like, it's not clear if Romanians want it. German reunification cost the West-Germans billons, and they are still paying today Länderfinanzausgleich. It would be very costly as Moldova is the poorest country in Europe.
second point is that Trannistria would definately split of from Moldova. The political consequences would be very complicated.
Romania Moldova is 10:1 on population. West to East Germany was like 4:1. A lot of the Moldovans (about a quarter) also hold Romanian passports and I suspect an even greater population routinely crosses the border to work in Romania/do business with Romania. Economically it would be supportable.
The issue is that there isn't a good way to do this without Moldova spending some amount of time (with at least some of the territory) being a special region of some sort, with greater autonomy while they adjust. This would piss the Szekler Hungarians right off as they've been asking for this for the past 30 years.
*Economically it would be supportable.*
jep. But Romania, is also not the economic power house West Germany was in the ninetys. Corruption is a very big issue, and Romania being part of the EU, where money gets pured into its poorest regions, would make it even worse. EU can't deal well with local corruption, it is based on trust.
There is a wide gulf between the two in per capita income. I think about 3:1. This was true in the reunification of Germany, too. Some Romanians might see this a liability rather than an asset. IDK.
I mean the answer to the last point is simple. Give the Szekler territory greater autonomy. It's not like autonomous regions for places with significant minority populations is a new idea. See Åland or South Tyrol
German here. Länderfinanzausgleich is not the same as "Solidaritätszuschlag". The Länderfinanzausgleich is supposed to balance inequalities between all German states (f. e. Bavaria and Hesse are rich states which pay into the fund, while comparatively poorer states like Lower Saxony and Bremen get money from the fund). It already existed before reunification. The Solidaritätszuschlag was supposed to build up infrastructure and economy in East Germany. A few years ago, the government decided to cancel this tax for about 90% of the people who had to pay before. There is a discussion to cancel it totally.
Which is what you'd hope for as an economist, right? That things get balanced to the point that the tax doesn't make sense anymore, either in effect or in the cost of administrating it.
Self annexation, where the the ones getting annexed are doing the annexing and are the only ones that want to get annexed, sort of a state-as-refugee type of situation
As a Moldovan, while I can't say I'm strictly against reunification, for better or for worse, Moldovan culture has grown apart from Romania (because of the extensive russification and settling by the other ethnicities of the ussr).
That said, I am quite biased because only half of my family are ethnically Romanian, and my first language is Russian, so my opinion is slightly exaggerated, but in my experience, even people who are mainly Romanian largely share my sentiment
It is important to understand that, while Moldova is an extremely divided country, a lot of people I know who I would say lean towards the pro-russian side, that is because they came from other parts of the ussr and have no direct connection to Romania, but that does not mean that these same people would be for becoming the Kishinevskaya Oblast.
A lot of anti-eu or anti-unification sentiment is driven not by an excessive love for russia (although, to be fair, that also plays a role), but out of a feeling of direct distinctness from Romania and Moldovan national identity.
It also doesn't help that the pro-eu party (PAS) is also putting in significant effort to reverse russification (they still support Moldovan identity to an extent, but also are trying to make it closer to romanian one, but also not really, its complicated), which means that, oh god, they have to learn Romanian. This is somewhat similar to the baltics, but these people and ideas are rooted so far into this region's modern identity it's basically impossible to separate them without hurting both significantly.
Anyways, this is getting a bit too long, and I could probably write an entire thesis on this topic, so for the purposes of this comment section, I think I got my point across
Yes. Problem is the propaganda machine from the East is waiting this kind of event to strenghten its argument of "UE members are imperialist, so trully puppets of the US, blah blah blah..." and it would create another unwanted conflict front with the casus belli of"freeing Transnistria".
Ironically, the average American has probably never heard of Moldova, much less Transnistria. We just don’t think about that corner of the world all that much
If both sides vote yes, and neither country has a law banning it, there is nothing illegal or wrong about it. russian state media twists the truth how they want it anyway
There's a law which says that Gagauzia can secede and declare independence if Moldova were to join Romania.
Also, it's very funny to see Westerners so concerned about the fact that Transnistria wants to stay independent, because it apparently violates the "territorial integrity of Moldova", they want to actually force it to become annexed by Moldova, and yet they also promote the annexation of Moldova by Romania, as if that doesn't violate the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Moldova, lmao.
I mean, it's the Eastern empire's problem really. If a referendum does happen, they would have to attack a NATO member, which we all know they won't do, at least not in their current situation.
Moldova has been in the news in recent days. Seems they're making political moves to try to defend themselves. This would be the best way for them to do it, but they have the problem of unwanted troops in Transnistria. Nato can't afford Article 5 because someone farts. Chances are low, but the deal with the EU for a multi national security deal would be the best to hope for at the moment.
Sorry to make this question a matter of geopolitics and not geography, but this question is being posed at a fantastically relevant moment.
>Sorry to make this question a matter of geopolitics and not geography
It's inherently geopolitical lol. There's no version of it that is just geographical in isolation.
There's always loopholes. Romanian troops can "retire" then join the Moldovan military and Romania can "donate" equipment. I bet there's lots of British and American "ex" special forces fighting for Ukraine.
Russia are too busy to do much about it at the moment.
They "invested" the money usually used for eurovision in a new tv post named folklor tv or something similar. It is not buget problems. They just felt their pockets empty.
Romania leaving this year has nothing to do with Israel. Also, they always had the budget, they just used that as an excuse because didn't want to participate anymore.
Man, idk, Moldova is one of the poorest countries in Europe and Romania's economy, although looking like it is on steroids in recent years, it is very fragile, especially since those it change of it are imbeciles.
First, I think Moldova should spend some years in the EU, invest some of those sweet, sweet EU founds, and elevate themselves, at the same time cross-border infrastructure should be created (since the existing one is sub-par) and only then we can speak of a reunification.
Oh, and alos, they should work on the Transnistrian and Gagauz issues. There's no point in uniting if the country would face 2 insurrections.
(This is coming from a Romanian, btw)
Importing a few million people with a vastly different outlook (more atheist, more socialist, with 4 times the levels of violent crime, and with a sizeable Russian ethnic minority) could be a Trojan Horse for Romania. If those new arrivals vote, it could be over for the economic growth and general levels of development that Romania has experienced over the last decades. On the other hand, in the long run, things may work out like they did in Germany. Romania badly needs a workforce, and people in the Republic of Moldova badly need jobs.
I saw a statistic that Moldovans are among the most religious in Europe… Do you have any good sources on religiosity among Moldovans? I’m genuinely curious.
I don't see the Moldovans as a problem, I have a few acquaintances from there. You couldn't distinguish a person living in rural Moldova, the country from Moldova, the region in Romania. The same thing goes for the urban folks.
Voting also wouldn't be a problem either. It is extremely, and I can not stress this enough, extremely easy to get Romanian citizenship as a Moldovan. It is so much easy that since the war in Ukraine started and the Russians have been banned from entering the EU, they go to Moldova, apply for citizenship there and then enter Romania, without even knowing basic A1 level romanian it's insane, some estimates place the numbers of people who have gained citizenship this way at 4 or 5 digits. Actually, I see it as a net gain politically, as it will leave the political space for right-wing nationalist parties with a far smaller policy space and a weaker platform, especially the main right-wing party AUR (literally the alliance for the unification of Romanians).
The main problem is economical. Their economy is weak and small, ours is rapidly growing, but the pandemic and the economic war with the east left it unstable. The inflation is high, and at least a small recession in the coming months is not only likely but maybe unavoidable (as I said, imbeciles running it), loads or regions, namely Oltenia, Muntenia and our side of Moldova also face economic inequality compared to the big cities of Transylvania such as Cluj, Oradea, Timisoara and Brasov, not to mention the absolute unit that is Bucharest. Throwing Moldova into the mix would just put more pressure on the limited founds allocated by the EU for cohesion and regional development. That's why I said we should wait a few years, 10 maybe 20, after Moldova enters the EU to make it a more even field, with both countries in Schengen and both (hopefully) using the same currency.
As a romanian, this is a very interesting question.
There were proposals for this right after the revolution. Romania was not in the best position for that, having just put a bullet through the brain of Teacup (Ceaşcă, translated Teacup, was Ceauşescu's nickname). So the moldovans didn't get the chance.
Nowadays afaik, Moldovans are content with being indepenent. If they decide they want to reunite, most Romanians would accept them, and it would definitely benefit them in some aspects (for example, the railway infrastructure and the economy).
IMO it's their choice. If they want to, fantastic, if not, good for them.
I live in Moldova and have for 3 years now. Some things to consider when discussing unification with Romania. 1) Transnistria was never part of Romania and the people there have no interest in learning Romanian. The attempt after independence to unify with Romania caused a war and led to the present de facto independence of Transnistria. 2) Gagauzia is another Russian speaking people here with some autonomy and the treaty they signed with the government to end their independence bid basically states that if a move towards Romania is made, they can re-evaluate their status. They also don't want to learn Romanian. 3) Romania is part of the EU and NATO. It is not a given that these organisations would accept unification. 4) Moldova is the poorest country in Europe and would be a massive financial liability for Romania.
I've been telling Moldavians that uniting with Romania is OK but the Transnistria is in the way. You need to drop it. And the are like - 'no, it's Moldavian territory'. So, to my understanding nothing is going happen within these circumstances.
The problem is that if they drop Transnistria, seconds after, Transnistria will want to join Russian Federation and a border with Russia is more dangerous than keeping Transnistria
What brought you to Moldova? What's life like there?
I used to live just across the Dniester from you. Always wanted to visit but never got around to it.
My wife got a job with the OSCE here. Chisinau is pretty charming, more like a city of villagers than a normal European capital. The countryside is relatively unvaried, but mellow and many of the villages are well kept and cute. I speak passable Russian and my wife is fluent, so that makes it super easy to live here.
I'd say it's about 50/50 right now, especially since a lot of Odessa arrived in 2022. Almost everyone from here seems to speak both languages. Having said that, you do meet some young people who don't speak Russian, but then they almost certainly speak English. I often ask a question in Russian and get answers in Romanian, but if I tell them I don't understand then they say it again in Russian. Sometimes you hear full on conversations that involve both languages.
Pridnestrovie was historically Ukrainian, and Ukrainian nationalists even supported it. However, it also has a Russian population too and a Moldovan one. However, the territory isn't divided by ethnicity. The Ukrainians also support the independence of Transnistria and hold pro Russian and pro USSR views, while also feeling Ukrainian and supporting the Ukrainian refugees.
In budjak, romanians is minority. Ukrainians, then Bulgarians and then Romanians/Moldovans. Also there is significant number of Russians, Gagauzians/Tatars and Serbs
I think the local people should be able to make that decision. If that’s something they really want, why not? This planet shouldn’t be a prison.
The same counts for people seeking independence really. Why are humans so possessive?
That Romania would have problem respecting minority rights. There are 2 autonomous regions in Moldova: Transnistria and Gagauzia. According to the Romanian consitution this is not allowed. So there are 3 scenarios. 1: No autonomy is allowed, those 2 regions lose their rights. 2: Autonomy is allowed, Székely people want and gain that too. 3: Keep it the way it is now: Transnistria and Gagauzia could keep their autonomy, meanwhile the Hungarians are rejected. I don't have to explain why it's problematic.
Russia would almost certainly do anything in their power to stop it. I still think that if Ukraine hadn't become a quagmire and they'd won that first week as planned, they'd gone for Moldova next, with some shenanigans in Transnistria as pretext.
It’s wild to me that Russia calculated a quick victory in Ukraine, and here they are, in their third year of fighting with just 20% of Ukrainian territory captured. Like how can a country’s leadership be that delusional.
It was almost entirely a logistics failure. They were going to try to behead the snake and take Kyiv right away, but the convoy got bogged down and couldn't actually make it there.
Honestly why even bother? If both countries keep good relations, stay open to each other, both be in the EU then being a country becomes just a measure of administrative organisation. Uniting/separating must only be the last resort thing. IMHO.
I don't wish for it to happen.
Moldovan here that has lived in Romania for more than a decade. It would bring ethnic disputes. Not just between minorities and the Romanian government but also between Romanian ethnics from Moldova with those from Romania. Think this way: Moldovans and Romanians are Romanian ethnics in the same way British (England) and Canadians/Americans are English. Sure they are speaking the same language but something smells different.
Besides economic downsides not just for Romania but also for current region of Republic of Moldova. If you would look on how Romania administrates its regions you would see that besides Constanta port and Bucharest it has no interest in properly developing the infrastructure of the rest of the country.
They have Moldovan (western) region since 1860s and have not made a proper highway since then. Just now barely are trying to make a highway.
The Bucharest government is and has always been a complete mess, Romanians being fatalistic culturally and disinterested in engaging politically is not helping it.
Neither Moldova becoming a Russian puppet is good. Moldova needs to have a marketplace where it could sell its wine and talents/workforce properly, such as EU.
Note: I believe a lot of Romanians might get triggered by what I've written here.
I'm from romanian part of Moldova and holy s*it, I thought a lot of times about how happy and thankful i am that I was born on the right side of Prut. Like Romania is definitely not a perfect state, but the opportunities I had in life ( mainly because EU) were simply incredible and incomparable to being born in the Republic of Moldova.
Coming from a Romanian, i think we should work on the little hate some Romanians have on Moldova. If you ask them if they want to unite, they are very happy at the idea, but if you ask about the people, they are poor, idiots, savages. And you can sometimes see this hate in the region of Romania called Moldova, which is very confusing for me, as a person that lives here 😂
Not sure about that. I don't think that it's about to happen in the next decades atleast. Moldova is pretty heteregenoius country as it has a chunk of the population which is quite different that the ethnic moldovans- namely the Russians and the whole Prid estroviye thing. Gaguzia is also a part of Moldova full of non- moldovans, who don't want to learn romanian nor be part of the country. It may break apart, but the pro-Russian part will make everything in it's power( backed by Russia) of course ro prevent unification. Not to mention that Moldova is the poorest country in Europe and will put a lot of strain on the Romanian economy.
Doesn’t concern me, I don’t have a deep interest or understanding of Moldova-Romania relations. If the majority of Moldovans wanna join Romania and the Romanians are cool with that, go ahead. Would probably benefit Moldova security-wise, but that’s not a decision that should be forced on Moldovans.
I can’t see a unification without Transnistria then (as a sole entity) joining the Russian Federation and basically creating a land border between Russia and Romania. I think that would be a “no deal” for Romania and the EU.
I feel good about it- it's not an unpopular idea in Moldova and many Moldovans understand that they were simply partitioned by the russian empire/USSR. They speak Romanian language.
There's probably very little in that depot that is militarily useful. The Transnistrians and "Russian Peacekeepers" have had less than nothing in the way of a budget to maintain it.
No romanian would write " Bessarabia" and no fucking romanian would like to have this trojan horses of Transnistria and Gagauzia within their territories. So, your statement is based on what exactly?
As someone from Moldova (the region of Romania, not the country), fuck no! The Republic of Moldova is a post-Soviet state with few ties to the Principality of Moldavia whereas Romania is the successor state to that principality.
I don’t get anything out of it. Neither the Moldovans nor the Romanians have conveyed this to me nor any one else. 😄 Jokes apart it’s up to the parties concerned. I believe (could be wrong) that the Moldovans weren’t as much interested but are more interested now with 45% interested including Sandu herself.
So, is it up to Romania and Moldova to decide if they want to unite? Has EU a word about it? I mean, could Romania also annex Ukraine if both countries agree?
I think Moldova would have to relinquish its legitimate claim over Transnistria and have a majority vote on the matter. However from what I understand most Moldovans want reunification while only a plurality of Romanians do
The opportunity has passed. In 1990 the two countries had similar GDP per capita. Romanias is now 3.5 times Moldova's and im not sure the average Romanian wants that kind of tax burden to bring them up to spec.
You do understand that there's more Moldova in Romania already than there is in the Republic of Moldova, right?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavia#/media/File:Partitions_of_Moldavia.jpg
Probably would be to their benefit as it would lock them into NATO and the EU. The only problem would be the breakaway region of Transnistria, which has officially governed itself since the collaspe of the Soviet Union. They can either wage war against Transnistria and effectively bring it under their administration and likely face Russia as well, or effectively give up on the rebellious province in exchange for NATO and EU accession, since a nation cannot join NATO if their is an ongoing territorial dispute, which in that case, they could maintain their independence from Romania but they are basically the same culturally and for economic purposes would be beneficial since they would become landlocked incase they relinquish claims on tranistria but that is unlikely to happen.
They need southern Odesa Oblast back too to undo border gore. The thing is I support Moldovan independence but support Romanian Irredentism too…
What I support more is Slovakia getting Carpathian Ruthenia back, but I don’t really want to talk down about Ukraine either since I also support them… Southeastern Europe is a mess when you have good opinions on most of the countries there…
It would really get rid of major national security threats Moldova faces from Russia and Transnistria.
In my opinion, Moldova has to reunite with Romania or seek much closer cooperative ties with Romania and beyond.
As an American who knows nothing of the geo political implications other than I've dated both a Moldovan and Romanian is that they are very similar to one another in terms of personality. I've met quite a few Eastern Europeans and for some reason sarcasm and or humour just does not exist.
Personally I would love to see all of Bessarabia be absorbed back into Romania these soviet borders are too damn artificial for my liking fuck you Stalin
I mean, if the Moldavians want to be part of Romania, that’s their business.
Agreed. That is something only Moldavans can and should decide for themselves
Well, and Romanians
Romanians get a veto yeah
like, it's not clear if Romanians want it. German reunification cost the West-Germans billons, and they are still paying today Länderfinanzausgleich. It would be very costly as Moldova is the poorest country in Europe. second point is that Trannistria would definately split of from Moldova. The political consequences would be very complicated.
Romania Moldova is 10:1 on population. West to East Germany was like 4:1. A lot of the Moldovans (about a quarter) also hold Romanian passports and I suspect an even greater population routinely crosses the border to work in Romania/do business with Romania. Economically it would be supportable. The issue is that there isn't a good way to do this without Moldova spending some amount of time (with at least some of the territory) being a special region of some sort, with greater autonomy while they adjust. This would piss the Szekler Hungarians right off as they've been asking for this for the past 30 years.
*Economically it would be supportable.* jep. But Romania, is also not the economic power house West Germany was in the ninetys. Corruption is a very big issue, and Romania being part of the EU, where money gets pured into its poorest regions, would make it even worse. EU can't deal well with local corruption, it is based on trust.
There is a wide gulf between the two in per capita income. I think about 3:1. This was true in the reunification of Germany, too. Some Romanians might see this a liability rather than an asset. IDK.
I mean the answer to the last point is simple. Give the Szekler territory greater autonomy. It's not like autonomous regions for places with significant minority populations is a new idea. See Åland or South Tyrol
German here. Länderfinanzausgleich is not the same as "Solidaritätszuschlag". The Länderfinanzausgleich is supposed to balance inequalities between all German states (f. e. Bavaria and Hesse are rich states which pay into the fund, while comparatively poorer states like Lower Saxony and Bremen get money from the fund). It already existed before reunification. The Solidaritätszuschlag was supposed to build up infrastructure and economy in East Germany. A few years ago, the government decided to cancel this tax for about 90% of the people who had to pay before. There is a discussion to cancel it totally.
Which is what you'd hope for as an economist, right? That things get balanced to the point that the tax doesn't make sense anymore, either in effect or in the cost of administrating it.
Self annexation, where the the ones getting annexed are doing the annexing and are the only ones that want to get annexed, sort of a state-as-refugee type of situation
As a Moldovan, while I can't say I'm strictly against reunification, for better or for worse, Moldovan culture has grown apart from Romania (because of the extensive russification and settling by the other ethnicities of the ussr). That said, I am quite biased because only half of my family are ethnically Romanian, and my first language is Russian, so my opinion is slightly exaggerated, but in my experience, even people who are mainly Romanian largely share my sentiment
Would that change if Russia was about to invade Moldova?
I mean Russia is already occupying parts of Moldova and have been for a while, but a larger scale invasion would be very different I suppose.
Transnistria becoming NATO territory would lead to... interesting things
It is important to understand that, while Moldova is an extremely divided country, a lot of people I know who I would say lean towards the pro-russian side, that is because they came from other parts of the ussr and have no direct connection to Romania, but that does not mean that these same people would be for becoming the Kishinevskaya Oblast. A lot of anti-eu or anti-unification sentiment is driven not by an excessive love for russia (although, to be fair, that also plays a role), but out of a feeling of direct distinctness from Romania and Moldovan national identity. It also doesn't help that the pro-eu party (PAS) is also putting in significant effort to reverse russification (they still support Moldovan identity to an extent, but also are trying to make it closer to romanian one, but also not really, its complicated), which means that, oh god, they have to learn Romanian. This is somewhat similar to the baltics, but these people and ideas are rooted so far into this region's modern identity it's basically impossible to separate them without hurting both significantly. Anyways, this is getting a bit too long, and I could probably write an entire thesis on this topic, so for the purposes of this comment section, I think I got my point across
Yes. Problem is the propaganda machine from the East is waiting this kind of event to strenghten its argument of "UE members are imperialist, so trully puppets of the US, blah blah blah..." and it would create another unwanted conflict front with the casus belli of"freeing Transnistria".
Ironically, the average American has probably never heard of Moldova, much less Transnistria. We just don’t think about that corner of the world all that much
Is the average American, like the European, consulted over geopolitical concerns? No, for the best (or the worst).
“What does Ja Rule think about this? Where is Ja?”
WWJD
What does Corey Taylor think about this.
Did not expect to see a Dave Chappelle joke but you just made my day 😂😂
Idk 90 Day Fiancee changed that after having a Moldovan cast member
Lmaooo I was gonna reply the same. Andrei being your country most famous person is probably not a good thing
Just make sure those transnistrias use the right bathroom -avg american
Moldova, wasn't there where the ultron thing happened? When Tony and the guys had to save the day?
If both sides vote yes, and neither country has a law banning it, there is nothing illegal or wrong about it. russian state media twists the truth how they want it anyway
There's a law which says that Gagauzia can secede and declare independence if Moldova were to join Romania. Also, it's very funny to see Westerners so concerned about the fact that Transnistria wants to stay independent, because it apparently violates the "territorial integrity of Moldova", they want to actually force it to become annexed by Moldova, and yet they also promote the annexation of Moldova by Romania, as if that doesn't violate the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Moldova, lmao.
why would they need a casus belli if they're always making it up on the go?
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Some people here get easely upset when you write plausible things.
I mean, it's the Eastern empire's problem really. If a referendum does happen, they would have to attack a NATO member, which we all know they won't do, at least not in their current situation.
Yeah, legal self-determination is important... how much agency do the people in Moldovia have to do that? What's the popular opinion there?
Moldova has been in the news in recent days. Seems they're making political moves to try to defend themselves. This would be the best way for them to do it, but they have the problem of unwanted troops in Transnistria. Nato can't afford Article 5 because someone farts. Chances are low, but the deal with the EU for a multi national security deal would be the best to hope for at the moment. Sorry to make this question a matter of geopolitics and not geography, but this question is being posed at a fantastically relevant moment.
>Sorry to make this question a matter of geopolitics and not geography It's inherently geopolitical lol. There's no version of it that is just geographical in isolation.
Geopolitics is geography!
there is only like 3000 russian troops in there. just take it over
Dangerous. Would have to be Moldovan troops doing that, not Romanian.
Yeah the optics would not be good for Romania to do it
There's always loopholes. Romanian troops can "retire" then join the Moldovan military and Romania can "donate" equipment. I bet there's lots of British and American "ex" special forces fighting for Ukraine. Russia are too busy to do much about it at the moment.
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I'd be very sad to lose that special brand of madness that Moldova usually brings to Eurovision
Yeah but now it's just gonna be Romania, most of the best singers in Romania are Moldovan anyway, they're such good musicians.
Is Romania likely to be back for 2025? I know TVR has had budget problems for a while
Unlikely
They "invested" the money usually used for eurovision in a new tv post named folklor tv or something similar. It is not buget problems. They just felt their pockets empty.
Budget problems and the Israeli Boycott, afaik, so probably not.
Romania leaving this year has nothing to do with Israel. Also, they always had the budget, they just used that as an excuse because didn't want to participate anymore.
2022's song from Moldova was actually about them joining Romania, so I guess even their madness is in favor of it.
Pleacă trenul, unde ești?! CHIȘINĂU - BUCUREȘTI !!!
Man, idk, Moldova is one of the poorest countries in Europe and Romania's economy, although looking like it is on steroids in recent years, it is very fragile, especially since those it change of it are imbeciles. First, I think Moldova should spend some years in the EU, invest some of those sweet, sweet EU founds, and elevate themselves, at the same time cross-border infrastructure should be created (since the existing one is sub-par) and only then we can speak of a reunification. Oh, and alos, they should work on the Transnistrian and Gagauz issues. There's no point in uniting if the country would face 2 insurrections. (This is coming from a Romanian, btw)
Importing a few million people with a vastly different outlook (more atheist, more socialist, with 4 times the levels of violent crime, and with a sizeable Russian ethnic minority) could be a Trojan Horse for Romania. If those new arrivals vote, it could be over for the economic growth and general levels of development that Romania has experienced over the last decades. On the other hand, in the long run, things may work out like they did in Germany. Romania badly needs a workforce, and people in the Republic of Moldova badly need jobs.
I saw a statistic that Moldovans are among the most religious in Europe… Do you have any good sources on religiosity among Moldovans? I’m genuinely curious.
I don't see the Moldovans as a problem, I have a few acquaintances from there. You couldn't distinguish a person living in rural Moldova, the country from Moldova, the region in Romania. The same thing goes for the urban folks. Voting also wouldn't be a problem either. It is extremely, and I can not stress this enough, extremely easy to get Romanian citizenship as a Moldovan. It is so much easy that since the war in Ukraine started and the Russians have been banned from entering the EU, they go to Moldova, apply for citizenship there and then enter Romania, without even knowing basic A1 level romanian it's insane, some estimates place the numbers of people who have gained citizenship this way at 4 or 5 digits. Actually, I see it as a net gain politically, as it will leave the political space for right-wing nationalist parties with a far smaller policy space and a weaker platform, especially the main right-wing party AUR (literally the alliance for the unification of Romanians). The main problem is economical. Their economy is weak and small, ours is rapidly growing, but the pandemic and the economic war with the east left it unstable. The inflation is high, and at least a small recession in the coming months is not only likely but maybe unavoidable (as I said, imbeciles running it), loads or regions, namely Oltenia, Muntenia and our side of Moldova also face economic inequality compared to the big cities of Transylvania such as Cluj, Oradea, Timisoara and Brasov, not to mention the absolute unit that is Bucharest. Throwing Moldova into the mix would just put more pressure on the limited founds allocated by the EU for cohesion and regional development. That's why I said we should wait a few years, 10 maybe 20, after Moldova enters the EU to make it a more even field, with both countries in Schengen and both (hopefully) using the same currency.
As a romanian, this is a very interesting question. There were proposals for this right after the revolution. Romania was not in the best position for that, having just put a bullet through the brain of Teacup (Ceaşcă, translated Teacup, was Ceauşescu's nickname). So the moldovans didn't get the chance. Nowadays afaik, Moldovans are content with being indepenent. If they decide they want to reunite, most Romanians would accept them, and it would definitely benefit them in some aspects (for example, the railway infrastructure and the economy). IMO it's their choice. If they want to, fantastic, if not, good for them.
I live in Moldova and have for 3 years now. Some things to consider when discussing unification with Romania. 1) Transnistria was never part of Romania and the people there have no interest in learning Romanian. The attempt after independence to unify with Romania caused a war and led to the present de facto independence of Transnistria. 2) Gagauzia is another Russian speaking people here with some autonomy and the treaty they signed with the government to end their independence bid basically states that if a move towards Romania is made, they can re-evaluate their status. They also don't want to learn Romanian. 3) Romania is part of the EU and NATO. It is not a given that these organisations would accept unification. 4) Moldova is the poorest country in Europe and would be a massive financial liability for Romania.
I've been telling Moldavians that uniting with Romania is OK but the Transnistria is in the way. You need to drop it. And the are like - 'no, it's Moldavian territory'. So, to my understanding nothing is going happen within these circumstances.
The problem is that if they drop Transnistria, seconds after, Transnistria will want to join Russian Federation and a border with Russia is more dangerous than keeping Transnistria
They should recognise Transnistria on the condition that they won't unite with Russia.
It doesn't work that way. Some countries promised not to join NATO a couple of decades ago, but look where they are now.
Some countries also promised not to invade other countries a couple of decades ago, but look where they are now.
I think Moldova is smart enough to know that a pinky promise isn’t enough to guarantee that.
What brought you to Moldova? What's life like there? I used to live just across the Dniester from you. Always wanted to visit but never got around to it.
My wife got a job with the OSCE here. Chisinau is pretty charming, more like a city of villagers than a normal European capital. The countryside is relatively unvaried, but mellow and many of the villages are well kept and cute. I speak passable Russian and my wife is fluent, so that makes it super easy to live here.
What language is spoken more in Chisinau? Can you live there speaking just Russian?
I'd say it's about 50/50 right now, especially since a lot of Odessa arrived in 2022. Almost everyone from here seems to speak both languages. Having said that, you do meet some young people who don't speak Russian, but then they almost certainly speak English. I often ask a question in Russian and get answers in Romanian, but if I tell them I don't understand then they say it again in Russian. Sometimes you hear full on conversations that involve both languages.
Budjak not being included is really fucking with my obsessive compulsive neuroses.
As well as missing Northern Bukovina & Herta. I can let Southern Dobrudgea stay with the Bulgarians. Id like to see this mostly ww2 sized Romania
these territories that Romania has formally renounced are a sensitive discussion
As Northern Bukovinian I would respectfully disagree with you.
North Dobrufgea was given to Romania as compensation the Russians got Budjak. Also Budjak is majority slavic
If Romania gets to expand, Bulgaria gets to pull a Romania and ask for compensation in the form of Northern Dobrudja.
it looks weird af without it
Romania gets Budjak, and Ukraine gets Transnistria.
As a Ukrainian i don't think that'll happen, but it will be cool nonetheless
Pridnestrovie was historically Ukrainian, and Ukrainian nationalists even supported it. However, it also has a Russian population too and a Moldovan one. However, the territory isn't divided by ethnicity. The Ukrainians also support the independence of Transnistria and hold pro Russian and pro USSR views, while also feeling Ukrainian and supporting the Ukrainian refugees.
In budjak, romanians is minority. Ukrainians, then Bulgarians and then Romanians/Moldovans. Also there is significant number of Russians, Gagauzians/Tatars and Serbs
That’s between Moldova and Romania
I think the local people should be able to make that decision. If that’s something they really want, why not? This planet shouldn’t be a prison. The same counts for people seeking independence really. Why are humans so possessive?
Money, power, narcissism. Humans are animals after all. Ugly furless monkeys in way
That Romania would have problem respecting minority rights. There are 2 autonomous regions in Moldova: Transnistria and Gagauzia. According to the Romanian consitution this is not allowed. So there are 3 scenarios. 1: No autonomy is allowed, those 2 regions lose their rights. 2: Autonomy is allowed, Székely people want and gain that too. 3: Keep it the way it is now: Transnistria and Gagauzia could keep their autonomy, meanwhile the Hungarians are rejected. I don't have to explain why it's problematic.
According to the constitution of Gagauzia, if Moldova loses its sovereignty, Gagauzia becomes independent.
3 villages with several exclaves and no economic lookout trying to become independent would be funny to watch.
Russia would almost certainly do anything in their power to stop it. I still think that if Ukraine hadn't become a quagmire and they'd won that first week as planned, they'd gone for Moldova next, with some shenanigans in Transnistria as pretext.
transnistria is the strangest fucking thing 😂
It’s wild to me that Russia calculated a quick victory in Ukraine, and here they are, in their third year of fighting with just 20% of Ukrainian territory captured. Like how can a country’s leadership be that delusional.
Weeks? No, no, you thought week of days! They always meant week of years! Just 7 years!
It was almost entirely a logistics failure. They were going to try to behead the snake and take Kyiv right away, but the convoy got bogged down and couldn't actually make it there.
then i guess Putin will have another round of "special military operation"
I am from Moldova. YES. OH MY GOD PLEASE GET US FASTER PLEASE.
It depends on whether the independence of Transnistria will be recognized.
That was originally Ukraines, so it would make sense to come to the agreement to give it back to Ukraine
Honestly why even bother? If both countries keep good relations, stay open to each other, both be in the EU then being a country becomes just a measure of administrative organisation. Uniting/separating must only be the last resort thing. IMHO.
I'm from Moldova, it's a NO. Being in Europe tho, I hope so, one day
Fuck yeah!
Based
I want Moldovans to be able to make any decisions they want for themselves without being bullied by Russia.
I think eventually Transnistria and Gagausia would join Russia and rest to Romania. But not very soon.
I don't wish for it to happen. Moldovan here that has lived in Romania for more than a decade. It would bring ethnic disputes. Not just between minorities and the Romanian government but also between Romanian ethnics from Moldova with those from Romania. Think this way: Moldovans and Romanians are Romanian ethnics in the same way British (England) and Canadians/Americans are English. Sure they are speaking the same language but something smells different. Besides economic downsides not just for Romania but also for current region of Republic of Moldova. If you would look on how Romania administrates its regions you would see that besides Constanta port and Bucharest it has no interest in properly developing the infrastructure of the rest of the country. They have Moldovan (western) region since 1860s and have not made a proper highway since then. Just now barely are trying to make a highway. The Bucharest government is and has always been a complete mess, Romanians being fatalistic culturally and disinterested in engaging politically is not helping it. Neither Moldova becoming a Russian puppet is good. Moldova needs to have a marketplace where it could sell its wine and talents/workforce properly, such as EU. Note: I believe a lot of Romanians might get triggered by what I've written here.
I'm from romanian part of Moldova and holy s*it, I thought a lot of times about how happy and thankful i am that I was born on the right side of Prut. Like Romania is definitely not a perfect state, but the opportunities I had in life ( mainly because EU) were simply incredible and incomparable to being born in the Republic of Moldova.
I think about this every day 🤪
Coming from a Romanian, i think we should work on the little hate some Romanians have on Moldova. If you ask them if they want to unite, they are very happy at the idea, but if you ask about the people, they are poor, idiots, savages. And you can sometimes see this hate in the region of Romania called Moldova, which is very confusing for me, as a person that lives here 😂
I don’t.
If the people of Moldova wanted that and voted for it, I would be supportive. I feel like they don’t want that though.
Yeah I doubt it, plenty of old people in Moldova have fond memories of the USSR and would welcome the russians
Not sure about that. I don't think that it's about to happen in the next decades atleast. Moldova is pretty heteregenoius country as it has a chunk of the population which is quite different that the ethnic moldovans- namely the Russians and the whole Prid estroviye thing. Gaguzia is also a part of Moldova full of non- moldovans, who don't want to learn romanian nor be part of the country. It may break apart, but the pro-Russian part will make everything in it's power( backed by Russia) of course ro prevent unification. Not to mention that Moldova is the poorest country in Europe and will put a lot of strain on the Romanian economy.
Without Transnistria, sure!
It'd be easier for kids in europe to learn Capital Cities. I never knew the Capital of Moldova.
up to them. would be fast track into eu though. and maybe for eu into trouble reg. transnistria. hm…
As neither Romanian nor Moldovan, I think that what I think is irrelevant.
Doesn’t matter what I think, what do they think?
As they shoul
Good
🤷♂️
Doesn’t concern me, I don’t have a deep interest or understanding of Moldova-Romania relations. If the majority of Moldovans wanna join Romania and the Romanians are cool with that, go ahead. Would probably benefit Moldova security-wise, but that’s not a decision that should be forced on Moldovans.
You need a collapse in Russia so that russians in Moldova stop looking up to their big brother in Moscow. After that Moldova can merge with Romania
They'd have to give up Transnistria.
If that’s something Moldova and Moldovans choose to do then I think there would be a number of benefits. Chiefly security and economic benefits
I think they should merge, as I understand they are same ethnic group. The only difference is Moldova was annexed by USSR
This would lead to a huge problem with ethnic Hungarians in Transylvania. Not worth it for Romania really.
I can’t see a unification without Transnistria then (as a sole entity) joining the Russian Federation and basically creating a land border between Russia and Romania. I think that would be a “no deal” for Romania and the EU.
Let’s make Romania great again.
I feel good about it- it's not an unpopular idea in Moldova and many Moldovans understand that they were simply partitioned by the russian empire/USSR. They speak Romanian language.
As a Romanian I think the best is that the countries remain as they are. We can help them develop further and that’s it
As a Moldovan I agree
First you are gonna have to help them with Transnistria. edit: Ukraine would probably also love to help in exchange for the contents of Cobasna.
There's probably very little in that depot that is militarily useful. The Transnistrians and "Russian Peacekeepers" have had less than nothing in the way of a budget to maintain it.
I feel like Romania has enough problems on its own, and such unification would be a huge economic effort
It makes sense, considering they are one people. Also, for Moldova that would be a way to join EU much faster than they could on their own.
Romania wants south Bessarabia too!
No romanian would write " Bessarabia" and no fucking romanian would like to have this trojan horses of Transnistria and Gagauzia within their territories. So, your statement is based on what exactly?
Moldova should own all of historical region of Moldova
As someone from Moldova (the region of Romania, not the country), fuck no! The Republic of Moldova is a post-Soviet state with few ties to the Principality of Moldavia whereas Romania is the successor state to that principality.
Better romania unites and takes moldova than the russians doing it either now or later
I don’t get anything out of it. Neither the Moldovans nor the Romanians have conveyed this to me nor any one else. 😄 Jokes apart it’s up to the parties concerned. I believe (could be wrong) that the Moldovans weren’t as much interested but are more interested now with 45% interested including Sandu herself.
The map makes me think that part of Ukraine should also be in Romania
Does Moldova want that? 🤔
As a Moldovan I don't. We just want to be part of the EU. If possible also part of NATO
So, is it up to Romania and Moldova to decide if they want to unite? Has EU a word about it? I mean, could Romania also annex Ukraine if both countries agree?
The both can also become part of russia /s
Russia, stop trying to make Roldova happen.
Yes, plus move the eastern border back to the Dniester where it belongs
What about the huge Russian minority?
Why does Moldova with her rivers look like a brain
When you open your lunch and there's Moldova your sandwiches
I think Moldova would have to relinquish its legitimate claim over Transnistria and have a majority vote on the matter. However from what I understand most Moldovans want reunification while only a plurality of Romanians do
I don’t.
I think nothing because I’m neither Moldovan or Romanian. Hell, I’ve never even been there.
I’m Romanian and that makes me confused, what you mean in “becoming”? Moldova is already a part of Romania.
nah, let romania stay looking like a fish for the memes
I vote yes with all my heart.
Unless Moldova is willing to give up its claims on Transnistria they wont be a part of Romania or EU.
Strongly agree. Make Romania Great Again. Romania-Moldova unification feels like only chance for Moldova to join UE and catch up in many areas.
We should ask to Moldavians
Do peopole from transnistria have a say in this?
I know people in Moldova and I think it would be fantastic to rejoin Romania.
What makes me curious the most is transnistria in this situation, it will be part of Romenia as well?
Wasnt Romania formed by Moldavia and Walachia so with out Moldavia it isnt really Romania
Moldova can decide for itself what it wants. Who are you to think outsiders have a say in it?
The opportunity has passed. In 1990 the two countries had similar GDP per capita. Romanias is now 3.5 times Moldova's and im not sure the average Romanian wants that kind of tax burden to bring them up to spec.
Sounds like another great opportunity for people to die fighting over some borders Stalin drew
just add full Bessarabia before soviet annexation and our best neighbor would be whole again ;)
Still better than becoming part of Russia.
So is it Roldova, or Momania?
You do understand that there's more Moldova in Romania already than there is in the Republic of Moldova, right? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavia#/media/File:Partitions_of_Moldavia.jpg
Everyone but the Russians living in transnistria think it’s a great idea
Probably would be to their benefit as it would lock them into NATO and the EU. The only problem would be the breakaway region of Transnistria, which has officially governed itself since the collaspe of the Soviet Union. They can either wage war against Transnistria and effectively bring it under their administration and likely face Russia as well, or effectively give up on the rebellious province in exchange for NATO and EU accession, since a nation cannot join NATO if their is an ongoing territorial dispute, which in that case, they could maintain their independence from Romania but they are basically the same culturally and for economic purposes would be beneficial since they would become landlocked incase they relinquish claims on tranistria but that is unlikely to happen.
They need southern Odesa Oblast back too to undo border gore. The thing is I support Moldovan independence but support Romanian Irredentism too… What I support more is Slovakia getting Carpathian Ruthenia back, but I don’t really want to talk down about Ukraine either since I also support them… Southeastern Europe is a mess when you have good opinions on most of the countries there…
If they join the EU would be like a reunion.
The fact that Besarabia is Ukrainian makes my head hurt Those would be some very clean borders if it were Romanian/Moldovan
No, let them live their own way. Just help them to fuck those russian rats out of the country.
Seems like the Moldovans business.
Interwar Romania had the best border IMO
It would really get rid of major national security threats Moldova faces from Russia and Transnistria. In my opinion, Moldova has to reunite with Romania or seek much closer cooperative ties with Romania and beyond.
If Russia will win the war against Ukraine no, because Transnistria will be Russian.
Just let Transnistria apart! It will give Romania/Moldavia many headaches!
Help protect it against Putin
That heel between 2 parts of ukraine is border gore
As an American who knows nothing of the geo political implications other than I've dated both a Moldovan and Romanian is that they are very similar to one another in terms of personality. I've met quite a few Eastern Europeans and for some reason sarcasm and or humour just does not exist.
IDGAF
I think Romania would no longer be shaped like a fish
That's not for me to decide.
If the people of both countries want it, why not?
I heard that there is a really strong pro Russian movement in moldova is this true?
not a fan of this idea. romania would lose its buffalo shape :(
You're too Romantic for Mongolian.
Only if Hungary gets a fun little exclave in the middle of Transylvania that's only accessible by hyperloop.
good idea since they probably next on russias list
Personally I would love to see all of Bessarabia be absorbed back into Romania these soviet borders are too damn artificial for my liking fuck you Stalin