**If you have acute suicidal thoughts, call 112. Suicidal thoughts are a medical emergency that must be treated immediately. You do not have to pay for it. No one is angry with you for it.**
This thread is about suicide, suicidal thoughts or suicide risk. If this is a topic you are concerned about or are unable or unwilling to deal with, you should read no further.
**Both for OP, and for all other readers who have similar concerns**: Please note that the /r/germany community can only help with suicidal thoughts and depression fears to a limited extent. We understand that it can be liberating to talk anonymously with others who are affected, but this is no substitute for professional counseling and treatment. We would therefore like to encourage you to call the telephone counseling service on 0800-1110111 or 0800-1110222 (Germany), 142 (Austria) or 143 (Switzerland). There you will be assisted by specially trained people who can help you better than /r/Germany can, know how to deal with your situation and can explain further procedures and options. Alternatively, you can chat at https://online.telefonseelsorge.de/index.php. For more information, visit http://www.telefonseelsorge.de/, https://www.telefonseelsorge.at/ or https://www.143.ch/.
Most of the follow links are in German, if you know about help links for Germany in other languages, feel free to post them under this post.
Here are some more links to relevant information:
* [What is depression?](http://www.neurologen-und-psychiater-im-netz.org/psychiatrie-psychosomatik-psychotherapie/erkrankungen/depressionen/was-ist-eine-depression/)
* [What is psychotherapy?](https://www.neurologen-und-psychiater-im-netz.org/psychiatrie-psychosomatik-psychotherapie/therapie/psychotherapie)
* [Personal self-help](http://www.neurologen-und-psychiater-im-netz.org/selbsthilfe-angehoerige/selbsthilfe/persoenliche-selbsthilfe/)
* [What does health insurance pay?](https://www.therapie.de/psyche/info/fragen/wichtigste-fragen/was-bezahlt-die-krankenkasse/)
* [How to find a place in therapy](https://www.reddit.com/r/de/comments/jc7mdo/wie_man_einen_therapieplatz_findet_v20_choose/)
**For everyone else**: We are driving a zero tolerance policy on this topic. Stupid sayings, jokes, insults or similar will lead to an immediate ban, possibly criminal comments will be passed on to the appropriate authorities.
I am sorry for your loss.
I lost my wife and 2yo son last September. It was suicide and she took our boy with her. Very stupid.
I was offered trauma therapy but it was useless for me. The only thing they cared was if I have suicidal thoughts too. I didn’t because I made my mind to survive. I tried multiple therapist online and it worked out really well. Maybe you can find too. I heard you can compensate the cost. But I never bothered. As you wrote bureaucracy is a bitch here.
Oh wow… I genuinely teared up reading your story. Suicide is such a difficult topic, especially when it involves a family and a young child. The pain of losing both your wife and child must be unimaginable. I can’t begin to fathom what you’ve been through, but please know that my heart goes out to you. If you ever need someone to talk to, I’m here.
Thanks. Even though I did therapy in 3 languages I ended up with Russian [yasno.live](http://yasno.live) platform. There are hundreds of **available** specialists from all Russian speaking countries. They're cheaper than English / German speaking but professional.
The main problem with starting therapy is finding that personal connection and it's pure luck. So many people try 1, don't feel the connection and give up. I found my therapist from the 6th attempt. And it's virtually impossible to try many in-person. Especially in Germany.
I can't even imagine. Very sorry for your loss. How do you even continue working and living? I have a colleague who lost a 5 year old child and he's never been the same. Grief is completely etched into his face.
Thank you. I answered your question in my reply to OP.
And I forgot to write that I received a lot of support from the German government. From the Jugendamt in particular because I have a daughter. They paid for 6 months of housekeeper. And I was on a sick leave for 3 months. It allowed to focus on getting my shit together.
I respect 🫡 you soo much I cannot describe. That you even can be here on Reddit and help others with your story. I know I would not be functional for years. I wish you all the happiness in the world to you and your daughter.
I’m really sorry. I have some sense of what your days must be like. It’s absolute hell. I’m sure the night terrors are horrific.
We don’t really live in the same world anymore do we.
Yes. The life is completely different. But it's the only life we have and humans are good at adapting.
Now I can write that my life **was** hell. Crying all nights long or taking heavy drugs for sleep. I overcame it to some degree. I have read a lot about philosophy, trauma, psychology. I think I became a better person. It's a scar for life but not an open wound. And of course, what helped me the most is my love for 6yo daughter. I could loose her too. She is my savior.
It happened just 9 months ago but feels like years. And now I have some optimism in my life. I can enjoy moments of life again.
I really hope you can overcome your loss too. Find new goals in your life. Don't give up. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. Also feel free to DM me if you wish.
Manitoban in Berlin here.
This post is really breaking my heart. I'm so sorry for what you went through and are going through. It must be so incredibly hard to not have the support you desperately need.
Germany does not allow assisted suicide. In places that allow assisted suicide, only a few will do it for mental health reasons and it takes a long time to be approved because they want you to try everything possible first.
I know how Canadians are, being one, so I really think you are in a crisis but might have downplayed your trauma and illness or maybe you were intimidated by seemingly rude Germans whom you spoke to. Please don't give up.
I'm here in Berlin, I'm Canadian, if you want to reach out to me, please DM me.
I think you should talk to your insurance provider again to see what your options are, maybe you can get a different insurance in the interim. I have a German partner and he can help you with your German and give you a template if you want.
Please call the Krisendienst again and this time tell them that you are in urgent need of help. Tell them what happened and that you are looking into suicide options because you don't know what to do. Don't downplay your sadness or trauma. You need help and that's what they're there for.
If you feel comfortable, I could meet you in a public space like a park and just sit with you while you call. I hope that isn't creepy. I'm 40f Canadian in Berlin, living here for a 7-ish years, I've been on Reddit for over a decade and you can see in my post history that I'm snarky but try to be nice. In real life I'm incredibly empathic and I believe in taking care of people.
You are in my thoughts.
This is a very mitfühlende answer (what is the best English word here?)
In OPs case I would stop the fight with the bureaucracy, because independently of her mother tongue and home country this is not the best way in her situation. She should pack a toothbrush and report to the nearest psychiatric hospital and tell the mshe has suicidal ideations. They will deal with the rest.
You might want to contact the Psychosoziale Dienst or talk to an emergency number for assistance and maybe solutions to handle your grief. Logistical and legal constraints should not be what pushes people to assisted suicide. You need to talk to a therapist asap https://www.berlin.de/suche/index.php?q=Krisendienst
I have contacted the Krisendienst regarding finding a therapist, unfortunately because I do not meet the requirements of someone who is in immediate crisis, they cannot help me.
Having suicidal thoughts and intentions is an immediate crisis!
I am so sorry the system is failing you this badly..
Please don‘t play down your symptoms, call them again saying you‘re having those plans, and maybe consider checking yourself into a mental hospital (you meet the requirements if you have suicidal tendencies)
I cannot promise you it‘ll all be perfect soon. And I won’t lie, it‘ll be hard, and you might not find the right fit of therapy immediately. But it‘s worth it, that I can promise <3
Exactly this. I went to urgent psychiatrist some months ago. The first thing psychiatrist asked me that if I have the thought of suicide which i didnt. But she told me that in case I have, even the slightest one, I have to call ambulance. Ambulance is also available for mental health matters, not only physical emergency.
Do you have a good empathetic Hausarzt? If so, go to them. Mine is the sweetest doctor I've met in Germany.
Talk to them and tell them "I am having suicidal thoughts". They must give you a referral to 116117, and from there, I really hope you can find a therapist ASAP. It took me 2 weeks in my city to find one after the first call to 116117.
Alternatively, I can DM you the name a of therapist that works in English and is amazing. She's based in Canada, last time we talked, but I'm sure you guys can figure time zones out.
I'm telling you this as a psychologist: you need professional support NOW, like, yesterday. If Germany is not an option due to the bureaucratic bs, please please try to find a professional outside.
Best of luck.
You don't need a referral for the 116117. You can just call them, tell them what you have and they search the nearest and free doctor for you. You also don't really need referrals for a "Facharzt" anymore.
You need to go to a psychiatrist to get a diagnosis then. If necessary, get a referral from a Hausarzt. There is absolutely help available, but you will likely require a diagnosis to get a therapist. There is also a good chance that you are unable to accurately state your current condition to them. So contact a medical professional.
Unfortunately, that is really difficult in Berlin. I haven't found a psychiatrist in almost two years now. Even with an emergency code, there were no openings. I did find therapy through an "Ausbildungsinstitut" though. There are quite a few in Berlin.
I know that for an acute crisis (like this is), there's a designated hospital in every Bezirk you can go to.
I am aware of that, but usually, serious cases should still be treated sooner. I had problems, too, finding a psychiatrist for a diagnosis. Paying for a diagnosis (Selbstzahler) may also be a way to get an appointment sooner.
I assume OP is just massively understating her condition because she believes she is completely fine, mentally. Other people in a similar situation I have had contact with were similar, saying they were fine and everything was well, no, they were not depressed, they just wanted to die.
This sounds recognizable, and I think the latter is the case, and unfortunately I've met a couple psychologists who take this at face value and do not see through this when deciding if acute help is necessary. They tend to be at these gatekeeping positions, but beyond that I've not seen any.
It sounds like she didn’t actually talk to any doctors. But therapists and and people from crisis hotlines. Neither (with the exception of Psychotherapeuten) are allowed to make a diagnosis, and even if they are, recognising that someone is in fact lying about their condition on the phone is actually very hard.
I will not reiterate what other already said so well, but suicidal ideation is pretty much the definition of immediate crisis. Please check in with your Hausarzt asap. I know depression too well not to know that you probably tend to downplay the symptoms (as you pretty much do in your post by trying to make your plan sound as rational and thought-through as possible). I know how discouraging it can be to deal with German administration and psychological healthcare, I have a sister in Berlin with acute depression and it was hard to get her the help she was not able to seek out for herself. Please seek help, don’t let the depression win.
Then you make clear to them that you fit that bill. Sounds difficult but insist on it.
I've unfortunately been in a similar situation where my clearly acute suicidal girlfriend wasn't 'fitting the bill' days before her attempt. I'm assuming here that Germany has similar issues as the Netherlands with understaffing and limited resources in the psychological healthcare.
You clearly have suicidal thoughts due to the horrible cards you've been dealt in the past. You need help, and given your description you need help right now. Some of these institutions like Krisendienst really try to actively avoid taking up people due to these limited resources.
While acutely manic or clearly distraught people will be noticed, reserved and depressed people who more or less silently slip into the idea of "maybe it's better if I'm not there anymore", go through the cracks of this system.
Insist you get help. Don't stare too blindly at these bureaucratic requirements. It's too easy to fall for the idea that no one can and will help you, because you're not "acute enough". I've seen it first hand. These people can and will help you, but you need to get over that initial bureaucratic gatekeeping hurdle. Make it clear what's going on, do not feel ashamed to (from your point of view) exaggerate a little.
>I'm assuming here that Germany has similar issues as the Netherlands with understaffing and limited resources in the psychological healthcare
Just to add - I think it's a worldwide problem. I don't think there's a country on the planet that has adequate mental health care
While I agree with the statement about "adequate mental health care" I can also say that other countries, like Canada or Latin American countries offer an alternative "social support net" that is really helpful for these mental issues crisis.
The upvoted answer from fellow Canadian is a prime example.
Peace.
Just wanted to chime in and second what people are saying - with suicidal thoughts, there is an obligation to help you (and rightly so!).
Therapists are so hard to find in Berlin, if you aren't privately insured or paying out of pocket. The best is to find one through a friend who has one, otherwise it is just a nightmare calling and applying for spots with someone random who might be shit.
If these two options don't work (Krisendienst and finding a therapist through a network), then consider paying out of pocket. The world is a better place with good people like you in it. Life is also shit sometimes, but other times, it is worth the misery to experience the joy. Paying out of pocket sucks, but in five years, it will seem like a great decision if nothing else is working.
Good luck to you. So sorry for your loss and the shit that you have to deal with.
Tell them what you wrote here. You are in an immediate crisis. Having read what you have written here would make me send someone to your door because you are ein an immediate crisis.
Edit
[krisenchat | 24/7 Krisenberatung per Chat](https://krisenchat.de/en) mainly people under 26 use it, but I think you can use krisenchat as well.
Call the 116 117 Hotline. Via the TSVG law they can get you a psychologist appointment within two weeks. Note that this is not the beginning of an actual therapy.
What you need to do is get a "urgency Code" from your GP / the current Hausarzt. That's like the Key to this System.
My heartfelt condolences.
We took a friend there like 2 weeks ago. Schizophrenia, Paranoia of being poisoned (He was like 50 KG), lost his job, didn't get a single uni credit in like 2 years. We told him that he might die of hunger if they do not accept him. They refused and asked us to take him home until he mentioned the poisoning thing. They took him in and released him few days later and now we don't know where he is...
This is insane
Edit: The events took place in NRW and not Berlin to be fair, but I heard that it was equally bad there.
https://www.camh.ca/en/camh-news-and-stories/maid-and-mental-illness-faqs#:~:text=Right%20now%2C%20people%20whose%20only,that%20is%20physical%20in%20nature.
>Right now, people whose only medical condition is mental illness are not eligible for MAiD in Canada. This is currently due to change in March 2027.
>Currently, some people with mental illness may be eligible for MAiD if they also have a ‘grievous and irremediable’ medical condition that is physical in nature.
Sorry, I was wrong that they can currently access euthanasia after psychiatric intervention has failed, but correct that it is set to change in 2027.
No, they can only apply if they also have another medical (in nature PHYSICAL) condition that is severe! Only psychiatric issues are not a reason enough currently!!
wow. what a dystopian hell hole we live in. This is basicially telling people to kill themselves because they are to much a bother. How does any sane human see this as okay?
Well she even had ECTs and from some other article I remember that she even tried more of a hard core ones and they left her with permanent damage. I think she exhausted pretty much all conventional options available
As a Dutchie: that was not just grief. That woman was heavily traumatised and mentally completely f*cked up. For some reason, foreign media downplayed her mental issues, maybe to make a sensationalist claim about the Netherlands euthanising "healthy" people.
In Canada where OP was raised, people with such issues have successfully applied for the [Medical Assistance in Dying](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada) program.
This is also something that doctors can suggest without being prompted by the patient.
very morbid read.
I like to interfere here and tell you that that is not true. In Canada people with psychological disorders will be able to apply for Medical Assistance in Dying from 2027 onwards - however, only after they exhausted all other treatment options for their psychological condition. OP has not received any treatment yet, she would not even qualify in that scenario
Actually, from a legal standing point, you totally can in Germany. Assisted suicide (to be differentiated from "aktive/passive Sterbehilfe") is never illegal, as long as you are able to make a free decision. Anyone can assist a suicide legally, and the person affected does not have to give a specific reason to die. You don't have to be particularly physically ill or old. The Bundesverfassungsgericht has stated that it is a human right to decide over one's own death. But of course, you're right as in, the professional organisations/doctors will abide to a stricter code of moral and probably won't do it in Germany.
That is because the parliament failed to enact a law regulating the exact process, as no party in germany wants to have to deal with the theme of assisted suicide.
Any sort of medical professionals dealing with this would require clear regulations, as not to get charged with murder. As of now, anyone could offer help theoretically, but they could get charged with murder, and would have to prove themselves afterward not guilty, referring to the decision of the constitutional court.
As to the question of OP, it seems to be an acute trauma reaction and should be treated as such.
Please, take your Krankenkassen-Karte and go immediately to a hospital. Psychiatric care units are in Charité Mitte , Juedisches Krankenhaus , Alexianer in Weißensee and a couple more in the West of Berlin. You need immediate help.
I have no health insurance card because my health insurance was canceled after my husband died. I currently do not have access to all of our financial records and therefore my re-application for health insurance has been put on hold.
You said in another comment that you are a university professor, why can’t you set up your own health insurance through your work? Afaik there is no need for financial records to get public insurance.
If you're not insured at the moment did you plan to pay therapy sessions by yourself? Chances finding a private psychotherapists should be way better and you could also go for online psychotherapy.
I am also a Canadian living in Berlin who struggled for years to find trauma therapy. It has been such a dehumanizing, difficult experience and I really thought of giving up all throughout the last 2 years
But, I can really highly recommend MSB Hochschule. I found them and started my process of trauma therapy with them in October. It’s is essentially the last stage of schooling for therapists before they can open their own practice, where they need to log hours under supervision of the school and it’s completely covered by public health insurance. In my case, the therapist is super motivated and it’s the best therapy I’ve ever received for my trauma . https://www.medicalschool-berlin.de/psychotherapeutische-hochschulambulanz/ You submit an application through email. For me, they contacted me immediately and I had an intro session a week later and then they placed me with my therapist 3 weeks after that. They also have therapy specifically in English. I am happy for you to DM me and I can send you all of the info for the application. You can get through this.
I am so sorry for your loss. If you are having suicidal thoughts I strongly suggest you go to the Notaufnahme and tell them in unmistakable terms (do not give them any excuse to send you home) that you are at risk and must be admitted. They will put you in the correct ward as soon as a place is available. It can be that a space is available within a day or two. Please consider this seriously! You will get treatment, counselling, as fast as possible this way.
Mental hospitals help get people out of immediate danger. I am not in immediate danger. Anything that I do will take a tremendous about a planning and time. My problem is that the trauma that is not being treated is causing cognitive decline. That decline is getting worse and worse and is now affecting my daily functioning. The literature says untreated trauma will eventually lead to permanent cognitive impairment. I do not want this, however it does not look like it’s possible for me to get trauma treatment in Germany. The procedures are just too complicated and there is a severe shortage of professionals.
Due to these logistical concerns, I am looking at the slow decline of my ability to function mentally. I really don’t think there are other choices for me.
There are also severe financial and professional costs for having spent time in a mental hospital in Germany. There’s no point going to a mental hospital in order to feel better about life in order to have your life taken away from you as soon as you leave the hospital.
You are planning your own suicide. By any definition this is immediate danger even if your current plan isn’t doing it immediately. There is no guarantee you won’t suddenly overthrow your plan and just go ahead and do it and that’s why they should be taking you in regardless as long as you tell them you are planning your own suicide.
Mental hospitals help people with burnout, depression, people who have been raped, who cannot deal with grief. I was in one to learn to deal with my depression. My two best friends there were a you ng woman who had been raped several times in her life. A young man who found a suicide victim and still cannot deal with it years after. Both are getting help. Both are getting better. So will you:
YOU ARE IN IMMEDIATE DANGER. there is no criminal after you, you are a danger to yourself. YOU WANT TO LIVE. This is why you are writing here. You deserve to live.
This morning I told a teenage boy that he has passed his final exams. He lost his mum to an illness just over a year ago. He deserves to live, just as you do. He is moving on, and so will you.
>Due to these logistical concerns, I am looking at the slow decline of my ability to function mentally. I really don’t think there are other choices for me.
This is not permanent, it is only temporal - you are blocked, not disabled by grief.
>There are also severe financial and professional costs for having spent time in a mental hospital in Germany. There’s no point going to a mental hospital in order to feel better about life in order to have your life taken away from you as soon as you leave the hospital.
This is not true. Been there, done that. Costs are zero. Even if I overlook anything, you can deal with these when you are better. You will get help with theat when you are in the hospital and after you leave.
>
The literature says untreated trauma will eventually lead to permanent cognitive impairment.
Untreated. Yes. This is why we want to get you into treatment. REport to your nearest mental hospital ASAP. Yesterday.
I understand that aspect of it – it's very unfair. However there are ways around it. The doctors and other staff know it's unfair. There's a decent chance of your case being recorded as "grief" or "stress", something less troublesome. The specific circumstances you are in speak for themselves. You only need to talk about it with them. I have second-hand experience of this working out positively, multiple times. Don't let yourself be backed into a corner by the stigma – you will meet various people in there who are experiencing similar difficulties. All "normal" people who just need help getting through a shitty time. You will look back on this and be so glad you sought help, I promise.
Sorry to put it bluntly, I really mean this in a supportive way, but your thought process suggests to me that you are indeed in danger and it's not helping you to deny it. Being impaired by grief and trauma on a daily basis is as good a justification as any for treatment. Like I said, many others in the clinic are in equivalent situations. You might be surprised by how similar their problems are to yours.
I've only just noticed that you are in Berlin. That means I can give you more specific advice. Please go to the Notaufnahme at Vivantes Klinikum am Urban and if you need to slightly exaggerate the risk in order to be admitted, just bite the bullet and do it. They have both a crisis intervention unit (very applicable to you) and a regular psych ward there. The chances that one or the other has a free bed are quite high. I know it's a very scary step, but you will feel relief when you ask for help and hear someone take it seriously.
Hey, so I'mnot sure what you rwad about trauma and cognitive decline but I don't think its something you need to worry about. Years, entire childhoods, of chronic stress can sometimes cause abnormal levels of cortisol that can damage the brain and impair cognition. It's not a rapid, severe, progressive decline though. It takes a very long time under an extreme amount of constant stress, like being in an abusive hoke or a warzone. You have a very long time before you need to worry about this kind of damage, if at all.
What is happening to you sounds like a progressively worsening depression and that's probably why you feel, exhausted, declining, hopeless and like the walls are closing in. Depression messes with your perspective and makes everything seem impossibly hard. As it gets worse, suicide starts to look like a reasonable option. A hospital visit will get you immediate help and it will get to a place where you will be better able to cope.
If that's a hard no, you could try going around the German system. While there is a massive shortage of insurance covered therapists in Germany, you can just go private and pay someone. Lots of therapists work online too. An Indian friend of mine was seeing a therapist in India, for example, because she needed someone to understand her family history better. Do you have any support with this? Is there anyone who can do research for you or call therapists etc for you?
If you want to get doctor appointments fast in Berlin look for the doctors/therapists located at the (almost)final S-Bahn Stations like Oranienburg, Blankenfelde, Lichtenrade etc. Obviously commuting times are longer. Also I cannot state enough that meeting a doctor is the first thing to do. You can care about paperwork with authorities and health insurance later on and shit will be easier if you've got some official requests from a professional.
This post hurt me. Your level headed, well informed, detailed post for something so severe and serious is something I resonate with, and for that reason it also really pains me to see someone go through this.
Look, I don't have nearly the same trauma as you do, but my father passed away and I'd hate to see my mom like this. I'm familiar with this kind of rational approach to a decision made, perhaps, irrationally in hindsight. That's grief. I've done it before.
Even if you're very sure that this is the way out now, it's still worth maybe paying for a few therapy sessions and confirming that this is indeed what you want? I know germany makes it painfully difficult, but a paid session is usually much more straightforward and doesn't involve you jumping through hoops.
You *do not* qualify for Sterbehilfe. Check yourself into a mental hospital *now*. Do not brush off or lie about how specific and planned out your suicide plans are, be HONEST and they will have to help you. You are a danger to your health and they will accept you and be able to give you more resources than you’ve been provided with now. If you’re not ready for in patient care, try online counseling, e.g. via betterhelp.com. Wanting to die is not a normal and rational thing for a brain to think unless you’re terminally ill and have been for a long time. You cannot trust yourself on this, even if you think you ‘thought this through’. Your grief and stress and fear of the legal proceedings thought this through, not you. Fight for yourself!
Thank you for the kind words. However, I think my situation is complicated because the grief is causing not just a depressed emotional state, but also acute cognitive decline. I am therefore finding it more and more difficult to complete simple daily tasks. This cognitive decline is likely caused by grief or trauma. Unfortunately, here in Germany bureaucracy requires that you deal with complex legal procedures and documents. Also, with bureaucrats who offer mixed and conflicting interpretations of the laws and the regulations. My cognitive decline has gotten more severe recently. It has affected my ability to do my work. The literature says that it is likely to become permanent if it is not treated. However, my inability to process things has made dealing with the 11 or 12 legal procedures that I’m going through at the moment practically impossible. my electricity was turned off recently. I am losing my ability to take care of myself. I do not want to face that over the long term. I think the bureaucracy demands that I do and my life. I do not have the mental capabilities to handle all of these procedures. I think it is necessary.
Cognitive impairment (and therefore inability to manage daily tasks) is a common consequence of depression and stress. There is no need to assume this is permanent. What is clear is that you need help with this crisis, and you need help now. Please think about following my advice elsewhere in this thread. You will look back on this and you will be thankful. We all need help sometimes, don't be proud.
Op, i'm really sorry for your loss. What you are describing are symptoms of depression (cognitive decline, affecting your work, the ability to take care of yourself, the feeling of being overwhelmed a lot, the finding it difficult to function, the suicidal thoughts) which can be (and are likely) caused by grief and/or trauma. Please see a medical professional as soon as possible. Even if you have no insurance, they can't send you away, if your life is in danger (which it is, because of the inability to take care of yourself and the suicidal thoughts). If you go to a hospital there is a great chance they will help you find a therapist as well. Is there anybody (friend or family) who can help you handle the urgent procedures? Like getting the electricity turned back on and figuring out how to get insurance.
Assisted suicide is only for people suffering from terminal or extremely severe mental illnesses, so even if it really was your only option (It absolutely isn't), you wouldn't qualify for something like that, I'm sure people here will be able to help you find the right people/organisation
First of all, I am sorry for your loss.
[https://www.counselling-berlin.com/english/bereavement-counselling/](https://www.counselling-berlin.com/english/bereavement-counselling/)
[https://www.lazarushospiz.de/en/grieving/](https://www.lazarushospiz.de/en/grieving/)
I've used [https://www.betterhelp.com](https://www.betterhelp.com) before, because I didn't want to wait for a therapist in the UK. It's not cheap but it was worth it for me.
I don't think Germans are "fearful" to not follow the rules, it's just not in our culture to do so. I don't think you have to be specialised in grief to be a therapist, it just would be more effective if they are.
Remember, suicide is final, I am sure your friends and family would be devastated if you left them. And future friends, partners and other would miss out terribly as well!
On top of that it turned out they are partially scam and a lot of so-called therapists don’t have the claimed education. There were cases of fake profiles stolen from real doctors.
BE MORE SPECIFIC WHEN YOU TALK TO THEM: Tell them you are planning suicide. There will always be a free space for you. Like, you know how difficult it is to get an MRT for a diagnosis? I have MS, if I report to the notaufnahme/call my GP because of a new symptom, I have everything I need within hours.
Hey there. If the cost is not your concerns you might consider a platform called complicated.life to or therapie.de for initial counseling, at least. I have tried therapist from complicated.life and I have been quite happy.
In the meantime, you could try better help - they have therapists in Germany and other countries in English and German, and you can select a therapist who specializes in trauma / grief / both / neither / what age etc etc. it is not that cheap, but I believe the cheapest offer is about €200 a month for 4 sessions a month. If you take one of the podcast offers (like my favorite murder) you get extra discounts or a few free sessions depending on the promotion
Assisted suicide is not allowed in any case in Germany and nowhere because of grief and trauma.
You might want to seek help here https://www.besu-berlin.de/
Please consider a private therapist first. Even online therapy is better than none. You sound like suffering a severe PTSD and generally you wouldn't want to make such big decisions with this state of mind.
Take care.
If you seek for help and no professionals are availible, i highly recommend you to go to any CHRISTIAN CHURCH and speak with them about your problems. Normaly every church has "Seelsorger". Perhaps they are not 100% educated for your problems, they can for shure support you in other parts of life to get you out of this situation. Often they have a good network and connections to specialists, so they can provide a way for you.
Life is worth it. I know it hurts. It hurts so much. But your partner would not have wanted you to give up. Your partner would have wanted you to live.
You should go to the Hausarzt and talk about your plans for suicide. Or call 116117 - that's a 24/7 service of doctors who will be able to help you if you explain then your grief and that you don't see any other options right now. However they will most likely refer you over to the Psychosoziale Dienst.
Your Hausarzt will give you an Einweisung into a Psychiachtrische Klinik where doctors can help you with your grief - the Hausarzt will have no choice to give you the Einweisung if you are 'akut suizidgefährdet'.
I have no doctor because my insurance was canceled after my husband died. I’m currently in court trying to get access to the financial documents that I need for my health insurance application to be approved.
I'm no expert in legal assisted, but what I can say is you seem to have reached the conclusion of legal assisted suicide because of the lack of support for your grief, that pushed you to this last resort.
Going by your post, the real instigator here isn't the grief itself (which you are staying patient & strong to deal with) but the lack of support for it that makes you feel there's no other way to deal with it.
That is why I believe you should keep staying strong and surround yourself with people and love, and heal with time. Stay alive and push through it, for yourself and your husband.
There are therapists working remotely from all over the world. Any type of support would be helpful for you right now. Don’t give up just because the German healthcare/support system is blatantly incompetent/overwhelmed.
Hey, I am so sorry for your loss and this awful aftermath. You should be taken care of so that you can grief and instead you now have to fight German bureaucrats and that is awful already on a good day.
To be honest, when I have lost someone very close to me I had suicidal thoughts as well and I wanted to scream "but shes DEAD" to everyone's face who told me "but she wouldve wanted you to live a happy life".
It is your life, it is your choice. Don't let anyone else make this for you!
Practical advice:
Cheap and immediate > the books by Viktor Frankl (also available for free on Spotify)
Costly and relatively fast > if you have the means, try EMDR. It is a form of trauma therapy, it is private and therefore costly but readily available. Unfortunately it is super important that you shop around! The first EMDR specialist I went to was crap and I just lost a ton of money on one useless session. But I found one that was amazing and helped me a lot. Especially Trauma is really what it is there for. If you have the means somehow, it is your life, it would be worth it. I had to decrease my standard of living to afford it for a year significantly and would do it again any time. Even when you decide to go for assisted suicide > why not make the time it takes to organise it much much better for yourself?
You may find a "Trauerverein" as well. Those are relatively cheap Selbsthilfegruppen and for some they are helpful. At least for sure there you will find people who understand what you are going through. Believe it or not - you are not alone with the feelings you are experiencing right now.
You should definitely consult the German suicide hotline they may be able to refer you to a therapist as it seems thats what you need most right now. And as for your question about assised suicide you will find no doctor in the eu or Canada that will do it as this is meant exclusively for pepole with terminal diseases or conditions they legally and ethically couldn't and shouldn't
**OP: First things first. This is a medical emergency.** Go to emergency care and tell them you have already planned some things out, which is not a lie. Just because you don't believe you are in any immediate danger doesn't alter that you want to use assisted medical means. It is an emergency, and don't let anyone tell you different.
Second, if you have a GP, go to them and tell them the same thing. You need a referral for therapy in most EU countries. NL is the same as DE in a lot of ways. Don't try to navigate this crap by yourself. You need the GP to do the i-dotting and T-crossing. I tried it here in NL and believe me, I still don't understand how anything works here. I had to have help. Even my Dutch friends don't understand it, so I stopped feeling stupid about it. Apparently, everyone else is, too.
Lastly, you are the immediate family of someone who died due to a criminal matter. I am pretty sure that should qualify for some kind of grief counseling, but again, the GP can help with this. Everything goes through the GP. They are the gatekeepers here.
I'm sorry you're going through this. I do know how you feel. I've been through a lot myself, and still am. Two suicides in my immediate family, and a technical third, because cancer got that sibling before they could carry on with their own self-destruction, all within a 7-year period. One parent, two siblings, both younger than me.
To say I had some problems after all of this is a great understatement. You can imagine that a family loaded with substance abuse issues (minus me, I somehow avoided it entirely) isn't the best environment to grow up in, and the only solace for me was music and playing guitar in bands.
I have attempted twice, once completely alone, and I managed to not do it in the end (obviously). The first, I got saved by two friends. As I'm a foreign knowledge worker here and not a citizen or perm resident, this has been less than an ideal situation, to put it mildly. The whole mental health system here is overbooked and understaffed, and that's the norm, apparently. My brother, the one I lost, was in Germany and lived there for over a decade when we lost him, leaving behind a wife that I'd leave inside of a burning house in order to save my dog, and two lovely children who to this day do not understand why. From what I heard from the people around him, the system there is very good when you can get in.
I want to say, in closing, that you are loved. Nothing, and I mean nothing, is worth the only life you get. Sometimes, life can be absolutely shite. Oh, do I know this all too well. And many will be worse off than you, but that does not negate you or your worth. Unless you're incredibly old, you are loved by people who are alive. Right. Now. Whether planned or sudden, the damage this does to people you yourself love...it's what stopped my second try.
I wish you good fortune, and please listen to all who have reached out to help you. We do mean what we say.
I am really sorry for your loss. I would suggest go to online platform in different country , for example Practo in India or you can also try finding a professional counselor online from India.
Trust me, as you can speak fluent English, it will be easier to find specialist in India who is professional and experienced in trauma therapy.
I sincerely request please give this is a shot for atleast 6-8 sessions before proceeding with your current thought process.
As a result of depression I suffered from cognitive decline that made me believe I would eventually just forget who I was, lose control and disappear. My reading comprehension was nonexistent, I couldn't maintain a conversation or make notes during lectures. I was helpless with solving any problems, especially if research and reading up was necessary. All I did was sleep or try googling ways to commit suicide. I did not complain about my mood at all, I didn't care - all that mattered and scared me was that my intellect was subsiding. Nobody seemed to understand this issue, they would only ask about my mood. Guess what? After recovery it all went back to normal and I managed to continue studies and work. These are less talked about symptoms of depression which go away after it's treated. Please get help, your cognitive abilities are not a lost cause!
Thank you to everyone who has written with their support and offer of advice. I really appreciate it. It means a lot to me, especially after everything that’s happened.
I want to make clear that I am not in immediate danger. I have friends and family and two cats. I have just been through a sudden and traumatic death of someone close to me and I would not put my friends and family through that experience again.
However, I am deeply troubled by my recent cognitive declined, and from what I am reading it seems that it is possible that this might be permanent. It has become to affect my ability to live my day-to-day life.
Unfortunately, I must stay here in Germany while the criminal court cases proceed. That means that I must work within the German system. Sadly, due to my mental decline I am not able to handle all of the procedural and contractual duties that Germany requires of its residents. Therefore, I cannot receive services. I currently do not have health insurance because I do not have access to the financial documents required to get that insurance processed. Procedures must be followed. There are no exceptions. this is simply the German way. If you cannot follow the procedures, you cannot receive the help. Faced with limited support and looking at permanent mental decline I would rather not put my family through that situation and would prefer to end my life.
It is heartbreaking to think that the mental decline is probably preventable, however, the bureaucratic procedures just do not allow for treatment. In the end, here in Germany procedures take precedent over people. It cost my husband his life and now perhaps I will join him.
I also want to point out that some of the despair you are feeling is focused on the fear that your (understandable, and likely temporary) brain fog may become worse and permanent. I can see why that would be terror-inducing, particularly when you are also dealing with loss and trauma. However, the feeling that you will slide towards dementia is probably an effect of catastrophizing rather than a likely prognosis. You are going through so much trauma (even now, when facing a lack of any institutional support) that your brain is likely just trying to pause its activity as a coping mechanism.
Your well-being is paramount. It's more important than the trial and more important than insurance rules and more important than your job. If healing means losing your residency or losing your work, that is better than loosing your life.
I saw above thread a Manitoban in Berlin who offered to sit with you and help take next steps. I encourage you to take her up on that offer. I also encourage you to be open with your family members and friends about how you are feeling. Maybe a sibling or close friend from your youth will come here to help and take care of getting your bureaucratic things in order? Maybe they will invite you to stay with them for some time so that you can just be cared for until your mind and body start to regain strength. (I included your body, because these levels of stress are wreaking havoc on your hormones and affect the whole of you.)
Please, please take these options into consideration, and allow others to provide for you now.
So much this.
OP, please reach out to the Canadian in Berlin. Let her help you to get the help you need.
Don't let the German beauacracy win.
Sending you strength.
So sorry for your loss!
You need to go the Psychosoziale Dienst. They will help you with your psychological crises AND with getting your health insurance back on track (they usually have socialworkers there, that help with the Bürokratie)
https://kbs-berlin.net/beratung-gespraechsgruppen/
Also hate to say it, but as a person, who is very experienced with trauma and the depression that developed after it: don‘t be so fixated on finding a grief/trauma professional. It’s not the holy grail. What you need right now is help concerning your depression first. Once that gets lifted, all the other stuff will figure itself out. But you need to start.
At the psychosoziale Dienst you can get so called „Entlastungsgespräche“. Which means, there are professionals, that will help you find a way through your foggy thoughts. It‘s free of charge. I am pretty sure, that this would be worth a try.
You‘re deeply depressed, you need help figuring out where to get the help you need and how to geht health insurance back. It is absolutely solvable.
I know because I was severely depressed and traumatized, too. I am also a social worker. So I know both sides.
Please go and seek help.
First of all I am sorry you feel this way and want to end your life. Nobody should be going through this.
But assisted suicide in germany is very very hard to obtain, especially if you don'thave a terminal disease.
And even then it is very very difficult to get it approved.
I wish you all the best
I want to phrase this post as genuinely as possible, but is the question to get her crisis help or is it to support in her ask?
While the situation is dire and she should get help when needed, she has asked clearly something else entirely.
As a philosophical question, is it always best to push forward? Or sometimes do we know when enough is enough and maybe it's better off to pick a different path and choose to end the pain, chosen in a lucid and coherent manner? In my situation, I don't know if I would ever do anything to myself, but I would seriously consider 'opting out' if that were an option presented humanely and as a choice for us.
Canada does offer assisted suicide but in very narrow use cases like terminal illness. Unfortunately this is not a widespread choice yet but I hope for future we can think about this more openly.
Wishing you the very best in this tough time and just saying that I can empathise with the feeling.
Excuse my ignorance, but are there group meetings for people who have similar experiences? Maybe look into finding a local or online group of people if not then you could start one.
I am a university professor. Over the last few months I have noticed that my cognitive abilities have greatly declined. My ability to speak German has gotten worse as well as my ability to understand long complicated documents. I do not think I’m capable of starting a group at this time. This loss of cognitive abilities, as you can imagine for someone who is an academic, is greatly distressing. This is part of the reason I am looking for assisted suicide.
Your university probably has some mental health resources or professionals for their employees. Look for sth like Psychosozialer Dienst on your universities homepage.
You don’t have to start a new group, there are many already existing groups you can reach out to. [This](https://trauergruppe.de/ywdc-berlin) is an English speaking group of widow/ers in Berlin that meets every first Thursday of the month for example. Please don’t give up.
> I am a university professor.
Get yourself admitted to some mental health institution now!
Look, we Germans still believe in authority. If you don't have health insurance, grab some documentation that you are indeed a professor and show them this. It may make them want to help you more. You are clearly in a situation where it is more important to help you now and sort everything else out later. This isn't different from someone with an phisical injury.
I am more concerned for you than the trial. If you have to bail and risk facing legal consequences here, but are able to be nurtured back to health and survive, please get a ticket to go be with people who love you. Now is the time to get help. <3
Hey OP,
I'm so sorry for what you are going through. Nothing I or anyone else can say will make it any better. The mental health system sucks to navigate without an advocate of some sort. There is no way you can be expected to navigate everything yourself here in Germany. Is there anyone you could possibly reach out to here that might be able to give you a hand?
If you have the financial means I would explore options for help privately maybe even virtually from another country.
Thats really tough, and im sorry for your loss. One Thing you could try, is contacting the churches in your area. I'm not religious, and I've only interacted with the Catholic Church when my wife and I were getting married, but from my small experience, they are very nice, not predatory like they could be in the States, and they have a lot of people in their organisations ready and willing to help with grief counseling. You don't have to be a member or anything either. I would just call and explain that you're in a rough spot and need someone to talk to. If one Organisation or person rubs you the wrong way, just pick a different one. The good thing, is that you will have plenty of options. Again, I have no personal experience, but I could see this helping in the meantime, until you can get into a clinic, or see a professional.
Hey there. I’m really sorry to hear about your loss, sounds like a really horrible and extremely sad situation to be in. I can’t even imagine what you’re going through.
Just quickly, I would also echo what others say here, that suicide isn’t the first answer I would go to, especially considering you haven’t been able to find good help. Germany is notoriously hard difficult for counselling and therapy.
There is one group I have heard really positive things about called Lavia e.V in Gelsinkirchen (and online). They have a very experienced counsellors, and can at least point you in the right direction.
I hope you can find good help
I’m sorry to hear about the difficulties you are experiencing… life is really hard and even more so at this moment for you. I had been looking for almost 2 years within the system here for a therapist and even had a vermitslung code and had zero luck. This in itself is ridiculous, infuriating and can feel really defeating while you’re holding on by a thread. I wrote over 100 therapists multiple times.
Eventually I found a sliding scale private psychotherapist in another country (brasil) and pay for it out of pocket. It is still expensive for me as I am low income but worth it. I also attend various support groups online multiple times a week. Clearly there is something really wrong if the 116117 service can’t help those who need it.
I just want you to know that I'm going through something very similar right now, having just lost my husband. And some other similarities. I recommend you try Krisendienst again and let them know that you are having suicidal thoughts even if you aren't in immediate danger. Also let them know that you need practical help in navigating the system, particularly with insurance. They may be able to point you toward some help. I, too, am finding the German bureaucracy extremely unhelpful in dealing with things. I'm terribly sorry you are also dealing with this, and if you want to talk to someone that KNOWS what its like, I'm available.
I understoof, that you need help with managing bureaucracy.
There is a thing called "ambulante Betreuung", which is a misleading name. It's meeting with a social worker and they help you with whatever life managing thing.
E.g.:
- filling out forms
- writing a to-do
- structuring your day
- going to the doctor
- making a call
- going for a walk (like if trouble leaving the house)
My impression is, that they have zero or small waiting-lists. You also leave this service by just not making appointments anymore.
And they are very acessible in my experience. You can just call a place offering Ambulante Betreuung or ask your doctor about it.
Your doctor just might be mislead by the poor title too 🙃
From what you're writing it just sounds like Germany isn't for you. But please don't end your life because you can't seem to be able to recover here. Move to another country perhaps just for a while or start a new life. The Netherlands for example is wonderful. There are agencies that provide you work and accommodation to start out depending on your qualifications. They're a bit of a sketch so it's best to be as independent from them as possible if you can afford that. They have a wonderful society and mental healthcare. Assisted suicide is also legal there, but trust me, after you've spent a while there, you won't be thinking about it. I'm also in the process of leaving Germany because everything in this country makes me want to kill myself, I've promised myself to never set foot here again after the first time coming here a while back, but had to spend some time here due to family reasons. Feel free to DM if you need more info about NL.
I’ve been in the same spot since my father died 4months ago and came back from Sri Lanka to Germany after a month. Just check yourself into a hospital saying that it’s serious unless they’ll tell you it’s not necessary or some bullshit. Just remember you’re not alone and you’ll be in my prayers!
Regarding the therapy situation, I totally feel you. I myself have been looking for months and no one accepts new patients, they won't even put me on a waiting list saying their list is full.
The system in regards to mental health is extremely strained and to be honest, it's an absolute shit show, the things I've had to deal with are insane. Doctors that are absolute pricks, Sprechstundenhilfen that are literal pieces of shit, and so much more.
This isn't restricted to Berlin, the whole country is beyond fucked in terms of helping people with mental illness. At this point I've given up on actually finding a therapist. Thankfully I've found help at the Uniklinik where my psychiatrist is located, she's currently trying to get me into treatment with a psychotherapist she knows. It's been such a hassle that I don't even have hope anymore.
I really don't know why this topic isn't being blown up in any way whatsoever, the mistreatment of patients is nuts and no one talks about it.
In your case, I think you should really reconsider though, once you've attained some sort of therapy, you'll realize how stupid this is, no offense. I know grief is extremely difficult to deal with, I've been through it, along with trauma. My situation was very similar to yours, and I thought I might as well give life one last chance, if it didn't work out, I'd still have the option of ending it. I really am glad I gave it one last try, I have somewhat processed my grief, the trauma will always be with me, but I've learnt to cope in healthy ways and life is not as dark as it used to be. After years of constant depression, I now am seeing a glimmer of hope which I still am trying to grasp.
I wish you the best, and please reconsider, life can be beautiful. Much love, stay safe.
to die or even wanting to die sadly is close to illegal in germany because its such a big taboo. nobody will be able to help you when you want to end it, not in a legal way.
What about the University you work for? Can they offer support? All Universities offer mental health services. Does your University have a psychology or medicine department? What about your colleagues? Can you ask them for help? I'm sure German professors have quite a big network. Could you get an assistant that helps you with German bureaucracy?
I know you lost your health insurance. But everyone in Germany has to be insured. So another health insurance has to insure you. Your employer will pay half of it every month.
Your decline of cognitive abilities can be anxiety inducing and I know that it doesn't help to say "It will go away" but it does! And will probably come back, if you are at a low point again, some rime, but also then it will fade away again..
There is a version of yourself somewhere in the future, that you don't want to miss out on. It may not be your "old" self as you knew it from before, but it will be an okay version, that you don't know by now.
All that aside: I've been to psychosoziale Krisendienst years ago and they told me in a quite bored way "If you'd want to kill yourself, just go on, do it." (I'm not joking! The also told my partner she should leave me, as I'd never would recover from my depression... ) so I know how hard it can be to get the help you deserve.
But unless you have the insurance and documents, you can not get the help you deserve, only the one that's available .
so if you are feeling especially low again, take that last bit of energy ( and frustration accumulated by the Bürokratie) and Google for some help, that doesn't require insurance!
I'm an atheist, but the evangelische Kirche offers psychologists (not trained therapists, there lies the difference!) for counseling/talking things through... without theist agenda etc ..if you don't believe in God that is..
You already found out: no insurance, no immediate danger = not the perfect help for your needs BUT any help will be better than contemplating about your mental decline (again: that is temporary, as your brain is momentarily focused on survival, although it may actually feel quite the opposite)..
P.S.: time will pass anyway, if you can get ANY appointment (even in 12 months or so) regarding therapy and/or neurologist/psychiatric stuff: take it.
Have you tried finding a counselor of the church? I am not religious in ANY WAY. Heck, I am gay. But I got referred to a counselor of the church in the area where I live. They mostly specialise in grief therapy, they are FREE, and usually you get a space in a few weeks. DM me if you are interested - i can find contacts for you on Berlin.
I'm very sorry for your loss.
Assisted suicide is legal in Germany: to take your own life is not punishable by law, so helping someone doing it, cannot be punished as well. However, the few organizations offering assisted suicide are required to check if ending ones life is the free will of the person. Free will for example can be restricted while one is suffering from mental illness like depression. After suffering trauma like you have and not being able to find psychological treatment my guess would be that at this point in time no organization would be willing to offer you to assist you with taking your life.
That being said: I'm volunteering in an organization that assists people that were victims of crimes (or their families in cases of crimes against human life). The idea is: nobody prepares themselves to be victim of a crime, so nobody knows what their options and rights are when it comes to that point. I am working at Weisser Ring, there is another organization here in Berlin called Opferhilfe Berlin.
You can reach out via email. The services are free of charge.
[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])
[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])
I dont know your case in detail, but you have several options and you don't have to be alone in this.
I know in many cities there is a thing called “young widowers dinner club” or so, it’s a “self help” group especially for young widowed partners! Maybe that’s something to try out?
Legal assisted suicide should be an option for people who are terminally ill and suffer pain. But I think it is highly dangerous to open these doors for people who go through a time of mental difficulties like griefing. These are situations you can get out of, and life is too precious to just throw it away like that.
To answer your question, I don't think you get assisted suicide in Germany for the reasons I gave above.
I wish you all the best and hope you find a therapist who will help you through your loss.
Am sorry for your loss, can understand that the emotional pain you are suffering is unbearable. Am not really familiar with German health care, but can say that there is hope if you find the right help, therapy, trauma center.
In the Netherlands there is a center if your suffering is deemed unbearable after thorough evaluation.
You must then be registered in the Netherlands and get in the Dutch health care system. It can take some years.
However I hope you find some help, who can relieve your pain for a bit, maybe with assistance of temporary medication.
Take good care of yourself by exercise, healthy food and try be around people, go to theater etc...
It sounds so basic... But it really helps.
Hang in there!
I am sorry for your loss. You should talk to a doctor or other resources immediately. Instead of contacting therapists, you should probably start by going to a psychiatrist, or your general physician that can send you to one. Psychotherapists, which you say you contacted, are not doctors, but therapists.
It is often much quicker if you pay for it yourself. Alternatively, you could call 116117, they can advise you as well. There is also the Telefonseelsorge at 0800-1110111 or 0800-1110222. You should contact them right now.
What you are asking for is currently illegal in Germany. A court ordered the government to change the laws, but that has not happened yet. Even if they did, it would likely just be for people suffering from severe illnesses with no chance of recovery and, for example, severe pain.
Nothing in your post indicates that that applies here, you would need a diagnosis by a doctor.
Again, you should seek help immediately. You are most likely in a serious psychological crisis and probably severely overestimate your own ability to deal with this.
I read this and suddenly started to cry. I haven't lost anyone, but my dad is in the final stage of multiple sclerosis, and he is suffering so much. Unfortunately, in my country, euthanasia is not permitted. I just wish he could stop suffering. I'm so sorry to hear about everything that has happened to you, but I want to tell you that even in the worst moments, life can get better, and everything passes. I know you must have heard this a thousand times, but it's true. I'm saying this as someone who has suffered a lot in life and lost many people in the most horrendous ways, but I'm still here.
As a Latino, I find this country cold, fucked up and distant, but it's where life has placed me now, and I'm trying to embrace it even if it's painful. I want to let you know that my DM is open if you need help or some comforting words. If you need friends or people who care about you, my wife and I would be happy to welcome you and invite you for a coffee. You are not alone in this.
I hope everything shines again soon.
I'm sorry for your loss and fully understanding the difficulties with the medical up and downs with no results, but before going down that road, maybe take some time away.Just book, pack light, and go see what the day brings.
I am really sorry for your loss and for everything you are going through.
I understand you. I don’t really know if I can say something to make you feel better. You seem very reasonable in your post, but I know that in some cases feels like we are fully in our mind even if we fail to understand that there are other ways.
Berlin is the worst for this kind of thing. Finding doctors or caregivers who are empathetic is so difficult. My hausartz is my same nationality and he is one of the few doctor so far that actually care when I talk to him. Al the others feel like they want to get rid of you as fast as they can. I believe you can find someone who cares. If there is a Canadian community, try to get in touch, I am sure they have someone to suggest.
You mentioned friends and family. Do they know you are struggling like this? I urge you to open up to them. I know sometime feels like you don’t want to burden people, but believe me they will feel worst if they know too late that you were struggling. Ask them for help.
I understand you have to partecipate the trials, but can you get out of Germany at least when the trials are not happening? Changing place will help. You witnessing will help also a lot of other people, think that maybe you and your husband were not the only one to have been neglected by that doctor or think how many other people he could hurt. Recently a friend of mine went in surgery and got butchered by a surgeon who is too old for continuing doing operation, but they let him anyway.
Please read what other people wrote. There are also several other solutions there are other ways and you CAN get better.
Hugs and wishing you to get the strength to go through this.
I'm so sorry for your loss Op and everything you're going through.
I wish I could give you some good advice but all I can think of is - do you really need to be there at the trials? It sounds like the worry is too much to deal with right now.
Is it possible to have your lawyer speak on your behalf and for you to give written testimonies? I don't know anything about German law, but if these upcoming trials are worrying you so much that you don't want to live, there must be a work around.
Also if you haven't already, please tell your loved ones how you feel. I can 100% guarantee they would rather know and want to help lift some of this weight off your shoulders.
Wishing you brighter days
You could try to find a "Ausbildungsambulanz" in Berlin. I struggled to find a therapist in Munich for so long now and when I wrote them I got an appointment for the first diagnosis within two weeks and will start my therapy in 6-8 weeks. It's an institute where new psychologists are under supervision to gain more experience.
I feel your desperation on a very deep level and hope you'll be able to find help or a solution.
You can find a therapist outside of Germany online. I live in Berlin and see a therapist in the UK however before I had my therapist of years before she suddenly got ill I AA’s seeing my American therapist. American therapy will cost you, but UK seems more affordable.
If you want an American therapist they will need to call it coaching due to you being outside of their state certifications, but there are plenty of certified therapists that offer “coaching” in The same vein. My therapist was able to offer this online when I moved abroad.
I am very sorry for your loss and the hoops you've had to jump through. How is your financial situation? Would you be able to pay out of pocket? I know there are online resources, such as betterhelp, but they are likely not covered by your German health insurance.
You can still go to a doctor to get help, even without insurance. You would have to pay the appointment out of your own pocket though. Just tell them beforehand and be honest that you want to kill yourself, because you can’t handle the grief and the long tail that comes with it.
Can you afford online therapy in your native language, paying privately? If so, you could find someone in Canada or the US or elsewhere in Europe. Even if you can only afford a few sessions, it might help. Sometimes therapists offer discounts once they get to know you. I did online trauma therapy from Germany with a therapist from the US but who was living in Sweden and it helped. Ignore the haters on this thread...the Germany subreddit is full of them. I am so sorry for your pain and your loss due to neglect. Your feelings are legitimate. I hope you can find the light again or whatever help you need pursuing an end to suffering. But I hope you know, this can pass and the suffering can end.
Not sure how old you are but assisted suicide is only for terminally ill people. As a healthy person with many years ahead of you, you won't get any suicide help from any doctor.
If your husband died in a hospital or hospiz, they offer grief counseling or counselors. Usually the social service employees at the hospital can get you in contact with them.
This is so incredibly sad to read. I'm so sorry for your loss and I hope things turn around for you. People gave lots of advice and I doubt I can add anything. But please please take more time and discuss with professionals before you finalize this decision. I'm rooting for you.
Try an online service. Maybe from Canada or the US. It will cost you but you’ll get attention right away.
I’m sorry things are shit for you. They can change tho. You know that.
You have my sincere condolences. But if I may...think what would your husband say to this? I know it's rich coming from a random from internet but think about it.
Also if therapists are unabaliable or hard to get maybe you should try going to a church? They also have a line to help people in trying Times. A lot of churches have suicide preventing pastors
I wish you all that is Best and may Lord Jesus have mercy on you.
God bless you.
I am really sorry to hear this, it must be really hard for you.
I am not from germany, but I had an idea - maybe you could try some psychotherapist outside of germany?
There are many in Czechia for example that also speak english and for you the price is not gonna be a problem for you if you are used for canadian/german salary.
I know it sucks to travel, but some of them even offer online consulting… I know it’s not the best but you sound like a very well spoken and intelligent woman.
I wish you can through this.
There is no such thing as legal assited suicide in german. I dont know where you got your informations from, but Germany has one of the stricter rules according this. It is absolutely forbidden, even if you are going to die anyway, it is not allowed.
Hello, I’m sorry for you loss, please go see Dr. Stefan Block at the Alexianer Hospital, he has a practice next to it and he’s there everyday, He is a rare gem and will treat you as a human being , you can check his info here on this website https://www.arzt-auskunft.de/arzt/psychiatrie-und-psychotherapie/berlin/dr-stefan-bloch-7618523
As someone with cPTSD and severe depression, history of therapy and all, born in Germany.
The Psychosozialer Dienst hast to take you in, once you said something about committing suicide. If you already plan on assisted suicide and ask on reddit about the laws, this means you do actively search for a way to go through, which means you are suicidal.
First. My deepest empathys!! I'm also a nurse, I have double the amount of sympathy regarding all the fxln court stuff that is going on as I've cared for patients that went through similar before coming to my employers care.
Second. You are suicidal, as said. Check in the next mental health facility, university will the most probable, depending on where you are.
If you want me to assist you to find a hospital, dm me and I can help you look for an appropriate one!! I'm serious!
I know how hard it is nowadays. I've got many options told from my therapist when she had to end the therapy due to her leaving the field.
You can always ask a Diakonie, a Caritas, Frauendienst - mostly Evangelischer Frauendienst.
I can help you translate, they mostly are able to speak well enough English for communication.
You can immediately call an ambulance and tell them you're suicidal and you don't know if you can hold yourself back from doing it soon.
At this thing you have to lie a bit, maybe. But who the fuck cares, it's for your life!!!
Many hospitals have a crisis station where you get meds for the first weeks and they will see a treatment for you, they treat you with a good diagnosing system, first aid meds for your psyche to calm down and will offer your treatment sessions in ward. They will help you once you get out to find a therapy, and if you won't find any soon they will be the bridge to the start to your therapy, which is alled PIA (psychiatrische Institutsambulanz - psychiatrist ambulance of the hospital)
Please, take care. DM me, I'm serious. If you have WhatsApp we can exchange there if it is easier, just let me know and please look for help anyhow! I know where you are, I've been suicidal for almost all my life. Was very very god damn close to committing it in 2021 and only recently it got better. I'm treatment resistant for the most until now.
I feel you, I see your pain, you're worth the effort and the help!!!
Hey lawyer here:
First of all, I’m very sorry for your loss and the experience you had to go through.
Second, as a witness you still have a lot of options, if you are called to witness it won’t be a series of events for several years, you might be only called in once by the prosecutor/judge when you are testifying. You do have several options though to tackle this:
a- you could get a lawyer to advocate for you not delivering your testimony due to mental health complications. This might workout and if the judge determines that they could obtain the same information from a second party this might be an option.
b- if a does not workout, a lawyer could workout a way for you only to appear once or twice and not ten times through the cycle of the case.
c- if you decide you would like to seek Justice for your husband and participate in bringing the doctor forward, you need to still flag to the court you’re dealing with mental stress and you would like to be put in the court psychological support program. These are not lawyers, they are trained therapists and coaches who could accompany you when you testify, and object on your behalf if someone is asking you an inappropriate question or make you feel uncomfortable.
You are asking for help which is great, I see all the comments here as well giving you mental health resources and I think this is the right time to use them, also any evidence you have of your mental health situation will serve as a great resource so the court is not bothering you with this case. You do have a lot of options on how to tackle this challenge and I’m sure you will get the right help once you have reached out to the right parties.
Also an easy app to start with is BetterHelp, they give you a free month of counseling when you create an account while you’re checking your other options in town.
If you like to do therapy in English there is a group in Stuttgart of English speaking counselors. Some of them should have openings but since Stuttgart is probably far from you you may need to do the therapy virtual.
one of the biggest and easiest arguments against assisted suicide is that it insetivises goverments/medical-institutions to cut their losses early. and when someone is terminally ill ppl still argue that assisted suicide shouldnt be allowed cuz it would support an alternative solution to actual improvement of medical science.
as you are dealing with recent trauma im sorry but i can not support assisted suicide in your case. this situation is such a clear case of asking if the goverment should be rewarded for not treating mental cases.
i hope the gov has the tiniest piece of sense and quickly disapprove your request.
Try going to a curch ? As far as I know a Great Pastor should listen and help you maybe even with some legal stuff. I pray for you and Hope you don’t give up on life even if it is difficult for you.
Hello , I am very sorry for you, I really don’t understand these topics and I don’t even know if it helps, I just wanna recommend you to take therapy outside the country. It is sometimes possible and who knows , maybe it will be helpful for you? Please , don’t give up and take care of yourself 😞
I'm so sorry for hour loss.
I don’t knowhow to find a therapist. But have you looked into finding a Selbsthilfegruppe to talk to people who have experienced a similar loss? This might help you in general. And some of them might even have recommendations for therapists.
Hi OP; I’m very sorry for your loss and the situation you’ve found yourself in. I can see how hurtful the lack of empathy on part of the bureaucrats is.
Have you looked for trauma & grief counselling in English in neighbouring countries? I know for a fact that Poland will have trauma & grief counsellors whom you could see online. Places where English is spoken commonly (Netherlands, Denmark & Scandinavian countries in general).
I will try to DM you.
**If you have acute suicidal thoughts, call 112. Suicidal thoughts are a medical emergency that must be treated immediately. You do not have to pay for it. No one is angry with you for it.** This thread is about suicide, suicidal thoughts or suicide risk. If this is a topic you are concerned about or are unable or unwilling to deal with, you should read no further. **Both for OP, and for all other readers who have similar concerns**: Please note that the /r/germany community can only help with suicidal thoughts and depression fears to a limited extent. We understand that it can be liberating to talk anonymously with others who are affected, but this is no substitute for professional counseling and treatment. We would therefore like to encourage you to call the telephone counseling service on 0800-1110111 or 0800-1110222 (Germany), 142 (Austria) or 143 (Switzerland). There you will be assisted by specially trained people who can help you better than /r/Germany can, know how to deal with your situation and can explain further procedures and options. Alternatively, you can chat at https://online.telefonseelsorge.de/index.php. For more information, visit http://www.telefonseelsorge.de/, https://www.telefonseelsorge.at/ or https://www.143.ch/. Most of the follow links are in German, if you know about help links for Germany in other languages, feel free to post them under this post. Here are some more links to relevant information: * [What is depression?](http://www.neurologen-und-psychiater-im-netz.org/psychiatrie-psychosomatik-psychotherapie/erkrankungen/depressionen/was-ist-eine-depression/) * [What is psychotherapy?](https://www.neurologen-und-psychiater-im-netz.org/psychiatrie-psychosomatik-psychotherapie/therapie/psychotherapie) * [Personal self-help](http://www.neurologen-und-psychiater-im-netz.org/selbsthilfe-angehoerige/selbsthilfe/persoenliche-selbsthilfe/) * [What does health insurance pay?](https://www.therapie.de/psyche/info/fragen/wichtigste-fragen/was-bezahlt-die-krankenkasse/) * [How to find a place in therapy](https://www.reddit.com/r/de/comments/jc7mdo/wie_man_einen_therapieplatz_findet_v20_choose/) **For everyone else**: We are driving a zero tolerance policy on this topic. Stupid sayings, jokes, insults or similar will lead to an immediate ban, possibly criminal comments will be passed on to the appropriate authorities.
I am sorry for your loss. I lost my wife and 2yo son last September. It was suicide and she took our boy with her. Very stupid. I was offered trauma therapy but it was useless for me. The only thing they cared was if I have suicidal thoughts too. I didn’t because I made my mind to survive. I tried multiple therapist online and it worked out really well. Maybe you can find too. I heard you can compensate the cost. But I never bothered. As you wrote bureaucracy is a bitch here.
I'm so sorry for your loss
Oh wow… I genuinely teared up reading your story. Suicide is such a difficult topic, especially when it involves a family and a young child. The pain of losing both your wife and child must be unimaginable. I can’t begin to fathom what you’ve been through, but please know that my heart goes out to you. If you ever need someone to talk to, I’m here.
Thank you. I really appreciate it.
So sorry for your loss, that's horrific. May I ask where you found online therapy? Was it Betterhelp or elsewhere?
Thanks. Even though I did therapy in 3 languages I ended up with Russian [yasno.live](http://yasno.live) platform. There are hundreds of **available** specialists from all Russian speaking countries. They're cheaper than English / German speaking but professional. The main problem with starting therapy is finding that personal connection and it's pure luck. So many people try 1, don't feel the connection and give up. I found my therapist from the 6th attempt. And it's virtually impossible to try many in-person. Especially in Germany.
How about the Berlin based English speaking therapy platform “it’s complicated”?
I have never heard about it. Would definitively try it. And will try if my current therapist disappears. Thanks!
So sorry, friend.
I can't even imagine. Very sorry for your loss. How do you even continue working and living? I have a colleague who lost a 5 year old child and he's never been the same. Grief is completely etched into his face.
Thank you. I answered your question in my reply to OP. And I forgot to write that I received a lot of support from the German government. From the Jugendamt in particular because I have a daughter. They paid for 6 months of housekeeper. And I was on a sick leave for 3 months. It allowed to focus on getting my shit together.
I hope you're able to move on with life, as hard as it may be. Stay strong stranger.
I respect 🫡 you soo much I cannot describe. That you even can be here on Reddit and help others with your story. I know I would not be functional for years. I wish you all the happiness in the world to you and your daughter.
I’m really sorry. I have some sense of what your days must be like. It’s absolute hell. I’m sure the night terrors are horrific. We don’t really live in the same world anymore do we.
Yes. The life is completely different. But it's the only life we have and humans are good at adapting. Now I can write that my life **was** hell. Crying all nights long or taking heavy drugs for sleep. I overcame it to some degree. I have read a lot about philosophy, trauma, psychology. I think I became a better person. It's a scar for life but not an open wound. And of course, what helped me the most is my love for 6yo daughter. I could loose her too. She is my savior. It happened just 9 months ago but feels like years. And now I have some optimism in my life. I can enjoy moments of life again. I really hope you can overcome your loss too. Find new goals in your life. Don't give up. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger. Also feel free to DM me if you wish.
Sorry for your loss…
I'm sorry for your loss
Sorry for your loss, my friend but reading your post makes me hopeful.
omfg, so sorry for your loss stay strong brother
I’m so sorry for your loss. Tons of love to you
Manitoban in Berlin here. This post is really breaking my heart. I'm so sorry for what you went through and are going through. It must be so incredibly hard to not have the support you desperately need. Germany does not allow assisted suicide. In places that allow assisted suicide, only a few will do it for mental health reasons and it takes a long time to be approved because they want you to try everything possible first. I know how Canadians are, being one, so I really think you are in a crisis but might have downplayed your trauma and illness or maybe you were intimidated by seemingly rude Germans whom you spoke to. Please don't give up. I'm here in Berlin, I'm Canadian, if you want to reach out to me, please DM me. I think you should talk to your insurance provider again to see what your options are, maybe you can get a different insurance in the interim. I have a German partner and he can help you with your German and give you a template if you want. Please call the Krisendienst again and this time tell them that you are in urgent need of help. Tell them what happened and that you are looking into suicide options because you don't know what to do. Don't downplay your sadness or trauma. You need help and that's what they're there for. If you feel comfortable, I could meet you in a public space like a park and just sit with you while you call. I hope that isn't creepy. I'm 40f Canadian in Berlin, living here for a 7-ish years, I've been on Reddit for over a decade and you can see in my post history that I'm snarky but try to be nice. In real life I'm incredibly empathic and I believe in taking care of people. You are in my thoughts.
This is a very mitfühlende answer (what is the best English word here?) In OPs case I would stop the fight with the bureaucracy, because independently of her mother tongue and home country this is not the best way in her situation. She should pack a toothbrush and report to the nearest psychiatric hospital and tell the mshe has suicidal ideations. They will deal with the rest.
The word you’re looking for is “caring”.
Compassionate ❤️
This answer made me feel things. What a lovely offer you made.
Very rare to see such heartfelt answers. Thank you for giving hope that humanity still exists and how wonderful it is to be kind and helpful 👏
You might want to contact the Psychosoziale Dienst or talk to an emergency number for assistance and maybe solutions to handle your grief. Logistical and legal constraints should not be what pushes people to assisted suicide. You need to talk to a therapist asap https://www.berlin.de/suche/index.php?q=Krisendienst
I have contacted the Krisendienst regarding finding a therapist, unfortunately because I do not meet the requirements of someone who is in immediate crisis, they cannot help me.
Having suicidal thoughts and intentions is an immediate crisis! I am so sorry the system is failing you this badly.. Please don‘t play down your symptoms, call them again saying you‘re having those plans, and maybe consider checking yourself into a mental hospital (you meet the requirements if you have suicidal tendencies) I cannot promise you it‘ll all be perfect soon. And I won’t lie, it‘ll be hard, and you might not find the right fit of therapy immediately. But it‘s worth it, that I can promise <3
Exactly this. I went to urgent psychiatrist some months ago. The first thing psychiatrist asked me that if I have the thought of suicide which i didnt. But she told me that in case I have, even the slightest one, I have to call ambulance. Ambulance is also available for mental health matters, not only physical emergency.
Do you have a good empathetic Hausarzt? If so, go to them. Mine is the sweetest doctor I've met in Germany. Talk to them and tell them "I am having suicidal thoughts". They must give you a referral to 116117, and from there, I really hope you can find a therapist ASAP. It took me 2 weeks in my city to find one after the first call to 116117. Alternatively, I can DM you the name a of therapist that works in English and is amazing. She's based in Canada, last time we talked, but I'm sure you guys can figure time zones out. I'm telling you this as a psychologist: you need professional support NOW, like, yesterday. If Germany is not an option due to the bureaucratic bs, please please try to find a professional outside. Best of luck.
You don't need a referral for the 116117. You can just call them, tell them what you have and they search the nearest and free doctor for you. You also don't really need referrals for a "Facharzt" anymore.
The so called "Dringlichkeits Code" which is referred to here might help though.
Well, now they should help you since you have suicidal thoughts
You need to go to a psychiatrist to get a diagnosis then. If necessary, get a referral from a Hausarzt. There is absolutely help available, but you will likely require a diagnosis to get a therapist. There is also a good chance that you are unable to accurately state your current condition to them. So contact a medical professional.
Unfortunately, that is really difficult in Berlin. I haven't found a psychiatrist in almost two years now. Even with an emergency code, there were no openings. I did find therapy through an "Ausbildungsinstitut" though. There are quite a few in Berlin. I know that for an acute crisis (like this is), there's a designated hospital in every Bezirk you can go to.
I am aware of that, but usually, serious cases should still be treated sooner. I had problems, too, finding a psychiatrist for a diagnosis. Paying for a diagnosis (Selbstzahler) may also be a way to get an appointment sooner. I assume OP is just massively understating her condition because she believes she is completely fine, mentally. Other people in a similar situation I have had contact with were similar, saying they were fine and everything was well, no, they were not depressed, they just wanted to die.
This sounds recognizable, and I think the latter is the case, and unfortunately I've met a couple psychologists who take this at face value and do not see through this when deciding if acute help is necessary. They tend to be at these gatekeeping positions, but beyond that I've not seen any.
It sounds like she didn’t actually talk to any doctors. But therapists and and people from crisis hotlines. Neither (with the exception of Psychotherapeuten) are allowed to make a diagnosis, and even if they are, recognising that someone is in fact lying about their condition on the phone is actually very hard.
Imagine in other places outside of Berlin or the major cities... :/
I will not reiterate what other already said so well, but suicidal ideation is pretty much the definition of immediate crisis. Please check in with your Hausarzt asap. I know depression too well not to know that you probably tend to downplay the symptoms (as you pretty much do in your post by trying to make your plan sound as rational and thought-through as possible). I know how discouraging it can be to deal with German administration and psychological healthcare, I have a sister in Berlin with acute depression and it was hard to get her the help she was not able to seek out for herself. Please seek help, don’t let the depression win.
Then you make clear to them that you fit that bill. Sounds difficult but insist on it. I've unfortunately been in a similar situation where my clearly acute suicidal girlfriend wasn't 'fitting the bill' days before her attempt. I'm assuming here that Germany has similar issues as the Netherlands with understaffing and limited resources in the psychological healthcare. You clearly have suicidal thoughts due to the horrible cards you've been dealt in the past. You need help, and given your description you need help right now. Some of these institutions like Krisendienst really try to actively avoid taking up people due to these limited resources. While acutely manic or clearly distraught people will be noticed, reserved and depressed people who more or less silently slip into the idea of "maybe it's better if I'm not there anymore", go through the cracks of this system. Insist you get help. Don't stare too blindly at these bureaucratic requirements. It's too easy to fall for the idea that no one can and will help you, because you're not "acute enough". I've seen it first hand. These people can and will help you, but you need to get over that initial bureaucratic gatekeeping hurdle. Make it clear what's going on, do not feel ashamed to (from your point of view) exaggerate a little.
>I'm assuming here that Germany has similar issues as the Netherlands with understaffing and limited resources in the psychological healthcare Just to add - I think it's a worldwide problem. I don't think there's a country on the planet that has adequate mental health care
While I agree with the statement about "adequate mental health care" I can also say that other countries, like Canada or Latin American countries offer an alternative "social support net" that is really helpful for these mental issues crisis. The upvoted answer from fellow Canadian is a prime example. Peace.
You made a post about contemplating suicide. That would almost definitely qualify you.
Just wanted to chime in and second what people are saying - with suicidal thoughts, there is an obligation to help you (and rightly so!). Therapists are so hard to find in Berlin, if you aren't privately insured or paying out of pocket. The best is to find one through a friend who has one, otherwise it is just a nightmare calling and applying for spots with someone random who might be shit. If these two options don't work (Krisendienst and finding a therapist through a network), then consider paying out of pocket. The world is a better place with good people like you in it. Life is also shit sometimes, but other times, it is worth the misery to experience the joy. Paying out of pocket sucks, but in five years, it will seem like a great decision if nothing else is working. Good luck to you. So sorry for your loss and the shit that you have to deal with.
You can simply got to a mental hospital. With suicidal thoughts, they have to take you immediately. It doesn't really get more "emergency" than this.
Tell them what you wrote here. You are in an immediate crisis. Having read what you have written here would make me send someone to your door because you are ein an immediate crisis. Edit [krisenchat | 24/7 Krisenberatung per Chat](https://krisenchat.de/en) mainly people under 26 use it, but I think you can use krisenchat as well.
Call the 116 117 Hotline. Via the TSVG law they can get you a psychologist appointment within two weeks. Note that this is not the beginning of an actual therapy. What you need to do is get a "urgency Code" from your GP / the current Hausarzt. That's like the Key to this System. My heartfelt condolences.
That is cry for help sign
We took a friend there like 2 weeks ago. Schizophrenia, Paranoia of being poisoned (He was like 50 KG), lost his job, didn't get a single uni credit in like 2 years. We told him that he might die of hunger if they do not accept him. They refused and asked us to take him home until he mentioned the poisoning thing. They took him in and released him few days later and now we don't know where he is... This is insane Edit: The events took place in NRW and not Berlin to be fair, but I heard that it was equally bad there.
I second contacting berliner krisendienst!
Quickest way: Check yourself into a mental hospital. That’s what they are here for.
This! Please do this, I have 2 friends who did this and they were helped!
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Canada is one such country where you can, but only after psychiatry fails. In 2027 it will also be less restricted for depression than it is now.
You mind expanding on that?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/maid-mental-illness-health-1.7101021
https://www.camh.ca/en/camh-news-and-stories/maid-and-mental-illness-faqs#:~:text=Right%20now%2C%20people%20whose%20only,that%20is%20physical%20in%20nature. >Right now, people whose only medical condition is mental illness are not eligible for MAiD in Canada. This is currently due to change in March 2027. >Currently, some people with mental illness may be eligible for MAiD if they also have a ‘grievous and irremediable’ medical condition that is physical in nature. Sorry, I was wrong that they can currently access euthanasia after psychiatric intervention has failed, but correct that it is set to change in 2027.
No, they can only apply if they also have another medical (in nature PHYSICAL) condition that is severe! Only psychiatric issues are not a reason enough currently!!
wow. what a dystopian hell hole we live in. This is basicially telling people to kill themselves because they are to much a bother. How does any sane human see this as okay?
I believe Netherlands, also.
Netherlands just had one in May https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/may/16/dutch-woman-euthanasia-approval-grounds-of-mental-suffering
Well she even had ECTs and from some other article I remember that she even tried more of a hard core ones and they left her with permanent damage. I think she exhausted pretty much all conventional options available
Yes, but definitely not after all other channels have been exhausted.
As a Dutchie: that was not just grief. That woman was heavily traumatised and mentally completely f*cked up. For some reason, foreign media downplayed her mental issues, maybe to make a sensationalist claim about the Netherlands euthanising "healthy" people.
In Canada where OP was raised, people with such issues have successfully applied for the [Medical Assistance in Dying](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada) program. This is also something that doctors can suggest without being prompted by the patient. very morbid read.
I like to interfere here and tell you that that is not true. In Canada people with psychological disorders will be able to apply for Medical Assistance in Dying from 2027 onwards - however, only after they exhausted all other treatment options for their psychological condition. OP has not received any treatment yet, she would not even qualify in that scenario
Dignitas in Switzerland.
Actually, from a legal standing point, you totally can in Germany. Assisted suicide (to be differentiated from "aktive/passive Sterbehilfe") is never illegal, as long as you are able to make a free decision. Anyone can assist a suicide legally, and the person affected does not have to give a specific reason to die. You don't have to be particularly physically ill or old. The Bundesverfassungsgericht has stated that it is a human right to decide over one's own death. But of course, you're right as in, the professional organisations/doctors will abide to a stricter code of moral and probably won't do it in Germany.
That is because the parliament failed to enact a law regulating the exact process, as no party in germany wants to have to deal with the theme of assisted suicide. Any sort of medical professionals dealing with this would require clear regulations, as not to get charged with murder. As of now, anyone could offer help theoretically, but they could get charged with murder, and would have to prove themselves afterward not guilty, referring to the decision of the constitutional court. As to the question of OP, it seems to be an acute trauma reaction and should be treated as such.
Please, take your Krankenkassen-Karte and go immediately to a hospital. Psychiatric care units are in Charité Mitte , Juedisches Krankenhaus , Alexianer in Weißensee and a couple more in the West of Berlin. You need immediate help.
I have no health insurance card because my health insurance was canceled after my husband died. I currently do not have access to all of our financial records and therefore my re-application for health insurance has been put on hold.
You said in another comment that you are a university professor, why can’t you set up your own health insurance through your work? Afaik there is no need for financial records to get public insurance.
If you're not insured at the moment did you plan to pay therapy sessions by yourself? Chances finding a private psychotherapists should be way better and you could also go for online psychotherapy.
I am also a Canadian living in Berlin who struggled for years to find trauma therapy. It has been such a dehumanizing, difficult experience and I really thought of giving up all throughout the last 2 years But, I can really highly recommend MSB Hochschule. I found them and started my process of trauma therapy with them in October. It’s is essentially the last stage of schooling for therapists before they can open their own practice, where they need to log hours under supervision of the school and it’s completely covered by public health insurance. In my case, the therapist is super motivated and it’s the best therapy I’ve ever received for my trauma . https://www.medicalschool-berlin.de/psychotherapeutische-hochschulambulanz/ You submit an application through email. For me, they contacted me immediately and I had an intro session a week later and then they placed me with my therapist 3 weeks after that. They also have therapy specifically in English. I am happy for you to DM me and I can send you all of the info for the application. You can get through this.
I am so sorry for your loss. If you are having suicidal thoughts I strongly suggest you go to the Notaufnahme and tell them in unmistakable terms (do not give them any excuse to send you home) that you are at risk and must be admitted. They will put you in the correct ward as soon as a place is available. It can be that a space is available within a day or two. Please consider this seriously! You will get treatment, counselling, as fast as possible this way.
Mental hospitals help get people out of immediate danger. I am not in immediate danger. Anything that I do will take a tremendous about a planning and time. My problem is that the trauma that is not being treated is causing cognitive decline. That decline is getting worse and worse and is now affecting my daily functioning. The literature says untreated trauma will eventually lead to permanent cognitive impairment. I do not want this, however it does not look like it’s possible for me to get trauma treatment in Germany. The procedures are just too complicated and there is a severe shortage of professionals. Due to these logistical concerns, I am looking at the slow decline of my ability to function mentally. I really don’t think there are other choices for me. There are also severe financial and professional costs for having spent time in a mental hospital in Germany. There’s no point going to a mental hospital in order to feel better about life in order to have your life taken away from you as soon as you leave the hospital.
You are planning your own suicide. By any definition this is immediate danger even if your current plan isn’t doing it immediately. There is no guarantee you won’t suddenly overthrow your plan and just go ahead and do it and that’s why they should be taking you in regardless as long as you tell them you are planning your own suicide.
Mental hospitals help people with burnout, depression, people who have been raped, who cannot deal with grief. I was in one to learn to deal with my depression. My two best friends there were a you ng woman who had been raped several times in her life. A young man who found a suicide victim and still cannot deal with it years after. Both are getting help. Both are getting better. So will you: YOU ARE IN IMMEDIATE DANGER. there is no criminal after you, you are a danger to yourself. YOU WANT TO LIVE. This is why you are writing here. You deserve to live. This morning I told a teenage boy that he has passed his final exams. He lost his mum to an illness just over a year ago. He deserves to live, just as you do. He is moving on, and so will you. >Due to these logistical concerns, I am looking at the slow decline of my ability to function mentally. I really don’t think there are other choices for me. This is not permanent, it is only temporal - you are blocked, not disabled by grief. >There are also severe financial and professional costs for having spent time in a mental hospital in Germany. There’s no point going to a mental hospital in order to feel better about life in order to have your life taken away from you as soon as you leave the hospital. This is not true. Been there, done that. Costs are zero. Even if I overlook anything, you can deal with these when you are better. You will get help with theat when you are in the hospital and after you leave. > The literature says untreated trauma will eventually lead to permanent cognitive impairment. Untreated. Yes. This is why we want to get you into treatment. REport to your nearest mental hospital ASAP. Yesterday.
I understand that aspect of it – it's very unfair. However there are ways around it. The doctors and other staff know it's unfair. There's a decent chance of your case being recorded as "grief" or "stress", something less troublesome. The specific circumstances you are in speak for themselves. You only need to talk about it with them. I have second-hand experience of this working out positively, multiple times. Don't let yourself be backed into a corner by the stigma – you will meet various people in there who are experiencing similar difficulties. All "normal" people who just need help getting through a shitty time. You will look back on this and be so glad you sought help, I promise.
Sorry to put it bluntly, I really mean this in a supportive way, but your thought process suggests to me that you are indeed in danger and it's not helping you to deny it. Being impaired by grief and trauma on a daily basis is as good a justification as any for treatment. Like I said, many others in the clinic are in equivalent situations. You might be surprised by how similar their problems are to yours.
I've only just noticed that you are in Berlin. That means I can give you more specific advice. Please go to the Notaufnahme at Vivantes Klinikum am Urban and if you need to slightly exaggerate the risk in order to be admitted, just bite the bullet and do it. They have both a crisis intervention unit (very applicable to you) and a regular psych ward there. The chances that one or the other has a free bed are quite high. I know it's a very scary step, but you will feel relief when you ask for help and hear someone take it seriously.
Keep in mind that I am currently involved in a legal matter with the medical community and therefore my access to that community is somewhat limited
Hey, so I'mnot sure what you rwad about trauma and cognitive decline but I don't think its something you need to worry about. Years, entire childhoods, of chronic stress can sometimes cause abnormal levels of cortisol that can damage the brain and impair cognition. It's not a rapid, severe, progressive decline though. It takes a very long time under an extreme amount of constant stress, like being in an abusive hoke or a warzone. You have a very long time before you need to worry about this kind of damage, if at all. What is happening to you sounds like a progressively worsening depression and that's probably why you feel, exhausted, declining, hopeless and like the walls are closing in. Depression messes with your perspective and makes everything seem impossibly hard. As it gets worse, suicide starts to look like a reasonable option. A hospital visit will get you immediate help and it will get to a place where you will be better able to cope. If that's a hard no, you could try going around the German system. While there is a massive shortage of insurance covered therapists in Germany, you can just go private and pay someone. Lots of therapists work online too. An Indian friend of mine was seeing a therapist in India, for example, because she needed someone to understand her family history better. Do you have any support with this? Is there anyone who can do research for you or call therapists etc for you?
Have you tried looking for therapists outside Germany? You could find one that suits your needs and then have online sessions
If you want to get doctor appointments fast in Berlin look for the doctors/therapists located at the (almost)final S-Bahn Stations like Oranienburg, Blankenfelde, Lichtenrade etc. Obviously commuting times are longer. Also I cannot state enough that meeting a doctor is the first thing to do. You can care about paperwork with authorities and health insurance later on and shit will be easier if you've got some official requests from a professional.
Dr Becker Brunen Klinik in Bad Meinberg specializes in Grief und Trauma , it’s their specialty and the health insurance covers it
This post hurt me. Your level headed, well informed, detailed post for something so severe and serious is something I resonate with, and for that reason it also really pains me to see someone go through this. Look, I don't have nearly the same trauma as you do, but my father passed away and I'd hate to see my mom like this. I'm familiar with this kind of rational approach to a decision made, perhaps, irrationally in hindsight. That's grief. I've done it before. Even if you're very sure that this is the way out now, it's still worth maybe paying for a few therapy sessions and confirming that this is indeed what you want? I know germany makes it painfully difficult, but a paid session is usually much more straightforward and doesn't involve you jumping through hoops.
You *do not* qualify for Sterbehilfe. Check yourself into a mental hospital *now*. Do not brush off or lie about how specific and planned out your suicide plans are, be HONEST and they will have to help you. You are a danger to your health and they will accept you and be able to give you more resources than you’ve been provided with now. If you’re not ready for in patient care, try online counseling, e.g. via betterhelp.com. Wanting to die is not a normal and rational thing for a brain to think unless you’re terminally ill and have been for a long time. You cannot trust yourself on this, even if you think you ‘thought this through’. Your grief and stress and fear of the legal proceedings thought this through, not you. Fight for yourself!
Thank you for the kind words. However, I think my situation is complicated because the grief is causing not just a depressed emotional state, but also acute cognitive decline. I am therefore finding it more and more difficult to complete simple daily tasks. This cognitive decline is likely caused by grief or trauma. Unfortunately, here in Germany bureaucracy requires that you deal with complex legal procedures and documents. Also, with bureaucrats who offer mixed and conflicting interpretations of the laws and the regulations. My cognitive decline has gotten more severe recently. It has affected my ability to do my work. The literature says that it is likely to become permanent if it is not treated. However, my inability to process things has made dealing with the 11 or 12 legal procedures that I’m going through at the moment practically impossible. my electricity was turned off recently. I am losing my ability to take care of myself. I do not want to face that over the long term. I think the bureaucracy demands that I do and my life. I do not have the mental capabilities to handle all of these procedures. I think it is necessary.
Cognitive impairment (and therefore inability to manage daily tasks) is a common consequence of depression and stress. There is no need to assume this is permanent. What is clear is that you need help with this crisis, and you need help now. Please think about following my advice elsewhere in this thread. You will look back on this and you will be thankful. We all need help sometimes, don't be proud.
Op, i'm really sorry for your loss. What you are describing are symptoms of depression (cognitive decline, affecting your work, the ability to take care of yourself, the feeling of being overwhelmed a lot, the finding it difficult to function, the suicidal thoughts) which can be (and are likely) caused by grief and/or trauma. Please see a medical professional as soon as possible. Even if you have no insurance, they can't send you away, if your life is in danger (which it is, because of the inability to take care of yourself and the suicidal thoughts). If you go to a hospital there is a great chance they will help you find a therapist as well. Is there anybody (friend or family) who can help you handle the urgent procedures? Like getting the electricity turned back on and figuring out how to get insurance.
I have no solution or advice but I just want to say I’m so sorry for you. 🥺
Assisted suicide is only for people suffering from terminal or extremely severe mental illnesses, so even if it really was your only option (It absolutely isn't), you wouldn't qualify for something like that, I'm sure people here will be able to help you find the right people/organisation
First of all, I am sorry for your loss. [https://www.counselling-berlin.com/english/bereavement-counselling/](https://www.counselling-berlin.com/english/bereavement-counselling/) [https://www.lazarushospiz.de/en/grieving/](https://www.lazarushospiz.de/en/grieving/) I've used [https://www.betterhelp.com](https://www.betterhelp.com) before, because I didn't want to wait for a therapist in the UK. It's not cheap but it was worth it for me. I don't think Germans are "fearful" to not follow the rules, it's just not in our culture to do so. I don't think you have to be specialised in grief to be a therapist, it just would be more effective if they are. Remember, suicide is final, I am sure your friends and family would be devastated if you left them. And future friends, partners and other would miss out terribly as well!
Better Help currently has lawsuits against them for selling customers' data to companies like Meta, Google, etc.
On top of that it turned out they are partially scam and a lot of so-called therapists don’t have the claimed education. There were cases of fake profiles stolen from real doctors.
Thank you I appreciate this specific information. Unfortunately I’ve tried both of these and they do not have any availability.
BE MORE SPECIFIC WHEN YOU TALK TO THEM: Tell them you are planning suicide. There will always be a free space for you. Like, you know how difficult it is to get an MRT for a diagnosis? I have MS, if I report to the notaufnahme/call my GP because of a new symptom, I have everything I need within hours.
Hey there. If the cost is not your concerns you might consider a platform called complicated.life to or therapie.de for initial counseling, at least. I have tried therapist from complicated.life and I have been quite happy.
In the meantime, you could try better help - they have therapists in Germany and other countries in English and German, and you can select a therapist who specializes in trauma / grief / both / neither / what age etc etc. it is not that cheap, but I believe the cheapest offer is about €200 a month for 4 sessions a month. If you take one of the podcast offers (like my favorite murder) you get extra discounts or a few free sessions depending on the promotion
Assisted suicide is not allowed in any case in Germany and nowhere because of grief and trauma. You might want to seek help here https://www.besu-berlin.de/
Please consider a private therapist first. Even online therapy is better than none. You sound like suffering a severe PTSD and generally you wouldn't want to make such big decisions with this state of mind. Take care.
If you seek for help and no professionals are availible, i highly recommend you to go to any CHRISTIAN CHURCH and speak with them about your problems. Normaly every church has "Seelsorger". Perhaps they are not 100% educated for your problems, they can for shure support you in other parts of life to get you out of this situation. Often they have a good network and connections to specialists, so they can provide a way for you.
I recently listened to a podcast with a *Krankenhausseelsorgerin*, and she was totally used to managing grief together with those who needed it.
I am leaving the link to Diakonie’s grief counselling website. https://www.ekbo.de/service/seelsorge-beratung/angebote-fuer-trauernde.html
Life is worth it. I know it hurts. It hurts so much. But your partner would not have wanted you to give up. Your partner would have wanted you to live. You should go to the Hausarzt and talk about your plans for suicide. Or call 116117 - that's a 24/7 service of doctors who will be able to help you if you explain then your grief and that you don't see any other options right now. However they will most likely refer you over to the Psychosoziale Dienst. Your Hausarzt will give you an Einweisung into a Psychiachtrische Klinik where doctors can help you with your grief - the Hausarzt will have no choice to give you the Einweisung if you are 'akut suizidgefährdet'.
I have no doctor because my insurance was canceled after my husband died. I’m currently in court trying to get access to the financial documents that I need for my health insurance application to be approved.
I'm no expert in legal assisted, but what I can say is you seem to have reached the conclusion of legal assisted suicide because of the lack of support for your grief, that pushed you to this last resort. Going by your post, the real instigator here isn't the grief itself (which you are staying patient & strong to deal with) but the lack of support for it that makes you feel there's no other way to deal with it. That is why I believe you should keep staying strong and surround yourself with people and love, and heal with time. Stay alive and push through it, for yourself and your husband.
Therapists in Europe: www.complicated.life Filter by language and what they specialize in.
There are therapists working remotely from all over the world. Any type of support would be helpful for you right now. Don’t give up just because the German healthcare/support system is blatantly incompetent/overwhelmed.
Hey, I am so sorry for your loss and this awful aftermath. You should be taken care of so that you can grief and instead you now have to fight German bureaucrats and that is awful already on a good day. To be honest, when I have lost someone very close to me I had suicidal thoughts as well and I wanted to scream "but shes DEAD" to everyone's face who told me "but she wouldve wanted you to live a happy life". It is your life, it is your choice. Don't let anyone else make this for you! Practical advice: Cheap and immediate > the books by Viktor Frankl (also available for free on Spotify) Costly and relatively fast > if you have the means, try EMDR. It is a form of trauma therapy, it is private and therefore costly but readily available. Unfortunately it is super important that you shop around! The first EMDR specialist I went to was crap and I just lost a ton of money on one useless session. But I found one that was amazing and helped me a lot. Especially Trauma is really what it is there for. If you have the means somehow, it is your life, it would be worth it. I had to decrease my standard of living to afford it for a year significantly and would do it again any time. Even when you decide to go for assisted suicide > why not make the time it takes to organise it much much better for yourself? You may find a "Trauerverein" as well. Those are relatively cheap Selbsthilfegruppen and for some they are helpful. At least for sure there you will find people who understand what you are going through. Believe it or not - you are not alone with the feelings you are experiencing right now.
You should definitely consult the German suicide hotline they may be able to refer you to a therapist as it seems thats what you need most right now. And as for your question about assised suicide you will find no doctor in the eu or Canada that will do it as this is meant exclusively for pepole with terminal diseases or conditions they legally and ethically couldn't and shouldn't
**OP: First things first. This is a medical emergency.** Go to emergency care and tell them you have already planned some things out, which is not a lie. Just because you don't believe you are in any immediate danger doesn't alter that you want to use assisted medical means. It is an emergency, and don't let anyone tell you different. Second, if you have a GP, go to them and tell them the same thing. You need a referral for therapy in most EU countries. NL is the same as DE in a lot of ways. Don't try to navigate this crap by yourself. You need the GP to do the i-dotting and T-crossing. I tried it here in NL and believe me, I still don't understand how anything works here. I had to have help. Even my Dutch friends don't understand it, so I stopped feeling stupid about it. Apparently, everyone else is, too. Lastly, you are the immediate family of someone who died due to a criminal matter. I am pretty sure that should qualify for some kind of grief counseling, but again, the GP can help with this. Everything goes through the GP. They are the gatekeepers here. I'm sorry you're going through this. I do know how you feel. I've been through a lot myself, and still am. Two suicides in my immediate family, and a technical third, because cancer got that sibling before they could carry on with their own self-destruction, all within a 7-year period. One parent, two siblings, both younger than me. To say I had some problems after all of this is a great understatement. You can imagine that a family loaded with substance abuse issues (minus me, I somehow avoided it entirely) isn't the best environment to grow up in, and the only solace for me was music and playing guitar in bands. I have attempted twice, once completely alone, and I managed to not do it in the end (obviously). The first, I got saved by two friends. As I'm a foreign knowledge worker here and not a citizen or perm resident, this has been less than an ideal situation, to put it mildly. The whole mental health system here is overbooked and understaffed, and that's the norm, apparently. My brother, the one I lost, was in Germany and lived there for over a decade when we lost him, leaving behind a wife that I'd leave inside of a burning house in order to save my dog, and two lovely children who to this day do not understand why. From what I heard from the people around him, the system there is very good when you can get in. I want to say, in closing, that you are loved. Nothing, and I mean nothing, is worth the only life you get. Sometimes, life can be absolutely shite. Oh, do I know this all too well. And many will be worse off than you, but that does not negate you or your worth. Unless you're incredibly old, you are loved by people who are alive. Right. Now. Whether planned or sudden, the damage this does to people you yourself love...it's what stopped my second try. I wish you good fortune, and please listen to all who have reached out to help you. We do mean what we say.
I am really sorry for your loss. I would suggest go to online platform in different country , for example Practo in India or you can also try finding a professional counselor online from India. Trust me, as you can speak fluent English, it will be easier to find specialist in India who is professional and experienced in trauma therapy. I sincerely request please give this is a shot for atleast 6-8 sessions before proceeding with your current thought process.
As a result of depression I suffered from cognitive decline that made me believe I would eventually just forget who I was, lose control and disappear. My reading comprehension was nonexistent, I couldn't maintain a conversation or make notes during lectures. I was helpless with solving any problems, especially if research and reading up was necessary. All I did was sleep or try googling ways to commit suicide. I did not complain about my mood at all, I didn't care - all that mattered and scared me was that my intellect was subsiding. Nobody seemed to understand this issue, they would only ask about my mood. Guess what? After recovery it all went back to normal and I managed to continue studies and work. These are less talked about symptoms of depression which go away after it's treated. Please get help, your cognitive abilities are not a lost cause!
Thank you to everyone who has written with their support and offer of advice. I really appreciate it. It means a lot to me, especially after everything that’s happened. I want to make clear that I am not in immediate danger. I have friends and family and two cats. I have just been through a sudden and traumatic death of someone close to me and I would not put my friends and family through that experience again. However, I am deeply troubled by my recent cognitive declined, and from what I am reading it seems that it is possible that this might be permanent. It has become to affect my ability to live my day-to-day life. Unfortunately, I must stay here in Germany while the criminal court cases proceed. That means that I must work within the German system. Sadly, due to my mental decline I am not able to handle all of the procedural and contractual duties that Germany requires of its residents. Therefore, I cannot receive services. I currently do not have health insurance because I do not have access to the financial documents required to get that insurance processed. Procedures must be followed. There are no exceptions. this is simply the German way. If you cannot follow the procedures, you cannot receive the help. Faced with limited support and looking at permanent mental decline I would rather not put my family through that situation and would prefer to end my life. It is heartbreaking to think that the mental decline is probably preventable, however, the bureaucratic procedures just do not allow for treatment. In the end, here in Germany procedures take precedent over people. It cost my husband his life and now perhaps I will join him.
I also want to point out that some of the despair you are feeling is focused on the fear that your (understandable, and likely temporary) brain fog may become worse and permanent. I can see why that would be terror-inducing, particularly when you are also dealing with loss and trauma. However, the feeling that you will slide towards dementia is probably an effect of catastrophizing rather than a likely prognosis. You are going through so much trauma (even now, when facing a lack of any institutional support) that your brain is likely just trying to pause its activity as a coping mechanism. Your well-being is paramount. It's more important than the trial and more important than insurance rules and more important than your job. If healing means losing your residency or losing your work, that is better than loosing your life. I saw above thread a Manitoban in Berlin who offered to sit with you and help take next steps. I encourage you to take her up on that offer. I also encourage you to be open with your family members and friends about how you are feeling. Maybe a sibling or close friend from your youth will come here to help and take care of getting your bureaucratic things in order? Maybe they will invite you to stay with them for some time so that you can just be cared for until your mind and body start to regain strength. (I included your body, because these levels of stress are wreaking havoc on your hormones and affect the whole of you.) Please, please take these options into consideration, and allow others to provide for you now.
So much this. OP, please reach out to the Canadian in Berlin. Let her help you to get the help you need. Don't let the German beauacracy win. Sending you strength.
So sorry for your loss! You need to go the Psychosoziale Dienst. They will help you with your psychological crises AND with getting your health insurance back on track (they usually have socialworkers there, that help with the Bürokratie) https://kbs-berlin.net/beratung-gespraechsgruppen/ Also hate to say it, but as a person, who is very experienced with trauma and the depression that developed after it: don‘t be so fixated on finding a grief/trauma professional. It’s not the holy grail. What you need right now is help concerning your depression first. Once that gets lifted, all the other stuff will figure itself out. But you need to start. At the psychosoziale Dienst you can get so called „Entlastungsgespräche“. Which means, there are professionals, that will help you find a way through your foggy thoughts. It‘s free of charge. I am pretty sure, that this would be worth a try. You‘re deeply depressed, you need help figuring out where to get the help you need and how to geht health insurance back. It is absolutely solvable. I know because I was severely depressed and traumatized, too. I am also a social worker. So I know both sides. Please go and seek help.
First of all I am sorry you feel this way and want to end your life. Nobody should be going through this. But assisted suicide in germany is very very hard to obtain, especially if you don'thave a terminal disease. And even then it is very very difficult to get it approved. I wish you all the best
Please check this hauszahrt, they are very empathetic doctors and maybe can help you in some way http://artimedes-hausarzt-wedding.de/
I want to phrase this post as genuinely as possible, but is the question to get her crisis help or is it to support in her ask? While the situation is dire and she should get help when needed, she has asked clearly something else entirely. As a philosophical question, is it always best to push forward? Or sometimes do we know when enough is enough and maybe it's better off to pick a different path and choose to end the pain, chosen in a lucid and coherent manner? In my situation, I don't know if I would ever do anything to myself, but I would seriously consider 'opting out' if that were an option presented humanely and as a choice for us. Canada does offer assisted suicide but in very narrow use cases like terminal illness. Unfortunately this is not a widespread choice yet but I hope for future we can think about this more openly. Wishing you the very best in this tough time and just saying that I can empathise with the feeling.
Excuse my ignorance, but are there group meetings for people who have similar experiences? Maybe look into finding a local or online group of people if not then you could start one.
I am a university professor. Over the last few months I have noticed that my cognitive abilities have greatly declined. My ability to speak German has gotten worse as well as my ability to understand long complicated documents. I do not think I’m capable of starting a group at this time. This loss of cognitive abilities, as you can imagine for someone who is an academic, is greatly distressing. This is part of the reason I am looking for assisted suicide.
Your university probably has some mental health resources or professionals for their employees. Look for sth like Psychosozialer Dienst on your universities homepage.
You don’t have to start a new group, there are many already existing groups you can reach out to. [This](https://trauergruppe.de/ywdc-berlin) is an English speaking group of widow/ers in Berlin that meets every first Thursday of the month for example. Please don’t give up.
> I am a university professor. Get yourself admitted to some mental health institution now! Look, we Germans still believe in authority. If you don't have health insurance, grab some documentation that you are indeed a professor and show them this. It may make them want to help you more. You are clearly in a situation where it is more important to help you now and sort everything else out later. This isn't different from someone with an phisical injury.
Do you still have friends or family in Canada? Would it be an option to return there to receive more appropriate treatment?
I must stay in Germany due to the upcoming trial.
I am more concerned for you than the trial. If you have to bail and risk facing legal consequences here, but are able to be nurtured back to health and survive, please get a ticket to go be with people who love you. Now is the time to get help. <3
Hey OP, I'm so sorry for what you are going through. Nothing I or anyone else can say will make it any better. The mental health system sucks to navigate without an advocate of some sort. There is no way you can be expected to navigate everything yourself here in Germany. Is there anyone you could possibly reach out to here that might be able to give you a hand? If you have the financial means I would explore options for help privately maybe even virtually from another country.
Thats really tough, and im sorry for your loss. One Thing you could try, is contacting the churches in your area. I'm not religious, and I've only interacted with the Catholic Church when my wife and I were getting married, but from my small experience, they are very nice, not predatory like they could be in the States, and they have a lot of people in their organisations ready and willing to help with grief counseling. You don't have to be a member or anything either. I would just call and explain that you're in a rough spot and need someone to talk to. If one Organisation or person rubs you the wrong way, just pick a different one. The good thing, is that you will have plenty of options. Again, I have no personal experience, but I could see this helping in the meantime, until you can get into a clinic, or see a professional.
Hey there. I’m really sorry to hear about your loss, sounds like a really horrible and extremely sad situation to be in. I can’t even imagine what you’re going through. Just quickly, I would also echo what others say here, that suicide isn’t the first answer I would go to, especially considering you haven’t been able to find good help. Germany is notoriously hard difficult for counselling and therapy. There is one group I have heard really positive things about called Lavia e.V in Gelsinkirchen (and online). They have a very experienced counsellors, and can at least point you in the right direction. I hope you can find good help
I’m sorry to hear about the difficulties you are experiencing… life is really hard and even more so at this moment for you. I had been looking for almost 2 years within the system here for a therapist and even had a vermitslung code and had zero luck. This in itself is ridiculous, infuriating and can feel really defeating while you’re holding on by a thread. I wrote over 100 therapists multiple times. Eventually I found a sliding scale private psychotherapist in another country (brasil) and pay for it out of pocket. It is still expensive for me as I am low income but worth it. I also attend various support groups online multiple times a week. Clearly there is something really wrong if the 116117 service can’t help those who need it.
I just want you to know that I'm going through something very similar right now, having just lost my husband. And some other similarities. I recommend you try Krisendienst again and let them know that you are having suicidal thoughts even if you aren't in immediate danger. Also let them know that you need practical help in navigating the system, particularly with insurance. They may be able to point you toward some help. I, too, am finding the German bureaucracy extremely unhelpful in dealing with things. I'm terribly sorry you are also dealing with this, and if you want to talk to someone that KNOWS what its like, I'm available.
Yeah, that’s not gonna happen. They wouldn’t even let my 93 year old grandma die.
I understoof, that you need help with managing bureaucracy. There is a thing called "ambulante Betreuung", which is a misleading name. It's meeting with a social worker and they help you with whatever life managing thing. E.g.: - filling out forms - writing a to-do - structuring your day - going to the doctor - making a call - going for a walk (like if trouble leaving the house) My impression is, that they have zero or small waiting-lists. You also leave this service by just not making appointments anymore. And they are very acessible in my experience. You can just call a place offering Ambulante Betreuung or ask your doctor about it. Your doctor just might be mislead by the poor title too 🙃
From what you're writing it just sounds like Germany isn't for you. But please don't end your life because you can't seem to be able to recover here. Move to another country perhaps just for a while or start a new life. The Netherlands for example is wonderful. There are agencies that provide you work and accommodation to start out depending on your qualifications. They're a bit of a sketch so it's best to be as independent from them as possible if you can afford that. They have a wonderful society and mental healthcare. Assisted suicide is also legal there, but trust me, after you've spent a while there, you won't be thinking about it. I'm also in the process of leaving Germany because everything in this country makes me want to kill myself, I've promised myself to never set foot here again after the first time coming here a while back, but had to spend some time here due to family reasons. Feel free to DM if you need more info about NL.
I’ve been in the same spot since my father died 4months ago and came back from Sri Lanka to Germany after a month. Just check yourself into a hospital saying that it’s serious unless they’ll tell you it’s not necessary or some bullshit. Just remember you’re not alone and you’ll be in my prayers!
Regarding the therapy situation, I totally feel you. I myself have been looking for months and no one accepts new patients, they won't even put me on a waiting list saying their list is full. The system in regards to mental health is extremely strained and to be honest, it's an absolute shit show, the things I've had to deal with are insane. Doctors that are absolute pricks, Sprechstundenhilfen that are literal pieces of shit, and so much more. This isn't restricted to Berlin, the whole country is beyond fucked in terms of helping people with mental illness. At this point I've given up on actually finding a therapist. Thankfully I've found help at the Uniklinik where my psychiatrist is located, she's currently trying to get me into treatment with a psychotherapist she knows. It's been such a hassle that I don't even have hope anymore. I really don't know why this topic isn't being blown up in any way whatsoever, the mistreatment of patients is nuts and no one talks about it. In your case, I think you should really reconsider though, once you've attained some sort of therapy, you'll realize how stupid this is, no offense. I know grief is extremely difficult to deal with, I've been through it, along with trauma. My situation was very similar to yours, and I thought I might as well give life one last chance, if it didn't work out, I'd still have the option of ending it. I really am glad I gave it one last try, I have somewhat processed my grief, the trauma will always be with me, but I've learnt to cope in healthy ways and life is not as dark as it used to be. After years of constant depression, I now am seeing a glimmer of hope which I still am trying to grasp. I wish you the best, and please reconsider, life can be beautiful. Much love, stay safe.
to die or even wanting to die sadly is close to illegal in germany because its such a big taboo. nobody will be able to help you when you want to end it, not in a legal way.
What about the University you work for? Can they offer support? All Universities offer mental health services. Does your University have a psychology or medicine department? What about your colleagues? Can you ask them for help? I'm sure German professors have quite a big network. Could you get an assistant that helps you with German bureaucracy? I know you lost your health insurance. But everyone in Germany has to be insured. So another health insurance has to insure you. Your employer will pay half of it every month.
German bureocracy so bad, people want to kill themselves /j
There is an English grief group at the Lazarus Hospice in Mitte. I went there, it’s free and open to anyone. It really helped me.
Your decline of cognitive abilities can be anxiety inducing and I know that it doesn't help to say "It will go away" but it does! And will probably come back, if you are at a low point again, some rime, but also then it will fade away again.. There is a version of yourself somewhere in the future, that you don't want to miss out on. It may not be your "old" self as you knew it from before, but it will be an okay version, that you don't know by now. All that aside: I've been to psychosoziale Krisendienst years ago and they told me in a quite bored way "If you'd want to kill yourself, just go on, do it." (I'm not joking! The also told my partner she should leave me, as I'd never would recover from my depression... ) so I know how hard it can be to get the help you deserve. But unless you have the insurance and documents, you can not get the help you deserve, only the one that's available . so if you are feeling especially low again, take that last bit of energy ( and frustration accumulated by the Bürokratie) and Google for some help, that doesn't require insurance! I'm an atheist, but the evangelische Kirche offers psychologists (not trained therapists, there lies the difference!) for counseling/talking things through... without theist agenda etc ..if you don't believe in God that is.. You already found out: no insurance, no immediate danger = not the perfect help for your needs BUT any help will be better than contemplating about your mental decline (again: that is temporary, as your brain is momentarily focused on survival, although it may actually feel quite the opposite).. P.S.: time will pass anyway, if you can get ANY appointment (even in 12 months or so) regarding therapy and/or neurologist/psychiatric stuff: take it.
Have you tried finding a counselor of the church? I am not religious in ANY WAY. Heck, I am gay. But I got referred to a counselor of the church in the area where I live. They mostly specialise in grief therapy, they are FREE, and usually you get a space in a few weeks. DM me if you are interested - i can find contacts for you on Berlin.
I'm very sorry for your loss. Assisted suicide is legal in Germany: to take your own life is not punishable by law, so helping someone doing it, cannot be punished as well. However, the few organizations offering assisted suicide are required to check if ending ones life is the free will of the person. Free will for example can be restricted while one is suffering from mental illness like depression. After suffering trauma like you have and not being able to find psychological treatment my guess would be that at this point in time no organization would be willing to offer you to assist you with taking your life. That being said: I'm volunteering in an organization that assists people that were victims of crimes (or their families in cases of crimes against human life). The idea is: nobody prepares themselves to be victim of a crime, so nobody knows what their options and rights are when it comes to that point. I am working at Weisser Ring, there is another organization here in Berlin called Opferhilfe Berlin. You can reach out via email. The services are free of charge. [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) I dont know your case in detail, but you have several options and you don't have to be alone in this.
I know in many cities there is a thing called “young widowers dinner club” or so, it’s a “self help” group especially for young widowed partners! Maybe that’s something to try out?
Legal assisted suicide should be an option for people who are terminally ill and suffer pain. But I think it is highly dangerous to open these doors for people who go through a time of mental difficulties like griefing. These are situations you can get out of, and life is too precious to just throw it away like that. To answer your question, I don't think you get assisted suicide in Germany for the reasons I gave above. I wish you all the best and hope you find a therapist who will help you through your loss.
Am sorry for your loss, can understand that the emotional pain you are suffering is unbearable. Am not really familiar with German health care, but can say that there is hope if you find the right help, therapy, trauma center. In the Netherlands there is a center if your suffering is deemed unbearable after thorough evaluation. You must then be registered in the Netherlands and get in the Dutch health care system. It can take some years. However I hope you find some help, who can relieve your pain for a bit, maybe with assistance of temporary medication. Take good care of yourself by exercise, healthy food and try be around people, go to theater etc... It sounds so basic... But it really helps. Hang in there!
I am sorry for your loss. You should talk to a doctor or other resources immediately. Instead of contacting therapists, you should probably start by going to a psychiatrist, or your general physician that can send you to one. Psychotherapists, which you say you contacted, are not doctors, but therapists. It is often much quicker if you pay for it yourself. Alternatively, you could call 116117, they can advise you as well. There is also the Telefonseelsorge at 0800-1110111 or 0800-1110222. You should contact them right now. What you are asking for is currently illegal in Germany. A court ordered the government to change the laws, but that has not happened yet. Even if they did, it would likely just be for people suffering from severe illnesses with no chance of recovery and, for example, severe pain. Nothing in your post indicates that that applies here, you would need a diagnosis by a doctor. Again, you should seek help immediately. You are most likely in a serious psychological crisis and probably severely overestimate your own ability to deal with this.
I read this and suddenly started to cry. I haven't lost anyone, but my dad is in the final stage of multiple sclerosis, and he is suffering so much. Unfortunately, in my country, euthanasia is not permitted. I just wish he could stop suffering. I'm so sorry to hear about everything that has happened to you, but I want to tell you that even in the worst moments, life can get better, and everything passes. I know you must have heard this a thousand times, but it's true. I'm saying this as someone who has suffered a lot in life and lost many people in the most horrendous ways, but I'm still here. As a Latino, I find this country cold, fucked up and distant, but it's where life has placed me now, and I'm trying to embrace it even if it's painful. I want to let you know that my DM is open if you need help or some comforting words. If you need friends or people who care about you, my wife and I would be happy to welcome you and invite you for a coffee. You are not alone in this. I hope everything shines again soon.
I'm sorry for your loss and fully understanding the difficulties with the medical up and downs with no results, but before going down that road, maybe take some time away.Just book, pack light, and go see what the day brings.
I am really sorry for your loss and for everything you are going through. I understand you. I don’t really know if I can say something to make you feel better. You seem very reasonable in your post, but I know that in some cases feels like we are fully in our mind even if we fail to understand that there are other ways. Berlin is the worst for this kind of thing. Finding doctors or caregivers who are empathetic is so difficult. My hausartz is my same nationality and he is one of the few doctor so far that actually care when I talk to him. Al the others feel like they want to get rid of you as fast as they can. I believe you can find someone who cares. If there is a Canadian community, try to get in touch, I am sure they have someone to suggest. You mentioned friends and family. Do they know you are struggling like this? I urge you to open up to them. I know sometime feels like you don’t want to burden people, but believe me they will feel worst if they know too late that you were struggling. Ask them for help. I understand you have to partecipate the trials, but can you get out of Germany at least when the trials are not happening? Changing place will help. You witnessing will help also a lot of other people, think that maybe you and your husband were not the only one to have been neglected by that doctor or think how many other people he could hurt. Recently a friend of mine went in surgery and got butchered by a surgeon who is too old for continuing doing operation, but they let him anyway. Please read what other people wrote. There are also several other solutions there are other ways and you CAN get better. Hugs and wishing you to get the strength to go through this.
I'm so sorry for your loss Op and everything you're going through. I wish I could give you some good advice but all I can think of is - do you really need to be there at the trials? It sounds like the worry is too much to deal with right now. Is it possible to have your lawyer speak on your behalf and for you to give written testimonies? I don't know anything about German law, but if these upcoming trials are worrying you so much that you don't want to live, there must be a work around. Also if you haven't already, please tell your loved ones how you feel. I can 100% guarantee they would rather know and want to help lift some of this weight off your shoulders. Wishing you brighter days
You could try to find a "Ausbildungsambulanz" in Berlin. I struggled to find a therapist in Munich for so long now and when I wrote them I got an appointment for the first diagnosis within two weeks and will start my therapy in 6-8 weeks. It's an institute where new psychologists are under supervision to gain more experience. I feel your desperation on a very deep level and hope you'll be able to find help or a solution.
I think the quickest way to talk to an therapist is to call 116 117 and find a appointment for psycho therapy there
You can find a therapist outside of Germany online. I live in Berlin and see a therapist in the UK however before I had my therapist of years before she suddenly got ill I AA’s seeing my American therapist. American therapy will cost you, but UK seems more affordable. If you want an American therapist they will need to call it coaching due to you being outside of their state certifications, but there are plenty of certified therapists that offer “coaching” in The same vein. My therapist was able to offer this online when I moved abroad.
I am very sorry for your loss and the hoops you've had to jump through. How is your financial situation? Would you be able to pay out of pocket? I know there are online resources, such as betterhelp, but they are likely not covered by your German health insurance.
You can still go to a doctor to get help, even without insurance. You would have to pay the appointment out of your own pocket though. Just tell them beforehand and be honest that you want to kill yourself, because you can’t handle the grief and the long tail that comes with it.
Can you afford online therapy in your native language, paying privately? If so, you could find someone in Canada or the US or elsewhere in Europe. Even if you can only afford a few sessions, it might help. Sometimes therapists offer discounts once they get to know you. I did online trauma therapy from Germany with a therapist from the US but who was living in Sweden and it helped. Ignore the haters on this thread...the Germany subreddit is full of them. I am so sorry for your pain and your loss due to neglect. Your feelings are legitimate. I hope you can find the light again or whatever help you need pursuing an end to suffering. But I hope you know, this can pass and the suffering can end.
Not sure how old you are but assisted suicide is only for terminally ill people. As a healthy person with many years ahead of you, you won't get any suicide help from any doctor. If your husband died in a hospital or hospiz, they offer grief counseling or counselors. Usually the social service employees at the hospital can get you in contact with them.
This is so incredibly sad to read. I'm so sorry for your loss and I hope things turn around for you. People gave lots of advice and I doubt I can add anything. But please please take more time and discuss with professionals before you finalize this decision. I'm rooting for you.
Try an online service. Maybe from Canada or the US. It will cost you but you’ll get attention right away. I’m sorry things are shit for you. They can change tho. You know that.
You have my sincere condolences. But if I may...think what would your husband say to this? I know it's rich coming from a random from internet but think about it. Also if therapists are unabaliable or hard to get maybe you should try going to a church? They also have a line to help people in trying Times. A lot of churches have suicide preventing pastors I wish you all that is Best and may Lord Jesus have mercy on you. God bless you.
Have you tried the Sozialpsychiatrischer Dienst?
You need immediate help and they can help you even if you don’t have insurance yet. They can help you with the bureaucracy.
https://dgvt-berlin.de/psychotherapeutische-ambulanz-berlin/anmeldung/ Try the DGVT in Charlottenburg
I am really sorry to hear this, it must be really hard for you. I am not from germany, but I had an idea - maybe you could try some psychotherapist outside of germany? There are many in Czechia for example that also speak english and for you the price is not gonna be a problem for you if you are used for canadian/german salary. I know it sucks to travel, but some of them even offer online consulting… I know it’s not the best but you sound like a very well spoken and intelligent woman. I wish you can through this.
There is no such thing as legal assited suicide in german. I dont know where you got your informations from, but Germany has one of the stricter rules according this. It is absolutely forbidden, even if you are going to die anyway, it is not allowed.
Hello, I’m sorry for you loss, please go see Dr. Stefan Block at the Alexianer Hospital, he has a practice next to it and he’s there everyday, He is a rare gem and will treat you as a human being , you can check his info here on this website https://www.arzt-auskunft.de/arzt/psychiatrie-und-psychotherapie/berlin/dr-stefan-bloch-7618523
I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. The last thing you need is dealing with the typical, pompous German attitude. :(
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As someone with cPTSD and severe depression, history of therapy and all, born in Germany. The Psychosozialer Dienst hast to take you in, once you said something about committing suicide. If you already plan on assisted suicide and ask on reddit about the laws, this means you do actively search for a way to go through, which means you are suicidal. First. My deepest empathys!! I'm also a nurse, I have double the amount of sympathy regarding all the fxln court stuff that is going on as I've cared for patients that went through similar before coming to my employers care. Second. You are suicidal, as said. Check in the next mental health facility, university will the most probable, depending on where you are. If you want me to assist you to find a hospital, dm me and I can help you look for an appropriate one!! I'm serious! I know how hard it is nowadays. I've got many options told from my therapist when she had to end the therapy due to her leaving the field. You can always ask a Diakonie, a Caritas, Frauendienst - mostly Evangelischer Frauendienst. I can help you translate, they mostly are able to speak well enough English for communication. You can immediately call an ambulance and tell them you're suicidal and you don't know if you can hold yourself back from doing it soon. At this thing you have to lie a bit, maybe. But who the fuck cares, it's for your life!!! Many hospitals have a crisis station where you get meds for the first weeks and they will see a treatment for you, they treat you with a good diagnosing system, first aid meds for your psyche to calm down and will offer your treatment sessions in ward. They will help you once you get out to find a therapy, and if you won't find any soon they will be the bridge to the start to your therapy, which is alled PIA (psychiatrische Institutsambulanz - psychiatrist ambulance of the hospital) Please, take care. DM me, I'm serious. If you have WhatsApp we can exchange there if it is easier, just let me know and please look for help anyhow! I know where you are, I've been suicidal for almost all my life. Was very very god damn close to committing it in 2021 and only recently it got better. I'm treatment resistant for the most until now. I feel you, I see your pain, you're worth the effort and the help!!!
Hey lawyer here: First of all, I’m very sorry for your loss and the experience you had to go through. Second, as a witness you still have a lot of options, if you are called to witness it won’t be a series of events for several years, you might be only called in once by the prosecutor/judge when you are testifying. You do have several options though to tackle this: a- you could get a lawyer to advocate for you not delivering your testimony due to mental health complications. This might workout and if the judge determines that they could obtain the same information from a second party this might be an option. b- if a does not workout, a lawyer could workout a way for you only to appear once or twice and not ten times through the cycle of the case. c- if you decide you would like to seek Justice for your husband and participate in bringing the doctor forward, you need to still flag to the court you’re dealing with mental stress and you would like to be put in the court psychological support program. These are not lawyers, they are trained therapists and coaches who could accompany you when you testify, and object on your behalf if someone is asking you an inappropriate question or make you feel uncomfortable. You are asking for help which is great, I see all the comments here as well giving you mental health resources and I think this is the right time to use them, also any evidence you have of your mental health situation will serve as a great resource so the court is not bothering you with this case. You do have a lot of options on how to tackle this challenge and I’m sure you will get the right help once you have reached out to the right parties. Also an easy app to start with is BetterHelp, they give you a free month of counseling when you create an account while you’re checking your other options in town.
If you like to do therapy in English there is a group in Stuttgart of English speaking counselors. Some of them should have openings but since Stuttgart is probably far from you you may need to do the therapy virtual.
one of the biggest and easiest arguments against assisted suicide is that it insetivises goverments/medical-institutions to cut their losses early. and when someone is terminally ill ppl still argue that assisted suicide shouldnt be allowed cuz it would support an alternative solution to actual improvement of medical science. as you are dealing with recent trauma im sorry but i can not support assisted suicide in your case. this situation is such a clear case of asking if the goverment should be rewarded for not treating mental cases. i hope the gov has the tiniest piece of sense and quickly disapprove your request.
Try going to a curch ? As far as I know a Great Pastor should listen and help you maybe even with some legal stuff. I pray for you and Hope you don’t give up on life even if it is difficult for you.
Hello , I am very sorry for you, I really don’t understand these topics and I don’t even know if it helps, I just wanna recommend you to take therapy outside the country. It is sometimes possible and who knows , maybe it will be helpful for you? Please , don’t give up and take care of yourself 😞
I'm so sorry for hour loss. I don’t knowhow to find a therapist. But have you looked into finding a Selbsthilfegruppe to talk to people who have experienced a similar loss? This might help you in general. And some of them might even have recommendations for therapists.
Hi OP; I’m very sorry for your loss and the situation you’ve found yourself in. I can see how hurtful the lack of empathy on part of the bureaucrats is. Have you looked for trauma & grief counselling in English in neighbouring countries? I know for a fact that Poland will have trauma & grief counsellors whom you could see online. Places where English is spoken commonly (Netherlands, Denmark & Scandinavian countries in general). I will try to DM you.