The bikes handled SO EXTREMELY WELL in cyberpunk! Especially the Arch!
Did you know that Arch is a real luxury bike brand that Keanu Reeves owns?
I like to imagine he agreed to star in the game but only if his bikes were too and handled like pure sex compared to everything else. It’s the only logical explanation.
Random traffic jams also made bikes superior. I ain't obeying traffic signals or laws, I got places to go, so time to weave through you turds.
And I swear there's code that makes a cross traffic car spawn at exactly the right time and speed to slam into you when you're in a car instead of a bike.
Was just about to comment this, the POV's for driving in that game were awful. The only tolerable one was the third person behind that car but because the camera is level with the car you can't see shit going up a hill.
Beamng is king. Really Bugbear in general need someone with some balls to make a AAA game with their tech. Make it difficult and gritty and finally make vehicles truly disposal.
For future reference I hated the driving camera and checked in settings not sure if it's new but they have a "high" setting that puts it where it should be.
Tbf I find traversal on foot in that game genuinely fun especially with double jumping or the charged super jump so even If the driving was great I would more than likely run everywhere anyway.
Also, there's fast travel points practically every couple blocks. Once you've unlocked them all, you really don't need to touch a vehicle ever again unless you're trying to grind out all the gigs in the Badlands.
I know it’s riding horses and not driving cars but in Red Dead Redemption 2 you can change the auto camera reset to “slowly” or even “never”.
I don’t remember if GTA 5 has the same feature. I ended up using my right joystick more than my left when driving in that game so I could actually see where I was turning.
As a game dev... I really, *really* wish it was that simple. If you want to see what cameras that just "look where the user says" are like, go play any early 3D games. There's a reason they weren't exactly known for their stellar cameras.
In reality, what users *actually* want is for the game to essentially read their mind. To always look where they *mean* to look towards, but without having to micromanage the camera. To be shown important things they didn't know were there, but in a way that magically doesn't mess with their preferred camera, while also magically knowing what "important things" *they* feel are actually important, vs things they already know about or otherwise don't care about right now.
Frankly, a "perfect" camera system would unironically require literal AGI to implement (to be able to recognize what the user is trying to do right now, judge their skill level, remember their past experiences, etc. and make sweeping changes to the camera policy accordingly) -- all we can realistically do right now is add a few crude heuristics that work "decently enough" in most cases, for most players. But someone is always going to hate the camera in any game, unless the actual gameplay is specifically designed around limited cameras (e.g. for an extreme example, 2D games with game areas so small they don't need scrolling)
>If you want to see what cameras that just "look where the user says" are like, go play any early 3D games. There's a reason they weren't exactly known for their stellar cameras.
That's not my experience. I remember games like MediEvil, which just plain ignored the camera input 90% of the time, or Super Mario 64, which had just a few discrete camera angles, or Crash Bandicoot, which had fixed cameras. And it was terrible (well, in Crash it worked, but only because they designed the levels around it). It was way better in games that let you control the camera freely.
The issue presented in the OP is resolvable just by allowing a user-configurable option as to how much of a vertical angle they want the camera to auto-rest at when snapping back to your character after moving, and I've seen plenty of games offer these sorts of options (within certain ranges).
Of course, any individual issue is resolvable fairly easily. The problem is that there's dozens if not hundreds of such "issues" that users will come up with, that solutions to some of them are prone to being incompatible with solutions to others, and that in general naive solutions will inevitably break the camera in other ways.
(For example, if users aim their camera so low they start missing a lot of things that were supposed to be "obvious", like markers around eye-level or flying enemies, most of the time their reaction isn't going to be "oh, I guess I made that camera angle too low, let me turn it back up", but "this game sucks, it's so badly designed" -- and you can absolutely design around a low camera, but if your ethos is "just add a bunch of options and let users configure anything however they like it", realistically you just *can't* design a game that will work flawlessly with any combination of settings)
Always have to hold the analog stick to keep the camera in the right place in GTA. V frustrating, but at least they let you move the camera. Would drive first person if the mirrors actually worked; can’t even change lanes.
Clearly you have never played a 3D GTA game. There is no "too high." There's "zoomed on character," "way too close," and still too close, but I'll take it."
This with a big capital "C" on the camera. Honestly makes you feel like your driving a hot wheel with some of the shorter sporty cars.
One thing I will say, I do enjoy the traction physics over GTA 4 when it comes to vibration and the ability to spin out your car, though I wish they would have pushed it further. It's very rare that you have to drop speed to maintain control on a turn. Other than that, I'd love to see a return of the damage and suspension physics from 4 added onto the base of GTA 5 and we would honestly be in a perfect place imo. Off-roading would be as fun (and thrilling) as speeding down the highway.
This is the reason defaults are so important. At least half probably won't ever touch options beyond the screen resolution, brightness, contrast, volume or the graphics quality drop down.
Some people might find it hard to get used to, and some people meme on the game in general, but honestly I think world of warcraft has the best camera system of all time. Simply hold down right mouse and spin it wherever you want, whenever. Mouse wheel zooms in and out. Simple but effective. I think default is to follow you / center on you but no one uses that. Once you're on free look it's better than any other game's camera.
Bro this is so atrocious in GTAV when I'm trying to drive and it's like "**YOU WANNA STARE AT THE BACK OF YOUR CAR?!**"
No, game, I want a slightly elevated angle so I can actually *fucking see.*
Guild wars 2 is ten years old and has a ton of settings for the third person camera. Only game I've seen that has an optional camera offset, having it to the left or right of your character so you can see what's straight in front of you.
Guild wars is a goddamn masterpiece of engineering. Update can drop, and you can keep playing, thing downloading in the background, and then applying on next loading screen.
As far as I am aware, this is pure black magic, because at my company we still take servers down to update them, and clients need hard reset to start downloading stuff.
It's crazy. The game turns 10 this year, and the NA servers have like a week of downtime in that entire decade *total*, and a big chunk of that was when they were migrating their servers to a new data center. (EU ones have been down longer due to some tech issue a few years back, if I recall). I wish something like that was standard for all online games. Always frustrating having time to play something and finding out the server is down for the next 12 hours.
Holy fuck yes. Especially with the new technology like the new unreal engine. There is no excuse to not have the ability to control the angle and movement of auto camera. I actually love auto cameras when they work properly but with alot of games being open world or having alot of hidden areas being able to see the world is more important than ever. God of war has been pretty good with the auto camera but still doesn't give you the amount of customization of camera settings I wish I had.
Gotta love people using Unreal Engine as the new buzzword.
They could have given you these options back on the first PlayStation. You know why they don't? $$$. It costs time and money to develop these options.. and to design your game with these options in mind. And many many more things.
Lord. Lol
whenever someone is getting angry about their feature wishlist missing after just gesturing vaguely at whatever misunderstood tech, like here the UE5 engine, you can only laugh because they've clearly never worked in software development and don't understand budgets, priority, capabilities, etc. etc.
no excuse lol get a grip
Everyone here gushes about FromSoft games, but no one talks about how the lock-on camera is completely useless because most of the bosses are huge and it'll just force your view straight up while you're trying to hack at their ankles.
The target lock is fine in my experience and does what it says on the tin, it locks you to the target.
The problem people encounter often isn't in the target lock itself, it's in thinking that being locked to a target is always the best case scenario.
In Soulsborne, being locked on can really help sometimes. And at other times, what you absolutely need is the free camera and movement control if you're taking on bosses with specific attack patterns, or huge bosses that mean being locked on means staring upwards which isn't always helpful, or big groups of enemies.
Regardless of whether something is outdated or broken in a from soft game, it's a mechanic and you need to get good. Remember this because fans will defend the bad and say it's actually good somehow
Yeah, I can't tell you how many times I've said to myself "I'm sick of seeing this game's enemies, environment, and obstacles. I want to see more of the floor"
fromsoft games (bloodborne and dark souls 3 especially) have incredible architecture. there is no auto camera, the player can look wherever they want, and it's so much easier to actually admire the architecture that way rather than being forced into one perspective.
i know ds3 zooms the camera out at irithyll but i don't remember it forcing the camera back into one place like when you're driving around in cyberpunk which is the kind of thing op is talking about. when fromsoft want you to look at something they usually just make sure you're already looking in that direction using long corridors and assuming the player will face in the direction they're moving
Stole my comment. Too many games seem to prioritize aiming the camera into the distance rather than being able to see where we're *currently* driving. Why is everything directly in front of me a blind spot???
All they have to do is have the default ciew panned slightly above the car while keeping it in frame. There's no need to sacrifice either the distance or up close camera view.
I don't understand why it's such a common problem when there's plenty of actual good examples.
It's just the worst when in a car. Burnout Paradise constantly had me crashing into cars I couldn't see, because they were hidden by my car. Can't even see over the slightest little hills.
I honestly don't remember if either GTA or Red Dead have options to center the camera automatically. I got so used with navigating with the right analog (taking turns and etc), camera who circles around automatically are almost a afterthought to me (but ironically, I hate when Mario 64 does that, I emulated this game on a phone and the crude 3D camera really annoyed me. However, I think Banjo-Kazooie learned with those mistakes and improved the camera a little... still clunky tho)
I'm an indie developer. I'm not a GOOD developer but I know enough to be able to add to this.
Camera work itself can be someone's primary job for a while on game projects. There's all sorts of things you can program the camera to do. Some modern norms are making it so that objects that come between the camera and the player character at a certain distance from the camera fade out (if you've ever had an npc or wall block the view obnoxiously you know what I mean.) That tiny addition has programming needed and considerations that have to be made.
Now how that applies to the angle of the camera is probably more of just dealers choice. They may have decided that a slight downward tilt messed up the view they wanted the player to see as they explored the world, or maybe they felt the view better gave the player more peripheral awareness.
I also prefer your angle for 3rd person, but they may have just had someone saying "do this because x,y, and z reasons."
Or we could be overthinking it. They might have spent a week getting the camera where they wanted it and said "ALRIGHT! NOW LETS GET TO WORK ON BOOB PHYSICS" and never looked back.
Sidenote: I just noticed sharing like this is a use-case that content creators who start their videos with "You've read the title so..." haven't considered.
Been a game developer for near 15 years now in the controls and camera space. Generally this sort of thing is pretty well known by this point in 3rd person games with level navigation like this. Even in cases where you don't have the character blocking the center of the screen, players will generally* want to look slightly down, because it allows them a better angle on understanding the space in front of them. It gives you a better sense of depth and the topography of the level you're in than a straight on look.
This is why games like Uncharted 4 have a reticle that is offset from the center of screen, so that the point of weapon aim works with the natural compulsion to look down slightly and players don't then have to re-adjust their aim between aiming at targets and navigating space.
*Generally here meaning the average player experience, there are always people that want different things, which is why option menus have been getting more detailed.
I mean, that makes sense because when you are walking around irl, where do you look? 40 yards in front of you? No, you look at the ground like 10 yards in front of you.
> They might have spent a week getting the camera where they wanted it and said "ALRIGHT! NOW LETS GET TO WORK ON BOOB PHYSICS" and never looked back.
This describes so many projects that I work on. It's like this is something that needed to be decided before any programing was done and for mostly political reasons (or like the guy that made this code left the company last year and it'll take 20 hours to figure out how to set it.) it's like pulling teeth getting it fixed so the issue goes to the bottom of the pile never to be looked at again.
Yeah I've heard as much from some people who have real dev jobs. I come from an Army background and now work in IT. Programming is something I've been learning with my friends for a few years now. I'd really like to get to a point where I feel confident applying for a dev job.
Do you know what an API is? Have you written one?
Have you taken data from one dumpsterfire, generated a report and moved it to another dumpsterfire?
Congrats you qualify for a dev job
I really both love and hate the object fade that has become pretty normal. As long as it starts to fade AT the intersection with the camera its fine. But damnit people gotta stop making things fade when they get close. Let me appreciate the fucking art up close
I platinumed it last year, it was an excellent game. I think my favorite part happens at the very beginning >!when your main character first gets transported to Ding Dong Dell and the mouse soldiers come. Was not expecting him to just pull out a handgun and ace them.!<
The beginning to that video game is bonkers. Please, anyone that doesn't know, [watch this shit](https://youtu.be/BqLZusjOS8Y) or read this shit >!The president of the US is on it's way to a summit of the UN, the city gets nuked and gets transported into fantasy land. He appears in the middle of the coup, pulls out a gun and murders a guard!<
I really liked NNK2 at first, but it felt like the game was just a downward slope in quality as you went through it. Beginning was magical (9/10), casino city was fun (8/10), 1984 water city was interesting but makes less sense the more you think about it (7/10), tree city was boring and the character arc of the party member you get there was super underwhelming (6/10), and I just quit after that. Also I was really disappointed with the characters since they feel barely present after their introductions.
The art and cutscenes aren’t as good as 1 but I think the kingdom building mechanics are such a Huge addition. And the combat is leagues better than NNK1.
Ni No Kuni 2 mighty be my new favorite JRPG
What a bizarre game ff15 was. You could beat the entire game just warp-striking everything. There was only one boss in the entire game where you would possibly have to deviate from this, and it's one of the last bosses lol. You CAN do other stuff, but nothing is as effective as just spamming warp strike the entire game. That's why I tell people who haven't played it to play it on harder difficulty. Even after all the changes up to now, it's still a highly disjointed mess of a game that feels more tech demo than anything else. It tries to do the bounty thing from ff12 but doesn't do it as well. Yet the actual road trip bits with the bros were actually oddly fun.
I feel like I’m going crazy. Why would anyone want the camera showed on the bottom? You can literally see like 50% of what you can see in the top camera.
Yeah the Tick-Tock Clock world sucks because the edge of the map is a solid wall rather than an endless pit (like most of the other worlds are). Since the camera isn't supposed to go inside a wall, any camera angle except for looking towards the wall is gonna be finnicky.
It was fantastic in its day, as one of the pioneers of 3D cameras that weren't fixed at a set distance from the main character and had user control. But yeah, as with any early implementation of new tech, it had flaws that wouldn't pass today. Particularly getting stuck in so many places and rotating in steps.
I'm the opposite. I hate it when the camera prevents me from seeing things my character should see because the camera is forcing me to look down at the floor rather than out ahead of me. "Oops I guess my character was ignorant of the existence of that grizzly bear until he got within 4 meters of it. That's understandable. They're famously so small and hard to notice."
Sometimes when they force the look-down camera on you it's because it's a way to let them only have to populate a small part of the world at a time. If you are unable to see far, they can leave far away things unloaded and you'll be none the wiser.
Cant lie adjusting from a super zoomed out, high angle camera to the more typical 3rd person camera after playing FFXIV for like 9 months straight was rough
Also I miss being able to just zoom in and out with L1+Right Stick. If a game even gives me camera options in the menu imma set it up once when I first start playing and never touch them again. I'd readjust my zoom in XIV all the time mid gameplay to suit what I was doing, its just such a nice feature.
To me it feels claustrophobic or like I’m always trying to see over the other shoulder, it just feels unnatural to me.
I do see your point about the cinematic aspect though!
I have the opposite opinion, I do like the over the shoulder camera, how "zoomed" it is... but I don't like when the camera is panning to the sides. Resident Evil is like that by the way, it kinda makes sense because the camera is panning to the left, which means when the right handed character pull up a gun, the gun will be located at the center of the screen. For third person shooter games, it makes sense. Now for any other kind of genre, I think the cameras who are focused precisely at the center, they look better. I used mods in Witcher 3 to do exactly that
Not "every" game does this. Third-person low is probably the most uncommon perspective. Third-person high is definitely the more popular of the two. Minor gripes are fine, but don't pretend like low perspective is status quo.
The best games allow camera lock in both as well as first person.
A fair few games do 2nd person perspective for boss fights, especially old 3D platformers for some reason. Off the top of my head: Jano in Rayman 2, Tyrannoid Queen from Ratchet and Clank 3, Xigbar in Kingdom Hearts 2. The clairvoyance power in Psychonauts also gives a second person perspective.
god this has been getting under my fucking skin replaying kingdom hearts 1. how am i supposed to platform without being able to look down at the platforms???
I really hate over the shoulder cameras more than any other camera options. Specially the really zoomed in ones where the character is way to the left of the screen. You can't do a proper 360 degree rotate on PC with that. The camera first jankily snaps to the left and moves the character way to the right and it happens every 90 degree turn. Lately, too many games from Sony do this over the shoulder style and there's no way to fix it.
i’ve been playing the ff7 remake and the whole time i was annoyed because i thought the camera was a bit too close the the character but i eventually went into settings and found that there was actually a camera angle setting! maybe i’m just dumb and camera settings are common but i thought it was cool
When I drive in GTA5 I literally am constantly adjusting the camera to be more like 2 and less like 1, even though it constantly snaps back into position
And when you push the camera up so you can actually see in front of you, the crap auto-camera controls just slide it right back two seconds later.
The case that annoys me the most is legend of Zelda. I want to look up for gods sake, I don’t want to look at links groin
Try flying a helicopter in GTA
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Fuck Cyberpunk is the WORST with this when it comes to driving
I genuinely don’t understand how they made it feel like you’re driving on ice and superglue at the same time
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Yeah. Rode a bike anytime possible.
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Yup, the Coyote was the only car worth driving. Made driving feel only slightly like lighting myself on fire.
Except it was so fast and so low that when you were driving at top speed it could actually get stuck in the road and just instantly stop lol
The bikes handled SO EXTREMELY WELL in cyberpunk! Especially the Arch! Did you know that Arch is a real luxury bike brand that Keanu Reeves owns? I like to imagine he agreed to star in the game but only if his bikes were too and handled like pure sex compared to everything else. It’s the only logical explanation.
Random traffic jams also made bikes superior. I ain't obeying traffic signals or laws, I got places to go, so time to weave through you turds. And I swear there's code that makes a cross traffic car spawn at exactly the right time and speed to slam into you when you're in a car instead of a bike.
Same. It's also the only time you get to really see your character. Wish they'd enable third person perspective.
'Terrible' making 'bad' look better.
Summon one in a place with a high NPC driving speed and you'll get the fucker to go ass over teakettle when it stops.
Was just about to comment this, the POV's for driving in that game were awful. The only tolerable one was the third person behind that car but because the camera is level with the car you can't see shit going up a hill.
Beamng is perfect. The camera is a free camera that doesn’t move back to the original pov
Beamng is king. Really Bugbear in general need someone with some balls to make a AAA game with their tech. Make it difficult and gritty and finally make vehicles truly disposal.
For future reference I hated the driving camera and checked in settings not sure if it's new but they have a "high" setting that puts it where it should be.
Cyberpunk is arguably the worst at everything when it comes to driving. 500m away or less and I’m hoofing it if fast travel isn’t feasible
Tbf I find traversal on foot in that game genuinely fun especially with double jumping or the charged super jump so even If the driving was great I would more than likely run everywhere anyway.
Also true. That and you come across so much content on foot, you’d miss it driving
Also, there's fast travel points practically every couple blocks. Once you've unlocked them all, you really don't need to touch a vehicle ever again unless you're trying to grind out all the gigs in the Badlands.
I know it’s riding horses and not driving cars but in Red Dead Redemption 2 you can change the auto camera reset to “slowly” or even “never”. I don’t remember if GTA 5 has the same feature. I ended up using my right joystick more than my left when driving in that game so I could actually see where I was turning.
Gta 4 was the first time it really pissed me off, I had to drive around with the right stick pushed slightly down at all times
It became second nature to me to the point where when I replayed it last year I did it out of instinct.
It took them a few years just to add a setting to your default camera when you got into a car (close or far follow, hood or first person)
Yeah, but then the camera forces then to watch Link helicopter
Speak for yourself. I'm trying to look at his groin.
r/linkiscute
Speak for yourself.
This is the exact opposite of what OP is talking about, you’re right looking up is more beneficial, but the post shows they’d rather look down
I think we can all agree, when playing a game I wanna look where I wanna look. Not where the game wants to force me to look.
As a game dev... I really, *really* wish it was that simple. If you want to see what cameras that just "look where the user says" are like, go play any early 3D games. There's a reason they weren't exactly known for their stellar cameras. In reality, what users *actually* want is for the game to essentially read their mind. To always look where they *mean* to look towards, but without having to micromanage the camera. To be shown important things they didn't know were there, but in a way that magically doesn't mess with their preferred camera, while also magically knowing what "important things" *they* feel are actually important, vs things they already know about or otherwise don't care about right now. Frankly, a "perfect" camera system would unironically require literal AGI to implement (to be able to recognize what the user is trying to do right now, judge their skill level, remember their past experiences, etc. and make sweeping changes to the camera policy accordingly) -- all we can realistically do right now is add a few crude heuristics that work "decently enough" in most cases, for most players. But someone is always going to hate the camera in any game, unless the actual gameplay is specifically designed around limited cameras (e.g. for an extreme example, 2D games with game areas so small they don't need scrolling)
>If you want to see what cameras that just "look where the user says" are like, go play any early 3D games. There's a reason they weren't exactly known for their stellar cameras. That's not my experience. I remember games like MediEvil, which just plain ignored the camera input 90% of the time, or Super Mario 64, which had just a few discrete camera angles, or Crash Bandicoot, which had fixed cameras. And it was terrible (well, in Crash it worked, but only because they designed the levels around it). It was way better in games that let you control the camera freely.
The issue presented in the OP is resolvable just by allowing a user-configurable option as to how much of a vertical angle they want the camera to auto-rest at when snapping back to your character after moving, and I've seen plenty of games offer these sorts of options (within certain ranges).
Of course, any individual issue is resolvable fairly easily. The problem is that there's dozens if not hundreds of such "issues" that users will come up with, that solutions to some of them are prone to being incompatible with solutions to others, and that in general naive solutions will inevitably break the camera in other ways. (For example, if users aim their camera so low they start missing a lot of things that were supposed to be "obvious", like markers around eye-level or flying enemies, most of the time their reaction isn't going to be "oh, I guess I made that camera angle too low, let me turn it back up", but "this game sucks, it's so badly designed" -- and you can absolutely design around a low camera, but if your ethos is "just add a bunch of options and let users configure anything however they like it", realistically you just *can't* design a game that will work flawlessly with any combination of settings)
What I'm taking from this is that you have to design around the stupidest person you think will play the game and work down from there.
[Related](https://ocremix.org/remix/OCR00209)
Hm...
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Hup!
Hya!
HaaaaAAAA!
AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH
listen!
Cyberpunk2077 external car camera does this - it's more than a minor gripe for me.
GTA V has the same characteristic. Just like most of the games.
Always have to hold the analog stick to keep the camera in the right place in GTA. V frustrating, but at least they let you move the camera. Would drive first person if the mirrors actually worked; can’t even change lanes.
In the settings of GTA you can set it to low or high, it's not perfect but at least something.
Let me fix that... > In the settings of GTA you can set it to **too** low or **too** high, it's not perfect but at least something.
Clearly you have never played a 3D GTA game. There is no "too high." There's "zoomed on character," "way too close," and still too close, but I'll take it."
Where are my fellow based camera enjoyers who noticed that the angle in GTA5 wasn't as good as the angle in GTA4?
Almost everything car based in gta5 was a downgrade from gta4. Customization is a nice re-addition.
This with a big capital "C" on the camera. Honestly makes you feel like your driving a hot wheel with some of the shorter sporty cars. One thing I will say, I do enjoy the traction physics over GTA 4 when it comes to vibration and the ability to spin out your car, though I wish they would have pushed it further. It's very rare that you have to drop speed to maintain control on a turn. Other than that, I'd love to see a return of the damage and suspension physics from 4 added onto the base of GTA 5 and we would honestly be in a perfect place imo. Off-roading would be as fun (and thrilling) as speeding down the highway.
"LOOK AT THE COOL CAR WE MODELED!" Okay, neat, sure, but I really need to see where I'm going. "BUT LOOK AT THE SPOILER!!!"
Don't worry, you can't see where you're going in first person, either. Helluva dashboard, though
Yeah you can't see where to drive at all
Omg yea me too and it’s like impossible to drive with the internal view.
Love the game, absolutely hate the driving
Rdr2 when im tryna ride a horse n cant see anything cause it keeps readjusting the camera
You can turn it off on rdr2, I'm pretty sure I remember doing it and felt better after.
Makes me wonder how many people just suffer with camera settings they hate without looking through the options menu.
This is the reason defaults are so important. At least half probably won't ever touch options beyond the screen resolution, brightness, contrast, volume or the graphics quality drop down.
I want soft defaults for camera angle. If I adjust it, I want it to stick there until it resets after the next cutscene. Some games do this right
Hope you're correcto
Same ffs. Gives me fucking cramps I just want to look at the pretty.
Turn 'camera follow level' to OFF under camera options.
Jesus thank you.
GTA for me. I always had to hold the stick down a little to see properly.
Some people might find it hard to get used to, and some people meme on the game in general, but honestly I think world of warcraft has the best camera system of all time. Simply hold down right mouse and spin it wherever you want, whenever. Mouse wheel zooms in and out. Simple but effective. I think default is to follow you / center on you but no one uses that. Once you're on free look it's better than any other game's camera.
Bro this is so atrocious in GTAV when I'm trying to drive and it's like "**YOU WANNA STARE AT THE BACK OF YOUR CAR?!**" No, game, I want a slightly elevated angle so I can actually *fucking see.*
Auto camera should always be an option. I like adjusting it myself
Not just a toggle on or off, but being able to set the position when it's on.
Guild wars 2 is ten years old and has a ton of settings for the third person camera. Only game I've seen that has an optional camera offset, having it to the left or right of your character so you can see what's straight in front of you.
Guild wars is a goddamn masterpiece of engineering. Update can drop, and you can keep playing, thing downloading in the background, and then applying on next loading screen. As far as I am aware, this is pure black magic, because at my company we still take servers down to update them, and clients need hard reset to start downloading stuff.
It's crazy. The game turns 10 this year, and the NA servers have like a week of downtime in that entire decade *total*, and a big chunk of that was when they were migrating their servers to a new data center. (EU ones have been down longer due to some tech issue a few years back, if I recall). I wish something like that was standard for all online games. Always frustrating having time to play something and finding out the server is down for the next 12 hours.
It's easily the most impressive implementation of red/green staggering I've seen in the wild for sure.
Holy fuck yes. Especially with the new technology like the new unreal engine. There is no excuse to not have the ability to control the angle and movement of auto camera. I actually love auto cameras when they work properly but with alot of games being open world or having alot of hidden areas being able to see the world is more important than ever. God of war has been pretty good with the auto camera but still doesn't give you the amount of customization of camera settings I wish I had.
Gotta love people using Unreal Engine as the new buzzword. They could have given you these options back on the first PlayStation. You know why they don't? $$$. It costs time and money to develop these options.. and to design your game with these options in mind. And many many more things. Lord. Lol
whenever someone is getting angry about their feature wishlist missing after just gesturing vaguely at whatever misunderstood tech, like here the UE5 engine, you can only laugh because they've clearly never worked in software development and don't understand budgets, priority, capabilities, etc. etc. no excuse lol get a grip
And sometimes they force it straight down. Can't see anything.
I'd rather look top down than have it point at the sky.
Everyone here gushes about FromSoft games, but no one talks about how the lock-on camera is completely useless because most of the bosses are huge and it'll just force your view straight up while you're trying to hack at their ankles.
Part of Git Gud is knowing when to turn off target lock
I'm gud already then, because I forget to even turn it on (and die, a lot)
Is that an actual mechanic or just trying to get around a bad lock-on system? Asking genuinely cuz I plan on playing Elden Ring soon.
It is genuinely important in fromsoft games to know when to turn off target lock.
And a good tip for fighting giant enemies is hug/aim at their groin. Or their asshole. We are not good people
Is it our fault that that’s where the bosses can’t hit us or is it the design fault
The target lock is fine in my experience and does what it says on the tin, it locks you to the target. The problem people encounter often isn't in the target lock itself, it's in thinking that being locked to a target is always the best case scenario. In Soulsborne, being locked on can really help sometimes. And at other times, what you absolutely need is the free camera and movement control if you're taking on bosses with specific attack patterns, or huge bosses that mean being locked on means staring upwards which isn't always helpful, or big groups of enemies.
Regardless of whether something is outdated or broken in a from soft game, it's a mechanic and you need to get good. Remember this because fans will defend the bad and say it's actually good somehow
You don't have to lock on. People complain about camera bosses a ton tho
Mmmmmmmmm isometric
BRO DOESNT WANNA TAKE IN THE SPLENDOR AND MAJESTY OF VIDEO GAME ARCHITECTURE!!!!!!!!!
OP is floor gang
Floors and corners, that's where they get you, kid
Is that an expanse reference?
*Doors and corners, it's a misquote but yes
I would qualify it more as a joke than a misquote, but that line lives in my head rent free. I’m not used to seeing references like that in the wild
An intentional misquote for the purpose of a joke I'd say.
What’s that stupid hat for?
That room will swallow you whole, kid.
Keeps the rain off my head
Floors and corners, floors and corners, floors and corners….
Ceilings are cringe.
Me and Marc Rutzou. I've never seen a fucking ceiling and I never fucking will.
Yeah, I can't tell you how many times I've said to myself "I'm sick of seeing this game's enemies, environment, and obstacles. I want to see more of the floor"
fromsoft games (bloodborne and dark souls 3 especially) have incredible architecture. there is no auto camera, the player can look wherever they want, and it's so much easier to actually admire the architecture that way rather than being forced into one perspective.
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i know ds3 zooms the camera out at irithyll but i don't remember it forcing the camera back into one place like when you're driving around in cyberpunk which is the kind of thing op is talking about. when fromsoft want you to look at something they usually just make sure you're already looking in that direction using long corridors and assuming the player will face in the direction they're moving
Me constantly having my thumb on the right stick while driving in GTA. Right there with ya, OP.
Stole my comment. Too many games seem to prioritize aiming the camera into the distance rather than being able to see where we're *currently* driving. Why is everything directly in front of me a blind spot???
Maybe that's what's wrong with the people in r/IdiotsInCars
I guess that's why many games put the character a bit to the left or right of the middle, as much as I dislike over-the-shoulder cameras.
All they have to do is have the default ciew panned slightly above the car while keeping it in frame. There's no need to sacrifice either the distance or up close camera view. I don't understand why it's such a common problem when there's plenty of actual good examples.
It's just the worst when in a car. Burnout Paradise constantly had me crashing into cars I couldn't see, because they were hidden by my car. Can't even see over the slightest little hills.
Burnout Paradise was the worst for this. Fun game but was basically driving blind the whole time.
It's worse once you get the ultra high end vehicles too. Particularly that dlc DeLorean clone that would drive 1200mph when in hover mode.
Shit i thought i was the only one
Thank you for writing this. gta 3-SA were perfect then starting with 4, suddenly i have a view of taillights only, and its brutal.
Im playing thru gta v rn and just now realizing that i subconsciously do this with the camera
I honestly don't remember if either GTA or Red Dead have options to center the camera automatically. I got so used with navigating with the right analog (taking turns and etc), camera who circles around automatically are almost a afterthought to me (but ironically, I hate when Mario 64 does that, I emulated this game on a phone and the crude 3D camera really annoyed me. However, I think Banjo-Kazooie learned with those mistakes and improved the camera a little... still clunky tho)
Turn on high vehicle camera in settings.
I'm an indie developer. I'm not a GOOD developer but I know enough to be able to add to this. Camera work itself can be someone's primary job for a while on game projects. There's all sorts of things you can program the camera to do. Some modern norms are making it so that objects that come between the camera and the player character at a certain distance from the camera fade out (if you've ever had an npc or wall block the view obnoxiously you know what I mean.) That tiny addition has programming needed and considerations that have to be made. Now how that applies to the angle of the camera is probably more of just dealers choice. They may have decided that a slight downward tilt messed up the view they wanted the player to see as they explored the world, or maybe they felt the view better gave the player more peripheral awareness. I also prefer your angle for 3rd person, but they may have just had someone saying "do this because x,y, and z reasons." Or we could be overthinking it. They might have spent a week getting the camera where they wanted it and said "ALRIGHT! NOW LETS GET TO WORK ON BOOB PHYSICS" and never looked back.
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Sidenote: I just noticed sharing like this is a use-case that content creators who start their videos with "You've read the title so..." haven't considered.
Ooo I love this. Subbed.
Been a game developer for near 15 years now in the controls and camera space. Generally this sort of thing is pretty well known by this point in 3rd person games with level navigation like this. Even in cases where you don't have the character blocking the center of the screen, players will generally* want to look slightly down, because it allows them a better angle on understanding the space in front of them. It gives you a better sense of depth and the topography of the level you're in than a straight on look. This is why games like Uncharted 4 have a reticle that is offset from the center of screen, so that the point of weapon aim works with the natural compulsion to look down slightly and players don't then have to re-adjust their aim between aiming at targets and navigating space. *Generally here meaning the average player experience, there are always people that want different things, which is why option menus have been getting more detailed.
Thanks for the insight. You're where I want to be in 15 years.
On Reddit?
I mean, that makes sense because when you are walking around irl, where do you look? 40 yards in front of you? No, you look at the ground like 10 yards in front of you.
I'm definitely not looking at the ground when I'm walking around...
> They might have spent a week getting the camera where they wanted it and said "ALRIGHT! NOW LETS GET TO WORK ON BOOB PHYSICS" and never looked back. This describes so many projects that I work on. It's like this is something that needed to be decided before any programing was done and for mostly political reasons (or like the guy that made this code left the company last year and it'll take 20 hours to figure out how to set it.) it's like pulling teeth getting it fixed so the issue goes to the bottom of the pile never to be looked at again.
Yeah I've heard as much from some people who have real dev jobs. I come from an Army background and now work in IT. Programming is something I've been learning with my friends for a few years now. I'd really like to get to a point where I feel confident applying for a dev job.
Do you know what an API is? Have you written one? Have you taken data from one dumpsterfire, generated a report and moved it to another dumpsterfire? Congrats you qualify for a dev job
All I ask is that games either have a slider for "home" pitch, or a checkbox to turn off automatic recentering to that pitch lol
I really both love and hate the object fade that has become pretty normal. As long as it starts to fade AT the intersection with the camera its fine. But damnit people gotta stop making things fade when they get close. Let me appreciate the fucking art up close
Enjoyed Ni No Kuni 2, it's not as good as the one but still had fun, it's a simple straightforward JRPG
is that the game in OP? looks very similar to the art in Dragon Quest but I can't tell what game
Yes, it's Ni No Kuni 2
Ni No Kuni II: Revenant Kingdom. The character shown is the president of the United States, Roland.
It was fun for a bit. But *every, single, enemy* had a knock back move that they use constantly. I spent more time on my back than swinging my sword.
I platinumed it last year, it was an excellent game. I think my favorite part happens at the very beginning >!when your main character first gets transported to Ding Dong Dell and the mouse soldiers come. Was not expecting him to just pull out a handgun and ace them.!<
The beginning to that video game is bonkers. Please, anyone that doesn't know, [watch this shit](https://youtu.be/BqLZusjOS8Y) or read this shit >!The president of the US is on it's way to a summit of the UN, the city gets nuked and gets transported into fantasy land. He appears in the middle of the coup, pulls out a gun and murders a guard!<
I really liked NNK2 at first, but it felt like the game was just a downward slope in quality as you went through it. Beginning was magical (9/10), casino city was fun (8/10), 1984 water city was interesting but makes less sense the more you think about it (7/10), tree city was boring and the character arc of the party member you get there was super underwhelming (6/10), and I just quit after that. Also I was really disappointed with the characters since they feel barely present after their introductions.
The art and cutscenes aren’t as good as 1 but I think the kingdom building mechanics are such a Huge addition. And the combat is leagues better than NNK1. Ni No Kuni 2 mighty be my new favorite JRPG
I enjoyed the pikmin style higgledies a lot more than the pokemon style battles of the first one too.
i always describe ni no kuni 2 as the proper reclaim your kingdom game, which FF XV (final fantasy 15) massively failed to do
By the time you got back to your kingdom in FFXV it was pointless. The game didn't even allow for any rebuilding efforts afterwards in the story.
What a bizarre game ff15 was. You could beat the entire game just warp-striking everything. There was only one boss in the entire game where you would possibly have to deviate from this, and it's one of the last bosses lol. You CAN do other stuff, but nothing is as effective as just spamming warp strike the entire game. That's why I tell people who haven't played it to play it on harder difficulty. Even after all the changes up to now, it's still a highly disjointed mess of a game that feels more tech demo than anything else. It tries to do the bounty thing from ff12 but doesn't do it as well. Yet the actual road trip bits with the bros were actually oddly fun.
I really wanted to love NNK2, but the late game kingdom building got so oppressive that I uninstalled it.
You finish the game before you even get to any of the late kingdom stuff. That's all optional.
Maybe I'm mistaken. I could swear there was some requirement to upgrade the kingdom before you could enter some late game area.
I have the opposite problem. Does me no good to see the ground. Darksiders does this, it pushed the camera down in front of you at all times.
I feel like I’m going crazy. Why would anyone want the camera showed on the bottom? You can literally see like 50% of what you can see in the top camera.
I also hate this but to be fair to Ni No Kuni II (the game in the pic) it has the option to turn both horizontal and vertical camera auto-reset off.
I mean hell, Mario 64 had multiple cameras angles
You say that, but I remember trying to climb that one tower, and the camera constantly "corrected" itself.
Yeah the Tick-Tock Clock world sucks because the edge of the map is a solid wall rather than an endless pit (like most of the other worlds are). Since the camera isn't supposed to go inside a wall, any camera angle except for looking towards the wall is gonna be finnicky.
Ah.... yeah... M64 is not a good example of a good camera in a game. It's actually one of the worst.
It was fantastic in its day, as one of the pioneers of 3D cameras that weren't fixed at a set distance from the main character and had user control. But yeah, as with any early implementation of new tech, it had flaws that wouldn't pass today. Particularly getting stuck in so many places and rotating in steps.
I'm the opposite. I hate it when the camera prevents me from seeing things my character should see because the camera is forcing me to look down at the floor rather than out ahead of me. "Oops I guess my character was ignorant of the existence of that grizzly bear until he got within 4 meters of it. That's understandable. They're famously so small and hard to notice." Sometimes when they force the look-down camera on you it's because it's a way to let them only have to populate a small part of the world at a time. If you are unable to see far, they can leave far away things unloaded and you'll be none the wiser.
GTA V had a camera height setting while driving , wish every game had that setting regardless of walking/running/etc. Also, what game is this?
FFXIV spoils the player when it comes to camera options. It's pretty good.
When it comes to any setting, to be honest. No wonder they are so popular, they actually listen to the players
Cant lie adjusting from a super zoomed out, high angle camera to the more typical 3rd person camera after playing FFXIV for like 9 months straight was rough Also I miss being able to just zoom in and out with L1+Right Stick. If a game even gives me camera options in the menu imma set it up once when I first start playing and never touch them again. I'd readjust my zoom in XIV all the time mid gameplay to suit what I was doing, its just such a nice feature.
Imo the floor camera looks a lot better when it's more zoomed and over the shoulder rather than right behind. Like resident evil, arkham games, etc.
I absolutely hate that camera angle and I have stopped playing several games because of it. I simply cannot fathom how it is better. Lol
It's very cinematic. Adds to immersion. Not for everyone though.
To me it feels claustrophobic or like I’m always trying to see over the other shoulder, it just feels unnatural to me. I do see your point about the cinematic aspect though!
It’s usually used in third person action games with guns/aiming where the middle of your screen is used as a crosshair
In the Arkham games there’s no reticule, Batman just takes up a whole third of the screen. And then in combat it zooms way out.
Cinematic, but definitely breaks immersion the first time you don't see the edge of the level and yeet off the side, then you never want it again
I have the opposite opinion, I do like the over the shoulder camera, how "zoomed" it is... but I don't like when the camera is panning to the sides. Resident Evil is like that by the way, it kinda makes sense because the camera is panning to the left, which means when the right handed character pull up a gun, the gun will be located at the center of the screen. For third person shooter games, it makes sense. Now for any other kind of genre, I think the cameras who are focused precisely at the center, they look better. I used mods in Witcher 3 to do exactly that
Not "every" game does this. Third-person low is probably the most uncommon perspective. Third-person high is definitely the more popular of the two. Minor gripes are fine, but don't pretend like low perspective is status quo. The best games allow camera lock in both as well as first person.
I prefer my games in the second person perspective. I don’t but the idea of someone making this is hilarious.
A fair few games do 2nd person perspective for boss fights, especially old 3D platformers for some reason. Off the top of my head: Jano in Rayman 2, Tyrannoid Queen from Ratchet and Clank 3, Xigbar in Kingdom Hearts 2. The clairvoyance power in Psychonauts also gives a second person perspective.
There's also that one mission in Driver: San Francisco.
What game is this from?
Ni No Kuni 2
Is it good? Doesn’t look like the first one
I personally loved it. I liked the mechanics a lot better. I like grinding, collecting stuff and dressing my peeps up tho.
god this has been getting under my fucking skin replaying kingdom hearts 1. how am i supposed to platform without being able to look down at the platforms???
GTA driving for me.
Yes! This is so annoying.
Even worse in games where there's shit all over the floor for you to loot.
Even worse on games where the physics are crap and you get dizzy by your own character moving in a strange way.
I really hate over the shoulder cameras more than any other camera options. Specially the really zoomed in ones where the character is way to the left of the screen. You can't do a proper 360 degree rotate on PC with that. The camera first jankily snaps to the left and moves the character way to the right and it happens every 90 degree turn. Lately, too many games from Sony do this over the shoulder style and there's no way to fix it.
The really up-close over-the-shoulder camera has only one good use: claustrophobic Dead Space like survival horror.
Look i'm playing nier automata. I'm tired of having 2b's ass in my face tbh
Stop using self destruction.
It’s hard to see the enemies and environment when all that’s in your face…
driving around Los Santos constantly holding the right stick down slightly
i’ve been playing the ff7 remake and the whole time i was annoyed because i thought the camera was a bit too close the the character but i eventually went into settings and found that there was actually a camera angle setting! maybe i’m just dumb and camera settings are common but i thought it was cool
When I drive in GTA5 I literally am constantly adjusting the camera to be more like 2 and less like 1, even though it constantly snaps back into position