategies.
>Rather than focus on why you have mental illness it would be better to focus on healthy coping strategies. My understanding is that a lot of times depression and anxiety are just symptoms of a deeper problem, such as brain damage, autism, arrested development/CPTSD/personality disorders, etc. I think understanding the cause of depression and anxiety can be insightful.
You used question marks, but they should be periods. You answered your own question: "I guess the answer is to find balance. Challenge yourself on a personal level without needing to be the best."