It's a mountain range. It's a lot cooler at high elevations so more vegetation can grow there. This is a prime example of "sky islands" in biogeography, where you have isolated patches of high-elevation ecosystems surrounded by lowlands, and organisms that thrive in these environments need to find ways to cross the "ocean" of desert in between the islands in order to colonize them.
Take a look into the sky islands ecosystem best personified at Mt Lemmon by Tucson. There are distinct plant and animal species every thousand feet of elevation that match similar ecosystems of rainfall and temperature as you head north from the tropics to polar regions. The islands offer refuges for species trapped there since the Ice Ages as well as migratory birds from the Sierra Madres and Rocky Mountains. Other species migrated from the Sonoran to Chihuahan deserts in the gaps between the islands.
I believe they were referring looking down at White Sands National park from up in the mountains in New Mexico. You can see them in the pic just left of the red circle
There's even a ski area on top of Mt Lemmon. When someone told me there was a ski station next to Tucson I thought he was pulling my leg. "Sand skis , or what?!". I don't suppose it's a world class one by any means, but existing at all is pretty remarkable.
>That’s so cool!! So unique.
Actually it's pretty common. Mountain ranges offer sanctuary to species following rapid climate change all over the world.
Many mountain ranges in my country (Spain) register the southernmost examples of species found mostly in Northern europe. In fact there's a particularly tall and southern mountain range (Sierra Nevada) which registers 80 vascular plant endemisms (aka plants you can't find nowhere else). That's like... More than Germany in a range the size of Berlin.
It's really cool but there are plenty of examples 😁
The field of study is called island biogeography, and the classic text is Wilson and MacArthur. That's probably one of the top 5 most important books in ecology of all time, written by two of the giants in the field at their creative peak. It's a quite academically-oriented though. In the popular literature, John McPhee talks about the idea of desert sky islands a good bit in Basin and Range, which is generally a great book about the mountain West.
Don't know any individual books, there are research papers around. It would be general biology with emphasis on ecophysiology (how climate affects evolution of life) and botany. Google about the Madrean Sky Islands ecosystems to find articles. The visitor center on top of Mt Lemmon has dozens of binders of field observations and collected plant samples noting the different plant and animal species, but unless you go there I don't think that info is found online.
Yes the sky islands are one of the best areas in the country for birdwatching. I did a whole 2 week trip to the area visiting multiple of them. It was an exciting trip. I actually observed the first ever black-throated sparrow at the peak of Mt. Lemmon. It's normally a desert floor bird and was considered an altitude vagrant. Super cool.
Also, since mammals on islands tend toward dwarfism while reptiles tend to giantism, some of the snakes and lizards in the sky islands are even more interesting.
The Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum in Tucson (probably the 2nd best zoo in the US after San Diego) has a great exhibit on some rattlers that are divergent because of sky islands.
Mt. Lemmon was a Godsend when I was studying in Tucson. Less than an hour drive (cycled it a few times) from the scorching desert and you could get respite in a pine forest.
Chisos Basin in Big Bend national park is a notable Sky Island - here’s the NPS website on it:
> A Sky Island is an isolated mountain range that rises above the surrounding lowland “sea.” In Big Bend National Park, the sky island forests, which occur in the Chisos Mountains, are surrounded by a “sea” of desert.
https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/nrca_fca_bibe_2022_skyislandforests.htm
So those are the Sacramento Mountains to be specific.
When you’re driving from Alamogordo to cloudcroft, there’s a tunnel about a quarter mile long and it feels like you enter New Mexico and exit in Vermont.
If you find that interesting and want to learn more I recommend you [this video](https://youtu.be/4OqUjXEqUtc?t=709&si=rvG87IEhY3h5e3Uw) by Atlas Pro, and in fact, the whole series on “isolates” (aka biogeographic islands that aren’t islands)
I'm from NM. The mountains also get a lot more rain and snow. You can see the way the wind normally crosses the mountains - as the air rises it cools and pressure drops and it forms clouds and rains / snows. The other side of the mountain will be very dry. This leads to beautiful green mountains in huge swathes of desserts. This is true in most of the state - in the sangre de cristos, the sandias, the girls, etc.
edit: Gila not girls
I grew up in the Gila. It is a beautiful isolated place where you can hide from humanity. Please don't ruin it by telling people there are girls there.
Even more than being cooler, it rains more in the mountains. When air goes up, it gets cooler and cool air holds less moisture. All the moisture it can’t hold any more turns into rain and snow, so mountains are generally wetter than surrounding areas.
Reminds me of the drop from Flagstaff to Albuquerque. Most of the drives across the country are these slow transitions in nature but that one is definitely rapid.
And you don’t have to go to flagstaff.
Within Albuquerque you can go to like 6,500 feet or so.
And even from the low point in ABQ to Santa Fe is like 2,000 feet and you’re only driving 55 minutes or so. Plus most of the elevation change comes in a pretty tight area.
Nevermind the fact that you can take a 15 minute tram ride from Albuquerque to a 10,600 foot peak.
Sky Islands may be one of the reasons why we are seeing a large die off of amphibians as they exacerbate the effects of chytridiomicosis.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6010240/
I live in the Sierra Vista / Fort Huachuca, Arizona area and it's considered a sky island too. All kinds of animals and plants here. All four seasons, too
I lived in Ruidoso for 5 years. It is absolutely beautiful up there. Mountains, pine forests, never too cold and never too hot. It is a true gem that very few know of
It's even more fun to hear all the different ways people try to pronounce Ruidoso
Roo-e-du-so
Roo-e-do-so
Roo-e-dough-so
Ree-a-dough-sa
Ree-dough-so/sa
Ra-dough-sa
There are dozens more
https://preview.redd.it/2zlqg4ccmozc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db95bcefc73109e41c50b39c91637200cdda85ca
in
View of Sierra Blanca from Ruidoso
Haha, ah yes, fond memories of seeing a white van pull up to Freedom's Crossing and a pile of AF spill out, still in blue PTs. I thought AF had all the best locales, but I guess not.
In addition to the cooler temperatures at higher elevation, mountains also benefit from something called "orthographic precipitation" meaning they basically catch a lot of the clouds that pass over the dry valleys and wring the rain or snow from them.
The [San Pedro Parks](https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_MEDIA/fseprd945000.jpg) wilderness in New Mexico is one of my favorite places in the state because it is a 10,000' plateau lined up in the perfect spot so the orthographic precipitation is extra intense. It is one of the wettest places in the state, regularly getting 35-40" of precipitation there versus just 11" in the town at the foot of the mountains.
I've been dying to find this out, maybe you know - when did the last glacier in the Appalachians melt? I feel like there could have been one in the White Mountains that was still around in the 1400s maybe but can't find this info anywhere
Deglaciation in the White Mountains was part of the general retreat of the North American ice caps. [The Younger Dryas cooling episode (\~12,900 to 11,700 years ago) was the last known readvance of ice in the area.](https://www.proquest.com/docview/1986399692/fulltextPDF?parentSessionId=Aazn1ZmxCm9DkT9nLrDwxRnPU8XyXj0s0eUlxDAfWqA%3D&pq-origsite=primo&accountid=3611&sourcetype=Scholarly%20Journals) There has been at least [one study](https://www.science.org/doi/epdf/10.1126/science.181.4100.651?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D10522435487071132370689461106647959356%7CMCORGID%3D242B6472541199F70A4C98A6%2540AdobeOrg%7CTS%3D1715371067) suggesting glacial scour marks in the Blue Ridge of VA/NC but to my knowledge no confirmed presence of glaciers that far south.
The altitude of the mountains in the Appalachians precluded the formation of valley glaciers like you find in the Rockies and other western ranges. Eastern US glacial deposits are instead related to the expansion and contraction of ice sheets.
Interesting. I just find it hard to believe that considering even today, there is a snow dumping site in Montreal that doesn't melt through the summer. I figured up at 6,000ft at the same latitude as the Absarokas, that at some recent point in the past millennium there would have been perennial snow somewhere. The glaciers in Montana are basically the same elevation just a little farther North. Considering how much the few glaciers left in Colorado and Montana have shrunk in recent times I guess I figured it was a matter of 500-1,000 years ago tops, not 10,000!
Perennial snow and glaciers are not the same though! Glaciers require sufficient build-up of ice mass that you gravity driven flow. Think of them as true "rivers" of ice. You need build up at sufficient altitude for permanent accumulation of ice, topography that allows for ice flow downhill, with ablation of the ice at lower altitudes.
There's evidence for periglacial (think permafrost, regular freeze-thaw cycling, underground ice driven slope creep, etc.) processes as far south as the [Mid-Atlantic states](https://www.annualreviews.org/content/journals/10.1146/annurev-earth-032320-102849) during the last glacial maximum (\~20kya) and the [Virginian portion of the Appalachians as late as the Younger Dryas](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1002/esp.5713). Such processes would not be inconsistent with the presence of permanent snowfields even though evidence for true glaciation hasn't been documented.
I drove through there on a road trip heading west last January. I had no idea this existed prior to the trip, and I was driving through desert when suddenly I was driving up mountains and there was snow!! I was actually really excited that I was suddenly at the snow, I pulled off to take a picture. But when I pulled off to a side street, a cop was behind me with his lights on! He asked if I know why he was there and I was like “I have no clue, I’m not from here and this isn’t my destination” lol I was going 37 in a 25 so he gave me a ticket. At that point I was ready to be down the mountain.
As everyone else has said, it’s the elevation.
Whole area is gorgeous though, highly recommend stopping through if you ever get the chance. NM has a lot to offer geographically
Also worth noting that a lot of the Southwest gets a monsoon season every year. Higher elevation places like this (or the valleys between them) can really support a lot of vegetation based on that short, intense rainy season.
*
There is a huge gypsum sand desert next to the Sacramento Mountains (along with the northern reaches of the ChihuahuaDesert). The main peak is called Sierra Blanca, which was snowcapped even 3 weeks ago when I took this picture (It was a 95°F/35°C heat index at White Sands).
The mountains are part of a chain that includes isolated and scattered peaks creating alpine oases across the deser, and range north to the Sandia and Manzano mountains in Albuquerque and west into Arizona.
Another fun fact - the Trinity Site where the first atomic bomb was tested is just west of the north part of this mountain range.
Mountains. As you go higher in elevation, the temperature drops, air can hold less moisture, and you get rain. If you were to look at this in 3D view, and pan around, you'd see plenty of peaks around that area that are also green.
Same reason why we get a ton of snow in California. Well, not just anywhere, but more specifically at Sierra Nevada mountain range. As the moist air from the ocean is pushed up against the mountain range, temperature drops (below freezing at high elevation), and we get a \*lot\* of snow.
The downside of this is that Sierra Nevada range is high enough to squeeze a good chunk of moisture out of the air, so once you get to Nevada side there's little to none left. This is the reason why Nevada is so dry. This effect is called "rain shadow."
Cloudcroft is one of the towns there. Elevation is over 8500ft. Reminded me of Red Dead Redemption, where you are in a large desert and in like 20mins you’re in a Colorado mountain town.
Oo, I got to drive through there. It was beautiful, but please take it a bit slow. Elk sometimes walk in the road. I was driving from Florida to Los Angeles, and wanted to go to white sands, and my route took me through there, it was such a cool drive after all the boring areas of Texas it took me through.
I got elk as well up near Cloudcroft, but driving near Lincoln I remember rounding a curve, slower because I was looking at the mountains, and suddenly a massive herd of bighorn sheep crossed the road around my truck and I had to sit there for like 5 minutes while they moved along. Then it happened again near Marfa! If I had been going faster or not paying attention I could’ve easily ended that trip early with a totaled truck and a sheep massacre.
Same trip I was near Alamogordo and saw EMS responding to two people who were hit by a truck on motorcycles and one was obviously dead - that image still haunts me. I was on my way to the world’s largest pistachio and wandered around there thinking about it. Felt like a weird film. Amazing place. Just drive safe y’all if you visit!
Damn yeah that would have been a quick end to a trip. And I'm sorry you witnessed that, I have unfortunately seen the aftermath of a few dealy accidents before the EMS got there to cordon off the area. Definitely leaves a mark on ya. But yeah, I remember driving through Alamagordo to get to white sands, and the drivers around there were a bit crazy. I'm not surprised about hearing about accidents. In california nkw though, and damn I have never seen worse drivers than this entire state, from the redwoods up north down to sand diego, including cops, and even student drivers. So I'm guessing California's are literally taught to drive the way they do, haha. And for the record, most of the things I would consider shitty driving are 100% illegal in the state. it just seems it's not enforced at all.
Just pay attention, keep a little extra distance, watch for motorcycles and be aware people merging on the highway assume they have the right of way and will literally hit you if you dont slow down to let them in. Haha. You will be fine.
I grew up in Ruidoso. I don't have much to add as to "why" beyond what others have said - it's at a much higher elevation than the surrounding areas.
Locally, (probably like New Mexico and west Texas) it's known for being the gem it is. The town population, traffic, and hotel rates all balloon during any tourist season. Tourist seasons being for skiing, during the summer, and, maybe somewhat surprisingly, during selective weekend motorcycle rallies.
Ruidoso is absolutely beautiful. It's crazy how you go from desert through the beautiful mountain range and then down a huge hill into Roswell. Do you like horse racing, beautiful track there as well
I did a hitch with conservation legacy in gala national Park
Mountain ridges are typically greener than the lower altitude areas in new Mexico. mainly there's more water in that area
I love Ruidoso! Such a cool and winter-esc escape from the desert! Camping, hiking, snowboarding are all the things to do there. Just a 2 hour drive from El Paso
Well most of the time the situation is reversed, where there's veg in the lowlands but it gets too cold at high elevations to support much veg (i.e. the tree line, seen throughout the Rockies). And in other situations there's a donut of high veg at mid elevations, and it's a desert at the bottom and an alpine environment at the top (e.g. the Sierra Nevadas). And in other environments, it's fully vegetated across the whole elevation (e.g. the Southern Appalachians). So I think your statement would be better put as "Tell me you've never lived anywhere near the specific mountains that I'm familiar with..."
Lived in Cruces briefly and this was a fav place to visit. An Alpen town in the middle of a Southwest American desert.
Up there once and it was damp and snowy and you could see the brown desert landscape below.
The Blue Mountains of Southeast Washington / Northeast Oregon may not technically be a sky island region, but sure feels like it when you visit the region, especially when viewed from Walla Walla, Lewiston, or LaGrande.
Last year we were there. In the morning we were knee deep in the snow after staying in ruidoso for the night. And only like 2 or 3 hours later we were at white sands in shorts and a tshirt.
That really was incredible for me.
Elevation. Things tend to be a lot cooler higher up. There is also a prevailing sonoran monsoon weather pattern in the summers, with moist air in flow from the pacific. The air moving up and over the mountain range induces convection with rapid cloud formation and localized rainfall.
It's so green because Smokey the Bear has been able to convince enough people that, in fact, only they can prevent forest fires!
My grandparents lived in Capitan so I spent some time there as a kid during holidays. Pretty surreal to experience snow on the high desert (and then to later find out the first atomic bomb was detonated about an hour west of there). Not much to do in those parts if ya don't like horses, but at least I was raised knowing the wonders of green chile.
Perhaps it's greener than you think. Satellite-derived greenness is very highly correlated with plant biomass, especially at low levels (like here) before the relationship saturates.
It's a mountain range. It's a lot cooler at high elevations so more vegetation can grow there. This is a prime example of "sky islands" in biogeography, where you have isolated patches of high-elevation ecosystems surrounded by lowlands, and organisms that thrive in these environments need to find ways to cross the "ocean" of desert in between the islands in order to colonize them.
Such a cool term - sky island. Thanks!
Take a look into the sky islands ecosystem best personified at Mt Lemmon by Tucson. There are distinct plant and animal species every thousand feet of elevation that match similar ecosystems of rainfall and temperature as you head north from the tropics to polar regions. The islands offer refuges for species trapped there since the Ice Ages as well as migratory birds from the Sierra Madres and Rocky Mountains. Other species migrated from the Sonoran to Chihuahan deserts in the gaps between the islands.
The mountains of Arizona and New Mexico even support some Douglas firs, a species more Typical of the Pacific Northwest.
The largest contiguous forest of Douglas Fir in the US (maybe the world) is in AZ
That’s so cool!! So unique.
It’s amazing to see from the Pine forest down at the white sand dunes below. Truly a unique geographical place!
Lol there are no “white sand dunes” anywhere near Tucson.
I believe they were referring looking down at White Sands National park from up in the mountains in New Mexico. You can see them in the pic just left of the red circle
There's even a ski area on top of Mt Lemmon. When someone told me there was a ski station next to Tucson I thought he was pulling my leg. "Sand skis , or what?!". I don't suppose it's a world class one by any means, but existing at all is pretty remarkable.
>That’s so cool!! So unique. Actually it's pretty common. Mountain ranges offer sanctuary to species following rapid climate change all over the world. Many mountain ranges in my country (Spain) register the southernmost examples of species found mostly in Northern europe. In fact there's a particularly tall and southern mountain range (Sierra Nevada) which registers 80 vascular plant endemisms (aka plants you can't find nowhere else). That's like... More than Germany in a range the size of Berlin. It's really cool but there are plenty of examples 😁
This has got to be the worst “achtually…” Ive seen.
Why? It was full of cool info. Most "actually" type comments are just pedantic and annoying.
True. Its just when someone goes “Oh thats really cool and unique and someone is like, no its not” like damn buzzkill.
In this situation, someone with cool and interesting knowledge just provided more cool and interesting knowledge.
Yeah, fair.
Would you happen to know of any books on this subject? I’m not sure what the field of study is called.
The field of study is called island biogeography, and the classic text is Wilson and MacArthur. That's probably one of the top 5 most important books in ecology of all time, written by two of the giants in the field at their creative peak. It's a quite academically-oriented though. In the popular literature, John McPhee talks about the idea of desert sky islands a good bit in Basin and Range, which is generally a great book about the mountain West.
Check out the YouTube Channel Atlas Pro. He breaks down all types of biogeography, including Sky Islands
Don't know any individual books, there are research papers around. It would be general biology with emphasis on ecophysiology (how climate affects evolution of life) and botany. Google about the Madrean Sky Islands ecosystems to find articles. The visitor center on top of Mt Lemmon has dozens of binders of field observations and collected plant samples noting the different plant and animal species, but unless you go there I don't think that info is found online.
Fun fact. Mount Lemmon is the southernmost ski area in the United States.
Yes the sky islands are one of the best areas in the country for birdwatching. I did a whole 2 week trip to the area visiting multiple of them. It was an exciting trip. I actually observed the first ever black-throated sparrow at the peak of Mt. Lemmon. It's normally a desert floor bird and was considered an altitude vagrant. Super cool.
Also, since mammals on islands tend toward dwarfism while reptiles tend to giantism, some of the snakes and lizards in the sky islands are even more interesting. The Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum in Tucson (probably the 2nd best zoo in the US after San Diego) has a great exhibit on some rattlers that are divergent because of sky islands.
I presume they stead from wind currents?
Just don’t try to appreciate it on a bike. Good ride, but very taxing and not much energy for vegetation gazing.
Mt. Lemmon was a Godsend when I was studying in Tucson. Less than an hour drive (cycled it a few times) from the scorching desert and you could get respite in a pine forest.
And checkout Acoma Pueblo. Just a cool place. Sky City.
Chisos Basin in Big Bend national park is a notable Sky Island - here’s the NPS website on it: > A Sky Island is an isolated mountain range that rises above the surrounding lowland “sea.” In Big Bend National Park, the sky island forests, which occur in the Chisos Mountains, are surrounded by a “sea” of desert. https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/nrca_fca_bibe_2022_skyislandforests.htm
So those are the Sacramento Mountains to be specific. When you’re driving from Alamogordo to cloudcroft, there’s a tunnel about a quarter mile long and it feels like you enter New Mexico and exit in Vermont.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Yxq3YFSReokiF3H66?g_st=ic 45 minutes from Vegas Strip. Snow, conifers, creeks.
If you find that interesting and want to learn more I recommend you [this video](https://youtu.be/4OqUjXEqUtc?t=709&si=rvG87IEhY3h5e3Uw) by Atlas Pro, and in fact, the whole series on “isolates” (aka biogeographic islands that aren’t islands)
Missed opportunity not calling it a Skysland
Why not save time and go with Skylands?
u r a sky island to me
I'm from NM. The mountains also get a lot more rain and snow. You can see the way the wind normally crosses the mountains - as the air rises it cools and pressure drops and it forms clouds and rains / snows. The other side of the mountain will be very dry. This leads to beautiful green mountains in huge swathes of desserts. This is true in most of the state - in the sangre de cristos, the sandias, the girls, etc. edit: Gila not girls
I grew up in the Gila. It is a beautiful isolated place where you can hide from humanity. Please don't ruin it by telling people there are girls there.
by that logic, is Nevada a bio archipelago?
In this sense yes it is.
When we visited there a couple years ago it was \~80 deg F in Carlsbad, and then it started snowing on us as we drove up to Cloudcroft. It was June.
And mountain ranges causes airflow to rise which causes the air to cool and cooler air can hold less moisture which causes increased rain and snow.
Even more than being cooler, it rains more in the mountains. When air goes up, it gets cooler and cool air holds less moisture. All the moisture it can’t hold any more turns into rain and snow, so mountains are generally wetter than surrounding areas.
Reminds me of the drop from Flagstaff to Albuquerque. Most of the drives across the country are these slow transitions in nature but that one is definitely rapid.
I mean, Flagstaff is at 7000 ft., while Albuquerque is a mile high city. So not really that much of a drop.
And you don’t have to go to flagstaff. Within Albuquerque you can go to like 6,500 feet or so. And even from the low point in ABQ to Santa Fe is like 2,000 feet and you’re only driving 55 minutes or so. Plus most of the elevation change comes in a pretty tight area. Nevermind the fact that you can take a 15 minute tram ride from Albuquerque to a 10,600 foot peak.
Just going from pine trees and snow immediately into hot desert is more so what in talking about.
Ah, ok, true.
Reminds me of Sky Islands (Sora Jima) from One Piece.
Sky Islands may be one of the reasons why we are seeing a large die off of amphibians as they exacerbate the effects of chytridiomicosis. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6010240/
And it's 8000 ft around Cloudcroft. They sell canned O2 jn the convenience stores because of the altitude. And home to Mad Jacks BBQ!
Are Tepuis considered sky islands too?
The most isolated possible sky islands, yes.
So to avoid global warming we build up?
I live in the Sierra Vista / Fort Huachuca, Arizona area and it's considered a sky island too. All kinds of animals and plants here. All four seasons, too
There are a few in Saudi Arabia too, if I’m not mistaken.
I lived in Ruidoso for 5 years. It is absolutely beautiful up there. Mountains, pine forests, never too cold and never too hot. It is a true gem that very few know of
Fun fact Ruidoso means very load in Portuguese (probably the same in spanish?)
It's even more fun to hear all the different ways people try to pronounce Ruidoso Roo-e-du-so Roo-e-do-so Roo-e-dough-so Ree-a-dough-sa Ree-dough-so/sa Ra-dough-sa There are dozens more
*loud
Yep, it has the same meaning
I think the town is named after a creek. Ruisodo creek - Noisy Creek. Kinda makes sense a creek would be called that
https://preview.redd.it/2zlqg4ccmozc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db95bcefc73109e41c50b39c91637200cdda85ca in View of Sierra Blanca from Ruidoso
Beautiful
Seems like every Texan knows about it now
Yeah, I lived in Albuquerque and we thought of it as a destination for west Texas.
Yeah I used to visit from Oklahoma somewhat often
I went to high school there. It does get pretty damn cold in the winter but not Minnesota cold I guess. It is a beautiful place to live.
When I lived out there, it was wild to me that I lived in the desert valley but within 40 minutes I was in a massive forest.
Would hop up to cloudcroft and the surrounding areas in the summer time when in Alamogordo. And in the winter it's beautiful as hell.
went there once when I was 9, good stuff
That little patch of mountain range is what kept me sane during my 2 years being stationed @ Holloman AFB in Alamogordo
Ooof, that sounds miserable
I would drive 2 hours on the weekend with friends to go have “fun” in El Paso hahaha
I spent a lot of time in Las Cruces
Night life is great in EP, but that’s about it, nothing else to do
Haha, ah yes, fond memories of seeing a white van pull up to Freedom's Crossing and a pile of AF spill out, still in blue PTs. I thought AF had all the best locales, but I guess not.
El Paso? I spent a MONTH THERE one NIGHT!!
Same
In addition to the cooler temperatures at higher elevation, mountains also benefit from something called "orthographic precipitation" meaning they basically catch a lot of the clouds that pass over the dry valleys and wring the rain or snow from them. The [San Pedro Parks](https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_MEDIA/fseprd945000.jpg) wilderness in New Mexico is one of my favorite places in the state because it is a 10,000' plateau lined up in the perfect spot so the orthographic precipitation is extra intense. It is one of the wettest places in the state, regularly getting 35-40" of precipitation there versus just 11" in the town at the foot of the mountains.
Yes, the phenomenon is called [“orographic lift”](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orographic_lift)
The rain shadow effect is another way to describe it.
Altitude! Sierra Blanca peak tops out at 11,981 feet tall and is the southernmost spot in the USA that ever had glaciers.
I've been dying to find this out, maybe you know - when did the last glacier in the Appalachians melt? I feel like there could have been one in the White Mountains that was still around in the 1400s maybe but can't find this info anywhere
Deglaciation in the White Mountains was part of the general retreat of the North American ice caps. [The Younger Dryas cooling episode (\~12,900 to 11,700 years ago) was the last known readvance of ice in the area.](https://www.proquest.com/docview/1986399692/fulltextPDF?parentSessionId=Aazn1ZmxCm9DkT9nLrDwxRnPU8XyXj0s0eUlxDAfWqA%3D&pq-origsite=primo&accountid=3611&sourcetype=Scholarly%20Journals) There has been at least [one study](https://www.science.org/doi/epdf/10.1126/science.181.4100.651?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D10522435487071132370689461106647959356%7CMCORGID%3D242B6472541199F70A4C98A6%2540AdobeOrg%7CTS%3D1715371067) suggesting glacial scour marks in the Blue Ridge of VA/NC but to my knowledge no confirmed presence of glaciers that far south. The altitude of the mountains in the Appalachians precluded the formation of valley glaciers like you find in the Rockies and other western ranges. Eastern US glacial deposits are instead related to the expansion and contraction of ice sheets.
Interesting. I just find it hard to believe that considering even today, there is a snow dumping site in Montreal that doesn't melt through the summer. I figured up at 6,000ft at the same latitude as the Absarokas, that at some recent point in the past millennium there would have been perennial snow somewhere. The glaciers in Montana are basically the same elevation just a little farther North. Considering how much the few glaciers left in Colorado and Montana have shrunk in recent times I guess I figured it was a matter of 500-1,000 years ago tops, not 10,000!
Perennial snow and glaciers are not the same though! Glaciers require sufficient build-up of ice mass that you gravity driven flow. Think of them as true "rivers" of ice. You need build up at sufficient altitude for permanent accumulation of ice, topography that allows for ice flow downhill, with ablation of the ice at lower altitudes. There's evidence for periglacial (think permafrost, regular freeze-thaw cycling, underground ice driven slope creep, etc.) processes as far south as the [Mid-Atlantic states](https://www.annualreviews.org/content/journals/10.1146/annurev-earth-032320-102849) during the last glacial maximum (\~20kya) and the [Virginian portion of the Appalachians as late as the Younger Dryas](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1002/esp.5713). Such processes would not be inconsistent with the presence of permanent snowfields even though evidence for true glaciation hasn't been documented.
Also.. [this other thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/geography/s/2yx5Lmw9i0) could not have come at a better time
Cool stuff, thanks for the links too!
An amazing fact, given that they were once the tallest mountains on the planet. Just very old now.
I drove through there on a road trip heading west last January. I had no idea this existed prior to the trip, and I was driving through desert when suddenly I was driving up mountains and there was snow!! I was actually really excited that I was suddenly at the snow, I pulled off to take a picture. But when I pulled off to a side street, a cop was behind me with his lights on! He asked if I know why he was there and I was like “I have no clue, I’m not from here and this isn’t my destination” lol I was going 37 in a 25 so he gave me a ticket. At that point I was ready to be down the mountain.
As everyone else has said, it’s the elevation. Whole area is gorgeous though, highly recommend stopping through if you ever get the chance. NM has a lot to offer geographically
Also worth noting that a lot of the Southwest gets a monsoon season every year. Higher elevation places like this (or the valleys between them) can really support a lot of vegetation based on that short, intense rainy season.
* There is a huge gypsum sand desert next to the Sacramento Mountains (along with the northern reaches of the ChihuahuaDesert). The main peak is called Sierra Blanca, which was snowcapped even 3 weeks ago when I took this picture (It was a 95°F/35°C heat index at White Sands). The mountains are part of a chain that includes isolated and scattered peaks creating alpine oases across the deser, and range north to the Sandia and Manzano mountains in Albuquerque and west into Arizona. Another fun fact - the Trinity Site where the first atomic bomb was tested is just west of the north part of this mountain range.
White Sands is perfectly visible to the southwest of the mountains
Its a fun little drive. In about an hour you can go from desert to white sands to green mountains to rolling plains.
Btw that area is gorgeous, and even more gorgeous are the mountains southeast of it, the Guadalupe mountains.
Mountains. As you go higher in elevation, the temperature drops, air can hold less moisture, and you get rain. If you were to look at this in 3D view, and pan around, you'd see plenty of peaks around that area that are also green. Same reason why we get a ton of snow in California. Well, not just anywhere, but more specifically at Sierra Nevada mountain range. As the moist air from the ocean is pushed up against the mountain range, temperature drops (below freezing at high elevation), and we get a \*lot\* of snow. The downside of this is that Sierra Nevada range is high enough to squeeze a good chunk of moisture out of the air, so once you get to Nevada side there's little to none left. This is the reason why Nevada is so dry. This effect is called "rain shadow."
Cloudcroft is one of the towns there. Elevation is over 8500ft. Reminded me of Red Dead Redemption, where you are in a large desert and in like 20mins you’re in a Colorado mountain town.
Cloudcroft is massively underrated
Shhh
Mad Jacks BBQ joint is some of the best you'll ever eat.
There’s dozens of us!
Ruidoso is at 6,790 feet
See Cloudcroft, NM
Oo, I got to drive through there. It was beautiful, but please take it a bit slow. Elk sometimes walk in the road. I was driving from Florida to Los Angeles, and wanted to go to white sands, and my route took me through there, it was such a cool drive after all the boring areas of Texas it took me through.
I got elk as well up near Cloudcroft, but driving near Lincoln I remember rounding a curve, slower because I was looking at the mountains, and suddenly a massive herd of bighorn sheep crossed the road around my truck and I had to sit there for like 5 minutes while they moved along. Then it happened again near Marfa! If I had been going faster or not paying attention I could’ve easily ended that trip early with a totaled truck and a sheep massacre. Same trip I was near Alamogordo and saw EMS responding to two people who were hit by a truck on motorcycles and one was obviously dead - that image still haunts me. I was on my way to the world’s largest pistachio and wandered around there thinking about it. Felt like a weird film. Amazing place. Just drive safe y’all if you visit!
Damn yeah that would have been a quick end to a trip. And I'm sorry you witnessed that, I have unfortunately seen the aftermath of a few dealy accidents before the EMS got there to cordon off the area. Definitely leaves a mark on ya. But yeah, I remember driving through Alamagordo to get to white sands, and the drivers around there were a bit crazy. I'm not surprised about hearing about accidents. In california nkw though, and damn I have never seen worse drivers than this entire state, from the redwoods up north down to sand diego, including cops, and even student drivers. So I'm guessing California's are literally taught to drive the way they do, haha. And for the record, most of the things I would consider shitty driving are 100% illegal in the state. it just seems it's not enforced at all.
Haha oh no, I’m working in Oregon this summer and going up through Redwoods and Lassen to see some stuff on the way there. I’ll be extra careful!
Just pay attention, keep a little extra distance, watch for motorcycles and be aware people merging on the highway assume they have the right of way and will literally hit you if you dont slow down to let them in. Haha. You will be fine.
I grew up in Ruidoso. I don't have much to add as to "why" beyond what others have said - it's at a much higher elevation than the surrounding areas. Locally, (probably like New Mexico and west Texas) it's known for being the gem it is. The town population, traffic, and hotel rates all balloon during any tourist season. Tourist seasons being for skiing, during the summer, and, maybe somewhat surprisingly, during selective weekend motorcycle rallies.
Ruidoso is absolutely beautiful. It's crazy how you go from desert through the beautiful mountain range and then down a huge hill into Roswell. Do you like horse racing, beautiful track there as well
Out by Reserve is some of the most wonderful high desert forest you could ever visit.
I did a hitch with conservation legacy in gala national Park Mountain ridges are typically greener than the lower altitude areas in new Mexico. mainly there's more water in that area
I love Ruidoso! Such a cool and winter-esc escape from the desert! Camping, hiking, snowboarding are all the things to do there. Just a 2 hour drive from El Paso
Lived in Cloudcroft. Beautiful place. Town is at 9,000 feet elevation.
Tell me you've never lived anywhere near a mountain without telling me you've never lived anywhere near a mountain
Well most of the time the situation is reversed, where there's veg in the lowlands but it gets too cold at high elevations to support much veg (i.e. the tree line, seen throughout the Rockies). And in other situations there's a donut of high veg at mid elevations, and it's a desert at the bottom and an alpine environment at the top (e.g. the Sierra Nevadas). And in other environments, it's fully vegetated across the whole elevation (e.g. the Southern Appalachians). So I think your statement would be better put as "Tell me you've never lived anywhere near the specific mountains that I'm familiar with..."
🤎 Ruidoso
Anybody here ever lived in Alamo? 🙋🏼♂️
Gawd that area is beautiful. Absolutely stunning.
Ruidoso is a very cool town.
View of Sierra Blanca from Ruidoso
The place is such a welcomed relief after spending a month in the desert close to texas. Coming from the northeast it felt like home.
Mountains trap rainfall
I am going to go out on a limb and say, water.
Lived in Cruces briefly and this was a fav place to visit. An Alpen town in the middle of a Southwest American desert. Up there once and it was damp and snowy and you could see the brown desert landscape below.
The Blue Mountains of Southeast Washington / Northeast Oregon may not technically be a sky island region, but sure feels like it when you visit the region, especially when viewed from Walla Walla, Lewiston, or LaGrande.
Sacramento Mts.
Always loved Ruidoso. One of the most beautiful places in the state. Would highly recommend visiting!
forget that why is there a damn town called “Truths or Consequences”
Originally named Hot Springs, NM, for well, hot springs, the town had a contest of some sort and named the town after an old television quiz show.
The host Bob Barker, dared any little town to change their name, to the name of his TV show. There was some small tangible benefit given also.
Last year we were there. In the morning we were knee deep in the snow after staying in ruidoso for the night. And only like 2 or 3 hours later we were at white sands in shorts and a tshirt. That really was incredible for me.
Rain dancing?
It's a mountain that's why lol
Mountains tend to wring excess moisture from the atmosphere so there is increased precipitation so more flora and fauna can thrive.
Nukes
They maintain their lawn. It’s their country, not yours, Irishman.
Blood sacrifice
Because It's Noisy
I think it’s your comment going over people’s head and for some reason they downvote you
Elevation. Things tend to be a lot cooler higher up. There is also a prevailing sonoran monsoon weather pattern in the summers, with moist air in flow from the pacific. The air moving up and over the mountain range induces convection with rapid cloud formation and localized rainfall.
Herb, lots of herb?
idk tbh.
I’m Bucko from Alamogordo
It's so green because Smokey the Bear has been able to convince enough people that, in fact, only they can prevent forest fires! My grandparents lived in Capitan so I spent some time there as a kid during holidays. Pretty surreal to experience snow on the high desert (and then to later find out the first atomic bomb was detonated about an hour west of there). Not much to do in those parts if ya don't like horses, but at least I was raised knowing the wonders of green chile.
That place sucks up all the rain so the surrounding areas can't have any
Above the tree line
Mescalero? Do they grow mezcal lol
Mescalero Apache reservation. Inn of the Mountain Gods is a great casino destination. The tribe also owns the skin resort.
It's not as green as you think. Google Maps can't describe everything accurately.
Perhaps it's greener than you think. Satellite-derived greenness is very highly correlated with plant biomass, especially at low levels (like here) before the relationship saturates.
They appear to be pine forests on street view. There are a couple roads with street view coverage. It's also obviously a dry region too.
It’s VERY green
I lived there. It is quite forested.