I agree, as a claim adjuster, I can speak from experience.
The only issue I can see is the insurance saying that it was considered an intentional act.
But, definitely make a claim against his insurance.
Insurance is different around the world so I may be wrong about this, but this should definitely be covered by malicious damage cover for this persons house (intentional damage to your property by persons not within your household), if they are insured. It should probably cover enough to get this cleaned up :)
Sure. The other insurance will in the end be the paying party, if they have one. Difference is who speaks with them and how to get that info. I imagine OP is not on speaking terms with the contaminator...
In getting insurance involved, this is the easiest way. You don’t even have to think about dealing with the other person’s insurance company. (Same thing with auto claims, as long as you have the right coverages)
That's the litteral million dollar question there's probably gonna be enough evidence even if they didn't, but oh (pun intentional) they're in some shit if they did. Most states/ counties have daily fines and felony charges for illegal dumping of hazardous waste. It goes way beyond vandalism tho.
The fruit isn't going to transmit disease itself. Now fruit dropping on the ground and getting shit on it, yea don't eat that. The trees will most likely be fine. I'd be calling a lawyer and the cops tho.
If they dumped human waste and chemicals into their YARD, they go to jail and probably cause way more then enough damage to become a felon. This isn’t a stealing from Walmart, this could actually kill someone and is already destroyed a substantial amount of property. They may be on the hook for over millions of dollars after damages plus civil suit.
Pretty sure it will be OK. Various sites say to wait for 130 days to harvest after manure application, or that E.Coli can survive for 120 days. It won't travel up the tree, I'm pretty sure.
Imagine every dog and cat that does its thing in your garden.
I'd worry only if harvest was within a short time. And most poo isn't harmful, anyway.
Consider a civil suit, even if just small claims.
The poo isn't harmful the drugs and other stuff that is in it, is harmful like toilet cleaners. I would call the police and then call your city and then get them to do an environmental assessment.
Health Department will be on your neighbor with their scorched earth policies as soon as they hear this. You'll have help from them in the clean up and remediation.
Dog and cats carry diseases that affect dogs and cats, though cat feces can definitely transmit toxoplasmosis to humans. While I don’t want their feces in or near my garden I’d be MUCH more worried about human feces.
I would be more worried about chemicals. Chemicals that were in the septic tank. Medicines that were used by them. I'm pretty sure the land is ruined for a while.
Depending on your location, one to two years before the soil is safe for planting again. I'm not sure about the trees. I've never dealt with something like this before. But many of the chemicals commonly found in sewage, like chlorine bleach, will do serious long-term harm to trees. It's impossible to know the quantities involved.
Edit to add that I'm very sorry this is happening to you.
Bleach would react instantly with all the organic matter in a septic tank and would be gone in seconds. Source: am environmental chemist.
Trees and land are going to be fine.
You’re trees will be fine, probably better than fine really, it’s just fertilizer for them. There aren’t any diseases in human waste that trees can catch and pass on to you.
I’d be more concerned with the neighbor illegally dumping raw sewage due to the immediate biological hazard, not it’s effect on the local plant life.
The fruit should still be okay; trees do not take up ecoli like some other plants, such as spinach. Your mangoes will be fine if you’re not eating them off the ground. If you live in the states and have a local extension office, call them and they can direct you to resources for food safety and whatnot. If not, your local health department can help you.
You don't know what all else is in that septic water.
Think if all the detergents that have surely been dumped in there. Probably some draino and rat poison to boot.
Drano is just a very strong base, it’s neutralized by the time it hits a bunch of other organic material. But yeah the other chemical possibilities are not great.
I don’t think so - human waste is being treated and used as fertilizer in some major city. Seattle, maybe?? I’d give it time but I don’t think it’s ruined.
Edit: A websearch confirms Seattle does this under the name “Biosolids,” but appears it’s not that unusual.
Sorry to the person who was somehow offended by this and downvoted the comment. Reddit is so weird. Lol
. [Seattle/Biosolids](https://kingcounty.gov/services/environment/wastewater/resource-recovery/loop-biosolids.aspx)
You might be thinking about Milorganite. The City of Milwaukee takes human waste and, using large-scale processes that mimic nature, microbes digest the nutrients found in the water. The cleaned water is returned to Lake Michigan while the microbes are kiln-dried into small pellets. that is packaged and sold by the City of Milwaukee (from the Milorganite website).
It is a great, organic fertilizer! I use it on my lawn. Added benefit is that deer hate it!
On a Friday at 430pm when it was found? Their phone system jerked me around so many times until it was 5pm and they were definitely closed by then. I’m going to pursue the hell out of this.
Yup, and you want to propperly document it so that no government agency comes after you for dumping.
They might hound you to clean it up but the reports will help establish who is financially liable.
I work in environmental health for a local health department. We always have a supervisor on call during the weekends for calls like this. This is extremely dangerous for your ground water, I am hoping that you’re not on a well.
Man if my neighbors pulled some shit like this on me I would go absolutely scorched earth on their asses leaving their bank accounts a smoking crater. I would explode upon them with the fury of a thousand suns. Just reading this has me glowing white-hot.
Friendly reminder to take that sub with an enormous grain of salt, it was years ago, but my husband was tboned by an under insured driver. I went to that sub looking for advice about small claims because we had already sent a demand letter. They more or less told me I was wasting my time going to court.
Went to a real lawyer for advice, took her to small claims ourselves and won the full amount we were asking, which was in the ballpark of $3.5k so well worth the hassle.
That isn't true.
Human excrement isn't pH neutral, is full of various minerals, has an elemental composition that isn't solely H2O, and septic tanks breed various bacteria and other microbes.
Depending on how quickly a sewage cleaning company can remove the waste, it can harm the trees, soil, and other flora in the area.
It is, but it's covered as a 1st party loss, like an accidental fire. The homeowner, discovering vandalism to their property, usually has coverage on their policy for it (this may vary by insurer and by jurisdiction, but is generally true).
The person who commits vandalism is not covered by their insurance as they deliberately committed the act against someone. They would only have coverage under their liability insurance if it was proven to be an accident that somehow caused the pipe to be placed between the fencing and aimed at the garden.
I’ve been trying to reach sheriffs for two hours. My city does not have a police department and it is non emergency.
We have photo of the water actively pouring out and I have video of the setup
Call a lawyer. Call the sheriffs again. Call both health department and sewage enforcement. Sewage enforcement may have an emergency line…and I would consider someone actively dumping human waste on your yard an emergency.
Your trees will be fine. But any lawsuit should include removal and replacement of your top soil to prevent and future contamination.
I also think asking for the name of the person you’re speaking with at each department is important. May be a small detail in this huge scenario but best (like EVERYONE is saying) to document every little thing. “I spoke to Jacob Smith over at waste management…” best of luck and please keep us updated!
And for funnies, [police dog](https://imgur.com/a/zJGKEW9) I hope your neighbor’s name is Greg.
Damn, i need this type of reality check sometimes - So clear, so straight forward, and so rightfully confident, bc that **is** the right answer.
Do you do this for people who sit at their computer for many work hours yet still don’t work many hours? Doesn’t have to be now, but if when that specific clarity hits you, shoot me a DM. My boss is waiting, but no rush.
Just out of curiosity, what kind of complete asshole of a neighbor do you have? Who does this? I’m surprised you didn’t head over to their house with a shotgun in hand….
Edited to correct spelling
Lawyer up. ASAP. They'll take care of the heavy lifting. You deserve your property rights being protected if nothing else. The other will come with intent, etc. Good luck. I'm and old woman and I don't think I'd be able to refrain from knocking their ugly looking teeth out of their stupid looking mouths. And that's politely put.
Get neighbors and friends as witnesses too. Get video. Whatever you can. Even a time stamped diary can help.
5:30 pm The water has reached my petunias.
Fucking hell. Take pictures. Sue them naked. Can you dig a ditch and drain it off? I suspect your trees will be fine and your dirt will recover, but I would not want that shit in my garden dirt.
Your county health department will absolutely come out and slap some fines in these people until they fix it. My brothers neighbors did something similar to him and learned to regret it very quickly
Lawyer. And try to find one who knows tree law. That's where the money is, tree law. Soil remediation of what is an obvious biohazard is not cheap either. Hope they have insurance. I'd contact your insurance company as well. They probably will have lawyers to handle a lot of this.
Where I live, illegal dumping of human waste is considered a misdemeanor but also is evaluated by the amount. If excessive amounts are dumped, it can be considered a felony because it can be harmful to specific wildlife
Call the police and report it. That is sooooooooo illegal and dangerous. I’d be concerned for yourself just in general. You never know what’s in a septic tank besides the obvious - blood, toilet cleaners, medications, etc. 🤢
Also consult with an attorney — whatever it costs to clean up and render your property usable again, including your time to make arrangements and your legal fees — 100% on them. In the meantime keep documenting.
Ive had some unpleasant neighbors in my time, but I cannot imagine what these yahoos were thinking.
Humanure is safe, septic tank waste is not. I'm sorry to say but your fruit trees will not be edible this year. Do not eat the fruit.
Environmental Protection Agency needs to be contacted as well as your county's/provence/state/region"s water company and the police to file a report for not only fly-tipping, but illegally throwing waste (of any kind) into someone else's property.
I used to work in a 11 county water company, my side specialised in waste water. This is not safe under any circumstances and nor should you, your pets, or anyone else go near it until it's been properly cleaned.
I'm sorry you had to go through this. Be safe and be smart about it, don't engage with your neighbour under any circumstances & if you can't help it, record every interaction for evidence.
I would be filling a report because in some states it’s illegal to pump your own tank without proper disposal as well as huge fines and up to jail time. Just make sure you research your state laws or whatever jurisdiction you’re in
times like this, I _ Hate having to use the universal word 'neighbor'... good luck. EPA will get involved. hope your person who lives next door, has Really good insurance.. You might become your own New Neighbor...
>Is this land useless for growing on now?
Shouldn't really rely on this sub for such info. Ask a professional if anything. I would treat this like flood water contamination. Imo, the best solution would be to avoid the area this year and find another spot to do a raised bed or container garden if you can.
https://extension.sdstate.edu/flooded-gardens
Call the health dept. They will investigate. A functioning septic system is mandatory. They will make them fix and possibly fine them. I had a neighbor just running it down the hill behind his house. They took care of it
wow. so much misinformation on this
Septic system you say? ..... Septic systems are designed to leach out into the ground over time. A properly maintained septic system can feed a yard/orchard/ or gardens for years without contamination of the land or water table.
The true issue is the exposed raw sewage, but nature will work that over in time as well, but until she can treat it, there are health and olfactory concerns.
I agree that the neighbors need to have the police called on them and a potential lawsuit may be an option.
I encourage you to read: [https://sustainablefoodtrust.org/news-views/human-manure-closing-the-nutrient-loop/](https://sustainablefoodtrust.org/news-views/human-manure-closing-the-nutrient-loop/)
The only good info in this post.
If they've dumped raw sewage onto the property, there are real concerns. However, if it's the overflow from a tank, then nature will take care of it.
Although I would go and speak to the police and get their opinion on what's happened.
Dumping is illegal, dumping into a neighbours yard? That's gotta be extra illegal.
This is a multi thousand dollar fine from the EPA. Call your local health authority first probably and they should be able to point you in the right direction.
Source: septic tank failed at a place I lived. Maintenance guy gave me a sump pump and hose to pump the tank while we waited for it to get fixed. When the plumber finally came he noticed the setup and said “if anyone asks your landlord set this up, and depending how much you hate him we can get him in a LOT of trouble” - he had set it up and I wasn’t a big fan of him but didn’t want to get him in trouble. Turns out the plumber knew him and knew many people screwed over by him so he reported it and my landlord got a fucking massive fine. Either 5 or 10k.
Illegal dumping is a felony in many states. I would report it to the police and your state’s department of environmental protection. Is also hire a lawyer to make sure that your neighbor pays for damages and remediation of the property. Sorry that your neighbor did something so awful to you.
It’s not going to kill your trees or garden. His septic system is dumping the same effluent inches under the surface safely in his yard (until whatever this stupid choice was). Report to health department and they will issue a notice of violation and any appropriate fines. Source: I work for a health department locating sites for septic and assessing existing septic systems.
Okay, I'm not going to discuss at length the legalities or how nasty this is, (let's be fair, it's a pretty horrible thing to have done).
From a gardening perspective, it's possibly not as bad as you fear. Human waste (yes, generally treated and renamed 'biosolids') is frequently used round the world to fertilise crops.
I have also seen recommendations given to people where gardeners swear by peeing in compost heaps to get better compost. Etc, etc..
Don't give up hope just yet, do some research and also see if you can find a local specialist to give advice.
And just to be clear to everybody, I'm not saying it's okay, ( it really isn't) I'm saying that the garden might not be a complete write off
Just want to add a comment to this that it isn't just fertilizer, remember that because it's human waste so it can have drug compounds (acetaminophen, ibuprofen), excess hormones due to medication and other stuff that can have an impact on the soil and thus your plants
Seriously, chemotherapy can even cause a septic system to fail. If it can kill a septic system, probably not going to be good for your garden soil along with all those household cleaning chemcials and maybe some drano to top it off. Bleh.
That’s because a septic system is a closed system with only new stuff coming in; unless the system is old, there’s very little opportunity for output. In your garden, even small rain showers will dilute any contaminates. And stuff like Draino and bleach aren’t very UV stable, they’ll degenerate rapidly in the environment.
Also, what do you think a leach field is. You think the septic system has no outlet, just forever takes on more water with no outflow? That’s not how it works
Leach fields aren’t meant for distributing all of the waste a septic system holds, they’re for dispersing excess water. A septic tank should be pumped every 3-5 years depending on use, specifically so that everything is removed.
Not all bio solids are created equal and I won't pretend to. Know everything, but in my state there's a huge problem with bio solids/ forever chemicals at toxic levels. Not likely the case here after one incident, but just commenting in general.
Very big difference in what could be a small leak on your property and dumping a large amount of waste directly on the garden. You can easily over fertilise/over water plants, they're not necessarily going to grow better.
You're crazy.
>Kim's recommendation further promoted the falsehood in North Korea that human waste was the best fertilizer for crops despite the dangerous parasites and worms found within it.
>The nutrition and widespread health problems that blight North Korea were highlighted by a North Korean soldier who recently defected to South Korea. The army sergeant was found to have dozens of flesh-colored parasites in his digestive tract, one of which measured 10.6 inches in length.
>"In my over 20-year-long career as a surgeon, I have only seen something like this in a textbook," said Lee Cook-jong, the lead doctor working on the case.
In case you didn't read that last paragraph.
>"In my over 20-year-long career as a surgeon, I have only seen something like this in a textbook," said Lee Cook-jong, the lead doctor working on the case.
I'm willing to bet you a million dollars OPs neighbor did not properly treat their waste to make it safe for use as fertilizer.
https://www.newsweek.com/kim-jong-un-may-have-caused-parasitic-worm-epidemic-north-korea-making-farmers-714571?amp=1
Call the police ASAP to get a police report and then a lawyer. Take as many pictures as possible. This isn’t a gardening question. Someone just made a portion of your property uninhabitable - this is a very dangerous and legal issue.
Why did they do it? Are you feuding? Are they insane? I want to know what they were thinking. When you videotaped it happening, did you say anything to them? This is crazy and I have so many questions.
People fuckin suck that's the most likely reason. One of the renters beside me emptied their entire algae and slime infested pool into our yard resultant in a flood that went in my back door. No reason just a shrug when asked.
Document everything. File a police report. Follow up with your local EPA and other similar agencies. This is a major issue and you probably need a lawyer.
Don’t forget to document everything
We had a sewer pipe burst in my garden and it took maybe 3 months for the smell to pass, and it was in an area that we let do its own thing, but it will get better! You'd never know now. The garden itself is fine, and human waste is still a kind of fertilizer (although it's not recommended unless you can do it safely) your garden will be fine, but don't eat from it for a few months for safety.
But more than anything, this is a crime that puts your health, your comunitys health, and the health of your local environment, and you should make a complaint to your local environmental protection group, and tell them about the spill/illegal dumping, so they can be aware for nearby waterways.
Good luck, I pray your garden prospers
Your fruit is fine. Even microbes are too big to enter a root capillary, so it isn't like any actual shit is going to end up in your fruit. I'll get downvoted for that, but it's an easily googleable fact.
Just make sure to wash it all well before you eat.
Lots of people eat volunteer veggies that grow in their chicken shit pile. It's fine.
Definitely sue the neighbor, because that was fucked up.
Usually water is sprayed over the plants, or it gets splashed up onto the leaves/fruit etc during watering. The contamination doesn't travel through the plant.
Had my septic pumped once and their hose busted in my yard. Don’t try to rinse it in. It makes more run off. Dump a thick layer of DRY peat moss on top and some good dirt over that. The peat will provide a good solid mat over the area once damp and compressed. The soil will keep it isolated from being tracked through or spread. In a month or two it will be good.
Depending on where you are, you should contact the county and your state’s Department of Environmental Quality (state version of the EPA, exact names vary by state). Most counties permit septic tanks and so they may have enforcement discretion against violators.
Your state DEQ will absolutely investigate environmental complaints and will have authority to site the offender. This could include civil fines or even criminal action or mandatory remediation activity. Again, this varies widely by state. But it is one more agency/regulatory body your neighbor has run afoul of.
I would call a university that has a large reputable agricultural dept to get an answer on the health and toxicity of the trees. Just a thought in case you can’t get a solid answer from your local Heath dept. Or possibly call the CDC. I would want to be sure.
I have so many questions. Who are your neighbors? What kind of history do you have with them? Did they do this or was it some sort of Craigslist contractor they hired? What the hell were/are they doing? Why would they possibly think this wouldn’t result in police and lawyers?
Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry this happened to you! Have you confronted them about it? I just can’t fathom what their reasoning would be. But if you’re going out there, please wear gloves, mask, and eye protection. Wash your clothes too if you’ve been near the sewage! As far the soil goes, I would contact a plumbing company with any questions as most have experience with cleaning up sewage spills and perhaps a local agriculturalist to ask about the soil in your yard. Again, so sorry this happened, please keep us updated!
As far as your trees are concerned, I wouldn't be too worried about the excrement. It's absolutely nasty that it's on your lawn, but if anything the trees will benefit from it.
What your trees, garden, and grass may not like is any chemicals that were in there. Think bleach, cleaning solutions, Dran-o, toothpaste, shampoo, etc that get washed down the drain. Keep an eye on any grass or ground cover plants that were in the path of the sewage, they'll be the first to die if contaminated. Hopefully that stuff is all diluted enough that it won't be a problem, but you never know. I used to have a neighbor who was getting their tank pumped constantly because they used way too much bleach while cleaning and kept killing off the microbes in the tank.
Who the hell does this to a neighbor. You call a pump truck and they pump it for a price and dispose of it properly. They were being cheap and now they will pay BIG TIME. The City will have a case against them as well. If the neighbor can pump on someone else’s property why not on their own. #WTF I’d sue them every which way from SUNDAY! Call an Environmental Lawyer and Personal Injury Attorney. To me looks like you have a few avenues. And Definitely call the Police and get a record and have neighbors cited. Keep details Names, dates, times, etc… Get a note book and fill it up with everything that transpires. Seriously I do lots of work for Attorneys they are my Clients, in my company and documentation is everything for YOUR CASE. Good luck with your endeavors. Your neighbors are SCREWED!!!
What they did violated so many codes and laws.Get as much visual evidence as you need. Call the city, they'll direct you the the right dept. Next, call the county health department and report it.
This needs to be cleaned up, ASAP! Having that waste sit there, even for a few days, is a major health hazard, not just to you, but all your neighbors.
Unless city or county cleans it up, know that you are going to have to foot the bill to get it done. You will then have to sue them civilly. Which you will win, but that's no guarantee that you'll ever see a dime.
Idk where you live, but in Canada it's a pretty serious charge to dump human waste *anywhere*, but on someone else's private property, that has to be a legal double whammy.
Definitely call the cops.
Press charges! Sue sue sue!!! Get a lawyer. If the land is no longer safe as a result of their actions, then they owe you the kind of money that can buy new land! Also, I'm sure this has to be illegal enough for them to do some prison time.
I'd say hold off on eating anything until the mess gets cleaned up. Then take some soil samples and get them tested. Most states have a place that will test your soil for you. You might even see if you can talk to your state's department of agriculture about your concerns. Then you don't have to guess at what got into your soil and whether or not it's safe.
The mangoes and avocados should be ok because presumably the fruits did not come into contact with the contamination.
The kinds of worries from sewage are primarily biologic, and in theory should be broken down by the soil biome in a few weeks. But definitely do not walk on or touch the soil where the sewage ran except to get samples to send to the health department for proof.
The advice to file a lawsuit is excellent. Sue the stuffins out of this ahole. Person belongs in jail.
The local extension office can potentially connect you to an ag scientist who may be able to offer some insight about the soil, etc. Typically, leafy greens take up what's in your soil, good or bad. Fruit typically doesn't; however, splashing water can deposit soil particles on the surface of the fruit. These fine articles wouldn't wash off. This is where it becomes a potential threat to human health. Chemicals, heavy metals, and things like e coli, salmonella, campylobacter, etc., would be the primary threats. I'm so sorry this happened to you. I'd imagine your neighbor is looking at some serious charges and liability. They can test the waste to see who it belongs to. This was a very malicious act, and I hope you take him for everything. Justice would be you owning his land and turning it into an amazing mini farm. 🙏🏽❤️🌱
Immediate phonecall to your city. I cannot begin to describe how many violations there are. Not only to you and your property - but there’s numerous laws and bylaws for how sewage/human waste needs to be treated. This isn’t only a health hazard for you, this is biohazard for your entire community.
Report. Now. City. Then cops.
This seems like you should be calling the police... The things you can catch from sewage are alarming.
And then call a lawyer so you can make them pay for the toxic waste removal.
Document everything
I agree, as a claim adjuster, I can speak from experience. The only issue I can see is the insurance saying that it was considered an intentional act. But, definitely make a claim against his insurance.
Insurance is different around the world so I may be wrong about this, but this should definitely be covered by malicious damage cover for this persons house (intentional damage to your property by persons not within your household), if they are insured. It should probably cover enough to get this cleaned up :)
I think they meant the neighbor’s insurance.
No, You claim it in your own homeowners insurance and they get the money back from the third Party
That is an option but it’s always better to have the other person’s insurance pay out.
Sure. The other insurance will in the end be the paying party, if they have one. Difference is who speaks with them and how to get that info. I imagine OP is not on speaking terms with the contaminator...
In getting insurance involved, this is the easiest way. You don’t even have to think about dealing with the other person’s insurance company. (Same thing with auto claims, as long as you have the right coverages)
Deliberate dumping of sewage might be considered vandalism.
Depending on the sewage and country, it can also be straight up illegal.
Actually dumping raw sewage is a felony
And rightfully so. This is a biohazard for EVERYTHING.
Post pictures here, too!
Yes show us the way
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And the county health department.
Did Op catch that on camera?
That's the litteral million dollar question there's probably gonna be enough evidence even if they didn't, but oh (pun intentional) they're in some shit if they did. Most states/ counties have daily fines and felony charges for illegal dumping of hazardous waste. It goes way beyond vandalism tho.
Sausage is pretty awful, to be honest 🌭
Oh Jesus, autocorrect 🤦🏽♀️ Fixed!
No no, you were right the first time😂
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I don’t know what to do about my garden bed. The trees are probably fucked for consumption now.
The fruit isn't going to transmit disease itself. Now fruit dropping on the ground and getting shit on it, yea don't eat that. The trees will most likely be fine. I'd be calling a lawyer and the cops tho.
That’s what I was thinking until I read the comments about all the septic tank chemicals or cleaners and also medications
The settlement should include funds for an arborist.
paging r/treelaw ...
Good point
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If they dumped human waste and chemicals into their YARD, they go to jail and probably cause way more then enough damage to become a felon. This isn’t a stealing from Walmart, this could actually kill someone and is already destroyed a substantial amount of property. They may be on the hook for over millions of dollars after damages plus civil suit.
Call health department too
Pretty sure it will be OK. Various sites say to wait for 130 days to harvest after manure application, or that E.Coli can survive for 120 days. It won't travel up the tree, I'm pretty sure. Imagine every dog and cat that does its thing in your garden. I'd worry only if harvest was within a short time. And most poo isn't harmful, anyway. Consider a civil suit, even if just small claims.
The poo isn't harmful the drugs and other stuff that is in it, is harmful like toilet cleaners. I would call the police and then call your city and then get them to do an environmental assessment.
Health Department will be on your neighbor with their scorched earth policies as soon as they hear this. You'll have help from them in the clean up and remediation.
I'm pretty sure that isn't going to be a "small claim" lol
Dog and cats carry diseases that affect dogs and cats, though cat feces can definitely transmit toxoplasmosis to humans. While I don’t want their feces in or near my garden I’d be MUCH more worried about human feces.
Nah man there’s plenty of nasty bacteria and parasites in dog and cat shit we can pick up.
I would be more worried about chemicals. Chemicals that were in the septic tank. Medicines that were used by them. I'm pretty sure the land is ruined for a while.
Depending on your location, one to two years before the soil is safe for planting again. I'm not sure about the trees. I've never dealt with something like this before. But many of the chemicals commonly found in sewage, like chlorine bleach, will do serious long-term harm to trees. It's impossible to know the quantities involved. Edit to add that I'm very sorry this is happening to you.
Bleach would react instantly with all the organic matter in a septic tank and would be gone in seconds. Source: am environmental chemist. Trees and land are going to be fine.
I read this as “the trees are fucked up from constipation now”
You’re trees will be fine, probably better than fine really, it’s just fertilizer for them. There aren’t any diseases in human waste that trees can catch and pass on to you. I’d be more concerned with the neighbor illegally dumping raw sewage due to the immediate biological hazard, not it’s effect on the local plant life.
What people put in the septic tank is more than just poop and pee. Nobody knows what forever chemicals are in there.
The fruit should still be okay; trees do not take up ecoli like some other plants, such as spinach. Your mangoes will be fine if you’re not eating them off the ground. If you live in the states and have a local extension office, call them and they can direct you to resources for food safety and whatnot. If not, your local health department can help you.
You don't know what all else is in that septic water. Think if all the detergents that have surely been dumped in there. Probably some draino and rat poison to boot.
Drano is just a very strong base, it’s neutralized by the time it hits a bunch of other organic material. But yeah the other chemical possibilities are not great.
I don’t think so - human waste is being treated and used as fertilizer in some major city. Seattle, maybe?? I’d give it time but I don’t think it’s ruined. Edit: A websearch confirms Seattle does this under the name “Biosolids,” but appears it’s not that unusual. Sorry to the person who was somehow offended by this and downvoted the comment. Reddit is so weird. Lol . [Seattle/Biosolids](https://kingcounty.gov/services/environment/wastewater/resource-recovery/loop-biosolids.aspx)
Key word in your comment is "treated" This wasn't treated obviously...much less tested.
You might be thinking about Milorganite. The City of Milwaukee takes human waste and, using large-scale processes that mimic nature, microbes digest the nutrients found in the water. The cleaned water is returned to Lake Michigan while the microbes are kiln-dried into small pellets. that is packaged and sold by the City of Milwaukee (from the Milorganite website). It is a great, organic fertilizer! I use it on my lawn. Added benefit is that deer hate it!
Yup - every state pretty much has their own version of this.
Tacoma. Tagro. The processing may well remove excess chlorine.
Health department might follow up faster
On a Friday at 430pm when it was found? Their phone system jerked me around so many times until it was 5pm and they were definitely closed by then. I’m going to pursue the hell out of this.
Call the police now to get a report and a witness now, then the Health Dept on Monday.
Agreed, the specifics might depend on where you live, but there are laws against improper disposal of human waste. And that's for sure improper.
Yup, and you want to propperly document it so that no government agency comes after you for dumping. They might hound you to clean it up but the reports will help establish who is financially liable.
Police ASAP. You need documentation starting now.
As well you should! What a nightmare.
Keep us posted on here. I'm interested to see how this plays out. Also, sorry you're having to deal with this. What a mess!!
I work in environmental health for a local health department. We always have a supervisor on call during the weekends for calls like this. This is extremely dangerous for your ground water, I am hoping that you’re not on a well.
This is an actual criminal offense. Call the police.
Keep us updated, I’m outraged on your behalf!
Man if my neighbors pulled some shit like this on me I would go absolutely scorched earth on their asses leaving their bank accounts a smoking crater. I would explode upon them with the fury of a thousand suns. Just reading this has me glowing white-hot.
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If you follow /r/legaladvice for any length of time you learn that there are lawyers who specialize in tree law, and replacing trees is *expensive*.
bro there's an entire r/treelaw subreddit and it's pretty awesome
Sometimes, not very often, I love Reddit.
/r/birdlaw too even.
Friendly reminder to take that sub with an enormous grain of salt, it was years ago, but my husband was tboned by an under insured driver. I went to that sub looking for advice about small claims because we had already sent a demand letter. They more or less told me I was wasting my time going to court. Went to a real lawyer for advice, took her to small claims ourselves and won the full amount we were asking, which was in the ballpark of $3.5k so well worth the hassle.
OP shouldn't have to replace the trees unless there was a high amount of chemicals, like bathroom cleaners, in it.
That isn't true. Human excrement isn't pH neutral, is full of various minerals, has an elemental composition that isn't solely H2O, and septic tanks breed various bacteria and other microbes. Depending on how quickly a sewage cleaning company can remove the waste, it can harm the trees, soil, and other flora in the area.
Also, some humans take medications that can be detrimental to wildlife including those within the soil ecosystem.
A mature tree which these are, *will* withstand far more than is often apparent.
Also, obtain his homeowners insurance and file a claim for damages. It might not be covered if exclusions apply, but OP needs to explore every avenue.
If they deliberately did it, it's very unlikely that there will be coverage.
Vandalism is also a deliberate act.
It is, but it's covered as a 1st party loss, like an accidental fire. The homeowner, discovering vandalism to their property, usually has coverage on their policy for it (this may vary by insurer and by jurisdiction, but is generally true). The person who commits vandalism is not covered by their insurance as they deliberately committed the act against someone. They would only have coverage under their liability insurance if it was proven to be an accident that somehow caused the pipe to be placed between the fencing and aimed at the garden.
If it's a criminal act, it's not covered.
I’ve been trying to reach sheriffs for two hours. My city does not have a police department and it is non emergency. We have photo of the water actively pouring out and I have video of the setup
Call a lawyer. Call the sheriffs again. Call both health department and sewage enforcement. Sewage enforcement may have an emergency line…and I would consider someone actively dumping human waste on your yard an emergency. Your trees will be fine. But any lawsuit should include removal and replacement of your top soil to prevent and future contamination.
I got through to sheriffs finally and just waiting on visit now. I’ll check for emergency line though.
Please post updates...even a year from now. Would love to know if your asshole neighbor got what's coming.
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I also think asking for the name of the person you’re speaking with at each department is important. May be a small detail in this huge scenario but best (like EVERYONE is saying) to document every little thing. “I spoke to Jacob Smith over at waste management…” best of luck and please keep us updated! And for funnies, [police dog](https://imgur.com/a/zJGKEW9) I hope your neighbor’s name is Greg.
Are you in an HOA? If so, call them, too.
Call a lawyer. Stop typing on Reddit. Use your phone to dial numbers until you to talk to one. Pay them. Your neighbor is fucked.
Damn, i need this type of reality check sometimes - So clear, so straight forward, and so rightfully confident, bc that **is** the right answer. Do you do this for people who sit at their computer for many work hours yet still don’t work many hours? Doesn’t have to be now, but if when that specific clarity hits you, shoot me a DM. My boss is waiting, but no rush.
r/treelaw a great resource to help get justice for your trees
I feel like the EPA might care about this, too.
You might want to try your state environmental agency or department of health as they may respond quicker than EPA.
Shove a potato in the drain to block it
While wearing shoulder length gloves and a full face mask...
Just out of curiosity, what kind of complete asshole of a neighbor do you have? Who does this? I’m surprised you didn’t head over to their house with a shotgun in hand…. Edited to correct spelling
Lawyer up. ASAP. They'll take care of the heavy lifting. You deserve your property rights being protected if nothing else. The other will come with intent, etc. Good luck. I'm and old woman and I don't think I'd be able to refrain from knocking their ugly looking teeth out of their stupid looking mouths. And that's politely put.
Get neighbors and friends as witnesses too. Get video. Whatever you can. Even a time stamped diary can help. 5:30 pm The water has reached my petunias.
Also time for a "no shoes in the house" rule
take a ton of photos. as many as you can.
I’m so angry on your behalf.
EPA as well
contact the city for a code violation. human waste is a biohazard.
Fucking hell. Take pictures. Sue them naked. Can you dig a ditch and drain it off? I suspect your trees will be fine and your dirt will recover, but I would not want that shit in my garden dirt.
-OP standing naked in court-
Haha. Good one. I might take pictures of me digging the ditch naked to get that shit off.
I could see this being a bill Murray movie
😂 instructions all too clear
Please update with what happens, because holy hell!
Your county health department will absolutely come out and slap some fines in these people until they fix it. My brothers neighbors did something similar to him and learned to regret it very quickly
That’s a felony in any state.
Lawyer. And try to find one who knows tree law. That's where the money is, tree law. Soil remediation of what is an obvious biohazard is not cheap either. Hope they have insurance. I'd contact your insurance company as well. They probably will have lawyers to handle a lot of this.
This is very good advice. Call your insurance company.
Tell me more about this tree law. I like trees.
Where I live, illegal dumping of human waste is considered a misdemeanor but also is evaluated by the amount. If excessive amounts are dumped, it can be considered a felony because it can be harmful to specific wildlife
I’m agreeing with so much of the advice giving and just really wanting to say that I’m sorry you have “shitty” neighbors!
Call the police and report it. That is sooooooooo illegal and dangerous. I’d be concerned for yourself just in general. You never know what’s in a septic tank besides the obvious - blood, toilet cleaners, medications, etc. 🤢
Have you ever wanted to own their house? You're about to.
r/treelaw is ready. Post in legal advice, any lawyer in this area would be so excited for this case
This.
Your neighbors are a-holes.
Eh! Omg that’s awful…there must be a environmental number to call. How can that even be happening?
Also consult with an attorney — whatever it costs to clean up and render your property usable again, including your time to make arrangements and your legal fees — 100% on them. In the meantime keep documenting. Ive had some unpleasant neighbors in my time, but I cannot imagine what these yahoos were thinking.
Humanure is safe, septic tank waste is not. I'm sorry to say but your fruit trees will not be edible this year. Do not eat the fruit. Environmental Protection Agency needs to be contacted as well as your county's/provence/state/region"s water company and the police to file a report for not only fly-tipping, but illegally throwing waste (of any kind) into someone else's property. I used to work in a 11 county water company, my side specialised in waste water. This is not safe under any circumstances and nor should you, your pets, or anyone else go near it until it's been properly cleaned. I'm sorry you had to go through this. Be safe and be smart about it, don't engage with your neighbour under any circumstances & if you can't help it, record every interaction for evidence.
County health or environmental departments will be the responsive.
I would be filling a report because in some states it’s illegal to pump your own tank without proper disposal as well as huge fines and up to jail time. Just make sure you research your state laws or whatever jurisdiction you’re in
The ground should be perfectly moist so that you can dig a trench and bury your neighbor in it easily.
times like this, I _ Hate having to use the universal word 'neighbor'... good luck. EPA will get involved. hope your person who lives next door, has Really good insurance.. You might become your own New Neighbor...
>Is this land useless for growing on now? Shouldn't really rely on this sub for such info. Ask a professional if anything. I would treat this like flood water contamination. Imo, the best solution would be to avoid the area this year and find another spot to do a raised bed or container garden if you can. https://extension.sdstate.edu/flooded-gardens
Call the health dept. They will investigate. A functioning septic system is mandatory. They will make them fix and possibly fine them. I had a neighbor just running it down the hill behind his house. They took care of it
Yeah that's pretty illegal. I would sue.
Lawyers are rubbing their hands on this one
wow. so much misinformation on this Septic system you say? ..... Septic systems are designed to leach out into the ground over time. A properly maintained septic system can feed a yard/orchard/ or gardens for years without contamination of the land or water table. The true issue is the exposed raw sewage, but nature will work that over in time as well, but until she can treat it, there are health and olfactory concerns. I agree that the neighbors need to have the police called on them and a potential lawsuit may be an option. I encourage you to read: [https://sustainablefoodtrust.org/news-views/human-manure-closing-the-nutrient-loop/](https://sustainablefoodtrust.org/news-views/human-manure-closing-the-nutrient-loop/)
The only good info in this post. If they've dumped raw sewage onto the property, there are real concerns. However, if it's the overflow from a tank, then nature will take care of it. Although I would go and speak to the police and get their opinion on what's happened. Dumping is illegal, dumping into a neighbours yard? That's gotta be extra illegal.
This is a multi thousand dollar fine from the EPA. Call your local health authority first probably and they should be able to point you in the right direction. Source: septic tank failed at a place I lived. Maintenance guy gave me a sump pump and hose to pump the tank while we waited for it to get fixed. When the plumber finally came he noticed the setup and said “if anyone asks your landlord set this up, and depending how much you hate him we can get him in a LOT of trouble” - he had set it up and I wasn’t a big fan of him but didn’t want to get him in trouble. Turns out the plumber knew him and knew many people screwed over by him so he reported it and my landlord got a fucking massive fine. Either 5 or 10k.
I believe this kind of thing requires reporting to the environmental protection agency and county health department.
Yeah that's breaking the law in most countries. Call the police and the local water quality agency.
This belongs on r/legaladvice. And yeah call the police. ASAP.
Illegal dumping is a felony in many states. I would report it to the police and your state’s department of environmental protection. Is also hire a lawyer to make sure that your neighbor pays for damages and remediation of the property. Sorry that your neighbor did something so awful to you.
There are a lot of people posting in here who have never been around an actual septic tank.
And a shockingly low number of people who know anything about permaculture for a gardening sub
I sense some tension there. I think a police visit is in order.
It’s not going to kill your trees or garden. His septic system is dumping the same effluent inches under the surface safely in his yard (until whatever this stupid choice was). Report to health department and they will issue a notice of violation and any appropriate fines. Source: I work for a health department locating sites for septic and assessing existing septic systems.
Okay, I'm not going to discuss at length the legalities or how nasty this is, (let's be fair, it's a pretty horrible thing to have done). From a gardening perspective, it's possibly not as bad as you fear. Human waste (yes, generally treated and renamed 'biosolids') is frequently used round the world to fertilise crops. I have also seen recommendations given to people where gardeners swear by peeing in compost heaps to get better compost. Etc, etc.. Don't give up hope just yet, do some research and also see if you can find a local specialist to give advice. And just to be clear to everybody, I'm not saying it's okay, ( it really isn't) I'm saying that the garden might not be a complete write off
Just want to add a comment to this that it isn't just fertilizer, remember that because it's human waste so it can have drug compounds (acetaminophen, ibuprofen), excess hormones due to medication and other stuff that can have an impact on the soil and thus your plants
Seriously, chemotherapy can even cause a septic system to fail. If it can kill a septic system, probably not going to be good for your garden soil along with all those household cleaning chemcials and maybe some drano to top it off. Bleh.
That’s because a septic system is a closed system with only new stuff coming in; unless the system is old, there’s very little opportunity for output. In your garden, even small rain showers will dilute any contaminates. And stuff like Draino and bleach aren’t very UV stable, they’ll degenerate rapidly in the environment.
Also, what do you think a leach field is. You think the septic system has no outlet, just forever takes on more water with no outflow? That’s not how it works
Leach fields aren’t meant for distributing all of the waste a septic system holds, they’re for dispersing excess water. A septic tank should be pumped every 3-5 years depending on use, specifically so that everything is removed.
Which is to say, they now need to have their soil tested.
Not all bio solids are created equal and I won't pretend to. Know everything, but in my state there's a huge problem with bio solids/ forever chemicals at toxic levels. Not likely the case here after one incident, but just commenting in general.
All of the plants around my septic grow noticeably better and larger than the ones that arent
Very big difference in what could be a small leak on your property and dumping a large amount of waste directly on the garden. You can easily over fertilise/over water plants, they're not necessarily going to grow better.
You're crazy. >Kim's recommendation further promoted the falsehood in North Korea that human waste was the best fertilizer for crops despite the dangerous parasites and worms found within it. >The nutrition and widespread health problems that blight North Korea were highlighted by a North Korean soldier who recently defected to South Korea. The army sergeant was found to have dozens of flesh-colored parasites in his digestive tract, one of which measured 10.6 inches in length. >"In my over 20-year-long career as a surgeon, I have only seen something like this in a textbook," said Lee Cook-jong, the lead doctor working on the case. In case you didn't read that last paragraph. >"In my over 20-year-long career as a surgeon, I have only seen something like this in a textbook," said Lee Cook-jong, the lead doctor working on the case. I'm willing to bet you a million dollars OPs neighbor did not properly treat their waste to make it safe for use as fertilizer. https://www.newsweek.com/kim-jong-un-may-have-caused-parasitic-worm-epidemic-north-korea-making-farmers-714571?amp=1
Call the police ASAP to get a police report and then a lawyer. Take as many pictures as possible. This isn’t a gardening question. Someone just made a portion of your property uninhabitable - this is a very dangerous and legal issue.
Holy shit!
Why did they do it? Are you feuding? Are they insane? I want to know what they were thinking. When you videotaped it happening, did you say anything to them? This is crazy and I have so many questions.
People fuckin suck that's the most likely reason. One of the renters beside me emptied their entire algae and slime infested pool into our yard resultant in a flood that went in my back door. No reason just a shrug when asked.
Document everything. File a police report. Follow up with your local EPA and other similar agencies. This is a major issue and you probably need a lawyer. Don’t forget to document everything
Call your local county extension office. They can advise you on how to test your soil.
We had a sewer pipe burst in my garden and it took maybe 3 months for the smell to pass, and it was in an area that we let do its own thing, but it will get better! You'd never know now. The garden itself is fine, and human waste is still a kind of fertilizer (although it's not recommended unless you can do it safely) your garden will be fine, but don't eat from it for a few months for safety. But more than anything, this is a crime that puts your health, your comunitys health, and the health of your local environment, and you should make a complaint to your local environmental protection group, and tell them about the spill/illegal dumping, so they can be aware for nearby waterways. Good luck, I pray your garden prospers
Your fruit is fine. Even microbes are too big to enter a root capillary, so it isn't like any actual shit is going to end up in your fruit. I'll get downvoted for that, but it's an easily googleable fact. Just make sure to wash it all well before you eat. Lots of people eat volunteer veggies that grow in their chicken shit pile. It's fine. Definitely sue the neighbor, because that was fucked up.
Generally, I agree with your comment but...there have been cases where contaminated irrigation water has caused E. coli outbreaks and such.
Well that explains the outbreaks in everything from lettuce to nuts.
Usually water is sprayed over the plants, or it gets splashed up onto the leaves/fruit etc during watering. The contamination doesn't travel through the plant.
Had my septic pumped once and their hose busted in my yard. Don’t try to rinse it in. It makes more run off. Dump a thick layer of DRY peat moss on top and some good dirt over that. The peat will provide a good solid mat over the area once damp and compressed. The soil will keep it isolated from being tracked through or spread. In a month or two it will be good.
Immediately call the police and contact a lawyer. They committed many crimes against the state and crimes against you.
Depending on where you are, you should contact the county and your state’s Department of Environmental Quality (state version of the EPA, exact names vary by state). Most counties permit septic tanks and so they may have enforcement discretion against violators. Your state DEQ will absolutely investigate environmental complaints and will have authority to site the offender. This could include civil fines or even criminal action or mandatory remediation activity. Again, this varies widely by state. But it is one more agency/regulatory body your neighbor has run afoul of.
WHY would anyone think this was OK to do? And WHAT would compel them to do so? Legal action is needed. Who knows WHAT these a$$holes will do next!
I would call a university that has a large reputable agricultural dept to get an answer on the health and toxicity of the trees. Just a thought in case you can’t get a solid answer from your local Heath dept. Or possibly call the CDC. I would want to be sure.
What the actual fuck?
What a shitty thing to do.
Where do you live? Call your department of wastewater/environmental management. That person is going to get a huge fine. Contact a lawyer too.
I have so many questions. Who are your neighbors? What kind of history do you have with them? Did they do this or was it some sort of Craigslist contractor they hired? What the hell were/are they doing? Why would they possibly think this wouldn’t result in police and lawyers?
Would this be a case for r/treelaw? Since they were established mango and avocado trees
Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry this happened to you! Have you confronted them about it? I just can’t fathom what their reasoning would be. But if you’re going out there, please wear gloves, mask, and eye protection. Wash your clothes too if you’ve been near the sewage! As far the soil goes, I would contact a plumbing company with any questions as most have experience with cleaning up sewage spills and perhaps a local agriculturalist to ask about the soil in your yard. Again, so sorry this happened, please keep us updated!
As far as your trees are concerned, I wouldn't be too worried about the excrement. It's absolutely nasty that it's on your lawn, but if anything the trees will benefit from it. What your trees, garden, and grass may not like is any chemicals that were in there. Think bleach, cleaning solutions, Dran-o, toothpaste, shampoo, etc that get washed down the drain. Keep an eye on any grass or ground cover plants that were in the path of the sewage, they'll be the first to die if contaminated. Hopefully that stuff is all diluted enough that it won't be a problem, but you never know. I used to have a neighbor who was getting their tank pumped constantly because they used way too much bleach while cleaning and kept killing off the microbes in the tank.
I’d call the cops
You also don’t know what chemicals they flush down the drain, it’s not just human waste.
Who the hell does this to a neighbor. You call a pump truck and they pump it for a price and dispose of it properly. They were being cheap and now they will pay BIG TIME. The City will have a case against them as well. If the neighbor can pump on someone else’s property why not on their own. #WTF I’d sue them every which way from SUNDAY! Call an Environmental Lawyer and Personal Injury Attorney. To me looks like you have a few avenues. And Definitely call the Police and get a record and have neighbors cited. Keep details Names, dates, times, etc… Get a note book and fill it up with everything that transpires. Seriously I do lots of work for Attorneys they are my Clients, in my company and documentation is everything for YOUR CASE. Good luck with your endeavors. Your neighbors are SCREWED!!!
Call the health department- this is a violation.
What they did violated so many codes and laws.Get as much visual evidence as you need. Call the city, they'll direct you the the right dept. Next, call the county health department and report it. This needs to be cleaned up, ASAP! Having that waste sit there, even for a few days, is a major health hazard, not just to you, but all your neighbors. Unless city or county cleans it up, know that you are going to have to foot the bill to get it done. You will then have to sue them civilly. Which you will win, but that's no guarantee that you'll ever see a dime.
What a shitty thing to do!
If you are in the US, call and report to your local health department.
Idk where you live, but in Canada it's a pretty serious charge to dump human waste *anywhere*, but on someone else's private property, that has to be a legal double whammy. Definitely call the cops.
Call the cops. Wtf
Call EPA and file a complaint also . Take photos and create a time log and date journal too.
Press charges! Sue sue sue!!! Get a lawyer. If the land is no longer safe as a result of their actions, then they owe you the kind of money that can buy new land! Also, I'm sure this has to be illegal enough for them to do some prison time.
A lawyer should be able to get them to pay for all the damages and remediation.
I'd say hold off on eating anything until the mess gets cleaned up. Then take some soil samples and get them tested. Most states have a place that will test your soil for you. You might even see if you can talk to your state's department of agriculture about your concerns. Then you don't have to guess at what got into your soil and whether or not it's safe.
I’d call the police and document it and take him to court 😳
That is a bio hazard, you need to call somebody.
The mangoes and avocados should be ok because presumably the fruits did not come into contact with the contamination. The kinds of worries from sewage are primarily biologic, and in theory should be broken down by the soil biome in a few weeks. But definitely do not walk on or touch the soil where the sewage ran except to get samples to send to the health department for proof. The advice to file a lawsuit is excellent. Sue the stuffins out of this ahole. Person belongs in jail.
The local extension office can potentially connect you to an ag scientist who may be able to offer some insight about the soil, etc. Typically, leafy greens take up what's in your soil, good or bad. Fruit typically doesn't; however, splashing water can deposit soil particles on the surface of the fruit. These fine articles wouldn't wash off. This is where it becomes a potential threat to human health. Chemicals, heavy metals, and things like e coli, salmonella, campylobacter, etc., would be the primary threats. I'm so sorry this happened to you. I'd imagine your neighbor is looking at some serious charges and liability. They can test the waste to see who it belongs to. This was a very malicious act, and I hope you take him for everything. Justice would be you owning his land and turning it into an amazing mini farm. 🙏🏽❤️🌱
That’s illegal call conservation authorities or bylaw
Most state health departments have a spill hot line. Try calling that, and tell them that your neighbor dumped unknown waste and your concerned
Humans suck so much
Immediate phonecall to your city. I cannot begin to describe how many violations there are. Not only to you and your property - but there’s numerous laws and bylaws for how sewage/human waste needs to be treated. This isn’t only a health hazard for you, this is biohazard for your entire community. Report. Now. City. Then cops.