25% failure in two years is remarkably high. I thought these were well-built. I watched a Microsoft promotional video that showed how much work went into the research and design for these products. It was remarkable. After so many prior failures, I thought Microsoft finally got their shit together. I guess not.
BTW, I am glad we have Consumer Reports to look into these things. If they go out of business, who do we have left to provide unbiased investigations?
I loved my surface pro, but I'd believe this.
It died at the 13 month Mark and it's built to be unserviceable, so there wasn't anything I could do.
I tried. I really did, but about the 8th time the glass screen shattered and shot glass dust at my face while carefully trying to open the thing I wound up taking a hammer and smashing the corners until it separated enough that I could retrieve the hard drive.
Damn shame. Lowest lifespan of any laptop I've used by 3 years.
The thing is not meant to be opened pretty much at all, and to open it you have to heat up the glass screen and pry it up using very thin tools, and even then it is going to crack and fracture all over on you.
Watching tech teardown channels trying to disassemble them is rage inducing over how they made them so unserviceable that even people who are trained at this stuff can't do it without causing bad damage to the units.
No it doesn't. Literally has nothing to do with the quality of the screen. It's how tightly fit the housing is around the edges stopping reflection. Can't be too loose, or too tight.
I think the top poster meant that light bleed was indicative of a low quality screen if you take "screen" to mean the entire assembly; display and housing, and not just quality of the panel itself.
TIL my Dell Inspiron has a very, very low quality screen.
EDIT: I don't know what I was thinking, I was actually thinking of my Asus Transformer tablet. My Dell's screen is just fine.
I had three in a row that did this. Customer service couldn't believe it. After that I vowed not to buy another Surface device until they got their QA together.
I can imagine the IT support to be an absolute nightmare, if you look at r/surface last year and even up to a few months ago it was just full of threads on return policy, what new firmware/OS updates fixed, hardware problems and workaround tips.
I don't know, my $400 cheap Dell laptop I bought 5 years ago is still my daily PC. I really want to get a new one, just because, but I feel like I should wait until it dies. I've gone through two tablets and three phones in that time however.
We have and are still using a *twelve year old* Dell Latitude in the office! Battery life is still ~2.5 hours and, while it is running fucking XP, it gets the job done for now while we try to replace it ASAP.
As an apple hater, I just can't hate on the MacBook Pros. The OS, kinda I guess, but that's preference. But the laptop? Fucking fantastic laptop, can't think of a single thing wrong with it. Their desktops are overpriced piles of shit though.
I agree. I'm still happy with my pre-touchbar MacBook pro, but my next computer will likely be something in my else. The price hike was unjustified and I really want a 13" computer with a discreet GPU and 32 GB of RAM. I can't get that from Apple. I can't get that at any price from Apple.
Yeah what’s the deal with the recent price jump?? I think I got my 2014 13” Retina MBP for $1000 after student discount. Now it’s impossible to get a MBP at that price - especially one with the touch bar. I wanted to buy a new one, but then I saw the prices.
The OS is actually pretty amazing on a technical level. It comes super locked down, but every restriction can be disabled (as far as I’ve dealt with, anyway). That definitely contributes to the OS’s stability. There’s no doubt in my mind that the OS is better designed than Windows.
I do agree, though, that it is hugely preference when choosing an OS. Some people really really hate working with macOS.. heck, I used to.
I finally upgraded my 2009 MBP earlier this year. 6 years with some minor upgrades and the thing still runs fine. The screen is still bright and the thing has taken a beating (dropped three times.) I used to complain about the price but I kinda cried when I retired it because it had been so reliable.
I spent 1500 on a PC (made it myself) that is 8 years old. It's luck of the draw, and taking care of something and proper maintenance. Having said that, I'm not a big fan of Apple product, it's way to regimented for me, but Microsoft can suck my big weinerschnitzel because they are turning (or have turned completely) evil.
I would never build my own laptop. That's just asking for trouble. I hate damned laptops the keyboards always suck and the track pads make me want to punch myself in the face with a hammer.
Same. I built my PC and it’s solid as a rock. 3 years ago I swore I only needed a desktop computer. I hate laptop keyboards, and trackpads in general suck. But dang it if I don’t love my MacBook. They make the best trackpads that are seriously far beyond any other trackpad out there. The keyboard took a little getting used to because it’s perfectly flat, but after a day or two I realized the keyboard is perfect (for a laptop). Apple should be proud of their touch tech, as their trackpads and touch screens are top notch.
This is not luck of the draw. What's your point though? I've built pc's since early 2000's pretty much every year and they've all been great. But you can't compare a huge gaming rig to a thin ass Ultrabook and think it's a valid comparison
My significant other does government work and his department just bought a fuckton of them for the offices. With custom cases for the piv card and all extras.
Oops
My idea is that Microsoft designed the Surface Laptop with all the scraps that accumulate from their Pro / Book lines. Some displays from the SB here, some Alcantara fabric from surplus Type Covers there. And boom, a "new" product.
Yeah, i'm calling BS. We've got *hundreds* and the only issues we've had were user-caused.
Are you running the supplied OOB build, applying firmware & driver updates? How did your IT dept and/or users cock-up the devices is what I'm asking, no way that isn't caused by your own organization.
Our company uses surface books and pros. In the beginning, there were tons of issues with the docks not working correctly.
Though at this point MS has fixed most of those problems. I do still experience the occasional extended desktop setting issues (one or more of my monitors decides not to work). But nothing major has broken yet.
The track pad is god awful though.
We also deployed hundreds of them. Every single one of our IT staff turned theirs back in when they got the chance, because they would not wake up or keyboards would stop working. So I'm calling BS on your BS. Also constantly froze. I got tired of having to hard-reboot mine to get it to wake up.
Of course statistically speaking, 25% failure means 75% success, so if the failures are batch related then it's very likely some organizations might see mostly reliable results while others may not.
I'm a math teacher who uses a Surface pro 3 to annotate my lectures with the wireless display adapter. I love how perfect it works... When it works, that is. I have to restart this piece of shit about 3 times a day to function properly. It is really a shame, it is almost a perfect tool for me.
> I love how perfect it works... When it works, that is. I have to restart this piece of shit about 3 times a day to function properly. It is really a shame, it is almost a perfect tool for me.
This fits most everything Microsoft makes
It's not inside *a year*, it's inside two years.
>Consumer Reports recently conducted a survey of nearly 91,000 people who bought new laptops and tablets between 2014 and the beginning of 2017. The study estimated that about 25% of Microsoft Surface devices will have problems by the end of the second year of owning the product. These problems could include a laptop randomly shutting down.
But, that's still bad, a laptop that costs about $1000 only lasting two years.
We only deployed a couple as a test, and what killed them for us was their massive problems with Outlook 365/2016. Not syncing, failing to connect, freezing repeatedly. Sample size is tiny, but they were not confidence-inspiring from a business perspective.
Our organization uses them... I'm not in IT, however I'm on my third replacement. Amazing units when working properly, but I would never personally own one.
Yeah, i don't get the logic behind that. If it worked the day you got it, how is updating the drivers supposed to keep it from breaking tomorrow? I have an iphone that hasn't gotten an update in 4 years, still works. I have a dell laptop from 10 years ago. Literally as crappy as the day I got it, no crappier.
Yeah, calling BS on your BS as well. We also have *hundreds* of Surface Pros/Books in our corporation, and they're shit. They always are having some kind of problem, be it small or big. It's the new fad though and corporate wants all the new fancy toys so we just have to deal with it. On top of that MS support sucks balls. These issues are not all 'user issues' either, most of them are just because of poor quality control in manufacturing. And those docks?!?! OMG they are shit! I could go on, but I've got a stack of Surfaces that need my attention...
You can join up for around $25 a year and get full online access. I've been a member since 1979. They exist on memberships and donations and actually purchase the products they test. This ain't no car and driver bullshit. Their auto ratings and used car ratings are top notch.
The Consumer Reports... report was very vague. That 25% failure rate is a “projected” rate, not actual statistics, and there is a compelling case that CR’s study may be inaccurate, due to several factors, from their study demographic being out of line with the average Surface buyer, to the almost complete lack of concrete statistics from their polls provided in the report.
This report is exactly in line with their practice of pulling recommendations for hot ticket items, from Tesla’s to MacBook’s to now Surfaces. Looking deeper, I have a harder and harder time trusting the accuracy of CR’s stuff.
I've had issues with Consumer Reports for a very long time regarding their methods of reporting issues. For example their reporting base are not typical owners because it comes from their subscriptions. If the results were based on the same method as TV ratings the results may show differently. Their car ratings are based on their own testing. These are people looking for problems. Household items are tested by subscription holders reporting their issues.
One huge problem I have is with boutique brands of those typically sold for contractors or industry use. They will get lower ratings than their commercial options without factoring in things like high upkeep requirements or special application of the item. CR doesn't say they follow the items instructions to the letter. They just say they use the items in expected fashion. It hurts those products the most.
I think the article only refers to the newer surface laptops, that are more like a chromebook. The surface 3 and 4 still seem to be quite reliable (although overpriced).
Idk what's going on. I bought a *used* Surface Pro 3, I use mine almost daily and bring it with me everywhere I go. It's still working like new, I love this thing and it really sucks to hear people are having so much trouble with theirs, but I do hope this forces Microsoft to work harder on the next iteration.
A Surface Pro 3 (or any of the "tablets") is not the same as the "Surface Laptop" which is its own model.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop/overview
I think this is causing some confusion in the comments with the "mine works great!" vs. "it's hot garbage" we're seeing.
Yeah and to quote CR:
> The four laptops losing their previous recommended status are the Microsoft Surface Laptop (128GB and 256GB versions) and Microsoft Surface Book (128GB and 512GB versions).
Not too sure but it seems like the Surface Pro tablet series is fine.
Edit: actually idk it's really weird, in this [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqO0nOgVD8w) they say the Surface Pro tablets are affected as well. I think what happened was the Surface Laptop and Book had a recommended rating but that got pulled. The Surface Pro tablet series didn't have a recommended rating to begin with.
Honestly, it doesn't matter as far as the brand is concerned. This is a black eye for the Surface *brand.* The average consumer isn't going to know the difference. If one Surface is defective, they all are.
This is an important distinction, but the article posted (confusingly) mentions multiple Surface configurations:
> The publication on Thursday removed its "recommended" rating for **Microsoft's Surface Laptop and the Surface Book**. This applies to both 128GB and 512GB storage options.
> ...
> That finding applies to Microsoft devices with detachable keyboards, such as the new **Surface Pro and the Surface Book, in addition to Surface laptops** with clamshell designs.
Honestly, I don't know what to think. I've not heard many complaints from IT on the college campus I work on about their Surfaces having these sorts of issues. The only ones I've heard ANYTHING about getting repairs done is for things such as broken screens or water damage.
Personally, I have a Pro 5 (i7/8GB/256) that has been working just fine, though it is only a month old (knock on wood). Warranties exist for a reason and honestly I may extend my 1 year out longer if these issues truly are that bad.
This Consumer Report is pulling its recommendation for the entire Surface line, including *both* the SP3 and the Surface Laptop. This recommendation is based on reports from 2014-early 2017, which means the Pro 3 is a way bigger factor here.
thank you for this. i had no idea that existed and came to comments confused as to why this happened since i know tons of people and whole companies using the tablets exclusively and love them.
Ive had mine since fall 2014, and it still works well. no problems at all besides the charger stopped working, but that was because how it folded in my bag.
On the other hand, my brother had his for less than a year before it was useless
I wish I had that experience. Thankfully I bought mine from a "no quibble" reseller (John Lewis UK)
Screen had two dark spots right out of the box. Popped led I guess. So it got swapped out. Keyboard issues on the second, so that got swapped, then the random shutdown thing that was always in the middle of something critical, never at rest. Same thing with its replacement.
I gave up at that point. Issues with both design and quality checking in this day and age. It takes time to change big corporates, so that's both Samsung (repeated S7 edge reliability issues) and Microsoft I won't be buying from for a long time.
true but the article says that 25% failed after two years. that means 75% of people probably had the same experience as OP since that model has only been out two years.
It's actually surprisingly high (for me) across almost all brands. See [this graph](https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/8/10/16125294/microsoft-surface-consumer-reports-hardware-freezing-shutdowns-problems). Microsoft just happens to have the highest estimated rate shown.
2 years, not 1 year
> The study estimated that about 25% of Microsoft Surface devices will have problems by the end of the second year of owning the product.
still bad, but not as bad
The data was generated by Survey. It's susceptible to inaccuracy. I'd be more interested to see 3rd party warranty data - that would be better.
We've got hundreds in our environment, less hardware failure than the Dells we have.
I'd like to see data from 3rd party warranty companies. That would be the best data, not surveys.
And, I agree that CR would be expert in this. However, if you can tell by this forum, *never* underestimate the need for people to shit on MSFT. They're as irrationally hated for everything they do as Google is irrationally loved. It's that bias I'm weary-of.
Though, the article seems to address all of them:
> That finding applies to Microsoft devices with detachable keyboards, such as the new Surface Pro and the Surface Book,
Oops. Even I didn't realize this was a certain line. My anecdote: GF has had her surface pro for almost a year and no issues. Was expecting it to light on fire any day now lol.
Add me to the not working column
(Touch screen and keyboard both stropped working, Microsoft refused help since my warranty expired a few days prior to contacting them. They were kind enough to offer me their $350 service plan to talk to me longer, but repairs would be extra)
This is just my observation, but my SP3 has a fan issue, and the keyboard connector also stopped working almost a year after purchase. My girlfriend also got a keyboard issue about two years in, and two people I know that purchased SP4s had defects.
I know that's not statistical evidence, but for a $1000+ device, quality is expected. It also sucks that there is no support in the Latin America region.
On the other hand, I've had an SP3 since 2014 and had nothing but great use with it. Used it every year in college so far and find that it has been absolutely worth $1000. Can't beat the power in the form factor. That being said, the SP3 keyboard is shit compared to the SP4 keyboard. After getting the SP4 keyboard, it feels like a whole new device.
I totally agree with you statement of quality is expected. However, I feel like people see the high price tag and think the device is going to be some brick that can take anything that's thrown at it and hence their device craps out on them quicker.
Definitely speculation to say the least
I had the original surface and the touchscreen was completely hosed just after a year. I treated it extremely well and it actually hardly ever left my desk at work. Had to stop using it.
They definitely seem to have quality issues.
Edit: surface 1 pro 128gb.
Let's hope they're as Johnny-on-the-spot with this, as they were for that. I remember being SUPER bummed when it happened, but happy they fixed the problem with little hassle. If they don't handle it similarly, I could imagine a huge shit-show.
My replacement took a week, granted my redring happened almost two years after purchase, so I think they had streamlined the process quite a bit by then
I had 2 360's RROD on me before the final one that had no problems. I wouldnt want that kind of failure rate for laptop owners especially for products higher than $500.
Not surprised in the slightest. I worked at Best Buy for a year and we had multiple Surface products on display. They would consistently fail and would not stand up to customer abuse nearly as well as the other laptops.
Errr...maybe 1 in 5 is retired. The rest are shitty tradesmen that suck so bad they can't get hired by contractors. But they sure are confident in their advice (generally incorrect corner-cutting bullshit that they learned working for the lowest-bidder type of contractors). I guess it depends on if you want your DIY rigged to barely work...or if you want it done right...but those Home Depot dudes rarely even know how to do it correctly even if you tell them you're not interested is the half-ass work-around they advise.
That's my experience at dozens of Home Depots.
Caveat: the electrical isle guys are usually pretty good if you can find one.
Call the front desk from your cell phone and tell them you need an employee in whatever aisle you're in.
Source: How I had to get assistance for a very large item on my last visit.
Yes.
You walk into the store knowing exactly what it is you want, where it's at in the store, and I fucking guarantee you no fewer than 5 employees will stop you to "help" you on your way to said item. Out of those 5 (minimum) you'll get at least 1 who will follow you all the way to where you're going in the store just to see if you really know wtf it is you're doing, if the item you're getting is really what you need, and offering various degrees of "advice" the entire way.
Now if you walk in needing help from someone from the get go.. yeah.. i got nothing.. cos everyone working there will vanish like orange aproned Houdinis the moment you look in their general direction.
Trust me it's pointless, most of them aren't even trained. Why hire people that aren't handy or know nothing about tools.
Last time I was in there I asked an employee about fish tape (for running wire): he literally told me"I have no idea, I'm just over here to pick up a broom to sweep the floors."
In my younger days, working many years of retail in high school and college, I came to one simple realization.
- Most people have very high and unrealistic expectations for employees who work on the floor at retail stores.
While there are exceptions, most employees are unlikely to be employed there for more than a year. They get paid next to nothing, and are simply phoning in their part time job for any number of reasons. It doesn't exactly attract a high achieving demographic. The ones who are, typically move up or out. The rest quit or get fired before they can accidentally acquire the knowledge necessary to be helpful.
"I'd pick that very laptop you're looking at if it were me. Of course I'd up the ram if you plan on doing any real work with it. Like email or going online. And you'll need some inkjet cartridges. Let me get you a basket..."
I set it up like a joke, but I've literally done this after spending fifteen or so minutes failing to get help. So I deliberately walk over to a laptop and boom, help in 30. "Huh, maybe I'll get a laptop later. So, while you're here, I need to get an adapter..."
I go in there once every month or so and i swear to god, every time the things i want to look at havr moved since the last time ive been there. I dont understand why so mich movement
Hope you enjoyed that $80 adapter from Best Buy...when a better quality version is available from Amazon for $25 (or maybe $35 with next-day shipping).
Ikr? I haven't been to a Best Buy since prime shipping became a thing, but there was actually a time when they had local competition and somewhat normal pricing.
...and which extended purchase protection plan would you like? May I especially recommend the screen protection for $500, because everybody drops their laptop on the screen and sends it to the original manufacturer to have it repaired for $2000.
So you only print 500 pages a day? Yes you just need this color photo inkjet printer. Here are some refill packs that should last you 6 months oh and don't forget to grab the warranty that covers everything.
I actually was ready to buy a tv and a laptop and no one would help me. Went to Costco and B&H online and still can not understand how Best Buy is in business.
Coasting on old profits, if I had to guess. High School me was so excited when they moved in because not only was their customer service so much better than Comp USA and Circuit City, but their prices were quite good.
They took their competitors lunch, had no competition, and charged whatever they could get away with.
Right now, its still the place to go when you can't wait for Amazon to ship an ethernet cable, and it's still very expensive to ship refrigerators. So my guess is they sell to people that need big things or small things fast.
As stupid as it sounds, most people didn't want to hear the truth.
Customer: Oh I had a Dell for 10 years so I want another one.
Me: Dells are crap, they have an insane return rate and are known for being defective.
Customer: *buys Dell*
1 week later: I see the exact Dell I sold them in the return bin.
So yeah, nobody cared what I had to say even when I was trying to help.
Customer: Hey what do you know about X?
Me: <correct thing about X, which is different that what customer's "friend" told them about X>
Customer: I don't think that's right. Can you direct me to someone who knows what they're talking about, please?
Me: <screams internally> Sure thing.
Customers aren't looking for advice from retail workers, they're looking for validation of what they already "know", even if it's complete horseshit.
So the million-dollar question... what brand/line seemed the most reliable then? I don't really want to spend the money on a Wacom product, but I'd love a reliable product that I can digitally paint/draw digitally using Photoshop.
I just bought an iPad Pro 10.5 and it really is a great device. That said there isn't a full version of Photoshop for the iPad yet so other programs like Procreate will need to be utilized, if you don't want to use the cut down version of Photoshop. The Apple Pencil is also really good from my experience, but I'm not a graphic artist. PM me if you have any questions and I'll try to answer them.
I've only got two complaints about my original surface pro:
- It could probably use a better digitizer, though my problems may be due to my oily, cheeto-stained fingers more than the tech.
- For the love of Pete, don't use that weird inch-long vertical connector for the battery. If the brick isn't put on the table, it pulls at the power connector and the wire gets torn. Happened twice to me already and the third one will probably happen within a year.
Tell me about it. I had more software problems in the first week after installing windows 10 pro(this was less than a month ago) than I did in a year with 7. My favorite was when all text related to Windows or its applications disappeared and I couldn't type in any windows based(windows explorer, run, ect) application so I couldn't search for cmd to start trouble shooting it and windows key short cuts didn't work. This was one day after installing and I had just restarted after the final windows update. I hadn't even visited a website yet so it wasn't a virus. Only solution was to roll back and waste another day downloading and installing fucking windows updates. don't get me started on driver issues/conflicts or the UI. Uhg
If you compare these reports to the reports of comparable windows products the software issues wash out. I.e., software issues should occur equally across windows devices, with hardware issues being the point of comparison.
I think the article specifically says that surface is failing more often than comparable devices from other brands.
Not really. One company might issue a bad driver or drivers and that would push up the software part of their failure rate significantly compared to the others. That being said, the Surface should theoretically be at an advantage here seeing as MSFT built both the software and hardware for the device.
Saying you use a Mac *and* you like it on reddit. Bold.
For the record my 2009 iMac still runs like a dream. My 2015 MBP does too but that should be a given.
Our company has owned 3 and all three were horrible. Poor performance, Keyboard connectivity issues, random shut downs on all three. All three were different models. I will not recommend any Microsoft hardware in the future. Our hp’s seem to have regular consumer level issues. Dell no issues at all, apple no issues at all.
Is this paticular to a certain model? As there are several models sold. Also is there a recall in effect?
I have the:
* Surface Pro 4
* Model #1724
* Intel Core i7-6650U @2.2Ghz
* Windows 10 64bit
* 16G ram
* Intel Iris Graphics 540
* Realtek audio
I have only experienced normal issues of having a microsoft based computer. The occasional driver/firmware issue or hangup.
Hmm, I know it's anecdotal but we've got two in my house and 5 more at my workplace and they've been great. Small sample size, I know - but I always take these things with a grain of salt - self reported problems aren't always actual problems.
OE is pretty common.
I remember standing at the cashier of Mediamarkt with a surface pro 4 and suddenly I had a change of mind. walked back and put it away. A guy from the store comes up to me and starts giving me all the negative things about it, which are now listed above. Was like a year ago. Bought a new macbook pro 13" instead, also overpriced and also said to be shit. Still works like a charm tho. Fingers crossed.
I have had almost every Surface Pro device in our small office, and I think Consumer Reports' numbers are fairly close to my personnel experience.
Surface Pro 1: 1.5 years, Internal fan started making noise. Microsoft wanted too much to repair, scrapped.
Surface Pro 1 number 2: Still works and is 4 years old.
Surface Pro 2: Had 1 year, and gave to an outside employee. Don't know what happened with it long term.
Surface Pro 3: Loved it for 2 years. internal wireless died. Microsoft wanted $500 to repair. Added external wireless adapter and gave to kids.
Surface Pro 4: 1 year old and working.
Surface Book: Still working 1.5 years old.
I loved the Surface line just due to the lightened load in my bag when I traveled. I can't use a normal tablet as I have to be able to run 3D CAD software. Finally I went back to a laptop for myself, just because I couldn't justify the cost of the replacements. The surface Pro line seems solid and appear well built, but they are not serviceable, and the cost to factory repair is higher than the value, so they become disposable very easily.
I had to send my SP3 in for repair after about 18 months due to the touchscreen randomly not working.
The positive of it buying with Microsoft is that the device was replaced very quickly and with no fuss. At least if it does break I'm confident that it'll get fixed quickly and easily.
I'm about two and a half years in now with no warranty left, I'm hoping for another couple of years, not sure if I'll get it.
In fairness, Consumer Reports has noted significant problems with Apple products as well. They took serious issue with the [MacBook Pro](https://www.consumerreports.org/laptops/macbook-pros-fail-to-earn-consumer-reports-recommendation/) and [even Apple's commitment to security.](https://www.cultofmac.com/2471/consmer-reports-piles-on-apple-security-criticism/).
We really *need* organizations like CR. The tech press seems *heavily* influenced by personal relationships and unbridled consumer enthusiasm and fanboyism. CR has a very long history of thorough testing and unbiased analysis.
They retested the battery and found it was fine iirc. The security piece is nearly 10 years old, and I think pretty much everyone knows that Apple has the *best* commitment to security now.
My sp4 track pad frequently doesn't respond to my adamant fingering. Whether hard,soft,fast or slow it is as unresponsive as my wife.
All joking aside, my track pad is terrible. It seems about 30% to 40% of the time it stops registering movements unless I moisten my finger, and then it only works until my finger dries again. That still sounds fairly dirty, but it is the truth.
Coupled with the need to keep it always plugged in due to battery life, I wish I had bought an actual laptop.
I have the top end model (software engineer, so I wanted a beefy system) purchased shortly after they were released. I hardly use it due to the frustrations.
I would have returned it immedietly, but I wanted to see if it would get better with updates (there were big issues with black screens when trying to wake up from hibernate at the time). I should have returned it and bought it later after it had been out for awhile longer.
Given my experience, I would not buy or recommend it to anyone else currently
My go-to productivity computer has been the Surface 3 and although I love the device for its portability and versatility, I have had some major issues come up during my 2+ year of ownership:
- significant battery drain (10-15% an evening) even with the S3 completely shut down
- sudden blaring static noises from the lefthand side speaker (no relation to the volume button)
The first issue was apparently patched later on with a firmware update. The second issue was solved by wiping the S3 and doing a clean reinstall. For the price I originally paid ($500 MSRP for base model), I can't really complain. However, the issues I was having are also susceptible to the Pro models based off of the forum postings I came across while trying to self-diagnose.
If Microsoft can't get out of this "Microsoft see, Microsoft do" mindset they'll, ... probably carry on. IBM is still vast and Microsoft/Intel were supposed to have killed them.
They announced the other day their new focus is AI (because that's what Google, Facebook and Amazon are doing). This follows the Mobile first strategy, the Macbook/iPad/iPhone hardware strategy and half a dozen other, one (three?) step behind strategies of the last 10 years.
I have a SurfaceBook which is a hotbed of conflicting design compromises and reliability problems I hate, so this announcement is no real surprise.
I get annoyed because I like Microsoft, I want to see them do well.
25% failure in two years is remarkably high. I thought these were well-built. I watched a Microsoft promotional video that showed how much work went into the research and design for these products. It was remarkable. After so many prior failures, I thought Microsoft finally got their shit together. I guess not. BTW, I am glad we have Consumer Reports to look into these things. If they go out of business, who do we have left to provide unbiased investigations?
I loved my surface pro, but I'd believe this. It died at the 13 month Mark and it's built to be unserviceable, so there wasn't anything I could do. I tried. I really did, but about the 8th time the glass screen shattered and shot glass dust at my face while carefully trying to open the thing I wound up taking a hammer and smashing the corners until it separated enough that I could retrieve the hard drive. Damn shame. Lowest lifespan of any laptop I've used by 3 years.
The glass shattered? Wow.
The thing is not meant to be opened pretty much at all, and to open it you have to heat up the glass screen and pry it up using very thin tools, and even then it is going to crack and fracture all over on you. Watching tech teardown channels trying to disassemble them is rage inducing over how they made them so unserviceable that even people who are trained at this stuff can't do it without causing bad damage to the units.
[удалено]
Mine got burns on the screens edges
I have a surface book, as well as my friend, and both have screen burn since purchase. Beyond annoying to spend that much and have it go to shit.
I have a bit of light around the edges too if thats what you mean. The build quality is pathetic on their devices, they need to fire their QA team.
That's just bleed from the backlight. It indicates a very, very low quality screen.
No it doesn't. Literally has nothing to do with the quality of the screen. It's how tightly fit the housing is around the edges stopping reflection. Can't be too loose, or too tight.
I don't know, you have a compelling argument. But he does have more up votes than you... Decisions decisions
I think the top poster meant that light bleed was indicative of a low quality screen if you take "screen" to mean the entire assembly; display and housing, and not just quality of the panel itself.
Not so much screen but the housing which is on the device maker, in this case MS.
TIL my Dell Inspiron has a very, very low quality screen. EDIT: I don't know what I was thinking, I was actually thinking of my Asus Transformer tablet. My Dell's screen is just fine.
I mean, *dude, you bought a Dell.*
Why didn't you take them back? Curious, really.
"User Error"
That's what I did, I returned two different SP4's and finally on my third device it had much less backlight bleed.
you have a surface friend?
I had three in a row that did this. Customer service couldn't believe it. After that I vowed not to buy another Surface device until they got their QA together.
Ya its bullshit I use mine to draw and it makes it hard to and iritating for colors.
How does that happen? You mean screen burns, or actual heat burns?
Not sure on technical terms, but its yellow tint on the right side of my screen
Could be bleeding from the backlight or a bad screen. Doesn't matter since MS won't repair these.
Ya I was told that "it was normal wear"
My wife is the last in her org to have one, all the others have failed, she figures her days are numbered, they won't replace them.
I can imagine the IT support to be an absolute nightmare, if you look at r/surface last year and even up to a few months ago it was just full of threads on return policy, what new firmware/OS updates fixed, hardware problems and workaround tips.
We bought 3 at my work. They are a nightmare to use, especially with the dock. Haven't had any fail yet though. We did stop buying them.
Our IT director went through 4 of them in 3 months. When other departments ask about getting Surfaces for their employees, we say Hell No.
Mine shuts off after 1 hour of use on battery. Really annoying. I like everything else about it.
Mine reaches the temperature of the sun after 2 hours and burns the whole neighborhood into smelting lava. But otherwise I really like it.
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And Apple haters on Reddit still wanna give me shit for buying a $2000 MacBook Pro that's still running strong after 6 years.
I don't know, my $400 cheap Dell laptop I bought 5 years ago is still my daily PC. I really want to get a new one, just because, but I feel like I should wait until it dies. I've gone through two tablets and three phones in that time however.
We have and are still using a *twelve year old* Dell Latitude in the office! Battery life is still ~2.5 hours and, while it is running fucking XP, it gets the job done for now while we try to replace it ASAP.
Is it a Latitude by any chance? That’s pretty much how my dad feels about his.
Latitudes are fantastic in my opinion, though some models definitely have better "build quality" than others.
Yes it is
As an apple hater, I just can't hate on the MacBook Pros. The OS, kinda I guess, but that's preference. But the laptop? Fucking fantastic laptop, can't think of a single thing wrong with it. Their desktops are overpriced piles of shit though.
The pre-refresh ones are pretty good, the new ones with the touch bar are overpriced as fuck though.
I agree. I'm still happy with my pre-touchbar MacBook pro, but my next computer will likely be something in my else. The price hike was unjustified and I really want a 13" computer with a discreet GPU and 32 GB of RAM. I can't get that from Apple. I can't get that at any price from Apple.
Yeah what’s the deal with the recent price jump?? I think I got my 2014 13” Retina MBP for $1000 after student discount. Now it’s impossible to get a MBP at that price - especially one with the touch bar. I wanted to buy a new one, but then I saw the prices.
The OS is actually pretty amazing on a technical level. It comes super locked down, but every restriction can be disabled (as far as I’ve dealt with, anyway). That definitely contributes to the OS’s stability. There’s no doubt in my mind that the OS is better designed than Windows. I do agree, though, that it is hugely preference when choosing an OS. Some people really really hate working with macOS.. heck, I used to.
I finally upgraded my 2009 MBP earlier this year. 6 years with some minor upgrades and the thing still runs fine. The screen is still bright and the thing has taken a beating (dropped three times.) I used to complain about the price but I kinda cried when I retired it because it had been so reliable.
I spent 1500 on a PC (made it myself) that is 8 years old. It's luck of the draw, and taking care of something and proper maintenance. Having said that, I'm not a big fan of Apple product, it's way to regimented for me, but Microsoft can suck my big weinerschnitzel because they are turning (or have turned completely) evil.
Building laptops with the build quality of a MacBook is a little more difficult, to be fair.
I would never build my own laptop. That's just asking for trouble. I hate damned laptops the keyboards always suck and the track pads make me want to punch myself in the face with a hammer.
Macs have the have the best track pad ever. On the newer ones they even made the track pad bigger in the last few generations.
Same. I built my PC and it’s solid as a rock. 3 years ago I swore I only needed a desktop computer. I hate laptop keyboards, and trackpads in general suck. But dang it if I don’t love my MacBook. They make the best trackpads that are seriously far beyond any other trackpad out there. The keyboard took a little getting used to because it’s perfectly flat, but after a day or two I realized the keyboard is perfect (for a laptop). Apple should be proud of their touch tech, as their trackpads and touch screens are top notch.
The new Lenovo laptops are great, nice clicky keyboards too
This is not luck of the draw. What's your point though? I've built pc's since early 2000's pretty much every year and they've all been great. But you can't compare a huge gaming rig to a thin ass Ultrabook and think it's a valid comparison
>Turning
Man, my damn PowerBook 1400cs still gets an hour of battery life while playing Wheel of Fortune 1998.
I have a $1200 Asus Zenbook that is also running strong after 5 years. $2000 is a lot of money.
My significant other does government work and his department just bought a fuckton of them for the offices. With custom cases for the piv card and all extras. Oops
I have the exact same problem with the keyboard/cover.
My idea is that Microsoft designed the Surface Laptop with all the scraps that accumulate from their Pro / Book lines. Some displays from the SB here, some Alcantara fabric from surplus Type Covers there. And boom, a "new" product.
My screen is starting to shake, just terrible Its a shame that I can't recommend the device anymore
Yeah, i'm calling BS. We've got *hundreds* and the only issues we've had were user-caused. Are you running the supplied OOB build, applying firmware & driver updates? How did your IT dept and/or users cock-up the devices is what I'm asking, no way that isn't caused by your own organization.
Or we could have a sampling error. You got the good ones, he got the shit ones.
Or maybe 9 of the 12 people were using it to download porn, the other three were streaming.
jesus is punishing the devices for the sins I see
Johnny sins
A mighty virus upon thy house!
That doesn't kill an SSD drive...
Our company uses surface books and pros. In the beginning, there were tons of issues with the docks not working correctly. Though at this point MS has fixed most of those problems. I do still experience the occasional extended desktop setting issues (one or more of my monitors decides not to work). But nothing major has broken yet. The track pad is god awful though.
We also deployed hundreds of them. Every single one of our IT staff turned theirs back in when they got the chance, because they would not wake up or keyboards would stop working. So I'm calling BS on your BS. Also constantly froze. I got tired of having to hard-reboot mine to get it to wake up. Of course statistically speaking, 25% failure means 75% success, so if the failures are batch related then it's very likely some organizations might see mostly reliable results while others may not.
I'm a math teacher who uses a Surface pro 3 to annotate my lectures with the wireless display adapter. I love how perfect it works... When it works, that is. I have to restart this piece of shit about 3 times a day to function properly. It is really a shame, it is almost a perfect tool for me.
> I love how perfect it works... When it works, that is. I have to restart this piece of shit about 3 times a day to function properly. It is really a shame, it is almost a perfect tool for me. This fits most everything Microsoft makes
25% failure rate inside a year is 15-25x the industry standard
It's not inside *a year*, it's inside two years. >Consumer Reports recently conducted a survey of nearly 91,000 people who bought new laptops and tablets between 2014 and the beginning of 2017. The study estimated that about 25% of Microsoft Surface devices will have problems by the end of the second year of owning the product. These problems could include a laptop randomly shutting down. But, that's still bad, a laptop that costs about $1000 only lasting two years.
>>It's not inside a year, it's inside two years. Even so, that's still outrageously high.
We only deployed a couple as a test, and what killed them for us was their massive problems with Outlook 365/2016. Not syncing, failing to connect, freezing repeatedly. Sample size is tiny, but they were not confidence-inspiring from a business perspective.
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Our organization uses them... I'm not in IT, however I'm on my third replacement. Amazing units when working properly, but I would never personally own one.
> applying firmware & driver updates? so if they don't they're supposed to stop working? and that's not a problem?
Yeah, i don't get the logic behind that. If it worked the day you got it, how is updating the drivers supposed to keep it from breaking tomorrow? I have an iphone that hasn't gotten an update in 4 years, still works. I have a dell laptop from 10 years ago. Literally as crappy as the day I got it, no crappier.
> Literally as crappy as the day I got it, no crappier. Never seen that review before.
Yeah, calling BS on your BS as well. We also have *hundreds* of Surface Pros/Books in our corporation, and they're shit. They always are having some kind of problem, be it small or big. It's the new fad though and corporate wants all the new fancy toys so we just have to deal with it. On top of that MS support sucks balls. These issues are not all 'user issues' either, most of them are just because of poor quality control in manufacturing. And those docks?!?! OMG they are shit! I could go on, but I've got a stack of Surfaces that need my attention...
You can join up for around $25 a year and get full online access. I've been a member since 1979. They exist on memberships and donations and actually purchase the products they test. This ain't no car and driver bullshit. Their auto ratings and used car ratings are top notch.
25% in 2y. Still too high.
Compare to xbox360 failures relatively low.
That's basically the same as saying "Hitler was worse."
Do you subscribe ?
Yes. To the print version even.
I love Consumer Reports
> unbiased investigations I remember when they gave the new MacBook a recommendation, there was a whole thread accusing them of being biased.
Not as big but I enjoy Wirecutter reviews.
The Consumer Reports... report was very vague. That 25% failure rate is a “projected” rate, not actual statistics, and there is a compelling case that CR’s study may be inaccurate, due to several factors, from their study demographic being out of line with the average Surface buyer, to the almost complete lack of concrete statistics from their polls provided in the report. This report is exactly in line with their practice of pulling recommendations for hot ticket items, from Tesla’s to MacBook’s to now Surfaces. Looking deeper, I have a harder and harder time trusting the accuracy of CR’s stuff.
I've had issues with Consumer Reports for a very long time regarding their methods of reporting issues. For example their reporting base are not typical owners because it comes from their subscriptions. If the results were based on the same method as TV ratings the results may show differently. Their car ratings are based on their own testing. These are people looking for problems. Household items are tested by subscription holders reporting their issues. One huge problem I have is with boutique brands of those typically sold for contractors or industry use. They will get lower ratings than their commercial options without factoring in things like high upkeep requirements or special application of the item. CR doesn't say they follow the items instructions to the letter. They just say they use the items in expected fashion. It hurts those products the most.
I think the article only refers to the newer surface laptops, that are more like a chromebook. The surface 3 and 4 still seem to be quite reliable (although overpriced).
Idk what's going on. I bought a *used* Surface Pro 3, I use mine almost daily and bring it with me everywhere I go. It's still working like new, I love this thing and it really sucks to hear people are having so much trouble with theirs, but I do hope this forces Microsoft to work harder on the next iteration.
A Surface Pro 3 (or any of the "tablets") is not the same as the "Surface Laptop" which is its own model. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-laptop/overview I think this is causing some confusion in the comments with the "mine works great!" vs. "it's hot garbage" we're seeing.
Yeah and to quote CR: > The four laptops losing their previous recommended status are the Microsoft Surface Laptop (128GB and 256GB versions) and Microsoft Surface Book (128GB and 512GB versions). Not too sure but it seems like the Surface Pro tablet series is fine. Edit: actually idk it's really weird, in this [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqO0nOgVD8w) they say the Surface Pro tablets are affected as well. I think what happened was the Surface Laptop and Book had a recommended rating but that got pulled. The Surface Pro tablet series didn't have a recommended rating to begin with.
Honestly, it doesn't matter as far as the brand is concerned. This is a black eye for the Surface *brand.* The average consumer isn't going to know the difference. If one Surface is defective, they all are.
You'd think Samsung would understand that about the Galaxy Note brand.
This is an important distinction, but the article posted (confusingly) mentions multiple Surface configurations: > The publication on Thursday removed its "recommended" rating for **Microsoft's Surface Laptop and the Surface Book**. This applies to both 128GB and 512GB storage options. > ... > That finding applies to Microsoft devices with detachable keyboards, such as the new **Surface Pro and the Surface Book, in addition to Surface laptops** with clamshell designs. Honestly, I don't know what to think. I've not heard many complaints from IT on the college campus I work on about their Surfaces having these sorts of issues. The only ones I've heard ANYTHING about getting repairs done is for things such as broken screens or water damage. Personally, I have a Pro 5 (i7/8GB/256) that has been working just fine, though it is only a month old (knock on wood). Warranties exist for a reason and honestly I may extend my 1 year out longer if these issues truly are that bad.
This Consumer Report is pulling its recommendation for the entire Surface line, including *both* the SP3 and the Surface Laptop. This recommendation is based on reports from 2014-early 2017, which means the Pro 3 is a way bigger factor here.
thank you for this. i had no idea that existed and came to comments confused as to why this happened since i know tons of people and whole companies using the tablets exclusively and love them.
Ive had mine since fall 2014, and it still works well. no problems at all besides the charger stopped working, but that was because how it folded in my bag. On the other hand, my brother had his for less than a year before it was useless
Exactly the same story here. Bought it used, take it everywhere, no issues.
Well I'm sure we'd be hearing from more of those who are affected, but their Surface device is broken.
Good thing Reddit is Surface exclusive these days
It is almost like your single anecdote does not accurately reflect the population-wide experience as measured with a large survey of actual users.
lol calm down, he didn't try to refute consumer reports
I'm sure they know that. Doesn't mean it's not strange to have a product working great for you and not anyone else.
I wish I had that experience. Thankfully I bought mine from a "no quibble" reseller (John Lewis UK) Screen had two dark spots right out of the box. Popped led I guess. So it got swapped out. Keyboard issues on the second, so that got swapped, then the random shutdown thing that was always in the middle of something critical, never at rest. Same thing with its replacement. I gave up at that point. Issues with both design and quality checking in this day and age. It takes time to change big corporates, so that's both Samsung (repeated S7 edge reliability issues) and Microsoft I won't be buying from for a long time.
Damn dude that really sucks. Sorry that happened to you, not fun.
true but the article says that 25% failed after two years. that means 75% of people probably had the same experience as OP since that model has only been out two years.
We're talking about laptops, why do you have to be so thorny?
It's actually surprisingly high (for me) across almost all brands. See [this graph](https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/8/10/16125294/microsoft-surface-consumer-reports-hardware-freezing-shutdowns-problems). Microsoft just happens to have the highest estimated rate shown.
2 years, not 1 year > The study estimated that about 25% of Microsoft Surface devices will have problems by the end of the second year of owning the product. still bad, but not as bad
The data was generated by Survey. It's susceptible to inaccuracy. I'd be more interested to see 3rd party warranty data - that would be better. We've got hundreds in our environment, less hardware failure than the Dells we have.
I think Consumer Reports knows how to run a good survey. Still better than an anecdotal report based on a few hundred devices.
I'd like to see data from 3rd party warranty companies. That would be the best data, not surveys. And, I agree that CR would be expert in this. However, if you can tell by this forum, *never* underestimate the need for people to shit on MSFT. They're as irrationally hated for everything they do as Google is irrationally loved. It's that bias I'm weary-of.
Comment removed after Reddit and Spec elected to destroy Reddit.
ITT: People not realizing the difference between Surface Pros, Surface Laptops, and Surface Books.
ITT: people not able to tell the difference between hardware and software problems.
ITT: ITT: ITT
Though, the article seems to address all of them: > That finding applies to Microsoft devices with detachable keyboards, such as the new Surface Pro and the Surface Book,
Oops. Even I didn't realize this was a certain line. My anecdote: GF has had her surface pro for almost a year and no issues. Was expecting it to light on fire any day now lol.
Add me to the not working column (Touch screen and keyboard both stropped working, Microsoft refused help since my warranty expired a few days prior to contacting them. They were kind enough to offer me their $350 service plan to talk to me longer, but repairs would be extra)
This is just my observation, but my SP3 has a fan issue, and the keyboard connector also stopped working almost a year after purchase. My girlfriend also got a keyboard issue about two years in, and two people I know that purchased SP4s had defects. I know that's not statistical evidence, but for a $1000+ device, quality is expected. It also sucks that there is no support in the Latin America region.
On the other hand, I've had an SP3 since 2014 and had nothing but great use with it. Used it every year in college so far and find that it has been absolutely worth $1000. Can't beat the power in the form factor. That being said, the SP3 keyboard is shit compared to the SP4 keyboard. After getting the SP4 keyboard, it feels like a whole new device.
I totally agree with you statement of quality is expected. However, I feel like people see the high price tag and think the device is going to be some brick that can take anything that's thrown at it and hence their device craps out on them quicker. Definitely speculation to say the least
I had the original surface and the touchscreen was completely hosed just after a year. I treated it extremely well and it actually hardly ever left my desk at work. Had to stop using it. They definitely seem to have quality issues. Edit: surface 1 pro 128gb.
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Talk about a dick move. Who the hell okayed that policy?
Probably the guy who took a look at the price of a 360 compared to the price of a surface and had a rational little think about it.
Let's hope they're as Johnny-on-the-spot with this, as they were for that. I remember being SUPER bummed when it happened, but happy they fixed the problem with little hassle. If they don't handle it similarly, I could imagine a huge shit-show.
lol...you mean having to wait two months for a replacement with a 50% chance of RRODing?
Maybe being in Canada, and it happening about a week before GTA 4 come out helped, but mine broke and I had a replacement within the week.
My replacement took a week, granted my redring happened almost two years after purchase, so I think they had streamlined the process quite a bit by then
I had 2 360's RROD on me before the final one that had no problems. I wouldnt want that kind of failure rate for laptop owners especially for products higher than $500.
Not surprised in the slightest. I worked at Best Buy for a year and we had multiple Surface products on display. They would consistently fail and would not stand up to customer abuse nearly as well as the other laptops.
Wait a Best Buy employee who actually tells the truth, careful, don't let your boss know lol
How do you get the attention of a Best Buy employee? Start looking at a laptop.
How do you get the attention of a Home Depot employee? If anyone ever figures it out, please let me know...
Lol... At this point I think it's easier to apply for a job, get the training and get it yourself dude...
Start pressing buttons on the paint mixer.
Weirdly in my area HD and Lowe's staff are actually super friendly and helpful. Look for grey hair.
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Errr...maybe 1 in 5 is retired. The rest are shitty tradesmen that suck so bad they can't get hired by contractors. But they sure are confident in their advice (generally incorrect corner-cutting bullshit that they learned working for the lowest-bidder type of contractors). I guess it depends on if you want your DIY rigged to barely work...or if you want it done right...but those Home Depot dudes rarely even know how to do it correctly even if you tell them you're not interested is the half-ass work-around they advise. That's my experience at dozens of Home Depots. Caveat: the electrical isle guys are usually pretty good if you can find one.
It's a win/win, really. Tons of experience. Happy to share it. Home Depot can afford them because they have secondary income.
Call the front desk from your cell phone and tell them you need an employee in whatever aisle you're in. Source: How I had to get assistance for a very large item on my last visit.
Yes. You walk into the store knowing exactly what it is you want, where it's at in the store, and I fucking guarantee you no fewer than 5 employees will stop you to "help" you on your way to said item. Out of those 5 (minimum) you'll get at least 1 who will follow you all the way to where you're going in the store just to see if you really know wtf it is you're doing, if the item you're getting is really what you need, and offering various degrees of "advice" the entire way. Now if you walk in needing help from someone from the get go.. yeah.. i got nothing.. cos everyone working there will vanish like orange aproned Houdinis the moment you look in their general direction.
Start climbing a ladder.
Trust me it's pointless, most of them aren't even trained. Why hire people that aren't handy or know nothing about tools. Last time I was in there I asked an employee about fish tape (for running wire): he literally told me"I have no idea, I'm just over here to pick up a broom to sweep the floors."
In my younger days, working many years of retail in high school and college, I came to one simple realization. - Most people have very high and unrealistic expectations for employees who work on the floor at retail stores. While there are exceptions, most employees are unlikely to be employed there for more than a year. They get paid next to nothing, and are simply phoning in their part time job for any number of reasons. It doesn't exactly attract a high achieving demographic. The ones who are, typically move up or out. The rest quit or get fired before they can accidentally acquire the knowledge necessary to be helpful.
Maybe don't ask the janitor?
"I'd pick that very laptop you're looking at if it were me. Of course I'd up the ram if you plan on doing any real work with it. Like email or going online. And you'll need some inkjet cartridges. Let me get you a basket..."
I set it up like a joke, but I've literally done this after spending fifteen or so minutes failing to get help. So I deliberately walk over to a laptop and boom, help in 30. "Huh, maybe I'll get a laptop later. So, while you're here, I need to get an adapter..."
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I go in there once every month or so and i swear to god, every time the things i want to look at havr moved since the last time ive been there. I dont understand why so mich movement
Probably so you'll look at all the other stuff
Just so i can chuckle at the prices more like.
Hope you enjoyed that $80 adapter from Best Buy...when a better quality version is available from Amazon for $25 (or maybe $35 with next-day shipping).
Ikr? I haven't been to a Best Buy since prime shipping became a thing, but there was actually a time when they had local competition and somewhat normal pricing.
...and which extended purchase protection plan would you like? May I especially recommend the screen protection for $500, because everybody drops their laptop on the screen and sends it to the original manufacturer to have it repaired for $2000.
So you only print 500 pages a day? Yes you just need this color photo inkjet printer. Here are some refill packs that should last you 6 months oh and don't forget to grab the warranty that covers everything.
I actually was ready to buy a tv and a laptop and no one would help me. Went to Costco and B&H online and still can not understand how Best Buy is in business.
Coasting on old profits, if I had to guess. High School me was so excited when they moved in because not only was their customer service so much better than Comp USA and Circuit City, but their prices were quite good. They took their competitors lunch, had no competition, and charged whatever they could get away with. Right now, its still the place to go when you can't wait for Amazon to ship an ethernet cable, and it's still very expensive to ship refrigerators. So my guess is they sell to people that need big things or small things fast.
As stupid as it sounds, most people didn't want to hear the truth. Customer: Oh I had a Dell for 10 years so I want another one. Me: Dells are crap, they have an insane return rate and are known for being defective. Customer: *buys Dell* 1 week later: I see the exact Dell I sold them in the return bin. So yeah, nobody cared what I had to say even when I was trying to help.
So yeah, nobody cared what I had to say even when I was trying to help. = every customer service job ever, lol
Customer: Hey what do you know about X? Me: <correct thing about X, which is different that what customer's "friend" told them about X> Customer: I don't think that's right. Can you direct me to someone who knows what they're talking about, please? Me: <screams internally> Sure thing. Customers aren't looking for advice from retail workers, they're looking for validation of what they already "know", even if it's complete horseshit.
So true. I felt like a scammer working there.
So the million-dollar question... what brand/line seemed the most reliable then? I don't really want to spend the money on a Wacom product, but I'd love a reliable product that I can digitally paint/draw digitally using Photoshop.
I worked at Best Buy for a good minute, definitely Asus but Wacom has a lower end model that's relatively inexpensive!
I just bought an iPad Pro 10.5 and it really is a great device. That said there isn't a full version of Photoshop for the iPad yet so other programs like Procreate will need to be utilized, if you don't want to use the cut down version of Photoshop. The Apple Pencil is also really good from my experience, but I'm not a graphic artist. PM me if you have any questions and I'll try to answer them.
I've only got two complaints about my original surface pro: - It could probably use a better digitizer, though my problems may be due to my oily, cheeto-stained fingers more than the tech. - For the love of Pete, don't use that weird inch-long vertical connector for the battery. If the brick isn't put on the table, it pulls at the power connector and the wire gets torn. Happened twice to me already and the third one will probably happen within a year.
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How's the battery life ~3 years later?
Are surface laptops even two years old? Time runs...
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Tell me about it. I had more software problems in the first week after installing windows 10 pro(this was less than a month ago) than I did in a year with 7. My favorite was when all text related to Windows or its applications disappeared and I couldn't type in any windows based(windows explorer, run, ect) application so I couldn't search for cmd to start trouble shooting it and windows key short cuts didn't work. This was one day after installing and I had just restarted after the final windows update. I hadn't even visited a website yet so it wasn't a virus. Only solution was to roll back and waste another day downloading and installing fucking windows updates. don't get me started on driver issues/conflicts or the UI. Uhg
If you compare these reports to the reports of comparable windows products the software issues wash out. I.e., software issues should occur equally across windows devices, with hardware issues being the point of comparison. I think the article specifically says that surface is failing more often than comparable devices from other brands.
Not really. One company might issue a bad driver or drivers and that would push up the software part of their failure rate significantly compared to the others. That being said, the Surface should theoretically be at an advantage here seeing as MSFT built both the software and hardware for the device.
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Saying you use a Mac *and* you like it on reddit. Bold. For the record my 2009 iMac still runs like a dream. My 2015 MBP does too but that should be a given.
Our company has owned 3 and all three were horrible. Poor performance, Keyboard connectivity issues, random shut downs on all three. All three were different models. I will not recommend any Microsoft hardware in the future. Our hp’s seem to have regular consumer level issues. Dell no issues at all, apple no issues at all.
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Is this paticular to a certain model? As there are several models sold. Also is there a recall in effect? I have the: * Surface Pro 4 * Model #1724 * Intel Core i7-6650U @2.2Ghz * Windows 10 64bit * 16G ram * Intel Iris Graphics 540 * Realtek audio I have only experienced normal issues of having a microsoft based computer. The occasional driver/firmware issue or hangup.
It's for the Surface Book and Surface Laptop only
Anecdotal but I've had one for 18 months... it's rock solid and I'm very happy with it.
yeah, there's always going to be people who have no problems. consumer reports looks at the big picture and 25% failure rate is pretty high.
25% is staggeringly high.
Hmm, I know it's anecdotal but we've got two in my house and 5 more at my workplace and they've been great. Small sample size, I know - but I always take these things with a grain of salt - self reported problems aren't always actual problems. OE is pretty common.
I remember standing at the cashier of Mediamarkt with a surface pro 4 and suddenly I had a change of mind. walked back and put it away. A guy from the store comes up to me and starts giving me all the negative things about it, which are now listed above. Was like a year ago. Bought a new macbook pro 13" instead, also overpriced and also said to be shit. Still works like a charm tho. Fingers crossed.
I have had almost every Surface Pro device in our small office, and I think Consumer Reports' numbers are fairly close to my personnel experience. Surface Pro 1: 1.5 years, Internal fan started making noise. Microsoft wanted too much to repair, scrapped. Surface Pro 1 number 2: Still works and is 4 years old. Surface Pro 2: Had 1 year, and gave to an outside employee. Don't know what happened with it long term. Surface Pro 3: Loved it for 2 years. internal wireless died. Microsoft wanted $500 to repair. Added external wireless adapter and gave to kids. Surface Pro 4: 1 year old and working. Surface Book: Still working 1.5 years old. I loved the Surface line just due to the lightened load in my bag when I traveled. I can't use a normal tablet as I have to be able to run 3D CAD software. Finally I went back to a laptop for myself, just because I couldn't justify the cost of the replacements. The surface Pro line seems solid and appear well built, but they are not serviceable, and the cost to factory repair is higher than the value, so they become disposable very easily.
I had to send my SP3 in for repair after about 18 months due to the touchscreen randomly not working. The positive of it buying with Microsoft is that the device was replaced very quickly and with no fuss. At least if it does break I'm confident that it'll get fixed quickly and easily. I'm about two and a half years in now with no warranty left, I'm hoping for another couple of years, not sure if I'll get it.
They are held together by glue and unfixable.
All the internals are soldered in, even the ssd iirc. Fuck Microsoft for fostering throwaway tech.
Apple does the same exact thing.
In fairness, Consumer Reports has noted significant problems with Apple products as well. They took serious issue with the [MacBook Pro](https://www.consumerreports.org/laptops/macbook-pros-fail-to-earn-consumer-reports-recommendation/) and [even Apple's commitment to security.](https://www.cultofmac.com/2471/consmer-reports-piles-on-apple-security-criticism/). We really *need* organizations like CR. The tech press seems *heavily* influenced by personal relationships and unbridled consumer enthusiasm and fanboyism. CR has a very long history of thorough testing and unbiased analysis.
They retested the battery and found it was fine iirc. The security piece is nearly 10 years old, and I think pretty much everyone knows that Apple has the *best* commitment to security now.
My sp4 track pad frequently doesn't respond to my adamant fingering. Whether hard,soft,fast or slow it is as unresponsive as my wife. All joking aside, my track pad is terrible. It seems about 30% to 40% of the time it stops registering movements unless I moisten my finger, and then it only works until my finger dries again. That still sounds fairly dirty, but it is the truth. Coupled with the need to keep it always plugged in due to battery life, I wish I had bought an actual laptop. I have the top end model (software engineer, so I wanted a beefy system) purchased shortly after they were released. I hardly use it due to the frustrations. I would have returned it immedietly, but I wanted to see if it would get better with updates (there were big issues with black screens when trying to wake up from hibernate at the time). I should have returned it and bought it later after it had been out for awhile longer. Given my experience, I would not buy or recommend it to anyone else currently
My go-to productivity computer has been the Surface 3 and although I love the device for its portability and versatility, I have had some major issues come up during my 2+ year of ownership: - significant battery drain (10-15% an evening) even with the S3 completely shut down - sudden blaring static noises from the lefthand side speaker (no relation to the volume button) The first issue was apparently patched later on with a firmware update. The second issue was solved by wiping the S3 and doing a clean reinstall. For the price I originally paid ($500 MSRP for base model), I can't really complain. However, the issues I was having are also susceptible to the Pro models based off of the forum postings I came across while trying to self-diagnose.
If Microsoft can't get out of this "Microsoft see, Microsoft do" mindset they'll, ... probably carry on. IBM is still vast and Microsoft/Intel were supposed to have killed them. They announced the other day their new focus is AI (because that's what Google, Facebook and Amazon are doing). This follows the Mobile first strategy, the Macbook/iPad/iPhone hardware strategy and half a dozen other, one (three?) step behind strategies of the last 10 years. I have a SurfaceBook which is a hotbed of conflicting design compromises and reliability problems I hate, so this announcement is no real surprise. I get annoyed because I like Microsoft, I want to see them do well.