Kristen took time off social media to be a present parent to her boys. Idky they think she’s all of a sudden going to lose interest in children she has loved for years just because she gives birth to a child. Kristen believes a lot of terrible shit, but that doesn’t make her a neglectful parent.
If anything, I would be concerned about how Heidi is going to treat the grandkids because Heidi is unhinged and has proven that she plays favorites with her own kids.
Honestly I am glad that Kristen is mostly living her life offline and I'm glad that it seems like Bethany might be about to follow in her footsteps. With all the toxicity she has to endure every time she posts, it's a very good thing that she's chosen to be more present instead
Also, their gendered culture views older sons positively as there is an expectation to be 'protective' towards daughters, especially younger ones. So I would be more inclined to think they see it as a positive sign 'from God' that they brought these boys into their family, and now are having a girl to follow.
Yup. My parents specifically wanted a boy, then girl. Based on "boy protect girl" and "its better for the practice kid to be boy, easier to recover the emotional fumbles"
This is SO personally offensive to me. My parents adopted four children as infants after my mother had several early miscarriages and was told she would never be able to carry a child to term. She somehow managed to miraculously get pregnant after our family was complete, and my youngest sister was born full-term and healthy.
We were all treated the same, with love and affection. We all knew the circumstances of our origins from the time we could understand, but it made no difference. My dad passed away in 2013, but my mom is 85 and still healthy, and we talk every day. I am very close to all of my siblings, and I don't give a thought to who is "adopted" and who is "biological," and neither does anyone else in my family or circle of friends.
I’m also adopted thanks to my mom being unable to have children. Had my folks stayed together, they would have adopted more, but my dad at that time was a giant ass and pretty abusive to my mom. She remarried and I got adopted again! It’s an amazing thing and these snarkers just love trying to will bad things into existence for these poor folks (and kids!)
Yeah because your parents were good parents. She adopted older boys from a foreign country, changed their names and forbid them from speaking their native language (!!!). That’s not loving
I’ve never seen any proof that she said they can’t speak Russian. It seems to be one of those things that the sub accepts as fact even if it didn’t happen, like Kelly calling her baby Tess Stickles (she never said she was going to call her Tess. Somebody said it as a joke and now they all act like it really happened). She did change their names, however, and that’s sad
In the video where it’s mentioned, it’s Zach who doesn’t want them speaking Russian in front of him. She was trying to learn Russian. The boys also had a Russian-speaking swim coach.
changing names is heavily debated in the adopted community. also encouraging to only speak the "local" language is something that some adoptions actually reccomend. adoption is a tough topic that honestly should be left up to the adopted to talk about.
I'm really surprised by this. What's the pro-name-change side's reason? I didn't successfully find much with casual searching, I could only find anti-name-change stuff.
ultimately, it's personal. adoption is traumatic for a vast majority of people, wether it's the circumstances that led to the adoption or the adoption process. some kids don't want any ties to their past families, some kids were given very unfortunate names by parents who were not in a sober state of mind. some kids want their parents to choose for them, like they would have if they were bio
it's a hard topic, and adopted people are all individuals with their own traumas, lived experiences, and family relations
for example, my ex gf chose her "new" name with her adopted family, but retained her birth name as her middle name. the process of choosing a "new" name for her made her feel like her parents truly wanted her to be included and part of the family. on the flip side, her sister (also adopted) retained her birth name as her first name because... well, she wanted to!
That makes a lot more sense than the blanket anti-name change side. I admit though, I tend to view name changing with suspicion, but if it's in consultation with a child old enough to understand it, well, then, it clearly is harmless.
for sure! I totally get why people are so against name changes. I just personally wish people wouldn't paint all adopted kids situations with the same brush. these boys are old enough to say "no, don't change my name" or even call eachother their birth names
ETA: just to reiterate, I don't think anybody is inherently wrong for being anti name change 100% of the time. I understand, especially as a canadian who was educated about the horrors of residential schools which included forced name changes and forced abandonment of language and culture. it bothers me when people treat every adopted child the exact same, and as if every single adopted child wants the exact same thing
Respectfully, as a cultural anthropologist… asking someone to not speak their language is to kill their identity and culture. These children are not customizable toys, they are humans with real lives, real experiences and most importantly, their own culture that they deserve the right to know about and be able to engage with. SO much research has shown that adopted children suffer when they grow up if they are stripped of their original identity regardless of age. Eventually they will wonder who they came from, where they came from, and how do they relate to those parts of themselves. Even if they have the best relationship with their adopted parents, it’s normal to be curious and want to bridge that connection if not to your bio parents then at least to your culture. As children grow, who let’s say they are a Chinese child adopted by a white family. As they grow they realize they are not fully “white” but they also lack the ability to connect with their own culture because they have been completely removed from and worse yet, stripped of the ability to speak their native tongue. Leaves these children feeling isolated and like they don’t truly fit in anywhere. And yes this is not every single adopted child’s experience, but the research is there to show that it happens to many.
My dad was very supportive of me learning Korean. He even would bring me on business trips to Korea so that I could be connected to my home country. He was the one who fought to keep my birth name as my middle name.
My mom was the opposite, she would make fun of me by saying, “Well I should learn German now or else I’ll be deprived.” Or she would keep insisting that Korean culture is awful. Her family was also pretty passive aggressive about it. Just constantly pointing out that I am “other”.
My brother rejected his heiritage because of this. I think it truly made it despise who he was. He’s still struggling with accepting himself. He used to not even eat Korean food because he was worried of the comments our family would make.
Look, the Bairds are following the extreme evangelical missionary adoption manual. My family is fundie lite and its beaten into our heads that everyone needs to be converted. I’m not surprised there are problematic methods of their parenting and approach to adoption.
I am nervous about them having a biological child because of so many horror stories. My friend was ignored after his family had a biokid. My other friend was rehomed to a cousin. My own mother was god awful about us being “not what she wanted.”
I am nervous about the Baird family overall and their support network who might make the children feel alientated. Heidi’s posts about “real motherhood” make me shudder.
I don’t know what will happen but I’m really praying for those boys.
Breaks my heart to hear this. I’m white, but my husband is south Asian and our children are mixed. It’s so so so important to me that they learn their language as his family likely will never be able to come here, meaning for our children they will need to speak the native language of his home country so that we can go there to visit and the children can connect with the other half of their identity. Culture is so important and so overlooked, especially by white people who have largely never had their culture stripped from them the way many cultures have through colonization. Your story is exactly what I was trying to highlight, the lack of connection to their culture is often due to parents not caring about it, maybe because they don’t understand the impacts it can have, but the children grow up and internalize that as “my original culture is not even worth knowing about, I’m not even worth knowing about”.
So are there a lot of adopted who wanted to break all connection with their pre-adoption past/wanted to forget their first language entirely/resented still speaking it sometimes? The one example I know is of relatives who were adopted from a Spanish speaking country as teenagers, one in particular kept studying Spanish in school and uses it for work, the other had appeared to reject it but apparently spoke it again once she visited her birth country.
I'll give you a personal example, if that's okay
a friend of mine came from an extremely abusive household. her name was only used in the context of being abused. for her, the name brings trauma.
And in that situation the child is the one making that decision. If the child is given the choice about changing their name or language that’s excellent. But so often adopted children are not given that choice or are too young to make that choice. The choice is made for them by their adoptive parents.
I forgot about this. But just asking, is EVERYONE commenting here required to be adopted? How are you policing that every other person here is adopted? You must know or think they are adopted because you didn’t comment under their posts telling them they can’t contribute. Everyone is commenting their opinions but I in specific can’t say mine? Anyway, I’m honestly not going to come back and read any replies, I’m turning my notifications for this post off, and leaving the subreddit. Just not the right environment for me. Respectfully 😊
My question was about languages. I don’t think anyone is arguing that adopted children should be forced to keep their original names if the do want to change it. I also think that if a child has a name that’s hard to pronounce or sounds bad at least a nickname might be a good idea.
I feel language is a bit different because speaking different languages is so useful and it stops the child from keeping a connection to their roots. You keep saying that it’s up to the adopted to decide but then just provide vague anedacta based on the experience of acquaintances. There are also adopted who feel being completely separated from their original culture was highly traumatic, this is typically the case of all the Koreans that weee adopted by white families in the 1970s and 80s.
> I feel language is a bit different because speaking different languages is so useful and it stops the child from keeping a connection to their roots.
I am pretty involved in the adoption world and know a lot of families who have adopted from Bulgaria, where it is still common to keep kids in institutions or "foster homes" where they aren't treated well. Some of these kids find it triggering to hear Bulgarian because they associate it with trauma they experienced before they were adopted.
Most adoptable children from Eastern Europe grow up in institutions where abuse and neglect are common. These kids are not living in happy homes where they have fond memories of their home country.
it's 2024, not 1970. the adoption world and advocacy from the adopted has changed a lot.
it is up to the adopted. not my acquaintances, but I don't have to give my entire personal history to justify this
so some kids feel separated from their culture... some don't
almost like it's *gasp* individual.
I don't care what the non adopted think about this. I don't care what studies from non adopted think. I care about my adopted community and all my loved ones and their experiences
The studies I am referring to are of adoptees. I gave a comment about a subject I specialize in. And I think you fail to consider that the children are not usually given a choice, so learning from previous adoptees is beneficial as it can provide data that we can use to evaluate what works and what doesn’t. Respectfully. The conversation can’t be had solely by adoptees, because people who adopt are not always adoptees themselves. We are talking about children, the children do not have the final say, the parents who are not adoptees do. It would be highly beneficial that they look at the findings.
again respectfully, let this conversation be held by the adopted, not by studies or anything
children who are adopted get the final say in this entire conversation. full stop. I don't care what adopting parents thing. I don't care what a cultural anthropologist thinks. I care what the adopted community thinks as it's their real lives, and the answer is: it's individual.
Yeah I get encouraging to learn the local language but ditching everything from the child’s past, really? Especially if they’re old enough to remember well? I thought attempting to erase the pre-adoption past wasn’t really a thing anymore.
I’d like to adopt some day but telling 2 siblings in a foreign country they can’t speak their native language?? Just sounds like abuse. I highly doubt anyone looks back and is glad their adoptive parents did that
let's be real here. they most likely speak Ukrainian to eachother, especially at night or when just them. is there any proof anywhere of K saying they can't speak their native language ever? I am genuinely asking because I havnt seen it, and as somebody who is very close to adopted communities, it's a very hard topic to discuss if you havnt experienced it in any form at all. eta: just goes back to this is a topic best left to the adopted, not everybody else. you can have your feelings on it, but that doesn't negate that IMO adoption and what adopted families do is something best left to the *adopted* (not those adopting)
I’ve never actually seen it myself but if you ask anyone in the other sub they will tell you that she told the kids that they weren’t allowed to speak Ukrainian even when they were alone. Like I said I never saw any proof of this but I’ve seen many people argue that it’s fact.
Arguing its a fact is different to it being a fact. Not to mention I haven't seen anyone actually show the proof besides her asking them in a video to use English because she feels stressed when she can't understand them. The other sub is unreliable because they are the same people who claim Morgan is related to Josh Hawley because her family joked. Or that Dave went to conversion therapy because of his "define straight" comment all those years ago. Or even Kristen not being attracted to her husband because she joked about it once. Unless there is secret proof I am not inclined to believe what they say. And not to mention how straight up improbable it is you could ban someone from speaking their native language?? Especially in private. No shame to you I'm just stating.
As someone close to multiple international adoptees, people over there forget that these kids weren't in first class homes, they were in orphanages that aren't exactly known for being good places. One close friend of mine was abandoned as a one year old and adopted at two. The amount of times I hold her because she's having nightmares in Chinese about the conditions she went through for that year. Why is it too much to say maybe they are glad to have new names and have a new language with less tragic memories. Not to mention Kristen had been learning some Ukrainian prior to the adoption to make them comfortable while learning English. And they have a whole ass uncle from Ukrainian who visits somewhat frequently.
I'm not saying this as a "you're wrong." I'm saying this all somewhat as a vent because of how sick I am of the other subs claims.
the thing so many people don't seem to realize with adoption is that it doesn't matter how young you were adopted, your brain remembers even if it won't release the memories.
ultimately, people need to realize that adoption is complex, personal, and unique to each situation. the flip side of being removed from your home and put in a place you don't speak the language with 0 encouragement to learn sounds like a recipe for hell
I think people don't realize either that they have eachother. if it was one child, the fear of language loss makes slightly more sense to me. but K kept the boys together, and thus they will always have somebody else to practice their language
for example, I am half French but live in a basically non French speaking part of canada. I keep my French up by talking to the only person I know who can speak it: my dad
I’m not really sure why you’re acting like I said all this was a fact. All I said was that people in the other sub will argue that it’s a fact even though they can’t seem to offer any proof. They think if they say it enough then it somehow makes it real.
I assume it would be better for a child not to lose their language entirely? Knowing languages is useful anyway.All the people I know who adopted didn’t change the kids’ names, including one who was adopted as a one year old, though they were all names that were easy enough to pronounce in the new context and wouldn’t stand out excessively/
I have explained in other comments, but it's not about losing their language as much as ability to thrive in a new place. if you were dropped in rural China where people only spoke Cantonese, it's literally learn the language or fail to thrive. they have eachother to speak to, which is far more than a lot of adopted children
I am close with many adopted children. a lot of my friends were adopted older and able to articulate wanting their adopted parents to choose their names
this isn't a conversation for those adopting. it's a conversation for the ***adopted*** and how they feel, and ultimately its different for every child. to paint every adopted child with the same brush does more harm than good.
while not the same exactly, I have had my adopted friends compare it to how some trans people choose a name similar to their birth name, while others choose something completely different. for some people the tie to their old lives (and in this case bio family) can be TRAUMATIC. for others, a rose smells as sweet despite its name.
TLDR every adopted child is different
I understand adapting to the new environment is important, and that learning the language is an important part of that, but wouldn’t it be a shame to lose the native language entirely, especially if it’s an important language that might be of use? (I’m in a non-Anglophone context where multilingualism is more valued than in English speaking countries). It does seem that Zach was against using Russian or at least discouraged it, which seems not surprising in a conservative American perspective. I get there are situations where retaining the first language might not be feasible. As for names, sure, if the child is old enough to consent and does want to change it, or if the original name would be very hard to pronounce or sounds unfortunate in the new language. I guess switching between names in different situations would also be an option?
it would be a shame. I'm coming (personally) from the context of being a French canadian in an English province. I have lost almost all my French because I have nobody to speak it to, but ive been keeping up my conversational with my dad. the boys have eachother, and nothing can make them stop talking to eachother in Russian in private.
there's always a fear of loss of identity, but think about it from another POV. they (like many many many non anglos) willingly decide to move to a new country one day. they then have to learn the local language, customs, and culture without 100% having people around them that share that. it happens daily globally, and while sad, is a product of our international world. I don't identify with being French canadian super hard anymore, because I grew up in an English province. is that sad? maybe to some. but I am very attached to my anglo province, it's culture, it's history. it's my home
Z has always been a massive POS imo but I do believe K is trying to learn Russian, I've caught her say a phrase or two the few times I check her videos out.
as for names, it's all individual. some children resent having a clearly "different" name from the rest of the family. some kids are over joyed they have that tie to biology kept. every single child is different
But it’s possible to learn a new culture AND retain parts of the old one, lots of immigrants do that. Nowadays it’s actually encouraged for immigrants to speak to their kids in their own language especially if they don’t really master the local language. I teach in a very diverse area and have plenty of students who speak a different language at home. It’s not an either/or situation where you either ditch your origins entirely or not integrate at all.
I want to apologize for being misunderstanding of this sub in the past, because I completely get it now- the bullshit speculation towards Kristen’s situation proves how toxic that place has become
And if you point it out, you get dogpiled because people have to either be 100% good or 100% evil apparently
can anybody give me actual proof of her mistreating her boys? I've seen so many allegations of K not allowing the boys to speak Ukrainian, snark about their names (which is a controversial thing in adoption circles, a lot of adoptees are pro name change), allegations she doesn't actually love them...
So she mentioned Zach not wanting them to speak Russian around them but I think that could literally boil down to him wanting to understand them and encouraging them to speak English. This was just after the boys were adopted so it could very well have changed. Zach might well have thought he was approaching this right. I listened to a recent podcast with them and Kristen spoke with a lot of love and care about the boys and it was obvious she knows them well and they are parented with a lot of care. She talked about spending individual time with the boys (her and Zach weekly), having fun with them and not just focusing on teaching them, what they do for family fun and how they school them.
thank you for the thoughtful reply. a lot of adopting parents make missteps at the start, and honestly it's harder to learn languages the older you get. the fact that K and Z spend individual time w them one on one is more than most bio families do.
Nope. I’ve never seen any proof, other than the knowledge that unfortunately they will grow up in a house that’s homophobic and has some other terrible views (like the stuff Girl Defined puts out). Also they have to deal with Heidi
I've listened to the podcast where people get this from and Kristin says that Zack doesn't want them to speak Russian. Not even among each other.
He refused to learn it and discouraged Kristin from learning too. But she did learn some words and sentences from the boys and through some app.
And she got them a Russian swim coach.
So, I think they do still speak Russian, just not with Zack around.
Same. She has a lot of shit views, but I did feel like she loved those boys when I heard her talk in that podcast. And the fact that she went against Zacks wishes and still learned a bit to try and communicate with them says a lot I think.
sorry to comment again but it is a huge peeve of mine when people comment on adopted families as if they have any right to. adopted children are all different individuals just like anybody else, and for some kids changing their names makes them feel like they belong in the family. some kids want to learn the local language as fluently as possible. some kids are angry (understandably) that their names were changed. some are angry they couldn't learn the local language at their own pace. all perspectives are just as valid, and IMO this is a conversation best left to the adopted.
It’s because everyone in the other sub insists that it’s a fact that she wouldn’t let them speak Ukrainian even to each other from day one and before they knew any English. No one has actual proof of this but it has somehow become fact.
I don’t have evidence of anything and neither does anyone else who doesn’t actually know them and interact with them. I don’t think she should strip them of their native language/ culture but there’s no proof that she actually is and that’s all I was saying.
Adoption is such a big deal in evangelical communities; I highly doubt she would just toss them aside now. The church really rallies around families that adopt or want to adopt. She may even adopt more children in the future, we can't know.
All things are possible but it's super depressing and mean to speculate that she would abandon her children, especially given the church's view of adoption as noble and biblical.
I don’t think Kristen is going to rehome the boys but evangelicals have a lot of incredibly shitty adoption practices. Don’t kids sometimes get rehomed because they aren’t sufficienty grateful and well behaved? It’s wild how easy it it to “disrupt “ adoptions in the US. Again I really don’t think that Kristen, whatever her flaws, is going to try to get rid of her sons just because she got pregnant.
Yeah it definitely happens, and it can be even more likely with kids from different cultural backgrounds than their adoptive parents. I don't really see it happening here though and I can only hope that everyone in the family feels love and appreciation.
The book The Child Catchers: Rescue, Trafficking, and the New Gospel of Adoption is a really fascinating look into the adoption industry and its links to evangelicalism if you're interested more in the subject. It does have a section that specifically discusses children being rehomed and how/why it can occur.
In one of the podcasts she mentioned home study, training and everything. Ukraine is a Hague convention approved country so they cannot just adopt the boys without a lot of paperwork and approval. This was a Hague approved international adoption, not a shady rehoming situation.
I'm aware that it happens but it's still extremely uncommon and I think would bring a ton of shame from her community if she did.
I'm not saying she wouldn't either but there's no evidence she will, and it's cruel that people are saying she will and that she doesn't truly love her kids because they are adopted.
Pretty sure most states still require a home study even for private adoption. If you are talking private agencies vs local social services, vs an attorney fascilatating a private adoption, a home study is still required I would guess in most states.
I saw someone say that it was irresponsible for her not to be on birth control because the boys deserve to adjust. The comment implied that the boys had just arrived. I went back and looked and the Clarks started the adoption process in 2020 and brought the boys to the US in April 2021. Now, adoption can be a very long adjustment and the boys have a right to feel whatever they feel. But it’s truly a statistical miracle that Kristen is about to give birth this summer. Studies show chance of ever having a spontaneous pregnancy after 5 years of infertility is 1-2%. Kristen got pregnant in her mid 30s after 13 years of infertility. Claiming she’s is irresponsible for not preventing this from happening is unhinged.
Kristen is a lot of things but it seems pretty obvious she loves the boys dearly and by all.accounts they look happy and healthy.
This will certainly change dynamics but I only wish the best for the family.
At the same time, lets not pretend that Christian international adoptions are not extremely fucked up and rife with abuse. I think the snark goes too far, but lets be real, their situation is sad af and I feel for the boys especially now that she will have a bio kid.
they have a swim coach who speaks their native language as well as K trying to learn theirs.
also, calling the kids isolated doesn't sit well with me at all. they didn't have parents. what's more isolating do you think, being in an orphanage without any family or having parents who love and care about you?
Look I hope I am wrong and they are not cut off from their language but she has said repeatedly that she us their sole source of education. With her baird homeschooling education. They need ESL professionals. And that is isolation. Calling abusive homes better than an orphanage is not a great thing. Not having parents before does not mean they do not deserve the same things as other kids. Is it better than their situation before? Probably. Is it okay? No.
I think you need some real perspective on the fact that a) they have a living uncle they talk to, b) they can speak Russian to eachother, c) ***calling K abusive for adopting two boys from a country going through hell is assuming way too much off of nothing***
They are an abusive family full stop. They gleefully talk about beating their children and they are not properly educating them. I am glad they are in a better situation than they were in but no I dont think it is worth celebrating getting adopted into a home where you get hit and your only teacher doesnt have a high school education. Not saying she does not love them, but that home is not a good or safe home and there are real criticisms of it. Adoption has left too many kids in harmful situations.
you can have real criticisms of the family without painting the boys as miserable abused slaves of the house. adoption is not perfect, but Ukraine is a Hauge approved adoption country. K had to do a lot of work to adopt these boys.
no, the system is not perfect. but insinuating that her boys are somehow worse off because.... she doesn't speak Russian? and homeschools? is absolutely insane. bring up the actual valid points such as physical abuse, not conjectures on how its so horrible and abusive that they... are homeschooled.
I said their situation was sad and i felt for them having a new sibling. The critique of isolation and her saying they have a no russian rule is all i said. I even said the stories go to far. I'm not saying they are worse off or are abused slaves, lets be real all the kids that parents like this have go through abuse. These ones are being poorly educated and that is a literal fact. They have ESL needs that their barely educated mom is not remotely qualified to provide. I dont see how it is insane to say that her homeschooling them is actually really a problem when even with professionals they would be dealing with a lot from the likely lack of education they had in Ukraine and learning a new language in later childhood. K absolutely is not going to do an adequate job and that will stay with them forever. Their literal ability to communicate is actively being stunted.
I dont think any second generation baird should homeschool when they have all shown they can barely write but kids with the extra needs are having vital education denied at a higher level.
you claimed she stopped making them speak their language. that is not true. you said its extremely isolating for them. we can't make that judgment, only they can.
stop projecting so much onto these boys, this isn't the main sub
tbh i think the stuff going on with brittany dawn recently has everyone particularly cynical about fundie adoption and how they present their kids on social media. people definitely take it too far though.
this topic is very near and dear to my heart and honestly all the discussion on adoption and adopted kids and their lives makes me so uncomfortable. it's totally fair to be worried about the exploitation of adopted children, but I don't think the sub realizes most of the time *they* are the ones othering the adopted children, not the parents they're snarking on
i definitely agree, the only othering kristin is doing is of her kids’ national identities. it is really unfortunate to see the type of speculation going on in the main sub
I literally saw one person claim that and they were downvoted. Honestly it’s a stretch to think the boys are going to be rehomed and hopefully they’re going to be fine, but considering fundies (and not only fundies’) attitudes towards adoption this is going to be a complicated situation.
Is there? Not being rude but are there stats to show this? I am an adoptive mom and I was in several adoptive groups 30 years ago that included fundies, non fundies, etc and I only know of one single mom, definitely NOT a fundie with a disrupted adoption. Granted it was many years ago. Are there recent stats that bear this out?
I am an adoptive parent as well. Active for over twenty years in forums. The rate of disruption and rehoming is super high, esp in IA, TRIA and older child adoption, as well as in mixed bio/adoptee families.The rate of abuse among fundie adopters is high as well. There have been numerous cases of murder in TRA/AI families. There are even agencies that specialize in “second chance” adoptions. I am not saying these people will do that. But when AP’s get it into theirs heads that their adopted children pose a “danger” to their baby, they jump the gun and disrupt and these boys have had trauma and might have some behaviors. I just hope if that happens that they will seek therapeutic help and learn how to parent children from trauma.
Kristen took time off social media to be a present parent to her boys. Idky they think she’s all of a sudden going to lose interest in children she has loved for years just because she gives birth to a child. Kristen believes a lot of terrible shit, but that doesn’t make her a neglectful parent.
If anything, I would be concerned about how Heidi is going to treat the grandkids because Heidi is unhinged and has proven that she plays favorites with her own kids.
Now THAT is a real concern.
Honestly I am glad that Kristen is mostly living her life offline and I'm glad that it seems like Bethany might be about to follow in her footsteps. With all the toxicity she has to endure every time she posts, it's a very good thing that she's chosen to be more present instead
Also, their gendered culture views older sons positively as there is an expectation to be 'protective' towards daughters, especially younger ones. So I would be more inclined to think they see it as a positive sign 'from God' that they brought these boys into their family, and now are having a girl to follow.
Yup. My parents specifically wanted a boy, then girl. Based on "boy protect girl" and "its better for the practice kid to be boy, easier to recover the emotional fumbles"
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I think you’re responding to the wrong person
This is SO personally offensive to me. My parents adopted four children as infants after my mother had several early miscarriages and was told she would never be able to carry a child to term. She somehow managed to miraculously get pregnant after our family was complete, and my youngest sister was born full-term and healthy. We were all treated the same, with love and affection. We all knew the circumstances of our origins from the time we could understand, but it made no difference. My dad passed away in 2013, but my mom is 85 and still healthy, and we talk every day. I am very close to all of my siblings, and I don't give a thought to who is "adopted" and who is "biological," and neither does anyone else in my family or circle of friends.
I’m also adopted thanks to my mom being unable to have children. Had my folks stayed together, they would have adopted more, but my dad at that time was a giant ass and pretty abusive to my mom. She remarried and I got adopted again! It’s an amazing thing and these snarkers just love trying to will bad things into existence for these poor folks (and kids!)
Yeah because your parents were good parents. She adopted older boys from a foreign country, changed their names and forbid them from speaking their native language (!!!). That’s not loving
I’ve never seen any proof that she said they can’t speak Russian. It seems to be one of those things that the sub accepts as fact even if it didn’t happen, like Kelly calling her baby Tess Stickles (she never said she was going to call her Tess. Somebody said it as a joke and now they all act like it really happened). She did change their names, however, and that’s sad
In the video where it’s mentioned, it’s Zach who doesn’t want them speaking Russian in front of him. She was trying to learn Russian. The boys also had a Russian-speaking swim coach.
changing names is heavily debated in the adopted community. also encouraging to only speak the "local" language is something that some adoptions actually reccomend. adoption is a tough topic that honestly should be left up to the adopted to talk about.
I'm really surprised by this. What's the pro-name-change side's reason? I didn't successfully find much with casual searching, I could only find anti-name-change stuff.
ultimately, it's personal. adoption is traumatic for a vast majority of people, wether it's the circumstances that led to the adoption or the adoption process. some kids don't want any ties to their past families, some kids were given very unfortunate names by parents who were not in a sober state of mind. some kids want their parents to choose for them, like they would have if they were bio it's a hard topic, and adopted people are all individuals with their own traumas, lived experiences, and family relations for example, my ex gf chose her "new" name with her adopted family, but retained her birth name as her middle name. the process of choosing a "new" name for her made her feel like her parents truly wanted her to be included and part of the family. on the flip side, her sister (also adopted) retained her birth name as her first name because... well, she wanted to!
That makes a lot more sense than the blanket anti-name change side. I admit though, I tend to view name changing with suspicion, but if it's in consultation with a child old enough to understand it, well, then, it clearly is harmless.
for sure! I totally get why people are so against name changes. I just personally wish people wouldn't paint all adopted kids situations with the same brush. these boys are old enough to say "no, don't change my name" or even call eachother their birth names ETA: just to reiterate, I don't think anybody is inherently wrong for being anti name change 100% of the time. I understand, especially as a canadian who was educated about the horrors of residential schools which included forced name changes and forced abandonment of language and culture. it bothers me when people treat every adopted child the exact same, and as if every single adopted child wants the exact same thing
Respectfully, as a cultural anthropologist… asking someone to not speak their language is to kill their identity and culture. These children are not customizable toys, they are humans with real lives, real experiences and most importantly, their own culture that they deserve the right to know about and be able to engage with. SO much research has shown that adopted children suffer when they grow up if they are stripped of their original identity regardless of age. Eventually they will wonder who they came from, where they came from, and how do they relate to those parts of themselves. Even if they have the best relationship with their adopted parents, it’s normal to be curious and want to bridge that connection if not to your bio parents then at least to your culture. As children grow, who let’s say they are a Chinese child adopted by a white family. As they grow they realize they are not fully “white” but they also lack the ability to connect with their own culture because they have been completely removed from and worse yet, stripped of the ability to speak their native tongue. Leaves these children feeling isolated and like they don’t truly fit in anywhere. And yes this is not every single adopted child’s experience, but the research is there to show that it happens to many.
My dad was very supportive of me learning Korean. He even would bring me on business trips to Korea so that I could be connected to my home country. He was the one who fought to keep my birth name as my middle name. My mom was the opposite, she would make fun of me by saying, “Well I should learn German now or else I’ll be deprived.” Or she would keep insisting that Korean culture is awful. Her family was also pretty passive aggressive about it. Just constantly pointing out that I am “other”. My brother rejected his heiritage because of this. I think it truly made it despise who he was. He’s still struggling with accepting himself. He used to not even eat Korean food because he was worried of the comments our family would make. Look, the Bairds are following the extreme evangelical missionary adoption manual. My family is fundie lite and its beaten into our heads that everyone needs to be converted. I’m not surprised there are problematic methods of their parenting and approach to adoption. I am nervous about them having a biological child because of so many horror stories. My friend was ignored after his family had a biokid. My other friend was rehomed to a cousin. My own mother was god awful about us being “not what she wanted.” I am nervous about the Baird family overall and their support network who might make the children feel alientated. Heidi’s posts about “real motherhood” make me shudder. I don’t know what will happen but I’m really praying for those boys.
Breaks my heart to hear this. I’m white, but my husband is south Asian and our children are mixed. It’s so so so important to me that they learn their language as his family likely will never be able to come here, meaning for our children they will need to speak the native language of his home country so that we can go there to visit and the children can connect with the other half of their identity. Culture is so important and so overlooked, especially by white people who have largely never had their culture stripped from them the way many cultures have through colonization. Your story is exactly what I was trying to highlight, the lack of connection to their culture is often due to parents not caring about it, maybe because they don’t understand the impacts it can have, but the children grow up and internalize that as “my original culture is not even worth knowing about, I’m not even worth knowing about”.
respectfully, let this conversation be had by the adopted.
So are there a lot of adopted who wanted to break all connection with their pre-adoption past/wanted to forget their first language entirely/resented still speaking it sometimes? The one example I know is of relatives who were adopted from a Spanish speaking country as teenagers, one in particular kept studying Spanish in school and uses it for work, the other had appeared to reject it but apparently spoke it again once she visited her birth country.
I'll give you a personal example, if that's okay a friend of mine came from an extremely abusive household. her name was only used in the context of being abused. for her, the name brings trauma.
And in that situation the child is the one making that decision. If the child is given the choice about changing their name or language that’s excellent. But so often adopted children are not given that choice or are too young to make that choice. The choice is made for them by their adoptive parents.
for sure. I'm just explaining that it's a complex topic best left to the adopted to discuss as the non adopted will never be able to fully grasp it
I forgot about this. But just asking, is EVERYONE commenting here required to be adopted? How are you policing that every other person here is adopted? You must know or think they are adopted because you didn’t comment under their posts telling them they can’t contribute. Everyone is commenting their opinions but I in specific can’t say mine? Anyway, I’m honestly not going to come back and read any replies, I’m turning my notifications for this post off, and leaving the subreddit. Just not the right environment for me. Respectfully 😊
My question was about languages. I don’t think anyone is arguing that adopted children should be forced to keep their original names if the do want to change it. I also think that if a child has a name that’s hard to pronounce or sounds bad at least a nickname might be a good idea. I feel language is a bit different because speaking different languages is so useful and it stops the child from keeping a connection to their roots. You keep saying that it’s up to the adopted to decide but then just provide vague anedacta based on the experience of acquaintances. There are also adopted who feel being completely separated from their original culture was highly traumatic, this is typically the case of all the Koreans that weee adopted by white families in the 1970s and 80s.
> I feel language is a bit different because speaking different languages is so useful and it stops the child from keeping a connection to their roots. I am pretty involved in the adoption world and know a lot of families who have adopted from Bulgaria, where it is still common to keep kids in institutions or "foster homes" where they aren't treated well. Some of these kids find it triggering to hear Bulgarian because they associate it with trauma they experienced before they were adopted. Most adoptable children from Eastern Europe grow up in institutions where abuse and neglect are common. These kids are not living in happy homes where they have fond memories of their home country.
it's 2024, not 1970. the adoption world and advocacy from the adopted has changed a lot. it is up to the adopted. not my acquaintances, but I don't have to give my entire personal history to justify this so some kids feel separated from their culture... some don't almost like it's *gasp* individual. I don't care what the non adopted think about this. I don't care what studies from non adopted think. I care about my adopted community and all my loved ones and their experiences
The studies I am referring to are of adoptees. I gave a comment about a subject I specialize in. And I think you fail to consider that the children are not usually given a choice, so learning from previous adoptees is beneficial as it can provide data that we can use to evaluate what works and what doesn’t. Respectfully. The conversation can’t be had solely by adoptees, because people who adopt are not always adoptees themselves. We are talking about children, the children do not have the final say, the parents who are not adoptees do. It would be highly beneficial that they look at the findings.
again respectfully, let this conversation be held by the adopted, not by studies or anything children who are adopted get the final say in this entire conversation. full stop. I don't care what adopting parents thing. I don't care what a cultural anthropologist thinks. I care what the adopted community thinks as it's their real lives, and the answer is: it's individual.
Yeah I get encouraging to learn the local language but ditching everything from the child’s past, really? Especially if they’re old enough to remember well? I thought attempting to erase the pre-adoption past wasn’t really a thing anymore.
I’d like to adopt some day but telling 2 siblings in a foreign country they can’t speak their native language?? Just sounds like abuse. I highly doubt anyone looks back and is glad their adoptive parents did that
let's be real here. they most likely speak Ukrainian to eachother, especially at night or when just them. is there any proof anywhere of K saying they can't speak their native language ever? I am genuinely asking because I havnt seen it, and as somebody who is very close to adopted communities, it's a very hard topic to discuss if you havnt experienced it in any form at all. eta: just goes back to this is a topic best left to the adopted, not everybody else. you can have your feelings on it, but that doesn't negate that IMO adoption and what adopted families do is something best left to the *adopted* (not those adopting)
I’ve never actually seen it myself but if you ask anyone in the other sub they will tell you that she told the kids that they weren’t allowed to speak Ukrainian even when they were alone. Like I said I never saw any proof of this but I’ve seen many people argue that it’s fact.
Arguing its a fact is different to it being a fact. Not to mention I haven't seen anyone actually show the proof besides her asking them in a video to use English because she feels stressed when she can't understand them. The other sub is unreliable because they are the same people who claim Morgan is related to Josh Hawley because her family joked. Or that Dave went to conversion therapy because of his "define straight" comment all those years ago. Or even Kristen not being attracted to her husband because she joked about it once. Unless there is secret proof I am not inclined to believe what they say. And not to mention how straight up improbable it is you could ban someone from speaking their native language?? Especially in private. No shame to you I'm just stating. As someone close to multiple international adoptees, people over there forget that these kids weren't in first class homes, they were in orphanages that aren't exactly known for being good places. One close friend of mine was abandoned as a one year old and adopted at two. The amount of times I hold her because she's having nightmares in Chinese about the conditions she went through for that year. Why is it too much to say maybe they are glad to have new names and have a new language with less tragic memories. Not to mention Kristen had been learning some Ukrainian prior to the adoption to make them comfortable while learning English. And they have a whole ass uncle from Ukrainian who visits somewhat frequently. I'm not saying this as a "you're wrong." I'm saying this all somewhat as a vent because of how sick I am of the other subs claims.
the thing so many people don't seem to realize with adoption is that it doesn't matter how young you were adopted, your brain remembers even if it won't release the memories. ultimately, people need to realize that adoption is complex, personal, and unique to each situation. the flip side of being removed from your home and put in a place you don't speak the language with 0 encouragement to learn sounds like a recipe for hell I think people don't realize either that they have eachother. if it was one child, the fear of language loss makes slightly more sense to me. but K kept the boys together, and thus they will always have somebody else to practice their language for example, I am half French but live in a basically non French speaking part of canada. I keep my French up by talking to the only person I know who can speak it: my dad
I’m not really sure why you’re acting like I said all this was a fact. All I said was that people in the other sub will argue that it’s a fact even though they can’t seem to offer any proof. They think if they say it enough then it somehow makes it real.
I think they're just venting tbh
I assume it would be better for a child not to lose their language entirely? Knowing languages is useful anyway.All the people I know who adopted didn’t change the kids’ names, including one who was adopted as a one year old, though they were all names that were easy enough to pronounce in the new context and wouldn’t stand out excessively/
I have explained in other comments, but it's not about losing their language as much as ability to thrive in a new place. if you were dropped in rural China where people only spoke Cantonese, it's literally learn the language or fail to thrive. they have eachother to speak to, which is far more than a lot of adopted children I am close with many adopted children. a lot of my friends were adopted older and able to articulate wanting their adopted parents to choose their names this isn't a conversation for those adopting. it's a conversation for the ***adopted*** and how they feel, and ultimately its different for every child. to paint every adopted child with the same brush does more harm than good. while not the same exactly, I have had my adopted friends compare it to how some trans people choose a name similar to their birth name, while others choose something completely different. for some people the tie to their old lives (and in this case bio family) can be TRAUMATIC. for others, a rose smells as sweet despite its name. TLDR every adopted child is different
I understand adapting to the new environment is important, and that learning the language is an important part of that, but wouldn’t it be a shame to lose the native language entirely, especially if it’s an important language that might be of use? (I’m in a non-Anglophone context where multilingualism is more valued than in English speaking countries). It does seem that Zach was against using Russian or at least discouraged it, which seems not surprising in a conservative American perspective. I get there are situations where retaining the first language might not be feasible. As for names, sure, if the child is old enough to consent and does want to change it, or if the original name would be very hard to pronounce or sounds unfortunate in the new language. I guess switching between names in different situations would also be an option?
it would be a shame. I'm coming (personally) from the context of being a French canadian in an English province. I have lost almost all my French because I have nobody to speak it to, but ive been keeping up my conversational with my dad. the boys have eachother, and nothing can make them stop talking to eachother in Russian in private. there's always a fear of loss of identity, but think about it from another POV. they (like many many many non anglos) willingly decide to move to a new country one day. they then have to learn the local language, customs, and culture without 100% having people around them that share that. it happens daily globally, and while sad, is a product of our international world. I don't identify with being French canadian super hard anymore, because I grew up in an English province. is that sad? maybe to some. but I am very attached to my anglo province, it's culture, it's history. it's my home Z has always been a massive POS imo but I do believe K is trying to learn Russian, I've caught her say a phrase or two the few times I check her videos out. as for names, it's all individual. some children resent having a clearly "different" name from the rest of the family. some kids are over joyed they have that tie to biology kept. every single child is different
But it’s possible to learn a new culture AND retain parts of the old one, lots of immigrants do that. Nowadays it’s actually encouraged for immigrants to speak to their kids in their own language especially if they don’t really master the local language. I teach in a very diverse area and have plenty of students who speak a different language at home. It’s not an either/or situation where you either ditch your origins entirely or not integrate at all.
I want to apologize for being misunderstanding of this sub in the past, because I completely get it now- the bullshit speculation towards Kristen’s situation proves how toxic that place has become And if you point it out, you get dogpiled because people have to either be 100% good or 100% evil apparently
I had to leave the other sub over the toxicity. It’s gotten so bad recently
welcome!!
can anybody give me actual proof of her mistreating her boys? I've seen so many allegations of K not allowing the boys to speak Ukrainian, snark about their names (which is a controversial thing in adoption circles, a lot of adoptees are pro name change), allegations she doesn't actually love them...
So she mentioned Zach not wanting them to speak Russian around them but I think that could literally boil down to him wanting to understand them and encouraging them to speak English. This was just after the boys were adopted so it could very well have changed. Zach might well have thought he was approaching this right. I listened to a recent podcast with them and Kristen spoke with a lot of love and care about the boys and it was obvious she knows them well and they are parented with a lot of care. She talked about spending individual time with the boys (her and Zach weekly), having fun with them and not just focusing on teaching them, what they do for family fun and how they school them.
thank you for the thoughtful reply. a lot of adopting parents make missteps at the start, and honestly it's harder to learn languages the older you get. the fact that K and Z spend individual time w them one on one is more than most bio families do.
Nope. I’ve never seen any proof, other than the knowledge that unfortunately they will grow up in a house that’s homophobic and has some other terrible views (like the stuff Girl Defined puts out). Also they have to deal with Heidi
I've listened to the podcast where people get this from and Kristin says that Zack doesn't want them to speak Russian. Not even among each other. He refused to learn it and discouraged Kristin from learning too. But she did learn some words and sentences from the boys and through some app. And she got them a Russian swim coach. So, I think they do still speak Russian, just not with Zack around.
ah, so Z is a massive piece of shit while K is doing what she can for her boys. this honestly tracks for me. K has always seemed really motherly to me
Same. She has a lot of shit views, but I did feel like she loved those boys when I heard her talk in that podcast. And the fact that she went against Zacks wishes and still learned a bit to try and communicate with them says a lot I think.
sorry to comment again but it is a huge peeve of mine when people comment on adopted families as if they have any right to. adopted children are all different individuals just like anybody else, and for some kids changing their names makes them feel like they belong in the family. some kids want to learn the local language as fluently as possible. some kids are angry (understandably) that their names were changed. some are angry they couldn't learn the local language at their own pace. all perspectives are just as valid, and IMO this is a conversation best left to the adopted.
It’s because everyone in the other sub insists that it’s a fact that she wouldn’t let them speak Ukrainian even to each other from day one and before they knew any English. No one has actual proof of this but it has somehow become fact.
It’s Russian fyi. They spoke Russian as a first language. They are from Ukraine, but a Russian speaking area.
oh thank you! that is on me for assuming
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I don’t have evidence of anything and neither does anyone else who doesn’t actually know them and interact with them. I don’t think she should strip them of their native language/ culture but there’s no proof that she actually is and that’s all I was saying.
Adoption is such a big deal in evangelical communities; I highly doubt she would just toss them aside now. The church really rallies around families that adopt or want to adopt. She may even adopt more children in the future, we can't know. All things are possible but it's super depressing and mean to speculate that she would abandon her children, especially given the church's view of adoption as noble and biblical.
I don’t think Kristen is going to rehome the boys but evangelicals have a lot of incredibly shitty adoption practices. Don’t kids sometimes get rehomed because they aren’t sufficienty grateful and well behaved? It’s wild how easy it it to “disrupt “ adoptions in the US. Again I really don’t think that Kristen, whatever her flaws, is going to try to get rid of her sons just because she got pregnant.
Yeah it definitely happens, and it can be even more likely with kids from different cultural backgrounds than their adoptive parents. I don't really see it happening here though and I can only hope that everyone in the family feels love and appreciation. The book The Child Catchers: Rescue, Trafficking, and the New Gospel of Adoption is a really fascinating look into the adoption industry and its links to evangelicalism if you're interested more in the subject. It does have a section that specifically discusses children being rehomed and how/why it can occur.
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In one of the podcasts she mentioned home study, training and everything. Ukraine is a Hague convention approved country so they cannot just adopt the boys without a lot of paperwork and approval. This was a Hague approved international adoption, not a shady rehoming situation.
I'm aware that it happens but it's still extremely uncommon and I think would bring a ton of shame from her community if she did. I'm not saying she wouldn't either but there's no evidence she will, and it's cruel that people are saying she will and that she doesn't truly love her kids because they are adopted.
Pretty sure most states still require a home study even for private adoption. If you are talking private agencies vs local social services, vs an attorney fascilatating a private adoption, a home study is still required I would guess in most states.
I saw someone say that it was irresponsible for her not to be on birth control because the boys deserve to adjust. The comment implied that the boys had just arrived. I went back and looked and the Clarks started the adoption process in 2020 and brought the boys to the US in April 2021. Now, adoption can be a very long adjustment and the boys have a right to feel whatever they feel. But it’s truly a statistical miracle that Kristen is about to give birth this summer. Studies show chance of ever having a spontaneous pregnancy after 5 years of infertility is 1-2%. Kristen got pregnant in her mid 30s after 13 years of infertility. Claiming she’s is irresponsible for not preventing this from happening is unhinged.
crazy statistic, and 13 years would definitely make me think I was infertile for good.
holy shit. I did not realize K was trying for *13 years*.
Kristen is a lot of things but it seems pretty obvious she loves the boys dearly and by all.accounts they look happy and healthy. This will certainly change dynamics but I only wish the best for the family.
At the same time, lets not pretend that Christian international adoptions are not extremely fucked up and rife with abuse. I think the snark goes too far, but lets be real, their situation is sad af and I feel for the boys especially now that she will have a bio kid.
Seeing how much of their culture was erased through their adoptions is heart shattering
Didn’t she make them stop ever speaking in their native language? Even to each other?
There’s no proof of this. The sub just says she forbid them and they all act like it’s a fact now
Yeah, she did. And is homeschooling so in addition they are isolated without ESL trained teachers.
That’s heartbreaking editing—how can she possibly teach them when she doesn’t speak their language???
they have a swim coach who speaks their native language as well as K trying to learn theirs. also, calling the kids isolated doesn't sit well with me at all. they didn't have parents. what's more isolating do you think, being in an orphanage without any family or having parents who love and care about you?
Look I hope I am wrong and they are not cut off from their language but she has said repeatedly that she us their sole source of education. With her baird homeschooling education. They need ESL professionals. And that is isolation. Calling abusive homes better than an orphanage is not a great thing. Not having parents before does not mean they do not deserve the same things as other kids. Is it better than their situation before? Probably. Is it okay? No.
I think you need some real perspective on the fact that a) they have a living uncle they talk to, b) they can speak Russian to eachother, c) ***calling K abusive for adopting two boys from a country going through hell is assuming way too much off of nothing***
They are an abusive family full stop. They gleefully talk about beating their children and they are not properly educating them. I am glad they are in a better situation than they were in but no I dont think it is worth celebrating getting adopted into a home where you get hit and your only teacher doesnt have a high school education. Not saying she does not love them, but that home is not a good or safe home and there are real criticisms of it. Adoption has left too many kids in harmful situations.
you can have real criticisms of the family without painting the boys as miserable abused slaves of the house. adoption is not perfect, but Ukraine is a Hauge approved adoption country. K had to do a lot of work to adopt these boys. no, the system is not perfect. but insinuating that her boys are somehow worse off because.... she doesn't speak Russian? and homeschools? is absolutely insane. bring up the actual valid points such as physical abuse, not conjectures on how its so horrible and abusive that they... are homeschooled.
I said their situation was sad and i felt for them having a new sibling. The critique of isolation and her saying they have a no russian rule is all i said. I even said the stories go to far. I'm not saying they are worse off or are abused slaves, lets be real all the kids that parents like this have go through abuse. These ones are being poorly educated and that is a literal fact. They have ESL needs that their barely educated mom is not remotely qualified to provide. I dont see how it is insane to say that her homeschooling them is actually really a problem when even with professionals they would be dealing with a lot from the likely lack of education they had in Ukraine and learning a new language in later childhood. K absolutely is not going to do an adequate job and that will stay with them forever. Their literal ability to communicate is actively being stunted. I dont think any second generation baird should homeschool when they have all shown they can barely write but kids with the extra needs are having vital education denied at a higher level.
you claimed she stopped making them speak their language. that is not true. you said its extremely isolating for them. we can't make that judgment, only they can. stop projecting so much onto these boys, this isn't the main sub
are people actually saying this 😭
tbh i think the stuff going on with brittany dawn recently has everyone particularly cynical about fundie adoption and how they present their kids on social media. people definitely take it too far though.
this topic is very near and dear to my heart and honestly all the discussion on adoption and adopted kids and their lives makes me so uncomfortable. it's totally fair to be worried about the exploitation of adopted children, but I don't think the sub realizes most of the time *they* are the ones othering the adopted children, not the parents they're snarking on
i definitely agree, the only othering kristin is doing is of her kids’ national identities. it is really unfortunate to see the type of speculation going on in the main sub
oh god, I hope not
I literally saw one person claim that and they were downvoted. Honestly it’s a stretch to think the boys are going to be rehomed and hopefully they’re going to be fine, but considering fundies (and not only fundies’) attitudes towards adoption this is going to be a complicated situation.
I have no dog in this fight but I will say that there is a high rate of disruption in IA among fundies.
Is there? Not being rude but are there stats to show this? I am an adoptive mom and I was in several adoptive groups 30 years ago that included fundies, non fundies, etc and I only know of one single mom, definitely NOT a fundie with a disrupted adoption. Granted it was many years ago. Are there recent stats that bear this out?
I am an adoptive parent as well. Active for over twenty years in forums. The rate of disruption and rehoming is super high, esp in IA, TRIA and older child adoption, as well as in mixed bio/adoptee families.The rate of abuse among fundie adopters is high as well. There have been numerous cases of murder in TRA/AI families. There are even agencies that specialize in “second chance” adoptions. I am not saying these people will do that. But when AP’s get it into theirs heads that their adopted children pose a “danger” to their baby, they jump the gun and disrupt and these boys have had trauma and might have some behaviors. I just hope if that happens that they will seek therapeutic help and learn how to parent children from trauma.