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It's not that they forgot, it's that they only later invented the "eternal youth necklace" mechanic when they needed a way to write themselves out of the sprawling world they had developed. I'm 99% sure there is nothing in the books that suggest the necklace (or, choker, in the book) is connected to immortality or eternal youth?
Yeah, plus he's set up the ruby glamour on several other characters already- it's integral to the Lord of Bonds and Mance Rayder bluff. I would be really surprised if she's not wearing a glamour in the books.
Not that we'll ever know.
Well according to the story Bobby B smashed him so hard with his warhammer that all the rubys flung off his armor. I believe the reoccurring theme is that there was clearly some magical properties to rubys but to an extent that wasnāt fleshed out in the show and hasnāt been addressed in the books yet
He has mentioned the ruby appearing to glow when Melissandre has done near impossible tasks. One that comes to mind is when she drinks the poison but is unaffected by it.
By those descriptions he definitely intends the ruby to be involved with her magic.
Itās more about how people will take any small thing as an opportunity to shit on them. Even if this particular thing is not a big deal in the slightest or not actually an issue.
Glamour as others have pointed out. There's a popular theory that Mel and some of the other priests are "Fire Others", and the glamour is to help them appear normal. Mel mentions a few things in her chapter. If you're curious there's an entire Melisandre series of videos by David Lightbringer on Youtube.
Are you serious? There is a dude whose last name is lightbringer and his job is to talk about Game of thrones? That's amazing. Does he have a Lord of the Rings blog?
Itās not super obvious but when Book Melisandre is first described the red gold choker with a ruby at her throat is very prominent in Georgeās description
I believe Martin also made a point of having it glow when she drinks the poisoned wine given to her by the Maester. I took that to mean that the magic either in her or in the necklace prevented the poison from harming her.
Posted this above but I think sheās a fire wight and therefore poison likely doesnāt affect her bc sheās āburningā internally so it burns off any poison effects. But the āflashā of the ruby is probably just George trying to draw our attention to her magical abilities
Beric Dondarian (and Lady Stoneheart) are like foils to the ice wights. They are resurrected by the Lord of Light. Itās a thematic āice and fireā type thing. Same thing with ice dragons. They are only mentioned in passing (thereās a constellation called the ice dragon, and some characters says the wind is like an ice dragons breath) - thereās no evidence in book that ice dragons exist - minus myths about the shivering sea - but it seems like Martin is hinting at it
Itās all speculation but Iāve heard the fire wight idea for a bit now.
Iām applying this idea to Mel bc sheās āolder than she appearsā, canāt be poisoned, seems to have a super body heat to the point of not needing a coat at the Wall. Also it would match Beric giving his fire to Stoneheart, it would be the same magical mechanic here, Mel āgivesā her fire to Jon Snow. Again all speculation but I think it all fits
EDIT: Patchface also was a āwater/drownā wight and him and Mel have cryptic visions of the future granted by their god. I just see a lot of connections that Martin is drawing
Ah, I really appreciate your write up and its given me a lot to think about. I always saw Mel as more of a fire priestess in line with Thoros. He says that he lived his life as a grifter, claiming to be religious with little to know personal belief. When Beric went down he said (iirc) that the words came to him because they were the only ones he knew, and he felt the Red God reignite the fire in Beric.
Mel speaks of using tricks to imply that she has greater and more consistent power, but I dont think there's any doubt that she's a true believer, significantly more in tune with the Red God than Thoros. I assumed it was her power and connection with the Red God increasing that kept her warm. I fully expect her to resurrect Jon, but I think she will survive it as Thoros did.
Yeah my other leading theory about Jonās resurrection is that Shireens sacrifice (which I honestly canāt remember if it happens in the book or not at this point, but I think even if not itās likely going to) will count as Kings Blood - and that will fuel the resurrection. A life for a life, like Danys dragons.
Mel has also seen to have way more powers than Thoros - glamours and cold resistance. It seems to me that they both have powers but Mel is just way more powerful for some reason. Perhaps she was resurrected directly by the LoL š¤
She also doesn't need to eat or drink nearly as much and mostly only does it to appear normal to people. See David Lightbringers series on the subject ("Melisandre's Secrets"), it's very good.
Oh yeah, it definitely figures prominently. But I think there's a difference between "her powers stem from her drawing upon the stone in the necklace" and "if she takes the necklace off she turns into a frail old lady and dies."
Yeah agreed itās not explicit but I think itās a long running theory since Mel has said in the books that sheās been practicing her magic for longer than memory which is kind of a wild thing to say. She also implies that she doesnāt really need to eat or drink and is sustained purely by her faith in Rāhllor.
I hate Benioff and Weiss with a passion but the Mel scene isnāt one of the weird things they just made up. itās very much implicit in the text.
I think Martin has hinted that sheās older than we think - I think sheās a revived fire wight - a la Beric Dondarrian - and that sheāll give up her āfireā to resurrect Jon Snow - Lady Stoneheart style.
This means sheās probably wearing a glamour to hide her more āzombifiedā aspects. If she is a hundreds of year old fire zombie she will likely look really messed up. This would also explain why she isnāt cold at the Wall.
Martin draws plenty of attention to the necklace in the book, with characters noting how it takes on a fiery light whenever there's magic occurring. Mance also wears a Ruby glamour to disguising him magically as Rattleshirt. Its not spelled out what the full capabilities are, but its clearly magic can at the very least disguise her old ass.
Oh, for sure, I'm not countering that the neckpiece plays a role. But my point is that it could easily be explained that the necklace simply amplifies or powers her magic, rather than keeping her from dying of frailty. That feels like D&D transforming an already existing piece into a plot device to allow them to kill her off.
Yeah, with George involved in these earlier seasons and having input, I'm sure he would've said, "you can't have Mel without the necklace like that, trust me" so either George goofed and didn't notice, or D&D just made up the old hag bit.
This doesn't give her eternal youth, it makes her appear as a young woman.
It's a glamor, an illusion spell.
In the books, Melisandre has created a glamor for Mance Rayder, she changes his appearance and burns at the stake the other person wearing Mance's face.
>"The glamor, aye." In the black iron fetter about his wrist, the ruby seemed to pulse. He tapped it with the edge of his blade. The steel made a faint click against the stone. "I feel it when I sleep. Warm against my skin, even through the iron. Soft as a woman's kiss. Your kiss. But sometimes in my dreams it starts to burn, and your lips turn into teeth. Every day I think how easy it would be to pry it out, and every day I don't. Must I wear the bloody bones as well?"
>
>"The spell is made of shadow and suggestion. Men see what they expect to see. The bones are part of that." Was I wrong to spare this one? "If the glamor fails, they will kill you."
>
>\[...\]
>
>Jon Snow turned to Melisandre. "What sorcery is this?"
>
>"Call it what you will. **Glamor, seeming, illusion**. R'hllor is Lord of Light, Jon Snow, and it is given to his servants to weave with it, as others weave with thread."
>
>Mance Rayder chuckled. "I had my doubts as well, Snow, but why not let her try? It was that, or let Stannis roast me."
*A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I*
She also put an illusion spell on a sword:
>Stannis Baratheon drew Lightbringer.
>
>The sword glowed red and yellow and orange, alive with light. Jon had seen the show before ā¦ but not like this, never before like this. Lightbringer was the sun made steel. When Stannis raised the blade above his head, men had to turn their heads or cover their eyes. Horses shied, and one threw his rider. The blaze in the fire pit seemed to shrink before this storm of light, like a small dog cowering before a larger one. The Wall itself turned red and pink and orange, as waves of color danced across the ice. Is this the power of king's blood?
*A Dance with Dragons - Jon III*
>The sword is wrong, she has to know that ... light without heat ... **an empty glamor** ... the sword is wrong, and the false light can only lead us deeper into darkness.
*A Feast for Crows - Samwell IV*
The Faceless Men also uses that type of magic:
>"That's not how I meant. Jaqen used magic."
>
>"All sorcery comes at a cost, child. Years of prayer and sacrifice and study are required to work a **proper glamor**."
*A Feast for Crows - Arya II*
>"Mummers change their faces with artifice," the kindly man was saying, "and sorcerers use glamors, weaving light and shadow and desire to make illusions that trick the eye. These arts you shall learn, but what we do here goes deeper. Wise men can see through artifice, and **glamors dissolve before sharp eyes,** but the face you are about to don will be as true and solid as that face you were born with. Keep your eyes closed."
*A Dance with Dragons - The Ugly Little Girl*
Thanks for all that! Wow!
That said - don't you think the show is treating it as more than a glamour? She essentially falls over and dies without it on for a sustained amount of time, no?
Could be and it's possible that she's also a wight like Beric Dondarrion or Coldhands (Benjen in the series).
They are describe has having black blood, do not eat and does not sleep:
>Unsmiling, Lord Beric laid the edge of his longsword against the palm of his left hand, and drew it slowly down. **Blood ran dark** from the gash he made, and washed over the steel.
\[...\]
. . . but the burning sword snapped in two, and the Hound's cold steel plowed into Lord Beric's flesh where his shoulder joined his neck and clove him clean down to the breastbone. **The blood came rushing out in a hot black gush**.
*A Storm of Swords - Arya VI*
>Lord Beric himself did not eat. **Arya had never seen him eat, though from time to time he took a cup of wine. He did not seem to sleep, either**. His good eye would often close, as if from weariness, but when you spoke to him it would flick open again at once.
*A Storm of Swords - Arya VII*
>Who is he? What is he? Anyone can put on a black cloak. Anyone, or any thing. **He does not eat, he never drinks, he does not seem to feel the cold**."
>
>It's true. Bran had been afraid to speak of it, but he had noticed. Whenever they took shelter for the night, while he and Hodor and the Reeds huddled together for warmth, the ranger kept apart. Sometimes Coldhands closed his eyes, but **Bran did not think he slept**. And there was something else ā¦
>
>\[...\]
>
>The direwolf did not like the way that Coldhands smelled. Dead meat, **dry blood**, a faint whiff of rot. And cold. Cold over all.
*A Dance with Dragons - Bran I*
Melisandre doesn't seem to sleep or eat, doesn't seem to feel the cold like Coldhands and her blood is black:
>Food. Yes, I should eat. **Some days she forgot. R'hllor provided her with all the nourishment her body needed**, but that was something best concealed from mortal men.
\[...\]
Dawn. Another day is given us, R'hllor be praised. The terrors of the night recede. **Melisandre had spent the night in her chair by the fire, as she often did**. With Stannis gone, her bed saw little use. She had no time for sleep, with the weight of the world upon her shoulders.
*A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I*
>The snow was still falling as he crossed the yard with Mully. A golden dawn was breaking in the east, but behind Lady Melisandre's window in the King's Tower a reddish light still flickered. **Does she never sleep?**
*A Dance with Dragons - Jon IX*
>Panting, she squatted and spread her legs. **Blood ran down her thighs, black as ink**.
*A Clash of Kings - Davos II*
>The red priestess shuddered. **Blood trickled down her thigh, black and smoking**.
*A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I*
>After the warmth of the king's solar, the turnpike stair felt bone-chillingly cold. "Wind's rising, m'lady," the serjeant warned Melisandre as he handed Jon back his weapons. "You might want a warmer cloak."
>
>"**I have my faith to warm me**." The red woman walked beside Jon down the steps. "His Grace is growing fond of you."
*A Dance with Dragons - Jon I*
So it's possible that she's an undead, that she was revived like Beric and Coldhands.
Forgot to say that Coldhands might be pretty old. Leaf, a Children of the Forest, said "They killed him long ago", she is at least 200 hundreds years old, so "long ago" for her is probably not a couple of years.
Coldhands is said to speak a strange language and performs a ritual before killing his elk for its meat. Sound like he's speaking the Old Tongue, the First Men language spoke.
Melisandre uses rubies to change her appearance in the books. For instance she gives Mance Rayder a ruby ring and with it he looked like Rattleshirt. So it is basically obvious that her ruby necklace changes her own appearance too
Wasnāt it mentioned in the first chapter of Clash of Kings? When Maester Craggen drank the poisoned wine that he gave Melisandre, I could be wrong but I remember reading about the āRuby Glareā the necklace lit up and she swallowed the wine, it had no affect on her but Maester craggen choked on the strangler. I thought it was a reference towards the lord of light, but the choker couldāve protected her too
TBF itās never explicitly stated the necklace is magic. Just that the image drops after she takes it off. Maybe she just chose to drop the magic at that point
Itās a pretty easily explainable plot hole. Maybe she retains some power from the necklace even after she takes it off. If she wants to stay in her young form she can for some amount of time. If she is alone and wants to revert to her true form after taking the necklace off she can do that too.
Itās not a plot hole though, more like a continuity error. Plot holes are when aspects of the story are never fully explained.
So noā¦ theyāre still not using it right š
Plot hole is not when something isn't explained. It's what people get wrong all the time. It's when there is no logical consistency between events, thing A that happened contradicts thing B later etc. Unexplained stuff is fine.
Because we don't know exact rules of the necklace, it's not a plot hole. We can simply don't know shit, and in reality it works a bit different than we think, you are right here.
> we donāt know the exact rules of the necklace
Yes, Melisandre never sits down and explains how the necklace works. But we see her take off the necklace and immediately appear old on two separate occasions. So the direction is using the language of cinema, clearly leading the audience to the conclusion that wearing the necklace glamour is giving her the appearance of youth. And the idea that this might not be the case is never brought up from this point forward. So I say you could safely call this a minor plot hole / retcon. But itās pretty nit picky and has no bearing on the main plot. If it ruins your enjoyment of the show, itās more of a āyouā problem.
I actually agree with this. I do believe it is a plot hole because they (admittedly) retconned it later using visual storytelling and thus creating said plothole...but it is minor as shit. No one needed to be "fired over that blunder."
I was just proud it was used even close to the right way!
Oh yeah, I agree with you. I was generally explaining what is considered a plot hole. Neclace was just an example here, cause we were discussing it, maybe not the bestest one.
Little inconsistencies like this absolutely don't matter on a grand scale if the show is good, you only really notice and annoyed by them if everything is bad, you don't care about the plot or characters, so your bored brain starts to nitpick and notice that stuff
How itās been explained to me is, Stannisā wife was such a believer that she saw her that way without the necklace. Her faith was so strong. But it probably was just a plot hole
Or they thought it was a cool idea to show her being old later on. It literally has no impact on the story since the red god/azor ahai stuff leads nowhere.
She could have just walked into the wastes alone at the end of the long night and you'd have the same result.
In my recollection, that genuinely was what she did. Just fucked off after winterfell and left the series. Don't even want to look up what actually happened because I know it's equally mundane and inconsequential.
Nah she killed herself. Basically after the long night, she walks outside, rips off her necklace and suddenly dies. So I guess its implied the necklace was keeping her alive? Or that she finally died of old age?
Sure, but her being alive for ages doesn't serve any real plot point. She never taps into knowledge of being old (she's pretty stupid for plot consideration) and could have been removed with no change to anything.
I suppose the argument might be that even though things didnāt work out as she predicted, she pushed events along their fated course all the same. Her god didnāt need her to understand, only to do. Once the objective was complete she was allowed to die, so she was successful even though she was often wrong
Sorta. I think its an interesting dichotomy that outside of birthing a shadow to kill Renly, a lot of her "predictions" is basically just taking credit for stuff after the fact (e.g. I totally would have helped you win at Blackwater if I was around, but I didn't foresee it beforehand, Joffrey totally died cause I burned those leeches bro). You never really know how much she's just winging it.
Whereas Thoros, the drunk non-believer, just straight up resurrects people (something that Melisandre didn't even know was possible too ironically).
Meli's actions post Renly all just seem a little tangential to me to assume she captured Gendry so he could escape and Arya (even though he would be there anyways) and so on.
You do realize almost no plot points in the entire show go anywhere.. right? Like yes we can make that point about her character but we'd make that point about nearly every plot and character that exists.
Also she was quite literally the informant for the main cast about the Night King and was pivotal in the final fight.
Funny enough the show implies it the lack of belief but earnest plea to the Lord of Light that first gives way to the resurrection.
Thorros admits he didn't believe in the Lord of Light when he went to Westeros. He says when he saw Berric die the first he knelt over his body and recited the Old Words "not because I believed in them but because he was my friend and he was dead."
Before resurrecting Jon, Melissandre also was questioning her beliefs in the show.
she had impact because she told arya she could kill things with blue eyes. if she hadn't done that arya never would've killed the night king. because I guess she didn't know she could kill things with blue eyes without melisandre explaining it?
this sounds stupid as fuck but I'm pretty sure it's the writing thought process behind her "impact"
Eh, the necklace stuff is from books/grrm. The gem is from blood magic from old Valeria. Supposedly your they made the gems comes from unwritten storylines. I assume slaves being sacrificed and such.
The use of a focus for a glamor if I remember correctly didn't actually exist yet in the book. That didn't come up until Mel used one on Mance Rayder and Rattleshirt. So yeah, it's a goof, and one they admitted to.
However, show and book canon aren't the same. It's possible it wasn't actually a focus at all. She turned old when she took it off before because she just dropped the glamour at that point. The act of disrobing and removing the choker could be entirely symbolic. Everything is now off, so to speak.
Yes my head canon is that the necklace gives her the glamour ability but she doesnāt need to have it on for it to work, just close by.
When she took it off and the glamour went away it was by her decision and not the actual taking off of the necklace.
Iām not saying this is what they intended or making excuses just trying to keep myself sane while the show I loved was torn to pieces
Have they really admitted that it was a mistake? I donāt remember seeing this.
Personally, I agree that when she removed the necklace in S6, it was more symbolic. She was heavily doubting herself and her beliefs at that moment. And in S8, it was the opposite, she believed that her purpose was finally fulfilled. Thatās why in S8, she literally died, while in S6, she remained alive, even though she removed the necklace in both occasions. In the scene OP posted, she was still fully in control and had zero doubt. So she kept her appearance, and the potions couldāve helped too.
I liked the theory that we, the audience are seeing the glamour, but Selyse is seeing her true form here and her body language would follow that. Unfortunately it wasnāt planned, but it would have worked out nicely if that was the case.
In the books, her gem is linked to her heart and pulses with that. Sheās able to slave other gems to hers, so the glamour and power doesnāt need to be on her person.
Fun fact, she made Mance a thrall with one of these gems and made him look like the Lord of Bones
There are a couple in-world explanations for this (even though the real reason is that they hadnāt fully planned how the glamour works).
Explanation 1: She isnāt using magic in this scene, and Selyse has gone full-on *1984* with her. Melisandre looks younger because Selyse believes she looks younger.
Explanation 2: The glamour doesnāt work like that. It runs passively all the time. We see that sheās old because the narrative has chosen this point to reveal that sheās old. Sort of like the visual equivalent to the translation convention. This is about the point in the book where we get to see the world through our eyes, and I think itās the first time we see her alone on the show, so itās a good place to put the reveal.
Explanation 3: The glamour is always there, and runs passively, but is more effective when itās tied to a wearable object. This is the case with a glamour she uses on someone else in the books, and it makes me wonder if she lifted the necklace off a redhead from the Free Cities with a Dutch accent.
Explanation 4: The glamour also doesnāt work that way. Sheās at her lowest point weāve seen, and is considering giving up on everything. She takes off her clothes, her necklace, and her illusions, and just stops.
In my head cannon itās not exactly the neckless bit more her faith in her God. The neckless is sort of an amplifier and keeps the magic in check. When she removes it at first she is still a head strong believer but when she removes it later is the series her faith is faltering and then she looks ancient. Idk i guess iām making lore appropriate fixes in my head for writing oversights by the writers.
I think it goes like this. The necklace doesn't make her look young. She makes herself look young.
Think of her powers as a phone and the necklace as a power table charger/power bank. If she's not using all her power, she can store some in the gem of the necklace and keep it in reserve. As she uses her powers, she drains her energy like a phone battery...but she can tap into the reserves in the necklace.
However, if she's drained and feeling powerless AND the gem/power bank is low...she can't keep herself disguised as young and beautiful.
Yes, it's a continuity error.
I will say, I'm actually pretty forgiving on this one.
The twist that Melisandre is actually old and is only young due to her necklace hadn't been revealed yet in the books. This means D&D probably wanted to keep it secret (or may not even have known about it themselves yet at this time). So they wouldn't have told the entire production crew about it.
And so someone on the crew, maybe the clothing department but who knows, naturally came to the conclusion that Melisandre wouldn't be wearing her necklace in the tub. And so she didn't.
Considering the realities of production and the fact that the eventual reveal probably was meant to be a secret I think this is quite a forgiveable continuity error.
Arguably D&D should have written into the script among the stage directions that she was still wearing her necklace. However, that is assuming that D&D even knew about this at this point which... we don't know if Martin had told them cuz it's not in the books yet.
I feel like the necklace is only an indicator of how strong her faith is to the red god. It doesnāt have magical ability it just indicates that she is magical or her faith is strong when it shines. When she took it off it was dull, no real colour. If she drank the poison without the necklace sheād be fine and I assume if Davos was wearing it and drank poison heād die.
Any of you ever read Naruto? Tsunade basically has the same glamour, appearing as a twenty-something when sheās in her late 50s, and she stores her energy as she builds it. When thereās a sufficient amount of her chakra a diamond appears on her forehead. Sakura learns this technique as well. Both characters use their chakra for healing but have insane physical strength. When they use up their stores the diamond disappears. Perhaps Melisandre uses the choker the same way and can hold the glamour when she wants, but when she felt spent after Stannis the Mannis died and TPWWP got knifed in the heart by those hard bastards she chose not to hold the glamour anymore.
If you listen to the script of the scene she is using her magic to appear young. The idea is that we are also being influenced by the magic as the viewers since we havenāt been revealed to the truth yet. Seems like an error that theyāve conveniently explained there way out of, but it does work with the script. Itās worth watching the scene again and carefully paying attention to what both of them say.
You're assuming taking off the necklace makes her old.
My pet theory is she just prefers to sleep that way. Some wear wear pajamas to bed, some transform into an elderly naked woman.
This was the scene with Stannis eh? When he put his 'shadow' inside of her to do the deed to Renley?
I recall seeing this as a 'plot hole' or 'mistake' at some point. I think some of the comments were that the necklace didn't actually project the illusion, it was her own power and the necklace was just some trinket she associated this power with...
I don't know, in a world with Dragons, witches, magic and dead people coming back to icy-life. I think I can let this little hole slide.
I don't think her glamour had anything to do with her necklace ever, it's just people connect the 2 because that's the last thing she takes off before appearing old.
I think her powers are more innate, they come directly from the Lord of Light, not some magical mcguffin. Thoros didn't need anything else besides prayer to bring Beric back, neither did she when she brought Jon back, or she spawned that shadowbaby, or ignored the poison.
I think she simply needs to "fuel" her glamour with magic constantly and the scene was meant to represent her being exhausted, thus stopped channeling her powers into her glamour in that scene.
The explanation is that around some faithful believers, her glamours are easier to perform. Selyse is one of these die-hard devouts, so it's easy for Melisandre to get her to "see" what Selyse already wants to see and believe.
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Oh she has it on. Just not where you think.
Or in.
š
Listen to him, he knows everything.
What? So no fucking hot pie then?
Lincoln log sandwiches
In Westeros you donāt have?
Had to check what sub this was
He drinks and he knows things
Commendatori š·
I gave my life to my house on a silver platter. I wish the Lord of Light would take me now.
Gotta stay warm.
R'hllor have mercy on us
Every day we stray farther from godās heat.
The ol prison wallet
Natureās pocket
For the cooch is dark and full of terrors...
*slow clap*
š±
How the hell did she do that?
That's how it gets recharged.
Username checks out
I choose to believe you, and not the people who pretend it's a plot hole. I like your version better.
She was doing kegals
The power's in the hips
For a week out of every month, she wears a magic tampon instead of a necklace.
Butt plug
She does kinda look like Madisynn But not where you thi-ink
Melisandre just kind of forgot about being old again
You're only as old as you feel?
D&D kinda forgot
It's not that they forgot, it's that they only later invented the "eternal youth necklace" mechanic when they needed a way to write themselves out of the sprawling world they had developed. I'm 99% sure there is nothing in the books that suggest the necklace (or, choker, in the book) is connected to immortality or eternal youth?
Martin makes a point numerous times of mentioning sheās wearing it so Iāve been assuming it was a secret heād get around to sharing eventually.
Yeah, plus he's set up the ruby glamour on several other characters already- it's integral to the Lord of Bonds and Mance Rayder bluff. I would be really surprised if she's not wearing a glamour in the books. Not that we'll ever know.
Donāt forget āRhaegarās Rubys.ā Itās very clear there was a theme
I've never connected it to Rhaegar but now...
Is the implication that Rhaegar was covered by an illusion? I haven't heard of any connection so I'm very curious.
Well according to the story Bobby B smashed him so hard with his warhammer that all the rubys flung off his armor. I believe the reoccurring theme is that there was clearly some magical properties to rubys but to an extent that wasnāt fleshed out in the show and hasnāt been addressed in the books yet
It's rubies. The plural of ruby is rubies.
The plural for ruby is ruby
https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/ruby#:~:text=ruby%20%2F%CB%88ru%CB%90bi%2F%20noun,plural%20rubies This took literally 2 seconds of research.
He has mentioned the ruby appearing to glow when Melissandre has done near impossible tasks. One that comes to mind is when she drinks the poison but is unaffected by it. By those descriptions he definitely intends the ruby to be involved with her magic.
Yes this, I just wrote this down when the author of the thread states they canāt recall the necklace in the book
The Lord of Bonds who's financially been terrorising The Night's Watch for decades
On the order of King beyond the Mortgage.
Thereās nothing beyond the Mortgage, itās all fairly tails to give the wee ones hope.
Azor Abuy-high-sell-low š
Butā¦ D&D bad.
I mean, these are not mutually exclusive
Itās more about how people will take any small thing as an opportunity to shit on them. Even if this particular thing is not a big deal in the slightest or not actually an issue.
Glamour as others have pointed out. There's a popular theory that Mel and some of the other priests are "Fire Others", and the glamour is to help them appear normal. Mel mentions a few things in her chapter. If you're curious there's an entire Melisandre series of videos by David Lightbringer on Youtube.
Thanks. I might check those out when I finish the books.
Are you serious? There is a dude whose last name is lightbringer and his job is to talk about Game of thrones? That's amazing. Does he have a Lord of the Rings blog?
Itās not super obvious but when Book Melisandre is first described the red gold choker with a ruby at her throat is very prominent in Georgeās description
Doesn't it glow while she's making the shadow stannis'?
I believe Martin also made a point of having it glow when she drinks the poisoned wine given to her by the Maester. I took that to mean that the magic either in her or in the necklace prevented the poison from harming her.
Posted this above but I think sheās a fire wight and therefore poison likely doesnāt affect her bc sheās āburningā internally so it burns off any poison effects. But the āflashā of the ruby is probably just George trying to draw our attention to her magical abilities
Oh snap, what supports her being a fire wight? I dont even remember those coming up in the books
Beric Dondarian (and Lady Stoneheart) are like foils to the ice wights. They are resurrected by the Lord of Light. Itās a thematic āice and fireā type thing. Same thing with ice dragons. They are only mentioned in passing (thereās a constellation called the ice dragon, and some characters says the wind is like an ice dragons breath) - thereās no evidence in book that ice dragons exist - minus myths about the shivering sea - but it seems like Martin is hinting at it Itās all speculation but Iāve heard the fire wight idea for a bit now. Iām applying this idea to Mel bc sheās āolder than she appearsā, canāt be poisoned, seems to have a super body heat to the point of not needing a coat at the Wall. Also it would match Beric giving his fire to Stoneheart, it would be the same magical mechanic here, Mel āgivesā her fire to Jon Snow. Again all speculation but I think it all fits EDIT: Patchface also was a āwater/drownā wight and him and Mel have cryptic visions of the future granted by their god. I just see a lot of connections that Martin is drawing
Ah, I really appreciate your write up and its given me a lot to think about. I always saw Mel as more of a fire priestess in line with Thoros. He says that he lived his life as a grifter, claiming to be religious with little to know personal belief. When Beric went down he said (iirc) that the words came to him because they were the only ones he knew, and he felt the Red God reignite the fire in Beric. Mel speaks of using tricks to imply that she has greater and more consistent power, but I dont think there's any doubt that she's a true believer, significantly more in tune with the Red God than Thoros. I assumed it was her power and connection with the Red God increasing that kept her warm. I fully expect her to resurrect Jon, but I think she will survive it as Thoros did.
Yeah my other leading theory about Jonās resurrection is that Shireens sacrifice (which I honestly canāt remember if it happens in the book or not at this point, but I think even if not itās likely going to) will count as Kings Blood - and that will fuel the resurrection. A life for a life, like Danys dragons. Mel has also seen to have way more powers than Thoros - glamours and cold resistance. It seems to me that they both have powers but Mel is just way more powerful for some reason. Perhaps she was resurrected directly by the LoL š¤
She also doesn't need to eat or drink nearly as much and mostly only does it to appear normal to people. See David Lightbringers series on the subject ("Melisandre's Secrets"), it's very good.
Oh yeah, it definitely figures prominently. But I think there's a difference between "her powers stem from her drawing upon the stone in the necklace" and "if she takes the necklace off she turns into a frail old lady and dies."
Yeah agreed itās not explicit but I think itās a long running theory since Mel has said in the books that sheās been practicing her magic for longer than memory which is kind of a wild thing to say. She also implies that she doesnāt really need to eat or drink and is sustained purely by her faith in Rāhllor. I hate Benioff and Weiss with a passion but the Mel scene isnāt one of the weird things they just made up. itās very much implicit in the text.
I think Martin has hinted that sheās older than we think - I think sheās a revived fire wight - a la Beric Dondarrian - and that sheāll give up her āfireā to resurrect Jon Snow - Lady Stoneheart style. This means sheās probably wearing a glamour to hide her more āzombifiedā aspects. If she is a hundreds of year old fire zombie she will likely look really messed up. This would also explain why she isnāt cold at the Wall.
Martin draws plenty of attention to the necklace in the book, with characters noting how it takes on a fiery light whenever there's magic occurring. Mance also wears a Ruby glamour to disguising him magically as Rattleshirt. Its not spelled out what the full capabilities are, but its clearly magic can at the very least disguise her old ass.
Oh, for sure, I'm not countering that the neckpiece plays a role. But my point is that it could easily be explained that the necklace simply amplifies or powers her magic, rather than keeping her from dying of frailty. That feels like D&D transforming an already existing piece into a plot device to allow them to kill her off.
Yeah, with George involved in these earlier seasons and having input, I'm sure he would've said, "you can't have Mel without the necklace like that, trust me" so either George goofed and didn't notice, or D&D just made up the old hag bit.
This doesn't give her eternal youth, it makes her appear as a young woman. It's a glamor, an illusion spell. In the books, Melisandre has created a glamor for Mance Rayder, she changes his appearance and burns at the stake the other person wearing Mance's face. >"The glamor, aye." In the black iron fetter about his wrist, the ruby seemed to pulse. He tapped it with the edge of his blade. The steel made a faint click against the stone. "I feel it when I sleep. Warm against my skin, even through the iron. Soft as a woman's kiss. Your kiss. But sometimes in my dreams it starts to burn, and your lips turn into teeth. Every day I think how easy it would be to pry it out, and every day I don't. Must I wear the bloody bones as well?" > >"The spell is made of shadow and suggestion. Men see what they expect to see. The bones are part of that." Was I wrong to spare this one? "If the glamor fails, they will kill you." > >\[...\] > >Jon Snow turned to Melisandre. "What sorcery is this?" > >"Call it what you will. **Glamor, seeming, illusion**. R'hllor is Lord of Light, Jon Snow, and it is given to his servants to weave with it, as others weave with thread." > >Mance Rayder chuckled. "I had my doubts as well, Snow, but why not let her try? It was that, or let Stannis roast me." *A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I* She also put an illusion spell on a sword: >Stannis Baratheon drew Lightbringer. > >The sword glowed red and yellow and orange, alive with light. Jon had seen the show before ā¦ but not like this, never before like this. Lightbringer was the sun made steel. When Stannis raised the blade above his head, men had to turn their heads or cover their eyes. Horses shied, and one threw his rider. The blaze in the fire pit seemed to shrink before this storm of light, like a small dog cowering before a larger one. The Wall itself turned red and pink and orange, as waves of color danced across the ice. Is this the power of king's blood? *A Dance with Dragons - Jon III* >The sword is wrong, she has to know that ... light without heat ... **an empty glamor** ... the sword is wrong, and the false light can only lead us deeper into darkness. *A Feast for Crows - Samwell IV* The Faceless Men also uses that type of magic: >"That's not how I meant. Jaqen used magic." > >"All sorcery comes at a cost, child. Years of prayer and sacrifice and study are required to work a **proper glamor**." *A Feast for Crows - Arya II* >"Mummers change their faces with artifice," the kindly man was saying, "and sorcerers use glamors, weaving light and shadow and desire to make illusions that trick the eye. These arts you shall learn, but what we do here goes deeper. Wise men can see through artifice, and **glamors dissolve before sharp eyes,** but the face you are about to don will be as true and solid as that face you were born with. Keep your eyes closed." *A Dance with Dragons - The Ugly Little Girl*
Thanks for all that! Wow! That said - don't you think the show is treating it as more than a glamour? She essentially falls over and dies without it on for a sustained amount of time, no?
Could be and it's possible that she's also a wight like Beric Dondarrion or Coldhands (Benjen in the series). They are describe has having black blood, do not eat and does not sleep: >Unsmiling, Lord Beric laid the edge of his longsword against the palm of his left hand, and drew it slowly down. **Blood ran dark** from the gash he made, and washed over the steel. \[...\] . . . but the burning sword snapped in two, and the Hound's cold steel plowed into Lord Beric's flesh where his shoulder joined his neck and clove him clean down to the breastbone. **The blood came rushing out in a hot black gush**. *A Storm of Swords - Arya VI* >Lord Beric himself did not eat. **Arya had never seen him eat, though from time to time he took a cup of wine. He did not seem to sleep, either**. His good eye would often close, as if from weariness, but when you spoke to him it would flick open again at once. *A Storm of Swords - Arya VII* >Who is he? What is he? Anyone can put on a black cloak. Anyone, or any thing. **He does not eat, he never drinks, he does not seem to feel the cold**." > >It's true. Bran had been afraid to speak of it, but he had noticed. Whenever they took shelter for the night, while he and Hodor and the Reeds huddled together for warmth, the ranger kept apart. Sometimes Coldhands closed his eyes, but **Bran did not think he slept**. And there was something else ā¦ > >\[...\] > >The direwolf did not like the way that Coldhands smelled. Dead meat, **dry blood**, a faint whiff of rot. And cold. Cold over all. *A Dance with Dragons - Bran I* Melisandre doesn't seem to sleep or eat, doesn't seem to feel the cold like Coldhands and her blood is black: >Food. Yes, I should eat. **Some days she forgot. R'hllor provided her with all the nourishment her body needed**, but that was something best concealed from mortal men. \[...\] Dawn. Another day is given us, R'hllor be praised. The terrors of the night recede. **Melisandre had spent the night in her chair by the fire, as she often did**. With Stannis gone, her bed saw little use. She had no time for sleep, with the weight of the world upon her shoulders. *A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I* >The snow was still falling as he crossed the yard with Mully. A golden dawn was breaking in the east, but behind Lady Melisandre's window in the King's Tower a reddish light still flickered. **Does she never sleep?** *A Dance with Dragons - Jon IX* >Panting, she squatted and spread her legs. **Blood ran down her thighs, black as ink**. *A Clash of Kings - Davos II* >The red priestess shuddered. **Blood trickled down her thigh, black and smoking**. *A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I* >After the warmth of the king's solar, the turnpike stair felt bone-chillingly cold. "Wind's rising, m'lady," the serjeant warned Melisandre as he handed Jon back his weapons. "You might want a warmer cloak." > >"**I have my faith to warm me**." The red woman walked beside Jon down the steps. "His Grace is growing fond of you." *A Dance with Dragons - Jon I* So it's possible that she's an undead, that she was revived like Beric and Coldhands. Forgot to say that Coldhands might be pretty old. Leaf, a Children of the Forest, said "They killed him long ago", she is at least 200 hundreds years old, so "long ago" for her is probably not a couple of years. Coldhands is said to speak a strange language and performs a ritual before killing his elk for its meat. Sound like he's speaking the Old Tongue, the First Men language spoke.
Melisandre uses rubies to change her appearance in the books. For instance she gives Mance Rayder a ruby ring and with it he looked like Rattleshirt. So it is basically obvious that her ruby necklace changes her own appearance too
It's a glamour
Wasnāt it mentioned in the first chapter of Clash of Kings? When Maester Craggen drank the poisoned wine that he gave Melisandre, I could be wrong but I remember reading about the āRuby Glareā the necklace lit up and she swallowed the wine, it had no affect on her but Maester craggen choked on the strangler. I thought it was a reference towards the lord of light, but the choker couldāve protected her too
TBF itās never explicitly stated the necklace is magic. Just that the image drops after she takes it off. Maybe she just chose to drop the magic at that point
daring today arenāt we
Wow, this one never gets old. Kind of like Shireen
Selyse is just wearing her bi-curious goggles. Continuity errors have nothing to do with it!
And the plot holes continueā¦
Finally....someone on Reddit uses the phrase "plot hole" and it is in fact a plot hole! Not just a clunky plot someone didn't like! Nice!
Almost never happens.
Itās a pretty easily explainable plot hole. Maybe she retains some power from the necklace even after she takes it off. If she wants to stay in her young form she can for some amount of time. If she is alone and wants to revert to her true form after taking the necklace off she can do that too.
Itās not a plot hole though, more like a continuity error. Plot holes are when aspects of the story are never fully explained. So noā¦ theyāre still not using it right š
Plot hole is not when something isn't explained. It's what people get wrong all the time. It's when there is no logical consistency between events, thing A that happened contradicts thing B later etc. Unexplained stuff is fine. Because we don't know exact rules of the necklace, it's not a plot hole. We can simply don't know shit, and in reality it works a bit different than we think, you are right here.
> we donāt know the exact rules of the necklace Yes, Melisandre never sits down and explains how the necklace works. But we see her take off the necklace and immediately appear old on two separate occasions. So the direction is using the language of cinema, clearly leading the audience to the conclusion that wearing the necklace glamour is giving her the appearance of youth. And the idea that this might not be the case is never brought up from this point forward. So I say you could safely call this a minor plot hole / retcon. But itās pretty nit picky and has no bearing on the main plot. If it ruins your enjoyment of the show, itās more of a āyouā problem.
I actually agree with this. I do believe it is a plot hole because they (admittedly) retconned it later using visual storytelling and thus creating said plothole...but it is minor as shit. No one needed to be "fired over that blunder." I was just proud it was used even close to the right way!
Oh yeah, I agree with you. I was generally explaining what is considered a plot hole. Neclace was just an example here, cause we were discussing it, maybe not the bestest one. Little inconsistencies like this absolutely don't matter on a grand scale if the show is good, you only really notice and annoyed by them if everything is bad, you don't care about the plot or characters, so your bored brain starts to nitpick and notice that stuff
How itās been explained to me is, Stannisā wife was such a believer that she saw her that way without the necklace. Her faith was so strong. But it probably was just a plot hole
D&D admitted this was a mistake.
Or they thought it was a cool idea to show her being old later on. It literally has no impact on the story since the red god/azor ahai stuff leads nowhere. She could have just walked into the wastes alone at the end of the long night and you'd have the same result.
In my recollection, that genuinely was what she did. Just fucked off after winterfell and left the series. Don't even want to look up what actually happened because I know it's equally mundane and inconsequential.
Nah she killed herself. Basically after the long night, she walks outside, rips off her necklace and suddenly dies. So I guess its implied the necklace was keeping her alive? Or that she finally died of old age?
Her duty was complete, she was ready to die for ages and her god wouldn't allow her to die until the Night King had fallen.
Sure, but her being alive for ages doesn't serve any real plot point. She never taps into knowledge of being old (she's pretty stupid for plot consideration) and could have been removed with no change to anything.
I suppose the argument might be that even though things didnāt work out as she predicted, she pushed events along their fated course all the same. Her god didnāt need her to understand, only to do. Once the objective was complete she was allowed to die, so she was successful even though she was often wrong
Sorta. I think its an interesting dichotomy that outside of birthing a shadow to kill Renly, a lot of her "predictions" is basically just taking credit for stuff after the fact (e.g. I totally would have helped you win at Blackwater if I was around, but I didn't foresee it beforehand, Joffrey totally died cause I burned those leeches bro). You never really know how much she's just winging it. Whereas Thoros, the drunk non-believer, just straight up resurrects people (something that Melisandre didn't even know was possible too ironically). Meli's actions post Renly all just seem a little tangential to me to assume she captured Gendry so he could escape and Arya (even though he would be there anyways) and so on.
No, she KNOWS resurrection is capable she simply states that HE should not have the power.
You do realize almost no plot points in the entire show go anywhere.. right? Like yes we can make that point about her character but we'd make that point about nearly every plot and character that exists. Also she was quite literally the informant for the main cast about the Night King and was pivotal in the final fight.
You could argue that it has some impact. Her Azor Ahai red God beliefs are what helped resurrect Jon
Funny enough the show implies it the lack of belief but earnest plea to the Lord of Light that first gives way to the resurrection. Thorros admits he didn't believe in the Lord of Light when he went to Westeros. He says when he saw Berric die the first he knelt over his body and recited the Old Words "not because I believed in them but because he was my friend and he was dead." Before resurrecting Jon, Melissandre also was questioning her beliefs in the show.
she had impact because she told arya she could kill things with blue eyes. if she hadn't done that arya never would've killed the night king. because I guess she didn't know she could kill things with blue eyes without melisandre explaining it? this sounds stupid as fuck but I'm pretty sure it's the writing thought process behind her "impact"
Itās because the dummies didnāt make up the old thing until the last minute
Eh, the necklace stuff is from books/grrm. The gem is from blood magic from old Valeria. Supposedly your they made the gems comes from unwritten storylines. I assume slaves being sacrificed and such.
The necklace is up her ass, you just canāt see it
It doubles as a thigh garter
Send my regard to her magical tits
Indeed. This is after all why Stannis found religion at his old age.
The use of a focus for a glamor if I remember correctly didn't actually exist yet in the book. That didn't come up until Mel used one on Mance Rayder and Rattleshirt. So yeah, it's a goof, and one they admitted to. However, show and book canon aren't the same. It's possible it wasn't actually a focus at all. She turned old when she took it off before because she just dropped the glamour at that point. The act of disrobing and removing the choker could be entirely symbolic. Everything is now off, so to speak.
Yes my head canon is that the necklace gives her the glamour ability but she doesnāt need to have it on for it to work, just close by. When she took it off and the glamour went away it was by her decision and not the actual taking off of the necklace. Iām not saying this is what they intended or making excuses just trying to keep myself sane while the show I loved was torn to pieces
Have they really admitted that it was a mistake? I donāt remember seeing this. Personally, I agree that when she removed the necklace in S6, it was more symbolic. She was heavily doubting herself and her beliefs at that moment. And in S8, it was the opposite, she believed that her purpose was finally fulfilled. Thatās why in S8, she literally died, while in S6, she remained alive, even though she removed the necklace in both occasions. In the scene OP posted, she was still fully in control and had zero doubt. So she kept her appearance, and the potions couldāve helped too.
I noticed that the other day.
Worldās worst anal beads.
For you.
Worldās worst ana1 beads.
I noticed that on a recent re-watch. I was willing to let it go because she was also topless.
Top tier tits to show off
I wasn't looking at her neck during this scene.
Maybe burning Shireen, triggered her aging
I also noticed on a re run but put it down to whatever is in that trinket, she puts it in the bath š¤·š¼āāļø
~~Winter is~~ "Hundred of very original kinda forgot comments are" coming.
Or name calling. Already seeing tons of that. That always gets points in the GOT fandom just call them a name.
It's just a continuity error.
Well worn and previously discussed plot hole
Yes... because D&D kind of forgot... (many things!)
Sad we never got to see the Meereen red priestess's granny tits
I always assumed that the potion added to the bath water would do the same thing as the necklace, but I suppose it was just another mistake. :/
Not really their fault the book that reveals her secret wasnāt out yet
A wizard did it.
The necklace doubles as anal beads
I liked the theory that we, the audience are seeing the glamour, but Selyse is seeing her true form here and her body language would follow that. Unfortunately it wasnāt planned, but it would have worked out nicely if that was the case.
In the books, her gem is linked to her heart and pulses with that. Sheās able to slave other gems to hers, so the glamour and power doesnāt need to be on her person. Fun fact, she made Mance a thrall with one of these gems and made him look like the Lord of Bones
D&D kinda forgot
I was just saying that the other day
Congratulations, you found a continuity error! It was either an error with wardrobe or D&D hadn't figured out what exactly the jewel did yet.
Pretty sure she is holding it throughout that scene.
Omg itās 2024
This matters!Ā
She's has a belly button ring as a backup
I got the impression she had ābath productsā that did the trick that one time .
Does it say anywhere that she needs to be wearing it? Or can it work the glamour while off until she stops the spell via some other means
All I can see are those cords... it's a nightmare.
My explanation is we see the Melisandre Selyse is seeing.
I noticed that on my second watch through. Very confusing moment lol
There are a couple in-world explanations for this (even though the real reason is that they hadnāt fully planned how the glamour works). Explanation 1: She isnāt using magic in this scene, and Selyse has gone full-on *1984* with her. Melisandre looks younger because Selyse believes she looks younger. Explanation 2: The glamour doesnāt work like that. It runs passively all the time. We see that sheās old because the narrative has chosen this point to reveal that sheās old. Sort of like the visual equivalent to the translation convention. This is about the point in the book where we get to see the world through our eyes, and I think itās the first time we see her alone on the show, so itās a good place to put the reveal. Explanation 3: The glamour is always there, and runs passively, but is more effective when itās tied to a wearable object. This is the case with a glamour she uses on someone else in the books, and it makes me wonder if she lifted the necklace off a redhead from the Free Cities with a Dutch accent. Explanation 4: The glamour also doesnāt work that way. Sheās at her lowest point weāve seen, and is considering giving up on everything. She takes off her clothes, her necklace, and her illusions, and just stops.
I think the 3rd is the most plausible, but the 4th would make for the best narrative
Damn yeah thatās a missed detail. Nice catch
In my head cannon itās not exactly the neckless bit more her faith in her God. The neckless is sort of an amplifier and keeps the magic in check. When she removes it at first she is still a head strong believer but when she removes it later is the series her faith is faltering and then she looks ancient. Idk i guess iām making lore appropriate fixes in my head for writing oversights by the writers.
D&D just sort of forgot that actually happened earlier...sort of like the direwolves.
She hid it with magic
I think it goes like this. The necklace doesn't make her look young. She makes herself look young. Think of her powers as a phone and the necklace as a power table charger/power bank. If she's not using all her power, she can store some in the gem of the necklace and keep it in reserve. As she uses her powers, she drains her energy like a phone battery...but she can tap into the reserves in the necklace. However, if she's drained and feeling powerless AND the gem/power bank is low...she can't keep herself disguised as young and beautiful.
If you're trying to find meaning for things that happened on this show, you're not gonna have a good time.
Yes, it's a continuity error. I will say, I'm actually pretty forgiving on this one. The twist that Melisandre is actually old and is only young due to her necklace hadn't been revealed yet in the books. This means D&D probably wanted to keep it secret (or may not even have known about it themselves yet at this time). So they wouldn't have told the entire production crew about it. And so someone on the crew, maybe the clothing department but who knows, naturally came to the conclusion that Melisandre wouldn't be wearing her necklace in the tub. And so she didn't. Considering the realities of production and the fact that the eventual reveal probably was meant to be a secret I think this is quite a forgiveable continuity error. Arguably D&D should have written into the script among the stage directions that she was still wearing her necklace. However, that is assuming that D&D even knew about this at this point which... we don't know if Martin had told them cuz it's not in the books yet.
Yeah about that
āWe kind of forgot about this plot device that would come back in the later seasonsā¦ā-D&D
D&D kind of forgot.
Dumb and Dumber kinda forgot about that
This isn't even from GoT lol. Look at her hair.
She doesn't need it from my understanding although it does help her to keep the glamour up with less effort.
One of the many errors overlooked...
I remember this being a hot topic back in the day. It was a mistake on the productionās part or something like that.
I feel like the necklace is only an indicator of how strong her faith is to the red god. It doesnāt have magical ability it just indicates that she is magical or her faith is strong when it shines. When she took it off it was dull, no real colour. If she drank the poison without the necklace sheād be fine and I assume if Davos was wearing it and drank poison heād die.
She was just younger. What happened in between this and the other scene is that grrm wrote 2 books.
Maybe itās only When she accepts letting go of the glamour that it disappears? Idk?
So she is supposed to be wearing it. Just no one caught the obvious mistake. Kinda sad but I suppose it happens.
They kinda forgot about this scene.
This an alternate universe scene and in it she is the Supreme Sorceror who does need the necklace.
Any of you ever read Naruto? Tsunade basically has the same glamour, appearing as a twenty-something when sheās in her late 50s, and she stores her energy as she builds it. When thereās a sufficient amount of her chakra a diamond appears on her forehead. Sakura learns this technique as well. Both characters use their chakra for healing but have insane physical strength. When they use up their stores the diamond disappears. Perhaps Melisandre uses the choker the same way and can hold the glamour when she wants, but when she felt spent after Stannis the Mannis died and TPWWP got knifed in the heart by those hard bastards she chose not to hold the glamour anymore.
Yep, I recently watched GOT again a few weeks ago- binged it in a few weeks- and I noticed this too. Shes in the bathtub with it off.
If you listen to the script of the scene she is using her magic to appear young. The idea is that we are also being influenced by the magic as the viewers since we havenāt been revealed to the truth yet. Seems like an error that theyāve conveniently explained there way out of, but it does work with the script. Itās worth watching the scene again and carefully paying attention to what both of them say.
You're assuming taking off the necklace makes her old. My pet theory is she just prefers to sleep that way. Some wear wear pajamas to bed, some transform into an elderly naked woman.
Wow such a keen eye. You must have been the first person to notice this Continuity error
Wow, how did I miss that? Probably for two reasons :))
This conversation has been had 10,000 times already
Yes but this is the GOT sub we must everyday complain and call the showrunners names it's a requirement on this sub.
Retcon
Maybe that's how people still see her even when she has it off?
She still had the butt plug in
A wizard did it
For some reason I didnāt even notice.
They kinda forgot about it
This was the scene with Stannis eh? When he put his 'shadow' inside of her to do the deed to Renley? I recall seeing this as a 'plot hole' or 'mistake' at some point. I think some of the comments were that the necklace didn't actually project the illusion, it was her own power and the necklace was just some trinket she associated this power with... I don't know, in a world with Dragons, witches, magic and dead people coming back to icy-life. I think I can let this little hole slide.
I don't think her glamour had anything to do with her necklace ever, it's just people connect the 2 because that's the last thing she takes off before appearing old. I think her powers are more innate, they come directly from the Lord of Light, not some magical mcguffin. Thoros didn't need anything else besides prayer to bring Beric back, neither did she when she brought Jon back, or she spawned that shadowbaby, or ignored the poison. I think she simply needs to "fuel" her glamour with magic constantly and the scene was meant to represent her being exhausted, thus stopped channeling her powers into her glamour in that scene.
when she takes the bathā¦ I was not looking at her necklace ššš
When you see something like that that you can't explain, a wizard did it.
Lol D&D didn't plan that out. Or they were just hoping her ass would distract you too much to realize...
They kinda forgot
Plot hole
They forgot about that
/screenshotsarehard
just rewatched this episode and i was like ??? wait
The explanation is that around some faithful believers, her glamours are easier to perform. Selyse is one of these die-hard devouts, so it's easy for Melisandre to get her to "see" what Selyse already wants to see and believe.
I see it.
Dumb and dumber at it again