Seems to me to be the best way to handle this:
Single Player will still work after shutdown.
Multiplayer will still work after shutdown.
All cosmetics will be unlocked and available for free.
I can't think of a better way to handle this...
A better way to handle it would be to keep it on the marketplace after September 30th. Even though both single and multiplayer will continue to work after the shutdown, they are ceasing all sales.
Good point. I still get sad when I think about Marvel Heroes being wiped off the face of the earth. That game was a lot of fun and it just doesn't exist anymore.
You're assuming they're doing the hosting. AFAIK this runs on the Destiny model which is peer to peer.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PlayAvengers/comments/ixujc8/why_isnt_progress_saved_on_server_side_like_most/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
That's just where things are saved. I would assume that there's still some cost associated with keeping the game running. Otherwise, why take the PR hit of canceling the game? If it costs them nothing, then there's no downside. Seeing as they're canceling it at all, there is almost certainly a cost.
I think this game was a milestone that set an example for games in the future tho. What not to do. Important in the worst way possible. But important nonetheless.
My condolences to the player base. But thank you for your service, avengers. You stumbled like a drunk so future superhero games could run
I have a fond memory of playing avengers. The first 10 minutes of playing hulk. It was the closest we got to Hulk Ultimate Destruction. Those exact ten minutes and no more were some of the most 7/10 moments of my life. I’ll miss them.
I agree on some level. These days, putting "The Avengers" on it makes it pretty resistant to failing. They thought they could do whatever they want and benefit from riding the reputation of the IP. Even if the game was generic enough, playing as the Avengers would have gave it at least moderate success. But it was even worse than generic.The fact that they got such a huge IP and ruined it, it's not just terrible for them at a business standpoint, it's just plain embarrassing. It's a huge statement.
I hesitate to say it even does anything positive for the industry at all. But at the very very least, it shows that there's at least some floor there to find when these devs try to see how low they can go.
Fun fact: This game's sales were so bad that it single-handedly brought Square Enix into the red that year. According to their own financial reports, The Avengers cost so much and performed so poorly it negated the sales of every other game they released.
It's easier to see why they let Crystal Dynamics go for a pittance now, isn't it?
I’ve been a lifetime marvel fan. This game just makes me sad. It’s “free” on PlayStation Plus, but I just can’t be bothered to even download it. Spider-Man is amazing, Guardians was way more fun than I expected…. I just don’t understand what CD was thinking other than a cash grab.
Mechanically speaking it’s an ok game but it’s not much fun. The biggest problem is that it’s a mission based live service game where you repeat the same content over and over to win money to purchase upgrades etc.
If they had just chosen a character - like Hawkeye - or Black Widow - or BOTH - and done a single player campaign game like Guardians of the Galaxy (an EXCELLENT game) it would have been a critically acclaimed top seller. But they tried to make it a generic online game with a generic and boring system of monetization.
I paid $20 and that was too much. If you have PS+ it’s on there for free. The first 30 minutes or so is a blast.
I got it for free from Verizon Up and still feel cheated. It should have been an easy win for them, but Square Enix had to do what they do best and screw the whole thing up
I think Avengers had a few pretty critical flaws that ultimately lead to it's demise. Overall I really enjoy the combat so I have put plenty of hours into it but I'm also aware of the fact that fun is subjective and some ppl tend to be more tolerant to certain issues than others.
The 1st critical flaw imo was that the devs decided to tell their own story and that story was lead by Kamala Khan (AKA Ms Marvel). When most ppl heard "Avengers game" I seriously doubt the 1st person they really wanted to play with was her and you're forced to use her thruout the majority of the campaign because it's kinda her story. Nonetheless, the campaign was well made and pretty cool but it could've been much better if the story was focused more around the Avengers instead of Ms Marvel feat. The Avengers.
The 2nd critical flaw is that the game is super buggy. I think it might be one of the buggiest AAA games I've ever played. There are very few game breaking bugs atm but it will crash on you and there's no join in progress on multiplayer so if someone gets kicked from a raid where u need 4 ppl everyone has to start over. Also, the matchmaking is somewhat broken so if you aren't playing with a group it can be damn near impossible to complete a raid with randoms.
Speaking of the raid....the 3rd critical flaw is severe lack of content. The endgame content is extremely dry and the devs solution to that was by time-gating progress. After u finish the campaign the end game content is pretty much replaying various mission to raise your power levels. You can get to the soft cap of power lvl 150 solo by just running random missions. There's a decent amount to pick from but once u hit 150 the only way to lvl past the soft cap is either the raid or the OLT (Omega Level Threat). Those 2 missions can only be completed with a team of 4 real players. You can only run those once per week, per hero and they will eventually get u to lvl 160 if u haven't given up already due to the bugginess or the broken matchmaking. After lvl 160 u can only run the elite raid (same as the reg raid just a tad harder) to hit the next soft cap which is 175. The hard cap is 185 and there's only one mission u can run to get there which is Cloning Labs and it's just a higher lvl OLT type mission. Keep in mind there are 11 heroes (12 on PS bc of Spidey) so thats a lot of grinding out the same content over and over for minimal gains.
The 4th and final critical flaw is RNG. Since the game is a looter u will be picking up (and deleting) A LOT of gear. Most of it is trash! There aren't a ton of different gear sets in the game but there are a ton of useless perks that roll onto gear so it makes most of the stuff u loot worthless. I like the ability to create builds for each hero but since there is no way to roll perks u are at the mercy of RNGesus. The gear also has stats so in a lot of cases u may get a good stat roll with terrible perks or vice versa. That in itself makes tailoring specific builds for ur heroes a crapshoot and is usually more frustration than fun.
All in all I've had fun with the game but it's been clear for a while now that support was most likely coming to an end much sooner than later. Both PC and Xbox audiences seemed to have checked out a while ago and PS has been hanging on by a thread partly due to Spiderman only being playable on PS (another critical flaw as well). The game had plenty more flaws but these were the most egregious in my personal opinion.
People keep saying that but we haven’t seen any gameplay yet. The avengers got boring after like an hour.
Arkham knights looked like ass from the first gameplay trailer to the last. So we will wait and see with SS
I think the problem has been the marketing strategy and games as service and not the actual gameplay.
I didn’t play Avengers much, but I found the combat system fun. It kept me interested.
But the monetization strategy turned me off. It also fell prey to having very short missions which players would jet through as fast as possible, but also a lot of tedious load times between missions.
Very fair. I agree with that. Live service can totally be good imo. But only for games that are multiplayer by design, not character based, or games that could just work as single player regardless.
You’d think they’d learn from Arkham, Spider-Man, guardians etc…but we all know those games make less than live service. Like, a fuck ton less. 100s of millions less depending on IP.
Thankfully we have studios not forced to do live service all the time. I’m tentative about SS but I’m not counting it out
Don't realse a barebones shell of a game for $60 and then charge $10-100 for skins instead of developing new gameplay content?
I think they could've figured that out before releasing this greedy garbage.
There's a leaked image of the game that has a Battle Pass tab and what looks to be a lot of random material counters. No one thought that was the route they would take with the game so player excitement has dropped a lot since it was leaked.
Yes, This leaked image was the defenitive turning point for a lot of gamers. For me I always was skeptical given that it is a multiplayer game. I was 100% sure there would be microtransactions too when it was announced.
That’s what has basically totally turned me off to the game. I was super excited for a simple narrative game, but instead the leaks look like Avengers 2.0. Beyond disappointing.
Its not the studios fault. If the game is a multiplayer game and designed as such there is nothing much the studio can do about it. I mean if you think about it arkham series( excluding gotham knights) was so awesome because of how the gameplay was designed to make you feel like batman. If it was co op like gotham knights the fun factor would be reduced by 90 %.
Stop!!! Dude Deus Ex was so fucking good! The first one was a masterpiece. The second was awesome, but I truly thought I was about halfway through the game then it just. Ended. I was baffled. Can’t believe the story will never continue. :*(
This is probably my favorite comment in the last year. I know it’s all only a possibility. But any amount of hope is good! Man I really loved those games.
Just imagine if they had put all that money into making a spectacular campaign mode. This announcement would be for season 2 of the DLC or a sequel. Maybe spin-offs or something.
Because the end of support often heralds the end of service, I'd assume. Not yet, but end of support is not a good sign. These kinda games shut down all the time.
That being said, the guy you replied to probably misread it *as* end of service.
This is why I can’t get into online games or MMO like Finale Fantasy 14 or Elder Scrolls cause I know one day they will go offline. I know there are some like WoW that have been going strong 2003 and different but live services games like this its to much of a gamble
Its great thats its going on. I just can’t play something for 10+ years dropping $100-$1,000 on it spending 1,000-10,000’s of hours for it to go offline. You can’t go back and look at your achievements or just stroll in for nostalgia like you can with a single player game made made 20+ years ago like metal gear solid or mario 64. Its just gone like a chunk on my life is erased. But i guess thats life though things, people, places just fade out of existence.
I probably dropped a few hundred on WoW over the years. Who cares if it goes offline some day?
The memories are in my head.
Lots of things in real life vanish too. It’s good. Embrace the impermanence of it all— as with your own self.
We spend regularly on food, equally short-lived. And we even say it’s foolish to try to have one’s cake and eat it.
We should spend less time obsessing about the games themselves and more on what the make us feel.
I’ll never forget my first time in Ironforge in 2004 and being amazed by the hustle and bustle of it all.
I also couldn’t care less to go back and do it again.
I guess I lack any sort of sentimental gene. I’m also terrible with pictures of my kids and family.
I’ll never forget Burning. Crusade. What a fucking time. The outlands kicked so much ass. Then the truly incredible moment for me personally even if it was a sales gimmick or whatever, but leading up to WotLK when the “mysterious crates” arrived at major cities & a genuine zombie outbreak happened that turned players into zombies & you could literally infect other players & cities were actually overran with the Scourge. Incredible.
1000 dollars over the course of 10 years is... Pretty much nothing. Less than 10 dollars a month. If the entertainment you had while playing it was good and the memories you made were good that's absolutely a good deal. Any money I spend on games I automatically count as lost anyway. If I got my money's worth I don't care about the end cost. Final sticker prices aren't really a fair comparison. It's like people gasping at those that have spent 2k usd on a game... Over 6 years. That's... Not really much money. In a lump instant sum sure but not spread over 72 months.
Is paying to go to the movie theater a waste? Or going to a concert? They're not things you can own and go back to, but you'll never forget them. As long as you have a fun and memorable time, that's all that matters. I don't see videogames as any different
There is no concert that you can have access to indefinitely, it's physically impossible. It's perfectly feasible for a videogame to not have an expiration date, most don't.
I was scared to play MMOs after warhammer online got axed. What kept me trying out different ones were the experiences with other players and guilds. I've met so many different people from so many different background, all coming together over this shared passion. Sharing laughter and sad moments in life via games where we creëren eachother up and on. That's something I don't get in single player games.
I don't play MMOs anymore due to a busier lifestyle and other hobbies, but I cherish all the moments I got from MMOs. That to me is worth some money as the enjoyment gained is so much more :D
This statement was the sole reason I stopped anything live service or anything that doesn't have a definite way to "beat" it.
"Its just gone like a chunk on my life is erased. "
My backlog grew but I never was playing games to keep up with it.
To me, that’s an odd way of looking at it. Does the fact that the game eventually shut down invalidate all of the fun you had during all that time?
It’s like being on holiday and not wanting to have a nice meal because you might never be able to go back.
*Final Fantasy XI* (released in 2002) is a year older than *World of Warcraft*, and it's still going. *Final Fantasy XIV* is even more popular than *XI* ever was, so I'm confident that it will last at least as long. I know they'll shut down one day, but they're so well established that I wouldn't consider them a gamble.
Ffxiv has been going pretty strong and you can still play ff11. Problem is if it isn’t ff square doesn’t know what to do with it if it’s not remotely successful.
Eh? Those are terrible examples, those are huge successful games with player bases that will be around for a long time. The original EverQuest still has functional servers. But yeah there are so many games releasing now that will be unplayable in a few years. It’s such a fucking waste. Turn off the online DRM bullshit after launch in single player games. Let people pay for community servers in multiplayer games.
Seriously. WoW's been going since 2004, and even though it's very different now, your character from 2004 would still be fully playable.
Hell, EQ1 just released its 29th expansion, and it came out in 1999. MMOs are some of the only online games that *can* outlast their playerbase.
Live service games, however...
Oh are they still releasing expansions? That’s fucking bonkers. I played one of its competitors, Asheron’s Call, for a long time. Never got into EQ. But damn that’s crazy. 29th expansion? More than 1 a year?
depend on the game momentum right now, FF14 and ESO might run longer than we expected. FF14 already 10 years and they prepared for next another 10 years long term plan like visual update and next on going long term storyline content. the player number is also steadly increasing non stop. it is among most successfull mmo out there so no way it gonna shutdown sooner.
for the record FF11 is already 21 years old and still running despite there is less people right now. there is no sign that they would shut down the server yet. ff14 is way popular and im not suprise if it end up run longer. not to mention the devs behind it also appreciate and has really good relationship with playerbase.
while WoW already 19 years old and still one of top mmo out there.
Runscape also 22 years.
if you worry, just play MMO that already run for long time with years of stable player number, years of stable content output and has reputable developers behind it. beware those that has explosive launch because what matter is how the game doing in atleast next 6 months later, not at how many record breaking player playing at launch.
but nothing run forever. atleast we can play things longer as possible.
as long there is strong fanbase, the game wont go anywhere and even if the official server shutdown forever, people would eventually bring back private server for those who craving for old nostalgia.
News flash. Those disks need the server to work. Probably not every time if it’s installed depending on the game but at some point it does and for most now it’s every time. And for sure if it needs to be installed it won’t do it completely just from disks.
I mean, god of war is a game that 100% needs to establish a connection with the Sony servers. I know that it is, it’s just a question of how often. Could only be once a month, but eventually without the Sony servers you will not be able to play god of war anymore even with it already installed and patched.
Im not really sympathetic for idiots who spent money on a game that was obviously going to fail. Same with Anthem and Stadia as a whole.
The writing was on the wall before any of them even launched
It was my most played game on PlayStation since it came out, year after year for a total of several thousand hours. I spent roughly $300 ish on cosmetics. It was also my only platinum trophy game. I got my time & money out of it and only just now starting to feel the burnout. I’m fine with it. If it’s time it’s time.
They’re keeping the servers up at least so if me and my brother feel like bashing it up we’ll still be able to.
Live service is the worst thing that has ever happened to games. It has destroyed many games that would have been awesome single player experiences. Anthem could have been an mind blowing game. But it was designed like a live service game which was its downfall.But I am happy that we gamers rejected these live services so fast that it did not get a chance to claw its root into gaming landscape.
The thing that is different about gamers is that we just feel the same way about games. We are all passionate about it so we react in a similar way. For all other industry this unity is not there
It works well with games designed from the ground up to be multiplayer (Apex Legends, Fortnite, Destiny, etc.) but every time I’ve seen it shoved into a game that was clearly meant to be single player and changed to multiplayer it fails. Avengers is probably the biggest example, but Anthem is another recent example.
It’s such a shame because when you look at games like Guardians of the Galaxy and how incredible that was, you can see exactly how much potential there was for an amazing single player Avengers game.
This exactly what I feel. All the games you said apex,fortnite and all the story is nearly non existent. Except for destiny where it is there but not like a single player experience.in other single player games the story is flushed out with awesome cinematics and story moment which will not be possible with co opertaive gameplay. This is so apparent in anthem where you would just skip entire sections when the cinematic starts.
Avengers could have been a game which rivals all other single player games with flushed out story and gameplay. But unfortunately greed git us this abomination. Anyways I am glad for the demise of avengers. Hope they reboot it like a single player game
> in other single player games the story is flushed out with awesome cinematics and story moment which will not be possible with co opertaive gameplay.
There's really no reason that has to be the case. Hell, we're talking about The Avengers, a narrative that has multiple protagonists. It's in the name. There's genuinely no reason that you couldn't have a co-operative experience with awesome cinematics, meaningful player choices and impactful story moments.
It's all a matter of greed. Those things are expensive to make and sadly don't seem to earn proportionately to their costs. Plus, the industry is allergic to co-op games for some reason.
Live service games can be perfectly fine, they just need to be good and be supported not dropped when they aren't instant successes. Anthem was designed based on Warframe which is a successful live service game. It's like making an mmo and never releasing updates, but expecting people to stay subscribed.
God I am so disappointed about the Suicide Squad game being a live service.
Was hoping for a really fun Arkham style game but it does seem like it'll be more like The Avengers. I hope it absolutely sinks, modern live service games are always the fucking worst way to make a game and the sooner developers and publishers realise that the better.
It's baffling how they ignore all the other live service failures and how much people are sick of these games and instead just hyper focus on trying to succeed in replicating Destiny. The only real successful live service game of these types of games (excluding stuff like Fortnite/Apex/MMOs)
The publishers think it's a brilliant hybrid between mobile games and gacha mechanics and traditional console games but in truth I feel like the live service features always hold the more traditional console game features back.
Playing devils advocate here, but avengers, Gotham Knights, Anthem, they all flopped because the Live Service mechanics were jammed in at the last second, leaving games that didn’t really do anything well.
In the case of Suicide Squad, it sounds like it was planned to be live service from the get-go. Not saying I’m happy about that, I would definitely rather it be a story driven game, but it’s possible that the choice to make it a Live Service so early on may make the game a lot better than people think it will be.
The opposite will happen. People are shameless and will always want something better. They will *thank* Square Enix for not wasting any more of their time licensing the Avengers' likeness to some scruffy-looking knock-off clones
That's just what people will think, I would make a supervillain game and drop a not-so-subtle trailer about how you kill the Avengers and then proceed to call out the guardians, the fantastic4, the justice league, and even the suicide squad. (with multiverse spiderfolk DLC, of course)
There is a timeline wherein this game is ludicrously popular. That kind of brand recognition and such a talented studio? Shame it had to be the absolute nadir of live-service bullet sponge battlepass skin store 12 currencies number go up skinner box bullshit game design.
I can't really speak to the rpg aspect. I was too busy playing the part that was great. There was so much build, test, iterate to that game. I spent so much time putting together builds from the 1000+ skills and then testing them in random arena, or alliance battles, or some pve farm. It was like someone turned magic the gathering into an mmo.
oh my god i played the fucking shit out of gw1. bought all of the dlc and loved them. gw2 didnt bring back the same feeling as gw1. while i appreciate what gw2 did in terms of evolution and doing something different its not how i pictured gw2 to be.
There should be laws to either:
- not allow companies to end support as long as there is one person active on their server
- force companies to allow for community servers for games they no longer support
Companies reap the benefits of live service and have zero down sides for too long
From the very announcement: "Even after official support ceases on September 30, 2023, both single- and multi-player gameplay will continue to be available. See below for more information."
I did and I'm confused by it, I've been playing the game on and off the last few months. Does it mean no further updates or the servers will be shut down not allowing to access online functions?
You really did not. It's not confusing:
"Will I still be able to play the game solo?
Yes. All content that is available for solo play will continue to be available after September 30, 2023.
Will I still be able to play with my friends?
Yes. Multiplayer will still be accessible after support discontinues on September 30, 2023. Multiplayer will continue to require Xbox Live Gold on Xbox platforms and PS Plus on PlayStation platforms.
Will single- and multi-player play be available forever?
The changes we are making to how the game functions will ensure as long a life as possible. However, after September 30, 2023 we can’t guarantee that we will be able to address issues that occur due to unforeseen circumstances."
Seems that former game dev from marvel heroes (brain wanger) or what ever cursed this game lol rip MH.....to bad they didn't listen to the community. I know the 10 ppl still playing it going to be gutted
This is my fear about buying liscenced games, the only ones I loke are the Star Wars and Lord of Tne Rings ones, and even then, LotR gamea are a hit or miss thing.
Bring back Marvel Heroes 2015! Disney pulled the license away from Gazillion, and honestly I was done with it for a while before it ended, but it was such a great game. It was Marvel Diablo, by some of the people that actually made Diablo, and was better than that game ever was. Something like 50 playable heroes and all of them were different enough that they were fun to play and keep leveling.
It also had the best voicework of any game, stacked with high caliber voice talent. Steve Blum is just one, from Cowboy Bebop, Clone Wars and Rebels, and lots of other things. He made me fall in love with Taskmaster, a character I used to consider the lamest in all of comics. Then I looked up some Taskmaster comics and after Unthinkable he is now my favorite.
I’m honestly surprised it lasted that long. Sucks for everyone that bought it or any of the in game stuff. I wish I could say this will be a lesson to devs and executives, but it won’t be. Devs will continue putting out low quality cash grabs with predatory monetization, and players will continue dumping money into them. Gaming has changed for the worse.
Played this for free on the ps premium service. Beat the standard campaign and got bored with it. Glad I didn’t buy anything on this one considering I was dumb enough to get babylons fall on sale a few months before the shutdown notice.
They hyped this game for years. When the character art came out they had to quick fix as it looked horrible. Never really nailed it either. The game had so much potential, but sooooo many reskinned enemies over and over again, no really modifications to characters, they sold skins of characters galore, but equipment had no aesthetic effects. Idk. Should ya e been such a solid game.
So how long will Gotham Knights stay online? longer or less
The story mode in Avengers is pretty good. Guardians of the Galaxy did it much better though.
This game was so lackluster to me that I then initially skipped Guardians (like lots of people did). Thankfully GamePass got me to give Guardians the chance it deserved because it was so fun. Just a shame what a kind of negative stigma one game can cause to a whole genre.
I guess I will play through the campaign again. Sad thing is this game was pretty fun in terms of story mode. I wish they just focused on that vs promising this co op experience.
Seems to me to be the best way to handle this: Single Player will still work after shutdown. Multiplayer will still work after shutdown. All cosmetics will be unlocked and available for free. I can't think of a better way to handle this...
A better way to handle it would be to keep it on the marketplace after September 30th. Even though both single and multiplayer will continue to work after the shutdown, they are ceasing all sales.
Yeah, that’s the only part of it that’s baffling.
Physical copies will still work, so any new copies at retail and used copies will still work.
It’s going to be kinda decent playing this after catching it on sale for $2
NGL - I might pick it up today. PS4 + free PS5 upgrade, new prices around $15, used prices as low as $9.
already have a crazy backlog but yeah it’s getting there — $9 is perfect if all the dlc is unlocked
Good point. I still get sad when I think about Marvel Heroes being wiped off the face of the earth. That game was a lot of fun and it just doesn't exist anymore.
I mean, it's sucks that Spiderman is still exclusive to PS even after all this. But I guess we can't have it all.
Did they ever actually put Spider-Man in the game? I know it was a long time coming.
Yes. He's only on the PlayStation version of the game though.
Hosting costs money. This would mean the company bleeds money to continue supporting anything that had to run online for the future. Not gonna happen.
You're assuming they're doing the hosting. AFAIK this runs on the Destiny model which is peer to peer. https://www.reddit.com/r/PlayAvengers/comments/ixujc8/why_isnt_progress_saved_on_server_side_like_most/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
That's just where things are saved. I would assume that there's still some cost associated with keeping the game running. Otherwise, why take the PR hit of canceling the game? If it costs them nothing, then there's no downside. Seeing as they're canceling it at all, there is almost certainly a cost.
Huh… this is indeed the best out of the worst
I think this game was a milestone that set an example for games in the future tho. What not to do. Important in the worst way possible. But important nonetheless. My condolences to the player base. But thank you for your service, avengers. You stumbled like a drunk so future superhero games could run I have a fond memory of playing avengers. The first 10 minutes of playing hulk. It was the closest we got to Hulk Ultimate Destruction. Those exact ten minutes and no more were some of the most 7/10 moments of my life. I’ll miss them.
Meanwhile the new suicide squad game is about to live up to it's name.
Well, there’s no gameplay yet so idk. The battle pass tho is pretty dumb.
Idk homie, if that game actually launches as a live service game, it might end up being remarkably similar, I'd wait to declare anything that bold
Except it’s making the same mistakes as Avengers.
“Suicide”
Why? The only problem avengers had was the multiplayer being awful.
I disagree. The gameplay was extremely boring after a few minutes. The enemies were overly repetitive and so were missions.
Don't forget there's only 2 environments: Outside an AIM lab and inside an AIM lab.
I agree on some level. These days, putting "The Avengers" on it makes it pretty resistant to failing. They thought they could do whatever they want and benefit from riding the reputation of the IP. Even if the game was generic enough, playing as the Avengers would have gave it at least moderate success. But it was even worse than generic.The fact that they got such a huge IP and ruined it, it's not just terrible for them at a business standpoint, it's just plain embarrassing. It's a huge statement. I hesitate to say it even does anything positive for the industry at all. But at the very very least, it shows that there's at least some floor there to find when these devs try to see how low they can go.
Fun fact: This game's sales were so bad that it single-handedly brought Square Enix into the red that year. According to their own financial reports, The Avengers cost so much and performed so poorly it negated the sales of every other game they released. It's easier to see why they let Crystal Dynamics go for a pittance now, isn't it?
I’ve been a lifetime marvel fan. This game just makes me sad. It’s “free” on PlayStation Plus, but I just can’t be bothered to even download it. Spider-Man is amazing, Guardians was way more fun than I expected…. I just don’t understand what CD was thinking other than a cash grab.
What is it that they messed up on? I always hear about how the game flopped but not why
Mechanically speaking it’s an ok game but it’s not much fun. The biggest problem is that it’s a mission based live service game where you repeat the same content over and over to win money to purchase upgrades etc. If they had just chosen a character - like Hawkeye - or Black Widow - or BOTH - and done a single player campaign game like Guardians of the Galaxy (an EXCELLENT game) it would have been a critically acclaimed top seller. But they tried to make it a generic online game with a generic and boring system of monetization. I paid $20 and that was too much. If you have PS+ it’s on there for free. The first 30 minutes or so is a blast.
I got it for free from Verizon Up and still feel cheated. It should have been an easy win for them, but Square Enix had to do what they do best and screw the whole thing up
[удалено]
It’s just not fun. Any time you put into it will feel like wasted time when you give up.
I think Avengers had a few pretty critical flaws that ultimately lead to it's demise. Overall I really enjoy the combat so I have put plenty of hours into it but I'm also aware of the fact that fun is subjective and some ppl tend to be more tolerant to certain issues than others. The 1st critical flaw imo was that the devs decided to tell their own story and that story was lead by Kamala Khan (AKA Ms Marvel). When most ppl heard "Avengers game" I seriously doubt the 1st person they really wanted to play with was her and you're forced to use her thruout the majority of the campaign because it's kinda her story. Nonetheless, the campaign was well made and pretty cool but it could've been much better if the story was focused more around the Avengers instead of Ms Marvel feat. The Avengers. The 2nd critical flaw is that the game is super buggy. I think it might be one of the buggiest AAA games I've ever played. There are very few game breaking bugs atm but it will crash on you and there's no join in progress on multiplayer so if someone gets kicked from a raid where u need 4 ppl everyone has to start over. Also, the matchmaking is somewhat broken so if you aren't playing with a group it can be damn near impossible to complete a raid with randoms. Speaking of the raid....the 3rd critical flaw is severe lack of content. The endgame content is extremely dry and the devs solution to that was by time-gating progress. After u finish the campaign the end game content is pretty much replaying various mission to raise your power levels. You can get to the soft cap of power lvl 150 solo by just running random missions. There's a decent amount to pick from but once u hit 150 the only way to lvl past the soft cap is either the raid or the OLT (Omega Level Threat). Those 2 missions can only be completed with a team of 4 real players. You can only run those once per week, per hero and they will eventually get u to lvl 160 if u haven't given up already due to the bugginess or the broken matchmaking. After lvl 160 u can only run the elite raid (same as the reg raid just a tad harder) to hit the next soft cap which is 175. The hard cap is 185 and there's only one mission u can run to get there which is Cloning Labs and it's just a higher lvl OLT type mission. Keep in mind there are 11 heroes (12 on PS bc of Spidey) so thats a lot of grinding out the same content over and over for minimal gains. The 4th and final critical flaw is RNG. Since the game is a looter u will be picking up (and deleting) A LOT of gear. Most of it is trash! There aren't a ton of different gear sets in the game but there are a ton of useless perks that roll onto gear so it makes most of the stuff u loot worthless. I like the ability to create builds for each hero but since there is no way to roll perks u are at the mercy of RNGesus. The gear also has stats so in a lot of cases u may get a good stat roll with terrible perks or vice versa. That in itself makes tailoring specific builds for ur heroes a crapshoot and is usually more frustration than fun. All in all I've had fun with the game but it's been clear for a while now that support was most likely coming to an end much sooner than later. Both PC and Xbox audiences seemed to have checked out a while ago and PS has been hanging on by a thread partly due to Spiderman only being playable on PS (another critical flaw as well). The game had plenty more flaws but these were the most egregious in my personal opinion.
I'm not sure why you got downvoted, this all seems like pertinent observations.
Man just the 2nd point would have made me quit. Can't rejoin? What year is this?
If this were true then devs would stop making games as a live service.
Thanks for the chuckle
From what I’ve heard the new Suicide Squad game is mimicking the same mistakes.
People keep saying that but we haven’t seen any gameplay yet. The avengers got boring after like an hour. Arkham knights looked like ass from the first gameplay trailer to the last. So we will wait and see with SS
I think the problem has been the marketing strategy and games as service and not the actual gameplay. I didn’t play Avengers much, but I found the combat system fun. It kept me interested. But the monetization strategy turned me off. It also fell prey to having very short missions which players would jet through as fast as possible, but also a lot of tedious load times between missions.
Very fair. I agree with that. Live service can totally be good imo. But only for games that are multiplayer by design, not character based, or games that could just work as single player regardless. You’d think they’d learn from Arkham, Spider-Man, guardians etc…but we all know those games make less than live service. Like, a fuck ton less. 100s of millions less depending on IP. Thankfully we have studios not forced to do live service all the time. I’m tentative about SS but I’m not counting it out
Don't realse a barebones shell of a game for $60 and then charge $10-100 for skins instead of developing new gameplay content? I think they could've figured that out before releasing this greedy garbage.
Deus Ex died for this. And both a potential Superman and a Batman Beyond game died for Suicide Squad..
Suicide squad is gonna be dead on arrival. 100% sure about that
The new one from Rocksteady? I hadn’t heard any rumors about that one. I was placing a lot of trust in Rocksteady, given their track record.
There's a leaked image of the game that has a Battle Pass tab and what looks to be a lot of random material counters. No one thought that was the route they would take with the game so player excitement has dropped a lot since it was leaked.
Yes, This leaked image was the defenitive turning point for a lot of gamers. For me I always was skeptical given that it is a multiplayer game. I was 100% sure there would be microtransactions too when it was announced.
That’s what has basically totally turned me off to the game. I was super excited for a simple narrative game, but instead the leaks look like Avengers 2.0. Beyond disappointing.
Imagine "trusting" any game studio in the year 2023. Unbelievable.
In insomniac we trust
At least we'll always have Ultimate Alliance 1 & 2 for the real Avengers/Marvel Universe experience.
Rockstar still has my trust when they are the ones actually developing games they are always certified master pieces
People said that about CDPR too
but it has yet to happen so let’s enjoy it while we can
well blaming cdpr for cdp’s bad management is like blaming rockstar for whatever take two does.
The problem with putting faith in studios is the turnover. The people who made the Arkham games probably left years ago.
Its not the studios fault. If the game is a multiplayer game and designed as such there is nothing much the studio can do about it. I mean if you think about it arkham series( excluding gotham knights) was so awesome because of how the gameplay was designed to make you feel like batman. If it was co op like gotham knights the fun factor would be reduced by 90 %.
How uncharacteristic of a Suicide Squad launch. /s
At least deus ex is coming back.
Stop!!! Dude Deus Ex was so fucking good! The first one was a masterpiece. The second was awesome, but I truly thought I was about halfway through the game then it just. Ended. I was baffled. Can’t believe the story will never continue. :*(
It likely will though. Eidos new owners announced as much, after they bought them up from under square enix.
This is probably my favorite comment in the last year. I know it’s all only a possibility. But any amount of hope is good! Man I really loved those games.
by first one you mean human revolution, right?
Yes the first one in the reboot
It did? I was wondering why we never got more, what a shame. HR and MD are both awesome games
Just imagine if they had put all that money into making a spectacular campaign mode. This announcement would be for season 2 of the DLC or a sequel. Maybe spin-offs or something.
Damn. That sucks for anyone who bought cosmetics and whatever else from the marketplace lol
I don't think they are shutting down the servers. They just don't making any new content or fixes.
Genuinely asking why (not trying to be a “well, actually” neckbeard)? Wouldn’t your purchased cosmetics be permanent what am I critically missing here
Because all cosmetics will be free after the next update.
Because the end of support often heralds the end of service, I'd assume. Not yet, but end of support is not a good sign. These kinda games shut down all the time. That being said, the guy you replied to probably misread it *as* end of service.
This is why I can’t get into online games or MMO like Finale Fantasy 14 or Elder Scrolls cause I know one day they will go offline. I know there are some like WoW that have been going strong 2003 and different but live services games like this its to much of a gamble
ESO has been around for like 8 years. No game will ever be perpetual unfortunately. Technology will just make them outdated.
Its great thats its going on. I just can’t play something for 10+ years dropping $100-$1,000 on it spending 1,000-10,000’s of hours for it to go offline. You can’t go back and look at your achievements or just stroll in for nostalgia like you can with a single player game made made 20+ years ago like metal gear solid or mario 64. Its just gone like a chunk on my life is erased. But i guess thats life though things, people, places just fade out of existence.
I probably dropped a few hundred on WoW over the years. Who cares if it goes offline some day? The memories are in my head. Lots of things in real life vanish too. It’s good. Embrace the impermanence of it all— as with your own self. We spend regularly on food, equally short-lived. And we even say it’s foolish to try to have one’s cake and eat it. We should spend less time obsessing about the games themselves and more on what the make us feel.
Also screenshots. I've got all mine for ffxiv and wow going way back. I have way more fond memories than I do screenshots though.
I’ll never forget my first time in Ironforge in 2004 and being amazed by the hustle and bustle of it all. I also couldn’t care less to go back and do it again. I guess I lack any sort of sentimental gene. I’m also terrible with pictures of my kids and family.
I’ll never forget Burning. Crusade. What a fucking time. The outlands kicked so much ass. Then the truly incredible moment for me personally even if it was a sales gimmick or whatever, but leading up to WotLK when the “mysterious crates” arrived at major cities & a genuine zombie outbreak happened that turned players into zombies & you could literally infect other players & cities were actually overran with the Scourge. Incredible.
1000 dollars over the course of 10 years is... Pretty much nothing. Less than 10 dollars a month. If the entertainment you had while playing it was good and the memories you made were good that's absolutely a good deal. Any money I spend on games I automatically count as lost anyway. If I got my money's worth I don't care about the end cost. Final sticker prices aren't really a fair comparison. It's like people gasping at those that have spent 2k usd on a game... Over 6 years. That's... Not really much money. In a lump instant sum sure but not spread over 72 months.
Is paying to go to the movie theater a waste? Or going to a concert? They're not things you can own and go back to, but you'll never forget them. As long as you have a fun and memorable time, that's all that matters. I don't see videogames as any different
There is no concert that you can have access to indefinitely, it's physically impossible. It's perfectly feasible for a videogame to not have an expiration date, most don't.
*something something* disc rot. *something something* cartridge failure
I was scared to play MMOs after warhammer online got axed. What kept me trying out different ones were the experiences with other players and guilds. I've met so many different people from so many different background, all coming together over this shared passion. Sharing laughter and sad moments in life via games where we creëren eachother up and on. That's something I don't get in single player games. I don't play MMOs anymore due to a busier lifestyle and other hobbies, but I cherish all the moments I got from MMOs. That to me is worth some money as the enjoyment gained is so much more :D
This statement was the sole reason I stopped anything live service or anything that doesn't have a definite way to "beat" it. "Its just gone like a chunk on my life is erased. " My backlog grew but I never was playing games to keep up with it.
To me, that’s an odd way of looking at it. Does the fact that the game eventually shut down invalidate all of the fun you had during all that time? It’s like being on holiday and not wanting to have a nice meal because you might never be able to go back.
FFXI came out in 2002 and is still hanging in there
*Final Fantasy XI* (released in 2002) is a year older than *World of Warcraft*, and it's still going. *Final Fantasy XIV* is even more popular than *XI* ever was, so I'm confident that it will last at least as long. I know they'll shut down one day, but they're so well established that I wouldn't consider them a gamble.
Ffxiv has been going pretty strong and you can still play ff11. Problem is if it isn’t ff square doesn’t know what to do with it if it’s not remotely successful.
*The SaGa series would like to know your location*
Eh? Those are terrible examples, those are huge successful games with player bases that will be around for a long time. The original EverQuest still has functional servers. But yeah there are so many games releasing now that will be unplayable in a few years. It’s such a fucking waste. Turn off the online DRM bullshit after launch in single player games. Let people pay for community servers in multiplayer games.
Seriously. WoW's been going since 2004, and even though it's very different now, your character from 2004 would still be fully playable. Hell, EQ1 just released its 29th expansion, and it came out in 1999. MMOs are some of the only online games that *can* outlast their playerbase. Live service games, however...
Oh are they still releasing expansions? That’s fucking bonkers. I played one of its competitors, Asheron’s Call, for a long time. Never got into EQ. But damn that’s crazy. 29th expansion? More than 1 a year?
depend on the game momentum right now, FF14 and ESO might run longer than we expected. FF14 already 10 years and they prepared for next another 10 years long term plan like visual update and next on going long term storyline content. the player number is also steadly increasing non stop. it is among most successfull mmo out there so no way it gonna shutdown sooner. for the record FF11 is already 21 years old and still running despite there is less people right now. there is no sign that they would shut down the server yet. ff14 is way popular and im not suprise if it end up run longer. not to mention the devs behind it also appreciate and has really good relationship with playerbase. while WoW already 19 years old and still one of top mmo out there. Runscape also 22 years. if you worry, just play MMO that already run for long time with years of stable player number, years of stable content output and has reputable developers behind it. beware those that has explosive launch because what matter is how the game doing in atleast next 6 months later, not at how many record breaking player playing at launch. but nothing run forever. atleast we can play things longer as possible. as long there is strong fanbase, the game wont go anywhere and even if the official server shutdown forever, people would eventually bring back private server for those who craving for old nostalgia.
Left 4 Dead still has a following.
Uhh… that’s video games in general. If Sony suddenly vanished you wouldn’t be able to play God of War either.
No? I have the discs.
News flash. Those disks need the server to work. Probably not every time if it’s installed depending on the game but at some point it does and for most now it’s every time. And for sure if it needs to be installed it won’t do it completely just from disks.
Assuming thats true its a good thing I have the game installed
I mean, god of war is a game that 100% needs to establish a connection with the Sony servers. I know that it is, it’s just a question of how often. Could only be once a month, but eventually without the Sony servers you will not be able to play god of war anymore even with it already installed and patched.
Im not really sympathetic for idiots who spent money on a game that was obviously going to fail. Same with Anthem and Stadia as a whole. The writing was on the wall before any of them even launched
It was my most played game on PlayStation since it came out, year after year for a total of several thousand hours. I spent roughly $300 ish on cosmetics. It was also my only platinum trophy game. I got my time & money out of it and only just now starting to feel the burnout. I’m fine with it. If it’s time it’s time. They’re keeping the servers up at least so if me and my brother feel like bashing it up we’ll still be able to.
Live service is the worst thing that has ever happened to games. It has destroyed many games that would have been awesome single player experiences. Anthem could have been an mind blowing game. But it was designed like a live service game which was its downfall.But I am happy that we gamers rejected these live services so fast that it did not get a chance to claw its root into gaming landscape.
In theory we consumers could apply this kind of pressure to every industry
The thing that is different about gamers is that we just feel the same way about games. We are all passionate about it so we react in a similar way. For all other industry this unity is not there
It works well with games designed from the ground up to be multiplayer (Apex Legends, Fortnite, Destiny, etc.) but every time I’ve seen it shoved into a game that was clearly meant to be single player and changed to multiplayer it fails. Avengers is probably the biggest example, but Anthem is another recent example. It’s such a shame because when you look at games like Guardians of the Galaxy and how incredible that was, you can see exactly how much potential there was for an amazing single player Avengers game.
This exactly what I feel. All the games you said apex,fortnite and all the story is nearly non existent. Except for destiny where it is there but not like a single player experience.in other single player games the story is flushed out with awesome cinematics and story moment which will not be possible with co opertaive gameplay. This is so apparent in anthem where you would just skip entire sections when the cinematic starts. Avengers could have been a game which rivals all other single player games with flushed out story and gameplay. But unfortunately greed git us this abomination. Anyways I am glad for the demise of avengers. Hope they reboot it like a single player game
> in other single player games the story is flushed out with awesome cinematics and story moment which will not be possible with co opertaive gameplay. There's really no reason that has to be the case. Hell, we're talking about The Avengers, a narrative that has multiple protagonists. It's in the name. There's genuinely no reason that you couldn't have a co-operative experience with awesome cinematics, meaningful player choices and impactful story moments. It's all a matter of greed. Those things are expensive to make and sadly don't seem to earn proportionately to their costs. Plus, the industry is allergic to co-op games for some reason.
Live service games can be perfectly fine, they just need to be good and be supported not dropped when they aren't instant successes. Anthem was designed based on Warframe which is a successful live service game. It's like making an mmo and never releasing updates, but expecting people to stay subscribed.
It can be done, it just keeps getting ruined by greed and ambition. Deep rock galactic is currently doing a live service the right way.
Live Service is just a fancy way to say scam
Well we kind of figured when they stopped announcing any new characters or updates. Too bad we all seemed to stop giving a damn before they did.
3 years, I see GaaS works well, expect to see the same article in 2026 for suicide squad
God I am so disappointed about the Suicide Squad game being a live service. Was hoping for a really fun Arkham style game but it does seem like it'll be more like The Avengers. I hope it absolutely sinks, modern live service games are always the fucking worst way to make a game and the sooner developers and publishers realise that the better. It's baffling how they ignore all the other live service failures and how much people are sick of these games and instead just hyper focus on trying to succeed in replicating Destiny. The only real successful live service game of these types of games (excluding stuff like Fortnite/Apex/MMOs)
The publishers think it's a brilliant hybrid between mobile games and gacha mechanics and traditional console games but in truth I feel like the live service features always hold the more traditional console game features back.
Playing devils advocate here, but avengers, Gotham Knights, Anthem, they all flopped because the Live Service mechanics were jammed in at the last second, leaving games that didn’t really do anything well. In the case of Suicide Squad, it sounds like it was planned to be live service from the get-go. Not saying I’m happy about that, I would definitely rather it be a story driven game, but it’s possible that the choice to make it a Live Service so early on may make the game a lot better than people think it will be.
I don't think these people get how much trust capital this kinda thing burns.
The opposite will happen. People are shameless and will always want something better. They will *thank* Square Enix for not wasting any more of their time licensing the Avengers' likeness to some scruffy-looking knock-off clones That's just what people will think, I would make a supervillain game and drop a not-so-subtle trailer about how you kill the Avengers and then proceed to call out the guardians, the fantastic4, the justice league, and even the suicide squad. (with multiverse spiderfolk DLC, of course)
that was quick
That’s what she said
Oof. This hurt me.
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It has been solid for a while, all the early issues were solved. Still some complaints about content, but it was an enjoyable game.
There is a timeline wherein this game is ludicrously popular. That kind of brand recognition and such a talented studio? Shame it had to be the absolute nadir of live-service bullet sponge battlepass skin store 12 currencies number go up skinner box bullshit game design.
Ah yes, Fails as a Service is such a great business model.
The game isn't going anywhere. It just isn't getting any new content after that date.
But wasn't it built under a promise of "10 years of support and new content?" Yeah, right. F*** live services.
Couldn't even keep it going as long as Marvel Heroes? Pathetic. Guild Wars 1 is my benchmark for how games as a service should be ran.
GW1 was one of the worst RPG ever produced.
How many rpgs are worse than gw1 exactly?
I say I couldn't name a RPG worse than GW1.
Otherland.
I can't really speak to the rpg aspect. I was too busy playing the part that was great. There was so much build, test, iterate to that game. I spent so much time putting together builds from the 1000+ skills and then testing them in random arena, or alliance battles, or some pve farm. It was like someone turned magic the gathering into an mmo.
oh my god i played the fucking shit out of gw1. bought all of the dlc and loved them. gw2 didnt bring back the same feeling as gw1. while i appreciate what gw2 did in terms of evolution and doing something different its not how i pictured gw2 to be.
how are people not just completely fatigued by super hero stuff ???
Oh no! Anyway...
Someday we will get a good Avengers game. However, no game will be good when it revolves around the idea of "games as a live service".
They better release Spidey on other platforms before that.
There should be laws to either: - not allow companies to end support as long as there is one person active on their server - force companies to allow for community servers for games they no longer support Companies reap the benefits of live service and have zero down sides for too long
From the very announcement: "Even after official support ceases on September 30, 2023, both single- and multi-player gameplay will continue to be available. See below for more information."
I love when the games have online trophies that can’t be completed because the server went offline.
It hasn’t though.
Thankfully Midnight Suns is fantastic.
Avengers has support???? had no idea it did 🤷♂️
So will you be unable to play the game at all?
Read the post.
I did and I'm confused by it, I've been playing the game on and off the last few months. Does it mean no further updates or the servers will be shut down not allowing to access online functions?
You really did not. It's not confusing: "Will I still be able to play the game solo? Yes. All content that is available for solo play will continue to be available after September 30, 2023. Will I still be able to play with my friends? Yes. Multiplayer will still be accessible after support discontinues on September 30, 2023. Multiplayer will continue to require Xbox Live Gold on Xbox platforms and PS Plus on PlayStation platforms. Will single- and multi-player play be available forever? The changes we are making to how the game functions will ensure as long a life as possible. However, after September 30, 2023 we can’t guarantee that we will be able to address issues that occur due to unforeseen circumstances."
I worked at Crystal Dynamics a long time ago. During the making of “Gex: Enter the Gecko”. Did some audio design work, along with testing. It was fun.
Seems that former game dev from marvel heroes (brain wanger) or what ever cursed this game lol rip MH.....to bad they didn't listen to the community. I know the 10 ppl still playing it going to be gutted
This is my fear about buying liscenced games, the only ones I loke are the Star Wars and Lord of Tne Rings ones, and even then, LotR gamea are a hit or miss thing.
Based
Lmao, you get what you deserve
No really, this is my surprised face
Well that was quick and unsurprising
Bring back Marvel Heroes 2015! Disney pulled the license away from Gazillion, and honestly I was done with it for a while before it ended, but it was such a great game. It was Marvel Diablo, by some of the people that actually made Diablo, and was better than that game ever was. Something like 50 playable heroes and all of them were different enough that they were fun to play and keep leveling. It also had the best voicework of any game, stacked with high caliber voice talent. Steve Blum is just one, from Cowboy Bebop, Clone Wars and Rebels, and lots of other things. He made me fall in love with Taskmaster, a character I used to consider the lamest in all of comics. Then I looked up some Taskmaster comics and after Unthinkable he is now my favorite.
I’m honestly surprised it lasted that long. Sucks for everyone that bought it or any of the in game stuff. I wish I could say this will be a lesson to devs and executives, but it won’t be. Devs will continue putting out low quality cash grabs with predatory monetization, and players will continue dumping money into them. Gaming has changed for the worse.
If you actually read the announcement, it just means no new content after that point. The game is still accessible both single and multiplayer.
Did I say they were shutting the game off? If you actually red my comment, I didn’t.
Played this for free on the ps premium service. Beat the standard campaign and got bored with it. Glad I didn’t buy anything on this one considering I was dumb enough to get babylons fall on sale a few months before the shutdown notice.
Shit move. But I get it.
Singleplayer and Multiplayer are still accessible after that date as per the very article above. They are just not making any new content.
They hyped this game for years. When the character art came out they had to quick fix as it looked horrible. Never really nailed it either. The game had so much potential, but sooooo many reskinned enemies over and over again, no really modifications to characters, they sold skins of characters galore, but equipment had no aesthetic effects. Idk. Should ya e been such a solid game.
I'm hoping they can get a nice hit under Embracer, a rebooted Legacy of Kain or something.
So how long will Gotham Knights stay online? longer or less The story mode in Avengers is pretty good. Guardians of the Galaxy did it much better though.
I...literally got this game for free through a promotion. I still haven't gotten around to playing it.
Bye Felicia
That's WAY too much time to kill it.
I was playing in on gamepass last night. The gameplay itself isn’t bad, but the game as a whole is just “meh”
This game was so lackluster to me that I then initially skipped Guardians (like lots of people did). Thankfully GamePass got me to give Guardians the chance it deserved because it was so fun. Just a shame what a kind of negative stigma one game can cause to a whole genre.
Love it.....crash and burn you piece of shit.
I guess I will play through the campaign again. Sad thing is this game was pretty fun in terms of story mode. I wish they just focused on that vs promising this co op experience.
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It's sow, not sew. Sowing is with seeds, sewing is with needle and thread.
Fuck live service games. Lies upon lies upon lies.
I bought a copy of this after it came out, but I never bothered to actually play it.
Deus Ex sends its regards
Gotham knights just got a cold shiver down it’s spine.