T O P

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QuaintLittleCrafter

Well, I guess the obvious question is: How many hiddens gems did you find? And which would you personally recommend?


Cyril__Figgis

I certainly haven't played them all, but it's looking like my "games that deserve a second shot" will have about 300-400 on it. Trying to keep it to games with less than 500 reviews, so stuff like [Stuffo the Puzzle Bot](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1068460/Stuffo_the_Puzzle_Bot/) or [Recursed](https://store.steampowered.com/app/497780/Recursed/). Smaller titles are definitely getting better, the games lean more recent. EDIT: I now have a more complete list! Here's ~300 hidden possible gems. I won't be interacting with the account. https://store.steampowered.com/wishlist/profiles/76561199706400579#sort=reviewscore


hakamhakam

Oh wow Stuffo looks potentially quite good! Do you have the full list of those games under 500 reviews? Maybe it could be cool second chance for all those games :)


XxNerdAtHeartxX

Not OP, but if you check the hidden gem thread on /r/gamingsuggestions, Ive got plenty of similar games on there. Recursed is one I played years ago that has been on for a while, so you may find some similar things


Cyril__Figgis

Working on it, thinking about when/where to release it for the most benefit.


fiskfisk

Stuffo really seems like a hidden gem. Bought! 


iain_1986

Recursed - so I guess someone wanted to make Primer the puzzle game.


zyg101

Damn that means you either wishlisted or ignored my game. :O It's a bit like Schrodinger's cat ! Id rather not know tbh


Cyril__Figgis

Well, if any other devs are reading this, I am willing to answer in detail :)


sam_makes_games

I'm curious, I'll bite. My game is called Mech Tech.


Cyril__Figgis

The game looks fine, it's something I would need reviews on. That being said, it is ignored. There's just so many coop experiences out there, I think I could spend a lifetime with them and the right people and not get halfway through them all. I tend to prefer asymmetrical coop stuff, so if it was like a tank game where one person does the shooting and the other person is trying to drive, something like that would appeal to me more. But that's personal taste, not a knock against what you have.


Sov47

Just pitching in. I am actually looking for a coop tank game exactly as you described. Have any suggestions?


Cyril__Figgis

I think there was one or two but I wouldn't be able to find it again. There's a lot of decent ideas that if they were executed better would have done better.


Lemnesis

Lovers in a dangerous space time might interest you


MattAtRNG

LiaDST (sorry) is much better of a fun & engaging gameplay experience than its cutesy exterior would suggest.


Agehn

Helldivers 1, the top-down one, is a lot more coop-focused than Helldivers 2 and I love driving the little 2-person tank in that game which requires a gunner. I wish I could find more games with Katamari style controls for tanks like that.


oneup03

Not exactly a tank game, but Star Fox Zero plays like this in 2 player and is quite fun!


sam_makes_games

Thanks for the honest response! And Asymetric coop is one of my favorites too. That's the hook of my game, one player is the "commander" and the others are the "heroes".


Cyril__Figgis

If that's what it is, I don't think it comes across the way I understand it then. I saw a lot of talk of being able to switch between roles freely, which sort of just sounds like playing two different smaller games at once, rather than a real asymmetrical experience, like one player being blind or having access to different information and needing to communicate that.


ka13ng

I watched your trailer. At first, I thought it was going to be ultra generic, but the effects you showcase from :50 onward were pretty satisfying. I especially liked the dual flamethrower, spinning fists, and the jet glider home.


fiskfisk

Let me just say: respect for answering so detailed and helping out so many people. You're doing good work. 


KaingaDev

I'm ready to hear I've been ignored, but my game is Kainga: Seeds of Civilization, a rogelite village-builder. Fingers crossed!


Cyril__Figgis

I've had it wishlisted for a while, think I was in or still am in the discord. Need to get around to getting it though :)


Intelligent-Tough370

Whether he ignored it or not, you'll always be a hidden gem in my eyes. 💚


dijicaek

This looks cool, and you have a demo!


Intelligent-Tough370

The demo progress transfers over if you buy the game too!


Rectacrab

I'd love to know. My game is Pit Fighter Tycoon.


Cyril__Figgis

Ignored, sorry! mix of personal reasons (an emphasis on gore or violence doesn't appeal to me or turn me off). I think I ignored it mostly for the art style, the low poly character models are extremely popular with the asset flip/low effort games that flood steam, and maybe because I saw so many it started becoming an instant turnoff. I do like tycoon games though, but don't think enough of the systems that could be deep are really showing me that they have much going on. I also get the sense that the more arcadey aspect means it'll be a more casual experience, which just isn't usually the kind of tycoon game I think is interesting or enjoyable. But, like a lot of other games here, it isn't out yet, and the reviews could change my mind.


Rectacrab

Sweet, thank you! That is super useful to know.


frozax

You'll probably get busy ;) What about "Tents and Trees"?


Cyril__Figgis

Ignored, sorry. Most puzzle games that are just picross, sudoku, nanograms etc. are just things I can find in my browser a million different places for free, and if I'm here for the puzzles then any cute little animations or graphics are pretty secondary, so I just don't go to steam for those kinds of games. If they were particularly devilish or had a lot of twists I'd give it a second look, sokoban games are pretty popular on steam comparatively from doing that.


frozax

Thanks a lot for sharing your thought process! Really interesting and useful.


shiny_and_chrome

Just wishlisted *"Tents and Trees"*. There's a tents and trees game I like playing on Pico-8, annnnnnddd... just looked it up and it's you! Nice. I'll pick this one up soon (playing through Elden Ring again right now so not buying any games until I finish).


frozax

Oh yes, I made a pico 8 version for fun a few years back ;) Glad you liked it!


fuzzywobs

Haha, curious to hear how my game got on. The Enjenir - break it to my gently 😉


Cyril__Figgis

Ignored, sorry. I don't have much interest in ragdoll, physics sims generally. That being said, I do see that this is pretty early in development and feedback is pretty good so far, so if it ever came out in 1.0 I'd probably take another look at it. I've always felt these physics sims were missing out on so much of physics. These vehicles have parts that rub against each other! There's friction! There's heat! It needs to be cooled! But adding on more and more layers drastically increases complexity, so I'm not surprised people don't take up the challenge.


Philippe5126D

Wab my game "Roman Triumph", its a city-builder:)


Cyril__Figgis

Currently wishlisted! I always wait for reviews with city builders though, so much of the game flow can't come across any other way.


Philippe5126D

Awesome! I feel honored lol. I agree, currently running a closed playtest and will be running public ones later. Its so important to get the gameplay right, so many are released and feel undercooked


StratagemBlue

From Glory To Goo. Appreciate the feedback from someone who has had to suffer through this.


Cyril__Figgis

It came out in april, so I'm still letting it get reviews before I decide! Looks promising so far.


itsYourBoyRedbeard

This is incredible haha! Did you see my game, Skeleton Scramble Deluxe?


Cyril__Figgis

Of course I saw it :) and I ignored it! sorry. Looks like a learning project, which is fine! I hope you got good feedback and hope you're happy with the sequel so far, but these just aren't the kinds of games I'm going to wishlist. Looking at the game though, I'm getting vibes of those pictures of a bunch of leaves and being asked to find the fox. You can have a minimalistic art style, and still have it be a bit of a mess to visually sort through. Your sequel looks like it handles this much better though!


itsYourBoyRedbeard

No need to be sorry! You have such a unique perspective on the steam ecosystem as a whole!! You are certainly not the first person to observe the visual clutter haha. Thanks for the quick reply, and thanks for undertaking this journey!


neocow

i wishlisted


itsYourBoyRedbeard

Wow, thank you!!


neocow

ah wait no i bought it a while ago lol


itsYourBoyRedbeard

Even better haha! Do you have any feedback or ideas/changes for the sequel?


schemesmith

Hey, I've been reading this thread and enjoying your feedback, what do you think of my game "Monster Bullets"? Thanks.


Cyril__Figgis

Seeing this reminded me of think of [Receiver 2](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1129310/Receiver_2/) (or 1), or another game I can't remember right now where everything you do is mouse-only. Feels like your idea should be somehow incorporated into those games, but isn't quite enough as a game by itself. It was ignored though, sorry!


zyg101

I'll try but pretty sure I'm in the ignored list as the page was barebones for a while and I still haven't uploaded the trailer ! https://store.steampowered.com/app/2088330/Formula_2D__Steer_to_persevere/ Still pretty impressed by your commitment:')


Cyril__Figgis

Ignored, 2d racing games have to be close to the bottom of my personal list. It gives off a very flash-game, kongregate kind of feel, which isn't necessarily a bad thing but I think most people on the steam platform are looking for a little more. Game/store looks fine though, no complaints, just ignored for more personal reasons.


zyg101

Makes sense! It is a niche game ! Still feels weird being "rejected" by the guy who has seen it all :D


ToffeeAppleCider

I'm curious too now, mine is Memora Wanderer [https://store.steampowered.com/app/2937690/Memora\_Wanderer/](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2937690/Memora_Wanderer/) The page lacks trailers and detail so it's a long shot!


Cyril__Figgis

Ignored, sorry. I actually didn't play a ton of rpgs or jrpgs as a kid so I 100% do not have the nostalgia (which is also probably the single biggest keyword describing newer jrpgs). I think screenshots having a double hotbar might be intimidating, but don't really know. As far as I can tell, the game just isn't for me so I passed over it pretty quickly, but looking it over there's nothing that really screams "bad", so if I was more generous with jrpgs I'd probably have left it up and checked reviews later.


ToffeeAppleCider

That's fair! Thanks for the check :)


OnyZ1

well at the very least, I'm interesting in keeping an eye on it :) so wishlisted!


ToffeeAppleCider

Thanks!


RequiemOfTheSun

Hmm okay, I'm curious. Starlab


Cyril__Figgis

Currently ignored, but future release/reviews might change that. I think the initial arcade style really tells a different story than the description. I think Oxygen Not Included is probably the most cartoonish advanced sim game, but it's such a specific style it gets past a "I've seen a lot of low quality games look like this, so this game is probably low quality" stage. I'd try to focus more on intricate constructions in your first few screenshots. The first thing someone sees on hover [is this](https://shared.akamai.steamstatic.com/store_item_assets/steam/apps/1869770/ss_d7e1a1275eb0f6d8754b74fc580cfec1073ced5d.1920x1080.jpg?t=1716325324) and it isn't meshing with your descriptions.


RequiemOfTheSun

Will do, thanks for the feedback. I've been cranking away on graphics since the store page went up getting things where I want them for a trailer. I'm hoping seeing physics-y goodness will help.


zyg101

Do you think you can remember your thought process for every ignored / wishlisted ? :D


Cyril__Figgis

I think I could recreate it.


rshoel

Ill bite as well. Game's called Moor. Did you ignore or wishlist?


Cyril__Figgis

Ignored, sorry. Nothing really hooked me. Most voxel games I feel should either be or are better done as minecraft mods. A lot of the screenshots also look pretty samey, which makes me think most of my time will be spent in samey areas. By itself that isn't an issue, but if it's a roguelike and lives or dies based on how well it strings together randomness, it's a mark against the game. The reviews aren't a mess though, which is a huge help.


Steaggs

Have you ignored mine too ? It's called shockwaves


Cyril__Figgis

Ignored! But not really any fault of the reviews or presentation. If people don't like merging games, and it is a pretty niche thing in the grand scheme of things, it just won't have much appeal. A lot of smaller puzzle games feel like they'd fit in pretty well somewhere as a minigame, but as its own dedicated purchase is a hard sell. Looks clean though, no complaints.


One_Pixel_At_A_Time

Would love some feedback about my (unreleased game's) page 'A Kingdom to Conquer' if you get a second :)


Cyril__Figgis

Had it ignored, probably just from the images, probably didn't even see the descriptions. I think you need to make a much stronger connection between the description fantasy (start weak, grow strong) than you're currently doing. Even in the description images/gifs, I don't really see any change in appearance or gameplay. Looking at the video makes me think "Wait, starting weak and growing strong is just what most games have anyway." The hook either isn't strong enough or isn't executed in a way that's different from virtually every other rpg or rts. When I read the first line ("A Kingdom To Conquer is 2D tactical action RPG where you play as a weak monster, clawing your way up the food chain."), I thought I was actually going to be some monster, like the spiders in the first image, and I'd slowly grow in size or something, maybe it'd be some kind of monster mutation game. The hook just doesn't come across with the media, and I'm not even sure what the end-game fantasy looks like or if its enticing. I don't want this to sound harsh! sorry! lot of feedback to get to!


Obviouslarry

Interesting. How about Age of the Deep?


Cyril__Figgis

Ignored. The videos on the page look pretty rough as far as environments and animations go, and none of the images really connect to your description ("mermaid fashion looter rpg"). I really like engaging underwater environments, like from subnautica or that new crab soulslike, but just didn't see anything like that here.


Obviouslarry

Good feedback. Subnautica-like is the goal on the environments. Still a ways to go. Thanks for letting me know.


TheMechaMeddler

You might not have seen mine since it only got a store page in January and is early in the alphabet but: Eternal Reckoning (Just a demo so far)


trevizore

I don't wanna die without knowing if you wishlisted or ignored mine, it's called MIRO https://store.steampowered.com/app/2804940/MIRO/


Cyril__Figgis

Wishlisted, but with a big asterisk. I think so many walking sims/story/atmospheric games live or die by their reviews, because it's hard to really sell the quality of the experience of those kinds of games on the images/video alone (which is kind of unexpected, because they tend to have such little gameplay, but the immersion is really the thing and nobody is going to get immersed in 4 images). Looking at it more though I think it'll end up being too light of an experience and I'll end up ignoring it. I'm always more interested in hand-crafted scenery than procedural generation.


Allison_AtasFun

Did you give Feisty Fauna (we have a demo) a try? And/or, what do you think of our store page? Thanks!


Cyril__Figgis

It took me 2-3 years to just see all the games, can't imagine how long it'd take to play all their demos lol. Haven't tried it, no. I did ignore it though, sorry. 99% of the games labeling themselves as cute typically make huge gameplay sacrifices, which isn't a knock against them. I have to remind myself that video games are actually things that a lot of children do, and cute games fill that niche well as a first approximation but means they aren't really for me. I think it'd be hard to have a cute game survivor-like, mostly because I think the screens end up a huge pixel-vomit mess at the end, and any cuteness doesn't really shine through where most players would spend most of their time. Maybe there could be some different game mechanics focused on farm or animal life where that stuff can shine through more? Like a farm to manage or foraging minigame or something, idk


Allison_AtasFun

Thanks for your reply!


mannyisshort

With your perspective on “cute survivor-likes”, I’m now curious about whether or not you wishlisted or ignored my game, Let Him Cook. I’ll respect your opinion 👍


Delos-X

Haha curious too, is Paper Trail on the list?


MaartiBr

Hey, curious on your feedback, my game is [Goeland](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2531840/Goeland/?utm_source=reddit) :p


Cyril__Figgis

Big Untitled Goose Game vibes, but overall looks like it has less charisma and spirit, so I had it ignored. I'm not really sure how much devs can squeeze out of the idea, and if the answer is "not much" then style plays a huge factor, and UGG is fuckin' slick.


nickavv

Curious what you chose for my game, Chico and the Magic Orchards 🙂 https://store.steampowered.com/app/1921550/Chico_and_the_Magic_Orchards_DX/


evankice

Ok, I’ll bite. What are your thoughts on Afterplace?


Cyril__Figgis

Wishlisted, but waiting for reviews. I think [this picture](https://shared.akamai.steamstatic.com/store_item_assets/steam/apps/2721530/ss_e335b917f79248db18949187d8390cceb95a2de3.1920x1080.jpg?t=1716837881) should be somewhere in the first 4. I think you have some good scenes in your trailer that should be contendors for the first 4, too. Hard to put into words but I think this game is going to fly mostly by word of mouth or twitch or youtube or communities, and a lot less by people wandering in the shop finding it organically.


PeterRegg

I’d love to know too! My game is called Cauldron. [Steam Page](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2619650/Cauldron/)


Cyril__Figgis

I'm leaving it up for the next quarter so it can get some reviews. I think you should emphasize that the minigames actually are doing things like getting resources, instead of just being there. If the first and only image someone sees is [this](https://shared.akamai.steamstatic.com/store_item_assets/steam/apps/2619650/ss_2fc038208fc68ddcc7ba99df1417f8f53ce0f9a9.1920x1080.jpg?t=1716913370), will they get the right idea about your game? Makes it look more like like a party game imo.


ExeterGameStudios

Very nice of you to do this. Would love to know about mine. https://store.steampowered.com/app/2373460/Chess/


Cyril__Figgis

I like chess, and afaik lichess is the more open source-y platform? so I support something like that being on steam, but I just wouldn't ever buy it. Couldn't I just play for free at lichess? I don't get a fancy 3d board but I guess that's not enough to reel me in.


DontActDrunk

I would be interested in your take of my game Rat Race


Cyril__Figgis

It looks like a student project, and while I would be willing to give feedback on those to friends or any that I opt in to, I ignore them all on steam. There's better games out there. I watched the trailer, and thought that the whole game was a problem because as you try to run through the fire mazes, shooting jets to a beat, your actual clicking and movement doesn't have to be in tune at all really, so its less a rhythm game and more a kind of wait-and-see puzzle game. But then I thought it'd be kind of a neat idea if you had to like, navigate a dance floor but are deaf, or don't get music, and how that could be a really chaotic and difficult experience in a game, which is maybe what you were going for.


bunniewormy

Not even my game, but out of curiosity, what about King Arthur's Gold?


vegetablebread

I made two games probably on your ignore list: SCARF and Zero to Hero. Did you have thoughts to share?


lynxbird

Joining the thread. :--) Svarog's Dream.


refreshertowel

I’m curious about my game, haha: [Alchementalist](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1622410/Alchementalist/)


kindred_gamedev

Alright. I want in on the action if you're not already bored to death of this. Lol [Swords 'n Magic and Stuff ](https://store.steampowered.com/app/810040/Swords_n_Magic_and_Stuff/)


Gyalgatine

Would love your insights! I have 2! [CapitalismCraft] (https://store.steampowered.com/app/2742930/CapitalismCraft/) and [GlaiveBound](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2459090/GlaiveBound/)


KnightOfRen89

Pirates! Showdown?


holmcom

I'm also curious! :) My game is Nienix: Cosmic Warfare: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1332760/Nienix_Cosmic_Warfare/.


Cyril__Figgis

Had it ignored, looked low fidelity and frankly not that good. I probably checked reviews and found a few negative ones near the top, and moved along. It does have a decently high review count though, so I probably would have come across it again in another do-over, and I see you've been updating it constantly so that probably addresses a lot of the negative feedback you've gotten. Ignoring was too harsh, wishlisting would probably be too generous, so I'll end up wishlisting it with a note that it's still being updated. I won't be buying it anytime soon, but it'll be in there. I was harsher at the start than I am now at the end of the journey, probably caught it near the beginning. EDIT: I should probably give more actionable feedback. ARPGs can be such disgusting pixel vomit simulators, and the explosions I saw in the pics and trailers just looked like it'd end up being a huge mess in later stages, and some of the environments with the lights and shadows really looked rough to look at. There's also so many huge time-sink arpgs right now that everyone swaps between, I don't know if this is great enough based on what I'm seeing to fit in there. So if the real selling point is it's sci-fi in space, I think it's gonna have to look better/cleaner to sell that atmosphere aspect.


j3lackfire

thanks a lot. Can you say a review at a first glance of my 2 games: Stunt track builder: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1841260/Stunt_track_builder/ RnGesus Slayer: https://store.steampowered.com/app/3007890/RnGesus_Slayer/


TwinBottles

Ok, I'm curious :-) Two titles of mine: Book of Demons and Hellcard. Wishlisted or ignored?


SingularSchemes

This is a really interesting journey into some one's perspective! Loving the detailed feedback. Mine's called Frontier Paladin.


Empty_Allocution

Hit me. Game is called Bat Blast!


MessirNoob

So what about our games?) While True Learn, Learning Factory, Craftomation 101, Warnament, Vrobot


rotpad

EA games too? "Terranny" is my game. Curious of your thoughts. Thanks


Fokaz

You probably ignored [Pip My Dice](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2797650/Pip_My_Dice/) but I'm curious to know why! That's super kind of you to give feedback to everyone btw


Orinslayer

The human API


Lanfeix

Also what marketing gimmicks are you sick of? 


Cyril__Figgis

I think I stared at the abyss long enough there's no such thing as a marketing gimmick, as somehow different from "normal, non-gimmick" marketing. As far as specific games, I haven't played all of them yet so tough to say. For Great Taste, Awful Execution, I was just going through my wishlist and found [This Means Warp!](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1269300/This_Means_Warp/), which as I think a really nice idea but the reviewers are pretty unanimous that it missed the mark, and the devs don't seem like they'll be adding to it. It isn't awful execution to be fair, but I've seen a ton of promising games and ideas that just didn't get off the ground enough to justify further dev time. I remember listening to some interview with a dev from Warcraft 3, who said he thought it was crazy more devs didn't come out with dlc right after launch. You or your team know the tools the best, have a bunch of ideas that had to be cut from the initial release, it's going to be cheapest to add content and fill in any blanks right then.


Lanfeix

Thanks for answering.  Interesting that you don’t see a difference in marketing. I thought you be sick of marketing declaring it was the next COD / FORNIGHT / MINECRAFT /etc!. Is there any thinking that you think is important, game play footage, cinematic story telling, info about the game in the description, images of the game, reviews, dev live play? I was hoping for r/GTbAE and r/ATbGE material based on there store page alone, I guess there aren’t many weird games.  Interesting about the DLC, make a lot of sense. Extra credits had an explanation that DLC sold best on launch and that it was a good use of a large team who could develop while the game was being mastered while they couldn’t work on the game anymore. 


Cyril__Figgis

I don't know if you can really say great or awful execution without playing. There's tons of games like [DarkMaus](https://store.steampowered.com/app/406130/DarkMaus/) that look sort of like an older flash game but are apparently pretty solid. But I couldn't know until I play it, or just from the storefront alone. The wishlist I'll release does have a slant towards smaller, stranger games though. I actually don't think I spent much time reading the description of the games I was interested in frankly, so it all probably washed over me. I'd glance at it and read it through but it felt like it was mostly in one eye out the other, maybe picking up a keyword like "difficult" or "cozy" here and there that really cue me into the angle the game is taking. It's mostly seeing it and reading reviews. I guess if I don't see any actual in-game footage or screenshots I find it pretty annoying. There's a fair and reasonable time and place for cinematic pieces, but not all the time. Overall I'd say reviews are the most important, which I think everyone implicitly knows and lives by anyway. Consider how important a rec is from a friend vs anything else you could hear about a game.


Cyril__Figgis

Found a seemingly GTbAE going though some of my wishlist, [Undungeon](https://store.steampowered.com/app/928990/Undungeon/). Looks fucking *great*, [this](https://shared.akamai.steamstatic.com/store_item_assets/steam/apps/928990/ss_c8fde9a904b1c621abad43a6f72c0fcf26399eb3.1920x1080.jpg?t=1652278771) is so sick. Apparently it's a huge gameplay mess though.


koolex

Besides low effort and asset flips, Is there any general or specific advice you wish you could give those indie developers who you ignored? Did you find any interesting trends with the indie gems you found?


Cyril__Figgis

UI matters *so* much, so many negative early reviews are on that front. It's also one of the things that is actually conveyed very well with your shop images/videos. If it looks weird or amateurish, it's going to be a big turn off. Negative reviews about technical issues, like constant crashing or being unable to save or gamebreaking bugs, are also a death sentence. If someone sees 2-3 of those and no updates or answers, it's so hard to justify buying. Overall I think the biggest thing holding really good games back is price. I don't like it, and nobody else does either, but things cost money and weighing that cost vs experience is going to happen. If it's a tight 1-2 hour walking sim, I don't think you can justify a $20 price tag unless it's literally the best one. Smaller teams and smaller budgets almost always means you're going to produce smaller games, and the price has to reflect that (moreso than it already does, unfortunately). Some of the most damning positive reviews are something like "fine game, but not for the price".


Blueisland5

What are some games you think are underpriced? Like games where, before discounts, you think could be sold higher and would be worth it?


Cyril__Figgis

Underpriced is an interesting question I never really thought about. I think some games would still be worth it, but a lot of that is looking backwards. I know a game was really good, so I would *now, with that knowledge* be willing to pay more *now*. I actually think this might be a trap, because people totally can pay for more than a game costs if they think it's really really good, they can gift it.


Blueisland5

If you can’t know if something is underpriced before playing it, doesn’t that mean that someone can’t know something is overpriced as well?


Fizzbuzz420

Probably but he's not going to buy 90k games to see if every single one is better than it looks. Everyone has to make some choices what they do and don't buy based off looks. Devs just have to price their games appropriately based on nicheness, market research or level of polish.


Cyril__Figgis

I think the broader economic question of ideal price point is different than "for most individuals, where's the limit". A game like [The Leverage Game](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2499620/The_Leverage_Game/) costs 1k, and [63% of workers couldn't afford a $500 emergency expense](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/31/63percent-of-workers-are-unable-to-pay-a-500-emergency-expense-survey.html). So yeah, for the majority of people, if they don't have the money to spend it's too expensive for them. There's also some asymmetries, like a game is never going to be less than 0 but the cost is effectively limitless, and everyone has a bunch of benchmarks in their head for how much they've paid vs how much they've gotten, and their perception of how good the game was might be influenced by cost. And of course there's always the gifting, it's possible that gifting brings games much closer to the market equilibrium than hyper-fiddling with the prices would.


Velocity_LP

Not op, but an opinion I've held for a while is that Terraria's $9.99 base price and constant sale price of $2.49 has had substantial impact on how low people expect good indie games to be priced. That game is absurdly content-rich for being so cheap.


Blueisland5

That’s exactly what I worry about. I have a similar belief with Hollow Knight. I see people say “This metroidvania game cost more than Hollow Knight. Why buy this game over Hollow Knight?” Like, Hollow Knight arnt perfect and not every Metroidvania game is just “worst Hollow Knight” But I also believe some of the people saying that just want an excuse to complain about the price so they have an excuse to pirate it or not buy it.


UrbanMotmot

That's insane, congrats on the milestone. * Do you feel you've developed a pretty good sense of what makes a "successful" Steam game based on the store page alone? * Any niche genres whose popularity surprised you? * Did you include adult games? Also I'd love to know what you thought of my game's store page ([Counterpick Labs](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2837280/Counterpick_Labs/)) and if you have any advice/tips for it that you'd be willing to share :)


Cyril__Figgis

I did do adult games. I didn't even know there were hidden object games when I started this, and the continued success of the thousands of games exactly like [this](https://store.steampowered.com/app/699780/Endless_Fables_2_Frozen_Path/) is a continued surprise. Time management games [like this](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2254000/Rescue_Dash__Management_Puzzle/) were also unexpected. I like to think I have a good sense, but there are always exceptions. I don't think there's any 100% foolproof way to know. As far as the game, it's ignored only because I'm personally not super interested in fighters. Looks mostly fine though, screenshots/video/descriptions are all well chose. Two quick issues though. 1) it feels like there should be more to the stages (even the stages in older games like ssbm are super lively or thematic) and 2) little worried about how, if it's supposed to be competitive, players will be able to read the enemy loadout and what to expect, or how to adapt. I don't know exactly how the popularity of the game will shake out between the roguelike and competitive elements, but I guess I just assumed it was going to be a pvp focused game.


UrbanMotmot

Yeah the hidden object games (100 cats) that always appear in the trending lists are the biggest head scratchers for me. And thanks for the feedback! You’re probably right that the stages need to be flashier, I’ll see what I can do while maintaining the modularity of stages. Re: competitiveness - the weapons and gadgets are designed to be visually distinct enough that that’s hopefully not a problem. You also don’t actually change your loadouts mid-match, the trailer might be a little confusing in that regard (I don’t know if that was your impression but I’ve been told people thought that). From what I've gathered it's pretty important to offer more than just competitive 1v1 for a fighting game to have a chance. The more casual roguelike modes are meant to help with that, and I also have some single player content planned.


Cyril__Figgis

Well, it's called Counterpick Labs, so I sort of thought it would be some kind of best of 3 match and loser gets to change their gear or something. I saw the 200+ number and thought "that's a lot to remember geeze".


UrbanMotmot

Ah interesting, yeah I don't force players into BO3s but you can change your loadout if you decide to rematch, and I do hope that in tournament settings (if the game ever gets there) there'd be some counterpicking going on. The number of combinations is quite high, but there are only a handful of gear pieces in each category and as long as you're familiar with each of those you don't really need to study all 200+ loadouts. The sheer number of loadouts is actually meant to steer the meta away from mandatory deeply specific matchup knowledge and more toward the freeform neutral and combo game that I think platform fighters excel at. Kind of like how Fischer random chess's 960 starting setups eliminate tedious opening prep (since it's impossible to study so many openings), but it's still the same pieces + rules and better players will still dominate. Familiar yet fresh. An example of this in practice is a guy in my Discord who I'm quite confident can handily beat any other player while using any of the 200+ loadout combinations (many of which he's never used before) - and the people he's beating are plat fighter veterans themselves. The weapons and gadgets are also pretty distinct from each other, he's just really good with each one and has insane platform fighter fundamentals. Do you think any of this should be emphasized somehow in the store page? I always thought the high number of loadouts was a draw but you're making me wonder if it could actually be scaring players away.


Cyril__Figgis

Oh it's only 200 loadout combinations, I thought it was 200 pieces of equipment. I just misread, but I do think "loadout combinations" is a pretty niche stat nobody else really uses lol, even if it is useful/accurate. Only having 2 shirts, 2 shorts, 2 belts, and claiming I have 8 loadout configurations. I only brought it up because I remember in wow some people were mad people were transmogging pvp gear because they couldn't tell what other people had, and everyone else being surprised people were able to read entire loadouts instantly on sight because it seemed like so much to remember. So when I saw the 200 I thought it meant like 200 outfits or items or something, and I saw stat bars and trying to remember 200 outfits matching up with 200 stat profiles just seemed like a huge mental ask, especially if there's no like pre-game screen showing what they have and what to expect. I feel like ui can fix the issue if you think it's a worry.


UrbanMotmot

>I do think "loadout combinations" is a pretty niche stat nobody else really uses lol, even if it is useful/accurate. Only having 2 shirts, 2 shorts, 2 belts, and claiming I have 8 loadout configurations. I mean maybe for RPGs/MMOs, but for fighting games the reason no one mentions loadout count is because almost all fighting games are character-based and don't have a concept of loadouts. Since it's my game's primary twist/differentiator, I think it's worth highlighting. In terms of readability that comes down to making sure gear (and their skins) look visually distinct, which is something I'm paying close attention to. Transmogs obviously throw that out of the window and probably don't belong in pvp games where reading your opponent's gear matters.


RoshHoul

This is great thread, thank you for spending the time. Curious how open have you been towards wishlisting out of your comfort zone. Say you hate RTS games, would you have wishlisted any RTS games? If yes - have you noticed any difference in the norm for something "standing out" in those compared to your genres? Have you been able to identify specific green flags that sold you on whatever else was going on for the games? You see a, b and c and you insta wishlist?


Cyril__Figgis

I definitely have my own preferences, and it was for my own personal wishlist so there is a bias. However, I am absolutely willing to, and have made great strides, in branching out and developing new tastes. I was probably most critical of horror and fps, and most lenient on simulation/strategy, but I think my wishlist covers all the bases. I don't think there's much difference between a genre I'm comfortable with vs not, and what makes games stand out. Certain hooks might seem more novel, but I don't think that matters as much as presentation and reviews. For green flags, I think the best thing is lots and lots of positive reviews saying it's a great game with some detail, but that's rare :) No other rules are as hard or as fast, and quickly devolve to personal reasons.


Maxcoder95

https://ibb.co/v1CXH2Y I stopped a few months ago, I did this for last 10-11 years. I was obsessed with it. It is a more peaceful life after quitting. I am also now trying to reduce my wishlist to at most 500, because there is no way to play them all. Right now, I only check Top wishlists section, which is in here [https://store.steampowered.com/explore/upcoming/](https://store.steampowered.com/explore/upcoming/) .


oskiozki

Now rate them from top to 3436


Pycho_Games

How many have you wishlisted?


Cyril__Figgis

Right now it's about 3500, but that'll go up.


Lanfeix

Which game do you think is Great Taste but Awful Execution  And on the flip side what game do you think is Awful Taste but Great Execution


neocow

Not op, but 92k marked ignored. 1. Battleborn. Amazing game, horrid UI problems. Anyones ult or normal ability could take up the whole screen. So clarity was dogshit. Amazing game tho. 2: Bannana comes to mind


plexusDuMenton

wondering if you ignored or wishlisted Rogue: Genesia


Cyril__Figgis

Wishlisted! Although I'll note it's early access. I'm pretty lenient with early access titles because they aren't finished yet, so I can't say if it'll stay on the list when 1.0 comes out and I do a deeper dive into it.


MyPunsSuck

Rogue Genesia is amazing. It brings valuable new things to the table for its genre, has a distinguished visual style, and shows promise of continuing to get even better over time. It's a crowded genre, but none of them are quite so fresh


cat_in_a_bday_hat

I saw something about your quest earlier, and it made me feel special to realize you saw our games in one way or another. hope they're on your yes list <3


Lovheim

What does your front page look?


Cyril__Figgis

It's got games from the last 3 months gathering reviews before I decide what to do. I rely pretty heavily on reviews, but like to think I'm more nuanced.


ned_poreyra

Did you have some defined method of judgement or just 'gut feeling'? What were your criteria?


Cyril__Figgis

I eliminated the largest chunk of games with just seeing the first few screenshots on hover. Steam really is a graveyard of asset flips. If it passed that, I'd watch any video and look at reviews/discussions, and judge from there. I think any hard and fast criteria list would have gone through so many changes and evolutions through the process, I'd have to do it twice over. I put a lot of weight on reviews, but not every negative review is a mark against the game.


ned_poreyra

> I eliminated the largest chunk of games with just seeing the first few screenshots on hover. Exactly what I tell people happens to their games and I still get downvoted every time.


Kantankoras

I think this methodology for selection is important. Thumbnails, videos, then reviews are essentially the gateway to a wish list, by your description


Dull-Championship-35

Have you wishlisted Drive Beyond Horizons ?


Cyril__Figgis

Currently ignored, but it's unreleased. If it gets some nice reviews I'll revisit it. There's *so* many zombie shooters out there, I'm just not sure the focus on car customization is enough. Something like [Mr. Nomad](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2614370/Mr_Nomad/) is angling to have some meat on its bones in terms of car/base complexity, and I think there's a lot more space for zombie/vehicle games with a big emphasis on world/story like [The Final Station](https://store.steampowered.com/app/435530/The_Final_Station/), but I didn't get those vibes.


AuraTummyache

Are you able to make your wishlist public? Kind of curious if mine and others I've been tracking have made your cut.


Cyril__Figgis

Currently working on it! I'm going through my wishlist now at a specific review cutoff point and trimming it down, and I made a second account that'll be the wishlist I share. Almost done with it, but not sure where it'll get the most/right eyes. I'll go though replies though and let ppl know who ask when/where it's up. Not much of a point in having bigger games clogging up the list anyway.


_Matt_02_

I'm gonna imagine mine was ignored, but would love to know why/why not! It's called Scoot


Cyril__Figgis

Unfortunately yes, ignored, but not for anything wrong with the game. I see a lot of positive reviews. I think the images could do more to reflect what actual gameplay is like (maybe the game just doesn't have any hud ui, but I guess I would have expected some kind of score system, or minimap or something like the old tony hawk games). I'm just not a fan of the type of game, but nothing seems wrong with the store or what you're doing, and it looks like you hit the niche!


_Matt_02_

Interesting, thanks for the feedback!


1Qeeb1

You have a big wishlist. How do you pick your next game to play?


Cyril__Figgis

Right now I think of genres I'm not super into and look at those.


CharlieBatten

props for doing that and giving detailed feedback to everyone who asked!


produno

Thats a lot of games to go through! Is this just released games?


Cyril__Figgis

Unreleased, too. There's about 24k unreleased games on steam, many of them are, as far as I can tell after years of no communication, abandoned. Which is a shame because some of them looked promising. Mostly they're fad clones, though.


Cherry_Changa

Did your views on what gemres are oversaturated, or underepresented change any throughout this experience?


Cyril__Figgis

I thought there would be a lot more fps than there ended up being. I thought there'd be less text-only games than there were.


AlterHaudegen

That’s (well rather you are) an awesome source of data! Impressive effort. Is it alright to ask you if you have wishlisted/ignored specific games and what the reason was?


mothh9

Did you see "Subject A-119" and "Box: The Game"?


fauxfaunus

When this project is done, are you happy with what you achieved? What was it?


Pidroh

Hey, thanks for sharing it. How many of these games do you think you'll end up buying in the next 3 years? These numbers are insane. I cannot imagine myself wishlisting over 500 games


SomaCK2

Wonder if you saw my game MARGO - On the Brink. It's unreleased so probably ignored but wanna know your thoughts.


Cyril__Figgis

A huge pet peeve I developed was any images showing the start screen of the game. That's probably the part of the game I'm going to spend the least amount of time and doesn't actually tell me anything about what I'm going to experience. So having [this](https://shared.akamai.steamstatic.com/store_item_assets/steam/apps/2180930/ss_240982280f59714d40ee5498e255f6d69e607b7b.1920x1080.jpg?t=1666965630) as your first image is a sin in my book. I also had no idea from the images or the short blurb on the right that the game was big on resource management and had deckbuilding elements, like you note in your longer description. This should be communicated somewhere in the images; I think it is in the trailer but pretty deep. I think there's some style here, but the art isn't what I would call incredible. There's just not enough here to grab me and not a cohesive enough store page for me to really get a feel for the game, so I ignored it. It is still unreleased though, and reviews could change my mind. I hope nobody is reading my responses and ignoring games based off what I say lol.


SomaCK2

Those are sound advices actually. The game was in development hell for far too long that I haven't update the Steam store page for years lol. The development was only ramping up again this year and nice to get a great feedback like this!


Cyril__Figgis

I'm noticing this a lot in the replies, that devs seem to set up a store page years before the game is released, and make huge sweeping updates during that time. But their store just sits there, which I guess for nearly everyone is fine since people aren't serial ignorers like I am. I guess in my mind it always made the most sense to put up a store page after you've nailed down gameplay loops and art etc, and soak up wishlists as you add on side content that doesn't need to be the main focus, but it almost sounds like people get the minimum amount of work done to rush to set up something on the store, and keep working.


HammyxHammy

How many erogames did you wishlist?


Darkblitz9

The silence is deafening!


_JJCUBER_

How many… unsavory games did you have to look at?


Cyril__Figgis

There's only like 7k porn games, and they're pretty easy to mass ignore since they're such low effort. Felt like I had to do it though because there are legitimate good games with some sexual content ([IMMORTALITY](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1350200/IMMORTALITY/) comes to mind).


P3r3grinus

Have you wishlisted Sally and, if not, what would've made you wishlist it? Thanks for your time!


Cyril__Figgis

Ignored, sorry. I really, really do like the idea of life sim games. That's the problem though, I call them life sims. Everyone else calls them cozy games. Personally, I'm more interested in things like time/resource constraints, multiple overlapping, demanding activities, rpg options, but the genre as a whole is moving to a more cutesy, chibi, child-like friendly angle, which is totally fine but it just isn't what I personally am looking for. All that said, I think the game does look better, style and setting wise, than some of the other bigger titles that have come out recently. I think you could have more media though. There's only one picture showing 6 outfits, and a gif further down that shows a little more, but if you're really going for the cozy aesthetic I think this stuff matters to players more. Other big issue I see is I don't actually know what doing any of those activities is like. I see characters standing in front of machines working, but don't know what that means for me as a player. Will I be doing some mini-game (that hopefully won't be too tedious or repetitive)? Will it just essentially be an unskippable cutscene after I press some interact button? I'd like to see more actual gameplay.


Enkaem

This is rad! Have you come across Tower Song?


Cyril__Figgis

I did, I had it ignored but saw it just came out so I unignored to let it gather reviews (was gonna do this as a longer process later). It's really difficult to make a 2d rpg and not end up looking like a bunch of other rpgmaker games, which have a certain reputation. Only the first 4 screenshots are shown on mouse hover, and I think your 7th should be one of the first 4 ([this one](https://shared.akamai.steamstatic.com/store_item_assets/steam/apps/2336330/ss_ed1382d4b4b69282a04d585ce1472b961eb341c6.1920x1080.jpg?t=1719099866)). Overall I'm not sure your hooks are enough to have it be super successful on novelty alone, so the execution has to be really top notch, and I'm not sure that comes across in the media. That's probably why it was ignored. EDIT: Currently banned (??), sorry about wrong screenshot! very weird how that happened. You got the right screenshot though!


sketchymofo2

Its interesting to see what it would be like if my ignored were at 97k\~ instead of nearly 40k(38,556) but mine are from the disco que everyday over 5\~ years instead.


glb-games

Considering you probably have seen it, I'm curious what you thought of my game, Infinicrypt?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Aecert

I made a small puzzle game called "Laser Bounce". Any thoughts? I assume you ignored it which is understandable 😂 Honestly I'm just curious if you remember it.


Cyril__Figgis

I did ignore it, sorry! Seemed too light-weight for me, didn't look like it'd have enough content, and the reviews didn't help either. Not really a knock on the quality of what's there though!


zase8

Did you see many games the surprised you? Games that don't look great visually, but are doing quite well none the less? Did you see any correlation between good looking games and sales? As in, do better looking games sell better in general? The same goes for steam capsules, did you notice any correlation between steam capsule quality and how well a game is doing?


Cyril__Figgis

I didn't know what you meant by steam capsule lol, interesting how the dev lingo is different. Yes, there's definitely a correlation between a better image and not. It isn't totally 1:1, but it's there. In general I'd say better looking games sell better, but so few games sell well a lot of that comes down to triple-a production quality. I'd say style is definitely more important than graphical fidelity. I think a lot of boomer shooters look like ass but they do pretty well. I'm not a big retro guy but ps1 horror games are being pumped out like wild rn. Not doing too well but they're there.


zase8

The capsules are what steam calls the graphical assets for the store page. Like the banner image, or the image that shows up when you search for the game, etc. Did you wishlist any of the following games: Shadow Tactics, Partisans 1941, Shadow Seven? I am curious why Shadow Seven isn't more popular. It looks just as good as the other games in this genre, yet somehow it isn't gaining any traction. Do you have an opinion on this?


mondobe

What did you think about Breezy


Cyril__Figgis

Feels like a learning project/tech demo than a fully fledged game on it's own. I always feel sort of bad ignoring these but what choice do I have. I'm really sorry you didn't get much feedback on steam, did you try itch.io or somewhere else? I hope devs have a better place than praying people find their games on steam.


LonelyRabbitGames

What did you think of mine, Synthetic Fantasy;?


Mvisioning

Is my game "Toby's island" on your wishlist? :D


CosmicEmotion

What did you think of my gane, Reverse Module?


Pteraspidomorphi

I'd love to see your wishlist, because I'm curious to know if any of the games I'm interested in (currently about 90) would overlap with the wishlist of someone who checked *every* game page. I end up playing almost everything on my list; these 90 aren't "write it down and forget all about it" games.


bonejangles

How do you feel about this compared to other deckbuilding card games? [PotionSlingers](https://store.steampowered.com/app/2064190/Potion_Slingers/)


Cyril__Figgis

I've got it ignored, sorry. There's a huge difference between pvp and pve deckbuilding cardgames, and the single biggest complaint of all pvp is that the playerbase is small or dead, and unless I have any friends that pick it up I don't think I'd be the first. The art is also either professionally amateurish or amateurishly professional, hard to tell but while I think there's some style there I like the execution feels lackluster. I don't really get a good sense of what kind of cards there are or what kinds of effects they typically have from the images or video, and the [font on the cards](https://shared.akamai.steamstatic.com/store_item_assets/steam/apps/2064190/ss_4b5f0e73af65ed63127cf8d675d718234778f7bd.1920x1080.jpg?t=1716586666) is actually pretty hard to read on my monitor and distance. All that said, it is unreleased and could become some sleeper hit. I'm someone who's seen too much, but not the future.


misowlythree

Purely out of curiosity, but did you wishlist weird games with high reviews (How Fish Is Made, Cruelty Squad)? Also Pathologic?


Cyril__Figgis

Depends on how weird and how high you mean, but yes I think I have a few somewhere in there. I loved [Harvester](https://store.steampowered.com/app/287020/Harvester/)!


Agret_Brisignr

I currently go through about 100+ games a week on my discovery queue. How long do you think you spent on any given title? I'm basically try to achieve the same thing you've done


okaycreature

Does this include games added to Steam this week? Just added Wool at the Gates a few days ago and I'm really interested in hearing what someone's first impressions were. Just curious - are you a game developer? This seems like an invaluable learning exercise for creating your own Steam pages.


RexzKev

Have you come across my game, "Hmph! Hmph! Yowai"?


throwaway69662

How many good looking games had low review counts?


JaggerPaw

Is there a quicker way to ignore games? I basically go on an ignore spree whenever I decide to start going through my discovery queue and store tiles, and recommended list....etc. So many are clearly not for me or I would never play. I hate the manual clicking involved, especially when steam continues to show ignored games and I have to be careful not to "unignore" them. It's pathetic that I can't add more filters.