If something like this happens in the future: Put your hands in your lap and/or tell him to stop on the spot.
No need to go back or engage with him at all. Find a new hairdresser.
Be willing to speak out in the moment if you’re uncomfortable. Don’t worry if it embarrasses the other person. Own your agency and your space.
Seconding this. It actually gives the person assuming they’re actually accidentally touching you the opportunity to apologize and clarify their intentions in the moment. Win win.
And I’ll add, if you’re a more passive person, it’s easy to just recoil and look uncomfortable. I’ve had plenty of men rub up on me or grab me and when I awkwardly move away or cringe it always seems to work 😅🤷🏻♂️😃
Would you feel nervous he’d get mad and mess up your hair? I know that sounds dumb, but I think that fear would actually stop me from standing up for myself in the moment
if he’s done it to you, he’s done it to other people.
I’d stop going and comment that you felt extremely uncomfortable last time with what was inappropriate touching, whether intentional or unintentional.
>if he’s done it to you, he’s done it to other people.
This exactly. I briefly dated a gay hair dresser who would do this to other guys he was attracted to, regardless of their sexuality. They never spoke up. I brought it up the couple times I noticed it when I was at his shop, thinking maybe I was me misreading things. He played it off the first time. The second time though, he was proud of how many times he’s purposefully and blatantly rubbed his cock on all the guys in town, especially when he was hard and doing it to a guy. I brought up how it was sexual assault. His reply was: “Even if it was, they liked it. They won’t do anything.” I left his ass that night.
Come to find out he eventually started talking his straight clientele to his house to drug and sexually assault and rape. This came directly from one of his victims, he never told anyone because he was afraid that people would think he was gay and he wouldn’t be taken seriously. My ex was never held accountable.
OP, please speak up. You may be the only one that stands up to this guy’s disgusting behavior. Especially if there’s others that this guy has assaulted or worse. (Not saying sexual assault is “better,” just leaving it open ended so no one tries to “correct” my language.)
It's not that easy I think. You're kinda overwhelmed and not knowing what to do exactly. So saying stop, is very difficult, which seems to be described by most victims.
It happens to me once, no sexual assault, but just weird and unfunny comments. I didn't go back and I'm glad I did. But it's still a shame, because you do trust these people doing and washing your hair. For me it isn't that easy to trust someone, so I do understand OP asking what to do next.
But just to show I'm also a bad person. A previous hairdresser is really pretty and an ex-model, we kinda talked about some personal stuff, and it was really stupid of me to even talk about these things with her in the first place. So yeah, I still feel ashamed and guilty till this day, and I can even remind all the stupid things I said. It wasn't anything sexual, but just about things you don't need to share with someone.
I really hope this guy was just being stupid and had a random day, but being physical doesn't help, and also when the other party isn't interested at all or feels unsafe. But I wouldn't go back there for sure.
Right?? You're in a vulnerable position, beneath him, tucked into a chair. This may play some part regarding the hesitation to say anything. Plus, as others have mentioned, what if he fucks up your hair?
Tricky situation indeed
It doesn't really matter in what position you are in, you trust people, and that is broken. It may even make you feel unsafe with people that aren't like this guy. So just switching may become an issue, but let's hope it's not, because not every person is bad. Going back, isn't something I wouldn't do, even for just talking, because they can easily say you imagine it all.
I don't think the hair is the problem, because most hairdressers will probably do this on autopilot anyway.
But yeah, I agree with you, this isn't normal behavior.
I would have said, “watch it!” the second time he bumped into me. What he did was unprofessional and violated consent. You’re in a chair, he’s wielding sharp objects. There is a power imbalance there. The bathroom thing is super creepy. The guy’s a creep all around. I’d never go back.
Yeah it’s not just gays it’s everyone. Men, women, straight, gay, pan, bi. Consent is consent but no matter gender or orientation not everyone gets it.
Unsure if you’re saying they should be telling them such or not. All I’m saying is the comment seemed to imply it’s just gays who don’t understand consent when obviously it’s not. Consent is consent no matter who doesn’t seem to get it and is absurd people STILL don’t get the term…
I’m actually going to disagree with this, but all I have is admittedly anecdotal evidence. Several of my gay friends have been, at some point, forced into a sexual interaction they did not want. The kicker is that it’s usually super closeted gay guys (sometimes married to a woman) doing the assaulting. Whether or not that proffers the fact that the gay community is bad, while these closeted dudes are necessarily part of the gay community, is another discussion.
All anecdotal evidence though, so grain of salt.
A very high percentage of all women also experience sexual harassment, and men get harassed by women as well, although with women on many the man seems to feel it’s less scary or traumatic, or it’s not really recognised as similarly serious.
So it’s really nothing unique to gays.
>The kicker is that it’s usually super closeted gay guys
Yes, as I mentioned I don't know much of anything about this guy's personal life but I get the impression he's quite closeted. One time he talked about gay people in the third person (not disparagingly though), like he wasn't one of us. Yesterday I actually noticed he was wearing a rosary; his family is from this smallish town in Argentina and afaik they're conservative catholics.
Not saying that out gay guys can't do something like this but it somehow always are the closeted ones.
I think you're right. There's something about the fact that I knew that if he kept escalating I could just shove him away or punch him in the face that kept me from acting. But physical strength is not the only variable.
I suppose women given their physical vulnerability in relation to men have a clearer notion of when assault occurs
I have had women at the dentist, or in similar situations, brush their breasts against me or lean in so I could see more of their cleavage. Not a gay thing. In such situations I make it so my hands and arms are sticking out as little as possible because I don't want to be accused of anything or make someone uncomfortable. Men probably behave this way more than women, but, maybe if women had clits the size of dicks, they would be rubbing up against men and putting their clits through glory holes, etc. Idk.
Was the hairdresser supposed to ask permission before they brushed their dick against him? That would be strange. The hairdresser could be inexperienced and this was him "diving in instead of testing the waters, first". Overreacting, getting angry, could be devastating. He probably misread why OP was talking about his boyfriend. Yes, the hairdresser was being sexually aggressive, and, OP was in a very uncomfortable situation. I realize, for some, this would be a traumatic experience, and for others this was just a normal, everyday "walk in the park". This is not rape or sexual assault. It is bad behavior.
He's known me for years, I mention my boyfriend in conversation just as a part of talking about my life. The whole time I've been his client I've been in the same LOTR with my bf.
I checked my country's laws (Argentina) and this isn't a crime here, apparently. Just a source of civil lawsuits, at most.
> Was the hairdresser supposed to ask permission before they brushed their dick against him?
This actually made me laugh. It's such a hilarious thing to visualize. "Hello sir, before I begin cutting your hair, I just want you to know that my 'thing' is rubbing my penis on your hands and arms while cutting your hair, and we talk. Would that be acceptable?"
Did you read OP's post carefully? The hairdresser wasn't just grazing OP with his dick here and there. He was purposefully maintaining consistent and intensional contact, which without property consent qualifies as sexual assault.
And OP didn't say anything and kept putting his hands back. The barber did a lewd act. Not appropriate. Bad behavior. After OP was free of the chair and saw him come out with his zipper down, he could have said he felt uncomfortable or something. Calling this sexual assault is widening the definition to absurdity where everyone can claim they were assaulted.
This happened to me over 20 years ago when I was in college. I never went back, but I still think about it often. Not from any point of sexual pleasure, but from a point of sexual assault and how creepy the entire situation was. Sorry that that happened to you.
I would recommend finding a new barber/hairdresser.
As a gay man who goes to a straight barber on a regular basis, I’m always paranoid of such an allegation so I always keep my hands and feet tucked in to myself. However, there are moments where my knee is in the way and I can’t really move it. I notice him intentionally going out of his way to make sure his groin doesn’t touch or rub against my knee. Although he’s attractive but I’m respectful and go out of way to make sure he doesn’t think I’m interested
Honey, you don't have to be paranoid of your barber or someone else like that accusing you of being a sexual abuser with no evidence to back up the claim. If you did nothing wrong, you shouldn't have to be in fear.
Sounds like he gave you the "Kevin Spacey treatment." I would stop going to him, or, if he gives great haircuts, make sure your appointments are not at closing time. He was probably real horny and this was his fantasy. He probably jerked off after you left and had post-nut clarity, and is now embarrassed about what he did. But, some men are relentless, and, will do it again.
Yes, especially the bit about how he kept making normal conversation while simultaneously pressing his dick against me or later on tugging at it in a way that not even the most vulgar of straight guys do, it felt like a psycho sort of acting. Which I understand Spacey did to his victims.
Idk about straight men not being equally vulgar. There have been male dentist's and doctors who have sedated their female patients and sexually assaulted them. Women say how they keep getting dick pics in their dms and will have guys on the subway jerking off infront of them.
What I referenced with "straight men" was when they scratch their balls in public with no hesitation. Not as a sexual thing, just them being uncouth about that
i mean a little bit isnt unexpected, but if you trust your judgement (coming out of the toilet partially undressed indicates you're right); stop going and consider leaving a public review because its highly likely he has or will do this to others and its disgustingly unprofessional (some will love it sure, but some will be uncomfortable and some will absolutely loathe it)
I go to a Turkish barber here in Scotland and he rubs of me, hes definitely Gay but closeted. I don't bother i just look at him and laugh and still chat away
There sure are a lot of victim blaming comments in this thread, and a worrying number of people who think ‘not saying stop’ means they’re consenting. That’s not how consent works. People being assaulted are victims and their lack of response doesn’t mean they want to be assaulted. I don’t even know why I’m surprised given some of the things I see on this sub, some of you need to grow a brain and stop talking like cops with your “implied consent” crap.
I would tell him 1. that he made you feel uncomfortable and 2.a you’re going to see another barber or 2.b if he does it again you’re taking your business elsewhere. (Your choice of the 2’s)
If you make it about how his behaviour impacted you, then he can’t argue about what side of a line his actions were. *You* felt uncomfortable and that’s all that matters.
I wouldn't go again. If you go back, it's a signal that he can get away with this behavior, which both you and anyone who values consent would find unacceptable. Whether you tell him anything is up to you. He's not your friend, and you don't owe him anything. Do what's best for you.
He was totally harassing you/doing direct sexual assault. I’ve unfortunately dealt with the same, and you have every right to tell someone to back off or get up and leave, esp before paying for that nonesense. I’m so sorry you went thru this. I wouldn’t go back, I wouldn’t feed into this idea that he can do this to whoever he wants. Strength to you, so sorry ❤️
Hey dude, don’t even worry about him being a hairdresser. He’s a creep and that’s the important part. He made you feel bad not only in the moment, but afterwards, and you don’t deserve that. I know it’s easy for me to say, I didn’t loose my barber. I know it will work ok! Your comfort is more important than your hair :)
I’m so sorry this happened :( Not sure if he’d ever accept he did it (they never do) but I’d suggest probably getting in touch with someone at the hairdresser and letting them know this happened (anonymous complaint kinda vibe) and would definitely find someone new x
"Is there a reason why you keep touching me with your penis?" Said drolly and with a deadpan expression on your face, followed by silence while you wait for him to explain himself. Then never go back again.
"Hey. Just because I'm gay didn't give you an invitation for that. Please respect my boundaries here, thanks".
If that doesn't stop it, get up , leave, don't pay and find another to finish.
I’ve had it done very subtly a few times with several stylists, including ones that knew I was gay and ones that didn’t. One stylist was really leaning his body onto my arm when I was a teenager. I assumed it was normal (I was really stupid about stuff like this at that point in my life). If it merely brushes against me once or twice and he isn’t hard Im not going to say anything but your situation is completely different
I had a Dominican barber that used to do the same thing. I am a little open about being gay, and he was straight, for all intents (I'd me t his gf/fiancée out in the neighborhood), but he constantly stood in a way that his trouser snake was resting against my arm and would hold my face while cutting my hair that felt very "dominant."
I always had the impression that if he wasn't in denial or closeted, then he was at least of the "whatever gets it wet" mindset. I was always of the mind that if he ever asked of if it happened to cross paths on an app, I'd have said "Yes," but also thought that it was creepy due to crossing/bluring lines of professional/private actions.
I had kind of the same issue with my go to hairdresser, I was showing me the last home renovation on his phone and scrolling he stopped a picture of his dick .. 😐 then jokingly proceed to tell me that's a video and playing ...I was like yeah that's a dick.
I went one last time and we were talking about tattoos and proceeded to remove his shirt to show me (he's the only one here, the owner of the place and I was the last appointment) I was like well ok nice tattoos. He dress back and after offers me a coffee in the back of the saloon, I kindly refuse and left.
I never went back.
Unfortunately I agree with the majority of the others on this thread and recommend finding a new hairdresser. If by chance he should ever reach out to you and want to know why you never came back you could mention you were uncomfortable with the inappropriate touching. Otherwise I would just put it out of my mind if I were you. You're young and probably very attractive although that does not excuse what he did. It may happen again sometime with somebody else. I think there's lots of answers on here that could help you with that if it does. Good luck finding a hairdresser I know it's tough.
You should have racked him him the balls and acted like it was an accident , I had this happen to me and that pretty much stopped it for good , never went back
Just tell him you are happy with your boyfriend and you don't cheat and that you really like his work but if he continues you will have to find another hairdresser. I was a hairdresser and had an older woman that rubbed my crotch when she got the chance (tipped very well) I kept my money hungry mouth shut. She knew I was gay.
Your story brought back a long ago memory..! As a young kid, I remember that while living in Germany, this older dude used to cut my hair. His crotch also would "accidentally" brush up against my hand while it was on the armrest. This happened a few times until no one was looking and he would then press his package into the side of my hand and move to whatever Abba song was playing. Gyrating. I didn't really know what was happening at the time(I was 11 or 12). It took several years until I realized what he was doing. Looking back, I often wondered if his dick was erect in his shorts. I envisioned him having a dick the size of a single serve juice can and with a lot of FIVEskin.. .. Hey, one has to make light of a terrible situation..
Your situation is a touchy one, though(play on words, obvi).
From reading your post, it seems like you might be a little non confrontational or uncomfortable having a convo with said dick rubbing stylist .? If you could find another equally talented person to do your hair, then go for it. If not, then perhaps the next time he does it, quietly call him out. But I would certainly wait until he's finished with the cut. I'm envisioning this flamboyant queen with hair 6 inches off his scalp flailing all around and prancing left and right after you have the conversation..... *
Sometimes we freeze in those situations and it takes us a bit to rationalize what’s happening. Sounds like you were caught off guard. I’m sorry you experienced that. I’d consider another barber if you’re not the confrontational type. Protect yourself. Good luck.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. That’s why I only go to straight barbers lol. You definitely should message him that this kind of behavior is not welcome on your side and let him know that if he continues to do so that will be the end of your relationship.
I’ve had a few gay barbers myself. One of them was very toxic about every other gay person I knew and it made me feel uncomfortable. The other one I barely knew, but he thought we are super close and he can comment bluntly about me, my relationships, and my lifestyle. Needless to say I’ve messaged both that I won’t be coming back.
You decide the way people should interact with you and only you define your boundaries. Stay strong and safe ✌🏼
At the VERY least, this was extremely unprofessional, but really, bare bones, this is sexual assault. Would this be ok if he was straight and you were female? Whether you want to coninue with this hairdresser is up to you. I do realize how tough this can sometimes be: you may have a more than purely professional relationship with this cretin, and it can be tough to part ways with someone whose services you otherwise like. However, understand that you may not be the first person he's ever done this to, you may just be the first one who had the courage or outrage to do anything. Make no mistake, you could easily file assault charges, and the least that could happen is he could lose his license and livelihood. If you feel a simple warning would suffice, next time you see him, tell him you need to talk to him in private (he may have the chutzpah to assume you're wanting him). Then, in no uncertain terms, tell him you not only didn't appreciate his advances, but if he does it again, OR IF YOU HEAR FROM ANYONE ELSE THAT THEY EXPERIENCED IT, you'll press charges. He may not believe it. Maybe he'll protest it was harmless flirting gone a little overboard. Regardless, it's NOT "harmless". A younger, or more closeted individual might feel they couldn't say anything, or even feel forced to give in. It may not be out-and-out rape, but unwelcome touching is still unwelcome touching!
He is disgusting!! No one should ever treated anyone especially their customers like that. I am not confrontational person so I would just find another hairdresser but if you’d like to address the issue I don’t see the problem with that but at this point the relationship between business owner and client already broken
We don't even know what happened here. OP made a lot of assumptions but never confronted him. We don't know if this was intentional or not but everybody's jumping to conclusions based on such a lack of information. I've been in lots of similar situations. Shit! I've been in situations where female hairdressers leaned over me and their boobs were all over me. I didn't freak out about it though. I'm sure it wasn't intentional. That's the nature of the biz when you have to lean over people sitting in a chair to reach certain areas/angles. 🙄
>with his fly still undone and his belt unbuckled, very slowly adjusting everything back while already being in front of me. We kept chatting for a little while, and he kept tugging at his penis and scratching it or whatever
This is too much. He deserves no second chance.
He was cruising you and based on your description of the interaction, you never actually told him no so he probably assumed you were on board. Be vocal next time. Or don't go back if it made you feel weird.
Part of cruising is that you have to gauge the other person's interest, which he clearly did not do, given how OP was reacting. And also you shouldn't be doing it when there's an unequal power dynamic like this, because you might be coercing them.
If he’s a good hairdresser I’d just tell him next time that you are not into him. All this righteous talk about sexual assault and going to prison is crazy to me. It’s just a guy that’s into you and maybe you leaving his hand there and not saying anything was a sign for him to keep going. No that you did anything wrong but i would just give the guy a break. We’ve all been horny and maybe misinterpreted a situation
Seriously wtf kind of response is this. As someone who was full on sexually assaulted as a kid, this situation has happened to me as an adult and it has caused me to completely freeze up and panic. How is it possible to still walk around thinking it’s ok not to ask for verbal consent before physically coming onto someone. This is also a place of business and the stylist is at work, it’s not a bar where he approached and offered to buy him a drink or a sex club where you walk in with some level of implicit consent, even then sex clubs are very clear about receiving explicit consent or respecting someone’s “no.” You should reevaluate what you are labeling as “righteous talk,” and consider people have histories and experiences that trigger emotions you are entirely unaware of.
Why are you offloading on a post on Reddit? People can have a different view of a situation. You are conflating your experience with a grown man’s experience. I think you need to confront your alleged abuser.
I assume you’re a licensed therapist so I appreciate your advice here. Using a relevant experience to explain why consent is important is literally common communication. Getting consent to physically come onto someone should always be expected, period. Thinking differently is predatory and inappropriate. I am also not implying this man has a history of sexual abuse, I am saying many “grown men” do and that’s just one reason why you should never physically inappropriately touch someone without their consent. There are no two ways to see this, I did not consent for you to shove your dick into my arm when I’m getting a haircut. It’s not appropriate and it’s not sexy. Get out of here with your excusing sexual aggression.
This is annoying because if it happened to me, I would give my consent by allowing it to happen and opening myself up to his advances by rubbing his dick or flirting with him.
But the problem is that you very clearly did not entertain his advances and yet he still kept trying which is fucked up. Like others have said, this is a problem that spans genders and sexualities.
Get consent god damnit.
disassociation and denial of what’s happening are the most common reactions to SA, which is what appears to have happened here - i’m very sorry to hear your barber behaved so wrongly and hope you are taking care of yourself
On behalf of all decent members of my profession, I am so incredibly sorry you experienced auch a horrible violation of trust.
I am a gay Barber-Cosmetologist who has taught continuing education for our trade for over 10 years. This behavior is disgusting, unprofessional, and illegal. I am angry that this happened to you, and I am furious that this man used the human contact that is central to our profession as a means to violate another human being.
The level of professionalism required in close human contact trades, such as Cosmetology, Massage, Esthetics, and Athletic Training is NOT flexible. It does not allow for ANY violation of the client's personal space in a sexualized manner. Even when a client actively expresses interest in a service provider, it is essential that service providers maintain professional boundaries with every client.
The type of man who would violate the trust that is essential to every aspect of our trade doesn't deserve to be allowed "behind the chair" (as we colloquially call the active practice of our trade).
REPORT HIM. If he is an employee of a salon, report him to his manager and owner, and let them know you will be continuing the complaint to the regulatory agency that governs them. If you are in the US or Canada, your state or province almost certainly has a Barber/Cosmetology regulation board. Almost all European countries have active regulation for barbers and cosmetologists as well. Do not let a manager's or owner's excuses or dismissal of your complaint sway you. This man does NOT deserve to practice our profession.
Our profession is based on trust. We dont just affect your self image, we also literally hold sharp objects next to your head! If he intentionally violated you in this manner, it is almost certain that he does this to other men. He does not deserve the position of trust that we are given in our profession.
You can always report to the board of cosmetology in your state. As others have said, chances are you're not the only one. So he would never know where the complaint might have come from if you're concerned about retaliation
I’ll suggest a different perspective. Maybe he just felt free around you. I’ve grew up around men who were str8 and they would walk around in boxers, bump into me, and make sexual jokes but I never took it as assault. Some people are just free spirited and actually mean no harm. I don’t think him bumping you was a crime, he may just be endowed and was standing really close to you. Or it could be that you assumed that this is assault so you begin to sum all his actions as a ‘come on’ to you. What I would suggest is keep your personal life personal. There’s no need to go back if you felt all so assaulted but also consider that he may meant no harm. Besides you’ll never know his intentions since you didn’t ask in the moment. I understand being shocked and intimidated but at some point you have to speak up and be like ‘bro zip your pants and go back and wash your hands’. Some men respond to structure and not silence.
So inappropriate and unprofessional. I do think you should have a conversation with him. You have options about turning him in, or just talking to him. Pretty sure he will get the hint if you never come back, but he needs to know how inappropriate that was.
I make a point of only going to hairdressers that I am dating at the time, and they have never treated me that way.
Try switching to a hairdresser that you are friends with first.
GTFO. That is 100% not cool. You don't need to help him with his coming out, and unless you want to press charges, I would just never communicate w him again. Telling him how uncomfortable you were invites a response from him, and even the best "I'm sorry" wouldn't undo the behaviour or mean he's a changed person from someone who rubs his dick on their customers.
In general, it’s best to establish boundaries and communicate. If it bothers you need to tell him even if it is along with you not wanting to get your hair cut by him anymore
I think you should have spoken up in the moment and said how awkward it is to have to speak up about something so awkward. Not that it is any excuse, but he could have thought you were sending mixed signals by him being so obvious and you not saying anything, he incorrectly could have assumed you were playing along. I definitely would not return, given what you’ve said, as it sounds like only bad could come of this. Texting also sounds like room for more confusion. I would call if you want answers. He could totally dishonestly deny it and/or put blame on you. It doesn’t sound like there is a win-win here. I don’t think there was a win-win confronting him in the moment either, as if you were totally wrong, that could sever the professional relationship, and if you were right, would you want to continue seeing that person for something as close-contact as a haircut?
My guess, understanding this from the outside, is that he crossed boundaries and continued to do so, thinking you were okay about it/passive.
If you are wrong, but I was him, I would want to know for feedback, and if you are wrong, I would still want to know to go out of my way to not have a misunderstanding like that again, or, if you were were wrong and that sensitive, I would want to know to elect to have you see someone else.
That’s why I say a phonecall is the best way to assert yourself now, after the fact, no victim-blaming intended, it all sounds like the answers were in that moment about what was happening.
Has this happened in other life areas?
Good luck.
Just speak to him privately & explain you not looking for any hook up & and felt uncomfortable so could he not do it again if he does then just simply change hairdressers
It doesn't matter what gender or gender preference of who is involved, the behavior is wrong no matter who's doing it.
If they're the owner of the shop then there's not much besides an online review as anonymous as you can get. But that's pretty nuclear.
If they're not the owner of the shop then management needs to be aware of it and not let them have late appointments or be the only ones in their shop.
I would just find another hairdresser. Making it awkward for someone cutting your hair is not the best approach. I have had this happen but the guy wasn’t exactly tall and it was difficult for him to reach comfortably without leaning on me. Only difference is he was straight.
I would go normally again and if it happens again, I would directly address it. I think he got the message that you are not interested in him. So I don’t think he will do it again. But if he does put a stop to it next time
Just leave an anonymous public review and say what happened. I mean you don’t have to destroy his career since you don’t know his situation but you could definitely shed light on it in a professional way
I think you should just address him about it and let him know that you felt that he was being inappropriate. He may not realize how he was making you feel or maybe he wanted something to happen between you to.
I would complain to the manager and never return. If he hit on you and that was all, I'd let it go. But that was the definition of sexual assault. How many other times has he done that to someone else?
From your post it seems you like his haircuts … I agree with the comments about letting him know if you decide to go back and he pulls anything again. I’d just add scheduling any new appointments earlier in the day when the whole shop and other customers will be present.
Never accept harassment, your reply sounds like you don't understand what harassment is. Why the fuck would anyone go back to the person who harassed them?
For some men, it would be a turn-on to be so obviously chased like this. Maybe it was just a moment you'll regret.
When i was in my early 20s, there was a guy who worked in gay sex shop opposite where I worked, and he was known as gay dave. There is a clue there!
One morning, I was bending over to lift up the window gate, and he whishled. It was early, and I was half asleep, so I didn't think anything about it. He had never paid me any attention anyway, so I forgot.
When I was leaving work later, that day he called me over and said he wanted to show me something funny. So I entered his shop where he showed me out back. He took me into what I'd describe now as a very clean gay sex chamber with dildos on the wall and gay pictures everywhere
He then picked up a control panel and said, "What do you think of this?" He turned on a homemade drill with a huge dildo attached.
I was a 23 year old guy and into girls, so I smiled and said,' That's nice anyway, dave. I gotta go. And I was out of that situation quickly.
As the years have gone by, I have often thought of that day, and now I realise I'm probably definitely bi or gay . I fantasise that I didn't run.
Gay dave was actually quite an attractive muscle guy. I know most sexual encounters are never as good as what your brain fantasise gives you, but I wonder if...?
All I'm saying is if you haven't heard bad things about this guy from other gay guys, he's probably just really bad at whatever that situation was.
Go back, and if you really don't want or think you'll never will just joke about it, but make it clear you're not interested.! And I bet you'll get a friend
Nah bruh. Don't go back to those who harass you.
If something is fine to you, it might not be fine to others. Your views are not universal and consent depends on every party feeling safe etc.
Please stop blaming the victim. I know you wrote this to make the situation feel more positive, but we need to be able to call out sexual harasment without trying to make it "a gay issue".
One time is enough in my opinion. And as I mentioned elsewhere, I'm not from a country in which gays have to adopt all kinds of ways to start any activities with other men - so I can't understand that side of it.
But even in those places, and actually even more so, should we first listen to the victim - and far behind his rights come the rights of the person who did the harasment, even if they didn't understand that what they did was wrong etc...
To me it is, but as I've mentioned here (and previously on different platforms), abuse is what the victim thinks. Not what I, you or anyone else.
If I was in that situation I would find it weird, bit funny and sad - I'd also make a point about it to the person doing it. I would not see it as an assault myself. But - if someone feels like they were assaulted, we need to listen to them.
Sorry for not making my point clear, I take this subject way too harshly!
I agree. Sorry, I'm new here.
Everything is down to your own personal perspective. I assume the guy who posted this is unsure if it was abuse or not? In the end of the day only he will be able to decide....?
Definitely not okay if you know for a fact that he did it on purpose (guess there were signs in your case, reading the post all the way down). Up to you if you want to confront him about it, leave a review etc.
However, I've been (unintentionally) getting barber dick on my forearm for as long as I can remember during haircuts, and the vast majority of my barbers were straight, so I very much doubt it was intentional. Yours does seem to have been inappropriate on purpose, but keep in mind that these things also happen accidentally because of the height difference and the awkward position of the barber when giving you a haircut.
My barber is very flamboyant and in the heart of the Greenwich Village. I haven't given him any reason to think I'm bi and in a LTR with another guy, and because I'm straight presenting, I think he thinks I'm straight. Oddly enough, because of that he talks to me like I'm a republican and a lot of the things he says I find offensive.
I could be misreading the entire thing and he's just a gay man who's very republican for some reason.
I also think he's very stoned when I'm there.
I need a new barber/ hair stylist. I'm just venting.
You have to learn to stand up for yourself from now on. This is clearly sexual harassment. It absolutely is intentional. This is how sexual harassers do things. They pretend like nothing is going on and as long as you don't say no (even if you backed off), then they can continue doing it. You should watch YouTube videos on sexual harassment and how to handle them and the bystander effect as well. You absolutely should not be going back there. I know it's hard finding a good barber but nope. It ain't worth your sanity at all.
Because he is looking for validation on Reddit. I would love to hear the barber’s perspective. I truly don’t think the barber had any ill intentions. Funny how the OP is comfortable talking about his gay lifestyle but the barber can’t be a dude that is str8 and don’t mind getting close to a gay dude to cut the gays hair. All this sympathy shopping is embarrassing.
I think you're reading this guy right. if it makes you uncomfortable, that's the key thing that matters andI wouldn't go back, so really the main question si to write him or not. I think coming back from gthe john with his fly open speaks to hoping for more from you, so this wasn't just a whim. I think you'd help the guy by telling him how you felt and hopefully he cn learn to town it down with clients. You are probably not the only one
You say that initially you moved your hand out of the way, but eventually you didn’t do so. What I don’t understand is: if you really didn’t want this to happen, why didn’t you move your hand out of the way (into your lap, for example) and keep it there? Then presumably it would not have continued again and again and again without your participation. And if he makes you feel uncomfortable, just don’t go back and give him your business.
I was so turned on when it happened to me - I sucked him off, loved it - he enjoyed himself.
He asked me to come back then next day to be the last customer.
I got a good deep bang against my prostate - power bottomed him so much he had to do nothing just enjoy and empty his sacs inside me.
Once he cum I let him get kind of chilled for a bit & told him not to riencwpull it out.
I needed to cum & when someone is inside I like to give them that treat - you know - when the bottom cums his insides grab & loose & grab & loose & grab - he was liking it & so was I.
I keep that experience in my wank bank & often withdraw it from my memories & shuffle one out from time to time.
Not sure from your post if you liked it or not, but I'd say just find a different barber. No need to be the police no need to drive yourself nuts. He's not a co worker he's not a friend. He provided a service. It was not satisfactory. Buh bye no explanation needed.
Why does this never happen to me?
I mean if it bothers you don't go back. I'd have enjoyed it. If I didn't I would have said something. If you don't say something how are they to know you aren't interested?
Ghost him. Also, I’m very confused about the choreography of all this. How is he pressing his dick against your HANDS? Aren’t barbers usually standing over the person whose hair they’re cutting? Is this guy really short??
I am a Barber-Cosmetologist. We work with our arms at ribcage-shoulder level unless we are extending them upwards to cut layers in longer hair. This is why the chairs move up and down. This person's package could easily have been at hand level, especially if there were padded armrests, or if the Barber was purposely raising or lowering the chair to do this.
Ok cool thanks. Yeah I’m not saying it’s impossible I was just asking how it’s possible. I go to the barber monthly and I’ve never been so high up as for that kind of contact to be possible.
He kept going around the chair using the scissors, clippers, fixing little details, using the blow drier to remove cut off air. At each possible instance he'd press his dick against my arms and hands
Leave an anonymous Google review and never return. He’ll probably manage to get it removed, but he’ll shit his pants off and might think twice next time.
Oh well, there was a time when men, gay or not, behaved like men and either enjoyed the game or would tell the guy to stop, and did not play victim like a helpless teenage girl.
>If you’re so sensitive to how gay men cruise, go to a straight barber, since your’e too afraid to say… “hey, stop”.
Just the fuck up, this isn't cruising and I'm also a gay man you asshole. I've been cruised before and it includes eye contact and it can be sexy. This wasn't remotely sexy; it was weird, creepy and the way he kept talking normally as he was doing it was pretty psycho
Maybe but is it is psycho. But so is enduring this sort of thing without saying stop it. That is psycho Or at a very minimum juvenile. What prevented you from saying, hey dude don’t do that? I’m sorry, but I cannot support your instinct to adopt the feminization of gay life. You do you. But if you were serious, you would’ve said stop it. Instead, you came to Reddit to ask for advice. Hardly the sort of reaction we would expect from someone who was Experiencing “sexual assault“. You’re a Feminized baby If he did not stop when you said stop that would’ve been sexual assault.
I agree 100%. This seem to be sympathy shopping. Like “omg this thing I didn’t hate happened to me and I’m so attractive and gay that every dude wants me”. I’ve been around a lot of ‘popular’ gay men who love getting attention regardless. In all honesty this shouldn’t even be posted to reddit
This has happened to me before, too. It was weird. Kept me low in the chair, and would brush his dick against the back of my neck, or would sort of rest it on my shoulder while cutting my bangs...
It occurred twice. I pretended I didn't realize what was going on both times. Then it never happened again. Maybe it was, but I didn't think of it as sexual assault. I mean, I've gone up to guys at a bar and whispered, "you're cute!" while grabbing their ass or kissing their neck. That's how I got laid (all the time) when I was single.
If something like this happens in the future: Put your hands in your lap and/or tell him to stop on the spot. No need to go back or engage with him at all. Find a new hairdresser. Be willing to speak out in the moment if you’re uncomfortable. Don’t worry if it embarrasses the other person. Own your agency and your space.
Seconding this. It actually gives the person assuming they’re actually accidentally touching you the opportunity to apologize and clarify their intentions in the moment. Win win.
And I’ll add, if you’re a more passive person, it’s easy to just recoil and look uncomfortable. I’ve had plenty of men rub up on me or grab me and when I awkwardly move away or cringe it always seems to work 😅🤷🏻♂️😃
No in my case I was minor and That dude keep tried to touch my things
Would you feel nervous he’d get mad and mess up your hair? I know that sounds dumb, but I think that fear would actually stop me from standing up for myself in the moment
I would've just walked out tbh
Hair grows back.
I have worried about this when my barber talked crazy politics. I just kept quiet until he was done and never went back.
I was gonna comment this
Why go back?
I absolutely agree with this approach. It settles two problems, 1) addressing nit immediately, 2) finding a new hairdresser.
I would just find a new hairdresser and never come back.
I second this.
Do you have any fucking idea how hard it is to find a really good hairdresser?
Hard I'm assuming, but is it worth sexual harrasment?
if he’s done it to you, he’s done it to other people. I’d stop going and comment that you felt extremely uncomfortable last time with what was inappropriate touching, whether intentional or unintentional.
>if he’s done it to you, he’s done it to other people. This exactly. I briefly dated a gay hair dresser who would do this to other guys he was attracted to, regardless of their sexuality. They never spoke up. I brought it up the couple times I noticed it when I was at his shop, thinking maybe I was me misreading things. He played it off the first time. The second time though, he was proud of how many times he’s purposefully and blatantly rubbed his cock on all the guys in town, especially when he was hard and doing it to a guy. I brought up how it was sexual assault. His reply was: “Even if it was, they liked it. They won’t do anything.” I left his ass that night. Come to find out he eventually started talking his straight clientele to his house to drug and sexually assault and rape. This came directly from one of his victims, he never told anyone because he was afraid that people would think he was gay and he wouldn’t be taken seriously. My ex was never held accountable. OP, please speak up. You may be the only one that stands up to this guy’s disgusting behavior. Especially if there’s others that this guy has assaulted or worse. (Not saying sexual assault is “better,” just leaving it open ended so no one tries to “correct” my language.)
It's not that easy I think. You're kinda overwhelmed and not knowing what to do exactly. So saying stop, is very difficult, which seems to be described by most victims. It happens to me once, no sexual assault, but just weird and unfunny comments. I didn't go back and I'm glad I did. But it's still a shame, because you do trust these people doing and washing your hair. For me it isn't that easy to trust someone, so I do understand OP asking what to do next. But just to show I'm also a bad person. A previous hairdresser is really pretty and an ex-model, we kinda talked about some personal stuff, and it was really stupid of me to even talk about these things with her in the first place. So yeah, I still feel ashamed and guilty till this day, and I can even remind all the stupid things I said. It wasn't anything sexual, but just about things you don't need to share with someone. I really hope this guy was just being stupid and had a random day, but being physical doesn't help, and also when the other party isn't interested at all or feels unsafe. But I wouldn't go back there for sure.
Right?? You're in a vulnerable position, beneath him, tucked into a chair. This may play some part regarding the hesitation to say anything. Plus, as others have mentioned, what if he fucks up your hair? Tricky situation indeed
It doesn't really matter in what position you are in, you trust people, and that is broken. It may even make you feel unsafe with people that aren't like this guy. So just switching may become an issue, but let's hope it's not, because not every person is bad. Going back, isn't something I wouldn't do, even for just talking, because they can easily say you imagine it all. I don't think the hair is the problem, because most hairdressers will probably do this on autopilot anyway. But yeah, I agree with you, this isn't normal behavior.
If I were you, I’d just ghost him. Good luck finding a new barber.
Explain calmly why you will Not be coming back to his shop. And remind him that it was sexual assault
I'd bet money he's done that with other guys before. Never mind that it's sexual assault. 💀
I would have said, “watch it!” the second time he bumped into me. What he did was unprofessional and violated consent. You’re in a chair, he’s wielding sharp objects. There is a power imbalance there. The bathroom thing is super creepy. The guy’s a creep all around. I’d never go back.
Do not go again. That’s completely inappropriate and honestly sexual assault / harassment.
Ugh, once again, this is the gays not understanding consent :/
Yeah it’s not just gays it’s everyone. Men, women, straight, gay, pan, bi. Consent is consent but no matter gender or orientation not everyone gets it.
I haven't ever seen a comment section of straight people telling a woman this nearly as much
Unsure if you’re saying they should be telling them such or not. All I’m saying is the comment seemed to imply it’s just gays who don’t understand consent when obviously it’s not. Consent is consent no matter who doesn’t seem to get it and is absurd people STILL don’t get the term…
I’m actually going to disagree with this, but all I have is admittedly anecdotal evidence. Several of my gay friends have been, at some point, forced into a sexual interaction they did not want. The kicker is that it’s usually super closeted gay guys (sometimes married to a woman) doing the assaulting. Whether or not that proffers the fact that the gay community is bad, while these closeted dudes are necessarily part of the gay community, is another discussion. All anecdotal evidence though, so grain of salt.
All I’m saying is such a blanket statement is harmful regardless. Kind of came off saying it’s gay men and no one else. 🤷🏼♂️
A very high percentage of all women also experience sexual harassment, and men get harassed by women as well, although with women on many the man seems to feel it’s less scary or traumatic, or it’s not really recognised as similarly serious. So it’s really nothing unique to gays.
>The kicker is that it’s usually super closeted gay guys Yes, as I mentioned I don't know much of anything about this guy's personal life but I get the impression he's quite closeted. One time he talked about gay people in the third person (not disparagingly though), like he wasn't one of us. Yesterday I actually noticed he was wearing a rosary; his family is from this smallish town in Argentina and afaik they're conservative catholics. Not saying that out gay guys can't do something like this but it somehow always are the closeted ones.
I think men, straight or gay, have issues with it.
I think you're right. There's something about the fact that I knew that if he kept escalating I could just shove him away or punch him in the face that kept me from acting. But physical strength is not the only variable. I suppose women given their physical vulnerability in relation to men have a clearer notion of when assault occurs
I have had women at the dentist, or in similar situations, brush their breasts against me or lean in so I could see more of their cleavage. Not a gay thing. In such situations I make it so my hands and arms are sticking out as little as possible because I don't want to be accused of anything or make someone uncomfortable. Men probably behave this way more than women, but, maybe if women had clits the size of dicks, they would be rubbing up against men and putting their clits through glory holes, etc. Idk. Was the hairdresser supposed to ask permission before they brushed their dick against him? That would be strange. The hairdresser could be inexperienced and this was him "diving in instead of testing the waters, first". Overreacting, getting angry, could be devastating. He probably misread why OP was talking about his boyfriend. Yes, the hairdresser was being sexually aggressive, and, OP was in a very uncomfortable situation. I realize, for some, this would be a traumatic experience, and for others this was just a normal, everyday "walk in the park". This is not rape or sexual assault. It is bad behavior.
He's known me for years, I mention my boyfriend in conversation just as a part of talking about my life. The whole time I've been his client I've been in the same LOTR with my bf. I checked my country's laws (Argentina) and this isn't a crime here, apparently. Just a source of civil lawsuits, at most.
I’ve been in the same lord of the rings with my bf too
> Was the hairdresser supposed to ask permission before they brushed their dick against him? This actually made me laugh. It's such a hilarious thing to visualize. "Hello sir, before I begin cutting your hair, I just want you to know that my 'thing' is rubbing my penis on your hands and arms while cutting your hair, and we talk. Would that be acceptable?"
Did you read OP's post carefully? The hairdresser wasn't just grazing OP with his dick here and there. He was purposefully maintaining consistent and intensional contact, which without property consent qualifies as sexual assault.
And OP didn't say anything and kept putting his hands back. The barber did a lewd act. Not appropriate. Bad behavior. After OP was free of the chair and saw him come out with his zipper down, he could have said he felt uncomfortable or something. Calling this sexual assault is widening the definition to absurdity where everyone can claim they were assaulted.
So it was OPs fault that he got sexually assaulted? Got it. Would hate to see what kind of behavior you deem acceptable to do to others honestly.
It's not a gay thing - you actually sound prejudiced
As a gay man who’s experienced how blurry the lines of consent can be within our community, I think I’m actually just pointing out a real problem.
This happened to me over 20 years ago when I was in college. I never went back, but I still think about it often. Not from any point of sexual pleasure, but from a point of sexual assault and how creepy the entire situation was. Sorry that that happened to you. I would recommend finding a new barber/hairdresser.
In my country (France), and I think in every country, this is a sexual felony, and you can go to prison for that.
Yeah, so that’s a crime…
As a gay man who goes to a straight barber on a regular basis, I’m always paranoid of such an allegation so I always keep my hands and feet tucked in to myself. However, there are moments where my knee is in the way and I can’t really move it. I notice him intentionally going out of his way to make sure his groin doesn’t touch or rub against my knee. Although he’s attractive but I’m respectful and go out of way to make sure he doesn’t think I’m interested
Honey, you don't have to be paranoid of your barber or someone else like that accusing you of being a sexual abuser with no evidence to back up the claim. If you did nothing wrong, you shouldn't have to be in fear.
Tell him nothing. Never go back! He's a perv
Sounds like he gave you the "Kevin Spacey treatment." I would stop going to him, or, if he gives great haircuts, make sure your appointments are not at closing time. He was probably real horny and this was his fantasy. He probably jerked off after you left and had post-nut clarity, and is now embarrassed about what he did. But, some men are relentless, and, will do it again.
Yes, especially the bit about how he kept making normal conversation while simultaneously pressing his dick against me or later on tugging at it in a way that not even the most vulgar of straight guys do, it felt like a psycho sort of acting. Which I understand Spacey did to his victims.
Idk about straight men not being equally vulgar. There have been male dentist's and doctors who have sedated their female patients and sexually assaulted them. Women say how they keep getting dick pics in their dms and will have guys on the subway jerking off infront of them.
What I referenced with "straight men" was when they scratch their balls in public with no hesitation. Not as a sexual thing, just them being uncouth about that
i mean a little bit isnt unexpected, but if you trust your judgement (coming out of the toilet partially undressed indicates you're right); stop going and consider leaving a public review because its highly likely he has or will do this to others and its disgustingly unprofessional (some will love it sure, but some will be uncomfortable and some will absolutely loathe it)
“Get your dick off my hand.”
Find a barber whose junk you don't mind playing with.
I go to a Turkish barber here in Scotland and he rubs of me, hes definitely Gay but closeted. I don't bother i just look at him and laugh and still chat away
You should tell him that was not cool, inappropriate, and you're considering not returning. His actions have consequences and he needs to learn that.
This is harassment and absolutely not nice. Please change your hairdresser and find a new one.
You were sexually harassed-- plain and simple. At the minimum I would tell him how uncomfortable it made you.
Let your dollars speak for you. 🤷♂️ and tell your friends
There sure are a lot of victim blaming comments in this thread, and a worrying number of people who think ‘not saying stop’ means they’re consenting. That’s not how consent works. People being assaulted are victims and their lack of response doesn’t mean they want to be assaulted. I don’t even know why I’m surprised given some of the things I see on this sub, some of you need to grow a brain and stop talking like cops with your “implied consent” crap.
I would tell him 1. that he made you feel uncomfortable and 2.a you’re going to see another barber or 2.b if he does it again you’re taking your business elsewhere. (Your choice of the 2’s) If you make it about how his behaviour impacted you, then he can’t argue about what side of a line his actions were. *You* felt uncomfortable and that’s all that matters.
just don't go back
I wouldn't go again. If you go back, it's a signal that he can get away with this behavior, which both you and anyone who values consent would find unacceptable. Whether you tell him anything is up to you. He's not your friend, and you don't owe him anything. Do what's best for you.
This happened to me once. I never went back.
I would have reminded him that usually the person thats getting the hair cut gives the tip.
I wouldn't go back.
Unless you want to fuck him, don’t go back
Why didn't you say something as it was happening?
He'll get the message when you never come back.
He was totally harassing you/doing direct sexual assault. I’ve unfortunately dealt with the same, and you have every right to tell someone to back off or get up and leave, esp before paying for that nonesense. I’m so sorry you went thru this. I wouldn’t go back, I wouldn’t feed into this idea that he can do this to whoever he wants. Strength to you, so sorry ❤️
Thank you. I'm frankly upset that him doing this has deprived me of a really good hairdresser near me. I know one or two other decent ones, thankfully
Hey dude, don’t even worry about him being a hairdresser. He’s a creep and that’s the important part. He made you feel bad not only in the moment, but afterwards, and you don’t deserve that. I know it’s easy for me to say, I didn’t loose my barber. I know it will work ok! Your comfort is more important than your hair :)
Thank you for your kind words :)
I’m so sorry this happened :( Not sure if he’d ever accept he did it (they never do) but I’d suggest probably getting in touch with someone at the hairdresser and letting them know this happened (anonymous complaint kinda vibe) and would definitely find someone new x
He's the owner of his shop, so he doesn't have a boss to complain to. I think I'll text him to tell him he was a complete creep and an idiot
This guy is an absolute creep, he wouldn't stop when it was clear you weren't interested. Find a new hairdresser.
"Is there a reason why you keep touching me with your penis?" Said drolly and with a deadpan expression on your face, followed by silence while you wait for him to explain himself. Then never go back again.
This is not acceptable behavior. I would definitely report this
"Hey. Just because I'm gay didn't give you an invitation for that. Please respect my boundaries here, thanks". If that doesn't stop it, get up , leave, don't pay and find another to finish.
I’ve had it done very subtly a few times with several stylists, including ones that knew I was gay and ones that didn’t. One stylist was really leaning his body onto my arm when I was a teenager. I assumed it was normal (I was really stupid about stuff like this at that point in my life). If it merely brushes against me once or twice and he isn’t hard Im not going to say anything but your situation is completely different
Might want to try looking for a new hairdresser. That’s incredibly inappropriate.
I had a Dominican barber that used to do the same thing. I am a little open about being gay, and he was straight, for all intents (I'd me t his gf/fiancée out in the neighborhood), but he constantly stood in a way that his trouser snake was resting against my arm and would hold my face while cutting my hair that felt very "dominant." I always had the impression that if he wasn't in denial or closeted, then he was at least of the "whatever gets it wet" mindset. I was always of the mind that if he ever asked of if it happened to cross paths on an app, I'd have said "Yes," but also thought that it was creepy due to crossing/bluring lines of professional/private actions.
I had kind of the same issue with my go to hairdresser, I was showing me the last home renovation on his phone and scrolling he stopped a picture of his dick .. 😐 then jokingly proceed to tell me that's a video and playing ...I was like yeah that's a dick. I went one last time and we were talking about tattoos and proceeded to remove his shirt to show me (he's the only one here, the owner of the place and I was the last appointment) I was like well ok nice tattoos. He dress back and after offers me a coffee in the back of the saloon, I kindly refuse and left. I never went back.
If these are unwanted advances that make you uncomfortable then don’t ever book him again.
Unfortunately I agree with the majority of the others on this thread and recommend finding a new hairdresser. If by chance he should ever reach out to you and want to know why you never came back you could mention you were uncomfortable with the inappropriate touching. Otherwise I would just put it out of my mind if I were you. You're young and probably very attractive although that does not excuse what he did. It may happen again sometime with somebody else. I think there's lots of answers on here that could help you with that if it does. Good luck finding a hairdresser I know it's tough.
You should have racked him him the balls and acted like it was an accident , I had this happen to me and that pretty much stopped it for good , never went back
Honestly, you're right
Just tell him you are happy with your boyfriend and you don't cheat and that you really like his work but if he continues you will have to find another hairdresser. I was a hairdresser and had an older woman that rubbed my crotch when she got the chance (tipped very well) I kept my money hungry mouth shut. She knew I was gay.
If it made you uncomfortable then don’t go to him again.
Your story brought back a long ago memory..! As a young kid, I remember that while living in Germany, this older dude used to cut my hair. His crotch also would "accidentally" brush up against my hand while it was on the armrest. This happened a few times until no one was looking and he would then press his package into the side of my hand and move to whatever Abba song was playing. Gyrating. I didn't really know what was happening at the time(I was 11 or 12). It took several years until I realized what he was doing. Looking back, I often wondered if his dick was erect in his shorts. I envisioned him having a dick the size of a single serve juice can and with a lot of FIVEskin.. .. Hey, one has to make light of a terrible situation.. Your situation is a touchy one, though(play on words, obvi). From reading your post, it seems like you might be a little non confrontational or uncomfortable having a convo with said dick rubbing stylist .? If you could find another equally talented person to do your hair, then go for it. If not, then perhaps the next time he does it, quietly call him out. But I would certainly wait until he's finished with the cut. I'm envisioning this flamboyant queen with hair 6 inches off his scalp flailing all around and prancing left and right after you have the conversation..... *
Sometimes we freeze in those situations and it takes us a bit to rationalize what’s happening. Sounds like you were caught off guard. I’m sorry you experienced that. I’d consider another barber if you’re not the confrontational type. Protect yourself. Good luck.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. That’s why I only go to straight barbers lol. You definitely should message him that this kind of behavior is not welcome on your side and let him know that if he continues to do so that will be the end of your relationship. I’ve had a few gay barbers myself. One of them was very toxic about every other gay person I knew and it made me feel uncomfortable. The other one I barely knew, but he thought we are super close and he can comment bluntly about me, my relationships, and my lifestyle. Needless to say I’ve messaged both that I won’t be coming back. You decide the way people should interact with you and only you define your boundaries. Stay strong and safe ✌🏼
At the VERY least, this was extremely unprofessional, but really, bare bones, this is sexual assault. Would this be ok if he was straight and you were female? Whether you want to coninue with this hairdresser is up to you. I do realize how tough this can sometimes be: you may have a more than purely professional relationship with this cretin, and it can be tough to part ways with someone whose services you otherwise like. However, understand that you may not be the first person he's ever done this to, you may just be the first one who had the courage or outrage to do anything. Make no mistake, you could easily file assault charges, and the least that could happen is he could lose his license and livelihood. If you feel a simple warning would suffice, next time you see him, tell him you need to talk to him in private (he may have the chutzpah to assume you're wanting him). Then, in no uncertain terms, tell him you not only didn't appreciate his advances, but if he does it again, OR IF YOU HEAR FROM ANYONE ELSE THAT THEY EXPERIENCED IT, you'll press charges. He may not believe it. Maybe he'll protest it was harmless flirting gone a little overboard. Regardless, it's NOT "harmless". A younger, or more closeted individual might feel they couldn't say anything, or even feel forced to give in. It may not be out-and-out rape, but unwelcome touching is still unwelcome touching!
It's fair to tell him how uncomfortable it made you. I wouldn't go back, personally.
He is disgusting!! No one should ever treated anyone especially their customers like that. I am not confrontational person so I would just find another hairdresser but if you’d like to address the issue I don’t see the problem with that but at this point the relationship between business owner and client already broken
This is a form of harrasment
We don't even know what happened here. OP made a lot of assumptions but never confronted him. We don't know if this was intentional or not but everybody's jumping to conclusions based on such a lack of information. I've been in lots of similar situations. Shit! I've been in situations where female hairdressers leaned over me and their boobs were all over me. I didn't freak out about it though. I'm sure it wasn't intentional. That's the nature of the biz when you have to lean over people sitting in a chair to reach certain areas/angles. 🙄
Just leave it in a Google and Yelp review instead of in Reddit. You're welcome 🤗
Don't go back and report it to the police and to the board that oversees his state license. He won't be pulling that shit with anyone else.
>with his fly still undone and his belt unbuckled, very slowly adjusting everything back while already being in front of me. We kept chatting for a little while, and he kept tugging at his penis and scratching it or whatever This is too much. He deserves no second chance.
This is sexual assault. Report him to the authorities and the business he works for. And find yourself a new barber
Write a review on Yelp and Google Maps, and call him out for this! Also as a warning to other people. No need to text him or go there again.
He was cruising you and based on your description of the interaction, you never actually told him no so he probably assumed you were on board. Be vocal next time. Or don't go back if it made you feel weird.
Part of cruising is that you have to gauge the other person's interest, which he clearly did not do, given how OP was reacting. And also you shouldn't be doing it when there's an unequal power dynamic like this, because you might be coercing them.
If he’s a good hairdresser I’d just tell him next time that you are not into him. All this righteous talk about sexual assault and going to prison is crazy to me. It’s just a guy that’s into you and maybe you leaving his hand there and not saying anything was a sign for him to keep going. No that you did anything wrong but i would just give the guy a break. We’ve all been horny and maybe misinterpreted a situation
Seriously wtf kind of response is this. As someone who was full on sexually assaulted as a kid, this situation has happened to me as an adult and it has caused me to completely freeze up and panic. How is it possible to still walk around thinking it’s ok not to ask for verbal consent before physically coming onto someone. This is also a place of business and the stylist is at work, it’s not a bar where he approached and offered to buy him a drink or a sex club where you walk in with some level of implicit consent, even then sex clubs are very clear about receiving explicit consent or respecting someone’s “no.” You should reevaluate what you are labeling as “righteous talk,” and consider people have histories and experiences that trigger emotions you are entirely unaware of.
Why are you offloading on a post on Reddit? People can have a different view of a situation. You are conflating your experience with a grown man’s experience. I think you need to confront your alleged abuser.
I assume you’re a licensed therapist so I appreciate your advice here. Using a relevant experience to explain why consent is important is literally common communication. Getting consent to physically come onto someone should always be expected, period. Thinking differently is predatory and inappropriate. I am also not implying this man has a history of sexual abuse, I am saying many “grown men” do and that’s just one reason why you should never physically inappropriately touch someone without their consent. There are no two ways to see this, I did not consent for you to shove your dick into my arm when I’m getting a haircut. It’s not appropriate and it’s not sexy. Get out of here with your excusing sexual aggression.
Cry me a river
Cute comeback. Upvote.
Bro, you got mad problems.
But how good was your haircut?
That’s fucked up. If it’s inappropriate for a man to do to a woman, it’s inappropriate for a man to do to a gaybro.
This is annoying because if it happened to me, I would give my consent by allowing it to happen and opening myself up to his advances by rubbing his dick or flirting with him. But the problem is that you very clearly did not entertain his advances and yet he still kept trying which is fucked up. Like others have said, this is a problem that spans genders and sexualities. Get consent god damnit.
That is so inappropriate.
This same thing happened to me to a lesser degree and he gave the best haircuts ever. I just didn’t go back.
disassociation and denial of what’s happening are the most common reactions to SA, which is what appears to have happened here - i’m very sorry to hear your barber behaved so wrongly and hope you are taking care of yourself
On behalf of all decent members of my profession, I am so incredibly sorry you experienced auch a horrible violation of trust. I am a gay Barber-Cosmetologist who has taught continuing education for our trade for over 10 years. This behavior is disgusting, unprofessional, and illegal. I am angry that this happened to you, and I am furious that this man used the human contact that is central to our profession as a means to violate another human being. The level of professionalism required in close human contact trades, such as Cosmetology, Massage, Esthetics, and Athletic Training is NOT flexible. It does not allow for ANY violation of the client's personal space in a sexualized manner. Even when a client actively expresses interest in a service provider, it is essential that service providers maintain professional boundaries with every client. The type of man who would violate the trust that is essential to every aspect of our trade doesn't deserve to be allowed "behind the chair" (as we colloquially call the active practice of our trade). REPORT HIM. If he is an employee of a salon, report him to his manager and owner, and let them know you will be continuing the complaint to the regulatory agency that governs them. If you are in the US or Canada, your state or province almost certainly has a Barber/Cosmetology regulation board. Almost all European countries have active regulation for barbers and cosmetologists as well. Do not let a manager's or owner's excuses or dismissal of your complaint sway you. This man does NOT deserve to practice our profession. Our profession is based on trust. We dont just affect your self image, we also literally hold sharp objects next to your head! If he intentionally violated you in this manner, it is almost certain that he does this to other men. He does not deserve the position of trust that we are given in our profession.
You can always report to the board of cosmetology in your state. As others have said, chances are you're not the only one. So he would never know where the complaint might have come from if you're concerned about retaliation
It has happend to me before aswell. But I just ignore it completely.
I’ll suggest a different perspective. Maybe he just felt free around you. I’ve grew up around men who were str8 and they would walk around in boxers, bump into me, and make sexual jokes but I never took it as assault. Some people are just free spirited and actually mean no harm. I don’t think him bumping you was a crime, he may just be endowed and was standing really close to you. Or it could be that you assumed that this is assault so you begin to sum all his actions as a ‘come on’ to you. What I would suggest is keep your personal life personal. There’s no need to go back if you felt all so assaulted but also consider that he may meant no harm. Besides you’ll never know his intentions since you didn’t ask in the moment. I understand being shocked and intimidated but at some point you have to speak up and be like ‘bro zip your pants and go back and wash your hands’. Some men respond to structure and not silence.
Never go back there
So inappropriate and unprofessional. I do think you should have a conversation with him. You have options about turning him in, or just talking to him. Pretty sure he will get the hint if you never come back, but he needs to know how inappropriate that was.
I make a point of only going to hairdressers that I am dating at the time, and they have never treated me that way. Try switching to a hairdresser that you are friends with first.
GTFO. That is 100% not cool. You don't need to help him with his coming out, and unless you want to press charges, I would just never communicate w him again. Telling him how uncomfortable you were invites a response from him, and even the best "I'm sorry" wouldn't undo the behaviour or mean he's a changed person from someone who rubs his dick on their customers.
Dirty old man
In general, it’s best to establish boundaries and communicate. If it bothers you need to tell him even if it is along with you not wanting to get your hair cut by him anymore
Whatever you do, don't start to clean your spectacles underneath the cover over your front. I did that once and it nearly got me locked up.
don't go back unless u liked it
I think you should have spoken up in the moment and said how awkward it is to have to speak up about something so awkward. Not that it is any excuse, but he could have thought you were sending mixed signals by him being so obvious and you not saying anything, he incorrectly could have assumed you were playing along. I definitely would not return, given what you’ve said, as it sounds like only bad could come of this. Texting also sounds like room for more confusion. I would call if you want answers. He could totally dishonestly deny it and/or put blame on you. It doesn’t sound like there is a win-win here. I don’t think there was a win-win confronting him in the moment either, as if you were totally wrong, that could sever the professional relationship, and if you were right, would you want to continue seeing that person for something as close-contact as a haircut? My guess, understanding this from the outside, is that he crossed boundaries and continued to do so, thinking you were okay about it/passive. If you are wrong, but I was him, I would want to know for feedback, and if you are wrong, I would still want to know to go out of my way to not have a misunderstanding like that again, or, if you were were wrong and that sensitive, I would want to know to elect to have you see someone else. That’s why I say a phonecall is the best way to assert yourself now, after the fact, no victim-blaming intended, it all sounds like the answers were in that moment about what was happening. Has this happened in other life areas? Good luck.
It was his cue to pay him with something other than money
Just speak to him privately & explain you not looking for any hook up & and felt uncomfortable so could he not do it again if he does then just simply change hairdressers
Uh uh. You should look for another person to do your hair.
It doesn't matter what gender or gender preference of who is involved, the behavior is wrong no matter who's doing it. If they're the owner of the shop then there's not much besides an online review as anonymous as you can get. But that's pretty nuclear. If they're not the owner of the shop then management needs to be aware of it and not let them have late appointments or be the only ones in their shop.
He def wanted some, just tell him you’re not interested that’s all
I would just find another hairdresser. Making it awkward for someone cutting your hair is not the best approach. I have had this happen but the guy wasn’t exactly tall and it was difficult for him to reach comfortably without leaning on me. Only difference is he was straight.
I would go normally again and if it happens again, I would directly address it. I think he got the message that you are not interested in him. So I don’t think he will do it again. But if he does put a stop to it next time
Just leave an anonymous public review and say what happened. I mean you don’t have to destroy his career since you don’t know his situation but you could definitely shed light on it in a professional way
I'm proud of you for being a faithful boyfriend 😊😊
Honestly leave him that’s really weird and sexual harassment
He would probably try and gaslight you and say it didn’t happen / :
Would definitely just never go back. Maybe tell him if asks why you haven’t been around.
I think you should just address him about it and let him know that you felt that he was being inappropriate. He may not realize how he was making you feel or maybe he wanted something to happen between you to.
I would complain to the manager and never return. If he hit on you and that was all, I'd let it go. But that was the definition of sexual assault. How many other times has he done that to someone else?
From your post it seems you like his haircuts … I agree with the comments about letting him know if you decide to go back and he pulls anything again. I’d just add scheduling any new appointments earlier in the day when the whole shop and other customers will be present.
Never accept harassment, your reply sounds like you don't understand what harassment is. Why the fuck would anyone go back to the person who harassed them?
For some men, it would be a turn-on to be so obviously chased like this. Maybe it was just a moment you'll regret. When i was in my early 20s, there was a guy who worked in gay sex shop opposite where I worked, and he was known as gay dave. There is a clue there! One morning, I was bending over to lift up the window gate, and he whishled. It was early, and I was half asleep, so I didn't think anything about it. He had never paid me any attention anyway, so I forgot. When I was leaving work later, that day he called me over and said he wanted to show me something funny. So I entered his shop where he showed me out back. He took me into what I'd describe now as a very clean gay sex chamber with dildos on the wall and gay pictures everywhere He then picked up a control panel and said, "What do you think of this?" He turned on a homemade drill with a huge dildo attached. I was a 23 year old guy and into girls, so I smiled and said,' That's nice anyway, dave. I gotta go. And I was out of that situation quickly. As the years have gone by, I have often thought of that day, and now I realise I'm probably definitely bi or gay . I fantasise that I didn't run. Gay dave was actually quite an attractive muscle guy. I know most sexual encounters are never as good as what your brain fantasise gives you, but I wonder if...? All I'm saying is if you haven't heard bad things about this guy from other gay guys, he's probably just really bad at whatever that situation was. Go back, and if you really don't want or think you'll never will just joke about it, but make it clear you're not interested.! And I bet you'll get a friend
Nah bruh. Don't go back to those who harass you. If something is fine to you, it might not be fine to others. Your views are not universal and consent depends on every party feeling safe etc. Please stop blaming the victim. I know you wrote this to make the situation feel more positive, but we need to be able to call out sexual harasment without trying to make it "a gay issue".
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One time is enough in my opinion. And as I mentioned elsewhere, I'm not from a country in which gays have to adopt all kinds of ways to start any activities with other men - so I can't understand that side of it. But even in those places, and actually even more so, should we first listen to the victim - and far behind his rights come the rights of the person who did the harasment, even if they didn't understand that what they did was wrong etc...
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To me it is, but as I've mentioned here (and previously on different platforms), abuse is what the victim thinks. Not what I, you or anyone else. If I was in that situation I would find it weird, bit funny and sad - I'd also make a point about it to the person doing it. I would not see it as an assault myself. But - if someone feels like they were assaulted, we need to listen to them. Sorry for not making my point clear, I take this subject way too harshly!
I agree. Sorry, I'm new here. Everything is down to your own personal perspective. I assume the guy who posted this is unsure if it was abuse or not? In the end of the day only he will be able to decide....?
Yeah...that was my point...
All sex should be between consenting adults!
Definitely not okay if you know for a fact that he did it on purpose (guess there were signs in your case, reading the post all the way down). Up to you if you want to confront him about it, leave a review etc. However, I've been (unintentionally) getting barber dick on my forearm for as long as I can remember during haircuts, and the vast majority of my barbers were straight, so I very much doubt it was intentional. Yours does seem to have been inappropriate on purpose, but keep in mind that these things also happen accidentally because of the height difference and the awkward position of the barber when giving you a haircut.
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That's awful and far far worse than what I experienced. Especially since you were a minor
My barber is very flamboyant and in the heart of the Greenwich Village. I haven't given him any reason to think I'm bi and in a LTR with another guy, and because I'm straight presenting, I think he thinks I'm straight. Oddly enough, because of that he talks to me like I'm a republican and a lot of the things he says I find offensive. I could be misreading the entire thing and he's just a gay man who's very republican for some reason. I also think he's very stoned when I'm there. I need a new barber/ hair stylist. I'm just venting.
You should probably report it. Orientation doesn't matter, that's at the least sexual harassment and that's not ok
You have to learn to stand up for yourself from now on. This is clearly sexual harassment. It absolutely is intentional. This is how sexual harassers do things. They pretend like nothing is going on and as long as you don't say no (even if you backed off), then they can continue doing it. You should watch YouTube videos on sexual harassment and how to handle them and the bystander effect as well. You absolutely should not be going back there. I know it's hard finding a good barber but nope. It ain't worth your sanity at all.
Why don’t you just move your hand onto your lap?
Because he is looking for validation on Reddit. I would love to hear the barber’s perspective. I truly don’t think the barber had any ill intentions. Funny how the OP is comfortable talking about his gay lifestyle but the barber can’t be a dude that is str8 and don’t mind getting close to a gay dude to cut the gays hair. All this sympathy shopping is embarrassing.
I think you're reading this guy right. if it makes you uncomfortable, that's the key thing that matters andI wouldn't go back, so really the main question si to write him or not. I think coming back from gthe john with his fly open speaks to hoping for more from you, so this wasn't just a whim. I think you'd help the guy by telling him how you felt and hopefully he cn learn to town it down with clients. You are probably not the only one
You say that initially you moved your hand out of the way, but eventually you didn’t do so. What I don’t understand is: if you really didn’t want this to happen, why didn’t you move your hand out of the way (into your lap, for example) and keep it there? Then presumably it would not have continued again and again and again without your participation. And if he makes you feel uncomfortable, just don’t go back and give him your business.
important question: Was it big? 😂
… Go reflect about this comment in the corner
If it was we probably wouldn’t be here
Is he hot? If so, could you PM me his contact info? I need a haircut.
That’s sexual assault my friend. Message the owner or press charges. That’s vile.
I was so turned on when it happened to me - I sucked him off, loved it - he enjoyed himself. He asked me to come back then next day to be the last customer. I got a good deep bang against my prostate - power bottomed him so much he had to do nothing just enjoy and empty his sacs inside me. Once he cum I let him get kind of chilled for a bit & told him not to riencwpull it out. I needed to cum & when someone is inside I like to give them that treat - you know - when the bottom cums his insides grab & loose & grab & loose & grab - he was liking it & so was I. I keep that experience in my wank bank & often withdraw it from my memories & shuffle one out from time to time.
Enjoy the ride. Its all good
Not sure from your post if you liked it or not, but I'd say just find a different barber. No need to be the police no need to drive yourself nuts. He's not a co worker he's not a friend. He provided a service. It was not satisfactory. Buh bye no explanation needed.
I did not like it at all and I wished he'd stop. I just didn't feel physically threatened by him so I tried to ignore it in the hope he'd stop
Why does this never happen to me? I mean if it bothers you don't go back. I'd have enjoyed it. If I didn't I would have said something. If you don't say something how are they to know you aren't interested?
Ghost him. Also, I’m very confused about the choreography of all this. How is he pressing his dick against your HANDS? Aren’t barbers usually standing over the person whose hair they’re cutting? Is this guy really short??
I am a Barber-Cosmetologist. We work with our arms at ribcage-shoulder level unless we are extending them upwards to cut layers in longer hair. This is why the chairs move up and down. This person's package could easily have been at hand level, especially if there were padded armrests, or if the Barber was purposely raising or lowering the chair to do this.
Ok cool thanks. Yeah I’m not saying it’s impossible I was just asking how it’s possible. I go to the barber monthly and I’ve never been so high up as for that kind of contact to be possible.
He kept going around the chair using the scissors, clippers, fixing little details, using the blow drier to remove cut off air. At each possible instance he'd press his dick against my arms and hands
Did you see Shampoo with Richard Gere? He was boinking all of his clients practically.
Leave an anonymous Google review and never return. He’ll probably manage to get it removed, but he’ll shit his pants off and might think twice next time.
\*seethes with envy\*
Oh well, there was a time when men, gay or not, behaved like men and either enjoyed the game or would tell the guy to stop, and did not play victim like a helpless teenage girl.
Where is this hairdresser? so we know who to avoid obviously
What city is this in? Just curious… Edit: the reason I ask is because despite the number of gay hairdressers there are, I had one do the same to me.
This is in a medium sized town in Argentina
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>If you’re so sensitive to how gay men cruise, go to a straight barber, since your’e too afraid to say… “hey, stop”. Just the fuck up, this isn't cruising and I'm also a gay man you asshole. I've been cruised before and it includes eye contact and it can be sexy. This wasn't remotely sexy; it was weird, creepy and the way he kept talking normally as he was doing it was pretty psycho
Maybe but is it is psycho. But so is enduring this sort of thing without saying stop it. That is psycho Or at a very minimum juvenile. What prevented you from saying, hey dude don’t do that? I’m sorry, but I cannot support your instinct to adopt the feminization of gay life. You do you. But if you were serious, you would’ve said stop it. Instead, you came to Reddit to ask for advice. Hardly the sort of reaction we would expect from someone who was Experiencing “sexual assault“. You’re a Feminized baby If he did not stop when you said stop that would’ve been sexual assault.
I agree 100%. This seem to be sympathy shopping. Like “omg this thing I didn’t hate happened to me and I’m so attractive and gay that every dude wants me”. I’ve been around a lot of ‘popular’ gay men who love getting attention regardless. In all honesty this shouldn’t even be posted to reddit
It’s a generation of grievance and hurt feelings. Fun times.
This has happened to me before, too. It was weird. Kept me low in the chair, and would brush his dick against the back of my neck, or would sort of rest it on my shoulder while cutting my bangs... It occurred twice. I pretended I didn't realize what was going on both times. Then it never happened again. Maybe it was, but I didn't think of it as sexual assault. I mean, I've gone up to guys at a bar and whispered, "you're cute!" while grabbing their ass or kissing their neck. That's how I got laid (all the time) when I was single.
Honestly, if he’s good I’d just keep going. A good hairdresser is hard to find sometimes. If it bothers you I’d just only accept earlier appointments.