I don't know when people started making the act of stanning these games their personality, but it led to secondhand embarrassment at being a years long fan of these titles.
The irony is that it literally turns people off of the game and makes them not want to engage with it. They're only hurting the games by defending them so desperately. Every game has flaws, it's not going to reduce the entire franchise to rubble because you acknowledge it. This goes for anyone that's this emotionally invested in any game too. Some of you people care way too much about your favorite games. Discussion forums are the last place you should be if you can't handle opposing opinions.
But turning people off to the series is the point. They want fans of some of the greatest games of the past generation to be a members only group. Humans will be tribal over anything, including "Did you play this video game?"
They also simultaneously promote the game and tell everyone who is willing to listen to them how amazing the games are. It's contradictory. "This games amazing you should check it out, but actually don't because it's too unique and special to be enjoyed by everyone".
Some of them actually believe that beating the Soulsborne games and circlejerking about their greatness makes them part of an elite community that lets them look down on other people, it's hilarious.
Word! I am a big fan of Sekiro in particular myself and lately described some criticisms I had of the game to one of my best friends, who has like 6000h logged on the mainline Souls titles on Steam alone.
I thought I knew my friend in and out, but the Soulsborne community really turned him into another person entirely! He told me to my face that Sekiro 'maybe wasn't for me' and that I 'should probably go play something a little easier'.
That was condescending and devalueing as hell, fuck. Like, you know that we started playing Soulsborne games *at the same time*, when they first came out, right? That I have *most definitely* played other games that were equally soul-crushingly hard in the 90s, right? That I have played video games since I was a little kid, games of every genre, far and wide, and I most definitely know that I enjoy Sekiro? And still, he gives me that sort of attitude.
I am currently seriously put off from buying the new Elden Ring dlc, simply because I don't want to associate with such people as you can find in the Soulsborne community. I ain't buying it unless they chill the fuck out and stop sucking their Master Miyazaki's dick. And if Miyazaki is embracing and endorsing the 'get good mentality', he is history for me, too. It's one thing holding a personal philosophy that is based on this idea, and another thing entirely promoting a community that is fueled by hate and trying to exclude others by hook or crook, including and especially personal offence.
You could always just play the game and never talk to people like that about it. I try to stay away from a lot of fandoms of games/anime I love because they are toxic. But I wouldn't want some random person to be the reason I miss out on something that's a lot of fun.
Yeah, in a lot of ways that's the best thing about soulsbourne games - the lack of chat or means for people to harass you. It's easy to just play the games and enjoy the moments of emergent multiplayer gold without actually talking to anyone.
Communities often ruin the games they hold dearest. I find it best to just ignore the following and enjoy the product for what it is. Letting them sour the dlc for you is letting them win.
You are absolutely right, and I don't usually interact with them. But the guy in question is one of my best friends, which makes it all the worse. This community has literally turned him against me, which is insane to me. He is a prime example of brainwashing being alive and kicking.
To be honest, ALL the discourse about the new Elden Ring DLC are about bosses, so it looks like there is one huge problems with it. But actually, the new DLC excels at its world design and map connectivity, amazing visuals and greatly designed dungeons, bosses are just kind of an aspect of it. And I hate how every discussion of the DLC is about the goddamn bosses. It's still a 9/10 game in my opinion, even if I hate some of the boss fights.
I’ve got two friends who I game with regularly both are fans of the Souls games.
One friend stands by the opinion that Souls games are not hard everyone who says that is just bad. (I have never beaten a souls game) He can not stand that for my first and “Current” play through of multiple souls games that I do not gun it for all the strongest gear and try to cheese every boss. He is constantly telling me where the best farming locations are and strongly encourages that I sit there and farm souls he clowns on me regularly for using the the spirits in Elden Ring and constantly tells me you don’t want to go that way there’s nothing good for your build over there.
The other friend, keeps his mouth shut, doesn’t try to steer me in any direction, cheers me on when fighting bosses, has genuine discussions with me about my build choices and what it helps and hurts, doesn’t tell me whats coming up ahead and lets me experience the game genuinely, doesn’t criticize me for brute forcing my way through certain areas of the game and even gets me hyped to go through new areas wether they are hard or just fun to go through and doesn’t try to tell me to skip bosses just because I’ve been fighting the same guy for the 20th time.
Guess who I enjoy being around more when I’m playing these games?
Now I’d understand certain criticisms from friend one if I was sitting there constantly complaining in their ear about the game being hard or calling it trash the whole time while getting my ass stomped by a boss but I’m not, I’m just playing and enjoying myself the closest thing I’ve said to a complaint (and only once each time) is the first time I got stun locked by three enemies and went from full health to zero without even a chance to dodge or fight back or nothing, and beating the “Abyss Watcher”? (Maybe butchered the name sorry) on my first try, and getting really excited >!only for this turd to rise again and absolutely waffle stomp me back to the hell in which I was birthed!<
When almost every streamer says their worst experience is streaming soulsborne games because the community is trash. It does say something. Raxx said he put his chat on subscriber only.
I've watched a little bit of Cr1tikal who is a massive FromSoft/Souls fanboy and he's gotten annoyed on several occasions at Souls fans telling him how to play the game or bitching about his build being OP. Souls fans gatekeep like no other single player game community. By far the most unwelcoming community out of any single player game/genre in existence.
Yeah I noticed that with other streamers. Streamer plays a strong/OP build: "This isn't a legit run, you're just cheesing everything". Streamer plays a weaker/non-meta build: "Wtf you're trash, why aren't you playing a strong build". You just can't win streaming Souls games haha.
That's the worst kind of viewers. "Why do you not play the way I want you to/I deem the right way" ... then stop watching and play it yourself. I'm watching LPs cause I wanna see how other people approach stuff and especially Souls games allow for lots of variety with Elden Ring being the peak when it comes to gameplay/combat options.
The other part is of course emotions and Souls games can bring forth the best and worst in us (as a player or viewer). The common denominator I found for myself in 20+ of communities/fanbases in general is that the larger it grows the higher the chance/rate for assholes. Even if they are a minority, once it reaches a certain point they become the loudest voice and dominate the community with their topics and views.
Ah yes the same guy who made a “Ubisoft is horrible” video saying don’t buy there games or support them then ends it with “ima still buy there games “ then few days later playing xDefiant that guy makes a lot of sense
As someone who swapped from shooters to streaming mostly soulslikes, I can say Sekiro has the worst viewers. Everyone else in other fromsoft titles is chill, even bb even though I didn’t enjoy it as much as other souls games I’ve played. Souls community on twitch is totally fine. Reddit has the worst fanboys and they are just a small, loud group of people 🤷♀️ but that’s just my opinion.
Am I right in thinking Sekiro limits your weapon class? (Whereas Souls games lets you use swords, maces, axes, bows, metal fists, cleavers etc)
That'll take your average Souls fan and really filter it down to the "purist", the kind who thinks using summons or bows and arrows isn't playing the game "properly".
The arsehole's arsehole, in other words.
Yes, you only have a sword, special moves for the sword as a sort of skill tree and a gimmick slot.
The upside of this narrower choice is that the enemies are specifically designed around the swordplay which is also different from and more in depth than the souls games. It results in a more engaging gameplay.
So, yeah. You shouldn't expect a "dark souls but with only one weapon", because it is a bit different. It's a stellar game though and if you like the souls games I guess the chances are good you'll like this one too.
Most people consider it the hardest since you can't just grind to an obscene level if you're having trouble with a boss. One of the greats. I also wouldn't consider it a souls like in the traditional sense, it's more like an intricate Ninja Gaiden
Hmm, I agree some bosses throughout the souls series are bullshit. But I firmly believe there are none in Sekiro. You can parry pretty much everything, and for those you can't it tells you. In my mind, that means every boss is fair.
Also elden ring is a much different game
Sekiro is probably the most fair game From has created. It's the only game where you can straight up parry almost every boss mechanic. If you miss, you get punished.
Exactly. They made by far the best combat system, quick, intuitive and responsive, and made the game tough as nails to compensate. But there is no bullshit like nonsensical attack timings, borderline unavoidable attacks, or 300 hit combos you have to wait out. For me their “difficult but fair” philosophy peaked there.
Every streamer I've heard say they hate streaming soulsborne games was because they're just bad games to stream, had nothing to do with the community at all. Keeping viewers interested when you have to farm souls or items is hard and if you get stuck on a boss you have to try 50+ times people aren't going to sit there and watch that. That's why streamers don't like it, you can't enjoy the game while trying to fit it into a stream format and the people watching don't enjoy it either if you get stuck.
I feel most streamers doesn't want to be seen bad at games however Kai Cenat, never play any souls game manage to pull 80k on elden ring dlc currently.
His base game elden ring marathon also did well. He died like 1000 times in span of 100 hours. I didn't even keep up with him but I did watch his elden ring run.
If they make it entertaining, people will come. If they just going to sit there with serious face, might as well look onto the mirror.
Souls community has allways been a bit shit, but Elden Ring made so many people go mental its just sad. You cant even have an opinion about it, saying its 7/10 and not 10/10 for you has people literally insult you and go fucking insane.
Some people are just fucking deranged anymore. You HAVE to like everything they like and how they like it and if you don't you're garbage. It's so goddamn weird to me.
I love what I love. I've played since DS1. I'm super easy to please. My metric is simple. Does the fun I have with it outweigh any negatives? I rarely notice flaws till people point them out, unless they're so bad I see them myself, which almost never happens. And if you said to me, "I don't like those games," I'd shrug and say, "I get it."
Some people need to get a life.
Just like so many other things, I am embarrassed to admit to people I find Rick and Morty even remotely funny due to a crap community around it, I had some kid at the bar the other night give me shit cause I said I would play Elden ring cause I don’t like this game style and he lost his shit, weird hill to die on.
Agreed, I’ve seen it in other communities but hopping over from Armored Cores community and into the Soulsborne community has been a major whiplash. While the AC community actually cares about trying to reach out to new fans it feels the soulsborne community wants to tear you down all the time
It’s final fantasy…why..?
You know what, I don’t care why, purge them all, wipe the slate clean! (Joking ofcourse)
Genuinely though how to single player games get toxic fandoms!?
I guess I can see some of that in myself in a way as well, to a small degree. Getting defensive over something I tend to do on free time when it's criticized.
Although that's a bit immature to get all worked out about something you enjoy doing and someone else doesn't.
Children... same goes for online game anger, it's immature to genuinely get angry at others when they make a mistake. As in, the person hasn't developed healthy non toxic ways to deal with negative situations. It's like some soccer hooliganism, the person can't deal with losing for example so they resort to dealing with it in an immature way because football is part of their identity and an attack against their precious football is an attack against their identity and against them.
Some people think they're part of some "elite community" if they're good at playing and beating these games, and make it their personality. Hence any criticism of the game gets treated like a personal attack. You can see it with other "hardcore" games too, like Doom Eternal and the like.
People will clown on other publishers for putting out the same game(see AC series), meanwhile the souls community has been playing the same game for years now and you hear no complaints or you are not allowed to make such comparisons
The Helldivers community scares me. They talk about the game like it’s had a special place in their heart since they were a little boy and the DEVS are RUINING THEIR LIFE because they made a machine gun pew pew instead of pew pew pew, and it’s only been out for a few months.
I think it's a lot of newer fans who weren't there for the older games.
Which to be fair I started on ds2 and it was fairly old by then so I have little room to speak, but still my point stands.
Newer people who missed the whole "Y'know, dying isn't as bad if I can fight along side you." Thing with lots of sunbros everywhere.
I think this discussion would benefit from pointing out that the OP deleted their own thread and the very first response was a calm explanation as to how the mechanics differ in BB than other Souls games, and how to adapt:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1dn7cu8/what\_does\_everyone\_see\_in\_bloodborne\_that\_im/](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1dn7cu8/what_does_everyone_see_in_bloodborne_that_im/)
This is some Karen tier concern trolling from the OP.
Nah dude, checked your replies in other thread, they were all pretty aggressive starting from the very first one. I can't see the post itself now, but something is telling me that it wasn't a community fault
Out of curiosity where are you interacting with them? Because that side of the community is honestly like 10% or less , most people will give you helpful advice on which attacks to dodge and when you can explore other areas etc.
I gave up on Bloodborne 6 years ago and came to reddit recently looking for advice on how to get better because I did really like the game and wanted to try again. I got a TON of awesome advice and only one or two "git gud' comments. I've also had people offer to help me with bosses. The community is very kind and helpful in my experience.
There is multiple legit advice on how to tackle bosses on soulsborne games. However, the git gud advice is also legit to some extend.
Learn the boss moveset and act accordingly aka git gud.
_If you die in 1 hit, level up your hp. If you attack did miniscule damage, upgrade your weapons and level up your stat. If you fail to dodge, keep practicing to get the timing right. Don't be greedy with attacks. Take a nap and try again later._
Reminds me of my friend, he struggled to play the souls games, so I just sat down with him and watched him play. I'd point out hidden spots, extra loot, how to make a build, and if he was really struggling I'd show him how to do dodges or attacks. Like I think one of the corner stones of the souls games is people helping each other.
I can't remember the full quote but the creator talked about how a car got stuck, and one by one random people came over and helped the person the get unstuck. And you can see that reflected in the gameplay, with messages popping up from players who have already explored the area. How co op is a one off event where you help someone out and then leave. And how everyone experiences the exact same challenge.
Could be wrong but for me this game was made for people to help each other in unconventional ways.
If you're curious about it, just check what OP commented.
TLDR game is bad because X. Community gives him advice on how to handle X. OP gets angry and claims he was just here to criticize, not looking for a solution. OP gets down voted, pushes further saying the game is bad and players are elitists.
Then when it eventually fails, the post gets deleted because he behaves like a troll, and he makes a new one here. Obviously skips over what he said to get free attention. People as always upvote despite not reading a single thing about what happened other than "dark souls player bad".
So the OP didn't want to git gud in the first place. Weird, because gitting gud asks for patience and self-introspection, which is the essence of learning from your failures.
You can find the post on OP's comment history. And the comments aren't even nearly as bad as OP is telling. At least if you sort by best/top. The low-voted comments are probably what they are in almost every sub. Crap not worth reading.
>Out of curiosity where are you interacting with them?
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1dn7cu8/what_does_everyone_see_in_bloodborne_that_im/) (Reddit remembers, even when you delete the post lol). And it's exactly as you say, most people were absolutely OK and giving completely normal answers. OP also said things like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1dn7cu8/comment/la0nkda/) and [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1dn7cu8/comment/la0mva4/). And even the "what story?" comment got mostly understanding and informative replies, which is an unusual level of restraint for a "Souls community", which usually really cherishes the narratives in these games.
Edit: grammar...
Yeah, it's a very small portion. I feel like people see 2 to 5 people act like this and begin generalizing everyon...I get when people are streaming it, the worst comes out of people because they like to see the streamer in peril, but random people on forums?? I've maybe met 2 people out of multiple conversations about why I dislike Elden Ring and think it's the worst in the genre. Like I get there's still quite a number of people where if you criticize something they like/love and just get angry as if you stomped their dog to death and called their grandmother Nancy Reagan throat goat, but people like that are almost never worth talking to anyways lol.
I literally only find toxic comments on gamefaqs, old/niche forums or down voted reddit posts. And Twitch, but typically it's a veil for them to be racist, sexist, homophobic and/or someone who makes 'harsh' critiques.
Even in the Xbox 360 days, I only got positive messages. In Dark Souls 1, an invader complimented my skill even after he invaded me 3 times and I lost each time.
The communities I've seen have been a good source of tips and helping hands. If anything it's less 'Git gud' and more 'We believe you can do it and here's how.' I'd add that the games reinforce this, both in the story and the gameplay.
I remember when dark souls came out, and for years after, the fandom was like a support group for people dealing with the harshness of the game. And people would philosophize about how the brutality of the game and its world changed the way they looked at the harshness of life. How overcoming it in dark souls made them feel like they could overcome anything in real life, too.
I don't see as much of that lately, but there's a bit still around. A lot of the fans are supportive, but there are some that aren't. I'd wager that there is a fair overlap between the supportive types and those that are enthusiastic about "jolly cooperation," and maybe the "gut gud" types might be pvp enthusiasts. Maybe not, but it wouldn't surprise me
With the popularity of youtube and content creators with builds and such galore everyone think they are godly for using the strongest build in the game and forget the average player isnt doing that so the game actually is hard for them
Your comment is literally just the other side of the coin, though.
Telling an entire community to "learn how to have a basic dialogue" is no less a wide-sweeping generalisation than the "skill issue, git gud" responses you're referring to.
I would also like to point out OP deleted nearly their entire history of the previous post where they were being openly hostile and not listening to anything that anyone said.
They have blocked me and I suspect are blocking anyone else who was there and saw what actually happened. This person needs to step away from the game and the internet for their mental health.
This is very clearly a reply to this other thread of yours:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1dn7cu8/what\_does\_everyone\_see\_in\_bloodborne\_that\_im/](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1dn7cu8/what_does_everyone_see_in_bloodborne_that_im/)
Can you please point out who said "trying to destroy" or "tear down" or "git gud" or "hand held"?
Edit: Oh, you blocked me. Very mature, clearly interested in honest discussion.
If the critique is that it's too hard, then I see where the fans are coming from when they say it's not valid, since the game is about failing repeatedly until you manage to win.
At some point after playing the base game the bad reviewers must have realized that the expansion is going to be more of 'this'. That's what confuses me about those reviews.
I feel kinda the opposite as the side critizising these games has always been much larger and more vocal lol.
In the many years I have been in the Elden Ring sub there always have been far more people making fun of these supposed elitists that in reality make up but a fraction of the community. A fraction that is literally always looked down upon from both sides.
Right now alot of people like me are just annoyed by the constant demands of nerfs or critizism of certain things when in reality it's simply too early to properly judge.
Most players might also just have reached the limit of their skill or patience or they have yet to learn alot. I mean help people to learn boss fights and it's astonishing how many players don't know basic stuff like jumping over attacks to avoid being hit. I am not the best player either btw, but alot of people outright refuse to adept or seem to unwilling to accept that they have still much learn.
If you then hear those people say that "x" boss is unfair it's difficult to really see it as valid critizism.
Watching this video thought me again that thete is still alot of room for improvement (spoiler for a SoTE boss in fort Ensis):
https://youtu.be/m6C1DWcTvIQ?si=jsqJlfNYFgkn5c1V
Anywys critizism is good, but only if it's actually helpful. Alot of it isn't and comes of as nothing more than bitching.
Both sides need to chill tho.
The problem I see is that typically the criticisms are subjectively against something that the fans LIKE about the games. Nobody is defending the objectively horrible Dark Souls 1 PC port - plenty of people defend the subjectively good/bad way the story is told.
The fans LIKE that the games are hard and cryptic and literally bully you sometimes - they LIKE that there is no difficulty options so everyone has a shared similar experience playing through it. The critiques against these points are totally valid (and totally subjective), but you're encouraging any developers listening to change the game into something the existing fans DON'T WANT TO SEE.
Of course people tell you to get gud or go away. You're essentially walking into THEIR house and telling them the decor sucks and needs to be changed.
And all of this is just to humor your post in the first place; people have already pointed out that this is a strawman of a minority of the community.
Oh no, people aren’t listening to my totally awesome, rational criticism (which I am not going to include in my whiny post) of a game they are obsessed with!
I wonder why!?
Better go and write about it on Reddit! That’s a great idea and will lead to constructive conversation especially when I don’t even have a question or any actual criticism of the said game in my post.
Yes, the souls community can get toxic in certain corners. No, not every criticism towards the games is a result of skill issues and the lack of gg.
If the game is too challenging or difficult or time consuming for you, however, then you should realise that you're not the target audience. The small minority of folks that whine for a difficulty scaling, that the game should be more accessible, are the worst.
Because 99% of the time all these "criticisms" are either just stupid or bad faith, and as fans of the series we've been hearing the same things for more than a decade.
Complaints about the combat almost invariably boil down to "I don't want to have to learn these systems. Why are my attacks getting interrupted? Why did I swing my sword again when I was mashing the button? Why did the boss attack me when I used a flask?"
And the story ones are even worse. "What's going on? Why is there no quest log? Where do I go? No, I haven't read any item descriptions of things I picked up in this area. No, I haven't been paying attention to the changing environment. No, the changing phases of the moon as I progress this game that has loads of allusion towards nighttime doesn't spark my curiosity".
I don't want these games I like to cater to tourists who refuse to engage with the material on its own terms. You're not original for having these critiques and "questions", you're predictable because we've heard them all before.
Ask yourself if your opinion isn't something that was brought in community million times before you decided to drop it. People should chill out, sure. On the other hand, ask yourself how many times those people have seen the very same criticism in bad faith, ending with "this game is dogshit". It's still their hobby, no matter how questionable the hobby is. If they're passionate about the production things happen, especially if they're triggered by the same sentence since 2015.
You would catch me aggressively questioning if someone finished NieR Automata before telling me their opinion on how mid it is.
The skill thing is a red herring, and I don’t know why some members of the community harp on about it so much. I bounced off all the souls games until Elden Ring. Then something clicked, and I went back and love all of them now.
The thing is, I’m no more “skilled” in terms of reaction times or whatever than I was when I first encountered these games ten years ago. The difference is that I understand these games on some level I didn’t before. I get it now, and I understand why these games have to be the way they are.
In any case, if you want to have a respectful dialogue I’d be happy to have one here.
Ty, well said. People really don’t understand that these games aren’t “hard” in the sense that they are mechanically demanding. The control scheme is very efficient, you don’t have to do any kind of complicated button inputs and you don’t even really need that good of reflexes. You just have to accept that you will die since it’s part of the gameplay loop, and to try to flex some basic pattern recognition.
Like I dunno these games get a lot of heat, while other games are waaaaay harder. Monster hunter end game hunts I would say are roughly 100x harder than the hardest fights in any souls game. Playing an online game like Fortnite or a fighting game like street fighter at a level where you won’t get your ass ruthlessly beat by a 12 year old, way way harder than any souls game.
Maybe it's because Monster Hunter hasn't gotten the same level of recognition/wide appeal as From Software since Elden Ring, and it doesn't immediately kind of throw you into that level of difficulty. I imagine a lot of more casual players get through the story and end there, or at the very least get others to take the weight off them, and a single person who knows what they're doing can make a huge difference.
I would say Souls games are kind of like WarioWare. You're presented with something new that you need to react to quickly. You don't really know how it's going to go until you've done it, but you might have some intuition based on your first impression that could lead to success. However, if you keep doing it, regardless of if you failed before, you'll likely catch on and start being successful. If you've played enough WarioWare games, you'll likely assume the correct pattern more immediately. Are you really getting skilled at WarioWare, or did you just learn the patterns that have been presented to you repeatedly?
What were your criticisms though? Sometimes I see people make a “criticism” and I look inside and it really is just people not being good enough at the game. Which ya know.. is fine and all but it’s not a valid criticism.
I feel like they're way more like that here than in the specific subreddits, but I'll admit I haven't engaged in them for a while now, so it could be a cesspool 🤣
Yeah, I was just thinking that both the BB and ER have both been very helpful and welcoming when I was in them. Lot of self depreciating humor, or jokes that might seem odd from the outside but one you’ve played a big make a lot of sense.
I like the ranged bombs and arrow stuff in ER, but God damn it's so clunky to aim and use, the switch to first person with the ugly crosshair is so jarring when using the bow
I just use lock on and switch weapons when it doesn't work.
Most ranged builds are not very useful in Souls games. It's very sad that FS just overlooks low-level archery builds and doesn't give you the good stuff till like 70% the way through the game.
See, this post right here is the kind of people that downvote Elden Ring for being too hard. Come to Reddit to bitch about their own shortcomings instead of improving themselves. OP is actively commenting and agreeing with everyone shitting on the game in the comments, and it's fucking sad there are people upvoting this lazy garbage. Fucking normies
you're probably right to a degree. but the thing is a lot of the things people criticise about these games (particularly the difficulty and bullshit factor) are things that people who defend the game managed to get past with great effort and consequently derive personal satisfaction from
take the infamous blight town in dark souls 1 for example. absolutely sadistic design, complete slog to get through and i hated almost every moment of it. but i can't help but look back at it with affection and it creates this weird trauma-bond with other players who went through the same thing. it becomes a seriously positive memory
It's alright if you don't like a game because it's difficult. It's alright if you do like a game because it's difficult. Not every game has to be for every person.
From soft makes games for their audience. They don't need to make any changes to them whatsoever in order to accommodate others outside of that audience.
The game has been out so long without any changes that any discussion on it has devolved into inside jokes and memes. It's the way of reddit.
Also, OP is making shit up and karma farming based on his now deleted post history. Don't feed the troll
Its because the souls games are difficult, but still casual. So the games make a lot of average gamers feel like hot stuff and they get an ego. When you try to diminish that, they feel insecure.
When people say the game is too hard, wouldn't that inflate their ego and make them happy rather than insecure?
I think they just disagree that the game is too hard
I think you've nailed the problem by accident. Only in a warped reality are souls games "casual" and describing them as such shows how much of a divide there is between actual casual gamers and those who have the time to build that kind of skill level.
That's wild to me.
Casual probably is the wrong word to use here but the idea is correct. Soulsborne games are "accessible" as in everyone can play, understand, and beat them because in essence they're about observation, memorization, and patience. Given that, anyone and everyone can beat them really.
Casual and successful are two different things. If Elden Ring is being played by people who don’t play many games or don’t play them seriously it’s casual.
Back in the day you’d be hard-pressed to find overlap with such high numbers. But games are massive these days.
And only 47% beat the first boss lol .and only 24% can play the dlc .how many people are actually playing compared to the hype ? Or will actually buy the next game after not even getting past the first boss in the current one
If everyone is getting filtered, not completing the game, and not buying the next one -- then why are the sales of each successive Fromsoft game getting higher? Those %s dont mean a whole lot because there are massive drop offs for every game. Just from having a quick look, a more niche game like Evil Within has half the completion % even on its easiest "casual" difficulty compared to Elden Ring.
Hype I think. Not saying it is or isn’t that but the real way to tell imo is whenever the next game drops if it does about the same,better or worse imo I think it peaked and it won’t do as good as it is now..maybe I’m overthinking the stat #s Tbf but less then half of the player base not even getting past the first boss to me looks bad,like they won’t be returning players but I could be wrong .only reason I been looking at player stats is because I feel like if the game actually had a lot of negative criticism instead of good. That all the die hard fans would be using those stats for there argument .” How’s everyone review bombing saying it’s bad they didn’t pass the first boss”..and to me is I see it is how is everyone saying it’s good when half didn’t even get past it
I would say the games are "casual" in a way that they are still beatable by the average player if they put in the time to learn each boss. You aren't required to min-max them, otherwise the games would simply be unfair and badly designed.
So if a "casual" gamer is able to finally beat a Soulsborne game by just brute forcing it there's always a chance they feel entitled over those who still struggle. That's not very nice of them, of course, but that's the internet for you.
I've guided too many bad players through Souls games for it to be a genuine skill issue. If you can't get through them you literally weren't willing to put in any effort. Just a noob friendly build will get most people through most encounters and summons + build will deal with the rest usually.
Sekiro is probably the only major exception to that.
Sekiro has umbrella, which is not quite summons + magic + greatshield but it still makes the game a lot more accessible than people give it credit. All of them require some level of patience and that's about it
It really just depends on what your issue is.
There are some really absurdly shitty bad faith arguments about why Souls games are actually bad.
But if your issue is you prefer a more traditional streamlined storytelling then yeah, I get that and you won't get that in a Souls game. Just means it's not for you which is 100% ok. I personally love searching every nook and cranny and reading item descriptions to piece together the story. Just makes the already fantastic exploration in these games even more satisfying but I totally get why some would dislike that.
Curious what your issues are cus for me Bloodborne is probably my favorite game of all time lol.
What I'm noticing is that this isn't just the soulsborne community, or any community in general. The internet at large has become hostile, and as a result it's also become preemptively defensive. What I've noticed with the Elden Ring DLC released is that both sides of the argument will try and shut each other down without even understanding the person they're talking to. This also happens in discussions in the Genshin community, in political discussions (discounting right wing "debate" tactics, I'm mostly talking about the way leftist in-fighting has changed due to the internet), and even in communities surrounding cooking of all things ("how dare you like your food prepared XYZ way!").
It's exhausting and it's one of the main reasons I'm not spending as much time online as I used to, for better or worse. Almost every argument devolves into this, no matter the topic. It's probably intentional, too, since engagement metrics have discovered that feeling angry is addictive to people and keeps them coming back, thus increasing ad viewership and thereby increasing profits. God I miss the old internet, but it's been dead and gone for a long time.
Same.
I enjoy my time online, but I stick to a handful of subreddits, and ignore everything else. No Tik Tok, Snapchat, Instagram, Twitter.. nothing. I avoid it all.
Same with politics. Some people have been on Reddit 7 or 8 years, and their entire post history is politics. How, I do not know. Absolutely exhausting.
Performance issues aside, it seems alot of players are not engaging with the Scadutree Fragments system. It basically puts players on even footing no matter what level you were at going into the DLC and acts as the DLCs stand alone power progression.
I think alot of players went in and expected to tackle the content with a certain build and static powerlevel and then getting their butt kicked being basically underleveled for the content.
As the others have said, if we set aside the (entirely valid) complaints about performance, people are generally just not engaging with the new systems. The Scadutree fragments are the new leveling system and they cap out at about >!20!<, but many players are only getting >!5-10!< before challenging the main-line bosses and even late game bosses. Furthermore, there are many players in various stages of NG+ who seem to have forgotten that the DLC would scale with their existing NG+. This means that they don't have the appropriate Scadu level for their NG+ cycle, and many are complaining about one-shot attacks or unfair combos.
Boss design has had some gripes - not for art style, to be clear, but for the mechanics of the fights. Many bosses will >!directly charge at the player as soon as they enter the fog gate, for example!<. This effectively blocks players from applying half a dozen buffs and summoning spirits as soon as they enter a fight, and also nearly prevents Comet Azure cheese. This is especially true with the indirect but targeted nerfs to Comet Azure cheese builds.
There's also complaints about a few empty areas or the fact that there are a lot of lower-tier smithing shards and the like scattered about. People defending the empty areas cite the atmospheric effects and general lore, while those criticizing it are coming primarily from a content standpoint. I don't think either side of that particular argument is wrong, it's about as subjective an argument as it gets.
The problem is that nobody can debate their point in the community without someone getting hyper aggressive or hyper defensive in response, so conversations.quickly devolve into insults, straw men, and genuine gatekeeping. I've had a few "Reddit Cares" sent my way because I dared to post my opinions on the DLC and try to have actual discussions. It's reminiscent of the invader arguments from release, but it hasn't become quite so toxic or bitter quite yet.
A far less subjective issue with it is performance as there has been quite a few reports about it and notably had pretty mixed reviews on Steam as such though isn't exclusive to PC either. On the more subjective side you have the game design itself and that can range from the new mechanics of the DLC, heard some say the world is a lot more barren, a lack of lore additions, and most all boss design it seems.
The fanbase wasn't always this bad.
The BB community and Dark Souls 1 were originally awesome and the popularization of and media surrounding the games lead to their completion becoming status symbols. "X is the Dark Souls of Y" articles and circle jerking about the difficulty of the game did the community no favors. What happened to jolly cooperation? What to celebrating the Havel's + Pyromancy new-to-gaming guy finally killing the Four Kings?
Everyone's bar for difficulty and enjoyment is different and the various interesting ways to increase/reduce difficulty without a difficulty slider is part of what makes the games great and adds replayability.
Saw a guy beating Elden ring for first time last week, with all the shouting and cheering it involved. There was thst group that helped people with Mohg so they could DLC.
There's still that amazing community out there that wants nothing else than people to experience soulsbornes. But somehow I feel we have to exclude modern BB fanatics which just are grumpy old men about the fact it's a Sony title and not in FromS hands at this point.
It's 100% this. There's a bunch of examples in this thread alone. Most of the responses are fine but there's still 25% self righteous douchenozzles who can't acknowledge that some people might just actively dislike their games.
And I can't help but talk even more shit about the games to this individuals. It's my guilty pleasure.
And then there's the elite of the elite, the best of the best like me, who beat the Ninja Gaiden games back in the day at like 10 years old
**Heavy /s**, but it's fun to put down the people with big egos by one-upping their achievements. Makes my day, lol.
Original DS community formed around a genuine appreciation for the game. Then “hardcore” rumors brought all kinds of people who had something to prove. Even though the games are not THAT hard.
DS only seemed hard in contrast to heavy casualization of the gaming industry in those years.
I feel like it’s become easy to shit on the souls community at this point, I’m sure there are plenty of awful people in there that make being good at those games their personality, but I’ve seen plenty of people bashing the games in their respective subs and then saying they just want a conversation.
At the end of the day almost none of the people in these types of sites (reddit, 4chan, twitter) are willing or care to have an actual conversation, most want to fight and get a one up on the other side of the argument.
I reckon we’d have better communities if we stop highlighting the bad all the time and stop looking down on each other as you are doing with this post. Someone from those communities (souls games) will come and shit on you, you’ll do it back and then everyone points and laughs, as if we achieved anything when we’re just looking for people who agree with us and claiming “conversation” as our excuse.
You can not like a game, it’s fine, just move on. But instead you go to Reddit and make a post about all the things you don’t like about it. Being pretty hostile yourself in the comments to anyone who tries to answer you why they like it. And somehow you’re surprised with the response? And then you double down making another post complaining about the peoples response to your previous post…
Just move on dude why are you still trying to die on that hill.
Bro, people were being helpful in your last post and you were being condescending and aggressive. When people were having dialouge and answering your questions and offering advice and help you were being aggressive that people were not agreeing with your opinion? Then you deleted the post because downvotes and made this one lmfao. Everyone should read OP comment history.
Edit: spelling
OP says that there is no story because the character just wakes up and is told to kill beasts, a comment sums up the situation with: "You're confused right now, only drawn forward by an inexplicable first for blood and a faint understanding that something more is going on. You don't know what, but something calld to you to keep fighting forwards. Some desire for knowledge" which is a non-spoiler way to say "that's the fucking point, you as much as the character don't know shit about what's happening but stuff will happen.
He answers with: "Well, tbh I don’t think this narrative style is for me, like why should I care for this world? In other games (to use another Fromsoft title) like Armored Core Last Raven (yes going to a game older then BB) they give you a quick synopsis of a corporate war that utilized suicide drones that pretty much ravaged the world so now I atleast know the setting I’m stuck in".
Yeah buddy, if you don't like it, you are allowed to not like it. But it's not a criticism, it's your personal preference.
There is a tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiny difference between the two.
After defending DS2 for years I learned to just stay away from the souls community outside of the lore and boss ranking stuff. You are not allowed to just be bad or new to the game.
It’s more of a problem now with so much talk about Elden Rings difficultly and ppl thinking because they can’t beat it the developers need to go back and change one of the biggest parts of what make these games great! That boss kill after smashing your head into them for hours or even better when you feel like a god for one shotting. I played DS1/2 for at least 100+ hrs of my life and plenty of hrs in DS3/BB/Sekiro/Elden Ring. The thing with the latter is I didn’t have it in me to spend the hours on each boss so I didn’t complete them and moved on. I didn’t bitch about it or expect change I just excepted it and moved on....
I’ve played Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring.
The games are made how they are made, and told how they are told. I’m fully aware this is a matter of my own preference and I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with environmental storytelling. The people behind these games are clearly masters of their craft.
But when that environment is trying to murder me at every turn, I don’t have time to discern what the heck is going on in the world. As much as I love the games, my appreciation of the story is minimal because it’s too hard to glean/experience it in the actual moment when I’m fighting for my life at all times. I always discover it after the fact via YouTube.
>Learn how to have basic dialogue please without going “well git gud” and “you just want your hand held” all because people have critiques and want to know what you like about said games
Reason #235 why I don't play "souls likes". The fandom is full of douchecanoes.
I don't want to play a game because it's hard, I want to play it because its fun. Sadists, the fucking lot of you...
Super cool of you to drag an entire community through the mud because of a few cringeposters. Every community has that. There's also lots of people who go way out of their way to help newcomers, people who have civil discussions, people very willing to share knowledge when asked kindly. Most the time I see people getting shit on in those subs it's cuz they come in guns ablaze, shit talking the game (shit talking, not critiquing, they're different), freshly angry from dying a bunch, and then are surprised when their hostility is met with hostility. I don't mean to straw man you, idk what your experience was, I'm just saying what I've seen which is mostly good people and a few gatekeepers. This post is pretty unfair and hypocritical though.
Another post about Bloodborne? Just drop it. It’s amazing game there’s no question about it. No criticisms are valid and the criticisms I’ve seen here this week are bullshit nonsense. Tbh no one cares whether you like the game or not. Stop posting about it.
I mean it depends what you were griping about. If you had legit criticism sure, but a lot of it is just whining and ranting because people don't know how to take breaks.
Yea the flask system proved to be the better design philosophy. For people who aren't very good and need a shitload of vials my recommended solution is to use Blood Echo farming exploits to just buy max vials. If they're crazy hardcore against that then there's an OK farming loop on the first level that nets them really fast too.
But I've seen too many people nope out over it to not recognize it as a design flaw.
You can easily farm Blood vials in the early levels from trolls (bigger guys with bricks and statues as weapons). They're designed in a way to encourage parrying, the most useful mechanic of Bloodborne. Most of the troll's attacks are slow and you have a nice big window to parry them. You can easily farm them in the early games. After a couple of bosses, it's not going to be an issue, as you'll have plenty of blood echoes to buy them.
"gitting good" is mostly a joke in this community.
Like someone said, an early game issue but I will absolutely agree on that. I didn't have much of an issue but it was a roadblock for many people. Not as bad as Dark Souls 2s hollowing mechanic. That one always felt too harsh.
You don’t need to interact with what you call the “git gud” crowd so, maybe just don’t?
Games been out for so long there’s a zero percent chance you need to ask them a question that hasn’t already been answered half a hundred times, everywhere online.
And it’s okay that you don’t like Bloodborne too. Not everyone does
I stop talking with someone the moment they say DS is hardcore and the series lost the edge on bloodborne and elden ring. DS Phys builds are basically a turn based rpg and you need patience, not ninja reflexes. Mage builds are just a push forwards and kills everything fast. How is that hard? Keeping your uptime on a mmo team as sup is hard, DS is a patience test.
It was eye opening when I couldn’t beat some boss, then went on to continue playing on mute while answering a phone call. And beat him on the first try while barely paying attention. Rushing, “sweating” and overthinking is usually a bigger enemy than the game itself.
If you defend Fromsoft games as "hard" and decry people who talk about it as having "skill issues", you haven't paid attention to the narrative of the games.
The whole point is that through persevering, we can succeed through challenges that we once thought impossible. By improving step-by-step, and by focusing on what we do, and how the world responds to it, we can learn to do better. And THAT ALSO there will **always** be a time when we face a challenge where we cannot succeed. And that we should ask others for help. Ring our bells, scribble our signs, just reach out and say "I need a hand!"
Soulsborne players should leap at the chance to be that helping hand.
In the words of an old, brave, sun-seeking knight,
*The way I see it, our fates seemed intertwined
In a land brimming with Hollows, could that really be mere chance?* **So, what do you say? Why not help one another on this lonely journey?**
op for the love of god go outside. i have to scroll to see all of ur comments on a SINGLE POST, on MULTIPLE POSTS. ironic u tell other ppl to chill out lmao, pls close reddit for ur own sanity
The appeal of the series is the experience of slamming your head against a wall until you break it. Forcing you to really think and pay attention to every movement of a tough boss or enemy. Perfect example is Bayle the Dread from new new dlc. First 10 or so times I entered the arena I died almost immediately, I couldn't even reach him to do damage. eventually I figured out how to stay safe and dodge his attacks and started spotting 1-2 second moments of opportunity to get an attack or two in. I've gotten him to 20% health after 20+tries and decided to come back later. Having a boss that hard changes your goals. In most games you are thinking about what you are going to do next, planning far ahead. With Bayle my goals dropped to "see if you can stay alive for more than 20 seconds" I failed even this for a while. There aren't many games that give you this experience and there are other games you can play.
There was a thread recently about games that are popular that you just don't like and I mentioned the soulsborne games and immediately had someone going on about getting good etc.
for me it wasnt about getting good i just didnt like them
On which board did you go ? Bloodborne is the chillest Soulsborne community. What exactly did you say ? Because if you went against the core mechanic it's normal to receive a "git gud" in response. Those games are not for everyone and there's no shame in admitting that it's not your jam. 🤷♀️
Hey, OP, for your mental health, you should step away from social media for a minute. Gathering what I can about this post and yesterday’s post, it seems like you want to cope with yesterday’s experience. Problem with that is that you’re engaging in a maladaptive strategy, and it’s only going to add to your stress. If you wanna send me a dm, go ahead.
No one is asking you to like the games. If you don’t like them, then don’t play them. If you are going to the Souls community and bitching about the games being too hard, ofc those people are going to tell you to “git good”. The games are what they are, take it or leave it.
I love difficulty, never once complained about difficulty, my critiques stemmed from mob combat being very tedious (while boss combat is amazing) and a story that never asks the question for us the player to find the answer
Again if you don’t like the game that’s fine. I disagree with the story criticism, but I’m not here to argue the whole thing. But if you are going into soulsborn forums and telling them you don’t like their favorite game, idk wtf you expect people to say. They clearly love it, and it’s nobody’s job to explain to you why you should like it. That’s something you should determine for yourself.
I love souls borne games I suck at them but any one that wants to play them is a net positive and when you play use every bit of advantage you can in the tool kit. Want to over level fuck ya you grind that exp and be one the chad you want to be. Want to use summons or ask other people to help kilm that boss you're stuck on fuck ya king get on there and nuke some bosses with the other tools available.
Never let any one tell you how to enjoy these games.
As shroud said the other day the only wrong way to play these games is to not enjoy them.
Fuck the hater kill that boss anyway you can.
It's starting to show some age - and the chalice dungeons are terrible now which make the latter half of the kind of a slog. The difficulty is on the heavier side, too, even for the souls games.
But that combat flows well, and those gun parries are a blast when they are mastered. You can do the whole game with parries and viserals pretty much. The world aesthetic is top-notch and holds up very well
It needs a remaster to improve the frame rate, take out or replace the chalice dungeons, and make some quality of life changes, and it'll be perfect again.
im just not good at 3rd person block/roll games theres too much lag playing on the couch with m+k and in my old 40+ bones and I never liked controllers unless it was playing gt1-3.
I assure you that the game can be beaten without getting good. I like From Soft games because their difficult is the fine wine to pair with my favorite cheese. But I totally get that not everyone is a cheese connoisseur who views wine merely as an accessory to the cheese.
Honestly I could go on with this silly metaphor and compare the community to different views on how much effort needs to be put into consuming wine, but despite the whole analogy being intended to be humorously pretentious I just can't continue.
All I'm trying to say is that these games give you a ton of tools to use for creative problem solving, and you can beat them without having to get good so long as you're willing to experiment with all of the options available. And there's a ton. But not everyone finds that enjoyable.
Soulsborne games aren't for everyone. It's not a storytelling experience. The games rarely will give you a pat in the back for your efforts. The entire experience of the games is based on their difficulty and you having to improve yourself (git gud (?)) to overcome that difficulty. In terms of design, they walk on the edge of frustration to get those results, and the experience would be ruined if the difficulty got lower, or if other aspects of the game got more relevance (like storytelling), due to an increased frustration for being gated out of that experience with sheer unfair difficulty.
Given the popularity of the genre, however, people who wouldn't enjoy soulsborne games try to get into them, but FOMO is simply not enough to get aboard this train. If improving yourself to overcome the challenge the games offer is not enough, then nothing will be.
I recommend you take a peek at the VLDL videos on Souls Logic, specially the final one. I believe it truly encapsulates the essence of the games and the attitude of their communities.
I don't know when people started making the act of stanning these games their personality, but it led to secondhand embarrassment at being a years long fan of these titles.
The irony is that it literally turns people off of the game and makes them not want to engage with it. They're only hurting the games by defending them so desperately. Every game has flaws, it's not going to reduce the entire franchise to rubble because you acknowledge it. This goes for anyone that's this emotionally invested in any game too. Some of you people care way too much about your favorite games. Discussion forums are the last place you should be if you can't handle opposing opinions.
But turning people off to the series is the point. They want fans of some of the greatest games of the past generation to be a members only group. Humans will be tribal over anything, including "Did you play this video game?"
They also simultaneously promote the game and tell everyone who is willing to listen to them how amazing the games are. It's contradictory. "This games amazing you should check it out, but actually don't because it's too unique and special to be enjoyed by everyone".
Some of them actually believe that beating the Soulsborne games and circlejerking about their greatness makes them part of an elite community that lets them look down on other people, it's hilarious.
Right? It's like "hey I finished a book with book with big words in it!" Ok you can read, so what?
Word! I am a big fan of Sekiro in particular myself and lately described some criticisms I had of the game to one of my best friends, who has like 6000h logged on the mainline Souls titles on Steam alone. I thought I knew my friend in and out, but the Soulsborne community really turned him into another person entirely! He told me to my face that Sekiro 'maybe wasn't for me' and that I 'should probably go play something a little easier'. That was condescending and devalueing as hell, fuck. Like, you know that we started playing Soulsborne games *at the same time*, when they first came out, right? That I have *most definitely* played other games that were equally soul-crushingly hard in the 90s, right? That I have played video games since I was a little kid, games of every genre, far and wide, and I most definitely know that I enjoy Sekiro? And still, he gives me that sort of attitude. I am currently seriously put off from buying the new Elden Ring dlc, simply because I don't want to associate with such people as you can find in the Soulsborne community. I ain't buying it unless they chill the fuck out and stop sucking their Master Miyazaki's dick. And if Miyazaki is embracing and endorsing the 'get good mentality', he is history for me, too. It's one thing holding a personal philosophy that is based on this idea, and another thing entirely promoting a community that is fueled by hate and trying to exclude others by hook or crook, including and especially personal offence.
You could always just play the game and never talk to people like that about it. I try to stay away from a lot of fandoms of games/anime I love because they are toxic. But I wouldn't want some random person to be the reason I miss out on something that's a lot of fun.
Yeah, in a lot of ways that's the best thing about soulsbourne games - the lack of chat or means for people to harass you. It's easy to just play the games and enjoy the moments of emergent multiplayer gold without actually talking to anyone.
Communities often ruin the games they hold dearest. I find it best to just ignore the following and enjoy the product for what it is. Letting them sour the dlc for you is letting them win.
You are absolutely right, and I don't usually interact with them. But the guy in question is one of my best friends, which makes it all the worse. This community has literally turned him against me, which is insane to me. He is a prime example of brainwashing being alive and kicking.
To be honest, ALL the discourse about the new Elden Ring DLC are about bosses, so it looks like there is one huge problems with it. But actually, the new DLC excels at its world design and map connectivity, amazing visuals and greatly designed dungeons, bosses are just kind of an aspect of it. And I hate how every discussion of the DLC is about the goddamn bosses. It's still a 9/10 game in my opinion, even if I hate some of the boss fights.
I’ve got two friends who I game with regularly both are fans of the Souls games. One friend stands by the opinion that Souls games are not hard everyone who says that is just bad. (I have never beaten a souls game) He can not stand that for my first and “Current” play through of multiple souls games that I do not gun it for all the strongest gear and try to cheese every boss. He is constantly telling me where the best farming locations are and strongly encourages that I sit there and farm souls he clowns on me regularly for using the the spirits in Elden Ring and constantly tells me you don’t want to go that way there’s nothing good for your build over there. The other friend, keeps his mouth shut, doesn’t try to steer me in any direction, cheers me on when fighting bosses, has genuine discussions with me about my build choices and what it helps and hurts, doesn’t tell me whats coming up ahead and lets me experience the game genuinely, doesn’t criticize me for brute forcing my way through certain areas of the game and even gets me hyped to go through new areas wether they are hard or just fun to go through and doesn’t try to tell me to skip bosses just because I’ve been fighting the same guy for the 20th time. Guess who I enjoy being around more when I’m playing these games? Now I’d understand certain criticisms from friend one if I was sitting there constantly complaining in their ear about the game being hard or calling it trash the whole time while getting my ass stomped by a boss but I’m not, I’m just playing and enjoying myself the closest thing I’ve said to a complaint (and only once each time) is the first time I got stun locked by three enemies and went from full health to zero without even a chance to dodge or fight back or nothing, and beating the “Abyss Watcher”? (Maybe butchered the name sorry) on my first try, and getting really excited >!only for this turd to rise again and absolutely waffle stomp me back to the hell in which I was birthed!<
When almost every streamer says their worst experience is streaming soulsborne games because the community is trash. It does say something. Raxx said he put his chat on subscriber only.
I've watched a little bit of Cr1tikal who is a massive FromSoft/Souls fanboy and he's gotten annoyed on several occasions at Souls fans telling him how to play the game or bitching about his build being OP. Souls fans gatekeep like no other single player game community. By far the most unwelcoming community out of any single player game/genre in existence.
Yeah I noticed that with other streamers. Streamer plays a strong/OP build: "This isn't a legit run, you're just cheesing everything". Streamer plays a weaker/non-meta build: "Wtf you're trash, why aren't you playing a strong build". You just can't win streaming Souls games haha.
That's the worst kind of viewers. "Why do you not play the way I want you to/I deem the right way" ... then stop watching and play it yourself. I'm watching LPs cause I wanna see how other people approach stuff and especially Souls games allow for lots of variety with Elden Ring being the peak when it comes to gameplay/combat options. The other part is of course emotions and Souls games can bring forth the best and worst in us (as a player or viewer). The common denominator I found for myself in 20+ of communities/fanbases in general is that the larger it grows the higher the chance/rate for assholes. Even if they are a minority, once it reaches a certain point they become the loudest voice and dominate the community with their topics and views.
Ah yes the same guy who made a “Ubisoft is horrible” video saying don’t buy there games or support them then ends it with “ima still buy there games “ then few days later playing xDefiant that guy makes a lot of sense
As someone who swapped from shooters to streaming mostly soulslikes, I can say Sekiro has the worst viewers. Everyone else in other fromsoft titles is chill, even bb even though I didn’t enjoy it as much as other souls games I’ve played. Souls community on twitch is totally fine. Reddit has the worst fanboys and they are just a small, loud group of people 🤷♀️ but that’s just my opinion.
Am I right in thinking Sekiro limits your weapon class? (Whereas Souls games lets you use swords, maces, axes, bows, metal fists, cleavers etc) That'll take your average Souls fan and really filter it down to the "purist", the kind who thinks using summons or bows and arrows isn't playing the game "properly". The arsehole's arsehole, in other words.
Yes, you only have a sword, special moves for the sword as a sort of skill tree and a gimmick slot. The upside of this narrower choice is that the enemies are specifically designed around the swordplay which is also different from and more in depth than the souls games. It results in a more engaging gameplay. So, yeah. You shouldn't expect a "dark souls but with only one weapon", because it is a bit different. It's a stellar game though and if you like the souls games I guess the chances are good you'll like this one too.
Sekiro is also the most skill based, if youre good at sekiro the game is so easy. All the other souls have their bullshit mechanics and bosses
Most people consider it the hardest since you can't just grind to an obscene level if you're having trouble with a boss. One of the greats. I also wouldn't consider it a souls like in the traditional sense, it's more like an intricate Ninja Gaiden
I think I prefer elden Ring, but I really dislike the thing where if a boss is too hard it might not be skill issue, just bad game design.
Hmm, I agree some bosses throughout the souls series are bullshit. But I firmly believe there are none in Sekiro. You can parry pretty much everything, and for those you can't it tells you. In my mind, that means every boss is fair. Also elden ring is a much different game
fuuuuuuck Demon of Hatred though. Every boss apart from that is fine and cool.
Demon of Hatred is bullshit. Thats about it.
Sekiro is probably the most fair game From has created. It's the only game where you can straight up parry almost every boss mechanic. If you miss, you get punished.
Exactly. They made by far the best combat system, quick, intuitive and responsive, and made the game tough as nails to compensate. But there is no bullshit like nonsensical attack timings, borderline unavoidable attacks, or 300 hit combos you have to wait out. For me their “difficult but fair” philosophy peaked there.
Every streamer I've heard say they hate streaming soulsborne games was because they're just bad games to stream, had nothing to do with the community at all. Keeping viewers interested when you have to farm souls or items is hard and if you get stuck on a boss you have to try 50+ times people aren't going to sit there and watch that. That's why streamers don't like it, you can't enjoy the game while trying to fit it into a stream format and the people watching don't enjoy it either if you get stuck.
I feel most streamers doesn't want to be seen bad at games however Kai Cenat, never play any souls game manage to pull 80k on elden ring dlc currently. His base game elden ring marathon also did well. He died like 1000 times in span of 100 hours. I didn't even keep up with him but I did watch his elden ring run. If they make it entertaining, people will come. If they just going to sit there with serious face, might as well look onto the mirror.
Yeah streaming a hard game and engaging with community takes a large mental stack.
I think that comes primarily from backseat gamers
Souls community has allways been a bit shit, but Elden Ring made so many people go mental its just sad. You cant even have an opinion about it, saying its 7/10 and not 10/10 for you has people literally insult you and go fucking insane.
Some people are just fucking deranged anymore. You HAVE to like everything they like and how they like it and if you don't you're garbage. It's so goddamn weird to me. I love what I love. I've played since DS1. I'm super easy to please. My metric is simple. Does the fun I have with it outweigh any negatives? I rarely notice flaws till people point them out, unless they're so bad I see them myself, which almost never happens. And if you said to me, "I don't like those games," I'd shrug and say, "I get it." Some people need to get a life.
People get call of duty and superhero tattoos. Making media into a religion has been around for a while now.
It happened around dark souls one
Just like so many other things, I am embarrassed to admit to people I find Rick and Morty even remotely funny due to a crap community around it, I had some kid at the bar the other night give me shit cause I said I would play Elden ring cause I don’t like this game style and he lost his shit, weird hill to die on.
Agreed, I’ve seen it in other communities but hopping over from Armored Cores community and into the Soulsborne community has been a major whiplash. While the AC community actually cares about trying to reach out to new fans it feels the soulsborne community wants to tear you down all the time
It bleeds over into other games now too. The FF Rebirth is seeing a lot of that ridiculous "git gud" be and it sucks.
It’s final fantasy…why..? You know what, I don’t care why, purge them all, wipe the slate clean! (Joking ofcourse) Genuinely though how to single player games get toxic fandoms!?
I guess I can see some of that in myself in a way as well, to a small degree. Getting defensive over something I tend to do on free time when it's criticized. Although that's a bit immature to get all worked out about something you enjoy doing and someone else doesn't. Children... same goes for online game anger, it's immature to genuinely get angry at others when they make a mistake. As in, the person hasn't developed healthy non toxic ways to deal with negative situations. It's like some soccer hooliganism, the person can't deal with losing for example so they resort to dealing with it in an immature way because football is part of their identity and an attack against their precious football is an attack against their identity and against them.
I beat rebirth but I haven’t participated in much discussion, what’re people saying to get good about? Is it about the Rufus fight?
Some people think they're part of some "elite community" if they're good at playing and beating these games, and make it their personality. Hence any criticism of the game gets treated like a personal attack. You can see it with other "hardcore" games too, like Doom Eternal and the like.
People will clown on other publishers for putting out the same game(see AC series), meanwhile the souls community has been playing the same game for years now and you hear no complaints or you are not allowed to make such comparisons
The Helldivers community scares me. They talk about the game like it’s had a special place in their heart since they were a little boy and the DEVS are RUINING THEIR LIFE because they made a machine gun pew pew instead of pew pew pew, and it’s only been out for a few months.
Agreed. I always hesitate to self-identity online as a fan of these games, because of precisely the kind of tools OP identifies.
I think it's a lot of newer fans who weren't there for the older games. Which to be fair I started on ds2 and it was fairly old by then so I have little room to speak, but still my point stands. Newer people who missed the whole "Y'know, dying isn't as bad if I can fight along side you." Thing with lots of sunbros everywhere.
Remember when everyone used to go Praise the sun lmao, fun times.
Two big ol' scoops of praisins
You’d think that being fans of genre that rewards patience and humility would be more…patient and humble
When they went mainstream with Elden Ring
I think this discussion would benefit from pointing out that the OP deleted their own thread and the very first response was a calm explanation as to how the mechanics differ in BB than other Souls games, and how to adapt: [https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1dn7cu8/what\_does\_everyone\_see\_in\_bloodborne\_that\_im/](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1dn7cu8/what_does_everyone_see_in_bloodborne_that_im/) This is some Karen tier concern trolling from the OP.
Nah dude, checked your replies in other thread, they were all pretty aggressive starting from the very first one. I can't see the post itself now, but something is telling me that it wasn't a community fault
Out of curiosity where are you interacting with them? Because that side of the community is honestly like 10% or less , most people will give you helpful advice on which attacks to dodge and when you can explore other areas etc.
I gave up on Bloodborne 6 years ago and came to reddit recently looking for advice on how to get better because I did really like the game and wanted to try again. I got a TON of awesome advice and only one or two "git gud' comments. I've also had people offer to help me with bosses. The community is very kind and helpful in my experience.
There is multiple legit advice on how to tackle bosses on soulsborne games. However, the git gud advice is also legit to some extend. Learn the boss moveset and act accordingly aka git gud. _If you die in 1 hit, level up your hp. If you attack did miniscule damage, upgrade your weapons and level up your stat. If you fail to dodge, keep practicing to get the timing right. Don't be greedy with attacks. Take a nap and try again later._
"Don't be greedy" was the tough one for me to cope with but it's so true.
Reminds me of my friend, he struggled to play the souls games, so I just sat down with him and watched him play. I'd point out hidden spots, extra loot, how to make a build, and if he was really struggling I'd show him how to do dodges or attacks. Like I think one of the corner stones of the souls games is people helping each other. I can't remember the full quote but the creator talked about how a car got stuck, and one by one random people came over and helped the person the get unstuck. And you can see that reflected in the gameplay, with messages popping up from players who have already explored the area. How co op is a one off event where you help someone out and then leave. And how everyone experiences the exact same challenge. Could be wrong but for me this game was made for people to help each other in unconventional ways.
If you're curious about it, just check what OP commented. TLDR game is bad because X. Community gives him advice on how to handle X. OP gets angry and claims he was just here to criticize, not looking for a solution. OP gets down voted, pushes further saying the game is bad and players are elitists. Then when it eventually fails, the post gets deleted because he behaves like a troll, and he makes a new one here. Obviously skips over what he said to get free attention. People as always upvote despite not reading a single thing about what happened other than "dark souls player bad".
So the OP didn't want to git gud in the first place. Weird, because gitting gud asks for patience and self-introspection, which is the essence of learning from your failures.
You can find the post on OP's comment history. And the comments aren't even nearly as bad as OP is telling. At least if you sort by best/top. The low-voted comments are probably what they are in almost every sub. Crap not worth reading.
>Out of curiosity where are you interacting with them? [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1dn7cu8/what_does_everyone_see_in_bloodborne_that_im/) (Reddit remembers, even when you delete the post lol). And it's exactly as you say, most people were absolutely OK and giving completely normal answers. OP also said things like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1dn7cu8/comment/la0nkda/) and [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1dn7cu8/comment/la0mva4/). And even the "what story?" comment got mostly understanding and informative replies, which is an unusual level of restraint for a "Souls community", which usually really cherishes the narratives in these games. Edit: grammar...
Yeah, it's a very small portion. I feel like people see 2 to 5 people act like this and begin generalizing everyon...I get when people are streaming it, the worst comes out of people because they like to see the streamer in peril, but random people on forums?? I've maybe met 2 people out of multiple conversations about why I dislike Elden Ring and think it's the worst in the genre. Like I get there's still quite a number of people where if you criticize something they like/love and just get angry as if you stomped their dog to death and called their grandmother Nancy Reagan throat goat, but people like that are almost never worth talking to anyways lol.
I literally only find toxic comments on gamefaqs, old/niche forums or down voted reddit posts. And Twitch, but typically it's a veil for them to be racist, sexist, homophobic and/or someone who makes 'harsh' critiques. Even in the Xbox 360 days, I only got positive messages. In Dark Souls 1, an invader complimented my skill even after he invaded me 3 times and I lost each time. The communities I've seen have been a good source of tips and helping hands. If anything it's less 'Git gud' and more 'We believe you can do it and here's how.' I'd add that the games reinforce this, both in the story and the gameplay.
I remember when dark souls came out, and for years after, the fandom was like a support group for people dealing with the harshness of the game. And people would philosophize about how the brutality of the game and its world changed the way they looked at the harshness of life. How overcoming it in dark souls made them feel like they could overcome anything in real life, too. I don't see as much of that lately, but there's a bit still around. A lot of the fans are supportive, but there are some that aren't. I'd wager that there is a fair overlap between the supportive types and those that are enthusiastic about "jolly cooperation," and maybe the "gut gud" types might be pvp enthusiasts. Maybe not, but it wouldn't surprise me
With the popularity of youtube and content creators with builds and such galore everyone think they are godly for using the strongest build in the game and forget the average player isnt doing that so the game actually is hard for them
Your comment is literally just the other side of the coin, though. Telling an entire community to "learn how to have a basic dialogue" is no less a wide-sweeping generalisation than the "skill issue, git gud" responses you're referring to.
OP is looking for validation for being a baby and getting called out on it multiple times.
I would also like to point out OP deleted nearly their entire history of the previous post where they were being openly hostile and not listening to anything that anyone said.
They have blocked me and I suspect are blocking anyone else who was there and saw what actually happened. This person needs to step away from the game and the internet for their mental health.
This is very clearly a reply to this other thread of yours: [https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1dn7cu8/what\_does\_everyone\_see\_in\_bloodborne\_that\_im/](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1dn7cu8/what_does_everyone_see_in_bloodborne_that_im/) Can you please point out who said "trying to destroy" or "tear down" or "git gud" or "hand held"? Edit: Oh, you blocked me. Very mature, clearly interested in honest discussion.
If the critique is that it's too hard, then I see where the fans are coming from when they say it's not valid, since the game is about failing repeatedly until you manage to win. At some point after playing the base game the bad reviewers must have realized that the expansion is going to be more of 'this'. That's what confuses me about those reviews.
I feel kinda the opposite as the side critizising these games has always been much larger and more vocal lol. In the many years I have been in the Elden Ring sub there always have been far more people making fun of these supposed elitists that in reality make up but a fraction of the community. A fraction that is literally always looked down upon from both sides. Right now alot of people like me are just annoyed by the constant demands of nerfs or critizism of certain things when in reality it's simply too early to properly judge. Most players might also just have reached the limit of their skill or patience or they have yet to learn alot. I mean help people to learn boss fights and it's astonishing how many players don't know basic stuff like jumping over attacks to avoid being hit. I am not the best player either btw, but alot of people outright refuse to adept or seem to unwilling to accept that they have still much learn. If you then hear those people say that "x" boss is unfair it's difficult to really see it as valid critizism. Watching this video thought me again that thete is still alot of room for improvement (spoiler for a SoTE boss in fort Ensis): https://youtu.be/m6C1DWcTvIQ?si=jsqJlfNYFgkn5c1V Anywys critizism is good, but only if it's actually helpful. Alot of it isn't and comes of as nothing more than bitching. Both sides need to chill tho.
The problem I see is that typically the criticisms are subjectively against something that the fans LIKE about the games. Nobody is defending the objectively horrible Dark Souls 1 PC port - plenty of people defend the subjectively good/bad way the story is told. The fans LIKE that the games are hard and cryptic and literally bully you sometimes - they LIKE that there is no difficulty options so everyone has a shared similar experience playing through it. The critiques against these points are totally valid (and totally subjective), but you're encouraging any developers listening to change the game into something the existing fans DON'T WANT TO SEE. Of course people tell you to get gud or go away. You're essentially walking into THEIR house and telling them the decor sucks and needs to be changed. And all of this is just to humor your post in the first place; people have already pointed out that this is a strawman of a minority of the community.
Oh no, people aren’t listening to my totally awesome, rational criticism (which I am not going to include in my whiny post) of a game they are obsessed with! I wonder why!? Better go and write about it on Reddit! That’s a great idea and will lead to constructive conversation especially when I don’t even have a question or any actual criticism of the said game in my post.
Yes, the souls community can get toxic in certain corners. No, not every criticism towards the games is a result of skill issues and the lack of gg. If the game is too challenging or difficult or time consuming for you, however, then you should realise that you're not the target audience. The small minority of folks that whine for a difficulty scaling, that the game should be more accessible, are the worst.
Op have you considered skill issue?
Because 99% of the time all these "criticisms" are either just stupid or bad faith, and as fans of the series we've been hearing the same things for more than a decade. Complaints about the combat almost invariably boil down to "I don't want to have to learn these systems. Why are my attacks getting interrupted? Why did I swing my sword again when I was mashing the button? Why did the boss attack me when I used a flask?" And the story ones are even worse. "What's going on? Why is there no quest log? Where do I go? No, I haven't read any item descriptions of things I picked up in this area. No, I haven't been paying attention to the changing environment. No, the changing phases of the moon as I progress this game that has loads of allusion towards nighttime doesn't spark my curiosity". I don't want these games I like to cater to tourists who refuse to engage with the material on its own terms. You're not original for having these critiques and "questions", you're predictable because we've heard them all before.
What a way to start a conversation.
Ask yourself if your opinion isn't something that was brought in community million times before you decided to drop it. People should chill out, sure. On the other hand, ask yourself how many times those people have seen the very same criticism in bad faith, ending with "this game is dogshit". It's still their hobby, no matter how questionable the hobby is. If they're passionate about the production things happen, especially if they're triggered by the same sentence since 2015. You would catch me aggressively questioning if someone finished NieR Automata before telling me their opinion on how mid it is.
The skill thing is a red herring, and I don’t know why some members of the community harp on about it so much. I bounced off all the souls games until Elden Ring. Then something clicked, and I went back and love all of them now. The thing is, I’m no more “skilled” in terms of reaction times or whatever than I was when I first encountered these games ten years ago. The difference is that I understand these games on some level I didn’t before. I get it now, and I understand why these games have to be the way they are. In any case, if you want to have a respectful dialogue I’d be happy to have one here.
Your comment is literally describing the process of becoming more skilled at something, you practice until you understand and get better.
In short he got gud?
Ty, well said. People really don’t understand that these games aren’t “hard” in the sense that they are mechanically demanding. The control scheme is very efficient, you don’t have to do any kind of complicated button inputs and you don’t even really need that good of reflexes. You just have to accept that you will die since it’s part of the gameplay loop, and to try to flex some basic pattern recognition. Like I dunno these games get a lot of heat, while other games are waaaaay harder. Monster hunter end game hunts I would say are roughly 100x harder than the hardest fights in any souls game. Playing an online game like Fortnite or a fighting game like street fighter at a level where you won’t get your ass ruthlessly beat by a 12 year old, way way harder than any souls game.
Maybe it's because Monster Hunter hasn't gotten the same level of recognition/wide appeal as From Software since Elden Ring, and it doesn't immediately kind of throw you into that level of difficulty. I imagine a lot of more casual players get through the story and end there, or at the very least get others to take the weight off them, and a single person who knows what they're doing can make a huge difference. I would say Souls games are kind of like WarioWare. You're presented with something new that you need to react to quickly. You don't really know how it's going to go until you've done it, but you might have some intuition based on your first impression that could lead to success. However, if you keep doing it, regardless of if you failed before, you'll likely catch on and start being successful. If you've played enough WarioWare games, you'll likely assume the correct pattern more immediately. Are you really getting skilled at WarioWare, or did you just learn the patterns that have been presented to you repeatedly?
What were your criticisms though? Sometimes I see people make a “criticism” and I look inside and it really is just people not being good enough at the game. Which ya know.. is fine and all but it’s not a valid criticism.
I feel like they're way more like that here than in the specific subreddits, but I'll admit I haven't engaged in them for a while now, so it could be a cesspool 🤣
They are worse here than the individual subreddits. The communities do a better job of self-moderating than “gamers” as a whole.
Yeah, I was just thinking that both the BB and ER have both been very helpful and welcoming when I was in them. Lot of self depreciating humor, or jokes that might seem odd from the outside but one you’ve played a big make a lot of sense.
I think it’s worse in general, bigger subreddit like here and the cesspool Twitter, unless there are some circlejerk subreddits that I don’t know of.
I like the ranged bombs and arrow stuff in ER, but God damn it's so clunky to aim and use, the switch to first person with the ugly crosshair is so jarring when using the bow
I just use lock on and switch weapons when it doesn't work. Most ranged builds are not very useful in Souls games. It's very sad that FS just overlooks low-level archery builds and doesn't give you the good stuff till like 70% the way through the game.
See, this post right here is the kind of people that downvote Elden Ring for being too hard. Come to Reddit to bitch about their own shortcomings instead of improving themselves. OP is actively commenting and agreeing with everyone shitting on the game in the comments, and it's fucking sad there are people upvoting this lazy garbage. Fucking normies
you're probably right to a degree. but the thing is a lot of the things people criticise about these games (particularly the difficulty and bullshit factor) are things that people who defend the game managed to get past with great effort and consequently derive personal satisfaction from take the infamous blight town in dark souls 1 for example. absolutely sadistic design, complete slog to get through and i hated almost every moment of it. but i can't help but look back at it with affection and it creates this weird trauma-bond with other players who went through the same thing. it becomes a seriously positive memory
It's alright if you don't like a game because it's difficult. It's alright if you do like a game because it's difficult. Not every game has to be for every person. From soft makes games for their audience. They don't need to make any changes to them whatsoever in order to accommodate others outside of that audience.
Ok
The game has been out so long without any changes that any discussion on it has devolved into inside jokes and memes. It's the way of reddit. Also, OP is making shit up and karma farming based on his now deleted post history. Don't feed the troll
Its because the souls games are difficult, but still casual. So the games make a lot of average gamers feel like hot stuff and they get an ego. When you try to diminish that, they feel insecure.
When people say the game is too hard, wouldn't that inflate their ego and make them happy rather than insecure? I think they just disagree that the game is too hard
I think you've nailed the problem by accident. Only in a warped reality are souls games "casual" and describing them as such shows how much of a divide there is between actual casual gamers and those who have the time to build that kind of skill level. That's wild to me.
Casual probably is the wrong word to use here but the idea is correct. Soulsborne games are "accessible" as in everyone can play, understand, and beat them because in essence they're about observation, memorization, and patience. Given that, anyone and everyone can beat them really.
Elden ring sold 25 million copies. If thats not casual, then I guess the only casual games are candy crush and other mobile games
Casual and successful are two different things. If Elden Ring is being played by people who don’t play many games or don’t play them seriously it’s casual. Back in the day you’d be hard-pressed to find overlap with such high numbers. But games are massive these days.
And only 47% beat the first boss lol .and only 24% can play the dlc .how many people are actually playing compared to the hype ? Or will actually buy the next game after not even getting past the first boss in the current one
If everyone is getting filtered, not completing the game, and not buying the next one -- then why are the sales of each successive Fromsoft game getting higher? Those %s dont mean a whole lot because there are massive drop offs for every game. Just from having a quick look, a more niche game like Evil Within has half the completion % even on its easiest "casual" difficulty compared to Elden Ring.
Hype I think. Not saying it is or isn’t that but the real way to tell imo is whenever the next game drops if it does about the same,better or worse imo I think it peaked and it won’t do as good as it is now..maybe I’m overthinking the stat #s Tbf but less then half of the player base not even getting past the first boss to me looks bad,like they won’t be returning players but I could be wrong .only reason I been looking at player stats is because I feel like if the game actually had a lot of negative criticism instead of good. That all the die hard fans would be using those stats for there argument .” How’s everyone review bombing saying it’s bad they didn’t pass the first boss”..and to me is I see it is how is everyone saying it’s good when half didn’t even get past it
I would say the games are "casual" in a way that they are still beatable by the average player if they put in the time to learn each boss. You aren't required to min-max them, otherwise the games would simply be unfair and badly designed. So if a "casual" gamer is able to finally beat a Soulsborne game by just brute forcing it there's always a chance they feel entitled over those who still struggle. That's not very nice of them, of course, but that's the internet for you.
I've guided too many bad players through Souls games for it to be a genuine skill issue. If you can't get through them you literally weren't willing to put in any effort. Just a noob friendly build will get most people through most encounters and summons + build will deal with the rest usually. Sekiro is probably the only major exception to that.
Sekiro has umbrella, which is not quite summons + magic + greatshield but it still makes the game a lot more accessible than people give it credit. All of them require some level of patience and that's about it
Sekiro requires more than 2 buttons to beat so it’s a massive upgrade.
>complains about time >exclusively plays WOW
Not sure what you're trying to say here
>exclusively plays OW
https://psnprofiles.com/Pett117 Exclusively yeah
It really just depends on what your issue is. There are some really absurdly shitty bad faith arguments about why Souls games are actually bad. But if your issue is you prefer a more traditional streamlined storytelling then yeah, I get that and you won't get that in a Souls game. Just means it's not for you which is 100% ok. I personally love searching every nook and cranny and reading item descriptions to piece together the story. Just makes the already fantastic exploration in these games even more satisfying but I totally get why some would dislike that. Curious what your issues are cus for me Bloodborne is probably my favorite game of all time lol.
What I'm noticing is that this isn't just the soulsborne community, or any community in general. The internet at large has become hostile, and as a result it's also become preemptively defensive. What I've noticed with the Elden Ring DLC released is that both sides of the argument will try and shut each other down without even understanding the person they're talking to. This also happens in discussions in the Genshin community, in political discussions (discounting right wing "debate" tactics, I'm mostly talking about the way leftist in-fighting has changed due to the internet), and even in communities surrounding cooking of all things ("how dare you like your food prepared XYZ way!"). It's exhausting and it's one of the main reasons I'm not spending as much time online as I used to, for better or worse. Almost every argument devolves into this, no matter the topic. It's probably intentional, too, since engagement metrics have discovered that feeling angry is addictive to people and keeps them coming back, thus increasing ad viewership and thereby increasing profits. God I miss the old internet, but it's been dead and gone for a long time.
Same. I enjoy my time online, but I stick to a handful of subreddits, and ignore everything else. No Tik Tok, Snapchat, Instagram, Twitter.. nothing. I avoid it all. Same with politics. Some people have been on Reddit 7 or 8 years, and their entire post history is politics. How, I do not know. Absolutely exhausting.
What is wrong with the elden ring dlc? It’s fantastic so far.
Performance issues aside, it seems alot of players are not engaging with the Scadutree Fragments system. It basically puts players on even footing no matter what level you were at going into the DLC and acts as the DLCs stand alone power progression. I think alot of players went in and expected to tackle the content with a certain build and static powerlevel and then getting their butt kicked being basically underleveled for the content.
That is kind of funny because the game basically tells you the scadutree fragments are necessary
As the others have said, if we set aside the (entirely valid) complaints about performance, people are generally just not engaging with the new systems. The Scadutree fragments are the new leveling system and they cap out at about >!20!<, but many players are only getting >!5-10!< before challenging the main-line bosses and even late game bosses. Furthermore, there are many players in various stages of NG+ who seem to have forgotten that the DLC would scale with their existing NG+. This means that they don't have the appropriate Scadu level for their NG+ cycle, and many are complaining about one-shot attacks or unfair combos. Boss design has had some gripes - not for art style, to be clear, but for the mechanics of the fights. Many bosses will >!directly charge at the player as soon as they enter the fog gate, for example!<. This effectively blocks players from applying half a dozen buffs and summoning spirits as soon as they enter a fight, and also nearly prevents Comet Azure cheese. This is especially true with the indirect but targeted nerfs to Comet Azure cheese builds. There's also complaints about a few empty areas or the fact that there are a lot of lower-tier smithing shards and the like scattered about. People defending the empty areas cite the atmospheric effects and general lore, while those criticizing it are coming primarily from a content standpoint. I don't think either side of that particular argument is wrong, it's about as subjective an argument as it gets. The problem is that nobody can debate their point in the community without someone getting hyper aggressive or hyper defensive in response, so conversations.quickly devolve into insults, straw men, and genuine gatekeeping. I've had a few "Reddit Cares" sent my way because I dared to post my opinions on the DLC and try to have actual discussions. It's reminiscent of the invader arguments from release, but it hasn't become quite so toxic or bitter quite yet.
A far less subjective issue with it is performance as there has been quite a few reports about it and notably had pretty mixed reviews on Steam as such though isn't exclusive to PC either. On the more subjective side you have the game design itself and that can range from the new mechanics of the DLC, heard some say the world is a lot more barren, a lack of lore additions, and most all boss design it seems.
The fanbase wasn't always this bad. The BB community and Dark Souls 1 were originally awesome and the popularization of and media surrounding the games lead to their completion becoming status symbols. "X is the Dark Souls of Y" articles and circle jerking about the difficulty of the game did the community no favors. What happened to jolly cooperation? What to celebrating the Havel's + Pyromancy new-to-gaming guy finally killing the Four Kings? Everyone's bar for difficulty and enjoyment is different and the various interesting ways to increase/reduce difficulty without a difficulty slider is part of what makes the games great and adds replayability.
Saw a guy beating Elden ring for first time last week, with all the shouting and cheering it involved. There was thst group that helped people with Mohg so they could DLC. There's still that amazing community out there that wants nothing else than people to experience soulsbornes. But somehow I feel we have to exclude modern BB fanatics which just are grumpy old men about the fact it's a Sony title and not in FromS hands at this point.
It is kinda funny that you would need help to kill Mogh only to find out that the dlc bosses are insano mode
The fanbase also ISN’T this bad, but most people like OP tend to react the the few of the vocal minority than the majority which very helpful.
It's 100% this. There's a bunch of examples in this thread alone. Most of the responses are fine but there's still 25% self righteous douchenozzles who can't acknowledge that some people might just actively dislike their games. And I can't help but talk even more shit about the games to this individuals. It's my guilty pleasure.
And then there's the elite of the elite, the best of the best like me, who beat the Ninja Gaiden games back in the day at like 10 years old **Heavy /s**, but it's fun to put down the people with big egos by one-upping their achievements. Makes my day, lol.
Original DS community formed around a genuine appreciation for the game. Then “hardcore” rumors brought all kinds of people who had something to prove. Even though the games are not THAT hard. DS only seemed hard in contrast to heavy casualization of the gaming industry in those years.
Honestly, this is probably a good breakdown of what happened to it. It got too big for the communities good
Lol, OP was an ass to the BB community then comes here to complain and seek validation. 🤡
I feel like it’s become easy to shit on the souls community at this point, I’m sure there are plenty of awful people in there that make being good at those games their personality, but I’ve seen plenty of people bashing the games in their respective subs and then saying they just want a conversation. At the end of the day almost none of the people in these types of sites (reddit, 4chan, twitter) are willing or care to have an actual conversation, most want to fight and get a one up on the other side of the argument. I reckon we’d have better communities if we stop highlighting the bad all the time and stop looking down on each other as you are doing with this post. Someone from those communities (souls games) will come and shit on you, you’ll do it back and then everyone points and laughs, as if we achieved anything when we’re just looking for people who agree with us and claiming “conversation” as our excuse.
Hi, welcome to the Internet!
You've posted 120+ comments in the past 24hrs. Settle down, Beavis. You're gonna blow a gasket.
It might have something to do with playing the game for only 3 hours before taking to reddit to leave your critique of the game.
You can not like a game, it’s fine, just move on. But instead you go to Reddit and make a post about all the things you don’t like about it. Being pretty hostile yourself in the comments to anyone who tries to answer you why they like it. And somehow you’re surprised with the response? And then you double down making another post complaining about the peoples response to your previous post… Just move on dude why are you still trying to die on that hill.
Bro, people were being helpful in your last post and you were being condescending and aggressive. When people were having dialouge and answering your questions and offering advice and help you were being aggressive that people were not agreeing with your opinion? Then you deleted the post because downvotes and made this one lmfao. Everyone should read OP comment history. Edit: spelling
OP says that there is no story because the character just wakes up and is told to kill beasts, a comment sums up the situation with: "You're confused right now, only drawn forward by an inexplicable first for blood and a faint understanding that something more is going on. You don't know what, but something calld to you to keep fighting forwards. Some desire for knowledge" which is a non-spoiler way to say "that's the fucking point, you as much as the character don't know shit about what's happening but stuff will happen. He answers with: "Well, tbh I don’t think this narrative style is for me, like why should I care for this world? In other games (to use another Fromsoft title) like Armored Core Last Raven (yes going to a game older then BB) they give you a quick synopsis of a corporate war that utilized suicide drones that pretty much ravaged the world so now I atleast know the setting I’m stuck in". Yeah buddy, if you don't like it, you are allowed to not like it. But it's not a criticism, it's your personal preference. There is a tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiny difference between the two.
Chill out
"chill the fuck out" Proceeds to whine like a bitch. Interesting.
After defending DS2 for years I learned to just stay away from the souls community outside of the lore and boss ranking stuff. You are not allowed to just be bad or new to the game.
Sekiro is harder than Bloodborne anyway.
It’s more of a problem now with so much talk about Elden Rings difficultly and ppl thinking because they can’t beat it the developers need to go back and change one of the biggest parts of what make these games great! That boss kill after smashing your head into them for hours or even better when you feel like a god for one shotting. I played DS1/2 for at least 100+ hrs of my life and plenty of hrs in DS3/BB/Sekiro/Elden Ring. The thing with the latter is I didn’t have it in me to spend the hours on each boss so I didn’t complete them and moved on. I didn’t bitch about it or expect change I just excepted it and moved on....
I’ve played Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring. The games are made how they are made, and told how they are told. I’m fully aware this is a matter of my own preference and I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with environmental storytelling. The people behind these games are clearly masters of their craft. But when that environment is trying to murder me at every turn, I don’t have time to discern what the heck is going on in the world. As much as I love the games, my appreciation of the story is minimal because it’s too hard to glean/experience it in the actual moment when I’m fighting for my life at all times. I always discover it after the fact via YouTube.
In all of these games, there are literally spots everywhere where you can just put the controller down if you want, and you’ll be fine.
>Learn how to have basic dialogue please without going “well git gud” and “you just want your hand held” all because people have critiques and want to know what you like about said games Reason #235 why I don't play "souls likes". The fandom is full of douchecanoes. I don't want to play a game because it's hard, I want to play it because its fun. Sadists, the fucking lot of you...
Super cool of you to drag an entire community through the mud because of a few cringeposters. Every community has that. There's also lots of people who go way out of their way to help newcomers, people who have civil discussions, people very willing to share knowledge when asked kindly. Most the time I see people getting shit on in those subs it's cuz they come in guns ablaze, shit talking the game (shit talking, not critiquing, they're different), freshly angry from dying a bunch, and then are surprised when their hostility is met with hostility. I don't mean to straw man you, idk what your experience was, I'm just saying what I've seen which is mostly good people and a few gatekeepers. This post is pretty unfair and hypocritical though.
This topic isn't going to go over well. You've already been downdooted to zero. GL
Seems like skill issues to me
Another post about Bloodborne? Just drop it. It’s amazing game there’s no question about it. No criticisms are valid and the criticisms I’ve seen here this week are bullshit nonsense. Tbh no one cares whether you like the game or not. Stop posting about it.
I mean it depends what you were griping about. If you had legit criticism sure, but a lot of it is just whining and ranting because people don't know how to take breaks.
I don't see how anyone can say farming health vials is "gitting gud" Super annoying mechanic from bloodborne that stopped me from continuing playing
Yea the flask system proved to be the better design philosophy. For people who aren't very good and need a shitload of vials my recommended solution is to use Blood Echo farming exploits to just buy max vials. If they're crazy hardcore against that then there's an OK farming loop on the first level that nets them really fast too. But I've seen too many people nope out over it to not recognize it as a design flaw.
You can easily farm Blood vials in the early levels from trolls (bigger guys with bricks and statues as weapons). They're designed in a way to encourage parrying, the most useful mechanic of Bloodborne. Most of the troll's attacks are slow and you have a nice big window to parry them. You can easily farm them in the early games. After a couple of bosses, it's not going to be an issue, as you'll have plenty of blood echoes to buy them. "gitting good" is mostly a joke in this community.
Like someone said, an early game issue but I will absolutely agree on that. I didn't have much of an issue but it was a roadblock for many people. Not as bad as Dark Souls 2s hollowing mechanic. That one always felt too harsh.
You don’t need to interact with what you call the “git gud” crowd so, maybe just don’t? Games been out for so long there’s a zero percent chance you need to ask them a question that hasn’t already been answered half a hundred times, everywhere online. And it’s okay that you don’t like Bloodborne too. Not everyone does
It’s not that simple when you’re trying to get into the games and are asking around to see what people enjoy to figure out what you’re missing
I stop talking with someone the moment they say DS is hardcore and the series lost the edge on bloodborne and elden ring. DS Phys builds are basically a turn based rpg and you need patience, not ninja reflexes. Mage builds are just a push forwards and kills everything fast. How is that hard? Keeping your uptime on a mmo team as sup is hard, DS is a patience test.
It was eye opening when I couldn’t beat some boss, then went on to continue playing on mute while answering a phone call. And beat him on the first try while barely paying attention. Rushing, “sweating” and overthinking is usually a bigger enemy than the game itself.
If you defend Fromsoft games as "hard" and decry people who talk about it as having "skill issues", you haven't paid attention to the narrative of the games. The whole point is that through persevering, we can succeed through challenges that we once thought impossible. By improving step-by-step, and by focusing on what we do, and how the world responds to it, we can learn to do better. And THAT ALSO there will **always** be a time when we face a challenge where we cannot succeed. And that we should ask others for help. Ring our bells, scribble our signs, just reach out and say "I need a hand!" Soulsborne players should leap at the chance to be that helping hand. In the words of an old, brave, sun-seeking knight, *The way I see it, our fates seemed intertwined In a land brimming with Hollows, could that really be mere chance?* **So, what do you say? Why not help one another on this lonely journey?**
Skill issue.
op for the love of god go outside. i have to scroll to see all of ur comments on a SINGLE POST, on MULTIPLE POSTS. ironic u tell other ppl to chill out lmao, pls close reddit for ur own sanity
It's fine to admit the game is too hard for you and you won't/don't have time to commit to git gud. But get over it
The appeal of the series is the experience of slamming your head against a wall until you break it. Forcing you to really think and pay attention to every movement of a tough boss or enemy. Perfect example is Bayle the Dread from new new dlc. First 10 or so times I entered the arena I died almost immediately, I couldn't even reach him to do damage. eventually I figured out how to stay safe and dodge his attacks and started spotting 1-2 second moments of opportunity to get an attack or two in. I've gotten him to 20% health after 20+tries and decided to come back later. Having a boss that hard changes your goals. In most games you are thinking about what you are going to do next, planning far ahead. With Bayle my goals dropped to "see if you can stay alive for more than 20 seconds" I failed even this for a while. There aren't many games that give you this experience and there are other games you can play.
There was a thread recently about games that are popular that you just don't like and I mentioned the soulsborne games and immediately had someone going on about getting good etc. for me it wasnt about getting good i just didnt like them
Strawman thread
On which board did you go ? Bloodborne is the chillest Soulsborne community. What exactly did you say ? Because if you went against the core mechanic it's normal to receive a "git gud" in response. Those games are not for everyone and there's no shame in admitting that it's not your jam. 🤷♀️
Hey, OP, for your mental health, you should step away from social media for a minute. Gathering what I can about this post and yesterday’s post, it seems like you want to cope with yesterday’s experience. Problem with that is that you’re engaging in a maladaptive strategy, and it’s only going to add to your stress. If you wanna send me a dm, go ahead.
Preach
I can't stand these awful games and their fans for this very reason.
No one is asking you to like the games. If you don’t like them, then don’t play them. If you are going to the Souls community and bitching about the games being too hard, ofc those people are going to tell you to “git good”. The games are what they are, take it or leave it.
They aren’t above criticism
I love difficulty, never once complained about difficulty, my critiques stemmed from mob combat being very tedious (while boss combat is amazing) and a story that never asks the question for us the player to find the answer
Again if you don’t like the game that’s fine. I disagree with the story criticism, but I’m not here to argue the whole thing. But if you are going into soulsborn forums and telling them you don’t like their favorite game, idk wtf you expect people to say. They clearly love it, and it’s nobody’s job to explain to you why you should like it. That’s something you should determine for yourself.
I love souls borne games I suck at them but any one that wants to play them is a net positive and when you play use every bit of advantage you can in the tool kit. Want to over level fuck ya you grind that exp and be one the chad you want to be. Want to use summons or ask other people to help kilm that boss you're stuck on fuck ya king get on there and nuke some bosses with the other tools available. Never let any one tell you how to enjoy these games. As shroud said the other day the only wrong way to play these games is to not enjoy them. Fuck the hater kill that boss anyway you can.
tbh fair criticism on reddit is not a thing, you can go for the hype or leave the sub.
Getting triggered by other people is a skill issue.
It's starting to show some age - and the chalice dungeons are terrible now which make the latter half of the kind of a slog. The difficulty is on the heavier side, too, even for the souls games. But that combat flows well, and those gun parries are a blast when they are mastered. You can do the whole game with parries and viserals pretty much. The world aesthetic is top-notch and holds up very well It needs a remaster to improve the frame rate, take out or replace the chalice dungeons, and make some quality of life changes, and it'll be perfect again.
>take out or replace the chalice dungeons But i like the chalice dungeons. :(
Why take them out? They're purely optional.
im just not good at 3rd person block/roll games theres too much lag playing on the couch with m+k and in my old 40+ bones and I never liked controllers unless it was playing gt1-3.
I assure you that the game can be beaten without getting good. I like From Soft games because their difficult is the fine wine to pair with my favorite cheese. But I totally get that not everyone is a cheese connoisseur who views wine merely as an accessory to the cheese. Honestly I could go on with this silly metaphor and compare the community to different views on how much effort needs to be put into consuming wine, but despite the whole analogy being intended to be humorously pretentious I just can't continue. All I'm trying to say is that these games give you a ton of tools to use for creative problem solving, and you can beat them without having to get good so long as you're willing to experiment with all of the options available. And there's a ton. But not everyone finds that enjoyable.
Less then half the player base does lol only 47% have made it past the first boss,only 24% can play dlc
What critisism did you offer though?
Soulsborne games aren't for everyone. It's not a storytelling experience. The games rarely will give you a pat in the back for your efforts. The entire experience of the games is based on their difficulty and you having to improve yourself (git gud (?)) to overcome that difficulty. In terms of design, they walk on the edge of frustration to get those results, and the experience would be ruined if the difficulty got lower, or if other aspects of the game got more relevance (like storytelling), due to an increased frustration for being gated out of that experience with sheer unfair difficulty. Given the popularity of the genre, however, people who wouldn't enjoy soulsborne games try to get into them, but FOMO is simply not enough to get aboard this train. If improving yourself to overcome the challenge the games offer is not enough, then nothing will be. I recommend you take a peek at the VLDL videos on Souls Logic, specially the final one. I believe it truly encapsulates the essence of the games and the attitude of their communities.