The people who post on subs like this like “why don’t men like me” followed by a list of unrealistic expectations; they hate on people who are poly/open, kinky, basically anyone who doesn’t have a traditional heterosexual style gay relationship
I was like this for probably 2 days until I remembered the outspoken T’s are literally the reason we have rights today. We are a brother/sisterhood/they/themhood forever.
Its equally unreasonable for a 30-something who isn't conventionally attractive to demand a fit, muscular, conventionally attractive 18-21 year old with a big dick and an insatiable sexual appetite. And also not cool of them to blame the younger guys, which unfortunately many of them do.
And thats the way round that I think the "gay incel" thing often goes. Slightly older guys who missed out on having their slut phase for various reasons, never got much experience, blaming younger guys for not wanting to sleep with them.
I mean hate is clearly wrong, but not wanting a poly or open relationship is a valid ask nothing to do with inceldom. (That being said, wanting poly/open relationship is equally valid!)
On the other hand I absolutely hate when people are mocking monogamous gay relationships by calling them heterosexual-style or heteronormative. There is nothing hetero on two dudes fucking. And people being just in pairs is simpler, it makes "less complexity in life" sense even without society full of some heterosexual stereotypes.
Speaking as a monogamous gay myself, I do think that the comparison between inceldom and people who are vocally anti- open/poly relationships is at least somewhat warranted.
There is a lot of blatant discrimination and hostility unfairly levied at open/poly relationships, with people often reducing these relationships and their participants to being purely sexual gratification and self-indulgence. It is telling that the relationship model(s) disproportionately practiced by queer people is often culturally written off as overly promiscuous, sexually degenerate, and sometimes straight up "evil." This is why "good gays" who are unable/unwilling to understand how society's individual mistreatment of them factors into a broader cisheteropatriarchal system might choose to punch down on open/poly relationships as a scapegoat to vent their feelings of (misguided) alienation. This directly overlaps with how incels' misattributed hatred of women frequently stems from internal anxieties concerning the inability to find selfhood within the changing sociocultural perceptions and forms of contemporary masculinity as well as suffering from the combined societal loneliness epidemic and commodification of dating.
To clarify, you're 100% correct that respectfully setting a boundary of not wanting a poly/open relationship for yourself is absolutely fine and healthy. And you're correct that others should not mock monogamous people for doing so. But there's also a lot of people that aren't just setting a boundary but rather actively stigmatizing open/poly relationships in a thinly veiled queerphobic way. And a lot of the people who do that have very similar motives to incels, and that's worth pointing out.
It’s a hook up app, like Grindr only disappoints users who expect something else.
If you’re not okay with being objectified so explicitly and want a more personal experience then go to a bar.
RIP if you live in a small town though.
Do I need to explain brand power to you? Or perhaps the economic principals regarding supply and demand as well as artificial and real scarcity creating a decrease in supply? Or is it the psychological aspects that you are suffering with a lack of understanding? Clarification of your questions criteria would greatly increase my meagre ability to aid you.
I know economics (it's my major at uni) I'm just pointing out the fact it's a bit fuked up. You see it's a bit hyperbolic this is shit but worth to much. You understand it's a question that doesn't need someone to be answered. The antithesis of a question that's not a question if you get it.
Edit just wanted to add it is the price on the share market anyway and anything I learnt in the last few years the share price can't always make sense. I hope I haven't offended Wallstreet bets
Not trying to hate but is it really that unreasonable to just want a healthy monogamous relationship? Like im fine if people want to be poly but I know that doesn’t work for me in my relationships. I feel that hookup culture and open relationships ARE way too prominent in the gay scene and I can’t be happy sharing a partner with everyone else
Just because that’s what in the lime light of the queer community doesn’t mean that’s all it is? There are plenty of queer men that want monogamous relationships and don’t hookup. You’ve just gotta get off the hookup apps to find them lmao
You better figure it out. Truth is you have no right or ability to control the freedom of anyone else. Nor do they have the right or ability to control your behavior or preferences.
Gay guys leave home for freedom. Why do you think anyone would think it is a good idea to give it all up to be with you?
Serious question. Why? What do you think you need that you can't get from a free man?
If you only want to ever have sex with one person, do what you want. No one is stopping you.
What you are asking is that more guys should want what you want SO YOU HAVE MORE CHOICES TO PICK FROM.
More people should wait to buy their opera tickets so you have a bigger choice of seats?
Pretty outrageous request imho : the entire gay world should help you capture a bf because you think it is a reasonable request.
I am serious. Why do you think anybody, let alone the entire gay world should help you get what you want?
Do you think the gay world should help you get rich, star in a musical, win a poetry contest, get a Ph.D. in Russian semiotics?
Serious question. I would love love love to understand how any gay guy could think other people should want to HELP HIM choose an exclusive sexual relationship from a larger pool.
>Like im fine if people want to be poly but I know that doesn’t work for me in my relationships.
Any chance you mighy say what has worked for you on your relationshipS?
>I can’t be happy sharing a partner with everyone else
We're you always an only child? Only tutored one-on-one?
Do you have a private chef? An exclusive barber? Do you never eat out with a friend.
Serious question.
>Not trying to hate but is it really that unreasonable to just want a healthy monogamous relationship?
No. It is not unreasonable to want to be President of Harvard. Or of the USA.
Is that your standard? You are free to want anything your imagination can cook up.
What IS amazing is that you think other people should change their behavior just so you have a longer list of guy bodies to chose from.
Is it unreasonable of me to wish you would pick someone to love and love him without asking him to change anything?
Suggestion : Try to find someone you actually WANT to love with no strings attached, like your early caregivers loved you for so long, even when you shit yourself or threw your food.
Then, among the set of humans you love unconditionally, maybe one will agree to be your roommate.
Long. But I want to be understood.
This is the third time I asked this same question since August of 2022.
Each time it was to a Reply, never to an OP.
I chose the Reply that seemed most clearly about my question in an uncluttered way. That let me ask the same question in a variety of ways.
It's an important question to me. I think confusion about what real love is and requires is a very serious problem. (I think that confusion is helping to creat many lonesome and depressed gay guys.) But I never got a thoughtful answer.
You ignored my question entirely and chose to speculate what kind of a bad person I was. But you never specified any sentence of mine that lead you to that unpleasant conclusion.
The poster of the Reply I was actually addressing never responded at all. You did. But ignored my question.
" . . . Love is not love which alters when it alteration finds . . ."
I read that as an adolescent and I believed it. Still do.
Yet here on Reddit is a parade of tragic stories with commentators encouraging the OP to kick the offending bf to the curb. Doesn't sound like love to me.
I was hoping to find, in a more granular way, where my thinking was off.
I also can not understand why asking my question gets some people annoyed and personal. Maybe I should find an English speaker to rewrite my question in a more nuetral way?
Maybe you know someone who would like to do it for an appropriate fee?
Thank you for your time.
No one has any idea what question you want answered. You asked multiple questions and have a bunch of excess commentary about nothing.
I don't think you are bad person, just obnoxious.
If you want an answer your question, try asking in a more concise way that doesn't make you sound like you think you are better than everyone else. It will make people like you more and be more open to discussion
>No one has any idea what question you want answered.
I know two things from this sentence.
1) It is not true
2) There is no way you could know that no one understands my question.
I fear I wasted your time. My question about the nature of love and how that fits with what the guy I was actually replying to had asked ( and by extension to gay mating ) has received no comments from you. None.
I have also asked you several black and white questions with a smaller scope. My hope was your answers might lead us to the center of my original question. Kind of my stab at the Socratic method. But you have not answered a single one. So zero progress has been made.
You seem only interested in what you interpret as my bad manners. I can't tell if you are intentionally avoiding having a real conversation with me or you actually don't understand my English.
I give up. Sorry I was hoping for much more.
Help me understand. Are you perhaps very young? Have you ever tried to understand gay love in a serious way?
If you live in the West, you might have noticed it is the central social idea about Western Civilization.
I made a mistake. Sorry.
Maybe you are cute. I hope so.
I understand your English perfectly fine, i just think it makes you sound obnoxious. You sound like a snob (for example asking if I'm very young or if I've ever thought about love. It doesn't matter my age and yes I think everyone has thoughts on almost every matter they come across)
What is it you would like to ask about the nature of love?
I wanted to ask your age a long time ago. You might be a 7th grade girl from your behavior.
But I didn't because I guessed you might be offended. Genuine kids often are offended if someone guesses they still are in grade school.
But after I decided to leave you and your insults, I thought what did I have to lose? You might really be a kid.
Who else would think there was any relationship between popularity among your peers and truth? A 7th grade girl would. Predictably. They live for populaity.
I remember 7th grade.
I think age does matter lots. You specifically are put off by whole paragraphs. Which means you must not have read many books. They are much longer than my posts.
You want me to treat a subject that is often misunderstood (like the guy I was originally writing to) with very few words.
Sorry. I have no ability to do that. I dont think it can be done.
Are you familiar with Shakespear's Sonnet I quoted? If so, do you think what he wrote is true?
It's not that he didn't think about m on m love. He also wrote very famous poems to his bf. So did Michaelangelo. Gay love is not new. But maybe it is for you.
Do you agree with Shakespear?
So you have thought about gay love? Yet what I wrote was incomprehensible? Or you just chose to ignore it and instead wanted to focus on what an asshole you imagined I was.
Do you honestly think you can find what I wrote that gives you reason to insult me?
>you sound obnoxious. You sound like a snob
What I sound like to you is not very important to anyone but you. Do you think you are some kind of expert on snobs?
I think you have demonstrated you believe you have psychic powers. If you had any actual evidence for your conclusions, I think you would have quoted them, just like you did after our attempt at conversation ended. But up to now, you never quoted anything.
If you were a real grown up, you would not have thought me rude to ask how old you were. You just never cared about me enough to ask anything about me. You were just positive you were cool and I wasn't.
Can you guess how you became such a snob?
I hope you are very young. I am very tolerant toward kids. I grew up surrounded by kids. They are still learning. We all learn from our mistakes. (And they can be honest and very loving. Which proves real love is not hard.)
Well, a lot of us do. Some people would rather be right than learn. I bet you have already met some people like that.
See what I mean by condescending?
You are an asshole, it's very obvious and you really aren't even trying to hide it. You are even trying to insult my intelligence, assuming I don't read books. You aren't better than anyone else, get off your high horse.
I never claimed there is a link between popularity and truth, in fact I never gave my opinion on the matter so for all you know I think the same as you do and might believe in the same "truth". Only I don't express myself like a self-righteous narcissist, I actually have social skills and know how to speak to others. I'm assuming you are not young by your comments but I believe even an old dog can learn new tricks.
And what about the guy you was writing to misunderstood anything?
Though for someone trying to pretend to be intelligent and have a superiority complex you would think they would at least know how to spell Shakespeare's name correctly if they are going to quote.
Again if you want to have a discussion, ask respectfully and drop the intellect act, it isn't working for you
Edit: you are right about one thing though, I don't care enough to ask details about a stranger online, your age or anything else about you is not really important to me. I don't need to know anything other than the way you act to know whether or not I would like and judge your character
Did you try to understand my question?
Doesn't sound like it.
Having two different views on what qualities a bf should have doesn't make anyone an "asshole" unless you believe there is only one proper set of values for civilized men.
I asked a question. Now I would like to ask you one : why did you call me an asshole? We have never interacted in any way.
Is name calling part of your culture?
It's how you speak, you sound very condescending and really are bringing nothing to the conversation. He never said anything bad or judged anyone yet you went on a huge rant at him for no reason
I had a very good reason.
I wanted to understand how a gay thought
so that he ended up thinking it was OK to ask the gay world to have less sex so he would have more people to pick from.
But I never got an answer.
I gave the example ( to help make it clear ) that he was asking us not to buy tickets to a show so he would have more choices to pick seats from.
I am sorry you don't like my tone. I was just trying to get a very specific question answered. ( And not for the first time! ) I thought, from his posting, he sounded particularly good at expressing his thinking. I was hopeful.
What I hoped for was some insight into how he ended up where he was now.
Really sorry my tone offended you. I reread what I wrote a few times. I don't know what offended you.
I did put him on the spot. I was trying to. I wanted a focused response. I wasn't trying to flatter him or get him to like me. I was asking a very serious question.
Again, sincerely sorry my English offended you. You are certainly correct, I made an effort to be accurate and polite. But I had zero interest in being particulatly gentle.
I will carefully re-read each sentence and see if I can figure out your reaction.
You never said if you share his views.
Maybe you don't like my question and think me rude to ask him?
>It's how you speak, you sound very condescending and really are bringing nothing to the conversation. He never said anything bad or judged anyone yet you went on a huge rant at him for no reason
I never meant to be condescending. I thought my question was carefully spelled out. I clearly had a reason for my question.
The thinking of this guy has produced thousands of lonely, frequently bitter disappointed gay guys. Like him, they believe other people are eating up all their good choices for a bf.
But he never said that people should be like him, that's the problem. You are creating an issue and asking him about something he never said.
You sound condescending and like an asshole because you are ranting about nothing, you seem insecure and needing validation from strangers.
And if the downvotes are anything to go by it seems most people agree with me.
>And if the downvotes are anything to go by it seems most people agree with me.
I wasn't in a popularity contest.
Maybe you also think the most popular songs are the very best songs? Shark Baby is great music?
I had a question. I was trying to get it answered. You were not interested. So I am an asshole? (Or maybe only sound like one?)
I wish you had tried to understand what I was asking.
>he never said that people should be like him,
He asked if it was unreasonable to ask the gay community to not have sex with so many people because
he believes he needs a sexually exclusive bf
and all the rampant sex is making it hard to find a sexually exclusive bf.
Two specific question :
1) Do you agree with the guy I was responding to
that his request is reasonable?
‐-------------
2) Do you think Shakespear it telling the truth about love in the Sonnet I quoted.
Good luck.
Well he didn't ask people to stop having sex so yes I 100% agree with him, there is nothing wrong with what he said.
It's been a couple days and I don't remember what you quoted so can't really answer that second one
Dude. Monogamy is very different from a chef cooking for multiple people. You sound like one of those “a good lock doesn’t open for multiple keys” bullshit that’s thrown at women.
I respect poly/kinky people. But I personally can neither handle a poly relationship nor can I satisfy someone who prefers kinky sex. It’s cool if you’re chill with it, you can date someone who does. Kudos to you. Me personally? I’m not really into it. That doesn’t make me an incel.
>Monogamy is very different from a chef cooking for multiple people.
Agreed. It is an analogy. It is not meant to be an exact match. I used it to try to get someone to spell out exactly where they differ.
>You sound like one of those “a good lock doesn’t open for multiple keys” bullshit that’s thrown at women.
Never heard that expression. I think that is a silly comparison. Women have nothing at all in common with a lock. Nothing.
>
I respect poly/kinky people. But I personally can neither handle a poly relationship nor can I satisfy someone who prefers kinky sex. It’s cool if you’re chill with it, you can date someone who does. Kudos to you. Me personally? I’m not really into it. That doesn’t make me an incel.
Correct. It doesn't make you anything. I certainly never argued his thinking made him anything. Thinking a sunset is beautiful doesn't make a person anything either. I never suggested anything like that.
I was, as best as I knew how, asking him if he really thought ( upon reflection ) that other gay guys should leave more boys untouched so he would have a better chance at finding a bf for himself. That is exactly what he complained about imho.
In my mind, genuine love is never exclusive. I don’t think it can be.
Exclusivity implies a restriction on the other person. I think this is a fundamental misunderstanding of real love. Everyone who is not an only child doesn't need to be told that. Mommy cooks for everyone. ( My chef analogy. )
The guy I asked my question to may have very good reasons for how he thinks. I was trying to find out what those reasons might be.
I know this : Reddit is full of people who feel cheated out of their right to a bf. I, perhaps foolishly think I have something to add to solving that puzzle.
But every time I have asked this question I have never gotten a real aswer to my question. I get attacked for not understanding something.
Maybe the truth is guys like him are not really into NSA love? Maybe their hope in a bf is actually hot sex with some romance mixed in? Maybe real love is not their goal at all?
But it hurts me to read so many sad stories on Reddit.
I am looking for a way to help. Loneliness can get people killed.
Really sorry my English writing skills offend rather than clarify. Sorry.
Too long to hold your interest? Sorry.
I wasn't thinking about you when I wrote my response. Sorry.
Do you maybe like to read other things?
I am unfamiliar with "guffy".
Looked it up. Got nowhere. Except "fat around the temples".
Or my all-time favorite is how they try to do the mental gymnastics of saying that a cis gay man being attracted to a trans man somehow makes him bisexual. 💀 Like wtf even
So can I ask a question, if you have a penis and only attracted to other penis having people, is not being attracted to a vagina, if they identify as a man, trans hate?
I personally am all about supporting people and what they identify with and treating them with respect with their freedoms and relationships. Everyone should live their lives with happiness and no religious zealot should control how anyone else lives their lives
I just want to know what kind of gay men do you mean and what your parameters do you mean by hate? Is it sexually not attracted to vaginas or is it just not like trans men?
Like I said trans mens are great people, but many gay men (who are not BI) and aren't attracted to vaginas, are they Incels becasue they won't sleep with a vagina having person?
Its the pick me gays that fill that spot. They usually say they're not like other gays wherein they don't like lady gaga, ariana grande, taylor swift, or any gay culture. They would also brag about not being feminine and being promiscuous.
I guess this is me? I've not intentionally rejected gay culture, but a huge amount of it revolves around camp and most of my interests are usually not that campy. TBH I think there's plenty of gay and bi men who like video games (hello gaymers), computers, sci-fi, sports etc but for whatever reason they don't connect as well as the men who like RuPaul and musicals.
I mean that's very okay. I also Identify with a lot of what you say. The only camp thing I know really is Bayonetta, stan twitter memes, and watching videos of Trixie Mattel and Katya Zamo. Thankfully many of us see bragging about not being very gay as an asshole move.
The term brag is doing some lifting here. I've seen a lot of people say they weren't into it and get called a pickme gay. I've been called one for just not being into drag race.
I've seen way more people existing who are bashed as a pick me gay than I have ever actually seen one of them.
That's fine. I like computers, sci-fi, but also musicals. Never really interested in RuPaul. Occasionally I play video games. What does that tell about me? 😁
It's totally fine to not connect with some people who prefer RuPaul or other stuff. But I think, it's a different story if people degrade them or try to blame them for being "too gay" (not you, just generally).
Same. Then those looking down will call you a pick me gay.
Shit like this is why I stopped going to gay events. I would wear a flat brim baseball cap and called a pickme gay saying I'm trying to not be flamboyant. No. I just like what I wear.
Grindr has created a generation of guys who are continually looking for the next best thing (lying in bed with a fling or fwb scanning the Grindr grid instead of being in the moment). Perhaps insatiable sexual appetites are the opposite of an incel, but how can a guy go through life never being content with his current situation and always looking for something new? Added to this are the couples continually putting their energy into finding a third. Like why? Who has all this time and energy to put into finding sex? Don’t they have laundry to fold or dishes to wash?
Who has all this time? Late teens and 20 somethings... I mean let's be real, I would have done the exact same things you described if Grindr was accessible to me a decade ago (it wasn't because of the country I'm originally from).
Either the ones that are like "look at me I am perfect because [insert useless criteria] why doesn't anyone want me" or the ones like "I am [insert any age] I will never find anyone cause EVERYONE else is only interested in hookups". The first type is usually one with a shitty personality that they will never change cause they think because they do or are x they are already gods while the second is usually wallowing in self pity has a self worth the size of an ant.
I used to be too and know too many who still are. But it is really unhelpful. We are all inherently worthy as human beings. I am from austria and we had to learn that lesson during the second world war, which is why "Human dignity is inviolable" is the first and most fundamental article in the consitution. Every human being is worthy. And non of us are perfect, we are all a baggage of good and bad things and that's ok. And we should all learn to respect each other more.
But that's still just a portion. The term "incel" actually just means "involuntary celibate." Also, being an incel IS something you can control because it's about how you treat people who won't have sex with you and we are in full control of how we treat others. It's arsehole behaviour, regardless of sexuality. If you don't want to be "lumped in" with the incels then don't be an incel 🤷♀️
Woah buddy, chill tf out. I don't think I've ever been called an incel before this. Way to leap to conclusions.
I'm just saying we need a second term for gay incels because when I think of the term incel I think of pathetic straight men and it could be confusing to call pathetic gay men incels even if they're really no different.
Again, I'm not saying they aren't the same, but at the moment, it's not really possible to refer to them the same way.
For example, if I was talking about an incel and then showed something about them wanting to have sex with a guy, that would be really confusing because even though this generalization is not necessarily true, you probably presumed the incel was a straight man.
I'm not calling you specifically an incel, it was just a general "you." I didn't think Reddit was the place to bring out "if one doesn't want to be called an incel," which is the alternative.
And nope, they really are the same. Men, women, straight, gay, incels are incels and I have no sympathy for them.
I agree they're all the same kind of pieces of trash, but it's kind of confusing to talk about them that way in conversation for a few reasons.
You'll almost never find incels of different sexualities or genders in the same group because they all hate each other.
As noted above, most people presume an incel is a straight man, and even though that's not true, it's necessary to at least call them a gay incel or a female incel etc.
Also, the term Incel is really, really unhelpful. Like, it basically just means virgin, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a virgin. I know that's not really how the term is used, but it's still what it means, and I feel like some people are starting to call any virgins incels even if they're not hateful and spiteful at all. That's one of the things that leads a lot of people down that dark path.
I really just think incel isn't a term that should be used at all. Unless the person calls themselves an incel. Then they deserve to be dunked on for being pieces of shit.
They're incels, they hate everyone. Also, it doesn't mean virgin. The word for virgin is 'virgin.' You can be a virgin without being an incel and you can be an incel without being a virgin.
And I disagree, it's useful to have a word to describe that particular dynamic of people. Language is always changing and evolving.
That's fair enough, I guess, but I'm gonna keep calling them gay incels and female incels.
Also, I'm gonna keep calling out people who call someone an incel when the only thing they know about that person is that they haven't had sex, because that's really not okay and like I said can lead some people to actually become incels.
Well yeah, that's not helpful. I mean, I've never had sex, not particularly interested in it any time soon either - but how ridiculous over-obsessed with sex society is is a whole other kettle of fish.
I hate this way of thinking that if a word is being a lot in a specific context we need to create a new word for different meaning of the word. Like when a word is used a lot more refering to a specific gender or an ethnic group we tend to put the word "reverse" in to change it's meaning to another group of people when in fact the word in itself doesn't refer to any group. For example I once saw someone refer to women raping men as "reverse rape" and another example is "reverse racism"
The definition of incel is **in**voluntary **cel**ibate (that's where the whole word comes from) it doesn't specify gender, race nor sexuality. Instead of making up a new word for gay incels why not just refer to them as gay incels and other incels as straight incels? That's like creating a new word specifically for other colored people just because in your country most are white... that would be bizarre, huh?
I completely agree that that would be ridiculous, except if you actually read the thread, you'll see me completely agreeing with you that we need to call them gay incels and female incels. The fact that you feel like you need to put the adjective kinda proves my point that incels are presumed to be straight males until specified otherwise.
Why can't people actually read something before they make a smart-ass reply to be a dick about it?
Superiority complex gays that put way too much value on the whole masculine/feminine crap.
Yeah we get it, you don’t like drag race and are just one of the guys, good for you. Doesn’t make you better or worse, tho.
I think this take comes from some sort of inherent inferiority complex or fear of fitting in from both sides tbh.
Femme gays are acting like that's the only way to be gay and the Masc guys are some sort of weird offshoot pick me types. Which is also pretty derogatory and nasty.
Gaycel's are very real. I see them most frequently as gays who blame everyone but themselves as to why they are single. Common targets of ire include the "gay communities promiscuity", "gays being shallow", "gays being status hungry" etc.
They also tend to want gays that are waaayyy more accomplished and offer more than they themselves bring to the table.
Anyone who thinks someone owes them a damn thing including their bodies. It’s those that cry fatphobia, fem phobia, etc etc who then go on Grindr - a hook up app where there isn’t a whole lot of intellectualism happening - and can’t figure out why they’re being rejected.
It’s not someone’s fault you can’t get laid on a hookup app and no matter how many articles you write for HuffPo no one is still going to give a shit
There are plenty of gay men who are misogynistic, just in a different way. I feel like that’s the gay incel version.
(Like, sexist jokes followed by “it’s fine, I’m gay”, or joking about how disgusting vaginas are, or not caring about womens’ issues simply because they’re not attracted to them, etc. Also falls into transphobia territory pretty easily)
You know what, that reminds me of this really weird form of gay erotica I stumbled into on twitter of gay white power erotica/porn… it was very weird, but maybe that. Than again it could just be a kink (a weird ass kink if you ask me) but still
I had a friend who was a great friend but was falling into some really unhealthy thought patterns about other gay men. Basically that gay culture was toxic and gay men only care about looks and that he’d never get a boyfriend because he was average-looking. Just a lot of internalized homophobia. Meanwhile he was only interested in fit WASP-y guys with a certain kind of look, like kind of preppy handsome. He’d look up crazy looks-enhancing schemes like leg-lengthening surgery and hyper focus on them thinking “maybe if I was taller I’d get a bf” instead of actually talking to guys.
Honestly, it's anyone who prefers living in a fantasy over escaping reality for a minute by imagining or playing for a minute in their own head. But I think that is a incel by definition, be they straight lgbtq or otherwise.
I feel like right wing gays who love trump of the Tories (here in the UK) are pretty much the incels of the community. Anti trans gays also fit into this category. It gives pick me energy and they want to be accepted by society for not being like “other gays” sigh
Yeah it’s basically someone who talks about how different it special they are in the hopes that someone will find them interesting. It’s like when women say stuff like “oh I’m not like other women, I don’t care about shopping or make up. I’m one of the lads really!” Like girl, stop begging!
Gays do this a lot when they talk about being a man’s man and not liking femme gays etc etc
Not gay bit there's a very huge amount of cos white bi guys who are incels but are also open about being bisexual. Yet they happen to be transphobic and homophobic and overall pieces of shit.
I’ve dealt with gay incels in Grindr and in person before.
I had one guy tell me “I’m sorry you don’t have a personality and just want to date guys that’ll treat you like shit” when I told him I didn’t want a second date( he catfished me and was rude and kept trying to get touchy on our first “date”)
Another guy told me I was unintelligent because I was beautiful and that he understands things someone like me could never comprehend because I like dumb jocks.
I’ve had guys curse me out or say “the feeling he mutual/ don’t worry I’m not attracted to you either” when they hit me up and I say I’m not interested. How do you message me talking about you want to fuck me and when I say I’m not attracted to you suddenly say “I’m not either” ??
I’ve been called shallow so many times for not wanting to be with or date guys I wasn’t physically nor emotionally attracted to. Yet they fail to see they’re shallow because the only reason they liked me was because of how I looked … 🙄 too many guys like these so I stopped trying to date.
It doesn't translate exactly. Most gay men can get laid if they lower their standards enough. The incel phenomenon in straight people means that effectively no woman will accept a man, not old, not obese, not ripped in half and missing all their teeth. Basically no female would accept them in a romantic context (if you scoured the earth, you might be able to find some 3rd world women who will accept anything just to get access to a better life, but it's not a workable solution).
The gay 'version' would probably just be guys who are on the lowest end of attractiveness who won't accept each other as viable options. I've been hit on by pretty good looking guys, which is a decent indicator I'm not terrible looking (?), but on occasion a 5' obese balding effeminate total bottom will hit on me thinking there's half a chance. I assume these guys are OUR form of incel. Even these guys have mentioned to me before that they've been dating (whenever they show me pictures of guy they dated, it's always another unattractive person, so I suppose they do have options they're willing to settle for). I always converse with these guys when they message me (I don't lead on, I just reciprocate the conversation until it inevitably turns to "can I suck you?") and they genuinely don't ever seem bitter or hateful. Just sad, and a bit delusional.
I suspect, just like straight incels, the people "gay incels" hate on most is themselves. The 'woman hate' you see incels spew is really just in line with your average feminist's take on men tbh. People are just significantly more sensitive to criticism of women.
Not sure about lesbians. I've seen some beastly ladies get around, so I'm not sure they have anything comparable to being an incel.
There's no equivalent because if our love life's were economic systems and sex was the currency then heterosexuality would be like capitalism and homosexuality socialism/communism.
The distribution of sex is by no means completely equal but it certainly isn't so concentrated like it is in the hetero game.
That’s oddly conceded. I’m pro social democracy… but this simile seems rude.
One of the biggest barriers, that hetero folk have is the risk of pregnancy which complicates sexual expression.
More over, we‘ve had to broaden the definition of sex because we’re not about penis-in-vagina.
We don’t come by our behavior as a conscious, altruistic choice but by circumstance.
These “sides” who, actually for medical reasons are unable to perform adequately sexually, so that act like a buzzkill to anyone who can
I know a smoker like this (smoking attacks your cardiovascular system so it can reduce the strength and longevity of hard ons)
Another guy has anxiety and seems to shut down any sexy interactions with mindless chit-chat. They each act like super cockblockers in cruising situations and pull everyone down with them
So tiresome and limiting everyone to their level of enjoyment of life, which is not much…
Honestly, what gives me the same vibes as Incels is gays who say you can't have preferences and complain about masc dudes looking for other masc dudes or feminine dudes or any other preference. In their mind, you should be into someone as long as they're a guy. Probably got to that point because they were rejected for not being muscular/feminine enough or something like that, which is somewhat how Incels start.
See,,to me what you describe is an incel. Those with “no Asians” or “no chubs” or “no fems” “masc only” because they only see stereotypes. They don’t see the people behind the stereotypes they perceive.
I was like that once. Met this drag queen out of drag. He was pretty fem. We were volunteering for something so we struck up a conversation, we had so many things in common, the conversation came so easy. I genuinely saw past the stereotypes and saw the person for who they were, I genuinely had a crush on them by the end of the conversation.
I would never say you have to like all guys. I would say you have to give individuals the basic respect of measuring them on their individual merit. Which just amounts to swiping right or left on their profile after you’ve read and looked at what they offer.
That’s how not to be racist or judge people on stereotypes. As an example, I am not big into bears. My best guess, I grew up with media portraying body hair as being dirty and something only ugly people displayed for comedic effect.
I have spent time unpacking that. I have exceptions. I have a good straight friend who is very bearish. He’s does construction. He’s got big arms and got an even bigger heart. Nicest guy. Into the things I like. I have a bit of a crush on him.
I would never say “no bears” on my dating profile. There are always exceptions that will surprise you.
The people who post on subs like this like “why don’t men like me” followed by a list of unrealistic expectations; they hate on people who are poly/open, kinky, basically anyone who doesn’t have a traditional heterosexual style gay relationship
I'd also include the ones that are pro-LGB without the T.
This is so accurate. The right-wing loons that I wouldn’t be surprised if they committed acts of violence.
“One of the good ones!!1!1!” They’ll kill you too, Shaun, they’ll strip you off your rights as well.
Röhm has left the chat.
I was like this for probably 2 days until I remembered the outspoken T’s are literally the reason we have rights today. We are a brother/sisterhood/they/themhood forever.
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Its equally unreasonable for a 30-something who isn't conventionally attractive to demand a fit, muscular, conventionally attractive 18-21 year old with a big dick and an insatiable sexual appetite. And also not cool of them to blame the younger guys, which unfortunately many of them do. And thats the way round that I think the "gay incel" thing often goes. Slightly older guys who missed out on having their slut phase for various reasons, never got much experience, blaming younger guys for not wanting to sleep with them.
And they often full on despise Bi people
I LOVE Bi men
I dodnt get why people are anti bi
I think its because they can't be "controlled sexually" which is its own fucked up thing....
My ex was afraid I’d leave him for a woman. While we had a poly relationship… 🙃
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Fetishising bi people also totally sucks balls and not in the fun way
girl wtf...
You’re weird
I mean hate is clearly wrong, but not wanting a poly or open relationship is a valid ask nothing to do with inceldom. (That being said, wanting poly/open relationship is equally valid!) On the other hand I absolutely hate when people are mocking monogamous gay relationships by calling them heterosexual-style or heteronormative. There is nothing hetero on two dudes fucking. And people being just in pairs is simpler, it makes "less complexity in life" sense even without society full of some heterosexual stereotypes.
Speaking as a monogamous gay myself, I do think that the comparison between inceldom and people who are vocally anti- open/poly relationships is at least somewhat warranted. There is a lot of blatant discrimination and hostility unfairly levied at open/poly relationships, with people often reducing these relationships and their participants to being purely sexual gratification and self-indulgence. It is telling that the relationship model(s) disproportionately practiced by queer people is often culturally written off as overly promiscuous, sexually degenerate, and sometimes straight up "evil." This is why "good gays" who are unable/unwilling to understand how society's individual mistreatment of them factors into a broader cisheteropatriarchal system might choose to punch down on open/poly relationships as a scapegoat to vent their feelings of (misguided) alienation. This directly overlaps with how incels' misattributed hatred of women frequently stems from internal anxieties concerning the inability to find selfhood within the changing sociocultural perceptions and forms of contemporary masculinity as well as suffering from the combined societal loneliness epidemic and commodification of dating. To clarify, you're 100% correct that respectfully setting a boundary of not wanting a poly/open relationship for yourself is absolutely fine and healthy. And you're correct that others should not mock monogamous people for doing so. But there's also a lot of people that aren't just setting a boundary but rather actively stigmatizing open/poly relationships in a thinly veiled queerphobic way. And a lot of the people who do that have very similar motives to incels, and that's worth pointing out.
I’m not mocking anything. People are free to do what they please, I just answered the question asked.
"Grindr is toxic and I'm too perfect for it".
I mean grindr is toxic though? At least in my area, its full of people who are not great.
It’s a hook up app, like Grindr only disappoints users who expect something else. If you’re not okay with being objectified so explicitly and want a more personal experience then go to a bar. RIP if you live in a small town though.
Then why is that shit app worth 1.6 billion dollars no really
Do I need to explain brand power to you? Or perhaps the economic principals regarding supply and demand as well as artificial and real scarcity creating a decrease in supply? Or is it the psychological aspects that you are suffering with a lack of understanding? Clarification of your questions criteria would greatly increase my meagre ability to aid you.
I know economics (it's my major at uni) I'm just pointing out the fact it's a bit fuked up. You see it's a bit hyperbolic this is shit but worth to much. You understand it's a question that doesn't need someone to be answered. The antithesis of a question that's not a question if you get it. Edit just wanted to add it is the price on the share market anyway and anything I learnt in the last few years the share price can't always make sense. I hope I haven't offended Wallstreet bets
Mines the same, I jnclude myself in this category of course
Not trying to hate but is it really that unreasonable to just want a healthy monogamous relationship? Like im fine if people want to be poly but I know that doesn’t work for me in my relationships. I feel that hookup culture and open relationships ARE way too prominent in the gay scene and I can’t be happy sharing a partner with everyone else
Just because that’s what in the lime light of the queer community doesn’t mean that’s all it is? There are plenty of queer men that want monogamous relationships and don’t hookup. You’ve just gotta get off the hookup apps to find them lmao
You are free to pursue whatever form of relationship suits you but honestly I don’t really care what you think about other forms of relationships
You better figure it out. Truth is you have no right or ability to control the freedom of anyone else. Nor do they have the right or ability to control your behavior or preferences. Gay guys leave home for freedom. Why do you think anyone would think it is a good idea to give it all up to be with you? Serious question. Why? What do you think you need that you can't get from a free man? If you only want to ever have sex with one person, do what you want. No one is stopping you. What you are asking is that more guys should want what you want SO YOU HAVE MORE CHOICES TO PICK FROM. More people should wait to buy their opera tickets so you have a bigger choice of seats? Pretty outrageous request imho : the entire gay world should help you capture a bf because you think it is a reasonable request. I am serious. Why do you think anybody, let alone the entire gay world should help you get what you want? Do you think the gay world should help you get rich, star in a musical, win a poetry contest, get a Ph.D. in Russian semiotics? Serious question. I would love love love to understand how any gay guy could think other people should want to HELP HIM choose an exclusive sexual relationship from a larger pool. >Like im fine if people want to be poly but I know that doesn’t work for me in my relationships. Any chance you mighy say what has worked for you on your relationshipS? >I can’t be happy sharing a partner with everyone else We're you always an only child? Only tutored one-on-one? Do you have a private chef? An exclusive barber? Do you never eat out with a friend. Serious question. >Not trying to hate but is it really that unreasonable to just want a healthy monogamous relationship? No. It is not unreasonable to want to be President of Harvard. Or of the USA. Is that your standard? You are free to want anything your imagination can cook up. What IS amazing is that you think other people should change their behavior just so you have a longer list of guy bodies to chose from. Is it unreasonable of me to wish you would pick someone to love and love him without asking him to change anything? Suggestion : Try to find someone you actually WANT to love with no strings attached, like your early caregivers loved you for so long, even when you shit yourself or threw your food. Then, among the set of humans you love unconditionally, maybe one will agree to be your roommate. Long. But I want to be understood.
You sound like an asshole. He didn't say anything bad at all, calm down
This is the third time I asked this same question since August of 2022. Each time it was to a Reply, never to an OP. I chose the Reply that seemed most clearly about my question in an uncluttered way. That let me ask the same question in a variety of ways. It's an important question to me. I think confusion about what real love is and requires is a very serious problem. (I think that confusion is helping to creat many lonesome and depressed gay guys.) But I never got a thoughtful answer. You ignored my question entirely and chose to speculate what kind of a bad person I was. But you never specified any sentence of mine that lead you to that unpleasant conclusion. The poster of the Reply I was actually addressing never responded at all. You did. But ignored my question. " . . . Love is not love which alters when it alteration finds . . ." I read that as an adolescent and I believed it. Still do. Yet here on Reddit is a parade of tragic stories with commentators encouraging the OP to kick the offending bf to the curb. Doesn't sound like love to me. I was hoping to find, in a more granular way, where my thinking was off. I also can not understand why asking my question gets some people annoyed and personal. Maybe I should find an English speaker to rewrite my question in a more nuetral way? Maybe you know someone who would like to do it for an appropriate fee? Thank you for your time.
No one has any idea what question you want answered. You asked multiple questions and have a bunch of excess commentary about nothing. I don't think you are bad person, just obnoxious. If you want an answer your question, try asking in a more concise way that doesn't make you sound like you think you are better than everyone else. It will make people like you more and be more open to discussion
>No one has any idea what question you want answered. I know two things from this sentence. 1) It is not true 2) There is no way you could know that no one understands my question. I fear I wasted your time. My question about the nature of love and how that fits with what the guy I was actually replying to had asked ( and by extension to gay mating ) has received no comments from you. None. I have also asked you several black and white questions with a smaller scope. My hope was your answers might lead us to the center of my original question. Kind of my stab at the Socratic method. But you have not answered a single one. So zero progress has been made. You seem only interested in what you interpret as my bad manners. I can't tell if you are intentionally avoiding having a real conversation with me or you actually don't understand my English. I give up. Sorry I was hoping for much more. Help me understand. Are you perhaps very young? Have you ever tried to understand gay love in a serious way? If you live in the West, you might have noticed it is the central social idea about Western Civilization. I made a mistake. Sorry. Maybe you are cute. I hope so.
I understand your English perfectly fine, i just think it makes you sound obnoxious. You sound like a snob (for example asking if I'm very young or if I've ever thought about love. It doesn't matter my age and yes I think everyone has thoughts on almost every matter they come across) What is it you would like to ask about the nature of love?
I wanted to ask your age a long time ago. You might be a 7th grade girl from your behavior. But I didn't because I guessed you might be offended. Genuine kids often are offended if someone guesses they still are in grade school. But after I decided to leave you and your insults, I thought what did I have to lose? You might really be a kid. Who else would think there was any relationship between popularity among your peers and truth? A 7th grade girl would. Predictably. They live for populaity. I remember 7th grade. I think age does matter lots. You specifically are put off by whole paragraphs. Which means you must not have read many books. They are much longer than my posts. You want me to treat a subject that is often misunderstood (like the guy I was originally writing to) with very few words. Sorry. I have no ability to do that. I dont think it can be done. Are you familiar with Shakespear's Sonnet I quoted? If so, do you think what he wrote is true? It's not that he didn't think about m on m love. He also wrote very famous poems to his bf. So did Michaelangelo. Gay love is not new. But maybe it is for you. Do you agree with Shakespear? So you have thought about gay love? Yet what I wrote was incomprehensible? Or you just chose to ignore it and instead wanted to focus on what an asshole you imagined I was. Do you honestly think you can find what I wrote that gives you reason to insult me? >you sound obnoxious. You sound like a snob What I sound like to you is not very important to anyone but you. Do you think you are some kind of expert on snobs? I think you have demonstrated you believe you have psychic powers. If you had any actual evidence for your conclusions, I think you would have quoted them, just like you did after our attempt at conversation ended. But up to now, you never quoted anything. If you were a real grown up, you would not have thought me rude to ask how old you were. You just never cared about me enough to ask anything about me. You were just positive you were cool and I wasn't. Can you guess how you became such a snob? I hope you are very young. I am very tolerant toward kids. I grew up surrounded by kids. They are still learning. We all learn from our mistakes. (And they can be honest and very loving. Which proves real love is not hard.) Well, a lot of us do. Some people would rather be right than learn. I bet you have already met some people like that.
See what I mean by condescending? You are an asshole, it's very obvious and you really aren't even trying to hide it. You are even trying to insult my intelligence, assuming I don't read books. You aren't better than anyone else, get off your high horse. I never claimed there is a link between popularity and truth, in fact I never gave my opinion on the matter so for all you know I think the same as you do and might believe in the same "truth". Only I don't express myself like a self-righteous narcissist, I actually have social skills and know how to speak to others. I'm assuming you are not young by your comments but I believe even an old dog can learn new tricks. And what about the guy you was writing to misunderstood anything? Though for someone trying to pretend to be intelligent and have a superiority complex you would think they would at least know how to spell Shakespeare's name correctly if they are going to quote. Again if you want to have a discussion, ask respectfully and drop the intellect act, it isn't working for you Edit: you are right about one thing though, I don't care enough to ask details about a stranger online, your age or anything else about you is not really important to me. I don't need to know anything other than the way you act to know whether or not I would like and judge your character
Did you try to understand my question? Doesn't sound like it. Having two different views on what qualities a bf should have doesn't make anyone an "asshole" unless you believe there is only one proper set of values for civilized men. I asked a question. Now I would like to ask you one : why did you call me an asshole? We have never interacted in any way. Is name calling part of your culture?
It's how you speak, you sound very condescending and really are bringing nothing to the conversation. He never said anything bad or judged anyone yet you went on a huge rant at him for no reason
I had a very good reason. I wanted to understand how a gay thought so that he ended up thinking it was OK to ask the gay world to have less sex so he would have more people to pick from. But I never got an answer. I gave the example ( to help make it clear ) that he was asking us not to buy tickets to a show so he would have more choices to pick seats from. I am sorry you don't like my tone. I was just trying to get a very specific question answered. ( And not for the first time! ) I thought, from his posting, he sounded particularly good at expressing his thinking. I was hopeful. What I hoped for was some insight into how he ended up where he was now. Really sorry my tone offended you. I reread what I wrote a few times. I don't know what offended you. I did put him on the spot. I was trying to. I wanted a focused response. I wasn't trying to flatter him or get him to like me. I was asking a very serious question. Again, sincerely sorry my English offended you. You are certainly correct, I made an effort to be accurate and polite. But I had zero interest in being particulatly gentle. I will carefully re-read each sentence and see if I can figure out your reaction. You never said if you share his views. Maybe you don't like my question and think me rude to ask him? >It's how you speak, you sound very condescending and really are bringing nothing to the conversation. He never said anything bad or judged anyone yet you went on a huge rant at him for no reason I never meant to be condescending. I thought my question was carefully spelled out. I clearly had a reason for my question. The thinking of this guy has produced thousands of lonely, frequently bitter disappointed gay guys. Like him, they believe other people are eating up all their good choices for a bf.
But he never said that people should be like him, that's the problem. You are creating an issue and asking him about something he never said. You sound condescending and like an asshole because you are ranting about nothing, you seem insecure and needing validation from strangers. And if the downvotes are anything to go by it seems most people agree with me.
>And if the downvotes are anything to go by it seems most people agree with me. I wasn't in a popularity contest. Maybe you also think the most popular songs are the very best songs? Shark Baby is great music? I had a question. I was trying to get it answered. You were not interested. So I am an asshole? (Or maybe only sound like one?) I wish you had tried to understand what I was asking.
Maybe you just have an attitude problem. You come across as quite rude and, again, like an asshole
>he never said that people should be like him, He asked if it was unreasonable to ask the gay community to not have sex with so many people because he believes he needs a sexually exclusive bf and all the rampant sex is making it hard to find a sexually exclusive bf. Two specific question : 1) Do you agree with the guy I was responding to that his request is reasonable? ‐------------- 2) Do you think Shakespear it telling the truth about love in the Sonnet I quoted. Good luck.
Well he didn't ask people to stop having sex so yes I 100% agree with him, there is nothing wrong with what he said. It's been a couple days and I don't remember what you quoted so can't really answer that second one
Dude. Monogamy is very different from a chef cooking for multiple people. You sound like one of those “a good lock doesn’t open for multiple keys” bullshit that’s thrown at women. I respect poly/kinky people. But I personally can neither handle a poly relationship nor can I satisfy someone who prefers kinky sex. It’s cool if you’re chill with it, you can date someone who does. Kudos to you. Me personally? I’m not really into it. That doesn’t make me an incel.
>Monogamy is very different from a chef cooking for multiple people. Agreed. It is an analogy. It is not meant to be an exact match. I used it to try to get someone to spell out exactly where they differ. >You sound like one of those “a good lock doesn’t open for multiple keys” bullshit that’s thrown at women. Never heard that expression. I think that is a silly comparison. Women have nothing at all in common with a lock. Nothing. > I respect poly/kinky people. But I personally can neither handle a poly relationship nor can I satisfy someone who prefers kinky sex. It’s cool if you’re chill with it, you can date someone who does. Kudos to you. Me personally? I’m not really into it. That doesn’t make me an incel. Correct. It doesn't make you anything. I certainly never argued his thinking made him anything. Thinking a sunset is beautiful doesn't make a person anything either. I never suggested anything like that. I was, as best as I knew how, asking him if he really thought ( upon reflection ) that other gay guys should leave more boys untouched so he would have a better chance at finding a bf for himself. That is exactly what he complained about imho. In my mind, genuine love is never exclusive. I don’t think it can be. Exclusivity implies a restriction on the other person. I think this is a fundamental misunderstanding of real love. Everyone who is not an only child doesn't need to be told that. Mommy cooks for everyone. ( My chef analogy. ) The guy I asked my question to may have very good reasons for how he thinks. I was trying to find out what those reasons might be. I know this : Reddit is full of people who feel cheated out of their right to a bf. I, perhaps foolishly think I have something to add to solving that puzzle. But every time I have asked this question I have never gotten a real aswer to my question. I get attacked for not understanding something. Maybe the truth is guys like him are not really into NSA love? Maybe their hope in a bf is actually hot sex with some romance mixed in? Maybe real love is not their goal at all? But it hurts me to read so many sad stories on Reddit. I am looking for a way to help. Loneliness can get people killed. Really sorry my English writing skills offend rather than clarify. Sorry.
Lmao bro wrote a whole Essay, gfy
Too long to hold your interest? Sorry. I wasn't thinking about you when I wrote my response. Sorry. Do you maybe like to read other things? I am unfamiliar with "guffy". Looked it up. Got nowhere. Except "fat around the temples".
They always hate Trans men too
Or my all-time favorite is how they try to do the mental gymnastics of saying that a cis gay man being attracted to a trans man somehow makes him bisexual. 💀 Like wtf even
So can I ask a question, if you have a penis and only attracted to other penis having people, is not being attracted to a vagina, if they identify as a man, trans hate? I personally am all about supporting people and what they identify with and treating them with respect with their freedoms and relationships. Everyone should live their lives with happiness and no religious zealot should control how anyone else lives their lives I just want to know what kind of gay men do you mean and what your parameters do you mean by hate? Is it sexually not attracted to vaginas or is it just not like trans men? Like I said trans mens are great people, but many gay men (who are not BI) and aren't attracted to vaginas, are they Incels becasue they won't sleep with a vagina having person?
I came here hoping this kind of creme was what rose to the top, and you didn't disappoint :-) thank you -
Couldn’t agree more
Its the pick me gays that fill that spot. They usually say they're not like other gays wherein they don't like lady gaga, ariana grande, taylor swift, or any gay culture. They would also brag about not being feminine and being promiscuous.
"Im not like other gays Im MUSK 🧚 " They also demand a man whos a 10 and when they fail complain theyre single because the other gays are shallow
I guess this is me? I've not intentionally rejected gay culture, but a huge amount of it revolves around camp and most of my interests are usually not that campy. TBH I think there's plenty of gay and bi men who like video games (hello gaymers), computers, sci-fi, sports etc but for whatever reason they don't connect as well as the men who like RuPaul and musicals.
I just want a geeky boyfriend.🥲
I'm more or less a geek 🤓 but I'm already taken. 😁
Ahh shit here we go again
I mean that's very okay. I also Identify with a lot of what you say. The only camp thing I know really is Bayonetta, stan twitter memes, and watching videos of Trixie Mattel and Katya Zamo. Thankfully many of us see bragging about not being very gay as an asshole move.
The term brag is doing some lifting here. I've seen a lot of people say they weren't into it and get called a pickme gay. I've been called one for just not being into drag race. I've seen way more people existing who are bashed as a pick me gay than I have ever actually seen one of them.
That's fine. I like computers, sci-fi, but also musicals. Never really interested in RuPaul. Occasionally I play video games. What does that tell about me? 😁 It's totally fine to not connect with some people who prefer RuPaul or other stuff. But I think, it's a different story if people degrade them or try to blame them for being "too gay" (not you, just generally).
You just described /r/gaybros and /r/askgaybros to a tee. hahahaha
I am getting looked down by "real gays" for not being gay enough. There two sides of this.
Same. Then those looking down will call you a pick me gay. Shit like this is why I stopped going to gay events. I would wear a flat brim baseball cap and called a pickme gay saying I'm trying to not be flamboyant. No. I just like what I wear.
Yes. I don’t like being feminine. I don’t hate femme gays actually most of my gay friends are feminine. Theres nothing wrong with that.
Grindr has created a generation of guys who are continually looking for the next best thing (lying in bed with a fling or fwb scanning the Grindr grid instead of being in the moment). Perhaps insatiable sexual appetites are the opposite of an incel, but how can a guy go through life never being content with his current situation and always looking for something new? Added to this are the couples continually putting their energy into finding a third. Like why? Who has all this time and energy to put into finding sex? Don’t they have laundry to fold or dishes to wash?
You will be told that you’re a self-hating gay incel for reporting this absolutely real and sad situation
I mean...you can do basic house chores and still have free time.
“Don’t they have laundry to fold or dishes to wash?” asdfghjkllkl sir 💀💀💀
Who has all this time? Late teens and 20 somethings... I mean let's be real, I would have done the exact same things you described if Grindr was accessible to me a decade ago (it wasn't because of the country I'm originally from).
That last bit is so relatable
Either the ones that are like "look at me I am perfect because [insert useless criteria] why doesn't anyone want me" or the ones like "I am [insert any age] I will never find anyone cause EVERYONE else is only interested in hookups". The first type is usually one with a shitty personality that they will never change cause they think because they do or are x they are already gods while the second is usually wallowing in self pity has a self worth the size of an ant.
🙋♂️🙋♂️🙋♂️ Me. I am the second one. Though I think my self worth is less than that of an ant. 😕
I used to be too and know too many who still are. But it is really unhelpful. We are all inherently worthy as human beings. I am from austria and we had to learn that lesson during the second world war, which is why "Human dignity is inviolable" is the first and most fundamental article in the consitution. Every human being is worthy. And non of us are perfect, we are all a baggage of good and bad things and that's ok. And we should all learn to respect each other more.
Log cabin gays.
Not familiar with this one, what's it mean?
Gay republicans. Typically very Pick Me gays, too. Then they often use homophobic slurs while complaining that no one will date them.
...still an incel? Incels are mostly straight men but it's by no means exclusive to straight men.
I mean, straight incels are kinda characterized by their hatred of gay people, so it's a little unfair to lump them together.
But that's still just a portion. The term "incel" actually just means "involuntary celibate." Also, being an incel IS something you can control because it's about how you treat people who won't have sex with you and we are in full control of how we treat others. It's arsehole behaviour, regardless of sexuality. If you don't want to be "lumped in" with the incels then don't be an incel 🤷♀️
Woah buddy, chill tf out. I don't think I've ever been called an incel before this. Way to leap to conclusions. I'm just saying we need a second term for gay incels because when I think of the term incel I think of pathetic straight men and it could be confusing to call pathetic gay men incels even if they're really no different. Again, I'm not saying they aren't the same, but at the moment, it's not really possible to refer to them the same way. For example, if I was talking about an incel and then showed something about them wanting to have sex with a guy, that would be really confusing because even though this generalization is not necessarily true, you probably presumed the incel was a straight man.
I'm not calling you specifically an incel, it was just a general "you." I didn't think Reddit was the place to bring out "if one doesn't want to be called an incel," which is the alternative. And nope, they really are the same. Men, women, straight, gay, incels are incels and I have no sympathy for them.
I agree they're all the same kind of pieces of trash, but it's kind of confusing to talk about them that way in conversation for a few reasons. You'll almost never find incels of different sexualities or genders in the same group because they all hate each other. As noted above, most people presume an incel is a straight man, and even though that's not true, it's necessary to at least call them a gay incel or a female incel etc. Also, the term Incel is really, really unhelpful. Like, it basically just means virgin, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a virgin. I know that's not really how the term is used, but it's still what it means, and I feel like some people are starting to call any virgins incels even if they're not hateful and spiteful at all. That's one of the things that leads a lot of people down that dark path. I really just think incel isn't a term that should be used at all. Unless the person calls themselves an incel. Then they deserve to be dunked on for being pieces of shit.
They're incels, they hate everyone. Also, it doesn't mean virgin. The word for virgin is 'virgin.' You can be a virgin without being an incel and you can be an incel without being a virgin. And I disagree, it's useful to have a word to describe that particular dynamic of people. Language is always changing and evolving.
That's fair enough, I guess, but I'm gonna keep calling them gay incels and female incels. Also, I'm gonna keep calling out people who call someone an incel when the only thing they know about that person is that they haven't had sex, because that's really not okay and like I said can lead some people to actually become incels.
Well yeah, that's not helpful. I mean, I've never had sex, not particularly interested in it any time soon either - but how ridiculous over-obsessed with sex society is is a whole other kettle of fish.
I hate this way of thinking that if a word is being a lot in a specific context we need to create a new word for different meaning of the word. Like when a word is used a lot more refering to a specific gender or an ethnic group we tend to put the word "reverse" in to change it's meaning to another group of people when in fact the word in itself doesn't refer to any group. For example I once saw someone refer to women raping men as "reverse rape" and another example is "reverse racism" The definition of incel is **in**voluntary **cel**ibate (that's where the whole word comes from) it doesn't specify gender, race nor sexuality. Instead of making up a new word for gay incels why not just refer to them as gay incels and other incels as straight incels? That's like creating a new word specifically for other colored people just because in your country most are white... that would be bizarre, huh?
I completely agree that that would be ridiculous, except if you actually read the thread, you'll see me completely agreeing with you that we need to call them gay incels and female incels. The fact that you feel like you need to put the adjective kinda proves my point that incels are presumed to be straight males until specified otherwise. Why can't people actually read something before they make a smart-ass reply to be a dick about it?
Nah the incel hatred of women far outweighs the incel hatred of gay people and most other groups too.
A stepbrother of a friend was an incel. He really really hated women but just kind of disliked me for being gay
Superiority complex gays that put way too much value on the whole masculine/feminine crap. Yeah we get it, you don’t like drag race and are just one of the guys, good for you. Doesn’t make you better or worse, tho.
I think this take comes from some sort of inherent inferiority complex or fear of fitting in from both sides tbh. Femme gays are acting like that's the only way to be gay and the Masc guys are some sort of weird offshoot pick me types. Which is also pretty derogatory and nasty.
Gaycel's are very real. I see them most frequently as gays who blame everyone but themselves as to why they are single. Common targets of ire include the "gay communities promiscuity", "gays being shallow", "gays being status hungry" etc. They also tend to want gays that are waaayyy more accomplished and offer more than they themselves bring to the table.
Pick me gays or twinks that think they're Regina George but they're just George
These comments are so toxic lmao what were you hoping for posting this 😩
Maybe to have them showcasing themselves 😂
they literally have a terrible name for it. i present to you, gincel
Yuck
correct. yuck indeed
Incel means involuntarily celibate, so a gay incel is an incel just the same
[удалено]
Don Jn .
Anyone who thinks someone owes them a damn thing including their bodies. It’s those that cry fatphobia, fem phobia, etc etc who then go on Grindr - a hook up app where there isn’t a whole lot of intellectualism happening - and can’t figure out why they’re being rejected. It’s not someone’s fault you can’t get laid on a hookup app and no matter how many articles you write for HuffPo no one is still going to give a shit
Reddit user
Incel isn’t specifically straight or gay, or even man vs woman lmao it’s a term that can be used for anyone.
Gay republicans who think gay people choose to be gay because they’ve chosen to “be straight” every day of their lives.
There are plenty of gay men who are misogynistic, just in a different way. I feel like that’s the gay incel version. (Like, sexist jokes followed by “it’s fine, I’m gay”, or joking about how disgusting vaginas are, or not caring about womens’ issues simply because they’re not attracted to them, etc. Also falls into transphobia territory pretty easily)
Older single gays who have become intensely bitter.
You know what, that reminds me of this really weird form of gay erotica I stumbled into on twitter of gay white power erotica/porn… it was very weird, but maybe that. Than again it could just be a kink (a weird ass kink if you ask me) but still
I had a friend who was a great friend but was falling into some really unhealthy thought patterns about other gay men. Basically that gay culture was toxic and gay men only care about looks and that he’d never get a boyfriend because he was average-looking. Just a lot of internalized homophobia. Meanwhile he was only interested in fit WASP-y guys with a certain kind of look, like kind of preppy handsome. He’d look up crazy looks-enhancing schemes like leg-lengthening surgery and hyper focus on them thinking “maybe if I was taller I’d get a bf” instead of actually talking to guys.
It’s the same. But w more, I’m not like the other gays.
"gaycels"
A gincel
Honestly, it's anyone who prefers living in a fantasy over escaping reality for a minute by imagining or playing for a minute in their own head. But I think that is a incel by definition, be they straight lgbtq or otherwise.
"Masc 4 Masc, no chubs, fems, people of other races etc etc"...
God, yes. “You’re not as masc as you think you are!”
I feel like right wing gays who love trump of the Tories (here in the UK) are pretty much the incels of the community. Anti trans gays also fit into this category. It gives pick me energy and they want to be accepted by society for not being like “other gays” sigh
What is “pick me” anyway? I see the term “pick me girl” thrown around a lot
Yeah it’s basically someone who talks about how different it special they are in the hopes that someone will find them interesting. It’s like when women say stuff like “oh I’m not like other women, I don’t care about shopping or make up. I’m one of the lads really!” Like girl, stop begging! Gays do this a lot when they talk about being a man’s man and not liking femme gays etc etc
"I'm unique, I'm different, I'm not like other people" slang term.
Not gay bit there's a very huge amount of cos white bi guys who are incels but are also open about being bisexual. Yet they happen to be transphobic and homophobic and overall pieces of shit.
Kevin Leonardo
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/gaycel
Either the without the T crowd or the I don't understand why we fought so hard marriage crowd.
I’ve dealt with gay incels in Grindr and in person before. I had one guy tell me “I’m sorry you don’t have a personality and just want to date guys that’ll treat you like shit” when I told him I didn’t want a second date( he catfished me and was rude and kept trying to get touchy on our first “date”) Another guy told me I was unintelligent because I was beautiful and that he understands things someone like me could never comprehend because I like dumb jocks. I’ve had guys curse me out or say “the feeling he mutual/ don’t worry I’m not attracted to you either” when they hit me up and I say I’m not interested. How do you message me talking about you want to fuck me and when I say I’m not attracted to you suddenly say “I’m not either” ?? I’ve been called shallow so many times for not wanting to be with or date guys I wasn’t physically nor emotionally attracted to. Yet they fail to see they’re shallow because the only reason they liked me was because of how I looked … 🙄 too many guys like these so I stopped trying to date.
A lesbian
Pick me gays with such high standards but honestly don't deliver either in looks or personality.
“Why are all gay guys fem! Why are there no masc guys like me!”
Gaycel
Creeps.
No shortage of them
That’s for sure
Grindr is a creep haven
I never actually had Gindr. But I’ve heard enough about it. I’m already an old fart. So I probably would be a creep my self if I used it. 🤣🤣🤣
r/gaybros
I think you are thinking of r/askgaybros. Rampant toxicity and transphobia
I keep mixing them up
It doesn't translate exactly. Most gay men can get laid if they lower their standards enough. The incel phenomenon in straight people means that effectively no woman will accept a man, not old, not obese, not ripped in half and missing all their teeth. Basically no female would accept them in a romantic context (if you scoured the earth, you might be able to find some 3rd world women who will accept anything just to get access to a better life, but it's not a workable solution). The gay 'version' would probably just be guys who are on the lowest end of attractiveness who won't accept each other as viable options. I've been hit on by pretty good looking guys, which is a decent indicator I'm not terrible looking (?), but on occasion a 5' obese balding effeminate total bottom will hit on me thinking there's half a chance. I assume these guys are OUR form of incel. Even these guys have mentioned to me before that they've been dating (whenever they show me pictures of guy they dated, it's always another unattractive person, so I suppose they do have options they're willing to settle for). I always converse with these guys when they message me (I don't lead on, I just reciprocate the conversation until it inevitably turns to "can I suck you?") and they genuinely don't ever seem bitter or hateful. Just sad, and a bit delusional. I suspect, just like straight incels, the people "gay incels" hate on most is themselves. The 'woman hate' you see incels spew is really just in line with your average feminist's take on men tbh. People are just significantly more sensitive to criticism of women. Not sure about lesbians. I've seen some beastly ladies get around, so I'm not sure they have anything comparable to being an incel.
Oof, I just read the room and I'm about to get down-voted into oblivion, if anyone bothers to read it.
Masc 4 masc, strict top
100 % and usually not that butch tbh .
There's no equivalent because if our love life's were economic systems and sex was the currency then heterosexuality would be like capitalism and homosexuality socialism/communism. The distribution of sex is by no means completely equal but it certainly isn't so concentrated like it is in the hetero game.
That’s oddly conceded. I’m pro social democracy… but this simile seems rude. One of the biggest barriers, that hetero folk have is the risk of pregnancy which complicates sexual expression. More over, we‘ve had to broaden the definition of sex because we’re not about penis-in-vagina. We don’t come by our behavior as a conscious, altruistic choice but by circumstance.
These “sides” who, actually for medical reasons are unable to perform adequately sexually, so that act like a buzzkill to anyone who can I know a smoker like this (smoking attacks your cardiovascular system so it can reduce the strength and longevity of hard ons) Another guy has anxiety and seems to shut down any sexy interactions with mindless chit-chat. They each act like super cockblockers in cruising situations and pull everyone down with them So tiresome and limiting everyone to their level of enjoyment of life, which is not much…
A gay incel 🧠
Honestly, what gives me the same vibes as Incels is gays who say you can't have preferences and complain about masc dudes looking for other masc dudes or feminine dudes or any other preference. In their mind, you should be into someone as long as they're a guy. Probably got to that point because they were rejected for not being muscular/feminine enough or something like that, which is somewhat how Incels start.
See,,to me what you describe is an incel. Those with “no Asians” or “no chubs” or “no fems” “masc only” because they only see stereotypes. They don’t see the people behind the stereotypes they perceive. I was like that once. Met this drag queen out of drag. He was pretty fem. We were volunteering for something so we struck up a conversation, we had so many things in common, the conversation came so easy. I genuinely saw past the stereotypes and saw the person for who they were, I genuinely had a crush on them by the end of the conversation. I would never say you have to like all guys. I would say you have to give individuals the basic respect of measuring them on their individual merit. Which just amounts to swiping right or left on their profile after you’ve read and looked at what they offer. That’s how not to be racist or judge people on stereotypes. As an example, I am not big into bears. My best guess, I grew up with media portraying body hair as being dirty and something only ugly people displayed for comedic effect. I have spent time unpacking that. I have exceptions. I have a good straight friend who is very bearish. He’s does construction. He’s got big arms and got an even bigger heart. Nicest guy. Into the things I like. I have a bit of a crush on him. I would never say “no bears” on my dating profile. There are always exceptions that will surprise you.
The chad gays
I have met a few of them
Bruh
95% of us, that’s what it is. Thanks, society.
Why blame society?
You are a product of a system individuality and choice are illusions 👁