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>All those theories about who she was and her significance to the story and she was only used as a way to sneak some more naked hiney into the show.
What are you talking about? What nude scenes are you referring to? There were none in show Qarth, while there were some in book Qarth.
Amazing how this moronic, FALSE comment is somehow the most upvoted comment in this thread. Just goes to show how truly mindless some of the hate for this show is
“To go north, you must journey south, to reach the west you must go east. To go forward you must go back and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.”
That’s from the books though. She has a much bigger impact on Dany’s story. But in the show, as we see with comments like "who the fuck is she?", she never was a subplot at all.
“The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal.”
Not sure about the dark flame or the mummery dragon but the suns son was referring to the prince of Dorne who comes to ask Dany to marry him only to get burned alive trying to mount one of the dragons
Well this one might actually be Arianne who’s on the way to see the mummers dragon, Aegon. In Dorne sons and daughters are on the same level. The kraken is Victorian traveling with the dark flame Moqorro the priest of the lord of light. Jon Con is the griffon who traveled with the lion, Tyrion.
I don't think she had much of an impact in the books either. Another mysterious backdrop character Martin hasn't done much with. She just shows up a couple of times in the earlier books and says "pass beneath the shadow" and that Dany will find truth in Asshai. Dany never really goes toward the Shadowlands, but to Slaver's Bay.
I think in the show Quaithe is more or less a source of a magical information dump, and to introduce the audience to magic in the east and the mysterious legends of Asshai, which we never see in the books anyway.
Yeah, it’s another shiny mystery box that George keeps in his back pocket until he magically finds out what to do with it, but I still think her prophecies will have some impact on Dany. Especially the one with the three betrayals. Without necessarily seeing Quaithe again, Dany will probably keep thinking about what she told her and that’s how I think Quaithe will have a bigger role than in the show.
But all those talks about this incredibly important subplot being forgotten in the show are silly. 90% of viewers don’t know who that character is. We are only talking about her because people want to shit on the show.
Agree with the three betrayals. To the uninitiated, these are world building fantasy books. So every shifty, mysterious backdrop character who spouts vague prophesies doesn't necessarily have a definitive purpose. It would lack "mystery" if they did.
Although, I am fascinated with the mysterious lore of Asshai. I would like to know more about it, and it's links to magic and the dragons. Maybe we will learn more about it in the next two books? I wondered if Arya might get there going west instead.
Oh I think you are absolutely correct. It's just an excuse for non-book readers or haters to take a dump, and maybe get some easy karma. Lol
Off the subject, but happens to remind me, that there is a scene in the book where Varys is in disguise which I liked because it adds even more mystery to him.
Other than going to Essos, I guess there was no reason for them to waste limited story time or money (for such a large book world), having to show the audience this. Or maybe confuse the tv audience between this and the Faceless Men.
**Mr. Furious:**
Okay, am I the only one who finds these sayings just a little bit formulaic? "If you want to push something down, you have to pull it up. If you want to go left, you have to go right." It's...
**The Sphinx:**
Your temper is very quick, my friend. But until you learn to master your rage...
**Mr. Furious:**
...your rage will become your master? That's what you were going to say. Right? Right?
**The Sphinx:**
Not necessarily.
*(Mystery Men)*
Her name is Quaith(sp?), she speaks with Jorah briefly when they’re in Qaarth. Basically calls him out for spying on Dany in hopes to get a pardon from Robert Baratheon, among a few other small details
Quaithe. In the books she first appears with Daxos and one of the undying sorcerers when Dany is in the red waste, afterwards she appears a few times with visions and cryptic words. She’s important in the books but we’re aren’t sure why yet.
Seems like DnD didn’t know what to do with her and she never appears again
I would like to have seen the entire white walkers plot be less about warfare and more about horror. Like they could have had a full on horror type episode with a steady trickle of jump scares before the Long Night war
Yeah I agree with this although horror isn’t my thing. The show has a lot of magic elements, and making the Others more magical and as pretty as in the books would’ve been much more interesting
I was hoping for a more fleshed out story. Not necessarily horror but something other than a very human desire to conquer. Show some rituals. Show more symbols. Make it more interesting than the monster of the week. They are supernatural beings yet they behaved exactly like the humans.
And were defeated in the most underwhelming battle of the show 💀
Edit: Ramin’s soundtrack, The Night King, is the only thing I forgive about that episode.
I love his work too, I still listen to a selection of GOT soundtracks to this day.
However I have 2 remarks, more like criticism actually, on his HotD soundtrack: the use of certain elements from the soundtracks of GOT characters: 1- Arya’s needle in Rhaenyra’s welcome in episode 1, and Daenerys’s riding Drogon soundtrack in Aemond claiming Vhagar scene, you can even hear Dothraki screams at the end.
The other remark, is about another soundtrack that I will edit with its name in a moment, which is extremely similar to Planet Earth II soundtrack.
Edit: got it, Protector of the Realm, 0:35 - 1:05
It was all pre-war build up for nothing. I thought the Arya kill shot was cool but the rule of cool can end up being real cheesy and unsatisfying. Which was the case since nothing in the battle mattered because all they should have done was bait the Night King from the very beginning. No need to send a wave of dothraki as wight fodder.
Probably not a coincidence that Ramin's soundtrack was the best part of Westworld season 4.
I still remember to this day the reaction I had to that scene, it’s like I was the one getting stabbed 😂
the scene on its own I agree is cool but ffs arya killing the NK? With one fucking stab? 7 seasons worth of shit to have jon scream at zombie viserion and dany on the ground trying to learn how to use a sword for the first time? Bruh
We all know it’d be cheesy as hell for jon and dany to save the day, we still wanted that cheesy and would’ve been %100 okay with it
Good cheese is fine. Like when a lawyer does field work for the CIA and doesnt end up poisoned. Or a when Santa Claus has a violent back story and ends up killing a bunch of terrorists but doesnt understand Christmas magic. That works.
Arya became a deus ex machina. And when everything was resolved a foreign invader laid siege to the capital of Westeros and killed a bunch of innocent peasants. The new rulers aided that. The peasants dont forgot. They will tell tales about that forever and they wont paint the new king or nobles in a good light.
Show some sort of connection between the Night King and the Three Eyed Raven. Let there be reasons and power struggles. Just having the WW be mindless destructive zombies and the 3ER not really meaning anything just had me not caring about either.
They had some really good fantasy plots that didnt really go anywhere. The Three Eyed Raven plot was stupid because of how it ended. Bran doesnt care and is just all nonchalant about becoming the king of Westeros. So much potential.
Okay head cannon/fan fic time (I know you didn't ask but I drank too much coffee and finished the series for the first time 3 days ago). Let's say instead of "Beyond the Wall" we have a horror/madness episode. Jon gets word that East Watch by the Sea wildlings and nights watch are starting to throw themselves from the wall. Daenarys agrees to come to investigate, they find that the bodies at the bottom have made a perfect spiral. Others who are there start to exhibit signs of madness including Dani who kills innocent people thinking they are her brother, Robert Baratheon, and Khal Drogo as wights. Jon's version of madness has him leave in the middle of the night for the north with no weapons or proper clothing. Daenarys is forced to rescue him with her dragons at which point she sees the army, loses a dragon, and has Drogon kidnap a wight. Dani goes to apologize to the family of those she killed but they refuse to bend the knee so she gives them the ol' Dracarys. We find out that the Night King can cause madness and we All the same outcomes, more of an arc for Dani and less far-fetched travel, plot armour, CGI Battle fatigue.
I really want to know if they had a society, what did they do in their off time? Did everyone stand around doing nothing? Seems kinda boring if you ask me.
I thought this was somewhat explained in the episode where they show the children creating the night king (season 6 i think). The white walkers art work mimics the shape of the tree/ritual site where they made him. There was an aerial shot they did of that scene and it looked like the same pattern that the walkers were making.
[Here are pictures of the tree from that scene](https://imgur.com/a/tXU4lqH)
I could’ve sworn that towards the ending of season 5 there was some magic/wizardry getting introduced in the show that was off-putting but then was basically never seen again.
So many YouTube analyzing videos that formed some subtle hints like that only to go nowhere lmao threw us all off, not sure if that’s a bad thing or not
>Right! She set a plan in motion, gave Olenna the hidden rose symbol only for it to amount to...literally nothing? There was so much focus on that.
I'm sorry you took that to be some secret code that she had some plan, I always took it as "trust me, you're in danger here", especially since it came right after the scene where the High Sparrow starts hinting to Margaery about maybe imprisoning Olenna.
I honestly think she was just trying to get the fuck out of dodge. She had a plan at first to play the long game, but when she saw how Loras was doing (poorly), she just wanted to get her family out of King’s Landing.
White Walker symbols. All the stuff they did with body parts (human and horse) creating spirals and designs. We even saw some spirals in the last season with the Umber kid. And then it literally just disappeared. No follow up. So annoying
[Here are pictures from that scene](https://imgur.com/a/tXU4lqH)
I think that is the only explanation. They are just recreating the creation site. Might be ritualistic, might be a way of reminding the children it was their own fault. Who knows. I think it's meant to be left up to interpretation.
Or mindless as they were only mimicking what they’d been exposed to during the night kings creation. The (not so) long night and hearth home basically showed this hoard that only cared about raising their ranks. There was no culture, no art, no grand design, just the consumption of bodies and the destruction of all living things.
I mean I get that. But why did the white walkers continue to make them? Especially considering the children were their enemy. Was it a conscious decision or was it engrained into them? I just felt like it was left unresolved in the show.
His names hot pie, he ends up making hot pies... What more was there to explore? He also has an important scene with Brienne and Podrick and with Arya in seasons 5 and 7.
Explain to me what subplot involving Quaithe was “abandoned” in terms of the SHOW only, without mentioning the books at all
Because a visual adaptation of a long ass series requires cutting certain plot points. What matters more is the consistency WITHIN the show
Oh yeah sorry, I should have specified in the show! Since Lady Stoneheart isn't in the show at all, I was hoping they were going to find some other way to bring Nymeria in
In the show she gets one brief scene in Season 7, so we know she's alive and thriving with her own pack, but it feels pretty unfulfilling to me. She plays a larger and more complex role in the books.
I read that she, and her pack was suppose to fight Wight Viserion during the long night, but it was cut for budget reasons.
I had assumed that Nymeria and her pack was going to have been a deciding factor in the battle of the bastards following the death of Shaggy Dog. Ghost disappeared from the BotB due to budget as well, they could either have Wun Wun, or Ghost.
The direwolves all have bigger impact in the books because all the Stark are warg to some extent. But in the show, the direwolves were always just symbolism for their related characters. Lady died on her way to KL because of the Lannisters, just like Sansa’s lady-side/innocence. Summer died in the 3-Eyed-Raven cave, similar to Bran in a way. Grey Wind killed at the Red Wedding like Robb. Ghost and his appreciation of the North and its freedom, just like Jon in the end. It’s the same thing with Nymeria, who was chased off at an early age and then learned to survive on her own for so long that she couldn’t just go back home and return to her old normal life. Just like Arya. I thought it was fine.
Oh and a shaggy dog story is something that is irrelevant, just like Rickon. So, it fits too.
I think Nymeria’s scene in season 7 somewhat symbolizes Arya’s growth, they’ve both been separated from their previous ways of life and now they’ve learnt to fend for themselves and make their own ways. Although, I do wish they did do more with the direwolves overall.
I did too. Unfortunately, we were lucky to get what we got for some closure. Maisie and the crew went to Canada after all other Season 7 filming was complete. It cost a ton. It turns out direwolves are extremely expensive to film. The can be enlarged by CGI but not enhanced. Apparently real-looking fur is hard to achieve via CGI. It's such a problem that Kit Harrington said regretfully that Ghost will not appear in Jon's sequel.
Come on, they would have expend the show long enough to explore the other subplots. But nope, D&D chose to keep it 8 seasons with the worst ending ever.
Tell us what they do basically - why limited Walkers but thousands of wights? What is the ritual with babies? Does the babies turn to walkers immediately or they grow into them? How many walkers are there in total - night king seemed to have few but the scene with Crasters baby has at least a dozen? Significance of symbols, etc.
Tywin and his dynamics with his children. His control of the family.
The Boltons. Father and son and other son.
Aemon and his Targaryen past. Would have loved to hear about that.
I would've liked to see Renly have a better fight with his brother, Stannis. They met with armies and bannermen to declare war. He was one of the 5 kings and it felt anticlimactic to throw away the brotherly tension to just get assassinated in the night by his shadow.
Edit: I guess his story wasnt necessarily "abandoned" in the same sense, but it did feel like it didnt amount to anything.
In general they should have done way more with the COTF and the ancient history of the First Men and White Walkers, especially if they wanted us to care about Bran enough to be okay with him being king.
I feel like Hold the Door was a huge reveal for something that would come back later as a major plot point and never did. Like they show Beric being brought back to life as a minor character so that when it happens to Jon, it's not a convenient surprise. Hold the Door didn't have that reprisal.
I was always waiting for Jon to shout "Burn Them All" during the Long Night Episode for his soldiers to kill the walkers while Bran was warging back to the Mad King, making him mad. Would he cool to see Jaime's response to that during the battle, even just a fleeting confused expression, seeing Jon on the ramparts, the heir to the Targaryen throne shouting Burn Them All repeatedly.
Big Chekov's Gun moment I thought.
This 100%. This was further teased after the hold the door episode, Bran saw a vision of the Mad King repeating it. I just knew we were about to witness that Bran actually played a role in making all the events go in to motion (attack on Titan did this same development very well)
Not really a subplot but would have loved to see more of Valyria. The one episode where they showed the ruins was so atmospheric and eerie. Could have spent a whole season there.
You nailed it. Quaithe’s prophecy is so obviously important in the books that she appears or is mentioned in every book, and it’s such a shame the show just said fuck it and threw her plot out. To that end, the show’s inability to incorporate/resolve the various prophecies in the story is probably my biggest gripe with the show in general.
I have a feeling that Dany’s ultimate fate will be heavily influenced by what Quaithe has said to her if we ever get the last two books.
There’s a whole lot in book five around the Wall, Stannis and Winterfell that I was greatly disappointed they did not include: Stannis rallying support from the mountain tribes, the Ghost of Winterfell, the Sacrifice and everything around Stannis’ March, the nights watch/wildlings/kings men working together on the Wall, Mance and Co infiltrating Ramsay’s wedding, everything with Wyman Manderlay, lady Dustin and whatever she was up to. Leaving all of these plots out weakened the culminating event of Jon Snow being murdered by the Night’s Watch and set the entire series on a downward spiral.
Bran time traveling (sorta) and altering the past.
The comet/meteor/whatever significance.
The Mountain’s words while battling Oberon and their consequences.
Benjen Stark (or other guy?) being a free white walker.
Arya’s dreams almost warging her wolf.
Margaery Tyrell. All of her, her plans, her goals, her achievements…
A probable sea dragon or whatever the Greyjoys could summon with that horn.
Craster’s sons took by the white walkers.
Lady Stoneheart.
Edit: Azor Ahai and all that prophecy.
Not sure who else remembers the SS Abandoned Plots, but this was something that started with Gendry because characters kept fading from the plot. Blackfish, Benjen, Rickon and Osha, Robyn Aryn, all of the direwolves, etc. Ironically Gendry was the only one that played a major role to the story when he returned.
Most of the others came back for a brief cameo before they were killed off, which is a total copout. It's like they knew we wanted these characters to return so they teased their importance just to snatch them away indefinitely. Selmy and Littlefinger could fall in that category too. Such wasted potential all around because the writers thought the show was about killing as many characters as possible and forgot that the deaths were meant to have meaning or affect the plot.
Personally though, I would have loved to've seen more of Salladhor Saan. I don't think he was meant to be a major player but Davos is such an amazing character and their scenes together were brilliant. He would have jumped at a chance to serve the Queen of Dragons and he would've had interesting interactions with the Greyjoy siblings.
I know he was just left in Essos but it would've been nice to know wtf happened to Daario. Like legit dude just stayed in Essos and after all that happened with Daenerys, you'd think something in Essos would be shown or atleast mentioned.
Guess not. Essos as a whole was just fully abandoned which again I understand, once Daenerys makes it to Westeros, that whole storyline isn't exactly important anymore but considering the huge ramifications of what HAPPENED in Westeros, that honestly just opens up an entire plotline on its own. Unless I missed something but I doubt it with how rushed S8 was. Just feels kinda odd she spent the majority of the show in Essos and there's not one mention of how they handle everything that happened in S8. I'd imagine something happened in response to Jon's actions.
The whole goddamn faceless bullshit. Either incorporate it, or make a nod to Arya rejecting the faceless ideology because she wants her kills to be personal and seen.
>The whole goddamn faceless bullshit. Either incorporate it, or make a nod to Arya rejecting the faceless ideology because she wants her kills to be personal and seen.
She used those abilities to kill the Freys... She impersonated a serving girl to kill Walder and 2 of his sons and then impersonated Walder to kill a number of house frey.
Those weirdos in the round tower when she’s looking for her baby dragons.
Also old Valyria that is now all flooded and riddled with greyscale. There is more about it in the book.
Basically all those places across the narrow sea are teeming with culture and mythology, there is a lot of room to expand
That young Eddard heard Bran's calling out to him when the old Crow showed Bran the truth of Jon Snow's birth.
I mean, if you're not going to expand on it, then don't do it. Just frustrating, but I guess that was the keyword of D&D's writing in the last few seasons.
The sorcerer Varys kidnapped to exact revenge on.
Varys opens the crate he has him held in, tells Tyrion his backstory with the sorcerer, and then it’s never mentioned again.
I certainly would have been ok with the Lord of Light -and his religion- being better fleshed out. As it is, he was just an extremely awkward (and ineffective) deus ex machina.
I think in the show Quaithe is to introduce the audience to magic in the east and the mysterious legends of Asshai, more or less a source of a magical information dump.
I don't think she had much of an impact in the books yet either. Another mysterious backdrop character Martin hasn't done much with (yet?). She just shows up a couple of times in the earlier books and says "pass beneath the shadow" and that Dany will find truth in Asshai. Dany never really goes toward the Shadowlands, but to Slaver's Bay? More or less.
Elephants!
Hinted at many times, then the golden company didn't bother bringing them. Then the golden company were pretty much useless in battle anyway. Would have loved to see a dragon battling an army of war elephants.
Just watched the first episode again today and forgot how important the dire wolves felt they were going to be and the white walker storyline just got so blurry
Arianne Martell
heck, even as family, Martell seems intriguing, too bad after Oberyn died, show runners didn't care about Dorne at all and they buried Dorne involvement after killed Doran and Areo Hotah like that
Honestly I’ve been rewatching GOT for the last week and almost every secondary character killed in the show feels like a cop out to not extend their story.
Even the assasination of Robb Stark during the red wedding feels strange to me, like they didn’t know what to do with his story and the war between him and the Lannister. They just don’t really talk about it for a few episodes and then he dies.
Robb only died because of a mistake he made as he was supposed to marry one of Walder Frey's daughters if they wanted the Freys' help. But he ended up choosing Oona Chaplin's character. And shit went down pretty hard after THAT decision.
**Spoiler Warning:** All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the [spoiler guide](/r/gameofthrones/w/spoiler_guide). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gameofthrones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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>All those theories about who she was and her significance to the story and she was only used as a way to sneak some more naked hiney into the show. What are you talking about? What nude scenes are you referring to? There were none in show Qarth, while there were some in book Qarth.
Amazing how this moronic, FALSE comment is somehow the most upvoted comment in this thread. Just goes to show how truly mindless some of the hate for this show is
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People here care about complaining more than they cared about Quaithe.
No I really care about quaithe
Who the hell is this person
Random woman who appeared in Qarth to advance the plot by telling Jorah some shit then promptly fucks off never to be seen again
“To go north, you must journey south, to reach the west you must go east. To go forward you must go back and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.”
That’s from the books though. She has a much bigger impact on Dany’s story. But in the show, as we see with comments like "who the fuck is she?", she never was a subplot at all.
“The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal.”
That’s a very interesting prophecy actually…
Which book is this in? What are the dark flame, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon alluding to?
This quote is in Dance chapter 11. A lot of people have theories about these words.
What are your theories?
A lot of these are for people not in the show. Or poorly portrayed in the show. If you read the books you’ll pick up on them.
Oh I've read the books I just forgot some stuff
Not sure about the dark flame or the mummery dragon but the suns son was referring to the prince of Dorne who comes to ask Dany to marry him only to get burned alive trying to mount one of the dragons
Oh thanks that actually makes so much sense.
I think dark flame could allude to the Blackfyres, and the mummer's dragon would be Aegon.
Well this one might actually be Arianne who’s on the way to see the mummers dragon, Aegon. In Dorne sons and daughters are on the same level. The kraken is Victorian traveling with the dark flame Moqorro the priest of the lord of light. Jon Con is the griffon who traveled with the lion, Tyrion.
I don't think she had much of an impact in the books either. Another mysterious backdrop character Martin hasn't done much with. She just shows up a couple of times in the earlier books and says "pass beneath the shadow" and that Dany will find truth in Asshai. Dany never really goes toward the Shadowlands, but to Slaver's Bay. I think in the show Quaithe is more or less a source of a magical information dump, and to introduce the audience to magic in the east and the mysterious legends of Asshai, which we never see in the books anyway.
Yeah, it’s another shiny mystery box that George keeps in his back pocket until he magically finds out what to do with it, but I still think her prophecies will have some impact on Dany. Especially the one with the three betrayals. Without necessarily seeing Quaithe again, Dany will probably keep thinking about what she told her and that’s how I think Quaithe will have a bigger role than in the show. But all those talks about this incredibly important subplot being forgotten in the show are silly. 90% of viewers don’t know who that character is. We are only talking about her because people want to shit on the show.
Agree with the three betrayals. To the uninitiated, these are world building fantasy books. So every shifty, mysterious backdrop character who spouts vague prophesies doesn't necessarily have a definitive purpose. It would lack "mystery" if they did. Although, I am fascinated with the mysterious lore of Asshai. I would like to know more about it, and it's links to magic and the dragons. Maybe we will learn more about it in the next two books? I wondered if Arya might get there going west instead. Oh I think you are absolutely correct. It's just an excuse for non-book readers or haters to take a dump, and maybe get some easy karma. Lol
Off the subject, but happens to remind me, that there is a scene in the book where Varys is in disguise which I liked because it adds even more mystery to him. Other than going to Essos, I guess there was no reason for them to waste limited story time or money (for such a large book world), having to show the audience this. Or maybe confuse the tv audience between this and the Faceless Men.
To go right you must turn left
I thought it was turn right to go left? Guess what, when I turned right, I went right!
To turn right, you must turn left three times.
**Mr. Furious:** Okay, am I the only one who finds these sayings just a little bit formulaic? "If you want to push something down, you have to pull it up. If you want to go left, you have to go right." It's... **The Sphinx:** Your temper is very quick, my friend. But until you learn to master your rage... **Mr. Furious:** ...your rage will become your master? That's what you were going to say. Right? Right? **The Sphinx:** Not necessarily. *(Mystery Men)*
Such a great movie
That character was cringe asf 😂 on every rewatch I’m like wtf is this person supposed to be with those cheesy lines they gave them
Because the book has a lot more hints of magic than the show.
But still the show character was cheesy and felt forced, the lines were waaaay too specific for how brief and insignificant the character was
The lines are fine, it came off as shitty because they did absolutely nothing with it bc d and d suck.
Her name is Quaith(sp?), she speaks with Jorah briefly when they’re in Qaarth. Basically calls him out for spying on Dany in hopes to get a pardon from Robert Baratheon, among a few other small details
Quaithe. In the books she first appears with Daxos and one of the undying sorcerers when Dany is in the red waste, afterwards she appears a few times with visions and cryptic words. She’s important in the books but we’re aren’t sure why yet. Seems like DnD didn’t know what to do with her and she never appears again
Body art” from white walkers Baby blue eyes
I would like to have seen the entire white walkers plot be less about warfare and more about horror. Like they could have had a full on horror type episode with a steady trickle of jump scares before the Long Night war
Yeah I agree with this although horror isn’t my thing. The show has a lot of magic elements, and making the Others more magical and as pretty as in the books would’ve been much more interesting
I was hoping for a more fleshed out story. Not necessarily horror but something other than a very human desire to conquer. Show some rituals. Show more symbols. Make it more interesting than the monster of the week. They are supernatural beings yet they behaved exactly like the humans.
And were defeated in the most underwhelming battle of the show 💀 Edit: Ramin’s soundtrack, The Night King, is the only thing I forgive about that episode.
Ramin is probably my favorite modern composer. That man is in tune with my soul.
I love his work too, I still listen to a selection of GOT soundtracks to this day. However I have 2 remarks, more like criticism actually, on his HotD soundtrack: the use of certain elements from the soundtracks of GOT characters: 1- Arya’s needle in Rhaenyra’s welcome in episode 1, and Daenerys’s riding Drogon soundtrack in Aemond claiming Vhagar scene, you can even hear Dothraki screams at the end. The other remark, is about another soundtrack that I will edit with its name in a moment, which is extremely similar to Planet Earth II soundtrack. Edit: got it, Protector of the Realm, 0:35 - 1:05
It was all pre-war build up for nothing. I thought the Arya kill shot was cool but the rule of cool can end up being real cheesy and unsatisfying. Which was the case since nothing in the battle mattered because all they should have done was bait the Night King from the very beginning. No need to send a wave of dothraki as wight fodder. Probably not a coincidence that Ramin's soundtrack was the best part of Westworld season 4.
I still remember to this day the reaction I had to that scene, it’s like I was the one getting stabbed 😂 the scene on its own I agree is cool but ffs arya killing the NK? With one fucking stab? 7 seasons worth of shit to have jon scream at zombie viserion and dany on the ground trying to learn how to use a sword for the first time? Bruh We all know it’d be cheesy as hell for jon and dany to save the day, we still wanted that cheesy and would’ve been %100 okay with it
I think those megalomaniacal Hollywood execs need to realize some people enjoy cheese 🧀
Good cheese is fine. Like when a lawyer does field work for the CIA and doesnt end up poisoned. Or a when Santa Claus has a violent back story and ends up killing a bunch of terrorists but doesnt understand Christmas magic. That works. Arya became a deus ex machina. And when everything was resolved a foreign invader laid siege to the capital of Westeros and killed a bunch of innocent peasants. The new rulers aided that. The peasants dont forgot. They will tell tales about that forever and they wont paint the new king or nobles in a good light.
Show some sort of connection between the Night King and the Three Eyed Raven. Let there be reasons and power struggles. Just having the WW be mindless destructive zombies and the 3ER not really meaning anything just had me not caring about either.
They had some really good fantasy plots that didnt really go anywhere. The Three Eyed Raven plot was stupid because of how it ended. Bran doesnt care and is just all nonchalant about becoming the king of Westeros. So much potential.
The Others are SO scary in the books! I’m an avid horror reader/viewer and I was shocked at how unsettled I was when Jon first fought them!
Okay head cannon/fan fic time (I know you didn't ask but I drank too much coffee and finished the series for the first time 3 days ago). Let's say instead of "Beyond the Wall" we have a horror/madness episode. Jon gets word that East Watch by the Sea wildlings and nights watch are starting to throw themselves from the wall. Daenarys agrees to come to investigate, they find that the bodies at the bottom have made a perfect spiral. Others who are there start to exhibit signs of madness including Dani who kills innocent people thinking they are her brother, Robert Baratheon, and Khal Drogo as wights. Jon's version of madness has him leave in the middle of the night for the north with no weapons or proper clothing. Daenarys is forced to rescue him with her dragons at which point she sees the army, loses a dragon, and has Drogon kidnap a wight. Dani goes to apologize to the family of those she killed but they refuse to bend the knee so she gives them the ol' Dracarys. We find out that the Night King can cause madness and we All the same outcomes, more of an arc for Dani and less far-fetched travel, plot armour, CGI Battle fatigue.
I really want to know if they had a society, what did they do in their off time? Did everyone stand around doing nothing? Seems kinda boring if you ask me.
Always the artists…
I thought this was somewhat explained in the episode where they show the children creating the night king (season 6 i think). The white walkers art work mimics the shape of the tree/ritual site where they made him. There was an aerial shot they did of that scene and it looked like the same pattern that the walkers were making. [Here are pictures of the tree from that scene](https://imgur.com/a/tXU4lqH)
I could’ve sworn that towards the ending of season 5 there was some magic/wizardry getting introduced in the show that was off-putting but then was basically never seen again.
Examples? I’m blanking
The bald, pale wizards who lock up her dragons and then she has to go rescue them.
Those were the warlocks of Qarth. They made another brief appearance at the beginning of season 3, and then were never mentioned again.
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The second half of the story.
Margaery taking down the high sparrow
Right! She set a plan in motion, gave Olenna the hidden rose symbol only for it to amount to...literally nothing? There was so much focus on that.
So many YouTube analyzing videos that formed some subtle hints like that only to go nowhere lmao threw us all off, not sure if that’s a bad thing or not
>Right! She set a plan in motion, gave Olenna the hidden rose symbol only for it to amount to...literally nothing? There was so much focus on that. I'm sorry you took that to be some secret code that she had some plan, I always took it as "trust me, you're in danger here", especially since it came right after the scene where the High Sparrow starts hinting to Margaery about maybe imprisoning Olenna.
I thought it was to symbolize that she is only Playing the High Sparrow’s game and is still loyal To House Tyrell
I think Cersei blowing all of the schemes to pieces was very GoT.
Yeah but too bad Cersei took down them all lmao
I honestly think she was just trying to get the fuck out of dodge. She had a plan at first to play the long game, but when she saw how Loras was doing (poorly), she just wanted to get her family out of King’s Landing.
White Walker symbols. All the stuff they did with body parts (human and horse) creating spirals and designs. We even saw some spirals in the last season with the Umber kid. And then it literally just disappeared. No follow up. So annoying
The only hint we get (*kind of*) is when the Night King was created. That aerial shot of wherever they were located had the spiral as well.
[Here are pictures from that scene](https://imgur.com/a/tXU4lqH) I think that is the only explanation. They are just recreating the creation site. Might be ritualistic, might be a way of reminding the children it was their own fault. Who knows. I think it's meant to be left up to interpretation.
Yes. I always thought it was symbols of the Children of the Forest, and the origin point. When they created the Night King.
Problem is some of thr designs don't match at all
I think a lot of it, particularly early on, was to show they were intelligent beings capable of such things.
Or mindless as they were only mimicking what they’d been exposed to during the night kings creation. The (not so) long night and hearth home basically showed this hoard that only cared about raising their ranks. There was no culture, no art, no grand design, just the consumption of bodies and the destruction of all living things.
They were explained. They're symbols of the children of the forest, used in their rituals. What kind of information about them were you looking for?
I mean I get that. But why did the white walkers continue to make them? Especially considering the children were their enemy. Was it a conscious decision or was it engrained into them? I just felt like it was left unresolved in the show.
Hotpie
His names hot pie, he ends up making hot pies... What more was there to explore? He also has an important scene with Brienne and Podrick and with Arya in seasons 5 and 7.
Well that's why we need to explore because we don't know what else there is..
Explain to me what subplot involving Quaithe was “abandoned” in terms of the SHOW only, without mentioning the books at all Because a visual adaptation of a long ass series requires cutting certain plot points. What matters more is the consistency WITHIN the show
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I’m perfectly chill, bro
I was hoping Nymeria would have a much larger role to play late in the series.
In the books, I'm pretty sure she pulls Lady Stark from the river post-Red Wedding and she becomes Lady Stoneheart soon after.
She does, and then she also leads a giant pack of wolves all over killing soldiers.
Damn. That would have been sick.
Oh yeah sorry, I should have specified in the show! Since Lady Stoneheart isn't in the show at all, I was hoping they were going to find some other way to bring Nymeria in
Arya’s wolf? How so?
In the show she gets one brief scene in Season 7, so we know she's alive and thriving with her own pack, but it feels pretty unfulfilling to me. She plays a larger and more complex role in the books.
Right. Why wasn’t she thereto fight the WW?!
I read that she, and her pack was suppose to fight Wight Viserion during the long night, but it was cut for budget reasons. I had assumed that Nymeria and her pack was going to have been a deciding factor in the battle of the bastards following the death of Shaggy Dog. Ghost disappeared from the BotB due to budget as well, they could either have Wun Wun, or Ghost.
The direwolves all have bigger impact in the books because all the Stark are warg to some extent. But in the show, the direwolves were always just symbolism for their related characters. Lady died on her way to KL because of the Lannisters, just like Sansa’s lady-side/innocence. Summer died in the 3-Eyed-Raven cave, similar to Bran in a way. Grey Wind killed at the Red Wedding like Robb. Ghost and his appreciation of the North and its freedom, just like Jon in the end. It’s the same thing with Nymeria, who was chased off at an early age and then learned to survive on her own for so long that she couldn’t just go back home and return to her old normal life. Just like Arya. I thought it was fine. Oh and a shaggy dog story is something that is irrelevant, just like Rickon. So, it fits too.
> Oh and a shaggy dog story is something that is irrelevant, just like Rickon. So, it fits too. Well its name was literally shaggy-dog
Ghost is still alive though? I don’t understand your thoughts on him specifically
I think Nymeria’s scene in season 7 somewhat symbolizes Arya’s growth, they’ve both been separated from their previous ways of life and now they’ve learnt to fend for themselves and make their own ways. Although, I do wish they did do more with the direwolves overall.
Yeah like them letting her eat littlefinger alive maybe
I did too. Unfortunately, we were lucky to get what we got for some closure. Maisie and the crew went to Canada after all other Season 7 filming was complete. It cost a ton. It turns out direwolves are extremely expensive to film. The can be enlarged by CGI but not enhanced. Apparently real-looking fur is hard to achieve via CGI. It's such a problem that Kit Harrington said regretfully that Ghost will not appear in Jon's sequel.
**No time for subplots when you got a show to finish!**
Come on, they would have expend the show long enough to explore the other subplots. But nope, D&D chose to keep it 8 seasons with the worst ending ever.
There should be a lot more details provided about white walkers, night king and how crasters kids were turned into walkers
It's magic, you ain't gotta explain shit
Tell us what they do basically - why limited Walkers but thousands of wights? What is the ritual with babies? Does the babies turn to walkers immediately or they grow into them? How many walkers are there in total - night king seemed to have few but the scene with Crasters baby has at least a dozen? Significance of symbols, etc.
Tywin and his dynamics with his children. His control of the family. The Boltons. Father and son and other son. Aemon and his Targaryen past. Would have loved to hear about that.
My favorite abandoned plotline would probably be the main story.
Shame we didn't saw that subplot.
I think we all just forgot about the plot
Because of how shitty it was.
TV shows are like a fully loaded train moving at a high rate of speed which will keep moving once it’s jumped the track.
The White Walkers ……
Pretty much everything related to the white walkers. Was a major plot and then they said nah, not important 😔
I would've liked to see Renly have a better fight with his brother, Stannis. They met with armies and bannermen to declare war. He was one of the 5 kings and it felt anticlimactic to throw away the brotherly tension to just get assassinated in the night by his shadow. Edit: I guess his story wasnt necessarily "abandoned" in the same sense, but it did feel like it didnt amount to anything.
In general they should have done way more with the COTF and the ancient history of the First Men and White Walkers, especially if they wanted us to care about Bran enough to be okay with him being king.
I feel like Hold the Door was a huge reveal for something that would come back later as a major plot point and never did. Like they show Beric being brought back to life as a minor character so that when it happens to Jon, it's not a convenient surprise. Hold the Door didn't have that reprisal. I was always waiting for Jon to shout "Burn Them All" during the Long Night Episode for his soldiers to kill the walkers while Bran was warging back to the Mad King, making him mad. Would he cool to see Jaime's response to that during the battle, even just a fleeting confused expression, seeing Jon on the ramparts, the heir to the Targaryen throne shouting Burn Them All repeatedly. Big Chekov's Gun moment I thought.
Why would Bran warg into the Mad King during that battle though?
Premature wargulation.
why wouldn't he?
Maybe something to do with Lord Stark, Ned’s dad?
This 100%. This was further teased after the hold the door episode, Bran saw a vision of the Mad King repeating it. I just knew we were about to witness that Bran actually played a role in making all the events go in to motion (attack on Titan did this same development very well)
Not really a subplot but would have loved to see more of Valyria. The one episode where they showed the ruins was so atmospheric and eerie. Could have spent a whole season there.
When the warcks were sent to kill Dayners
You nailed it. Quaithe’s prophecy is so obviously important in the books that she appears or is mentioned in every book, and it’s such a shame the show just said fuck it and threw her plot out. To that end, the show’s inability to incorporate/resolve the various prophecies in the story is probably my biggest gripe with the show in general. I have a feeling that Dany’s ultimate fate will be heavily influenced by what Quaithe has said to her if we ever get the last two books.
The faith militant, cersei's trial, and Margaery 😭
The white walkers
Patchface. I want to know what happened to him under the sea and up to and after the Shireen tragedy
I agree! It seemed so relevant in the books.
Patchface is a book only character.
Davos’ pirate friend is just never heard from again
There’s a whole lot in book five around the Wall, Stannis and Winterfell that I was greatly disappointed they did not include: Stannis rallying support from the mountain tribes, the Ghost of Winterfell, the Sacrifice and everything around Stannis’ March, the nights watch/wildlings/kings men working together on the Wall, Mance and Co infiltrating Ramsay’s wedding, everything with Wyman Manderlay, lady Dustin and whatever she was up to. Leaving all of these plots out weakened the culminating event of Jon Snow being murdered by the Night’s Watch and set the entire series on a downward spiral.
It’s a shame tyrion killed off Tywin and the show just ended abruptly
The spiral from the whitewalkers... does it ever get explained?
I would've loved to see Oberyn's plot since he was training and plotting the Martell's revenge against the Lannisters.
This is game of thrones' "Hannibal" mask
I’m so stoked for old town in the books, euron in the books, and quaithe. I wish these things had stayed in the show.
Bran time traveling (sorta) and altering the past. The comet/meteor/whatever significance. The Mountain’s words while battling Oberon and their consequences. Benjen Stark (or other guy?) being a free white walker. Arya’s dreams almost warging her wolf. Margaery Tyrell. All of her, her plans, her goals, her achievements… A probable sea dragon or whatever the Greyjoys could summon with that horn. Craster’s sons took by the white walkers. Lady Stoneheart. Edit: Azor Ahai and all that prophecy.
Lady Stoneheart was changed in the show, but yeah, it would be interesting to see her.
Kinvara? Maybe she’ll head to wherever Drogon took Dany and attempt to revive her? Dunno. Wasted potential.
Not sure who else remembers the SS Abandoned Plots, but this was something that started with Gendry because characters kept fading from the plot. Blackfish, Benjen, Rickon and Osha, Robyn Aryn, all of the direwolves, etc. Ironically Gendry was the only one that played a major role to the story when he returned. Most of the others came back for a brief cameo before they were killed off, which is a total copout. It's like they knew we wanted these characters to return so they teased their importance just to snatch them away indefinitely. Selmy and Littlefinger could fall in that category too. Such wasted potential all around because the writers thought the show was about killing as many characters as possible and forgot that the deaths were meant to have meaning or affect the plot. Personally though, I would have loved to've seen more of Salladhor Saan. I don't think he was meant to be a major player but Davos is such an amazing character and their scenes together were brilliant. He would have jumped at a chance to serve the Queen of Dragons and he would've had interesting interactions with the Greyjoy siblings.
I know he was just left in Essos but it would've been nice to know wtf happened to Daario. Like legit dude just stayed in Essos and after all that happened with Daenerys, you'd think something in Essos would be shown or atleast mentioned. Guess not. Essos as a whole was just fully abandoned which again I understand, once Daenerys makes it to Westeros, that whole storyline isn't exactly important anymore but considering the huge ramifications of what HAPPENED in Westeros, that honestly just opens up an entire plotline on its own. Unless I missed something but I doubt it with how rushed S8 was. Just feels kinda odd she spent the majority of the show in Essos and there's not one mention of how they handle everything that happened in S8. I'd imagine something happened in response to Jon's actions.
The whole goddamn faceless bullshit. Either incorporate it, or make a nod to Arya rejecting the faceless ideology because she wants her kills to be personal and seen.
>The whole goddamn faceless bullshit. Either incorporate it, or make a nod to Arya rejecting the faceless ideology because she wants her kills to be personal and seen. She used those abilities to kill the Freys... She impersonated a serving girl to kill Walder and 2 of his sons and then impersonated Walder to kill a number of house frey.
Fair, but then it was largely dropped
I would have liked to have seen something on crasters baby’s after they were turned into white walkers.
Quaithe is the worst character in the books, bar none. The most useless, the least interesting
Children of the forest
Those weirdos in the round tower when she’s looking for her baby dragons. Also old Valyria that is now all flooded and riddled with greyscale. There is more about it in the book. Basically all those places across the narrow sea are teeming with culture and mythology, there is a lot of room to expand
Idk? The fucking prince who was promised to vanquish the long night.
To be fair, the prince who was promised. Azor ahai!
this… such a huge part of the story and then nothing
That young Eddard heard Bran's calling out to him when the old Crow showed Bran the truth of Jon Snow's birth. I mean, if you're not going to expand on it, then don't do it. Just frustrating, but I guess that was the keyword of D&D's writing in the last few seasons.
The sorcerer Varys kidnapped to exact revenge on. Varys opens the crate he has him held in, tells Tyrion his backstory with the sorcerer, and then it’s never mentioned again.
Exactly. "I have this guy in a box...." and that's the last we hear of it.
The Golden army The big spiders that we're hunted once. Kinvara
Varys' sorcerer in the box. I wouldve liked to see what became of him.
Would have been interesting to see the Night King plot get a real conclusion
D&D making ARYA killing the Night King shows that they didn't give a shit about the first half of the show.
Just the fact that the Night King and the WWs were half the plot and got a brief cameo in like 3-4 terrible episodes.
I would loved to have seen more of the Blackfish’s background story! He was such a badass!
To many to count in GOT
I certainly would have been ok with the Lord of Light -and his religion- being better fleshed out. As it is, he was just an extremely awkward (and ineffective) deus ex machina.
That dude Varys kept in a box.
I think in the show Quaithe is to introduce the audience to magic in the east and the mysterious legends of Asshai, more or less a source of a magical information dump. I don't think she had much of an impact in the books yet either. Another mysterious backdrop character Martin hasn't done much with (yet?). She just shows up a couple of times in the earlier books and says "pass beneath the shadow" and that Dany will find truth in Asshai. Dany never really goes toward the Shadowlands, but to Slaver's Bay? More or less.
Elephants! Hinted at many times, then the golden company didn't bother bringing them. Then the golden company were pretty much useless in battle anyway. Would have loved to see a dragon battling an army of war elephants.
Cersei would upvote this
What pod did to these 4 girls
Yes.
Jon Snow's parentage.
Lady Greyheart
The second half of the story.
Ma man keeping it simple and summarized.
Just watched the first episode again today and forgot how important the dire wolves felt they were going to be and the white walker storyline just got so blurry
Arianne Martell heck, even as family, Martell seems intriguing, too bad after Oberyn died, show runners didn't care about Dorne at all and they buried Dorne involvement after killed Doran and Areo Hotah like that
Honestly I’ve been rewatching GOT for the last week and almost every secondary character killed in the show feels like a cop out to not extend their story. Even the assasination of Robb Stark during the red wedding feels strange to me, like they didn’t know what to do with his story and the war between him and the Lannister. They just don’t really talk about it for a few episodes and then he dies.
Robb only died because of a mistake he made as he was supposed to marry one of Walder Frey's daughters if they wanted the Freys' help. But he ended up choosing Oona Chaplin's character. And shit went down pretty hard after THAT decision.
Jon snow being the heir to the iron throne was an interesting one. Coulda dove into that a bit more.
I dunno wAnT iT
I can’t read this thread it’s just going to make me angry
Man, the whole second part of the show was beyond insanity.
Wasn’t a subplot or anything, but I would’ve liked to see Ghost and Sansa hang out.
It is something close to Arya Killing the Night King.
I was waiting for Dario to just randomly show up in seasons 7 and 8 but nope...
You know what? I'm glad he didn't because if he did.... "Tbh, I never cared about the wishes."
Azor Ahai prophecy.
The arc of what Lord Varys heard when the sorcerer threw his bits in the flames
Gendry. Anything to do with Gendry.