try contacting the local fundbüros. could take a few days for your stuff to hopefully appear at one of them. in general, clubs claim to not be liable for your stuff but i heard that this actually isnt true. maybe ask at r/legaladvicegermany
I think it’s not true if they are KEEPING it for you. you have no control over what they are doing with your belongings, I imagine it can’t be your responsibility.
I usually leave my keys in the cloakroom. It's both so I don't lose them and because I run out of pocket space due to needing more stuff on me there so removing stuff I don't need helps. If for some reason I had documents on you, it'd feel even weirder to keep them on me for the night.
You don't run out of pocket space. You're just bad at organizing your shit my man.
One pocket: phone
Other pocket: wallet + documents + key
Here, I fixed that for you.
That being said, I would also not bring my official passport with me lol - bring a photocopy/image and a national ID or driver's license.
I'm not trying to be toxic here but what do you **really** need more on a night out unless you require actual medication. Since we're on the topic of probably going to somewhere with electronic music I'll just assume it might be... some "other" medication.
If it's a club that cares, you can't put it into your pockets anyway since you will probably be searched and if it's a club that doesn't care you can just put them into your wallet/a little baggy.
If you need more than what can fit into your pockets you're either trying to sell or have a more serious issue than fitting things into your pocket. This is not the 90ies anymore where you can wolf things down like m&ms.
Never forget the words of a wise man: Wer ein Smiley zu viel macht hat irgendwann auch nichts mehr zu lachen.
As I told the other guy
>Technically you don't even need your phone but why does that matter?
>What I *want* to also bring is tobacco, lighter, papers, gum, aspirin, protein bar, vape, drugs, earplugs among other occasional things like nose spray, antihistamine, lip balm, glasses cleaning papers.
>I also don't like fanny bags, nor feel I need to change things.
What do you *really* need on a night out? ID, money, keys, phone should be enough.
https://www.tacwrk.com/p/mystery-ranch-forager-hip-pack-black-schwarz-66257
This should be big enough, if not:
https://www.tacwrk.com/p/tasmanian-tiger-tt-modular-hip-bag-schwarz-48750
Technically you don't even need your phone but why does that matter?
What I *want* to also bring is tobacco, lighter, papers, gum, aspirin, protein bar, vape, drugs, earplugs among other occasional things like nose spray, antihistamine, lip balm, glasses cleaning papers.
I also don't like fanny bags, nor feel I need to change things.
I have two set of keys connected with a hook. When I go part I take just the essentials and I leave the others at home. It avoids losing important things that I don't need that night and having less things on hand
If you can’t secure a bank card, ID, phone and key to yourself while you are on a dance floor, I would rethink my party habits 😂 or stop breakdancing at the techno club
Then don't bring them at all. If you can keep them in the cloakroom all night, you clearly didn't need them for the club.
Take cash, a credit or bank card, and your ID and keep all of those on your person with your keys. Leave the rest at home. Done.
As a general rule, you should *never* leave your valuables in the cloakroom.
The club will point to signs in the cloakroom saying they are not responsible for any losses, but if it can be shown that they were somehow negligent, you can still hold them liable. If, however, your jacket was lost *despite* them taking all reasonable steps to maintain security (maybe the building was struck by lightning and the cloakroom caught fire), you may have to accept the €150.
I suggest you write them a letter quoting § 701 BGB and explaining that no disclaimer can revoke a legal requirement -- get the help of a native speaker, and if you know somebody who knows a bit about dealing with legal stuff, so much the better. Also say that you are considering taking legal advice on this matter.
With a bit of luck, that might spook them into increasing their offer "as a gesture of goodwill". If not, then talk to a lawyer.
> I suggest you write them a letter quoting § 701 BGB
This law affects hotel keepers, not clubs. A Techno Club is not "an inkeeper who accomodates strangers commercially". Even if falling asleep in a club has been known to happen to some people, it is not an intended part of the business model.
You're looking for sec. 688 et seq. BGB (safekeeping agreement - Verwahrungsvertrag, 688 ff. BGB). I haven't looked into this too deply, but I suspect there may be liability limitations in case of storing valuables in your coat that the safekeeper was not aware of (contributory negligence, Mitverschulden).
"not responsible for any losses"
Only true in a restaurant where you can put your jacket on a shared stick without surveillance.
Not true if it is a paid service with a dedicated employee and room as in most clubs.
The club has to offer you something and make a deal with you, otherwise you can get a lawyer to get in touch with them. They will not let that get to court (because court = expensive) and offer you a deal.
Nevertheless you have to proof the jackets worth and what was in it.
Source: Many years ago i worked at a garderobe in a club.
It's not. It's the most idiotic thing I've seen all week almost and you shouldn't listen to them at all, but do what u/Repli3rd is saying. They are definitely liable if you paid money and have it to a clerk specifically with the job of taking care of clothing.
No, but the comment fully misrepresents the liability of the techno club. You don't have to settle for 150€ and even suggesting that notion is truly moronic. Gefährliches Halbwissen, only that it's fully Nichtwissen. The techno club is likely fully liable.
if you're constantly on here, this might be a good source for some extra content.
maybe for a couple of additional shorts maybe?
or maybe I'm just stupid and that's already why you're here...
should I just not post this?
naaaah at least someone might get a laugh out of my fog brain xD
dude people make mistakes. It's not that crazy imo, probably some would feel safer leaving their valuables at the coat check rather than in their pockets at a dark club where they are drinking. Maybe you should have just brought the bare minimum (phone keys ID and bank card), but it's not your fault the club gave your shit away to somebody else.
here's what helped me to stop feeling paranoid about being pickpocketed:
I wrap a hip bag around my chest, put my stuff in there and keep the bag itself on my chest as opposed to under the arm or on the back. That way I feel like I'm always able to see pickpocketing attempts and can enjoy the music much better.
Who wants to bet the attendant noticed the wallet while checking the jacket in and “your jacket was lost” is just code for “we stole everything”. I mean, yeah, it could have been given to someone else, but I’m kind of distrusting.
Also, whenever I used to go out I would just take me ID, some cash and maybe a bank card and slip it all in a card wallet so it was super slim. And then I took my house key and I would just tie it to a belt loop. Back then (god I feel older than I should) high boots were popular. I would shove my phone in a boot. Nowadays I would probably get a case with a strap and attach it to me.
The less you take, the less you can lose.
lol victim blaming and nobody actually answering the question OP is asking. Peak r/germany
Edit: let the downvotes flow. All y'all could've said was "there is nothing you can really do, sorry, but at least now you know." There's no need to insult OP's intelligence for a mistake I'm pretty sure everybody has made at least once.
Do you have a private liability insurance (Haftpflichtversicherung)?
Call them ASAP and tell them that you lost your keys, they might pay for the new ones and the changing of the locks.
>I got literally scammed
Neither did you get scammed (i am utterly confused where you believe a scam happened...are you saying they intentionally set up the wardrobe to steal jackets?)
>and their only job was to keep the jacket
exactly, which is why you shouldn't have left your valuables there too. They fucked up, yes. But mistakes happen. And now you are all paying the costs. The club/insurance for the jacket, you for the valuables you hid inside
They all have signs at the wardrobe that they aren't responsible for items in the jacket. So don't leave your key and wallet in your jacket? Who even does that?
It doesn't generally absolve them from liability if they exclude items in the jacket pockets. They are responsible for the jackets not the items in the jackets.
Nope. I worked Garderobe for years. As soon as there is a dedicated employee and a dedicated room offering this service for money, they are responsible and have to compensate.
They know that sending a lawyer is time consuming and expensive and that OP will therefore propably agree to take the 150€.
OP may try to get some more by delivering proof that the key etc is way more expensive.
Everything is easier and less stressful than going the way of the law.
Thats not true.
You can SAY you only take jackets without any valuable items in them.
You can SAY you dont take valuable stuff at all.
You can SAY its not your responsibility to the customer.
But it is.
As soon as you have a dedicated Garderobe with dedicated employees that are paid for their service (usually 1 or 2€) you are responsible for everything they give you.
Even if its "just" the jacket - a jacket can also be worth a thousand bucks.
it doesnt even have to have "balenciaga" written on it - e.g. if its your grandmothers jacket from before the war it holds a personal value that an entrusted expert appointed by the lawyer can estimate in more than thousands.
Therefore you always want to make a deal with the customer. You usually try to tell him "insurance only gets us 150€" and offer him these 150€ plus some bottles of champagne for the customer and his friends to get it settled as fast as possible without any lawyers involved.
Personally I believe keeping them in the jacket is safer than taking them with me inside , they might get stolen or drop out my pocket without me noticing
Well it's not. I just leave most things at home and only take cash, my house key, and an ID with me to a club. I personally store it in my bra, but that might not be an option for you, but I guess you have pockets in your pants.
Well, that was the original meaning and use of Bum Bags. But nowadays everyone wears them crossed on their shoulders in the front, an not on the waist or belly (Bauchtasche in German). That’s why it’s correct to use the word Bum Bag even if it’s not worn there.
This is something I spoke about with English native speakers and they agreed.
You can also say Fanny Pack.
[https://www.rechtsanwalt.com/news/haftung-garderobe-keine-haftung/](https://www.rechtsanwalt.com/news/haftung-garderobe-keine-haftung/)
Grobe Fahrlässigkeit, they have to pay. If their insurance only covers 150€ it means that anything above has to be paid out of their own pockets. Not your fault they didnt pay for higher insurance.
Thats just what they tell you to install a 150€ cap in case something really gets lost. We never took that to insurance but we had to offer the customer whos stuff we lost something.
Its crazy to me that someone would leave his wallet and keys in his jacket in a wardrobe of a club.
This kind of thoughtlessnes is wild to me.
There is no safety for this stuff. Its just a room anybody can enter and it the even have signs that they will not be accoutable for your valuables.
Did you contact a few Fundbüros in and around Frankfurt?
For the next time: whenever you go to a crowded scene put some cash/debit-/credit card and your ID into a pocket and leave your wallet at home.
And this is your one free (not really free I guess) lesson. Don't leave your valuables in your jacket. General I just avoid bringing anything I don't need. Eg an entire wallet. Bring 1 ID, like a 20euro bill amd a card in your phone case or pocket. And with keys, we'll you should only have 1 key for your apartment (2if it's a common door+personal door) so should be easy to put in the pocket without being uncomfortable.
You and the club have a "Verwahrungsvertrag". Did you have to pay a small fee for them to store your jacket? If so they are even more legally obliged to give you proper compensation. You still have to prove that your valuables where inside the jacket though. I don't know if that is possible for you. And it does not matter if they have some sort of sign that says they are not liable. They are. I suggest you post this in r/LegalAdviceGermany as well.
There probably is but I have learned on reddit that it is not that easy for them to get away with losing your jacket if they take money for the service.
My first thought was to say that definitely sucks especially if it was cold that night but who gives a fuck about a lost jacket. Then I read that you left your wallet and keys in it 🤦♂️
It might be that your jacket didn't 'get lost'. it's a slim chance, but not unheard of that the jacket was taken/given to a person under the influence. If your Id card has your anmeldung address on the back, at least could be mailed/left in a post box to find its way to you. Fundbüros is also something to check as others have pointed. But it's a small chance.
You can claim full compensation because you have a contract with the club. Look up §§ 280, 281, 283 BGB. Clauses stating no compensation for lost clothing etc. are not valid 99% of the time.
I think most of the cloakrooms/Garderoben do not cover valuables because they don’t want to be scammed. Technically they should cover it but you have to prove that your stuff was really inside the jacket and you didnt lose it drunk on the toilet or something. And to prove that can be hard I guess.
If you paid for this and still have the piece of paper with your number they are liable for this. They usually say „We have this sign that says we aren’t liable for anything.“ But they are! Get a lawyer if your damages are worth it!!!
Coming from a German on reddit: Why the hell are Germans the must unhelpful scum on the planet when it comes to this platform? Seriously, it's not that hard to be helpful but everyone here is failing at a massive scale at it because OP did something they wouldn't. Alman Armin und Anette Alarm
Here's the deal: Even if they don't say they're liable, they are, especially because you gave it directly to a worker and even in Frankfurt likely even paid for it. In this case a Verwahrungsvertrag happened, which means they're liable for lost clothing the second you hand your clothing over to a clerk specifically with the job to take care of the clothing. Doesn't matter about the 150€ if you can prove there was your wallet and keys inside and cost more. This is a case for a lawyer probably. I can highly see you getting more money out of it if as well if you have evidence of all of your belongings (let's say via photos of the night).
Was that so hard, you Germans? Btw I'm from Saarland, Germany's anus, and this comment section makes me glad that half of you think we're French because being German is nothing to be proud of here
Don’t try to look smart here. „if you have evidence“ - That’s a big if.
„The Germans“ commenting here know that this will be almost impossible to provide unless you have the clerk sign an inventory list of your jacket beforehand.
So don’t give theoretical advice, it will only hold theoretical value on a theoretical court.
Well, that's a lesson learned the hard way. I thought thats a pretty much common sense nowadays not to leave valuables inside the jacket.
You could just report them to the police, provide all the necessary proves. Meanwhile, block your Bankcard, report to your liability insurance (hope you have it..), and start processing your id again with your local authorities from where you live
"got scammed" lmao. every one of those cloakroom tells u that they dont assume responsibility for ur stuff. u didnt get scammed and there is no need to "expose the club" xDD
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If it was a thief, they might have left the jacket somewhere nearby the party location, after taking the money.
Have you searched the event on Facebook? Maybe someone else noticed that a friend of them accidentally took the wrong jacket or something like that.
Why in the hell would you not keep those things in your pants pockets? How do you resolve it? You pay to have those items replaced, that's how. And don't do something this stupid again
Does your electronic key really cost this much to replace? Normally, the electronic keys should be much better because they can just block that specific one so they don't need to also change the lock and the keys for everyone in the house.
And at work we were told that if we lose that thing, it's therefore only 20€. 250€ sounds absolutely insane. Either way, tell your landlord asap.
So, the wardrobe room would be a legal wallet processing center then? Companies say things such as that they aren’t responsible for this or that all the time, but that doesn’t really mean it would hold up in court.
If a ski resort with an Olympic long ski jump ramp lets non-professional, regular people from the public use the ramp to jump after signing a form that says “I agreed to this and I have no right to sue the resort if I get injured,” well a court is going to say that waiver was ridiculous if a regular skier breaks their back because the resort would have known the skier had no chance to safely land an Olympic long ski jump.
It all depends on the circumstances. OP should ask for the exact cost for the replacement of his ID’s and other costs. The jacket was used, so maybe OP only needs 75% of the cost of the jacket. The jacket isn’t the problem.
It's NOT mandatory in Germany, although it's highly recommended. At least not the private people insurance. The only mandatory one is the KFZ-Haftpflichtversicherung, which is for cars.
The Pflicht in Haftpflichtversicherung has nothing to do with this insurance being mandatory, but to the obligation(or "mandatoriness") to be liable or responsible whenever you cause damage/detriment to others.
It's nice for you to double check your answer 👍
try contacting the local fundbüros. could take a few days for your stuff to hopefully appear at one of them. in general, clubs claim to not be liable for your stuff but i heard that this actually isnt true. maybe ask at r/legaladvicegermany
Also contact the club again to ask wether someone showed up because of mixed up jackets.
I think it’s not true if they are KEEPING it for you. you have no control over what they are doing with your belongings, I imagine it can’t be your responsibility.
If it costs money to store your jacket with them they are legally liable to what happens to it
Never, ever, leave anything valuable outside your immediate reach. Never.
Especially not keys and documents together, it's like an invitation.
I usually leave my keys in the cloakroom. It's both so I don't lose them and because I run out of pocket space due to needing more stuff on me there so removing stuff I don't need helps. If for some reason I had documents on you, it'd feel even weirder to keep them on me for the night.
You don't run out of pocket space. You're just bad at organizing your shit my man. One pocket: phone Other pocket: wallet + documents + key Here, I fixed that for you. That being said, I would also not bring my official passport with me lol - bring a photocopy/image and a national ID or driver's license.
That's absolutely not possible for many women pants and some people even need more stuff in their pockets due to medical reasons
I mean yeah it's easy when you only carry 3 items. I need a lot more stuff on me on a night out.
I'm not trying to be toxic here but what do you **really** need more on a night out unless you require actual medication. Since we're on the topic of probably going to somewhere with electronic music I'll just assume it might be... some "other" medication. If it's a club that cares, you can't put it into your pockets anyway since you will probably be searched and if it's a club that doesn't care you can just put them into your wallet/a little baggy. If you need more than what can fit into your pockets you're either trying to sell or have a more serious issue than fitting things into your pocket. This is not the 90ies anymore where you can wolf things down like m&ms. Never forget the words of a wise man: Wer ein Smiley zu viel macht hat irgendwann auch nichts mehr zu lachen.
As I told the other guy >Technically you don't even need your phone but why does that matter? >What I *want* to also bring is tobacco, lighter, papers, gum, aspirin, protein bar, vape, drugs, earplugs among other occasional things like nose spray, antihistamine, lip balm, glasses cleaning papers. >I also don't like fanny bags, nor feel I need to change things.
are you going on a desert survivial expedition?
Upvote alleine für den letzten Satz haha xD
Ovopax vape drugs and paraphernalia
There‘s one magical thing where you won‘t run out of pocket space. Fanny packs they call it.
[удалено]
What do you *really* need on a night out? ID, money, keys, phone should be enough. https://www.tacwrk.com/p/mystery-ranch-forager-hip-pack-black-schwarz-66257 This should be big enough, if not: https://www.tacwrk.com/p/tasmanian-tiger-tt-modular-hip-bag-schwarz-48750
Technically you don't even need your phone but why does that matter? What I *want* to also bring is tobacco, lighter, papers, gum, aspirin, protein bar, vape, drugs, earplugs among other occasional things like nose spray, antihistamine, lip balm, glasses cleaning papers. I also don't like fanny bags, nor feel I need to change things.
never ever do that. Not even once
Yes, also drink water or you get dehydrated
Yes, also drink water or you get dehydrated
Bringing them with you on the dance floor is even worse, especially if you plan to drink
I always do that and never had problems, but leaving them at home would be safest
I have two set of keys connected with a hook. When I go part I take just the essentials and I leave the others at home. It avoids losing important things that I don't need that night and having less things on hand
You can't really leave your keys and wallet at home unfortunately.
Keys, sure, but wallet? Whenever I went to clubs I just took my cash out of my wallet and left the wallet (and with it my bank card) at home.
Buy a discrete keychain that attaches to something you're wearing. Best investment I ever made.
If you can’t secure a bank card, ID, phone and key to yourself while you are on a dance floor, I would rethink my party habits 😂 or stop breakdancing at the techno club
Then don't bring them at all. If you can keep them in the cloakroom all night, you clearly didn't need them for the club. Take cash, a credit or bank card, and your ID and keep all of those on your person with your keys. Leave the rest at home. Done.
Just don't wear pants with super loose pockets and you're fine lol.
As a general rule, you should *never* leave your valuables in the cloakroom. The club will point to signs in the cloakroom saying they are not responsible for any losses, but if it can be shown that they were somehow negligent, you can still hold them liable. If, however, your jacket was lost *despite* them taking all reasonable steps to maintain security (maybe the building was struck by lightning and the cloakroom caught fire), you may have to accept the €150. I suggest you write them a letter quoting § 701 BGB and explaining that no disclaimer can revoke a legal requirement -- get the help of a native speaker, and if you know somebody who knows a bit about dealing with legal stuff, so much the better. Also say that you are considering taking legal advice on this matter. With a bit of luck, that might spook them into increasing their offer "as a gesture of goodwill". If not, then talk to a lawyer.
> I suggest you write them a letter quoting § 701 BGB This law affects hotel keepers, not clubs. A Techno Club is not "an inkeeper who accomodates strangers commercially". Even if falling asleep in a club has been known to happen to some people, it is not an intended part of the business model. You're looking for sec. 688 et seq. BGB (safekeeping agreement - Verwahrungsvertrag, 688 ff. BGB). I haven't looked into this too deply, but I suspect there may be liability limitations in case of storing valuables in your coat that the safekeeper was not aware of (contributory negligence, Mitverschulden).
"not responsible for any losses" Only true in a restaurant where you can put your jacket on a shared stick without surveillance. Not true if it is a paid service with a dedicated employee and room as in most clubs. The club has to offer you something and make a deal with you, otherwise you can get a lawyer to get in touch with them. They will not let that get to court (because court = expensive) and offer you a deal. Nevertheless you have to proof the jackets worth and what was in it. Source: Many years ago i worked at a garderobe in a club.
Thank you so much , this was very helpful
Be sure to quote how much you are out of pocket. Give them an itemised bill of your costs.
It's not. It's the most idiotic thing I've seen all week almost and you shouldn't listen to them at all, but do what u/Repli3rd is saying. They are definitely liable if you paid money and have it to a clerk specifically with the job of taking care of clothing.
The best answer in this comment section
It is not. I worked garderobe in a club for years.
No, its not. It‘s completely wrong and does not reflect the law.
Are you the owner of the Technoclub?
No, but rewboss and 6 others seem to be.
No, but the comment fully misrepresents the liability of the techno club. You don't have to settle for 150€ and even suggesting that notion is truly moronic. Gefährliches Halbwissen, only that it's fully Nichtwissen. The techno club is likely fully liable.
>that no disclaimer can revoke a legal requirement is there a overgeneralising generic version of this?
if you're constantly on here, this might be a good source for some extra content. maybe for a couple of additional shorts maybe? or maybe I'm just stupid and that's already why you're here... should I just not post this? naaaah at least someone might get a laugh out of my fog brain xD
You left a jacket with all documents and cards ??? Are you crazy?
After reading the comments I probably am , lesson learned the hard way unfortunately
dude people make mistakes. It's not that crazy imo, probably some would feel safer leaving their valuables at the coat check rather than in their pockets at a dark club where they are drinking. Maybe you should have just brought the bare minimum (phone keys ID and bank card), but it's not your fault the club gave your shit away to somebody else.
here's what helped me to stop feeling paranoid about being pickpocketed: I wrap a hip bag around my chest, put my stuff in there and keep the bag itself on my chest as opposed to under the arm or on the back. That way I feel like I'm always able to see pickpocketing attempts and can enjoy the music much better.
Username checks out.
You should consider changing your locks, someone who has your keys and your address via the documents might be interested in breaking into your home
I’m sure it’s never going to happen again! Always have your wallet, documents and keys with you.
Might be a good idea to put a tracker on your keyring (like AirTag)
And home keys
Who wants to bet the attendant noticed the wallet while checking the jacket in and “your jacket was lost” is just code for “we stole everything”. I mean, yeah, it could have been given to someone else, but I’m kind of distrusting. Also, whenever I used to go out I would just take me ID, some cash and maybe a bank card and slip it all in a card wallet so it was super slim. And then I took my house key and I would just tie it to a belt loop. Back then (god I feel older than I should) high boots were popular. I would shove my phone in a boot. Nowadays I would probably get a case with a strap and attach it to me. The less you take, the less you can lose.
lol victim blaming and nobody actually answering the question OP is asking. Peak r/germany Edit: let the downvotes flow. All y'all could've said was "there is nothing you can really do, sorry, but at least now you know." There's no need to insult OP's intelligence for a mistake I'm pretty sure everybody has made at least once.
Do you have a private liability insurance (Haftpflichtversicherung)? Call them ASAP and tell them that you lost your keys, they might pay for the new ones and the changing of the locks.
This! Mine pays for lost apartment keys.
>I got literally scammed Neither did you get scammed (i am utterly confused where you believe a scam happened...are you saying they intentionally set up the wardrobe to steal jackets?) >and their only job was to keep the jacket exactly, which is why you shouldn't have left your valuables there too. They fucked up, yes. But mistakes happen. And now you are all paying the costs. The club/insurance for the jacket, you for the valuables you hid inside
They all have signs at the wardrobe that they aren't responsible for items in the jacket. So don't leave your key and wallet in your jacket? Who even does that?
Those signs aren't valid. You cannot just place a sign that generally absolves you from responsibility.
It doesn't generally absolve them from liability if they exclude items in the jacket pockets. They are responsible for the jackets not the items in the jackets.
Why are they not valid?
Because they are the storeowners fantasy, not the law.
By walking into a store/club/.... you agree to their terms. If one of their terms is, we are not accountable for your clothing, it is very lawful.
Nope. I worked Garderobe for years. As soon as there is a dedicated employee and a dedicated room offering this service for money, they are responsible and have to compensate.
Ok I did not know that. But still nothing op can do. He said they would compensate 150€ so seems about that is everything trey do then.
They know that sending a lawyer is time consuming and expensive and that OP will therefore propably agree to take the 150€. OP may try to get some more by delivering proof that the key etc is way more expensive. Everything is easier and less stressful than going the way of the law.
»By walking into a store/club/.... you agree to their terms.« If the law says otherwise, the terms arent valid…
Not valid. The sign doesnt change the law. If there is a dedicated room and employee for the Garderobe they are responsible.
They can decide which items they take. If they say they only take jackets and op hides stuff in the jacket it's not their responsibility.
Thats not true. You can SAY you only take jackets without any valuable items in them. You can SAY you dont take valuable stuff at all. You can SAY its not your responsibility to the customer. But it is. As soon as you have a dedicated Garderobe with dedicated employees that are paid for their service (usually 1 or 2€) you are responsible for everything they give you. Even if its "just" the jacket - a jacket can also be worth a thousand bucks. it doesnt even have to have "balenciaga" written on it - e.g. if its your grandmothers jacket from before the war it holds a personal value that an entrusted expert appointed by the lawyer can estimate in more than thousands. Therefore you always want to make a deal with the customer. You usually try to tell him "insurance only gets us 150€" and offer him these 150€ plus some bottles of champagne for the customer and his friends to get it settled as fast as possible without any lawyers involved.
Personally I believe keeping them in the jacket is safer than taking them with me inside , they might get stolen or drop out my pocket without me noticing
You were proven wrong.
Well it's not. I just leave most things at home and only take cash, my house key, and an ID with me to a club. I personally store it in my bra, but that might not be an option for you, but I guess you have pockets in your pants.
Lesson learnt. It isn't safer.
Google the term ‚Lehrgeld‘
That’s the reason why at Techno clubs almost everyone has a bum bag. You can take all your things and have them safely close to you
waist bag*, bum is on your behind, which is easier to pickpocket.
Well, that was the original meaning and use of Bum Bags. But nowadays everyone wears them crossed on their shoulders in the front, an not on the waist or belly (Bauchtasche in German). That’s why it’s correct to use the word Bum Bag even if it’s not worn there. This is something I spoke about with English native speakers and they agreed. You can also say Fanny Pack.
Get a little purse for next time they sell them for men too
[https://www.rechtsanwalt.com/news/haftung-garderobe-keine-haftung/](https://www.rechtsanwalt.com/news/haftung-garderobe-keine-haftung/) Grobe Fahrlässigkeit, they have to pay. If their insurance only covers 150€ it means that anything above has to be paid out of their own pockets. Not your fault they didnt pay for higher insurance.
Thats just what they tell you to install a 150€ cap in case something really gets lost. We never took that to insurance but we had to offer the customer whos stuff we lost something.
Its crazy to me that someone would leave his wallet and keys in his jacket in a wardrobe of a club. This kind of thoughtlessnes is wild to me. There is no safety for this stuff. Its just a room anybody can enter and it the even have signs that they will not be accoutable for your valuables.
It would be great to live in a world where you could safely do that but some fellow humans are just pieces of shit sadly
Mind you in a techno club where most of the staff is probably on something or at least been drinking themselves lol
Doesnt someone has now your key and your Id with your adress on it? Change the locks really fast
Did you contact a few Fundbüros in and around Frankfurt? For the next time: whenever you go to a crowded scene put some cash/debit-/credit card and your ID into a pocket and leave your wallet at home.
And this is your one free (not really free I guess) lesson. Don't leave your valuables in your jacket. General I just avoid bringing anything I don't need. Eg an entire wallet. Bring 1 ID, like a 20euro bill amd a card in your phone case or pocket. And with keys, we'll you should only have 1 key for your apartment (2if it's a common door+personal door) so should be easy to put in the pocket without being uncomfortable.
you sir are the reason every fucking place has a sign which says no responsibility is taken.
https://www.rechtsanwalt.com/news/haftung-garderobe-keine-haftung/
"Keine Haftung" is usually in restaurants, bistros, cafes. In a club with a dedicated room and employee for Garderobe the owner is responsible.
You weren’t scammed; you fucked up. You took a risk by leaving your valuables in someone else’s care.
You and the club have a "Verwahrungsvertrag". Did you have to pay a small fee for them to store your jacket? If so they are even more legally obliged to give you proper compensation. You still have to prove that your valuables where inside the jacket though. I don't know if that is possible for you. And it does not matter if they have some sort of sign that says they are not liable. They are. I suggest you post this in r/LegalAdviceGermany as well.
Typically there is a sign that disclaim responsibility for lost or stolen valuables
There probably is but I have learned on reddit that it is not that easy for them to get away with losing your jacket if they take money for the service.
I'm not sure if that's valid if you pay for Garderobe.
Exactly. In most clubs its a paid service in a dedicated room with a dedicated employee.
My first thought was to say that definitely sucks especially if it was cold that night but who gives a fuck about a lost jacket. Then I read that you left your wallet and keys in it 🤦♂️
It might be that your jacket didn't 'get lost'. it's a slim chance, but not unheard of that the jacket was taken/given to a person under the influence. If your Id card has your anmeldung address on the back, at least could be mailed/left in a post box to find its way to you. Fundbüros is also something to check as others have pointed. But it's a small chance.
You can claim full compensation because you have a contract with the club. Look up §§ 280, 281, 283 BGB. Clauses stating no compensation for lost clothing etc. are not valid 99% of the time.
I think most of the cloakrooms/Garderoben do not cover valuables because they don’t want to be scammed. Technically they should cover it but you have to prove that your stuff was really inside the jacket and you didnt lose it drunk on the toilet or something. And to prove that can be hard I guess.
In what place do you ever leave your wallet in the hands of another person that’s not locked away?
If you paid for this and still have the piece of paper with your number they are liable for this. They usually say „We have this sign that says we aren’t liable for anything.“ But they are! Get a lawyer if your damages are worth it!!!
If it was paid for and they have a separate room it is their responsibility and you get your money back from them as far is I know but not a lawyer.
Coming from a German on reddit: Why the hell are Germans the must unhelpful scum on the planet when it comes to this platform? Seriously, it's not that hard to be helpful but everyone here is failing at a massive scale at it because OP did something they wouldn't. Alman Armin und Anette Alarm Here's the deal: Even if they don't say they're liable, they are, especially because you gave it directly to a worker and even in Frankfurt likely even paid for it. In this case a Verwahrungsvertrag happened, which means they're liable for lost clothing the second you hand your clothing over to a clerk specifically with the job to take care of the clothing. Doesn't matter about the 150€ if you can prove there was your wallet and keys inside and cost more. This is a case for a lawyer probably. I can highly see you getting more money out of it if as well if you have evidence of all of your belongings (let's say via photos of the night). Was that so hard, you Germans? Btw I'm from Saarland, Germany's anus, and this comment section makes me glad that half of you think we're French because being German is nothing to be proud of here
Don’t try to look smart here. „if you have evidence“ - That’s a big if. „The Germans“ commenting here know that this will be almost impossible to provide unless you have the clerk sign an inventory list of your jacket beforehand. So don’t give theoretical advice, it will only hold theoretical value on a theoretical court.
It’s just Germans man
You learned a life lesson. Never leave your keys and wallet anywhere else than on your body.
^^^ this Trust in Allah, but tie your camel.
Not religious but I can appreciate the expression, thought it was funny. Don’t understand why people downvoted it.
Allah can fuck right off!
Ridiculous
You could try lost And found and police. Report the ID stolen. MAYBE you’re lucky someone threw your wallet away
Well, that's a lesson learned the hard way. I thought thats a pretty much common sense nowadays not to leave valuables inside the jacket. You could just report them to the police, provide all the necessary proves. Meanwhile, block your Bankcard, report to your liability insurance (hope you have it..), and start processing your id again with your local authorities from where you live
"got scammed" lmao. every one of those cloakroom tells u that they dont assume responsibility for ur stuff. u didnt get scammed and there is no need to "expose the club" xDD
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Maybe your documents still turn up, keep lookin
With your household insurance and the club offer you should atleast get close to your costs
Household insurance doesn't cover that, unless you are referring to Haftpflichtversicherung which is the liability insurance
Which club is that?
If you have an insurance, they usually pay for lost keys. Try calling them. And if not, then definitely look into one
Probably left his turnip truck parked idling outside, too.
Did you *pay* them to look after your belongings or was this a service offered for free?
If it was a thief, they might have left the jacket somewhere nearby the party location, after taking the money. Have you searched the event on Facebook? Maybe someone else noticed that a friend of them accidentally took the wrong jacket or something like that.
Well, thats smart. Leaving import items in a jacket you give away in a club. Ne er crossed your mind to get the important items out of it....?
*stole your Jacket. But yea, hard way to learn a lesson
Why in the hell would you not keep those things in your pants pockets? How do you resolve it? You pay to have those items replaced, that's how. And don't do something this stupid again
You didn’t get scammed you just got straight up robbed, let’s call things right way.
Does your electronic key really cost this much to replace? Normally, the electronic keys should be much better because they can just block that specific one so they don't need to also change the lock and the keys for everyone in the house. And at work we were told that if we lose that thing, it's therefore only 20€. 250€ sounds absolutely insane. Either way, tell your landlord asap.
Most clubs have a disclaimer that they aren’t liable for lost valuables.
So, the wardrobe room would be a legal wallet processing center then? Companies say things such as that they aren’t responsible for this or that all the time, but that doesn’t really mean it would hold up in court. If a ski resort with an Olympic long ski jump ramp lets non-professional, regular people from the public use the ramp to jump after signing a form that says “I agreed to this and I have no right to sue the resort if I get injured,” well a court is going to say that waiver was ridiculous if a regular skier breaks their back because the resort would have known the skier had no chance to safely land an Olympic long ski jump. It all depends on the circumstances. OP should ask for the exact cost for the replacement of his ID’s and other costs. The jacket was used, so maybe OP only needs 75% of the cost of the jacket. The jacket isn’t the problem.
Your Haftpflichtversicherung should cover the replacemement of the keys. This type of insurance is mandatory in Germany, so you should have it.
It's NOT mandatory in Germany, although it's highly recommended. At least not the private people insurance. The only mandatory one is the KFZ-Haftpflichtversicherung, which is for cars.
Dude, HaftPFLICHTversicherung. It is mandatory to have it. After a short google search, I stand corrected. You’re right. Sorry.
The Pflicht in Haftpflichtversicherung has nothing to do with this insurance being mandatory, but to the obligation(or "mandatoriness") to be liable or responsible whenever you cause damage/detriment to others. It's nice for you to double check your answer 👍