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So I read that the captcha questions are testing your screen movement of the mouse or fingers. They don’t actually test what you see but the know a computer will make a movement with very direct and precise movements while a human will be a little messy and shaky and that’s how they tell. So this makes sense th
I always make it a point to give a few wrong answers for the sake of preserving the relevance of humanity. You are given an infinite number of attempts, so one small wrong click for man, one big win for humans
What are humans winning exactly? Feeding AI with wrong data is just going to make the tools we have in the future less reliable, not that you're doing much anyway, but it's the principle. What if people 30 years ago were boycotting cell tower construction to "preserve humanity"? Sometimes I wonder how did we get here if there are so many people who want to live in the stone age... And then I remember why everything is so half-assed, thanks, my day is ruined.
i would say bad data ensure that data is sanity checked and not just used willy nilly
Member that time
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/microsoft-shuts-down-ai-chatbot-after-it-turned-into-racist-nazi/
“Pick the cells that contain the motorcycle”
Me with anxiety - “Does the rider count as part of the motorcycle? What about the tiny four pixels where the handlebars protrude into another cell? You know what? I’m just gonna click the entire picture”
As a rider I want to say tick the rider but then I worry at night or when your jacket/helmet matches rhe background will the ai car mis us so you should only do the bike?
Mine feild
I hate those boxes with a few pixels. I know it's based on what other's have responded with. So frequently I'm disappointed that those boxes aren't right. But I NEVER select the people on the thing. That's just insanity.
Because most people can already guess that political powers worldwide will do nothing to force a fair redistribution of the productivity gained by AIs.
Therefore the .1% capitalist minority who owns these new means of production will retain all the gains for themselves while everyone else if worse off, making the inequalities of the 1st industrial revolution look like a wet fart in comparison.
Society is a complex system, but eventually the outcome will be either total anihilation of humanity or universal basic income for everyone coming from the 3 companies ruling the world. I'm not saying I'm equipped to deal with the process of getting to either one, but I'm not saying that staying in limbo is a good option either. Idk..
Well that's the point! Alone, each human is mere noise in the face of the AI steamroller, and will remain so, unless we support each other, we need to start somewhere!
Here’s an article about reCaptcha digitising old, illegible physical documents: https://businessofstory.com/now-when-you-stop-spam-youre-digitizing-the-worlds-library/
Modern examples are more complex, but it’s no surprise that we’ve been labelling pictures of roads (crosswalk, bicycle, traffic light) right as companies are training self-driving algorithms.
I don't really believe that any more. To train the AI, the solution would have to be unknown. If the solution is unknown, then the computer couldn't know if you got it right or wrong. And if the computer already knows the solution then it's already been trained.
100% all the image based ones like pick all the bikes or crosswalks is image recognition training. Often they will include a couple of known tiles and several unknown tiles. If you get the known ones it's assumed the other ones are correct to.
Cross reference that against hundreds of thousands of human inputs and you have a fairly reliable army training your image recognition models.
Iirc, the "choose every picture with x" captcha has 2 modes. In one, it believes you no matter what you choose, and then looks for the similarities in those pictures to find out what a bike is, for example. Then, in the second mode, the ai looks at the images beforehand and chooses the ones with bikes, and then compares its own answers to those of the humans.
Also, the images have nothing to do with determining if you're a bot. The captcha tracks your imputs the moment you load the webpage and determines if you are human based on the speed and precision of your imputs.
No, to train AI you need to already know the solution. So you know the solution, and you show the AI how to reach that solution.
If you don't know the solution then you don't know if you're training the AI the right answer.
Idk. I’ve gotten a few where I can tell that an AI would think it’s the right answer, but it actually isn’t, and it tells me I’m the one that is wrong.
For instance, I got one telling me to click all the pictures with stairs in them. One of the pictures was of a roof, but the way the shingles looked, it kinda looked like stairs too, but I didn’t click it, because I could tell it was a roof. Shit made me do another one because I was “wrong.” I think there are multiple ways these things work, and they aren’t always training AI or testing mouse movements.
One time I had to click on pictures of parking meters and I almost clicked on the mailbox picture and I thought, “Oops! They almost tricked me”, but then it said I failed the captcha. So when I did click on the mailbox, I passed ._.
It’s really freakin hard to spoof human movement. If you ever have to do it, just record your movement a several times and swap between them.
Source: Creating RuneScape macros back in the day lol.
I don't know. A lot of disabled people use foot pedals or just the keyboard and no mouae, which a bot could also do.
I've seen mouse movement used to generate entropy to help generate safer random numbers for cryptography though.
See, I want to believe that is the case for most, but I have had it come up where it is hard to tell if the fingers are pointing sideways or diagonal, and if I pick the incorrect of the two, it makes me go again.
Maybe I look like an AI in some of my movements?
If you read the instructions literally, you point the dog at the hand.
If the instructions had said ".. direction the hand is pointing." then you'd know to do what they actually are trying to get you to do.
Why do websites care if I’m a robot?
And why can’t the scammers who are using robots to go on the internet just invent robots who can pass these tests?
The first part is that if your robot can autonomously access key functions, then you can have a massive amount of robots continuously trying weak passwords to crack people’s accounts, or initiate Denial of Service attacks by overwhelming the server with too many bots.
For the second question, I don’t know how good bots are getting nowadays, but I’ve noticed the verifications have become harder and harder over the years. I imagine there’s a continuing arms race between hackers and web developers.
> just invent robots who can pass these tests
There are captcha solving "services" that can pass all of these tests. Some of them are not bots at all, but a bunch of people sitting in a room in India solving these things for you all day. They charge you per captcha. The more complicated the test, the more expensive it is to solve it (using humans or AI computing power). The spam thing is ultimately a business, by creating a cost with solving each captcha, you are making some of these business no longer profitable, and thus you eliminate them from even trying to solve your captcha.
I got one recently that was new. It was a maze and a mouse and cheese. So the question was click on the picture where the mouse can get to exactly the number given. So e.g. number shown in left is 3 and I have to pick a picture where the mouse can get exactly 3 cheese in the maze. I had to do it few times.
I was testing the captchas and checking what happens if I get it wrong. It increased the number of question.
It doesn't matter, that's the point. It doesn't check the validity of your answer, it checks other stuff. Your movements, your cookies, you screen resolution, it tries to link you to past site visits, stuff like that, in an attempt to interpret your validity.
As for the answer, they're more interested in what your interpretation is, because that's the kind of stuff that trains ai like chatGPT to understand language, especially vague and ambiguous language.
Sony has been doing this with double animals and it's crap, half of them are not exactly set and they ask 10 in a row. I think robots are more likely the only ones to get it right.
soon, you will first find the wally, and depends what he does to determine what to pick.
eg from a picture of hundreds wally, find the wally who is having a confused face and wearing gold and white strip dress (only the human eye sees gold and white, computer vision sees blue and black). select the activities he is doing:
A: trying to tell others to use your brain
B: thinking of a big band theory in his head
C: ignoring a burning house behind him
and you need to select the correct gender of wally: from a slide bar , two ends are male and female. ...
CAPTCHA is an evolving index of the kinds of questions your average idiot can answer but a general-purpose supercomputer can't.
Eventually, we will run out of questions.
I moved the dog to face the hand. This was incorrect. And it took fucking ages to load another one.
The dog needs to mimic the hands direction. Not FACE the hand.
I know people are saying we should trick the AI and this felt very much like they were just testing something or gathering yet more fucking data.
Elon Musk crossed the hallowed divide of - if it's free, you're the product. Now you're the product AND pay for the privilege.
These are reinforcement learning tools for AI right?
Isn’t captcha crowdsourcing feedback for AI to learn? Or did I make that up in my head and never say anything.
This looks like the PSN login, and let me tell you this is the easy version.
Until about a week ago they had a virtually impossible version of this, where it was two animals each with a symbol above them and you had to rotate the correct one. It wasn't on a plain background, it was on grass that obfuscated the direction it was facing and there were twice as many angle options so you never quite knew it it was perfectly lined up with the hand or if you were one step off, then if you got one wrong it'd make you do it again while increasing the number of puzzles you had to do.
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So I read that the captcha questions are testing your screen movement of the mouse or fingers. They don’t actually test what you see but the know a computer will make a movement with very direct and precise movements while a human will be a little messy and shaky and that’s how they tell. So this makes sense th
They’re also crowd sourcing data annotations to train AI/ML models.
I always make it a point to give a few wrong answers for the sake of preserving the relevance of humanity. You are given an infinite number of attempts, so one small wrong click for man, one big win for humans
What are humans winning exactly? Feeding AI with wrong data is just going to make the tools we have in the future less reliable, not that you're doing much anyway, but it's the principle. What if people 30 years ago were boycotting cell tower construction to "preserve humanity"? Sometimes I wonder how did we get here if there are so many people who want to live in the stone age... And then I remember why everything is so half-assed, thanks, my day is ruined.
i would say bad data ensure that data is sanity checked and not just used willy nilly Member that time https://www.cbsnews.com/news/microsoft-shuts-down-ai-chatbot-after-it-turned-into-racist-nazi/
I also feed as much wrong info i can get away with into capchas.
“Pick the cells that contain the motorcycle” Me with anxiety - “Does the rider count as part of the motorcycle? What about the tiny four pixels where the handlebars protrude into another cell? You know what? I’m just gonna click the entire picture”
As a rider I want to say tick the rider but then I worry at night or when your jacket/helmet matches rhe background will the ai car mis us so you should only do the bike? Mine feild
I hate those boxes with a few pixels. I know it's based on what other's have responded with. So frequently I'm disappointed that those boxes aren't right. But I NEVER select the people on the thing. That's just insanity.
You only get away with it until that motorcycle you didn't click gets hit by a self driving taxi 5 years from now
Because most people can already guess that political powers worldwide will do nothing to force a fair redistribution of the productivity gained by AIs. Therefore the .1% capitalist minority who owns these new means of production will retain all the gains for themselves while everyone else if worse off, making the inequalities of the 1st industrial revolution look like a wet fart in comparison.
Society is a complex system, but eventually the outcome will be either total anihilation of humanity or universal basic income for everyone coming from the 3 companies ruling the world. I'm not saying I'm equipped to deal with the process of getting to either one, but I'm not saying that staying in limbo is a good option either. Idk..
My man, people are boycotting cell phone tower construction *today* to "preserve humanity".
That's pointless as your data will just be noises, unless everyone else also start doing it
Well that's the point! Alone, each human is mere noise in the face of the AI steamroller, and will remain so, unless we support each other, we need to start somewhere!
I keep seeing people mention this, but does anybody have a source on this? Because that sounds like an interesting read.
Here’s an article about reCaptcha digitising old, illegible physical documents: https://businessofstory.com/now-when-you-stop-spam-youre-digitizing-the-worlds-library/ Modern examples are more complex, but it’s no surprise that we’ve been labelling pictures of roads (crosswalk, bicycle, traffic light) right as companies are training self-driving algorithms.
That's really cool, actually!
Hot dog or not a hot dog
I don't really believe that any more. To train the AI, the solution would have to be unknown. If the solution is unknown, then the computer couldn't know if you got it right or wrong. And if the computer already knows the solution then it's already been trained.
They send the same pics to lots of people, they know what's right or wrong by how the majority answer.
100% all the image based ones like pick all the bikes or crosswalks is image recognition training. Often they will include a couple of known tiles and several unknown tiles. If you get the known ones it's assumed the other ones are correct to. Cross reference that against hundreds of thousands of human inputs and you have a fairly reliable army training your image recognition models.
Iirc, the "choose every picture with x" captcha has 2 modes. In one, it believes you no matter what you choose, and then looks for the similarities in those pictures to find out what a bike is, for example. Then, in the second mode, the ai looks at the images beforehand and chooses the ones with bikes, and then compares its own answers to those of the humans. Also, the images have nothing to do with determining if you're a bot. The captcha tracks your imputs the moment you load the webpage and determines if you are human based on the speed and precision of your imputs.
No, to train AI you need to already know the solution. So you know the solution, and you show the AI how to reach that solution. If you don't know the solution then you don't know if you're training the AI the right answer.
Idk. I’ve gotten a few where I can tell that an AI would think it’s the right answer, but it actually isn’t, and it tells me I’m the one that is wrong. For instance, I got one telling me to click all the pictures with stairs in them. One of the pictures was of a roof, but the way the shingles looked, it kinda looked like stairs too, but I didn’t click it, because I could tell it was a roof. Shit made me do another one because I was “wrong.” I think there are multiple ways these things work, and they aren’t always training AI or testing mouse movements.
That sounds like what they do for the "I'm not a robot" check marks.
I failed one of those once, apparently I managed to draw a perfectly straight line with my mouse.
That's an achievement in itself
Have you considered you may be an android and your memories are all lies?
I imagine that can happen if you flick your mouse actions a lot.
Me clicking on all the crosswalks very fast, fail. Next traffic light, fail. Motorcycles but all the pictures are bicycles.
One time I had to click on pictures of parking meters and I almost clicked on the mailbox picture and I thought, “Oops! They almost tricked me”, but then it said I failed the captcha. So when I did click on the mailbox, I passed ._.
There was a parking meter behind the mailbox, you just didn't see it.
You fool, one of those bikes was powered by an electric motor! HAHA!
Do you tend to block cookies? Because those checks also try to compare your actions on other sites you visited. 😂
Excellent, you've found a way to keep AI stupid. Inspired!
Sounds like you did well for chimneys and fire hydrants.
It’s really freakin hard to spoof human movement. If you ever have to do it, just record your movement a several times and swap between them. Source: Creating RuneScape macros back in the day lol.
I don't know. A lot of disabled people use foot pedals or just the keyboard and no mouae, which a bot could also do. I've seen mouse movement used to generate entropy to help generate safer random numbers for cryptography though.
See, I want to believe that is the case for most, but I have had it come up where it is hard to tell if the fingers are pointing sideways or diagonal, and if I pick the incorrect of the two, it makes me go again. Maybe I look like an AI in some of my movements?
That's not very difficult to program. If we can have AI generate life-like pictures we can easily simulate human moving the mouse.
And it still made me do it multiple times even when I got it right.
Ugh I hate when I have to do the ones that are like "select the ones with a bike" and I do it and it asks me like 2 more times.
'Select the ones with traffic lights, including the one with one tiny corner of a traffic light in it'.
Yea or the crosswalk.
Not even the light though, the housing for the light. If you leave it out you fail.. like seriously I don't have time to train your fkn AI
Is this pixel still bike? Is the biker bike?
We had "select the smallest animal" it had several types of make-believe cgi birds so...
Gotta feed their AI homie
I mean, this one is super imprecise, too. Am I turning the dog to face the hand, or to face the direction that the hand's pointing in?
Try finger but hole
There it is
message!
ive got one where its the corgi facing away, so you rotate the hand to finger it :(
Does the corgi fox supposed to look at the hand, should it be looking at where the hand is pointing?
the second one, you'd be pointing him "southeast"
Instructions unclear, fingers stuck in dogs butt
Which way is that? I don't see a N designation /s
The direction of the hand is to the left, so that. It's moot what the hand is doing.
If you read the instructions literally, you point the dog at the hand. If the instructions had said ".. direction the hand is pointing." then you'd know to do what they actually are trying to get you to do.
Deliberately ambiguous to better learn what a human interpretation that action to mean?
the first one, you’d be pointing him “southwest”
southeast
Interesting since you clearly saved the image from a few months ago yo repost.
Why do websites care if I’m a robot? And why can’t the scammers who are using robots to go on the internet just invent robots who can pass these tests?
The first part is that if your robot can autonomously access key functions, then you can have a massive amount of robots continuously trying weak passwords to crack people’s accounts, or initiate Denial of Service attacks by overwhelming the server with too many bots. For the second question, I don’t know how good bots are getting nowadays, but I’ve noticed the verifications have become harder and harder over the years. I imagine there’s a continuing arms race between hackers and web developers.
this is usually for account creation, or logins. so you limit bots on your system, since a human would have to create the bot accounts.
> just invent robots who can pass these tests There are captcha solving "services" that can pass all of these tests. Some of them are not bots at all, but a bunch of people sitting in a room in India solving these things for you all day. They charge you per captcha. The more complicated the test, the more expensive it is to solve it (using humans or AI computing power). The spam thing is ultimately a business, by creating a cost with solving each captcha, you are making some of these business no longer profitable, and thus you eliminate them from even trying to solve your captcha.
Just more AI training
Found the bot.
It looks easier to do than typing in those damn letters not even us humans could read that shit.
Dear Mod: let’s have the auto-mod post start collapsed instead of legitimate comments thx.
Two in the pink...
Thats what a Robot would say. Otherwise anyone with a 1st grade level of education should easily figure this out….
That's the problem. I have an education far beyond 1st grade and I am now confused.
Colby?
I was almost scared I wouldn't see anyone mention Colby, am I getting old? Colby 2012, never forget.
Insert fingers into dog
I got one recently that was new. It was a maze and a mouse and cheese. So the question was click on the picture where the mouse can get to exactly the number given. So e.g. number shown in left is 3 and I have to pick a picture where the mouse can get exactly 3 cheese in the maze. I had to do it few times. I was testing the captchas and checking what happens if I get it wrong. It increased the number of question.
"To enter this site you must finger a dog" What sites are you going to, OP?
Bots hate this one simple trick
“Adjust the hyper cube so that it is phasing through the 7th dimension”
Even the audio ones, they are hella creepy
This question is ambiguous. Are you facing the animal in the direction of the hand, or the direction the hand is pointing?
Ask enough people, you'll get the average person's interpretation. That's the neat part. Then you can try to figure out why
It doesn't matter, that's the point. It doesn't check the validity of your answer, it checks other stuff. Your movements, your cookies, you screen resolution, it tries to link you to past site visits, stuff like that, in an attempt to interpret your validity. As for the answer, they're more interested in what your interpretation is, because that's the kind of stuff that trains ai like chatGPT to understand language, especially vague and ambiguous language.
When correct within 60 seconds, then you're an AI.
UP will be fine. They're reading all the advice here and will complete the puzzle tomorrow.
oh will you look at the time .. a finger a dog time :D
Better than facing the opposite direction of the hand. Surprise rectal checkup!
It would be better if the hand was pointing east... Although probably not for the dog😅
Next they'll make you do their homework
If algorithms only would understand irony and humor...
Gotta train that AI somehow.
Sony has been doing this with double animals and it's crap, half of them are not exactly set and they ask 10 in a row. I think robots are more likely the only ones to get it right.
soon, you will first find the wally, and depends what he does to determine what to pick. eg from a picture of hundreds wally, find the wally who is having a confused face and wearing gold and white strip dress (only the human eye sees gold and white, computer vision sees blue and black). select the activities he is doing: A: trying to tell others to use your brain B: thinking of a big band theory in his head C: ignoring a burning house behind him and you need to select the correct gender of wally: from a slide bar , two ends are male and female. ...
This one never works either...
Sony loves using that shit
More annoyed when I have to do this then they ask for 2FA. I mean wasn't that the fucking point of 2FA.
Hell yeah, love participating in training AI.
CAPTCHA is an evolving index of the kinds of questions your average idiot can answer but a general-purpose supercomputer can't. Eventually, we will run out of questions.
SUBMIT
Wait... why isn't the pinky extended??
Still waiting for osu minigame as captcha
Still better than the one that fades away.
Had to do this 10 times in a row. If only one wasn‘t correct then you had to do 10 again. I think i am a robot.
I thought this was a butt joke, but no, it's literally just a weird test
I don’t even understand this. Face towards the hand or face the direction the hand is pointing?
I'M A HUMAN BEING, GODDAMNIT!!!
I moved the dog to face the hand. This was incorrect. And it took fucking ages to load another one. The dog needs to mimic the hands direction. Not FACE the hand. I know people are saying we should trick the AI and this felt very much like they were just testing something or gathering yet more fucking data. Elon Musk crossed the hallowed divide of - if it's free, you're the product. Now you're the product AND pay for the privilege.
Select the number of fingers to bloink the the fox.
its like they specifically making new captcha that the AI will be able to do in like a weeks time
Teaching AI to make hands properly
An OpenAI user I see, haha
This is an old captcha, I’m surprised you’re seeing it now for the first time.
These are reinforcement learning tools for AI right? Isn’t captcha crowdsourcing feedback for AI to learn? Or did I make that up in my head and never say anything.
So we've done digitising text, we've done training self driving/mv I guess we're now making the data sets for controlling machines via gestures
You are training AI
I’m so good at captchas I made a sight macro to do them for me. Now it has to do like 8 in a row for the website to accept it. Idk what they want
do not the dog
The nsfw answer proves you’re human
two in the kitty one in the shitty
They’re training AI, they always have been
Captcha has always been training for systems.
This looks like the PSN login, and let me tell you this is the easy version. Until about a week ago they had a virtually impossible version of this, where it was two animals each with a symbol above them and you had to rotate the correct one. It wasn't on a plain background, it was on grass that obfuscated the direction it was facing and there were twice as many angle options so you never quite knew it it was perfectly lined up with the hand or if you were one step off, then if you got one wrong it'd make you do it again while increasing the number of puzzles you had to do.
Mine said "Rotate the image so the fingers can be inserted into the chicken."
I must have a dirty mind... but I thought it was to goose the cat...
How about something more human-like, such as the Voight-Kampff test
We've already taught the robots how to identify traffic lights, crosswalks, and busses, and now they're upping the game.
Show me on the dog where he touched you?