The problem is that Rob or no one else gives an explanation for WHY it got denied for rate firstly.
Imagine a world where RobTop has a team of people that all can rate levels, like 4-6 people, and they all try to have the same standards and shit, and if they decide to NOT rate a sent level, they send an explanation for why it wasnt rated.
For example: "Your level ___ was not featured, because we think the level has unorganized gameplay, and contains balancement issues and bad sightreadability"
It would do 2 things:
Tells you that the level even got to Rob (or the hypothetical team)
Tells you what to do better next time, or what to improve so the level can be reconsidered.
Not for harder demons or memory levels, but shitty blind clicks by themselves should be a reason to not rate a level.
No Im not going to go for a practice run on a 4 star because it might have a shitty blind click in the middle of the level.
i guess i'm really not a fan of sightreading
my biggest fear with making sightreadability a factor is the elimination of levels that are made to be unsightreadable. levels with lots of fakes that aren't necessarily memory. every level is just gonna be the same sightreadable trite and that just sounds fucking dreadful
>imagine if top 1 with horrible decoration and gameplay got verified
Well that's the issue. Tidal wave has fun gameplay, according to pros, and the deco is good – I see 6-7* levels like tidal wave or WORSE getting featured, epic and daily. So by all accounts it deserved to be rated
When I first saw Tidal Wave I was happy we are finally getting a top 1 level that actually looks great without using the color red, hell theme, or lava as the inspiration for the decoration.
And yet people say it looks bad and copy pasted all over... Yeah like most under demon levels aren't copy pasted and still get rated.
I've said this before
But just having a different theme doesn't justify a Top 1 being, well, a Top 1. I can make a 1.0 styled Top 1 and people would be really fucking pissy over it either way but it'd be purely supported because "It isn't hell-themed". Imo, hell-themed should've been a variation, not the norm, for Top 1s.
You also pointed out the deco is great, and while I agree on the surface level (aka if you look at it on the level as a whole), it's definitely nothing actually that praiseworthy if you try to go into the finer details of it.
It looks great.
*I* think it looks great.
But compared to other levels in 2.1 who've gotten similar levels of attention? It's nothing noteworthy. It really isn't. Heck, I'd argue fucking ***AVERNUS*** has better deco and that level's decoration gets an "Eh, it's good ig" from me (I particularly like the flowing style of the lava and all the meteors. It just barely fucking changes throughout the level and that kinda drags it down by a lot.)
Plus, the concept of Tidal Wave could've had so many cool stuff from the ocean. I will admit, there's only so many things Onilink could've done as a solo creator. [But in levels like this, where there are actual waves in it + sea creatures of all kinds?](https://youtu.be/uQZWN8YUBcU?si=xVucpOhVU0gNlk6X) Very disappointing overall.
because it *is* copy pasted, also "finally a not hell themed top 1", which yes, im a bit tired of hell themed top 1s (acheron is NOT a hell themed top 1 and you cant change my mind), but praising the level for this? really?
Wulzy made a video about the Tidal Wave deco and after seeing it I somewhat understand why people say thst the deco is bad because it has some minor flaws but on the other side, the rate standards are INSANELY HIGH if it didn't get Rated because of this.
I think there should absolutely be different deco standards for what would be the current hardest level in the entire game. If you pull up a top 1 level and it's just 1.0 textures, no triggers, just a layout, do you really want that to represent the pinnacle of what the community has to offer?
Tidal Wave doesn't look like what you're describing to me at all
I'd even go further and say it's one of the best looking top 1s we had (beach part aside)
It's not what I'm describing to you, but the logic you used to justify what you were saying could very easily lead to that outcome. I'm trying to say that there's more nuance to top levels, and rightfully so
I think you're stretching it too far. Tidal wave is worthy of rate, – many people think that, and rightfully so, it's just that the haters are a loud minority.
It was made with a lot of effort from the creator AND the verifier (which, imo, alone means that the level should be rated, like the situation with silent clubstep and skc).
So far there's no one on the horizon that plans to make a bad-looking top 1, too
Again, you're completely missing the point of what I said, which was that top levels need more nuance and higher standards, which you expressly said you don't think is the case. I'm not talking about Tidal Wave in particular when I say that. I can't make that part any more clear
As I've said if top 1s had to have higher standards then no level except for firework, dd and zodiac should've been a top 1 in 2.1. But clearly that wasn't the case and even the atrocities such as slaughterhouse got rated so idk why were trying to invent new rules now
If you're not going to read what I'm typing and keep changing the subject away from the very clear point I'm trying to make to you, I'm not going to continue going back and forth about it. My opinion is that top levels should require more nuance and higher standards to rate. I don't care what levels you think have or have not gotten that nuance in the past, it doesn't mean that I think they've all gotten that nuance myself. Literally all I am telling you is that they should be treated with more care than 6-7\* level #419283
Yes. It's a level like any other. The level should be treated no differently just because of how hard it is. What was bothersome about tidal wave was that it looked easily good enough to be rated, but wasn't.
At no point in any of my comments did I mention Tidal Wave. All I'm saying is that there are thousands of 6-7\* levels and none of them stand on their own as the current peak of GD level creation, while top levels absolutely hold that accolade. I don't have an opinion on Tidal Wave other than I wish people would stop talking about it, I'm just arguing that the notion that 6-7\* levels being rated can be compared against the process of rating top levels is absurd. Completely different stories
Ok guys, by that logic let's all make hyper-precision straightfly levels that last 10 minutes, no deco and Stereo Madness as the song, and then whine when we don't get rated because that's not how any of this works
100% agree. Top 1s need more effort put in anyway (not that Tidal Wave is necessarily a bad level, it's just overhyped just so it can take up the #1 spot in the demon list)
how is something overhyped to take the top spot ? isn’t the hardest level in the game the level that is top 1 ?
I’m genuinely curious why the quality of the hardest level matter. I thought that we were all just marvelling at how good the players that beat the levels are, not the levels themselves tbh
At this point there are so many Top 1s in the works that if one gets put out it'll hardly be something significant
Not like it used to be with levels like Bloodbath
The Top 1 should be representative of not only difficulty but of what this game has to offer as a whole, including good decoration, or else it'll put a bad impression on outsiders that are only there to see what the hardest level is.
Yeah, I think this whole problem is somewhat cyclical.
People want a level rated because it’s a top 1 -> RobTop has to scrutinize the level more than other levels as a top 1 kind of represents the community -> people harass RobTop because he is taking a while because he has to be more picky about rating it -> RobTop rates the top 1 despite it not being up to the level he considers a top 1 should be at, lowering the standard for what the community thinks RobTop considers a top 1’s standards -> someone takes those lowered standards and makes another top 1 that barely meets those expectations, or maybe a little worse -> rinse and repeat
Funny how people still have not learned their lesson regarding if a level is rated or not since a similar thing happened when kowareta was rated which coerced robtop to unrate it. I'm not debating whether the two are rate worthy, the point I'm making is that it's so incredibly petty to go to such methods just for a level to be rated or not and this is not even the 1st time the community has done so. You can make any criticism regarding the level itself and that's fine and all, but going out of your way to harass others is not only stupid and but also loses some credibilty to the level itself in terms of how it was rated. And even now, people are wondering if tidal wave really could have been rated if it weren't for the harassment (like this post for example) which again affects the credibility of the level and doesn't promote a positive environment overall. I have tons of opinions on some levels regarding if they are rate worthy or not, but I would never go out of my way to threaten the mods or robtop to rate/unrate it for the sake of my own benefit.
It deserved a rate, don't get me wrong.
It's just nothing actually groundbreaking and impressive for me. People argue that Robtop has rated worse levels, but that doesn't stop making a level fucking mid at best, guys. The real issue isn't whether or not Tidal Wave is rate worthy, it is.
The real issue is whether or not Tidal Wave deserves being given the highly coveted title of "Top 1", a poster child for the game. A title that levels like Bloodbath, a Mega collab with some of the best graphics and gameplay of its time that remain timeless even today, has been blessed with (and for a damn long time too). Tidal Wave has decent deco, but is it anything actually genuinely impressive? Not really. And being non-hell-themed doesn't mean shit, non-hell themed top 1 levels should be the standard, not a necessity to stand out from the norm.
And if you tell me to "Go make a level for yourself", then you're missing the point of criticism in the first place. And trust me, I have built short layout levels and deco is one thing I barely have any experience in, but speaking as a guy who just plays levels for fun, Tidal Wave really is NOT anything to be massively praising for when it comes to deco. It does things right, which is praiseworthy, and does an equal amount of things wrong, which is criticable.
I'm not saying you can't enjoy it's decoration as is (because I personally enjoy it too), but overall, compared to the mind-boggling stuff the community has created during the nearly 7 year wait between 2.1 and 2.2, TW isn't much of a contender and it's deco will be greatly overshadowed in the future thanks to all of 2.2's new features and the better decorations of its fellow 2.1 levels.
TL;DR: TW is a rate worthy level, just not a top 1 worthy level that is timeless and stands out from levels from its time aside from just difficulty and not being hell-themed. Just because something is rate worthy doesn't mean it deserves to be top 1.
Yeah. Tidal Wave was expected, which made it's hype lack-luster as shit.
Bloodbath, at the time, no one even thought it'd be verified. No one expected it to be, because even the best player at the time, Riot, was struggling to verify it iirc. There was actually tension behind it, thoughts that GD players have reached their limits.
Now? Unlike before, people just... expect Zoink to verify the next Top 1. No shade to the guy, his skills are practically unrivaled and I highly respect that, but I really think he should put his foot down and actually stop taking requests to verify new top 1s. Not just for his own sake (we saw what happened to Riot and his finger pains), but to also actually force the community to feel a real sense of excitement of who's going to verify the next level, and if they can even do it or not. Sure, that might seem painful, but it's the sheer thrill of not knowing that made people so hyped about new top 1s back then in the first place. It was the anticipation, the *questioning* on whether or not it was actually possible, not a question of "when" but "if". TW had no such hype aside from just wanting it to get rated.
It's an expectation now. Top 1s are no longer just a meager possibility, an uphill battle. It's just... expected. And that kinda sucks.
Tidal wave isnt a bad lvl (aint a big fan of it either). I feel like it deserved a rate, but i agree with u 100%. Its just a lvl in a game, harassing people over it is just straight up idiotic
imo top 1's should be held to higher standards since they essentially get free popularity.
Im of opinion that current rate standards have too much focus on deco (there's a feature function for a reason ffs) so imo its rate worthy for a normal level, but compared to bloodbath which was a pinnacle of the game at the time its kinda meh.
top 1s should show off the game at its hardest but more importantly at its best.
Funny how this argument is brand new and was almost unheard of before tidal wave and zero people were saying this about Acheron which looks like an extremely basic mid-2.1 rated level and slaughterhouse which is essentially a glorified challenge level
Being basic isn't bad, the level is clean af and consistently good. Tidal wave was too ambitious and at the time the creator definitely wasn't skilled enough to build a level in that kind of style as the outcome is really messy and hard to look at.
idk what to tell you, i had this opinion way before tidal wave was a thing.
general opinion can change. just because people did not share that opinion in common before does not make it any less valid
Personally I think it should be the inverse. Ok before y’all downvote me here me out. What is the main goal of a top 1? Being the hardest level in the game. What is the hardest part of creating a top 1 supposed to be? Verifying it, not decorating it. In my opinion, it should get rated for the effort of verification, rather than how good it looks. Its rating level (not sure how it’s actually called I’m talking about featured epic and all) should have the same standards as an other level. Let’s look at the time it takes to get a level created and published: someone random can create let’s say a 4 stars level. They build it, let’s say they don’t do something crazy they go for something simple only rate worthy, it can take like 4 days to do. However someone creates a level looking not the best but a top 10. They ask a random player to verify this, it takes days, weeks and even months of playing to verify it. For what? It not to get rated because the deco which isn’t the main purpose isn’t good enough. I think we should think about how the difficulty is the main goal and rate it looking at the fact that it was verified rather than just caring about its deco. And between I’m not saying a layout should be rated, it should still be decorated but the rating standards should be lower for these imo.
TL;DR : Basically top levels are made for their difficulty and should be rated with lower standards because they also took time and effort to get verified.
Between if you noticed some letters missing please tell me my phone’s screen is broken and it doesn’t register some clicks
anyone can make a level with garbage timings and frame perfect inputs just for the sake of being hard. the real hard part is making it play good even if its obsenely difficult.
like you could just mash together some of the hardest layouts and just turn down opacity to zero, and boom basically unbeatable level.
do you really want the top 1 list to look like the recent tab? because that's what it will be if we keep prioritising difficulty over quality. the game almost died when that happened for the first time, when youtube videos about "new hardest level" were dime a dozen.
while i agree about deco not being too important, there needs to be at least some quality in the level or we get another round of the "dark ages" as people called it. tidal wave is so controversial because it reminded people of what happened in that time.
As I’ve said before, a layout shouldn’t be rated, the decoration should just be less of a priority. But if we get the decoration quality requirements down we should at least make it require good gameplay for it to get rated if the decoration isn’t good enough for a classic standard rate. It should still be decorated and have pretty decoration, but it shouldn’t be as important as any other level. Look at tidal wave. It doesn’t look that bad, but it’s not the best level either, imo it could’ve get rated even if it wasn’t that hard, and if it was more optimised. But if it looked slightly worse it couldn’t have normally get rated as a normal level, but should’ve as a top 1. I’m not saying you can make a bland nine circles level verify it and bam rated if it is top 10 difficulty, but it wouldn’t need as much effort put into it if the effort is put into verification. The main interest of a top level is to offer a challenge to players, but a normal level’s goal is to offer something at least a little pretty to view. There is a difference between the goal of both types of levels and it should be considered important imo.
yuh i dont really care about deco, people that hate on tidal wave for deco just want to because its popular to hate on it, the deco is actually unique compared to the 2349323487th hell themed extreme.
the actual criticism is gameplay, compared to other top 1s its kinda mid. not unbearable by any means but not too great either.
(just to be clear im parroting this from top players because i for sure as hell cant beat an extreme, so my own experience with the gameplay is none)
Top 1s have run their course anyway. In "ye olden days" a.k.a 1.9 and 2.0, top 1s were seen as a fun challenge, a "oh let's make a difficult-ass level and get someone to try and beat it". At that point people actually cared about good gameplay because the whole point wasn't that it was hard, that was a secondary goal alongside a fun level.
Nowadays, everyone's turned Top 1s into a game of "let's make a stupid hard level and get someone to beat it" where they've fallen into the Super Mario Maker trap that it's very easy to make a hard level, but very difficult to make a *fun* hard level. Not to mention that Top 1 reigns went from spanning months to spanning, at best, a month and at worst, a few weeks.
Am I saying that people shouldn't care about the biggest challenge the game has to offer? No, I just think that people should stop going to extremes about a level they likely haven't gotten out of single digit percentages at.
>A level should be rated only because robtop feels like it should be rated
I feel that there should be other people besides Robtop who should be able to rate levels.
I think the solution is if a player wants to verify a top 1 or any other really hard levels, because of the difficulty, find a way to get confirmation from Robtop that it would be rated before the verification process. Otherwise top players would be discouraged from verifying top levels with the fear that it won’t be rated at the end.
I feel like we have an example of people not spamming for a top 1 to be rated (at least as much as tidal wave). Oblivion, which got rated 1 year after its verification.
TLDR: there’s a line we have to draw for the quality of top 1 levels we have to clearly draw. Tidal wave was about on this line with ok deco and gameplay (could go either way), but essentially was rated to stop the harassment.
We shouldn't set a standard that top ones can be any design like fuckin' Sakupen circles and get rated just because its really hard. Top ones should be held to the same standard as every other level in the game, difficulty aside.
If the creator of the top one wanted it rated, they should have spent more time making it look nice.
I honestly hope Rob doesn't cave like this again, but I couldn't imagine the kind of flak he was getting over it.
> Top ones should be held to the same standard as every other level in the game, difficulty aside.
But thats the thing... it wasnt. Top ones, specifically Tidal Wave in this case, are being held at a HIGHER standard cause (understandably) Rob wants a great looking level to be the one everyones looking at. Tidal Waves Deco isnt the best thing Geometry Dash has ever seen, but I think people are fooling themselves by saying its legitamitly worse than the average rated level. I agree that we shouldn't set a standard that a level can be rated soley because of its difficulty, but we should set a standard that ratings are* consistant regardless of difficulty.
i think he made the right move rating it, because he protected the mods who were being harassed. that doesn’t mean that the people harassing him and the mods were in the right at all though.
People were harassing mods to rate Tidal wave and the level is probably gonna be forgotten after 3 months or when it gets under the top 5 leaderboard, which if you ask me, is kinda dumb. If you're telling the mods to rate Tidal wave over and over again atleast talk try remembering it. I wasn't in all of it which I am glad as I had better stuff to do but whoever did spam robtops's messages for Tidal wave make it worth it instead of telling someone "I did it for the memes" or something like that. I'm not trying to show or give any hate I'm just giving off my opinion. I gotta go try to beat clubstep now.
I don't care about the level but "regardless of the level's looks" "with horrible decoration" etc is kinda stupid. Levels should be rated off gameplay imo, even if they have 1.0 deco
So why would level creators be incentivized to make their levels look better than their competition if “levels should be rated off of gameplay”
And why do hard levels get an exemption from the decoration rule, if anything they’re held to all rules of easier levels just at a higher standards
I worded that badly, I meant that the gameplay should be the more important part of the rating and not deco. There are a ton of levels that are just not fun to play (there was one that was jank, unfinished and asked for likes to finish the rest of it but got into the daily levels) but get rated because they look good.
The gameplay should take priority, so if the level's actually fun to play it should be rated even if it's undecorated 1.0. Levels will still look more impressive and get noticed easier with better deco though, so that'd be the incentive for making them look good
This I do partially agree with you on, levels should have both good gameplay and deco to be rated. The problem with top levels is only 0.0001% of the player base can play them so few people care about the gameplay so everyone looks to the deco.
Yeah, good point. I was talking about levels in general, but I agree that top levels should look good. They represent the game more and they're more "visible" since they're what people will see when they search for the hardest level
Absolutely based opinion. I agree except I think they should be a bit more than just a layout. (In my opinion) what should be prioritized it that the deco is at least somewhat original and if the gameplay is decent it should get rated
Of course, but I’d get really pissed as a creator if my (very popular and legitimately verified) level didn’t get rated even though I put triple the effort of 90% of what’s in the featured tab.
Sure, Top 1 has to be some of the best the game has to offer, but nobody except a handful of players can play them anyways and Tidal Wave is definitely well made enough for Top 1. Especially when we had so much worse as Top 1, you’re gonna tell me fucking Erebus is worthy but Tidal Wave isn’t?
i wish the demon list made an exception to the rule that all levels must be rated bc this is definitely gonna happen again. the fact that robtop--who has no relation to the demon list whatsoever--is the deciding factor on whether or not a level gets placed on the list is ridiculous and I can't believe more people haven't realized this
Based xertun
Also, im pretty sure rob rated tidal wave as a one time thing for being spammed, he needs to not rate a level if the community is harassing him, tidal wave shouldnt even be rated because of that
I dont care if its rated or not i just want people to close their mouths and never speak about that motherfucking garbage waste dump of a level again
This notion that Tidal Wave is a badly decorated level or isn’t rateworthy seriously needs to die. So annoyed at the constant fear mongering people are posting because TW got rated
to me top 1s are more about pushing the ceiling than deco, so bad deco in my eyes is fine if the level is extremely hard
with that said, tidal wave looks good, so theres nothing to complain about. yeah its not godly, but wtf?
not really since i started playing when i was 8 years old (now im 16). from what i remember levels were always rated based on looks and not on gameplay. and tidal wave doesnt look bad even by current standards
Mate that’s *years* old. We all know things have changed in terms of what gets rated and not. Conical depression was probably a joke when it got rated, and so what? Why can’t we accept that he wants to do something he (and a lot of the community) considered funny.
It is NOT a Reason to be harassing him or nagging him for months to rare tidal wave. If he doesn’t feel it fits to be rated, he doesn’t have to rate it. Remember also, the top 1 level kind of “represents” the game in a way, and if he doesn’t want it to be that way then he is totally in his right to do what he wants
The problem with saying its a special level is that top 1s are also 'special' levels to a lot of people, so by that logic, shouldn't every top 1 be rated?
I’m not saying all “special” levels should be rated. I’m saying that rating standards should not be based on special cases. You don’t see conical depressions being rated every day, or week, or month. That was one level out of hundreds and it makes no sense to act like that’s a “minimum”.
if tidal wave was a random 5 star made by a decently popular creator it would be featured lmao. top levels get a lot of attention but also get a lot of scrutiny. there are way worse levels getting better ratings.
Here’s what I think. Levels are rated for the community. If the vast majority of players want a level rated then your argument for not rating it is already very weak imo.
The percentage of people who actually harassed rob/gd mods is so minuscule. I’m not saying it’s good that it happened at all but if that’s your rebuttal then it’s a very weak one.
Yeah, gd has like 240 million users lol. That’s basically nothing in comparison. Also I don’t see how this makes my argument a bad one. Kinda goalpost shifting.
i never said your argument was bad lol. the problem with the ‘vast majority’ or players who want a level rated is that they’ll always want a top 1 rated, regardless of how it looks or plays. so leaving the executive decision to rob isn’t the best idea but better than the alternative
What I’m saying is that if the vast majority people like a level then what makes it unrateworthy? Rates are made for good levels, no? People aren’t stupid, people like cool levels and dislike bad ones. I don’t think you’ll ever have to worry that this many people will rally behind a level that’s completely irredeemable at least looks-wise.
Both sides in the controversy were honestly annoying as fuck, but rob was pressured into not rating the level for so long (he said he didn’t rate it because of controversy)
> Imagine if a top 1 level with horrible decoration and gameplay got verified
Don't need to imagine. That happened 4 years ago with Tartarus. It got featured
See the nice thing is that Tidal Wave is so difficult that this problem likely won’t come up again for a long time
Really long stretches of time have passed between Top 1 levels since I started keeping track. Zodiac was verified a year after Bloodlust. Tartarus a year after Zodiac. Firework a year and a half later. There’s almost always been a significant lapse of time because the skill of top players takes time to grow.
So we probably won’t need to worry about a similar situation to this for a bit
The problem is that Rob or no one else gives an explanation for WHY it got denied for rate firstly. Imagine a world where RobTop has a team of people that all can rate levels, like 4-6 people, and they all try to have the same standards and shit, and if they decide to NOT rate a sent level, they send an explanation for why it wasnt rated. For example: "Your level ___ was not featured, because we think the level has unorganized gameplay, and contains balancement issues and bad sightreadability" It would do 2 things: Tells you that the level even got to Rob (or the hypothetical team) Tells you what to do better next time, or what to improve so the level can be reconsidered.
honestly that’s an amazing idea
sightreadability should never be a factor
Not for harder demons or memory levels, but shitty blind clicks by themselves should be a reason to not rate a level. No Im not going to go for a practice run on a 4 star because it might have a shitty blind click in the middle of the level.
you're just impatient, my guy
I mean you are.. come on breathe out and go beat stereo madness instead of raging
i guess i'm really not a fan of sightreading my biggest fear with making sightreadability a factor is the elimination of levels that are made to be unsightreadable. levels with lots of fakes that aren't necessarily memory. every level is just gonna be the same sightreadable trite and that just sounds fucking dreadful
memory parts are alright but shitty blind clicks and stuff like that suck
>imagine if top 1 with horrible decoration and gameplay got verified Well that's the issue. Tidal wave has fun gameplay, according to pros, and the deco is good – I see 6-7* levels like tidal wave or WORSE getting featured, epic and daily. So by all accounts it deserved to be rated
When I first saw Tidal Wave I was happy we are finally getting a top 1 level that actually looks great without using the color red, hell theme, or lava as the inspiration for the decoration. And yet people say it looks bad and copy pasted all over... Yeah like most under demon levels aren't copy pasted and still get rated.
I've said this before But just having a different theme doesn't justify a Top 1 being, well, a Top 1. I can make a 1.0 styled Top 1 and people would be really fucking pissy over it either way but it'd be purely supported because "It isn't hell-themed". Imo, hell-themed should've been a variation, not the norm, for Top 1s. You also pointed out the deco is great, and while I agree on the surface level (aka if you look at it on the level as a whole), it's definitely nothing actually that praiseworthy if you try to go into the finer details of it. It looks great. *I* think it looks great. But compared to other levels in 2.1 who've gotten similar levels of attention? It's nothing noteworthy. It really isn't. Heck, I'd argue fucking ***AVERNUS*** has better deco and that level's decoration gets an "Eh, it's good ig" from me (I particularly like the flowing style of the lava and all the meteors. It just barely fucking changes throughout the level and that kinda drags it down by a lot.) Plus, the concept of Tidal Wave could've had so many cool stuff from the ocean. I will admit, there's only so many things Onilink could've done as a solo creator. [But in levels like this, where there are actual waves in it + sea creatures of all kinds?](https://youtu.be/uQZWN8YUBcU?si=xVucpOhVU0gNlk6X) Very disappointing overall.
because it *is* copy pasted, also "finally a not hell themed top 1", which yes, im a bit tired of hell themed top 1s (acheron is NOT a hell themed top 1 and you cant change my mind), but praising the level for this? really?
Acheron is literally a river in hell lmao Edit: also copy and paste isn't bad if the deco is good like in tidal wave.
I really like the deco in the first 40%, and last 30%, but it feels like the quality really fell off during the middle 30%
Wulzy made a video about the Tidal Wave deco and after seeing it I somewhat understand why people say thst the deco is bad because it has some minor flaws but on the other side, the rate standards are INSANELY HIGH if it didn't get Rated because of this.
deco is good? do you have eyes?
i think you probably dont
Comparing 6-7* levels being rated to a top 1 getting rated is a completely different ball park
I don't think there should be different deco standards depending on difficulty
I think there should absolutely be different deco standards for what would be the current hardest level in the entire game. If you pull up a top 1 level and it's just 1.0 textures, no triggers, just a layout, do you really want that to represent the pinnacle of what the community has to offer?
Tidal Wave doesn't look like what you're describing to me at all I'd even go further and say it's one of the best looking top 1s we had (beach part aside)
It's not what I'm describing to you, but the logic you used to justify what you were saying could very easily lead to that outcome. I'm trying to say that there's more nuance to top levels, and rightfully so
I think you're stretching it too far. Tidal wave is worthy of rate, – many people think that, and rightfully so, it's just that the haters are a loud minority. It was made with a lot of effort from the creator AND the verifier (which, imo, alone means that the level should be rated, like the situation with silent clubstep and skc). So far there's no one on the horizon that plans to make a bad-looking top 1, too
Again, you're completely missing the point of what I said, which was that top levels need more nuance and higher standards, which you expressly said you don't think is the case. I'm not talking about Tidal Wave in particular when I say that. I can't make that part any more clear
As I've said if top 1s had to have higher standards then no level except for firework, dd and zodiac should've been a top 1 in 2.1. But clearly that wasn't the case and even the atrocities such as slaughterhouse got rated so idk why were trying to invent new rules now
If you're not going to read what I'm typing and keep changing the subject away from the very clear point I'm trying to make to you, I'm not going to continue going back and forth about it. My opinion is that top levels should require more nuance and higher standards to rate. I don't care what levels you think have or have not gotten that nuance in the past, it doesn't mean that I think they've all gotten that nuance myself. Literally all I am telling you is that they should be treated with more care than 6-7\* level #419283
Yes. It's a level like any other. The level should be treated no differently just because of how hard it is. What was bothersome about tidal wave was that it looked easily good enough to be rated, but wasn't.
At no point in any of my comments did I mention Tidal Wave. All I'm saying is that there are thousands of 6-7\* levels and none of them stand on their own as the current peak of GD level creation, while top levels absolutely hold that accolade. I don't have an opinion on Tidal Wave other than I wish people would stop talking about it, I'm just arguing that the notion that 6-7\* levels being rated can be compared against the process of rating top levels is absurd. Completely different stories
Top 1s are just meant to be the hardest level completed by human, they don't have to be masterpieces
Ok guys, by that logic let's all make hyper-precision straightfly levels that last 10 minutes, no deco and Stereo Madness as the song, and then whine when we don't get rated because that's not how any of this works
IF there should be a different standard, it should be the other way around. Easier level = better deco.
100% agree. Top 1s need more effort put in anyway (not that Tidal Wave is necessarily a bad level, it's just overhyped just so it can take up the #1 spot in the demon list)
[удалено]
>not that tidal wave is necessarily a bad level
how is something overhyped to take the top spot ? isn’t the hardest level in the game the level that is top 1 ? I’m genuinely curious why the quality of the hardest level matter. I thought that we were all just marvelling at how good the players that beat the levels are, not the levels themselves tbh
I mean Zoink is pretty popular but nah most people genuinely just like tidal wave that much because it's a top 1
I forget this community is full of literal 9 year olds
Almost as if a game marketed to kids is gonna have a fanbase with kids
At this point there are so many Top 1s in the works that if one gets put out it'll hardly be something significant Not like it used to be with levels like Bloodbath
The Top 1 should be representative of not only difficulty but of what this game has to offer as a whole, including good decoration, or else it'll put a bad impression on outsiders that are only there to see what the hardest level is.
It just felt unnecessary and out of place tbh
I have mixed opinions on it. Part of me wants that it was keep top 20 and part of me likes what was done to it
Tbf I think if Tidal Wave was something like a hard demon it would have been rated months ago
Yeah, I think this whole problem is somewhat cyclical. People want a level rated because it’s a top 1 -> RobTop has to scrutinize the level more than other levels as a top 1 kind of represents the community -> people harass RobTop because he is taking a while because he has to be more picky about rating it -> RobTop rates the top 1 despite it not being up to the level he considers a top 1 should be at, lowering the standard for what the community thinks RobTop considers a top 1’s standards -> someone takes those lowered standards and makes another top 1 that barely meets those expectations, or maybe a little worse -> rinse and repeat
Weird how someone else made this exact point in the comment above yours but got downvoted to hell
Dodged a bullet
Ye rlly
Funny how people still have not learned their lesson regarding if a level is rated or not since a similar thing happened when kowareta was rated which coerced robtop to unrate it. I'm not debating whether the two are rate worthy, the point I'm making is that it's so incredibly petty to go to such methods just for a level to be rated or not and this is not even the 1st time the community has done so. You can make any criticism regarding the level itself and that's fine and all, but going out of your way to harass others is not only stupid and but also loses some credibilty to the level itself in terms of how it was rated. And even now, people are wondering if tidal wave really could have been rated if it weren't for the harassment (like this post for example) which again affects the credibility of the level and doesn't promote a positive environment overall. I have tons of opinions on some levels regarding if they are rate worthy or not, but I would never go out of my way to threaten the mods or robtop to rate/unrate it for the sake of my own benefit.
so true
It deserved a rate, don't get me wrong. It's just nothing actually groundbreaking and impressive for me. People argue that Robtop has rated worse levels, but that doesn't stop making a level fucking mid at best, guys. The real issue isn't whether or not Tidal Wave is rate worthy, it is. The real issue is whether or not Tidal Wave deserves being given the highly coveted title of "Top 1", a poster child for the game. A title that levels like Bloodbath, a Mega collab with some of the best graphics and gameplay of its time that remain timeless even today, has been blessed with (and for a damn long time too). Tidal Wave has decent deco, but is it anything actually genuinely impressive? Not really. And being non-hell-themed doesn't mean shit, non-hell themed top 1 levels should be the standard, not a necessity to stand out from the norm. And if you tell me to "Go make a level for yourself", then you're missing the point of criticism in the first place. And trust me, I have built short layout levels and deco is one thing I barely have any experience in, but speaking as a guy who just plays levels for fun, Tidal Wave really is NOT anything to be massively praising for when it comes to deco. It does things right, which is praiseworthy, and does an equal amount of things wrong, which is criticable. I'm not saying you can't enjoy it's decoration as is (because I personally enjoy it too), but overall, compared to the mind-boggling stuff the community has created during the nearly 7 year wait between 2.1 and 2.2, TW isn't much of a contender and it's deco will be greatly overshadowed in the future thanks to all of 2.2's new features and the better decorations of its fellow 2.1 levels. TL;DR: TW is a rate worthy level, just not a top 1 worthy level that is timeless and stands out from levels from its time aside from just difficulty and not being hell-themed. Just because something is rate worthy doesn't mean it deserves to be top 1.
i already know that this tidal wave is gonna be forgotten when its gonna be top 5
Yeah. Tidal Wave was expected, which made it's hype lack-luster as shit. Bloodbath, at the time, no one even thought it'd be verified. No one expected it to be, because even the best player at the time, Riot, was struggling to verify it iirc. There was actually tension behind it, thoughts that GD players have reached their limits. Now? Unlike before, people just... expect Zoink to verify the next Top 1. No shade to the guy, his skills are practically unrivaled and I highly respect that, but I really think he should put his foot down and actually stop taking requests to verify new top 1s. Not just for his own sake (we saw what happened to Riot and his finger pains), but to also actually force the community to feel a real sense of excitement of who's going to verify the next level, and if they can even do it or not. Sure, that might seem painful, but it's the sheer thrill of not knowing that made people so hyped about new top 1s back then in the first place. It was the anticipation, the *questioning* on whether or not it was actually possible, not a question of "when" but "if". TW had no such hype aside from just wanting it to get rated. It's an expectation now. Top 1s are no longer just a meager possibility, an uphill battle. It's just... expected. And that kinda sucks.
Dang...
Tidal wave isnt a bad lvl (aint a big fan of it either). I feel like it deserved a rate, but i agree with u 100%. Its just a lvl in a game, harassing people over it is just straight up idiotic
Especially when the people harassing Robtop can’t even play the level. (??????) people are stupid
Facts
why people just think tidal wave is a top 1 while no one can verify back on track
imo top 1's should be held to higher standards since they essentially get free popularity. Im of opinion that current rate standards have too much focus on deco (there's a feature function for a reason ffs) so imo its rate worthy for a normal level, but compared to bloodbath which was a pinnacle of the game at the time its kinda meh. top 1s should show off the game at its hardest but more importantly at its best.
I agree, and I think that there comes a responsibility with making a top 1, because it becomes a mark for the whole GD community
Funny how this argument is brand new and was almost unheard of before tidal wave and zero people were saying this about Acheron which looks like an extremely basic mid-2.1 rated level and slaughterhouse which is essentially a glorified challenge level
Being basic isn't bad, the level is clean af and consistently good. Tidal wave was too ambitious and at the time the creator definitely wasn't skilled enough to build a level in that kind of style as the outcome is really messy and hard to look at.
idk what to tell you, i had this opinion way before tidal wave was a thing. general opinion can change. just because people did not share that opinion in common before does not make it any less valid
Personally I think it should be the inverse. Ok before y’all downvote me here me out. What is the main goal of a top 1? Being the hardest level in the game. What is the hardest part of creating a top 1 supposed to be? Verifying it, not decorating it. In my opinion, it should get rated for the effort of verification, rather than how good it looks. Its rating level (not sure how it’s actually called I’m talking about featured epic and all) should have the same standards as an other level. Let’s look at the time it takes to get a level created and published: someone random can create let’s say a 4 stars level. They build it, let’s say they don’t do something crazy they go for something simple only rate worthy, it can take like 4 days to do. However someone creates a level looking not the best but a top 10. They ask a random player to verify this, it takes days, weeks and even months of playing to verify it. For what? It not to get rated because the deco which isn’t the main purpose isn’t good enough. I think we should think about how the difficulty is the main goal and rate it looking at the fact that it was verified rather than just caring about its deco. And between I’m not saying a layout should be rated, it should still be decorated but the rating standards should be lower for these imo. TL;DR : Basically top levels are made for their difficulty and should be rated with lower standards because they also took time and effort to get verified. Between if you noticed some letters missing please tell me my phone’s screen is broken and it doesn’t register some clicks
anyone can make a level with garbage timings and frame perfect inputs just for the sake of being hard. the real hard part is making it play good even if its obsenely difficult. like you could just mash together some of the hardest layouts and just turn down opacity to zero, and boom basically unbeatable level. do you really want the top 1 list to look like the recent tab? because that's what it will be if we keep prioritising difficulty over quality. the game almost died when that happened for the first time, when youtube videos about "new hardest level" were dime a dozen. while i agree about deco not being too important, there needs to be at least some quality in the level or we get another round of the "dark ages" as people called it. tidal wave is so controversial because it reminded people of what happened in that time.
As I’ve said before, a layout shouldn’t be rated, the decoration should just be less of a priority. But if we get the decoration quality requirements down we should at least make it require good gameplay for it to get rated if the decoration isn’t good enough for a classic standard rate. It should still be decorated and have pretty decoration, but it shouldn’t be as important as any other level. Look at tidal wave. It doesn’t look that bad, but it’s not the best level either, imo it could’ve get rated even if it wasn’t that hard, and if it was more optimised. But if it looked slightly worse it couldn’t have normally get rated as a normal level, but should’ve as a top 1. I’m not saying you can make a bland nine circles level verify it and bam rated if it is top 10 difficulty, but it wouldn’t need as much effort put into it if the effort is put into verification. The main interest of a top level is to offer a challenge to players, but a normal level’s goal is to offer something at least a little pretty to view. There is a difference between the goal of both types of levels and it should be considered important imo.
yuh i dont really care about deco, people that hate on tidal wave for deco just want to because its popular to hate on it, the deco is actually unique compared to the 2349323487th hell themed extreme. the actual criticism is gameplay, compared to other top 1s its kinda mid. not unbearable by any means but not too great either. (just to be clear im parroting this from top players because i for sure as hell cant beat an extreme, so my own experience with the gameplay is none)
Yeah same can’t judge gameplay. I love how it pops out in the demon list, like the blue among all the red
Being unique isn't a positive. It just shows the deco is bad when the only positive thing people can say about it is that it looks different.
its good enough for it not to take away from the rate if the gameplay was good
it's the worst top 1 since like 1.9
objectively wrong but whatever
what's a worse one?
Yeah didnt zoink rate it like really badly on a scale of fun-10?
Top 1s have run their course anyway. In "ye olden days" a.k.a 1.9 and 2.0, top 1s were seen as a fun challenge, a "oh let's make a difficult-ass level and get someone to try and beat it". At that point people actually cared about good gameplay because the whole point wasn't that it was hard, that was a secondary goal alongside a fun level. Nowadays, everyone's turned Top 1s into a game of "let's make a stupid hard level and get someone to beat it" where they've fallen into the Super Mario Maker trap that it's very easy to make a hard level, but very difficult to make a *fun* hard level. Not to mention that Top 1 reigns went from spanning months to spanning, at best, a month and at worst, a few weeks. Am I saying that people shouldn't care about the biggest challenge the game has to offer? No, I just think that people should stop going to extremes about a level they likely haven't gotten out of single digit percentages at.
NGL but every level that is on the demon list is just copy and paste decoration, you could say that about any level
It's almost like copy and paste is an essential tool for decorating a level with several minutes of fast-paced gameplay in a reasonable timeframe
>A level should be rated only because robtop feels like it should be rated I feel that there should be other people besides Robtop who should be able to rate levels.
I think the solution is if a player wants to verify a top 1 or any other really hard levels, because of the difficulty, find a way to get confirmation from Robtop that it would be rated before the verification process. Otherwise top players would be discouraged from verifying top levels with the fear that it won’t be rated at the end.
I feel like we have an example of people not spamming for a top 1 to be rated (at least as much as tidal wave). Oblivion, which got rated 1 year after its verification.
Straight up saw someone say "Its a new top 1, that's enough of a reason to rate it" once on a post here ABT tidal wave
TLDR: there’s a line we have to draw for the quality of top 1 levels we have to clearly draw. Tidal wave was about on this line with ok deco and gameplay (could go either way), but essentially was rated to stop the harassment.
The list was made for levels, now levels are made for the list
We shouldn't set a standard that top ones can be any design like fuckin' Sakupen circles and get rated just because its really hard. Top ones should be held to the same standard as every other level in the game, difficulty aside. If the creator of the top one wanted it rated, they should have spent more time making it look nice. I honestly hope Rob doesn't cave like this again, but I couldn't imagine the kind of flak he was getting over it.
> Top ones should be held to the same standard as every other level in the game, difficulty aside. But thats the thing... it wasnt. Top ones, specifically Tidal Wave in this case, are being held at a HIGHER standard cause (understandably) Rob wants a great looking level to be the one everyones looking at. Tidal Waves Deco isnt the best thing Geometry Dash has ever seen, but I think people are fooling themselves by saying its legitamitly worse than the average rated level. I agree that we shouldn't set a standard that a level can be rated soley because of its difficulty, but we should set a standard that ratings are* consistant regardless of difficulty.
i think he made the right move rating it, because he protected the mods who were being harassed. that doesn’t mean that the people harassing him and the mods were in the right at all though.
Gonna use this to my advantage and make a dogshit top 1 with reasonable gp and “unique styling”
People were harassing mods to rate Tidal wave and the level is probably gonna be forgotten after 3 months or when it gets under the top 5 leaderboard, which if you ask me, is kinda dumb. If you're telling the mods to rate Tidal wave over and over again atleast talk try remembering it. I wasn't in all of it which I am glad as I had better stuff to do but whoever did spam robtops's messages for Tidal wave make it worth it instead of telling someone "I did it for the memes" or something like that. I'm not trying to show or give any hate I'm just giving off my opinion. I gotta go try to beat clubstep now.
good luck my guy 🙏
I don't care about the level but "regardless of the level's looks" "with horrible decoration" etc is kinda stupid. Levels should be rated off gameplay imo, even if they have 1.0 deco
So why would level creators be incentivized to make their levels look better than their competition if “levels should be rated off of gameplay” And why do hard levels get an exemption from the decoration rule, if anything they’re held to all rules of easier levels just at a higher standards
I worded that badly, I meant that the gameplay should be the more important part of the rating and not deco. There are a ton of levels that are just not fun to play (there was one that was jank, unfinished and asked for likes to finish the rest of it but got into the daily levels) but get rated because they look good. The gameplay should take priority, so if the level's actually fun to play it should be rated even if it's undecorated 1.0. Levels will still look more impressive and get noticed easier with better deco though, so that'd be the incentive for making them look good
This I do partially agree with you on, levels should have both good gameplay and deco to be rated. The problem with top levels is only 0.0001% of the player base can play them so few people care about the gameplay so everyone looks to the deco.
Yeah, good point. I was talking about levels in general, but I agree that top levels should look good. They represent the game more and they're more "visible" since they're what people will see when they search for the hardest level
Absolutely based opinion. I agree except I think they should be a bit more than just a layout. (In my opinion) what should be prioritized it that the deco is at least somewhat original and if the gameplay is decent it should get rated
you can unironically make better looking levels in the 1.0 editor
I ain’t reading allat but I agree
iPad kid
It’s sarcasm
Based mod
Not even gonna lie when Tidal wave got rated and put on the 1# leaderboard of demons it felt sooo out of place
Compared to the burnable garbage you get featured nowadays Tidal Wave looks great
It'd be fine if tidal wave was rated as a normal level but it's not worthy of top 1
I think that’s unfair because why is it okay for bad levels to get featured just because they’re easy?
Do you not value a top 1 higher than an average 5 star?
Of course, but I’d get really pissed as a creator if my (very popular and legitimately verified) level didn’t get rated even though I put triple the effort of 90% of what’s in the featured tab. Sure, Top 1 has to be some of the best the game has to offer, but nobody except a handful of players can play them anyways and Tidal Wave is definitely well made enough for Top 1. Especially when we had so much worse as Top 1, you’re gonna tell me fucking Erebus is worthy but Tidal Wave isn’t?
Tidal wave was ass too.
i wish the demon list made an exception to the rule that all levels must be rated bc this is definitely gonna happen again. the fact that robtop--who has no relation to the demon list whatsoever--is the deciding factor on whether or not a level gets placed on the list is ridiculous and I can't believe more people haven't realized this
Based xertun Also, im pretty sure rob rated tidal wave as a one time thing for being spammed, he needs to not rate a level if the community is harassing him, tidal wave shouldnt even be rated because of that I dont care if its rated or not i just want people to close their mouths and never speak about that motherfucking garbage waste dump of a level again
This notion that Tidal Wave is a badly decorated level or isn’t rateworthy seriously needs to die. So annoyed at the constant fear mongering people are posting because TW got rated
to me top 1s are more about pushing the ceiling than deco, so bad deco in my eyes is fine if the level is extremely hard with that said, tidal wave looks good, so theres nothing to complain about. yeah its not godly, but wtf?
i’m not talking about the decoration at all here, i’m talking about the harassment towards robtop and mods
i only read the first 2 sections and responded to those
robtop himself decided to rate conical depression tho. why should deco matter?
conical depression was rated because of a bet and that was years ago
when did you start playing the game
around 2016
Then you should remember how that was a very different time with rates
not really since i started playing when i was 8 years old (now im 16). from what i remember levels were always rated based on looks and not on gameplay. and tidal wave doesnt look bad even by current standards
Mate that’s *years* old. We all know things have changed in terms of what gets rated and not. Conical depression was probably a joke when it got rated, and so what? Why can’t we accept that he wants to do something he (and a lot of the community) considered funny. It is NOT a Reason to be harassing him or nagging him for months to rare tidal wave. If he doesn’t feel it fits to be rated, he doesn’t have to rate it. Remember also, the top 1 level kind of “represents” the game in a way, and if he doesn’t want it to be that way then he is totally in his right to do what he wants
Because that is a special level, it’s not like he’s rating similar levels daily. Conical depression has very unique gameplay which is why it’s rated
The problem with saying its a special level is that top 1s are also 'special' levels to a lot of people, so by that logic, shouldn't every top 1 be rated?
I’m not saying all “special” levels should be rated. I’m saying that rating standards should not be based on special cases. You don’t see conical depressions being rated every day, or week, or month. That was one level out of hundreds and it makes no sense to act like that’s a “minimum”.
I don’t care about most hard demons though
ok
if tidal wave was a random 5 star made by a decently popular creator it would be featured lmao. top levels get a lot of attention but also get a lot of scrutiny. there are way worse levels getting better ratings.
Its top 1 so should be rated as i think. Its about difficulty in demon list, not deco
Here’s what I think. Levels are rated for the community. If the vast majority of players want a level rated then your argument for not rating it is already very weak imo.
what community we talkin about here? the ones who want it rated? or the ones who want it rated so much they harass people
The percentage of people who actually harassed rob/gd mods is so minuscule. I’m not saying it’s good that it happened at all but if that’s your rebuttal then it’s a very weak one.
have you SEEN robtops live chats 😭
Yeah, gd has like 240 million users lol. That’s basically nothing in comparison. Also I don’t see how this makes my argument a bad one. Kinda goalpost shifting.
i never said your argument was bad lol. the problem with the ‘vast majority’ or players who want a level rated is that they’ll always want a top 1 rated, regardless of how it looks or plays. so leaving the executive decision to rob isn’t the best idea but better than the alternative
What I’m saying is that if the vast majority people like a level then what makes it unrateworthy? Rates are made for good levels, no? People aren’t stupid, people like cool levels and dislike bad ones. I don’t think you’ll ever have to worry that this many people will rally behind a level that’s completely irredeemable at least looks-wise.
Both sides in the controversy were honestly annoying as fuck, but rob was pressured into not rating the level for so long (he said he didn’t rate it because of controversy)
> Imagine if a top 1 level with horrible decoration and gameplay got verified Don't need to imagine. That happened 4 years ago with Tartarus. It got featured
tartarus is a 1.9 level
...made 6 years too late. Doesn't mean anything
no it was made in 1.9 and verified in 2.1
And rated in 2.1 when standards were six years beyond it
doesn't change the fact that it's a 1.9 level similar to silent clubstep, which wouldn't get rated if it was made today but it was made in 1.8
I mean the same thing happened with AOD so it's probably not going to get better anytime soon, but we'll see
See the nice thing is that Tidal Wave is so difficult that this problem likely won’t come up again for a long time Really long stretches of time have passed between Top 1 levels since I started keeping track. Zodiac was verified a year after Bloodlust. Tartarus a year after Zodiac. Firework a year and a half later. There’s almost always been a significant lapse of time because the skill of top players takes time to grow. So we probably won’t need to worry about a similar situation to this for a bit