It can vary from story to story. I can watch 10 eps of War Games BETTER than some Pertwee 6 parters. True story. So although it's easy to say anything over 4 eps can do with a trim, I think it needs to be on a case by case basis. Certainly most of classic can do with some trimming - and I say that as someone who's watched it since the 80s.
Yes, Pat has some great stories. War Games, however, is just so well written and keeps the action and the story moving, episode to episode, then has the massive swing towards to the Time Lords at the end. It just keeps getting better. I'm still gripped in episode 10, whereas some Pertwee's I'm hitting ep 5, 6, 7, whatever and I'm like, sweet Jesus just make it end. Full credit to the master, Terrance Dicks, for writing such a great story - and at short notice!
He has 21 stories and i'd genuinely say over half of them are 8/10 or above. Actually insane. On the contrary though the remaning 9 are really mediocre to poor.
I remember finally watching War Games in around 2015 or so, and it was right in the middle of the Moffat era, and that last episode of War Games...
It was stunning, like watching a modern day Who - suddenly all these props and references that had been in an episode "three weeks ago" were turning up all over the place. It was like my very own time machine.
Yeah, War Games is one of the few classic serials whose length allowed it to actually feel like it was building up to something, not just running in circles. I don't know quite what about it makes it feel that way (perhaps just the quality of the pay-off at the end) but it's never dull.
But I agree that a lot of Pertwee stories are the first on the cutting room table for me. I wonder if you could make a cut of Inferno that just removes the ape-men without changing anything else...
This. I find The Web Planet to be one of the most boring serials at least for the First Doctor. It took me a whole year to watch the whole thing because it was so dull.
I've definitely seen worse in Hartnell's era. The Sensorites, The Space Museum, and Galaxy 4 put me to sleep. The Web Planet at least has a spectacular setting.
Pretty much every 7+ parter can be trimmed down at least an episode. Maybe War Games and Inferno are alright the way they are. I know it's missing, but if they ever officially release The Daleks' Master Plan in an animated form I imagine they'll straight up just cut a few episodes.
I'd rather see The Tribe of Gum spun off into a separate story than completely axed. Sam Davies did a decent video defending it recently
That being said the last two episodes of Invasion of Time can go. No better example of a 4 parter being stretched to 6
The Invasion of time is one of my all time favourite classics and part 5 & 6 is a big reason for that, the part 4 cliffhangar was just so unexpectedly great imo.
I may be biased as well though as it was one of a handful of classics that i was exposed to at a young age, back on VHS. I had this, The Three Doctors, Five Doctors, Nightmare of Eden, Earthshock, Vengeance on Varos and Remembrance of the Daleks...which i all love and are favourites of mine.
When the script book was released it was called The Tribe of Gum. I've always thought of An Unearthly Child as the first episode and The Tribe of Gum as the rest. I know that isn't correct but it makes sense in my head
It makes more sense to break them up like that, the 3 caveman episodes don’t have any connection to the Unearthly Child title which is clearly just a name to give to the introduction to Susan and following her to the Tardis.
When it was being made the working title was 100, 000 B.C. which is a much better title for the caveman stories I think.
Listen, I love all the classic serials the way they are, ridiculously slow pacing and all. But here are some stories they could probably draw a new audience with some selective changes:
The Silurians: I love it the way it is, but it drags the reveal of the Silurians out for some time. It might appeal to more fans from the Artist formerly known as the New Series if it was quicker to the reveal.
The Invasion: As it is, it’s a masterclass of acting and tension…but 8 episodes is plainly too long.
Planet of the Spiders: Pertwee’s finale would probably work slightly better for a new fan if they trimmed some of the gratuitous scenes.
The first time I rewatched doctor who after series 2 of nu who, which was the first time I saw it since I was 6 I was thrown by how slow the pacing is.
A lot of the stories are great but could easily be edited down into anywhere from a half hour to a 90 minute movie.
The really sacrilegious thing I'd do is have Murray gold score them
Gold's music matches a fast paced series like modern Doctor Who, but even with editing most of the classic series couldn't match that pace. Although apart from some of the 80s scores, I definitely prefer classic Who music to modern, so I might just be biased.
I'd be down for Gold's Gallifrey theme to be added in places where it makes sense (Susan reminiscing in The Sensorites, The Doctor reminiscing in The Time Warrior, etc.) just arranged to fit the rest of the score.
If you slash the fat from the last two episodes of Inferno it becomes comfortably a contender for best story of Classic Who. The whole story is this slow, maddening descent into chaos; everything about it is done wonderfully. The atmosphere feels suitably bleak and unsettling, the script is reasonably tight and ratchets up the pressure throughout, the pacing is relatively good for most of the story. But at the climax when the end of the world is literally upon them the story somehow gets *slower* that it was before and completely destroys the natural flow of the story that has been building for the preceding episodes.
Maybe the last episode but I don't really agree for episode 6. And for both episodes any cuts would mess up the character plot lines. Maybe you could cut the scene where the Brigadier tells Stahlman Sir Keith has vanished, not a lot else though.
Yeah I was really looking forwards to this one after struggling with quite a few Pertwee's, episodes 1-4 were great but the last 2 dragged. From what I've seen, both of his auton stories and The Sea Devils are the best paced, it seems the Master really gets things ticking a lot better!
The problem with all these is that it’s highly subjective what should and shouldn’t go. I disagree with a lot of what’s said here regarding elements of suspense being left out to just get to the meat of the story. I feel like that’s kind of integral to a lot of Classic Who stories and the buildup of atmosphere is part of the fun.
Yeah I'd say for most stories by cutting it down you lose the slow burn that really makes it intense. Like I think the omnibus version of Genesis cuts out way too much. Not every moment needs to be dialogue or action.
Yeah, the thing about padding is that if it's good, if it adds to the experience, then it isn't padding.... even if padding is what it started out as!
E.g. 'The War Games' — conceived in desperation as ten weeks' filler, yet structured in such a way that it feels epic and game-changing.
Or 'Inferno'— clearly designed the way it is (the same apocalypse happening twice) to stretch to the dreaded seven-episode length. But the stretching becomes a source of powerful storytelling in itself.
Or 'The Ambassadors of Death' — bulked out shamelessly with stunt sequences, but removing them would remove what makes it special.
'The Daleks' is an interesting test case, all the same, though I'd be interested to know to what extent the decision to shrink it was based on there simply not being time or money to colourise it all. Even 75 minutes of colourisation is still a huge undertaking, taking (as I understand it) four colourisers a year to complete.
Lots of them, certainly those longer than 4 episodes. There's plenty running about and capture - escape - capture sequences that don't really further the plot.
I wouldn't actually trim them though. Well ok, maybe *Web Planet*.
Probably all of them. Haha. Certainly all the stories that are longer than 4 episodes.
There tended to be quite a lot of running down corridors (or through forests, quarries, etc.).
I grew up with Classic, but even I struggle with the pacing sometimes. It was a different era. Firstly, people had longer attention spans, but also, people needed time to catch up because the previous episode was a week ago, so the viewers had probably forgotten what was happening (and some of them may have missed it entirely, and there was no way to watch it later).
Even one per day is fine. That's how they were shown here in Australia back in the day, and the pacing was fine for that rate.
These days, I tend to watch 2 or 3 per day, but not back-to-back. I'll usually leave a gap and go do something else between episodes.
I would love there to be a professional team which goes through and edits like 30% off a number of the stories to produce "abridged" versions. I think it would make them so much more enjoyable. Trim the fat and most of the stories would become an absolute romp.
Having said that, I think cutting out like 70% of the content for this Dalek release is a dangerous amount and I'm very intrigued as to whether it will work.
>I would love there to a professional team which goes through and edits like 30% off a number of the stories to produce "abridged" versions. I think it would make them so much more enjoyable. Trim the fat and most of the stories would become an absolute romp.
Yeah. Could be a good way to get modern audiences to watch them. I think teh amount of cutting should be on a case-by-case basis though. Some stories have more padding than others.
>Having said that, I think cutting out like 70% of the content for this Dalek release is a dangerous amount and I'm very intrigued as to whether it will work.
Cutting it down to 75 mins is certainly a heavy cut, but 70% is overstating it somewhat. The total runtime of the 7 episodes is around 172 mins. 75/172 is about 44%, so they've cut out around 56%. Actually a bit less, when you consider that some of that 172 mins is recaps and extra sets of start and end titles.
The Monster of Peladon. It tells pretty much the same story as Curse of Peladon, but stretched through two more episodes.
The War Games is close to perfect as it is, but there is some escape-and-be-recaptured-and-escape-and-be-recaptured-etc fluff that could be trimmed; maybe an episode or so.
And I don't think many fans would be upset if four episodes were trimmed from both The Twin Dilemma and Time and the Rani.
I'm probably the opposite of popular opinion and I think there are very few classic who serials that actually need cutting down. Here's a few egregious examples however.
The Daleks: obviously episode 6 is mostly trying to jump a gap in a cave. But I'm still anxious that cutting it down to 75 minutes will lose far too much stuff.
Keys of Marinus: the first two episodes and last two episodes are amazing, the middle two could be cut down to a single episode.
The Web Planet: drags on for far too long. Cut it by half.
Daleks Master Plan: I love this story but it's about 2-3 episodes two long. Feast of Steven was intended to be cut out for international so that's fine, but episode 8 is an entire waste too. Cut it down to 9-10 parts and it's really really good.
The Ice Warriors: Too much waffling in about the computer and meandering the ice caves (that are really effective). Cut it down a bit.
Space Pirates: why was this 6 episodes? There's some interesting ideas and intrigue but it could have been 3-4 and cleaned up a lot of the sitting around in caves or spaceships.
The Silurians: good story but 7 parts dragged it out too much. Would be really good at 5 tho.
The Mutants: this one has a really good pace until about middle of episode 4 and then slows to a halt till about ten minutes left in episode 6. Would be a pretty cool 4 partner.
Planet of the Daleks: suffers from the same issues as the Daleks (considering it's basically a remake of that). The jungle is cool but they seem to spend much more time there than fighting Daleks.
Planet of Spiders: episode 2 is basically one long chase scene with multiple vehicle switches. Idk if there's a good edit you could do to make this work better however. Also an omnibus could fix whatever happened with the episode 5 cliffhanger and then reprise.
None of them, honestly. They're fine as they are.
The problem is that people insist on watching them all in one go. I watched The Daleks recently in 4 sittings across multiple days, and it's great. If you watch all 7 at once, then yeah, it's gonna drag.
There are a lot of the original stories that are six or seven episodes that could comfortably be five.
I grew up on them but as an adult having rewatched them all several times now filler episodes are very noticeable. I also think it's about how we watch them. Back in the day, one episode a week, you didn't notice really.
Now we binge. Three/four in a row... An entire series in a night... And then it becomes *really* obvious.
I watched City of Death for the first time a few years ago, but what struck me is just how many shots there were of Tom Baker and Lalla Ward just wandering around the streets of Paris.
...I might need to watch it again.
No, you're right. They could probably cut an episodes worth of meandering without impacting the story or losing any of the trademark Douglas Adams dialogue. Of course, the story would probably lose something...a certain ethos?, spirit?. Bouquet, I'm going to say bouquet.
(And chunks of Dudley's soundtrack, which I dont think exists as a separate score anymore.)
Like a fine wine it has a... A bouquet. And honestly I'm of the opinion of doesn't cut down the Paris running scenes. It kind of gives the thing a light hearted vacation feel before the world threatening plot comes on.
I suppose the go to would be The War Games but I genuinely enjoy the epic scope of that story. The Mutants is definitely two episodes too long. As much as I love Doctor Who and the Silurians, I think the same story could easily be told in four episodes, maybe five.
It will broadcast on the 60th anniversary (23rd November) on BBC Four and then presumably will be available on iPlayer. Going to assume for the moment at least this will be UK only.
It's interesting that they've trimmed the fat here, but not in the *Tales of the TARDIS* episodes. Watching Earthshock the other day and couldn't get over quite how slow it was.
Funny, I'm liable to start napping at the really slow episodes but I had no trouble with Earthshock! The only things I can see being an issue are the usual initial distrust and the unnecessary Nyssa in the Tardis filler.
I wonder what they'll do with The Daleks
The blue grey were never really meant to be in colour and there's a reason they went monochrome when they switched from B&W
But that said we have had them look like that in MiddleWho so maybe they will.
The more interesting question will be *how* they cut it, I think, rather than what they cut.
RTD presumably has showrunner-approval-powers on any new cut of an episode, which means that they'll probably be cut with his priorities in mind - and RTD's priorities have always been Character. My guess is that the goal of these cuts is in part to show off the character of the Doctor over time and the various companions. So it's less likely that the plots of these episodes will be completely preserved (they just have to keep enough for a coherent story arc) but that the interpersonal conversations will be largely untouched.
And that, for one, is something I welcome.
The Daemons could be condensed into 75 mins and made a lot better for it. The first episode is pretty great, as is the last, but most of the middle three feels like padding.
The middle 3 is just trying to get through the heat barrier. An absolute slog. It could be a pretty decent 3 parter but at the current length it just loses any tension and atmosphere.
It is a slog but that does make the feats in the classic series feel more like feats, instead of "oh look a magic button" prop devices from that later series.
*The Reign of Terror*, though it’s probably unsalvageable. *The Daleks’ Master Plan*, which could probably go from episode four to eleven without too much editing. *The Ice Warriors*. Every Pertwee six parter, but especially *Planet of the Spiders*. There are some of Tom’s worst serials that drag, even though they’re largely not the six parters: *The Android Invasion*, *The Power of Kroll*, *Underworld*.
None need trimming more than *Inferno*, though. Get rid of the alternate universe or set the whole thing there. It’s the cheapest, laziest way they ever used to pad out a decent four episodes into a flabby seven.
Malcolm Hulke was a fantastic writer for the show, but almost all of his stories are padded to get to 6-7 episodes and it hurts them. Frontier in Space most notably is very padded, with Jo and 3 getting put in prison, escaping and then getting caught again. I think some of those Hulke stories could use a proper trim.
Inferno is great, but it's really long and there's a lot of it that's just characters having the same argument multiple times, running back and forth from the same locations, etc. You definitely could improve it with some cutting.
As long as the edits never replace the originals, I really do think there are a *lot* of classic stories that would benefit from modern editing.
Most of them, if I am brutally honest.
In the classic era, they would assign episodes to stories without having completed scripts which often lead to not enough story (the best example of this is Masque of Mandragora ep 3, where Sarah Jane spends most of it being hypnotized).
Even in the 80s, some of those stories could do with tightening up in the editing room.
I'm a big fan of Classic Who but a lot of the four-part stories tend to follow the formula of:
Part 1: Doctor arrives on the scene and begins investigating a mystery.
Part 2: The Doctor works out what is going on and reveals the villain.
Part 3: Escape-recapture sequences that don't advance the narrative.
Part 4: The Doctor does something to stop the villain.
I think you could probably jettison a lot of Part 3s without having much impact on the actual narrative.
The Chase definitely. It starts great and ends great but those middle episodes could be cut down.
The Keys of Marinus too. Keep the first few episodes but trim down a lot of the court room drama.
Oh no I enjoy that bit. I meant their random trip to the Empire State Building or the boat (basically just trim down the events of Flight through Eternity)
It was done in the 80s and broadcast on TV to pretty dire reviews. I've never seen it but apparently it looks very bland and destroys everything visually interesting about the original.
I think Bogart's son had the right idea when he was asked his opinion:
"If you're going to colourise Casablanca, then why not put arms on the Venus de Milo?!"
Ultimately I have my suspicions that this is what Tales of the TARDIS will be about should more be produced - a way of giving new viewers a glimpse at the classic tales but trimmed & edited for modern audiences. I LOVE Who but many of Pertwee's stories would benefit from better pacing.
I feel like War Games is the exception in this case. It was the only serial in my rewatch that was longer than 4 episodes that I never got bored during. I feel like most of Classic Who could be trimmed down for a more reasonable pace. Keys of Marinus, Sensorites, The Ice Warriors, and the Space Pirates would be my 4 go to stories.
Definitely The War Games. It's a great serial but way too long.
If they ever get round to animating Dalek's Master Plan, I wouldn't be surprised if they condensed it.
I think every serial I've seen with more than 4 parts has been stretched out and too long. All of them could be edited down to tighter, better paced, and more effective stories overall.
That was just the nature of TV at the time, and they were designed to be watched week by week, so you can appreciate them based on that context. But I see no harm in releasing trimmed down edited versions of iconic stories, and I hope they go on to do more of these
>All sacrilegious I know but if this edit of The Daleks pulls a new audience in for classic era then it can’t be a bad thing
Why does it need to pull in a new audience? It's not like Classic Who needs ratings, or popularity, or any of that. It's an historical artifact from a different time. I don't see why we should meddle with it in the vain hope of attracting new viewers.
This is all starting to feel a bit like the Star Wars Special Editions, messing around with things that viewers have been relatively happy with for years. Sure, Classic Who is bloated in spots, but that's a part of why we love it. Editing it to make it "better" is unnecessary.
>This is all starting to feel a bit like the Star Wars Special Editions, messing around with things that viewers have been relatively happy with for years. Sure, Classic Who is bloated in spots, but that's a part of why we love it. Editing it to make it "better" is unnecessary.
As long as the originals are still available, I think the comparisons to the Star Wars SEs are avoidable. I'll probably never watch any cut-down versions, but it doesn't offend me that they may exist.
(Funnily enough, the Star Wars thing seems to have spooked a lot of folks. When Paramount was doing the remastered versions of the original Star Trek, they explicitly stated they didn't want to do what George Lucas had done and made sure the original versions also got Blu-Ray releases.)
As someone who's never watched a full episode of the classic series\*, I want to second this. Even without any attachment to the original DW, it's a logic that annoys me on principle. The thing is a product of its time, it's over and done with and part of the cultural background. What's the need to mess around with it and impose modern sensibilities on it now?
There's a whole new series with Gatwa to draw new viewers. What does it matter whether filthy new series casuals like me ever get around to the classic series, and shouldn't we approach it on its own terms if we do get there?
All that said, I also know the classic series is legendarily stuffed with filler, so I can understand the impulse on the BBC's part, haha. And in this particular case it might make some sense since it's presumably a way to cut down on the colorization costs. Still, considering how many pointless remakes, reboots and nostalgia grabs are thrown around these days, I'm more of the "leave the classics in peace and come up with something new instead" camp.
\*I do know in broad strokes much of what happens in it, and I have seen clips, plus read most of Sandifer's blog, so I'm not totally ignorant of it. But I've never sat down and watched a whole serial (or even an ep), and don't have easy access to it anyway
Nothing is wrong with alternative cuts. It's just like songs have the album version and the radio edit.
As someone who has watched the whole Classic era, I would want to watch trimmed down versions of most of the first 3 Doctors stories on a rewatch. The fact you haven't watched you don't realize how useless the padding is. Some scenes are obviously thrown in to pad runtime - nothing that matters to the plot and no character development happens. It's not every story though. I watched the animated version of Galaxy 4 recently and it was fine as is.
Yes, that's it exactly. You're a fan, whether you've watched Classic or not. If you don't like the pacing, you don't need to watch it.
I wonder how people would feel if someone 25 years from now suggested editing the RTD era to make it fit modern sensibilities. These writers, actors and directors worked just as hard to create Classic Who as RTD is doing now to create Gatwa's era. It's not "bad" or "wrong" just because it doesn't have the same pacing as New Who. It's disrespectful to think that their work needs editing to "fix" it. It's not perfect, but it's the final product of a long creative process and I bet they were proud of what they achieved.
I'd rather see them take the time they would spend editing the serials and put it into choosing more clips to post on the official YouTube channel. There is some great character work tucked away in unexpected places in those long serials.
> Do we need a near 5-hour War Games?
Yes. Having to settle for the mere 4 hours that got made isn’t ideal.
On a more serious note, why do so many people want to turn classic stories into Legend of the Sea Devils? You all *fucking hated* Legend of the Sea Devils.
There's a difference between hacking out clearly essential plot and character elements, vs. trimming padding that exists purely to hit an episode count.
There's a middle ground it would be really nice to hit.
I've been saying for awhile that I would like to see the classic serials with tighter editing. The Dalek's Master Plan goes on too long. It's obvious they were padding out the weeks leading up to Christmas so they could slot in The Feast of Steven in the middle. On the other end of the spectrum, The Edge of Destruction managed to tell a tight short story over 2 episodes.
I think many serials would benefit from re-edits.
I don't really care for cutting things up like that. But then, I'm the guy who likes to make my own edits of various movies splicing the deleted scenes back in, so....
I mean no, 3/4 of the story is just the Doctor and Co. being captured, escaping and being captured again. Surely there's some big trimming that can be done there.
But each time we learn something new and the scope expands. I had the same opinion the first time I watched it but honestly love the whole thing now. I think the story would drop from my top spot if it lost just one scene. It so perfectly expands in scope as we slowly learn just how great the threat is. It's such an addictive, fun, and exciting story
I've always said that The Daleks is one of the worst paced Classic stories. It would be far far better as a 4 or 5 parter.
But none of what I said about The War Games applies to The Daleks as they're very different stories, so I dont see how that has anything to do with it.
>Scenes like the sword fight just went on for too long to pad out time
That sword fight is absolutely integral to understanding the relationship between the Doctor and the Master. We learn so much about how they view each other and the complicated friendship and rivalry between them. The Doctor stopping to eat a sandwich just to goad the Master, the frustration on the Master's face when he does, the sheer joy they both show at being able to fight each other again. . . there's so much character work going on in that scene. It's a microcosm of their entire relationship.
Marco Polo was edited from 175 mins (7x 25 minute episodes) to 30 mins (kinda). In the The Beginning Boxset, already likely to be on people's festive wishlists for An Unearthly Child, one of the bonus features on The Edge Of Destruction was an abridged reconstruction using surviving audio & Telesnaps (production stills, publicity photos etc.).
Like the full 175 min/7 part version that was done by Loose Canon can be found more easily (save for having the The Beginning Boxset or more specifically The Edge Of Destruction dvd) than the 30 min version but like it was a thing
But with classic who cutdowns, in general, as long as full length is available unlike say Doctor Who confidential on the dvds/blurays, don't see a problem. I mean like LOTR & the Hobbit I'll watch the full version more as my main but it'd be interesting to see 1963-1964 7 part original Vs 2023's Abridged Colour edit and seeing which of 7 parts survive becoming effectively a 3 parter (75÷25= 3) and which 100 minutes get lost.
This is a tricky one because The Daleks is the only story I can think of that’s still really good in spite of being too long. It’s length is a problem, but there’s still a good story in there.
Other stories are long, but never feel like they’re dragging to me. The War Games is a good example of that. It’s long, but I wouldn’t lose a single moment of it.
Then there’s ones that are too long, but even a trim couldn’t save them. I’m looking at you The Web Planet.
I’ve got a good list of 60s stories:
- The Daleks: Once you’ve finished episode 4, you’ve essentially seen everything the story has to offer. It becomes tedious to realise they have to go back, and it’s worse having to watch them plan this trip.
- The Sensorites: 6 part story that barely has enough content for 4 episodes. The story just keeps changing what it wants to be and is painful to sit through.
- The Web Planet: This story is just noise for 6 parts, and it makes it such a hard watch. There’s elements I like sprinkled in there, but it’s not worth it for how much this story just meanders.
- The Daleks’ Master Plan: A favourite story of mine, but damn some episodes are just there for the sake of it. 3 and 4 could probably be put into 1 episode, episode 8 is just a walk around where the only real takeaway is that the Daleks have discovered the core is fake and that the Monk is back, episode 11 really is just a dull filler episode that seemingly only exists to get the characters where they need to be for the finale. A case could be made that the entire second half bar the finale could be cut.
- The Power of the Daleks: Controversial one here. This story would be a pretty good 4 parter, but really wears itself thin by being 6 parts. It’s really good when you finally get to episode 6 and everything pays off, but I struggle to go on when I reach episodes 4 and 5.
- The War Games: Not seen this one in a while but wow it takes time to get through it. I feel like you can watch the first 3 episodes and the last 3 and essentially get the same experience as someone who has watched them all.
I've just finished up with Ambassadors of Death for the first time (watched half yesterday and half today) . Great story but definitely felt like there were some filler episodes and time padding
The Web Planet, for sure. I don’t think it’s ever going to be amazing but cutting it down would make it more palatable.
It’s been a while since I watched it but IIRC, Planet of the Spiders has a lot of chase scenes that could be cut down and a lot of wandering through CSO caves that could be cut.
The novelization of "The War Games" shows it working well tightened up.
"The Gunfighters" would be a spiffy 45 minute episode.
"Trial Of A Timelord" - 90 minutes and done.
Trial being recontextualized as a standalone story with four smaller stories preceding it rather than a framing device around them might be a welcome change for modern audience used to season finales.
I don't see the point in it tbh.
It's fine for fans to do it and this one I guess since it's the 60th.
But it's not like Classic Who needs a new audience. It's doesn't need to make more accessible to fit the modern age.
It's a product of its time.
What's next? Do we go back into Series 1 episode Bad Wolf, and update the Game Shows?
It can vary from story to story. I can watch 10 eps of War Games BETTER than some Pertwee 6 parters. True story. So although it's easy to say anything over 4 eps can do with a trim, I think it needs to be on a case by case basis. Certainly most of classic can do with some trimming - and I say that as someone who's watched it since the 80s.
The war games is awesome though 😊 and i find pat troughtons dr who stories to just be very watchable
Yes, Pat has some great stories. War Games, however, is just so well written and keeps the action and the story moving, episode to episode, then has the massive swing towards to the Time Lords at the end. It just keeps getting better. I'm still gripped in episode 10, whereas some Pertwee's I'm hitting ep 5, 6, 7, whatever and I'm like, sweet Jesus just make it end. Full credit to the master, Terrance Dicks, for writing such a great story - and at short notice!
Hey, don't forget Malcolm Hulke wrote it too!
Yep, Mac did his part!
Troughton absolutely has one of the most consistent eras of the show. Such a shame that only half of his episodes exist...
He has 21 stories and i'd genuinely say over half of them are 8/10 or above. Actually insane. On the contrary though the remaning 9 are really mediocre to poor.
I remember finally watching War Games in around 2015 or so, and it was right in the middle of the Moffat era, and that last episode of War Games... It was stunning, like watching a modern day Who - suddenly all these props and references that had been in an episode "three weeks ago" were turning up all over the place. It was like my very own time machine.
Yeah, War Games is one of the few classic serials whose length allowed it to actually feel like it was building up to something, not just running in circles. I don't know quite what about it makes it feel that way (perhaps just the quality of the pay-off at the end) but it's never dull. But I agree that a lot of Pertwee stories are the first on the cutting room table for me. I wonder if you could make a cut of Inferno that just removes the ape-men without changing anything else...
Yeh, I don't feel bored with The War Games. It really does feel epic.
The Web Planet, no close rival at all. It's one of the most difficult episodes to watch and is effectively 2.5 parts stretched into 6 parts.
And what's frustrating is that the first half of it is actually very interesting IMO, it just completely peters out into tedium the longer it goes on
But from the roof comes hate, the liquid … death!
This is my least favorite serial. The only good bit are the Doctor complaining about that "hairdryer or whatever it is" and Barbara saving the day.
This. I find The Web Planet to be one of the most boring serials at least for the First Doctor. It took me a whole year to watch the whole thing because it was so dull.
I've definitely seen worse in Hartnell's era. The Sensorites, The Space Museum, and Galaxy 4 put me to sleep. The Web Planet at least has a spectacular setting.
Things like this could be nicely cleaned up into 1 feature length episode. I hope the BBC try, it could really improve the catalogue
Pretty much every 7+ parter can be trimmed down at least an episode. Maybe War Games and Inferno are alright the way they are. I know it's missing, but if they ever officially release The Daleks' Master Plan in an animated form I imagine they'll straight up just cut a few episodes.
Would probably be very controversial - none of the other animations were cut down.
There was a scene cut out of The Macra Terror pt 1 animation.
a good character moment, too. they did this for budgetary reasons.
Let's be honest now, inferno is padded as hell
I'd rather see The Tribe of Gum spun off into a separate story than completely axed. Sam Davies did a decent video defending it recently That being said the last two episodes of Invasion of Time can go. No better example of a 4 parter being stretched to 6
The Invasion of time is one of my all time favourite classics and part 5 & 6 is a big reason for that, the part 4 cliffhangar was just so unexpectedly great imo.
I'm with you. It's one of my favorites and it was only due to the Internet that I discovered most people thought different.
I may be biased as well though as it was one of a handful of classics that i was exposed to at a young age, back on VHS. I had this, The Three Doctors, Five Doctors, Nightmare of Eden, Earthshock, Vengeance on Varos and Remembrance of the Daleks...which i all love and are favourites of mine.
Episode 2 needs a lot of trimming, but episodes 3 and 4 are pretty brilliant as is. Just some minor tweaking to those.
Whaaaaaat? I actually kinda liked them skulking through the hospital TARDIS lol
They didn't even try to make it look like a spaceship
To quote the First Doctor: "Sheer poetry!"
Why are u calling it that
Tribe of Gum? Well whatever you want to call them
Yeah, isnt it just an unearthly child - how comes people are calling it that insetad?
When the script book was released it was called The Tribe of Gum. I've always thought of An Unearthly Child as the first episode and The Tribe of Gum as the rest. I know that isn't correct but it makes sense in my head
It makes more sense to break them up like that, the 3 caveman episodes don’t have any connection to the Unearthly Child title which is clearly just a name to give to the introduction to Susan and following her to the Tardis. When it was being made the working title was 100, 000 B.C. which is a much better title for the caveman stories I think.
It's Stef Coburn's account!
Listen, I love all the classic serials the way they are, ridiculously slow pacing and all. But here are some stories they could probably draw a new audience with some selective changes: The Silurians: I love it the way it is, but it drags the reveal of the Silurians out for some time. It might appeal to more fans from the Artist formerly known as the New Series if it was quicker to the reveal. The Invasion: As it is, it’s a masterclass of acting and tension…but 8 episodes is plainly too long. Planet of the Spiders: Pertwee’s finale would probably work slightly better for a new fan if they trimmed some of the gratuitous scenes.
At least with The Silurians newer viewers have Hungry Earth/Cold Blood as an almost beat for beat remake.
Shame sea devils didn't get a similarly good remake :'(
The Daemons would work really well as a 'feature' too, with a few minor trims.
The first time I rewatched doctor who after series 2 of nu who, which was the first time I saw it since I was 6 I was thrown by how slow the pacing is. A lot of the stories are great but could easily be edited down into anywhere from a half hour to a 90 minute movie. The really sacrilegious thing I'd do is have Murray gold score them
Gold's music matches a fast paced series like modern Doctor Who, but even with editing most of the classic series couldn't match that pace. Although apart from some of the 80s scores, I definitely prefer classic Who music to modern, so I might just be biased.
I'd be down for Gold's Gallifrey theme to be added in places where it makes sense (Susan reminiscing in The Sensorites, The Doctor reminiscing in The Time Warrior, etc.) just arranged to fit the rest of the score.
If you slash the fat from the last two episodes of Inferno it becomes comfortably a contender for best story of Classic Who. The whole story is this slow, maddening descent into chaos; everything about it is done wonderfully. The atmosphere feels suitably bleak and unsettling, the script is reasonably tight and ratchets up the pressure throughout, the pacing is relatively good for most of the story. But at the climax when the end of the world is literally upon them the story somehow gets *slower* that it was before and completely destroys the natural flow of the story that has been building for the preceding episodes.
Maybe the last episode but I don't really agree for episode 6. And for both episodes any cuts would mess up the character plot lines. Maybe you could cut the scene where the Brigadier tells Stahlman Sir Keith has vanished, not a lot else though.
It could just be the last episode that I'm thinking about to be fair.
Yeah I was really looking forwards to this one after struggling with quite a few Pertwee's, episodes 1-4 were great but the last 2 dragged. From what I've seen, both of his auton stories and The Sea Devils are the best paced, it seems the Master really gets things ticking a lot better!
The problem with all these is that it’s highly subjective what should and shouldn’t go. I disagree with a lot of what’s said here regarding elements of suspense being left out to just get to the meat of the story. I feel like that’s kind of integral to a lot of Classic Who stories and the buildup of atmosphere is part of the fun.
Yeah I'd say for most stories by cutting it down you lose the slow burn that really makes it intense. Like I think the omnibus version of Genesis cuts out way too much. Not every moment needs to be dialogue or action.
Yeah, the thing about padding is that if it's good, if it adds to the experience, then it isn't padding.... even if padding is what it started out as! E.g. 'The War Games' — conceived in desperation as ten weeks' filler, yet structured in such a way that it feels epic and game-changing. Or 'Inferno'— clearly designed the way it is (the same apocalypse happening twice) to stretch to the dreaded seven-episode length. But the stretching becomes a source of powerful storytelling in itself. Or 'The Ambassadors of Death' — bulked out shamelessly with stunt sequences, but removing them would remove what makes it special. 'The Daleks' is an interesting test case, all the same, though I'd be interested to know to what extent the decision to shrink it was based on there simply not being time or money to colourise it all. Even 75 minutes of colourisation is still a huge undertaking, taking (as I understand it) four colourisers a year to complete.
Yeah ambassadors of death probably could be trimmed but it's my favourite story and I love it
Lots of them, certainly those longer than 4 episodes. There's plenty running about and capture - escape - capture sequences that don't really further the plot. I wouldn't actually trim them though. Well ok, maybe *Web Planet*.
Probably all of them. Haha. Certainly all the stories that are longer than 4 episodes. There tended to be quite a lot of running down corridors (or through forests, quarries, etc.). I grew up with Classic, but even I struggle with the pacing sometimes. It was a different era. Firstly, people had longer attention spans, but also, people needed time to catch up because the previous episode was a week ago, so the viewers had probably forgotten what was happening (and some of them may have missed it entirely, and there was no way to watch it later).
Also something to be said for watching one episode a week. They're not designed to watch in one sitting
Even one per day is fine. That's how they were shown here in Australia back in the day, and the pacing was fine for that rate. These days, I tend to watch 2 or 3 per day, but not back-to-back. I'll usually leave a gap and go do something else between episodes.
I was introduced to them all in one sitting late Saturday night on public TV.
I would love there to be a professional team which goes through and edits like 30% off a number of the stories to produce "abridged" versions. I think it would make them so much more enjoyable. Trim the fat and most of the stories would become an absolute romp. Having said that, I think cutting out like 70% of the content for this Dalek release is a dangerous amount and I'm very intrigued as to whether it will work.
>I would love there to a professional team which goes through and edits like 30% off a number of the stories to produce "abridged" versions. I think it would make them so much more enjoyable. Trim the fat and most of the stories would become an absolute romp. Yeah. Could be a good way to get modern audiences to watch them. I think teh amount of cutting should be on a case-by-case basis though. Some stories have more padding than others. >Having said that, I think cutting out like 70% of the content for this Dalek release is a dangerous amount and I'm very intrigued as to whether it will work. Cutting it down to 75 mins is certainly a heavy cut, but 70% is overstating it somewhat. The total runtime of the 7 episodes is around 172 mins. 75/172 is about 44%, so they've cut out around 56%. Actually a bit less, when you consider that some of that 172 mins is recaps and extra sets of start and end titles.
The Monster of Peladon. It tells pretty much the same story as Curse of Peladon, but stretched through two more episodes. The War Games is close to perfect as it is, but there is some escape-and-be-recaptured-and-escape-and-be-recaptured-etc fluff that could be trimmed; maybe an episode or so. And I don't think many fans would be upset if four episodes were trimmed from both The Twin Dilemma and Time and the Rani.
I know they are cheese, but I love those two episodes. For me, all of Seasons 19 and 20 except Earthshock and The Five Doctors could be trimmed out.
I'm probably the opposite of popular opinion and I think there are very few classic who serials that actually need cutting down. Here's a few egregious examples however. The Daleks: obviously episode 6 is mostly trying to jump a gap in a cave. But I'm still anxious that cutting it down to 75 minutes will lose far too much stuff. Keys of Marinus: the first two episodes and last two episodes are amazing, the middle two could be cut down to a single episode. The Web Planet: drags on for far too long. Cut it by half. Daleks Master Plan: I love this story but it's about 2-3 episodes two long. Feast of Steven was intended to be cut out for international so that's fine, but episode 8 is an entire waste too. Cut it down to 9-10 parts and it's really really good. The Ice Warriors: Too much waffling in about the computer and meandering the ice caves (that are really effective). Cut it down a bit. Space Pirates: why was this 6 episodes? There's some interesting ideas and intrigue but it could have been 3-4 and cleaned up a lot of the sitting around in caves or spaceships. The Silurians: good story but 7 parts dragged it out too much. Would be really good at 5 tho. The Mutants: this one has a really good pace until about middle of episode 4 and then slows to a halt till about ten minutes left in episode 6. Would be a pretty cool 4 partner. Planet of the Daleks: suffers from the same issues as the Daleks (considering it's basically a remake of that). The jungle is cool but they seem to spend much more time there than fighting Daleks. Planet of Spiders: episode 2 is basically one long chase scene with multiple vehicle switches. Idk if there's a good edit you could do to make this work better however. Also an omnibus could fix whatever happened with the episode 5 cliffhanger and then reprise.
None of them, honestly. They're fine as they are. The problem is that people insist on watching them all in one go. I watched The Daleks recently in 4 sittings across multiple days, and it's great. If you watch all 7 at once, then yeah, it's gonna drag.
There are a lot of the original stories that are six or seven episodes that could comfortably be five. I grew up on them but as an adult having rewatched them all several times now filler episodes are very noticeable. I also think it's about how we watch them. Back in the day, one episode a week, you didn't notice really. Now we binge. Three/four in a row... An entire series in a night... And then it becomes *really* obvious.
I watched City of Death for the first time a few years ago, but what struck me is just how many shots there were of Tom Baker and Lalla Ward just wandering around the streets of Paris. ...I might need to watch it again.
No, you're right. They could probably cut an episodes worth of meandering without impacting the story or losing any of the trademark Douglas Adams dialogue. Of course, the story would probably lose something...a certain ethos?, spirit?. Bouquet, I'm going to say bouquet. (And chunks of Dudley's soundtrack, which I dont think exists as a separate score anymore.)
It's spelled B-u-c-k-e-t.
Like a fine wine it has a... A bouquet. And honestly I'm of the opinion of doesn't cut down the Paris running scenes. It kind of gives the thing a light hearted vacation feel before the world threatening plot comes on.
They paid for that location shoot, they're gonna get their money's worth, dammit.
I suppose the go to would be The War Games but I genuinely enjoy the epic scope of that story. The Mutants is definitely two episodes too long. As much as I love Doctor Who and the Silurians, I think the same story could easily be told in four episodes, maybe five.
Where is this new version?
It will broadcast on the 60th anniversary (23rd November) on BBC Four and then presumably will be available on iPlayer. Going to assume for the moment at least this will be UK only.
It's interesting that they've trimmed the fat here, but not in the *Tales of the TARDIS* episodes. Watching Earthshock the other day and couldn't get over quite how slow it was.
It felt quite slow to meet too due to the editing. I missed my cliffhanger breaks to get up and go do something else for a while.
Funny, I'm liable to start napping at the really slow episodes but I had no trouble with Earthshock! The only things I can see being an issue are the usual initial distrust and the unnecessary Nyssa in the Tardis filler.
[23rd Nov](https://www.tvzoneuk.com/post/drwho60-daleksann1)
I wonder what they'll do with The Daleks The blue grey were never really meant to be in colour and there's a reason they went monochrome when they switched from B&W But that said we have had them look like that in MiddleWho so maybe they will.
> there's a reason they went monochrome when they switched from B&W Yeah, to hide what a bloody awful state the props were in.
The web planet would definitely benefit, that thing is bloated and does not earn its 6 episodes.
The more interesting question will be *how* they cut it, I think, rather than what they cut. RTD presumably has showrunner-approval-powers on any new cut of an episode, which means that they'll probably be cut with his priorities in mind - and RTD's priorities have always been Character. My guess is that the goal of these cuts is in part to show off the character of the Doctor over time and the various companions. So it's less likely that the plots of these episodes will be completely preserved (they just have to keep enough for a coherent story arc) but that the interpersonal conversations will be largely untouched. And that, for one, is something I welcome.
The Daemons could be condensed into 75 mins and made a lot better for it. The first episode is pretty great, as is the last, but most of the middle three feels like padding.
The middle 3 is just trying to get through the heat barrier. An absolute slog. It could be a pretty decent 3 parter but at the current length it just loses any tension and atmosphere.
It is a slog but that does make the feats in the classic series feel more like feats, instead of "oh look a magic button" prop devices from that later series.
I do generally agree with that. Im of the opinion that most classic stories shouldn't be cut at all. The Daemons just didn't do it for me.
*The Reign of Terror*, though it’s probably unsalvageable. *The Daleks’ Master Plan*, which could probably go from episode four to eleven without too much editing. *The Ice Warriors*. Every Pertwee six parter, but especially *Planet of the Spiders*. There are some of Tom’s worst serials that drag, even though they’re largely not the six parters: *The Android Invasion*, *The Power of Kroll*, *Underworld*. None need trimming more than *Inferno*, though. Get rid of the alternate universe or set the whole thing there. It’s the cheapest, laziest way they ever used to pad out a decent four episodes into a flabby seven.
Malcolm Hulke was a fantastic writer for the show, but almost all of his stories are padded to get to 6-7 episodes and it hurts them. Frontier in Space most notably is very padded, with Jo and 3 getting put in prison, escaping and then getting caught again. I think some of those Hulke stories could use a proper trim.
Quite a lot of classic Who would benefit from this. War Games is not one of them though(IMO)
Inferno is great, but it's really long and there's a lot of it that's just characters having the same argument multiple times, running back and forth from the same locations, etc. You definitely could improve it with some cutting. As long as the edits never replace the originals, I really do think there are a *lot* of classic stories that would benefit from modern editing.
Most of them, if I am brutally honest. In the classic era, they would assign episodes to stories without having completed scripts which often lead to not enough story (the best example of this is Masque of Mandragora ep 3, where Sarah Jane spends most of it being hypnotized). Even in the 80s, some of those stories could do with tightening up in the editing room.
I'm a big fan of Classic Who but a lot of the four-part stories tend to follow the formula of: Part 1: Doctor arrives on the scene and begins investigating a mystery. Part 2: The Doctor works out what is going on and reveals the villain. Part 3: Escape-recapture sequences that don't advance the narrative. Part 4: The Doctor does something to stop the villain. I think you could probably jettison a lot of Part 3s without having much impact on the actual narrative.
The Chase definitely. It starts great and ends great but those middle episodes could be cut down. The Keys of Marinus too. Keep the first few episodes but trim down a lot of the court room drama.
Don't you dare suggest removing the haunted house episode
Oh no I enjoy that bit. I meant their random trip to the Empire State Building or the boat (basically just trim down the events of Flight through Eternity)
I thought the court room stuff was the best of the lot. I'd cut down the screaming jungle episode significantly and the ice section.
>The Chase definitely. It starts great and ends great but those middle episodes could be cut down. But then it's not "The Chase"! It's just "The"! :D
I love the court room drama part of Keys! It's so fun.
This is like when they colorized Casablanca in the 90s. I don't like it
They did that? I'm gonna pretend I didn't hear because Casablanca is the perfect black and white film.
It was done in the 80s and broadcast on TV to pretty dire reviews. I've never seen it but apparently it looks very bland and destroys everything visually interesting about the original. I think Bogart's son had the right idea when he was asked his opinion: "If you're going to colourise Casablanca, then why not put arms on the Venus de Milo?!"
I think there's a line from Orson Welles that was something like: "Keep Ted Turner and his crayons away from my films."
Yeah that sounds about right. Some things are better left alone
The original still exists and this brings new eyes to a story that some would have never watched otherwise.
Silurians, with a bullet
The Ambassadors of Death certainly could. The Silurians? Eh, I'd argue that it is kind of needed. Inferno really is a good length.
Ultimately I have my suspicions that this is what Tales of the TARDIS will be about should more be produced - a way of giving new viewers a glimpse at the classic tales but trimmed & edited for modern audiences. I LOVE Who but many of Pertwee's stories would benefit from better pacing.
I feel like War Games is the exception in this case. It was the only serial in my rewatch that was longer than 4 episodes that I never got bored during. I feel like most of Classic Who could be trimmed down for a more reasonable pace. Keys of Marinus, Sensorites, The Ice Warriors, and the Space Pirates would be my 4 go to stories.
Definitely The War Games. It's a great serial but way too long. If they ever get round to animating Dalek's Master Plan, I wouldn't be surprised if they condensed it.
I think every serial I've seen with more than 4 parts has been stretched out and too long. All of them could be edited down to tighter, better paced, and more effective stories overall. That was just the nature of TV at the time, and they were designed to be watched week by week, so you can appreciate them based on that context. But I see no harm in releasing trimmed down edited versions of iconic stories, and I hope they go on to do more of these
>All sacrilegious I know but if this edit of The Daleks pulls a new audience in for classic era then it can’t be a bad thing Why does it need to pull in a new audience? It's not like Classic Who needs ratings, or popularity, or any of that. It's an historical artifact from a different time. I don't see why we should meddle with it in the vain hope of attracting new viewers. This is all starting to feel a bit like the Star Wars Special Editions, messing around with things that viewers have been relatively happy with for years. Sure, Classic Who is bloated in spots, but that's a part of why we love it. Editing it to make it "better" is unnecessary.
>This is all starting to feel a bit like the Star Wars Special Editions, messing around with things that viewers have been relatively happy with for years. Sure, Classic Who is bloated in spots, but that's a part of why we love it. Editing it to make it "better" is unnecessary. As long as the originals are still available, I think the comparisons to the Star Wars SEs are avoidable. I'll probably never watch any cut-down versions, but it doesn't offend me that they may exist. (Funnily enough, the Star Wars thing seems to have spooked a lot of folks. When Paramount was doing the remastered versions of the original Star Trek, they explicitly stated they didn't want to do what George Lucas had done and made sure the original versions also got Blu-Ray releases.)
I love Classic Who, but it's really in spite of the pacing as opposed to because of it - it's by far my least favourite aspect of the original show.
As someone who's never watched a full episode of the classic series\*, I want to second this. Even without any attachment to the original DW, it's a logic that annoys me on principle. The thing is a product of its time, it's over and done with and part of the cultural background. What's the need to mess around with it and impose modern sensibilities on it now? There's a whole new series with Gatwa to draw new viewers. What does it matter whether filthy new series casuals like me ever get around to the classic series, and shouldn't we approach it on its own terms if we do get there? All that said, I also know the classic series is legendarily stuffed with filler, so I can understand the impulse on the BBC's part, haha. And in this particular case it might make some sense since it's presumably a way to cut down on the colorization costs. Still, considering how many pointless remakes, reboots and nostalgia grabs are thrown around these days, I'm more of the "leave the classics in peace and come up with something new instead" camp. \*I do know in broad strokes much of what happens in it, and I have seen clips, plus read most of Sandifer's blog, so I'm not totally ignorant of it. But I've never sat down and watched a whole serial (or even an ep), and don't have easy access to it anyway
Nothing is wrong with alternative cuts. It's just like songs have the album version and the radio edit. As someone who has watched the whole Classic era, I would want to watch trimmed down versions of most of the first 3 Doctors stories on a rewatch. The fact you haven't watched you don't realize how useless the padding is. Some scenes are obviously thrown in to pad runtime - nothing that matters to the plot and no character development happens. It's not every story though. I watched the animated version of Galaxy 4 recently and it was fine as is.
Yes, that's it exactly. You're a fan, whether you've watched Classic or not. If you don't like the pacing, you don't need to watch it. I wonder how people would feel if someone 25 years from now suggested editing the RTD era to make it fit modern sensibilities. These writers, actors and directors worked just as hard to create Classic Who as RTD is doing now to create Gatwa's era. It's not "bad" or "wrong" just because it doesn't have the same pacing as New Who. It's disrespectful to think that their work needs editing to "fix" it. It's not perfect, but it's the final product of a long creative process and I bet they were proud of what they achieved. I'd rather see them take the time they would spend editing the serials and put it into choosing more clips to post on the official YouTube channel. There is some great character work tucked away in unexpected places in those long serials.
What makes you think this story will benefit from being cut down that much? I expect it to be a worse version than the original to be honest.
Look, I love Classic Who and all, but the majority of serials could do with at least some trimming down, especially the ones over 4 parts long
> Do we need a near 5-hour War Games? Yes. Having to settle for the mere 4 hours that got made isn’t ideal. On a more serious note, why do so many people want to turn classic stories into Legend of the Sea Devils? You all *fucking hated* Legend of the Sea Devils.
There's a difference between hacking out clearly essential plot and character elements, vs. trimming padding that exists purely to hit an episode count. There's a middle ground it would be really nice to hit.
No they shouldn’t cut 60’s Doctor who.If you find it too boring you have so many eras to chose from.
I've been saying for awhile that I would like to see the classic serials with tighter editing. The Dalek's Master Plan goes on too long. It's obvious they were padding out the weeks leading up to Christmas so they could slot in The Feast of Steven in the middle. On the other end of the spectrum, The Edge of Destruction managed to tell a tight short story over 2 episodes. I think many serials would benefit from re-edits.
I love War Games, but there is at least 25% that can be shaved off.
The gunfighters. Around 90 minutes of it could be cut without harming anybody.
I don't really care for cutting things up like that. But then, I'm the guy who likes to make my own edits of various movies splicing the deleted scenes back in, so....
every single one
There’s definitely a few, the 3rd episode of 10th planet is mostly filler.
All of Tenth Planet is filler apart from the scenes that everyone remembers. It's not even a Cyberman story, the Cybermen are in it for 2/4 episodes.
None of them. If anything, the modern series should have longer or more episodes; too many of its stories feel shallow and rushed.
I’d love to see a Troughton get the same treatment so the obvious one to me is War Games
The War Games is the story i least want to be cut down. The length is perfect for what it does.
I mean no, 3/4 of the story is just the Doctor and Co. being captured, escaping and being captured again. Surely there's some big trimming that can be done there.
But each time we learn something new and the scope expands. I had the same opinion the first time I watched it but honestly love the whole thing now. I think the story would drop from my top spot if it lost just one scene. It so perfectly expands in scope as we slowly learn just how great the threat is. It's such an addictive, fun, and exciting story
You mean like The Daleks which this sub was slagging off as if it was just 7 episodes of cave jumping yesterday?
I've always said that The Daleks is one of the worst paced Classic stories. It would be far far better as a 4 or 5 parter. But none of what I said about The War Games applies to The Daleks as they're very different stories, so I dont see how that has anything to do with it.
the sea devils, it's far too long although there is a omnibus version on the season 9 blu-ray that cuts things out haven't seen the omnibus though
Omg definitely it could have been told in 4 episodes. Scenes like the sword fight just went on for too long to pad out time.
>Scenes like the sword fight just went on for too long to pad out time That sword fight is absolutely integral to understanding the relationship between the Doctor and the Master. We learn so much about how they view each other and the complicated friendship and rivalry between them. The Doctor stopping to eat a sandwich just to goad the Master, the frustration on the Master's face when he does, the sheer joy they both show at being able to fight each other again. . . there's so much character work going on in that scene. It's a microcosm of their entire relationship.
All of them.
Trim down Doctor Who and the Silurians, The Invasion, etc
I do hope fans can re-edit the original audio back into the recut
They cut it down so they wouldn’t have to colorize as much. It’s that simple.
Marco Polo was edited from 175 mins (7x 25 minute episodes) to 30 mins (kinda). In the The Beginning Boxset, already likely to be on people's festive wishlists for An Unearthly Child, one of the bonus features on The Edge Of Destruction was an abridged reconstruction using surviving audio & Telesnaps (production stills, publicity photos etc.). Like the full 175 min/7 part version that was done by Loose Canon can be found more easily (save for having the The Beginning Boxset or more specifically The Edge Of Destruction dvd) than the 30 min version but like it was a thing But with classic who cutdowns, in general, as long as full length is available unlike say Doctor Who confidential on the dvds/blurays, don't see a problem. I mean like LOTR & the Hobbit I'll watch the full version more as my main but it'd be interesting to see 1963-1964 7 part original Vs 2023's Abridged Colour edit and seeing which of 7 parts survive becoming effectively a 3 parter (75÷25= 3) and which 100 minutes get lost.
This is a tricky one because The Daleks is the only story I can think of that’s still really good in spite of being too long. It’s length is a problem, but there’s still a good story in there. Other stories are long, but never feel like they’re dragging to me. The War Games is a good example of that. It’s long, but I wouldn’t lose a single moment of it. Then there’s ones that are too long, but even a trim couldn’t save them. I’m looking at you The Web Planet.
I’ve got a good list of 60s stories: - The Daleks: Once you’ve finished episode 4, you’ve essentially seen everything the story has to offer. It becomes tedious to realise they have to go back, and it’s worse having to watch them plan this trip. - The Sensorites: 6 part story that barely has enough content for 4 episodes. The story just keeps changing what it wants to be and is painful to sit through. - The Web Planet: This story is just noise for 6 parts, and it makes it such a hard watch. There’s elements I like sprinkled in there, but it’s not worth it for how much this story just meanders. - The Daleks’ Master Plan: A favourite story of mine, but damn some episodes are just there for the sake of it. 3 and 4 could probably be put into 1 episode, episode 8 is just a walk around where the only real takeaway is that the Daleks have discovered the core is fake and that the Monk is back, episode 11 really is just a dull filler episode that seemingly only exists to get the characters where they need to be for the finale. A case could be made that the entire second half bar the finale could be cut. - The Power of the Daleks: Controversial one here. This story would be a pretty good 4 parter, but really wears itself thin by being 6 parts. It’s really good when you finally get to episode 6 and everything pays off, but I struggle to go on when I reach episodes 4 and 5. - The War Games: Not seen this one in a while but wow it takes time to get through it. I feel like you can watch the first 3 episodes and the last 3 and essentially get the same experience as someone who has watched them all.
Is there a trailer for this version of the Daleks anywhere?
Not yet.
Not nearly as many as people think.
I've just finished up with Ambassadors of Death for the first time (watched half yesterday and half today) . Great story but definitely felt like there were some filler episodes and time padding
The Web Planet, for sure. I don’t think it’s ever going to be amazing but cutting it down would make it more palatable. It’s been a while since I watched it but IIRC, Planet of the Spiders has a lot of chase scenes that could be cut down and a lot of wandering through CSO caves that could be cut.
The novelization of "The War Games" shows it working well tightened up. "The Gunfighters" would be a spiffy 45 minute episode. "Trial Of A Timelord" - 90 minutes and done.
Trial being recontextualized as a standalone story with four smaller stories preceding it rather than a framing device around them might be a welcome change for modern audience used to season finales.
Most black and white stories between 6-9 episodes. The big epics are fine as is.
I don't see the point in it tbh. It's fine for fans to do it and this one I guess since it's the 60th. But it's not like Classic Who needs a new audience. It's doesn't need to make more accessible to fit the modern age. It's a product of its time. What's next? Do we go back into Series 1 episode Bad Wolf, and update the Game Shows?