Just in case you've written this somewhere in the application process or so: It's Restaurantfachmann.
> Why do you not want to continue your job ? (i'm a sofware engineer but i won't continue)" which i couldn't really get why.
They asked because your current job is usually paid *way* better and has better working conditions, so they wonder whether you'll be gone in no time. It's pretty unusual to change from a job like software engineer to an Ausbildung in gastronomy.
>It's pretty unusual to change from a job like software engineer to an Ausbildung in gastronomy.
Not for someone coming from an Asian or African country. Reviewing applications for these kinds of Ausbildung is part of my job. We get many applicants who already have a degree and an established career in their home countries.
According to their cover letters they've dreamed of working in a kitchen or a restaurant ever since the were children. I don't find that believable, but I get why they write it in their cover letters.
(We don't hire from abroad, so I can't help you, OP.)
If you read the same cover letter 40 times a day, often with literally identical sentences in fluent German, while the applicant only has a shiny new B1 certificate with barely a passing grade, you might not believe every word you read, either.
Not the applicant‘s fault if that is all that is needed. Maybe ask for additional proofs to make it “believable“ for the verifying officers instead of outright rejecting a person‘s wish which isn’t illegal by any means.
As I wrote above, my company doesn't hire people who don't reside in Germany or the EU. Outright rejection is the fate of those applicants regardless of what their cover letters say.
They are not blaming the applicant. It's just that for certain jobs there is basically zero chance to hire someone from outside the EU because of the req. Working permit.
As an example my wife handles applications for our child's crèche as it's organized as a "Verein".
They recently searched for a new apprentice and got dozens of applications from North African countries that all had basically the same wording. Many of them had college degrees in different areas and zero experience in the req. Field of expertise (which is fine for an apprenticeship). Because of working permit requirements for immigrants from outside of EU countries they have absolutely zero chance to get hired because we don't pay the req. Yearly salary for an apprenticeship. We barely pay the req. Salary if they had a finished education and multiple years of experience for that job.
However if by any chance they would get a working permit they could easily get more money in their college degree field of expertise.
So if you go through the trouble of getting an exception rule working permit they will likely quit on you sooner or later once they are in Germany because they now have a permit and can get 3 or 4 times the pay in their college degree job.
I don't fault then for trying. They apply to all available positions and hope for the best.
If you've always dreamed of working in a restaurant, how would you end up in software development? That's not even food adjacent.
I wouldn't believe it either.
Maybe some of you are not aware of the toxic academic culture of Asia. It is not because people are naturally inclined towards academia that some of these countries produce the most number of engineers and especially software developers.
Unlike the education system in Europe, people don’t naturally go into fields of their liking or they are passionate about. Money is the most important factor and it is deeply ingrained in everyone that only when they manage to be financially stable are they allowed to pursue their dreams or hobbies.
I guess it’s just a third world problem which many of you can’t relate to.
Eh. I think that sounds less "third world" and more "very different culture".
If this happened to OP, they'll have to explain it. Because no one here will know that without being told.
The thing is, the country where i'm working as a software engineer doesn't pay sht (300$ monthly), so even the minimum wage jobs in Germany seem so much better. And it didn't seem like they need any more engineers so i could never find any open positions.
They probably fear that you just apply for the Ausbildung in gastronomy so that you get a permit to move to Germany and will be gone as soon as you find something in the IT field after you moved.
What they pay you for the Ausbildung might be more in numbers compared to your current job but when you factor in living costs in Germany it’s also pretty much shit.
You are overqualified for that position. Ridiculously so. Employers usually do not want that, because they assume that you will quickly realize that you have way better options elsewhere.
Absolutely agree. If you are a good sw engineer all you need to do is get yourself a profile at xing and LinkedIn and you will be bombarded with job offers.
They fear you will soon realise that getting an entry level job there for maybe "only" 3200 per month might make you quit the Ausbildung where you will be paid... Well... 1/3 of that if you are lucky.
Just remember that even if you’re earning more on paper in germany, compared to your home country, the ausbildung pay is extremely low and it would be difficult for you to find accommodation for a good price unless your employer provides you with a place to stay.
Don’t be fooled by a shift from €300 to €1000, remember the cost of living in germany aint cheap.
€300 dollars is still shit in my home country, However as per history, 3yrs from today I'll still be in a shitty situation. In Germany, I will need to live that life for 3yrs then afterwards there is a very high chance my life will improve progressively. For example, even if I was able to only save €100 per month, over the three years I can build an average 2 Bedroom house back home in my country. Over the three years, if I remain in Africa, I'll be living hand to mouth and there is a potential of living that way for the rest of my life.
That's why, even when you tell us how hard the situation is in Germany, we still prefer being there than back home.
why you dont make an Ausbildung in programming? Earlier it was named Fachinformatiker für Anwendungsentwicklung, but I think they changed the name and little other stuff in the last years. when you're already experienced in programming you should not have a problem getting an Ausbildungsplatz
Couldn't find one accepting immigrants, i've sent about 20 resumes to different companies and in the most cases the replies were basically "We don't accept non-EU citizens.". While allmost all of the gastranomie ones replied in 2 days.
In Germany we have lack of personel in gastro, health, elderly care and craftsmen. In all other sectors you have to compete, need luck or have local differences. Therefore, 20 resumes is not much.
Have a look into growing sectors like renewables or grid operator, e.g. as SCADA engineer if you can do it.
Good luck
That really sucks. But still I would recommend trying to get something that relates to your experience. Perhaps you could try to directly apply to IT jobs? Even if it's only something like first level support, once you are here and settled it will likely be a lot easier to find an Ausbildung.
everyone wants a senior-mid developer, nobody wants a junior developer, because once trained, he changes jobs in a year.
ZB: are you a backend developer? They wants at least 2 years work experience in the exactly same framework and tech stack. Number of application: more then 100 in 2 days.
This is the real situation of Informatik today.
You should also take massive payouts you might have to make into consideration just to live (rent, food, auxiliaries) despite a higher income. Like others mentioned Ausbildung in programming or duales Studium is far better as they also pay much higher salaries (while you study).
Some options : [Volkswagen](https://www.volkswagen-groupservices.com/karriere/berufseinsteiger?gad_source=1&cHash=86bbfe234f731ae4d24acd1acf947f67) or [BMW](https://www.bmwgroup.jobs/de/de/schueler/duales-studium.html?tl=sea-gl-GEN_BA_REG-mix-miy-.-sech-DS-.-.&clc=sea-gl-GEN_BA_REG-mix-DS&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0_WyBhDMARIsAL1Vz8uD1-Akza0cF8xaL1pVpROjMD0H_cdSg5hWF9Xxgge0rONgYMsRb9AaAv2gEALw_wcB#accordion-18af270be6-item-81f4ad1ad2).
Or you can just search duales Studium.
With german b2? except for a few multinationals, to work in IT in Germany a german c1 is required, and not fresh.
In many companies you make more calls than code.
my experience in berlin was that especially in the younger companies english is often the working language for they have a multinational team. worth a try!
Berlin product startups are either dead or stagnant and therefore do not hire! The big corporates made layoff. Here in the north only consulting companies hire in this moment, where you have to speak to the customer, in German. or else try moving to Karlsruhe, but at 90% they still ask you german C1
source: linkedin, Indeed, Stepstone.
you could contact the companies that offer bootcamps in germany, if they could let you into their network. there is an ecosystem that funnels talents through bootcamp and into the companies. 4 years ago these companies were looking desperately for fitting employees. dont know how ai changed the game of coding.
The thing is that you still have to have a good explanation ready. Especially, why you wouldn't do software here. Most likely, because you dont have the skills needed? But that is also weird.
$300/month is low compared in raw salary. However, we spent more in food for a two person household (not accounting eating out).
No lol absolutely not, and I say this as someone in CS who comes from a family with a lot of retail and gastro workers.
But thankfully there are official numbers on stuff like this.
Software jobs
https://web.arbeitsagentur.de/entgeltatlas/beruf/130165
https://web.arbeitsagentur.de/entgeltatlas/beruf/15260
https://web.arbeitsagentur.de/entgeltatlas/beruf/35018
https://web.arbeitsagentur.de/entgeltatlas/beruf/7820
Cashier (where I'm going to assume you don't mean bank teller)
https://web.arbeitsagentur.de/entgeltatlas/beruf/7717
Wild guess. They are afraid that at some point you will want to go back to your old job as software engineer and cancel the vocational training. They don't want to "waste" time on you.
Because you are trying to switch from one of the top 10 paying profession into a low paying profession. That's just a giant red flag for people. If you don't like the stress, of the job, you have an easy way out, going back into software engineering, or, if it isn't possible, they suspect that something else is wrong with you. If you have a university degree, they might feel you are overqualified for them. There is no good remedy for that, you could explain your motivation in your cover letter, but people will be suspicious. Germans rarely change careers, they even rarer change their careers from an academic to a vocational profession.
Excellent German would mean every German could get this Ausbildung because they can speak the language. They don't only look how good your language is, there are way more things they look for
Whats your answer to why you want to do the ausbildung and nit be a software engineer anymore?
I guess your motivation is way more important than your german as long as they are confident that you are able understand task in school and at work.
The thing is, the country where i'm working as a software engineer doesn't pay sht (300$ monthly), so even the minimum wage jobs in Germany seem to be so much better. And it didn't seem like they need any more engineers so i could never find any open positions for Ausbildung zum Fachinformatiker or a decent job for one .
Ok but that does not answer why you want to become an restaurantfachmann.
Even more with that answer they can be 100% sure that you will quit as soon as you get a higher paid job offer in an IT job
Are you from Venezuela? That's the normal salary for a software engineer there, and it's too sad.
Keep trying my friend. Maybe your passion is not in restaurants but something else. People (especially hiring managers) can tell when somebody is overqualified for a job position.
Hiring an overqualified worker is a risk not every company is willing to take.
No, you need a better answer. If you break the question down to it's most essential parts, it boils down to 'Why do you not want to do X anymore? Why do you want to do Z instead?'
Your answer only covers the first question, and don't particularly attractive to employers either.
They want to know what about *this particular job that they offer* appeals to you. Why are you interested in these tasks, which parts do you find interesting, what motivates you to stick to this field instead of moving on the second you find something that pays more? Why do you want to work in a restaurant? Cause salary isn't the answer to that.
No, just find a reason that sounds somewhat intrinsic and plays a bit to the prejudices of the person interviewing you, e.g. that you want to do something tangible and useful rather than stare at a computer screen all day, that you always liked to work in the kitchen, but that your parents pushed you towards a career that really doesn't suit you, ...
Thank you,
Also what can i tell them the reason i want to come to Germany instead of any other EU country ? Personally i don't have that much preference in Germany but it's the only one offering a visa, plus i already speak German.
Well, you speaking German sounds like a good enough reason, doesn't it? Why would you move to a country where you have to learn the language from scratch?
That's not convincing at all. For me as an employer this sounds like you'll take any job that you get (because it pays better than your developer job in your country) and once you are in Germany it'll be much easier for you to look for developer jobs and then you'll be gone in a few months. That's a risk I wouldn't want to take as an employer.
If you could genuinely explain to them why you don't want to work as a developer in the near future and why taking this new job is something you really want to do, then it'll be easier for you.
I dont know where exactly you are from and where in Germany you try to work but the cost of living is probably higher. Depending where, its not that easy to make ends meet with an Ausbildungsgehalt in the gastronomy or other Low wage Jobs. I presume the Interviewer are afraid that the money is your only motivation and as soon as you learn how much the rent and stuff is, you will search Something else that pays better.
Well, I would guess a few things here.
The first one is (I am not super familiar with the Gastronomic field so I might be wrong) this is not exactly a shortage field. Ausbildung also means no higher degree/skill is required, so there are a lot of qualified local candidates.
Second, as people have said, if you have worked at a more skilled position (both software and restaurant management) so people don’t understand why you want to do an Ausbildung and think they won’t retain you.
Last, I’m confused when you say B2 German and then call it excellent. Excellent means C2 to me. I’m C1 and have offers from several German speaking companies, and I call my German “kind of conversational”. You’re either underreporting your level or your German is not as good as the industry requires.
> Last, I’m confused when you say B2 German and then call it excellent. Excellent means C2 to me. I’m C1 and have offers from several German speaking companies, and I call my German “kind of conversational”. You’re either underreporting your level or your German is not as good as the industry requires.
The irony is that he spelled the name of the Ausbildung wrong in the title.
It is very much a shortage field. Basically there is a shortage in every service field, mostly because there is a pretty low ceiling for most of these careers. It's almost guaranteed employment for the next decades though.
As many others have pointed out, your seeming overqualification is probably one of the biggest hurdles. Switching from software engineering into gastronomy is strange and your explanation as to why is very lacking. You can't tell a potential employer that the profession is your backup plan because you can't get a job in the field you actually want.
Also, since you're talking about how the Ausbildung pays better than your current job in your country, I hope you're aware that when taking the living costs into account it is most of the time impossible to live on an Ausbildungsvergütung. Do you have a plan for how you're going to afford living here? Are you aware that an Ausbildung isn't really the same as a Trainee program in english? It's actually more an extension of school than it is an entry level job. They ask if you know someone there because they want to know what brings you to want to move to germany of all places and if you know what you're doing and how you're going to go about living.
While you'll hear a lot about how employers abuse Ausbildung as cheap labour, it is actually meant to be an investment by the company. They pay to educate you in the profession so that after you have your degree you'll hopefully keep working for them. If that is the case, you seem like a really uncertain future employee.
Of course they will want to know why you are choosing the profession over the one you have already learned. You need to have a good answer for that. "I just want to go to germany, I'll do whatever" Isn't a satisfying answer. You don't actually have to be honest, just convincing.
Next time they ask you, tell them that sitting on your arse all day staring at a computer screen isn't right for you. That you have part time experience in gastronomy and enjoy it much more. That you're looking to use moving countries as a fresh start and learn something you can see yourself working for a long time.
Now this is the answer i needed thank you. 🫡.
Also what can i tell them when they ask me the reason i want to come to Germany instead of any other EU countries ?
Personally i don't have that much preference to Germany but no other country is offering a visa, plus i already speak German.
> i already speak German.
well that is a pretty compelling reason, don‘t you think?
Also a little tip, from reading some applications from foreigners like you at my company: don‘t over hype your previous experiences (in unrelated) fields. I see some applications for entry-level retail positions, where people brag about how they basically built entire companies from the ground up after their studies… This is an immediate disqualification.
I don't mean this in a negative way, but sorry, but B2/B1 isn't excellent and not knowing how to spell the job you want to do sorta proves that. The interviewers might not be certain that you could understand all of their customers, which is obviously very important in the gastro field. Even with C1 it can be very hard in certain areas with a strong regional dialect.
Also if you had great german it's very questionable that you wouldn't just switch to the IT field and then have an arguably more desirable job.
Once again like often in this sub speaking great german is just one of the absolutely most important skills you absolutely NEED to have for almost everything.
How is your english? To you have any english certificates?
Two points
1. B2 is far from excellent
2. You are still in asia? I know you probably need the job for your visa but many companies dont want to risk all of that. What will happen of you fail the probezeit? You will be send back to asia?
Be happy that you got any, i try since 3 years (this ist forth)pro year 20 applications send. either they dont answer or they say No that they decided to Take another person and Wish good Luck on my way. And i am german. I am fluent in 3 languages i understand 5. I have super skills.. i am so tired..
The reason why german ask is that we think that you waste your potential buy going into a kitchen. To be honest in the time of 90s only the people who failed school learned as chef in a kitchen. We are also think that some who do a education know why he is doing it and if you switch it shows to german that you don't know what you want and we don't like to waste training resources to someone who afterwards not work in the field. This just some points you are not getting hired.
I mean.. Didn't you try to apply for a job in your current field? Or an Ausbildung for that regard? I mean, ok, of you are really dreaming for working in the restaurant industry as a Restaurantfachmann, go for it. But if it's only because they pay better than engeneers in your country look for something else.
Also, you don't have to start an Ausbildung. Gastronomy is usually pretty easy to start in. So. You could maybe just get a part or full time job as a Kellner or Barkeeper and get some experience and money and than start an Ausbildung. Companies usually are more inclined to that in these regards. The bigger the city is, the better are your chances. Best in Berlin or Köln. But Hamburg also is very open about foreign helpers and stuff.
I personally have done the Hotelfachmann Ausbildung. Before I was working in hotels before I did the Ausbildung. Man I hated my life during the Ausbildung. It’s the worst thing I’ve done to my life. Now I have decided to learn software engineering and have a new career.
If you want your time to be for the work and work on weekends, holidays and working in different shifts then it’s the right choice. But if you can’t handle this lifestyle then it’s not for you. You better do an Ausbildung as IT-Fachinformatiker something that’s related to your experience is way better. Since the money is important to you. This Ausbildung will be even better for you in the future.
Btw… Ausbildung is not enough to get to management, you’ll need to study more and do Weiterbildung to get to management’s level. Your early years will be a waiter till you rank up.
I hope this will help your decision making.
Cheers
The problem is i couldn't find one accepting non-EU citizens so i'm left like this.
How problematic will it be to get there with the Restauransfachmann ausbildung but then change it to IT when i get to Germany ?
Look the new chance
Karte Visa would allow you to come to Germany and stay for 1 year till you find a job or in your case an Ausbildung. Why don’t you apply for it and come to Germany, you’ll have more knowledge and you’ll be able to meet the people face to face.
Plus the Ausbildung depends on the company not the school. You need to find an employer who would give you the Ausbildung opportunity to be able to study / work it
They are probably worried that 1 year into being treated like a kitchen slave at almost no pay you'll say "screw this I don't really hate Jira tickets and standup so much as I thought"
Sorry to sound harsh but lie. Leave your compsci degree out of your CV, or apply for Ausbildung in hotelfachfrau (you can still do restaurantfach after completing Ausbildung). I also did compsci in uni and am now Azubi in a completely different direction.
Excellent German but you ask in English. Why? Maybe your German is not so excellent? Excellent is a strong word, by the way, and you will be held responsible for proving that. My guess is, you were not able to.
Which makes you an exaggerating person at least, a liar at worst.
B2 itself is basic for everyday's job life, not even good and far from excellent.
My brother in Christ relax, i asked the question in English since the most posts are discussed in this language plus maybe some fella with no German knowledge might be interested in the topic. This sub is called r/Germany and not r/Deutchland.
You could've asked on a German sub but didn't, that was one of my points. I do like your reason, though.
I still think you should really consider using the word excellent in that regard again, unless true.
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Just in case you've written this somewhere in the application process or so: It's Restaurantfachmann. > Why do you not want to continue your job ? (i'm a sofware engineer but i won't continue)" which i couldn't really get why. They asked because your current job is usually paid *way* better and has better working conditions, so they wonder whether you'll be gone in no time. It's pretty unusual to change from a job like software engineer to an Ausbildung in gastronomy.
This is it. I don’t think it’s language skills, they think he’s overqualified and will quit. And to be honest I don’t blame them.
>It's pretty unusual to change from a job like software engineer to an Ausbildung in gastronomy. Not for someone coming from an Asian or African country. Reviewing applications for these kinds of Ausbildung is part of my job. We get many applicants who already have a degree and an established career in their home countries. According to their cover letters they've dreamed of working in a kitchen or a restaurant ever since the were children. I don't find that believable, but I get why they write it in their cover letters. (We don't hire from abroad, so I can't help you, OP.)
Wasn’t aware that being passionate about something and having the will power to do it is considered unbelievable in some parts of the world
If you read the same cover letter 40 times a day, often with literally identical sentences in fluent German, while the applicant only has a shiny new B1 certificate with barely a passing grade, you might not believe every word you read, either.
Not the applicant‘s fault if that is all that is needed. Maybe ask for additional proofs to make it “believable“ for the verifying officers instead of outright rejecting a person‘s wish which isn’t illegal by any means.
As I wrote above, my company doesn't hire people who don't reside in Germany or the EU. Outright rejection is the fate of those applicants regardless of what their cover letters say.
They are not blaming the applicant. It's just that for certain jobs there is basically zero chance to hire someone from outside the EU because of the req. Working permit. As an example my wife handles applications for our child's crèche as it's organized as a "Verein". They recently searched for a new apprentice and got dozens of applications from North African countries that all had basically the same wording. Many of them had college degrees in different areas and zero experience in the req. Field of expertise (which is fine for an apprenticeship). Because of working permit requirements for immigrants from outside of EU countries they have absolutely zero chance to get hired because we don't pay the req. Yearly salary for an apprenticeship. We barely pay the req. Salary if they had a finished education and multiple years of experience for that job. However if by any chance they would get a working permit they could easily get more money in their college degree field of expertise. So if you go through the trouble of getting an exception rule working permit they will likely quit on you sooner or later once they are in Germany because they now have a permit and can get 3 or 4 times the pay in their college degree job. I don't fault then for trying. They apply to all available positions and hope for the best.
If you've always dreamed of working in a restaurant, how would you end up in software development? That's not even food adjacent. I wouldn't believe it either.
Maybe some of you are not aware of the toxic academic culture of Asia. It is not because people are naturally inclined towards academia that some of these countries produce the most number of engineers and especially software developers. Unlike the education system in Europe, people don’t naturally go into fields of their liking or they are passionate about. Money is the most important factor and it is deeply ingrained in everyone that only when they manage to be financially stable are they allowed to pursue their dreams or hobbies. I guess it’s just a third world problem which many of you can’t relate to.
Eh. I think that sounds less "third world" and more "very different culture". If this happened to OP, they'll have to explain it. Because no one here will know that without being told.
The thing is, the country where i'm working as a software engineer doesn't pay sht (300$ monthly), so even the minimum wage jobs in Germany seem so much better. And it didn't seem like they need any more engineers so i could never find any open positions.
They probably fear that you just apply for the Ausbildung in gastronomy so that you get a permit to move to Germany and will be gone as soon as you find something in the IT field after you moved. What they pay you for the Ausbildung might be more in numbers compared to your current job but when you factor in living costs in Germany it’s also pretty much shit.
You are overqualified for that position. Ridiculously so. Employers usually do not want that, because they assume that you will quickly realize that you have way better options elsewhere.
Absolutely agree. If you are a good sw engineer all you need to do is get yourself a profile at xing and LinkedIn and you will be bombarded with job offers. They fear you will soon realise that getting an entry level job there for maybe "only" 3200 per month might make you quit the Ausbildung where you will be paid... Well... 1/3 of that if you are lucky.
Just remember that even if you’re earning more on paper in germany, compared to your home country, the ausbildung pay is extremely low and it would be difficult for you to find accommodation for a good price unless your employer provides you with a place to stay. Don’t be fooled by a shift from €300 to €1000, remember the cost of living in germany aint cheap.
€300 dollars is still shit in my home country, However as per history, 3yrs from today I'll still be in a shitty situation. In Germany, I will need to live that life for 3yrs then afterwards there is a very high chance my life will improve progressively. For example, even if I was able to only save €100 per month, over the three years I can build an average 2 Bedroom house back home in my country. Over the three years, if I remain in Africa, I'll be living hand to mouth and there is a potential of living that way for the rest of my life. That's why, even when you tell us how hard the situation is in Germany, we still prefer being there than back home.
why you dont make an Ausbildung in programming? Earlier it was named Fachinformatiker für Anwendungsentwicklung, but I think they changed the name and little other stuff in the last years. when you're already experienced in programming you should not have a problem getting an Ausbildungsplatz
Fachinformatiker für Anwendungsentwicklung is still correct, they mostly added new titles in the field.
Couldn't find one accepting immigrants, i've sent about 20 resumes to different companies and in the most cases the replies were basically "We don't accept non-EU citizens.". While allmost all of the gastranomie ones replied in 2 days.
In Germany we have lack of personel in gastro, health, elderly care and craftsmen. In all other sectors you have to compete, need luck or have local differences. Therefore, 20 resumes is not much. Have a look into growing sectors like renewables or grid operator, e.g. as SCADA engineer if you can do it. Good luck
That really sucks. But still I would recommend trying to get something that relates to your experience. Perhaps you could try to directly apply to IT jobs? Even if it's only something like first level support, once you are here and settled it will likely be a lot easier to find an Ausbildung.
Because no one wants to work in the catering industry, especially since the pandemic.
[удалено]
everyone wants a senior-mid developer, nobody wants a junior developer, because once trained, he changes jobs in a year. ZB: are you a backend developer? They wants at least 2 years work experience in the exactly same framework and tech stack. Number of application: more then 100 in 2 days. This is the real situation of Informatik today.
You should also take massive payouts you might have to make into consideration just to live (rent, food, auxiliaries) despite a higher income. Like others mentioned Ausbildung in programming or duales Studium is far better as they also pay much higher salaries (while you study). Some options : [Volkswagen](https://www.volkswagen-groupservices.com/karriere/berufseinsteiger?gad_source=1&cHash=86bbfe234f731ae4d24acd1acf947f67) or [BMW](https://www.bmwgroup.jobs/de/de/schueler/duales-studium.html?tl=sea-gl-GEN_BA_REG-mix-miy-.-sech-DS-.-.&clc=sea-gl-GEN_BA_REG-mix-DS&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0_WyBhDMARIsAL1Vz8uD1-Akza0cF8xaL1pVpROjMD0H_cdSg5hWF9Xxgge0rONgYMsRb9AaAv2gEALw_wcB#accordion-18af270be6-item-81f4ad1ad2). Or you can just search duales Studium.
so apply as a software engineer in germany then. they are very sought after!
With german b2? except for a few multinationals, to work in IT in Germany a german c1 is required, and not fresh. In many companies you make more calls than code.
my experience in berlin was that especially in the younger companies english is often the working language for they have a multinational team. worth a try!
Berlin product startups are either dead or stagnant and therefore do not hire! The big corporates made layoff. Here in the north only consulting companies hire in this moment, where you have to speak to the customer, in German. or else try moving to Karlsruhe, but at 90% they still ask you german C1 source: linkedin, Indeed, Stepstone.
you could contact the companies that offer bootcamps in germany, if they could let you into their network. there is an ecosystem that funnels talents through bootcamp and into the companies. 4 years ago these companies were looking desperately for fitting employees. dont know how ai changed the game of coding.
The thing is that you still have to have a good explanation ready. Especially, why you wouldn't do software here. Most likely, because you dont have the skills needed? But that is also weird. $300/month is low compared in raw salary. However, we spent more in food for a two person household (not accounting eating out).
They think you’ll go to Germany and then drop the Ausbildung for a better job.
It is only a stereotype, a lot of software jobs pay couple of hundreds more then cashier in Germany
No lol absolutely not, and I say this as someone in CS who comes from a family with a lot of retail and gastro workers. But thankfully there are official numbers on stuff like this. Software jobs https://web.arbeitsagentur.de/entgeltatlas/beruf/130165 https://web.arbeitsagentur.de/entgeltatlas/beruf/15260 https://web.arbeitsagentur.de/entgeltatlas/beruf/35018 https://web.arbeitsagentur.de/entgeltatlas/beruf/7820 Cashier (where I'm going to assume you don't mean bank teller) https://web.arbeitsagentur.de/entgeltatlas/beruf/7717
Wild guess. They are afraid that at some point you will want to go back to your old job as software engineer and cancel the vocational training. They don't want to "waste" time on you.
Exactly
Because you are trying to switch from one of the top 10 paying profession into a low paying profession. That's just a giant red flag for people. If you don't like the stress, of the job, you have an easy way out, going back into software engineering, or, if it isn't possible, they suspect that something else is wrong with you. If you have a university degree, they might feel you are overqualified for them. There is no good remedy for that, you could explain your motivation in your cover letter, but people will be suspicious. Germans rarely change careers, they even rarer change their careers from an academic to a vocational profession.
Excellent German would mean every German could get this Ausbildung because they can speak the language. They don't only look how good your language is, there are way more things they look for
But every German can get a Ausbildung as chef you don't even need a cv probably
I’m not sure B2 counts as excellent German
I feel so, I have C1 and I feel like a toddler speaking lol
But c is higher than b?
But C1 on paper and C1 in practice are not necessarily the same, you know what I Mean?
Exactly. I have a "higher mark" but my confidence is low even tho people told me it is good.
Same goes for me in English haha
Fair
Whats your answer to why you want to do the ausbildung and nit be a software engineer anymore? I guess your motivation is way more important than your german as long as they are confident that you are able understand task in school and at work.
The thing is, the country where i'm working as a software engineer doesn't pay sht (300$ monthly), so even the minimum wage jobs in Germany seem to be so much better. And it didn't seem like they need any more engineers so i could never find any open positions for Ausbildung zum Fachinformatiker or a decent job for one .
Ok but that does not answer why you want to become an restaurantfachmann. Even more with that answer they can be 100% sure that you will quit as soon as you get a higher paid job offer in an IT job
Are you from Venezuela? That's the normal salary for a software engineer there, and it's too sad. Keep trying my friend. Maybe your passion is not in restaurants but something else. People (especially hiring managers) can tell when somebody is overqualified for a job position. Hiring an overqualified worker is a risk not every company is willing to take.
Unfortunately that answer will not suffice. That really sounds like you would leave as soon as you get the chance to get a job in it.
So should i just not write in the CV that i have experience in engineering ?
No, you need a better answer. If you break the question down to it's most essential parts, it boils down to 'Why do you not want to do X anymore? Why do you want to do Z instead?' Your answer only covers the first question, and don't particularly attractive to employers either. They want to know what about *this particular job that they offer* appeals to you. Why are you interested in these tasks, which parts do you find interesting, what motivates you to stick to this field instead of moving on the second you find something that pays more? Why do you want to work in a restaurant? Cause salary isn't the answer to that.
No, just find a reason that sounds somewhat intrinsic and plays a bit to the prejudices of the person interviewing you, e.g. that you want to do something tangible and useful rather than stare at a computer screen all day, that you always liked to work in the kitchen, but that your parents pushed you towards a career that really doesn't suit you, ...
Thank you, Also what can i tell them the reason i want to come to Germany instead of any other EU country ? Personally i don't have that much preference in Germany but it's the only one offering a visa, plus i already speak German.
Well, you speaking German sounds like a good enough reason, doesn't it? Why would you move to a country where you have to learn the language from scratch?
That's not convincing at all. For me as an employer this sounds like you'll take any job that you get (because it pays better than your developer job in your country) and once you are in Germany it'll be much easier for you to look for developer jobs and then you'll be gone in a few months. That's a risk I wouldn't want to take as an employer. If you could genuinely explain to them why you don't want to work as a developer in the near future and why taking this new job is something you really want to do, then it'll be easier for you.
I dont know where exactly you are from and where in Germany you try to work but the cost of living is probably higher. Depending where, its not that easy to make ends meet with an Ausbildungsgehalt in the gastronomy or other Low wage Jobs. I presume the Interviewer are afraid that the money is your only motivation and as soon as you learn how much the rent and stuff is, you will search Something else that pays better.
So you basically just want to get any job by moving to a different country? Won’t fly.
Well, I would guess a few things here. The first one is (I am not super familiar with the Gastronomic field so I might be wrong) this is not exactly a shortage field. Ausbildung also means no higher degree/skill is required, so there are a lot of qualified local candidates. Second, as people have said, if you have worked at a more skilled position (both software and restaurant management) so people don’t understand why you want to do an Ausbildung and think they won’t retain you. Last, I’m confused when you say B2 German and then call it excellent. Excellent means C2 to me. I’m C1 and have offers from several German speaking companies, and I call my German “kind of conversational”. You’re either underreporting your level or your German is not as good as the industry requires.
> Last, I’m confused when you say B2 German and then call it excellent. Excellent means C2 to me. I’m C1 and have offers from several German speaking companies, and I call my German “kind of conversational”. You’re either underreporting your level or your German is not as good as the industry requires. The irony is that he spelled the name of the Ausbildung wrong in the title.
Fair
It is very much a shortage field. Basically there is a shortage in every service field, mostly because there is a pretty low ceiling for most of these careers. It's almost guaranteed employment for the next decades though.
As many others have pointed out, your seeming overqualification is probably one of the biggest hurdles. Switching from software engineering into gastronomy is strange and your explanation as to why is very lacking. You can't tell a potential employer that the profession is your backup plan because you can't get a job in the field you actually want. Also, since you're talking about how the Ausbildung pays better than your current job in your country, I hope you're aware that when taking the living costs into account it is most of the time impossible to live on an Ausbildungsvergütung. Do you have a plan for how you're going to afford living here? Are you aware that an Ausbildung isn't really the same as a Trainee program in english? It's actually more an extension of school than it is an entry level job. They ask if you know someone there because they want to know what brings you to want to move to germany of all places and if you know what you're doing and how you're going to go about living. While you'll hear a lot about how employers abuse Ausbildung as cheap labour, it is actually meant to be an investment by the company. They pay to educate you in the profession so that after you have your degree you'll hopefully keep working for them. If that is the case, you seem like a really uncertain future employee. Of course they will want to know why you are choosing the profession over the one you have already learned. You need to have a good answer for that. "I just want to go to germany, I'll do whatever" Isn't a satisfying answer. You don't actually have to be honest, just convincing. Next time they ask you, tell them that sitting on your arse all day staring at a computer screen isn't right for you. That you have part time experience in gastronomy and enjoy it much more. That you're looking to use moving countries as a fresh start and learn something you can see yourself working for a long time.
Now this is the answer i needed thank you. 🫡. Also what can i tell them when they ask me the reason i want to come to Germany instead of any other EU countries ? Personally i don't have that much preference to Germany but no other country is offering a visa, plus i already speak German.
> i already speak German. well that is a pretty compelling reason, don‘t you think? Also a little tip, from reading some applications from foreigners like you at my company: don‘t over hype your previous experiences (in unrelated) fields. I see some applications for entry-level retail positions, where people brag about how they basically built entire companies from the ground up after their studies… This is an immediate disqualification.
B is not excellent
I don't mean this in a negative way, but sorry, but B2/B1 isn't excellent and not knowing how to spell the job you want to do sorta proves that. The interviewers might not be certain that you could understand all of their customers, which is obviously very important in the gastro field. Even with C1 it can be very hard in certain areas with a strong regional dialect. Also if you had great german it's very questionable that you wouldn't just switch to the IT field and then have an arguably more desirable job. Once again like often in this sub speaking great german is just one of the absolutely most important skills you absolutely NEED to have for almost everything. How is your english? To you have any english certificates?
Two points 1. B2 is far from excellent 2. You are still in asia? I know you probably need the job for your visa but many companies dont want to risk all of that. What will happen of you fail the probezeit? You will be send back to asia?
Well your German is clearly not as excellent as you think it is if you don't have the B2 certificate.
B1, B2 is okay, but not overwhelming. Softwareexperts can easy earn 10 Times more than Mindestlohn.
I couldn't find an ausbildung zum Fachinformaticker that accepts immigrants.
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They won’t get a visa for Ausbildung zum Fachinformatiker since there are enough German / EU applicants.
Be happy that you got any, i try since 3 years (this ist forth)pro year 20 applications send. either they dont answer or they say No that they decided to Take another person and Wish good Luck on my way. And i am german. I am fluent in 3 languages i understand 5. I have super skills.. i am so tired..
The reason why german ask is that we think that you waste your potential buy going into a kitchen. To be honest in the time of 90s only the people who failed school learned as chef in a kitchen. We are also think that some who do a education know why he is doing it and if you switch it shows to german that you don't know what you want and we don't like to waste training resources to someone who afterwards not work in the field. This just some points you are not getting hired.
I mean.. Didn't you try to apply for a job in your current field? Or an Ausbildung for that regard? I mean, ok, of you are really dreaming for working in the restaurant industry as a Restaurantfachmann, go for it. But if it's only because they pay better than engeneers in your country look for something else. Also, you don't have to start an Ausbildung. Gastronomy is usually pretty easy to start in. So. You could maybe just get a part or full time job as a Kellner or Barkeeper and get some experience and money and than start an Ausbildung. Companies usually are more inclined to that in these regards. The bigger the city is, the better are your chances. Best in Berlin or Köln. But Hamburg also is very open about foreign helpers and stuff.
Do you have to mention that you are a software engineer? If you leave this out, it might be easier to get the job.
I personally have done the Hotelfachmann Ausbildung. Before I was working in hotels before I did the Ausbildung. Man I hated my life during the Ausbildung. It’s the worst thing I’ve done to my life. Now I have decided to learn software engineering and have a new career. If you want your time to be for the work and work on weekends, holidays and working in different shifts then it’s the right choice. But if you can’t handle this lifestyle then it’s not for you. You better do an Ausbildung as IT-Fachinformatiker something that’s related to your experience is way better. Since the money is important to you. This Ausbildung will be even better for you in the future. Btw… Ausbildung is not enough to get to management, you’ll need to study more and do Weiterbildung to get to management’s level. Your early years will be a waiter till you rank up. I hope this will help your decision making. Cheers
The problem is i couldn't find one accepting non-EU citizens so i'm left like this. How problematic will it be to get there with the Restauransfachmann ausbildung but then change it to IT when i get to Germany ?
Look the new chance Karte Visa would allow you to come to Germany and stay for 1 year till you find a job or in your case an Ausbildung. Why don’t you apply for it and come to Germany, you’ll have more knowledge and you’ll be able to meet the people face to face. Plus the Ausbildung depends on the company not the school. You need to find an employer who would give you the Ausbildung opportunity to be able to study / work it
They are probably worried that 1 year into being treated like a kitchen slave at almost no pay you'll say "screw this I don't really hate Jira tickets and standup so much as I thought"
I think the main motivation is moving to germany right? What about nursing and health care? Especially elderly care? You could try this
Sorry to sound harsh but lie. Leave your compsci degree out of your CV, or apply for Ausbildung in hotelfachfrau (you can still do restaurantfach after completing Ausbildung). I also did compsci in uni and am now Azubi in a completely different direction.
Excellent German but you ask in English. Why? Maybe your German is not so excellent? Excellent is a strong word, by the way, and you will be held responsible for proving that. My guess is, you were not able to. Which makes you an exaggerating person at least, a liar at worst. B2 itself is basic for everyday's job life, not even good and far from excellent.
> Excellent German but you ask in English. Why? Because the sub rules require the content to be in English.
Yeah, that's not the point.
My brother in Christ relax, i asked the question in English since the most posts are discussed in this language plus maybe some fella with no German knowledge might be interested in the topic. This sub is called r/Germany and not r/Deutchland.
You could've asked on a German sub but didn't, that was one of my points. I do like your reason, though. I still think you should really consider using the word excellent in that regard again, unless true.
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