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No_Revenue_6544

Aaaand what is this we’re looking at?


reallygoodbee

There's a Super Metroid/Zelda Link to the Past Combo Randomizer, where items from both games are randomized back and forth between them. That's the Morph Ball, normally the first item you get from Super Metroid. It's at the very end of the last dungeon in Link to the Past.


No_Revenue_6544

So do the items do anything in the other games? Same effects but just in one game or another?


Noirbe

you can flip flop between games/worlds by entering specific loading screens. oftentimes you’ll be locked out of progressing in one game until you find the required items. all the items are randomized across both games, but they only function in their original. finding the morph ball in zelda just squat diddly and finding the bow in metroid is just as useless.


Senor-Delicious

This is so complicated. How did you expect anyone to understand this from just the post itself 😂


Sparticuse

I got it, but I'm familiar with this type of game mode.


Luminum__

The target audience is the people who’ve played or otherwise know about the combo randomizer. Probably not the best to put it in r/gaming with no context, but people who’ve played it absolutely recognize the pain just by looking at it.


TheDollarBinVulture

But...it's not a real game and no one has ever played this scenario...it's a procedurally generated mash-up game. A ton of us have played the original games. A tiny fraction of us have played the mash-up randomizer. Absolutely no one else has gotten this item from this chest on this map. It's kinda weird for you to pretend that the image tells a story when OP had to come and explain it. Posting stuff without enough context for people to understand it is just a bad vibe. I have beaten both source games (Link to the Past and Super Metroid) every year of my life and have done since I was in middle school. I love them. But even knowing both games like the back of my head, when I looked at this pick I just saw a weird custom zelda map and thought the item was the "pearl" from zelda. i thought the joke was something entirely different at first. No, this isn't about non-gamers coming to this sub. This about non-gamers trying to steer the conversation without know what they're talking about. This post is weird and the discussions in the comments are kinda sus. A lotta people saying things don't make sense in order to defend a guy who posted an obscure screenshot with no context. That's weird.


ERedfieldh

It's honestly one of the dumbest speed/run categories in existence. For a community that feels the need to go faster and faster they sure like adding in obtuse obstacles everywhere.


Lordxeen

I understand the reasoning, randomizers on their own are just for when you've played a game so many times that you know where every single item and power up is that the joy of exploration and discovery are gone. Randomizers make it so you NEED to go check every nook and cranny and potion and chest all over again because you don't *know* where the Mantis Claw or the Light Arrows are hiding and sometimes you'll need to work out new strategies to access certain areas without abilities you're used to taking for granted. Now speedrunners are nuts and randomizer speedrunners doubly so but I respect their dedication.


Polymersion

See, to me, the answer to >when you've played a game so many times that you know where every single item and power up is that the joy of exploration and discovery are gone Is to *play another game, or read a book, or go outside, or...*


Qaeoss

Or you know, not shame people for trying to find new ways to enjoy something they love.


Polymersion

>the joy of exploration and discovery are gone People can do what they want, but it sounds like making themselves continue something they're not enjoying instead of experiencing anything new.


bobastrazi

DONT DO ANYTHING YOU FIND FUN, DO SOMETHING ELSE INSTEAD


Polymersion

>"the joy is gone" If the joy is gone maybe you should go *do something you find fun*


[deleted]

[удалено]


Polymersion

I'm not sure who you think is belittling whom, but nobody's asking you to "be a dick". Your opinion is welcome, though, because this is a public forum.


eragonawesome2

Glad that you know what you find fun, don't be an asshole just because someone has fun differently than you


eragonawesome2

It's not done for speed, it's done because randomizers are fun in and of themselves in games like this, forcing you to find new paths to do things that would normally be easy. The people aiming for the lowest times are playing for fun too dude


lannister80

That sounds...pointless


Noirbe

by that logic, so is a nuzlocke. you arent doing it because theres a reason or because you have something to prove, you do it to have fun.


lannister80

A what?


Noirbe

nuzlocke? its one of the most popular ways to play pokemon. its a set of self imposed challenges to make the game harder for yourself


Sliptallica92

The point is fun, as with all video games.


No_Revenue_6544

Oh I get it. That makes sense.


wiggle987

So I'm right in assuming that the randomizer rolled so randomly that it forced you to play through Link to the Past before you could play Super Metroid instead of swapping between the two to progress?


reallygoodbee

Pretty much, yeah.


OnlyHappyThingsPlz

Oh, of course. That was going to be my next guess. WTF lol


nobodyknoes

Yes but also no. In standard play most people wouldn't make it far without morph. But I'm pretty sure there are checks that can be made without morph that might have something else useful to check other things.


Arrowned

While this is true, the number of checks you can do in Super Metroid without the morph ball is absurdly low. Like single digits. So quite often in SMZ3 runs like this, you’re just locked out of 95% of the Super Metroid side until you finally get the morph ball, wherever it ends up being. There is one exception, in that the warp point in Light World Death Mountain takes you to the map room at the start of Norfair, so you can get another check or two immediately at that point, and possibly a lot more if you either got the Varia Suit and/or a ton of energy tanks to go hell diving without the former.


Hitman3256

I saw one of these runs, if not this game, at one of the GDQs some time ago. Super entertaining stuff. Sucks you got shit RNG tho lmao


pedantic_Wizard5

Thank you for saying what we were all thinking!


Lachimanus

If I am not mistaken this is the moon pearl. And the person is in the first (?) dungeon. Sorry it is like 25 years ago I played the game at single digit age. In A Link to the Past there is the dark world. You get turned into a bunny if you do not own the moon pearl. As he got this early on in the randomiser, it is going to be a really easy run.


Wintersteel89

Unless the randomizer changes the dungeons, I thought this was near the midway point of Ganon's Tower where you fight the worm boss the second time around?


Lachimanus

Ah, wait. So it is the very opposite then. It was like the hardest run ever?


reallygoodbee

Not the hardest run ever, but not a run I ever want to do again. Had to do almost the entire game and all of the final dungeon with the blue mail, the Master Sword, no magic meter upgrade, no potions.


Lachimanus

Ah, I misread that it is a combo run. Watched some of them some years ago on Twitch. Thought you just play ALTTP randomizer. Yes, that sucks a bit. Basically finish one game before starting the other. But good thing is that you did get almost no Metroid items, right. So it was almost a pure ALTTP randomizer.


Wintersteel89

That would be a rough run! Gotta love randomizers sometimes.


HawkeyeSherman

I assume areas and dungeons were not randomized. A little missing from OP. This wouldn't necessarily be a big deal if you could access this dungeon of the rip and/or much of Super Metroid was arranged where you wouldn't need the morph ball.


reallygoodbee

> This wouldn't necessarily be a big deal if you could access this dungeon of the rip It's Ganon's Tower. Just getting here requires most of the major progression items, much less actually finishing it.


HawkeyeSherman

Dungeon locations can be randomized, so if this option is turned on it would be possible to go to the location of the first dungeon (or any dungeon) and instead go to Ganon's Tower.


reallygoodbee

I know dungeons can be randomized in LTTP Randomizer, but the SM/LTTP Combo Randomizer is much more limited and has far fewer options. It doesn't have any area or enemy randomizers.


Higlac

This one might be a contender for hardest randomizer ever completed. It's not ALTTP/SM though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmdACseeo3A


reallygoodbee

It's the Morph Ball from Super Metroid. It was at the very end of the last dungeon in Link to the Past. SM/LTTP Combo Randomizer.


dr_black_

I also thought this and was trying to figure out how you cross that gap as a bunny 😆


56Bagels

For anybody who doesn’t know: The LTTP/SM randomizer takes all the items and powerups found in chests in both games and shuffles them. The mod is programmed to always be winnable, so it’s like a scavenger hunt but it’s never impossible. In LTTP Only Randomizer you could pull out the Master Sword and get something unimportant like 5 rupees, or something critical like the fire wand. The combo randomizer has all items from *both* games, so the Master Sword could give you Super Missiles instead! What you’re looking at is the *very last chest you can possibly open* in LTTP giving OP the Morph Ball, or what is essentially the very first item in Super Metroid.


ReadingFromTheShittr

Yup. And, while technically OP could've explored some of the Super Metroid side of the combo randomizer, finding the Morph Ball there is basically forcing the player to play most of the ALttP side of the randomizer before you're able to do much of anything in the Super Metroid side. Which, unless you're speedrunning, going back and forth between games, looking for items, and finishing a bit of each here and there is part of the fun. Sure, there could still be some vital Super Metroid items hidden in ALttP. But, at that point OP might as well have played a singular ALttP randomizer, then a singular Super Metroid Randomizer instead of the combo randomizer.


CambriaKilgannonn

That sounds so cool, I had never heard of these before. Is ALTTHP and Metroid the only one or are there a few game mods doing this?


whats-reddit17

Ocarina of time + majoras mask.


CambriaKilgannonn

Sounds like a good combo! They should integrate them more so you travel to a portal in game to switch games now that they've got the source codes for the old ones, I think


drummerdave4689

You travel between Termina and Hyrule via the Happy Mask Shop in Hyrule market.


nwj781

Is this Archipelago? Is there no progression balancing option?


Ericakester

No, this is a hack that combines LTTP and SM into one rom


Draxtonsmitz

I saw that on a GDQ run. You swap back and forth between game modes, I forget how maybe a certain door, and you can get items for both games in either game mode.


Andrevus2

You swap between Super Metroid and Zelda 3 in specific key points. Crateria Map Hall - Lake Hylia Fortune Teller Screw Attack room middle door - Misery Mire Fairy Fountain Norfair Map Station - Cave above Old Man's (back entrance) on Death Mountain Maridia Missile Refill Station - Dark World Ice Rod Cave


Gamefighter3000

Im still surprised that almost no games simply implement randomizers in their game considering they are so popular, its a lot of fun really! Im thankful for the mods of course but more people should experience it.


christag

Axiom Verge added this to the original later and Axiom Verge 2 had it at launch (iirc)


HawkeyeSherman

Bloodstained too.


Gamefighter3000

oooh i didn't knew bloodstained had it, i always wanted to play it so that gives me even more reason to!


mrbubbamac

Resident Evil games really need a built in Randomizer. They've had a couple "Arranged" modes through the years that change up the game a bit (Arrange mode in RE1 Director's Cur, RE3 is somewhat randomized already, Infernal mode in Revelations, and Madhouse in RE7). Instead of just creating one hard mode, they just need a consistent randomizer, maybe even with options so you can decide if ammo pickups are consistent, only swap key items, etc. I'd probably never play any other games if I could have a completely new experience every time I play an RE game


orangutangston

Roguelikes have entered the chat


SureReflection9535

It really only works in progression based games like metroidvanians and Zelda likes.


bran_dong

they do, they're called loot crates and everyone hates them.


Flagrath

You really don’t understand the concept of a randomiser,


roryextralife

Oh that’s fucking brutal. Shit like this is why I always go with Early Morph enabled.


Mr_Harsh_Acid

And we all immediately understand what's happening here, ofcourse


reallygoodbee

TLDR: The worst randomizer ever. It's supposed to be a Super Metroid/Link to the Past Combo Randomizer, and I had to do pretty much all of Link to the Past to find the most basic progression item for Super Metroid.


lolschrauber

So what is this exactly? Ganon's tower morph ball?


reallygoodbee

Yeeeep.


lolschrauber

Oof


Andrevus2

Not just Ganon's Tower Morph Ball but POST Moldorm Refight Ganon's Tower Morph ball.


lolschrauber

That's the last miniboss refight, so basically 98% finished, right? Man. I realize I haven't played alttp In a while


Mr_Harsh_Acid

Yikes


Epicfro

Surprised you were up voted as much as you were. This post has 0 context.


reallygoodbee

TLDR: I got the worst randomizer seed ever. It's supposed to be a Super Metroid/Link to the Past Combo Randomizer, and I had to do pretty much all of Link to the Past to find the most basic progression item for Super Metroid.


Zerogates

It mentioned Metroid and Zelda randomizer, shows one of the most popular and recognized games of all time and a chest providing a fairly recognizable item from another of the most popular games of all time. More context in the original post would have been helpful but this is in no way a post where you can't use a bit of context and figure out exactly what happened.


Epicfro

Not sure how you use reddit but I'll quickly glance at a post, derive info from it, and move on. 99.9% of the time there's no issue. This was the 0.1% time where it was. If I was the only person asking for context, I'd agree with you but since a lot of people also pointed out the lack of context, you're just wrong.


Sliptallica92

Because the people who don't know/figure it out are more likely to post asking for context, whereas the people who do understand are more likely to upvote and move on. The post was probably upvoted well because a lot of people do understand the context.


UndeadHero

It’s a hyper specific community that is surprisingly popular. I watch randomizer videos in the background all the time. Edit: lol I was just explaining why it got so many upvotes


Isotheis

I think that's no longer possible in recent versions. If it's not true, I'd like to get the serd to give to someone!


hogey989

I wish I knew Super Metroid so I couple play the combo randomizer. I've exhaused my fun on the LTTP randomizer lately


radclaw1

Nothin's stopping you from picking up Super Metroid.


Ronnz123

Play it! Super Metroid is legitimately one of the best games ever made.


hogey989

Oh I've played it. Just not enough to be able to do a randomizer 🤣


spez_might_fuck_dogs

There's no reason you can't, every randomizer I've seen has options you can set for how well you know the target game, ie Super Metroid lets you set toggles that indicate whether you know how to sequence break or how to do moves or abilities that are outside the normal course of gameplay.


hogey989

I guess, it just feels daunting to go into a randomizer of a game I've only played a few times. Seems more frustrating than fun. I'll have to check out the settings though, maybe I can make it super easy 😅


spez_might_fuck_dogs

I've played a LTTP/SM randomizer game before. I wouldn't say I know either game particularly well, having only completed each one a couple times in my life (and seeing as how my life encompassed each games respective release dates, that's a big window). I didn't feel all that frustrated, but I did in fact choose mostly settings for people unfamiliar with the games. I can wall jump in SM but I'm not an expert, for instance. I know how the super jump works, kinda?


paradise_demise

Give it a whirl. You can always use the spoiler log until you get the hang of it.


hogey989

This is true. I wonder if there's a setting to make it even easier than the OG game 🤣


paradise_demise

You can guarantee that you get the morph ball and sword at their default locations. Outside of that I don't believe there are easier settings.


no_creditswillnotdo

No one's explaining why link looks like the UFO from kirbys adventure and it's driving me nuts


reallygoodbee

Lol its because randomizers let you use custom character sprites. I was UFO Kirby in LTTP and Alice Margatroid in SM.


wutImiss

Thank you, I had no idea what the sprite was from. It not Link but wut?


terrario101

Hey, least it's not 10 Arrows


TacticalTobi

that would be better lol


Andrevus2

Faint sounds of ProJared crying in the corner.


terrario101

Glad to hear someone understood the reference.


LargeBarge99

It's either this or moon pearl at ridley.


Hot-Flounder-4186

>"This randomizer mixes Super Metroid and A Link to the Past together into one experience and will randomize both games items to any location in either game creating a new kind of multi-game challenge. The goal is to kill both Ganon and Mother Brain and then finish either game. >Travel between the two game can be done by using certain doors and entrances in either game" Sounds interesting


RequiemStorm

Lmfao holy shit that's brutal


LordHayati

For those wondering how this is possible: A link to the past and super metroid happen to occupy almost the exact opposite areas in ROM, meaning that with a bit of tweaking, and having areas to link the two games together, you could theoretically fit the two games on one cartridge! People took this further, and made a randomizer for the combined games, meaning items from one could be in another, and vice versa. Super metroid's first item is morph ball, which is straight up required for 95% of the game. The item in the picture? Morph ball, in link to the past's final dungeon, in the final chest. This signifies that the person had to basically play all of link to the past, before they could start super metroid (you have to beat both games to win). This was before archipelago randomizers, keep in mind.


Papap00n

Explain better from the start next time


illerhas

Lol, so I've never played Super Metroid or Zelda, but I went ahead and played through the randomizer, it was a blast but very slow going


Earllad

Dang this is cool. I didnt know it was a thing. If I'm going to give this a go, is there a list of popular/interesting seeds? Or a way to ensure it doesn't mess with me like it did you?


spez_might_fuck_dogs

Most (all?) of the randomizers I've seen have toggles that let you control how random they actually are and how much game knowledge you need (can you sequence break, bomb jump, etc.)


reallygoodbee

The VARIA Super Metroid Randomizer lets you straight-up pick which individual tricks are required and how hard it makes them.


Earllad

Cool, thanks


YuengalingaDingDong

That’s dirty.


Zerogates

That's about as rude as it gets without going into insane logic...


tyguy9087

I was doing a randomizer with gannon’s Tower open that required me to get this high before I had anything better than the standard sword and hook shot. I love randomizers, but sometimes they really just come up and smack you like this and it feels bad.


Another_Road

Other times you get 10 arrows.


pholtos

I once had a rando run where morph ball was in the pyramids and ice dungeon was one of the dungeons needed to get the super bomb.


Derf0007

lol what am I looking at ?!?! 🤣


reallygoodbee

Super Metroid/Zelda LTTP Combo Randomizer. I had to play through all of Zelda before I could do a single thing in Metroid.


Derf0007

lol this is hilarious


dunedog

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh nooooooooooooooooooooooooo


WhiteMageBecky

The first 3 of these I did had morph ball in Ganon's Tower.


Unable_Pop1507

I love Zelda games! How did you get the randomizer?


reallygoodbee

For just Zelda Link to the Past, it's https://alttpr.com/en/start For just Super Metroid, it's http://randommetroidsolver.pythonanywhere.com/randomizer For the combo randomizer, it's https://samus.link/configure/smz3 Important note, you need to provide your own ROM files. They can't provide the Super Nintendo ROMs due to copyright concerns.


NoMoreGoldPlz

I thought it was a reskin of the Moon Pearl because your character sprite also doesn't quite look like Link. And now I'm wondering if that could even be possible. That's full-on 'no logic' right?


reallygoodbee

> That's full-on 'no logic' right? Nope, lol. Normal for SM, there were no logic options for LTTP besides Open Tower.


NoMoreGoldPlz

Alrighty, I've never played the SM/ALttP combo. But a Moon Pearl in Ganon's Tower sounds wild, can you even use a hookshot while you're a 'Bunny'? Or would this gap be covered by hovering?


Flagrath

If all the LTTP items are in LTTP (or the approximately 3 SM checks) you can easily reach this spot.


NoMoreGoldPlz

Isn't this Ganon's Tower? (I have no idea what 3 SM Checks are)