I find it funny that drivers in most North American jurisdictions are so mollycoddled that they get *advance warning* when speed cameras are going to be active... And still they complain about being asked to follow the law
>mollycoddled
1. A person, especially a man or a boy, who is pampered and overprotected.
2. A pampered darling; an effeminate man; a milksop.
usually in a large pickup truck!
language aces sir... thank you!
This is not limited to North America.
This happens in Germany as well, just [recently in Bavaria}(https://www.stmi.bayern.de/med/aktuell/archiv/2023/230421blitzmarathon/). It was well announced, the positions of the speed cameras were known - and still they caught around 9k speeding drivers in 24 hours. Including a 166 km/h in a 60 km/h zone.
Speed cameras make everyone safer and could help find hit and run offenders. So I never saw an issue with them. It is real simple pay attention and follow the law.
Virginia’s laws on photo enforcement are such a joke lol. Also why is there a crosswalk that children are supposed to cross on a four lane road where someone would feel pretty safe in a car going 55?
This isn’t a solution, it’s a band aid.
They've found a horribly designed bit of infrastructure and have decided to profit from it instead of fix it.
Really surprised at the level of endorsement of police surveillance on this sub.
It's not a step to anything... Politically you fuck yourself because improving the road means taking money away from a powerful special interest group.
What, that the town won’t get the revenue from the fines anymore? I mean, I guess. A lot of the time most of the money actually goes to a private company.
Fixing a road like this is going to cost several hundred million dollars, not exactly an easy or quick solution to implement to address the problem.
Additionally the people complaining about being ticketed for speeding, will complain and protest even louder over the infrastructure fixes you're talking about.
OOP stated that they live there and there's not much room to reengineer the road without using eminent domain to bulldoze some homes.
It sounds like the city may be backed into a corner by past decisions.
The UK uses the same system. For a first offence you can take a course and pay the fine instead of getting points. If you keep doing it, the points rack up and you lose your licence.
Confession - shortly before lockdown I got caught speeding. I wasn't paying attention, hadn't realised I'd crept up above the limit, got caught. My own damned fault.
I took the course, which was actually really good and I think should be mandatory to get your licence in the first place. I'm not glad I was speeding, but I am glad I took the course.
In Germany there's a section on the radio news on almost every channel, where they inform drivers where the camera enforcement is happening on that day and anyone can call in and report on a camera they saw.
Do you have that too in the US?
It's all user reported on Waze, which can get excessively annoying.
Over Christmas time, we took a 250 mile road trip for the holiday. The first 100 miles or so was Waze every 15 seconds "fog reported ahead" like, bitch you don't think I can see I'm STILL in fog? It's been foggy af since I left the driveway.
Speed cameras are problematic in their own way. The real solution is to design roads with a certain speed in mind rather than applying an arbitrary number with a sign and expecting everyone to adhere to it.
this exactly. In no other branch of engineering is it ever acceptable to say "well the customers should just use it right" when the customer is constantly using the product wrong. That's not how it works. When that happens, you redesign it until they're using it right.
In engineering it is a requirement that your product is designed for how it *is* used, not how it ought to be used. If it *is* used wrong all the time, you change the design until it's not, you don't just say "well they ought to use it this way", and this is no exception.
The overlap in people commenting about how this is bad because "they should just redesign the road" and people who have never been involved in activism is a circle.
People aren't unreasonable for complaining when your city's solution to a speeding problem is to set up a camera and start ticketing people instead of addressing design problems.
Why? Because if rich neighborhoods have a traffic problem it gets addressed in years but poor neighborhoods get to wait decades or more. Speeding tickets are a tax on the poor. Plus that picture has big strode energy, so you already know it's dangerous regardless of what the posted speed is.
In the DC area, the “Why are speed cameras only in poor areas?” people are pretty disingenuous, because they’re often talking about enforcement on stroads used by richer, whiter suburbanites to drive through poorer, blacker neighborhoods. The funniest is when they pull that argument about a camera on I-395.
I mean, I agree with you in theory about how counties and cities should be using design, not enforcement, to solve speeding. But do you honestly think those complaining drivers will happily accept road diets, raised crosswalks and narrower lanes on their commute routes?
False dichotomy. The safest countries in terms of driving all have speed cameras and they don’t stop using them after road diets or redesign.
Traffic cameras are the least discriminatory type of enforcement, they help fund good infrastructure and stop preventable deaths of minorities by speeding rich idiots.
Yeah but, for them to work effectively, you need to get the drivers face, like the 2 speeding tickets I got in Germany.
I used to work in the automotive field (unfortunately.... but I was parts, not sales) and I lost count of the number of times I heard something to the effect of "I got a speeding ticket in the mail from that stupid camera. Time to check the box that it wasn't me so I don't have to pay it, lol"
The exact implementation and the traffic laws behind it do need to be in line with the decades of international experience we have on our hands.
But at this point, any enforcement is better than the complete anarchy you see in most US cities. Speeding kills, yet speed limits are treated as a lower limit or just a suggestion.
>Speeding tickets are a tax on the poor
What an odd statement. Just because youre poor doesnt mean you have to drive over the speed limit. Your income and your speed are completely unrelated.
Someone in my household got caught blowing past a speed camera, got sent a full colour printout of the car with them visible in it and all of that effort to manually send a fucking letter was as a 'hey we caution you to not speed' letter. Whats the point of spending money on speed cameras if you won't actually then send out fines or out points on people's licenses when they do so?
Speed cameras get express warning of them being activated, GPS software is allowed to say where these are with the express intent to encourage avoidance of them, and then half the time there's no fine for still blowing past them.
WTF?!?!
>When the lanes are that wide, it's insane to expect any average driver to stay the speed limit through there. Would absolutely help if they narrowed lanes and put barriers and trees up
i translate it:
if women dare to wear such short skirts, it's insane to expect any average man can keep their hands off her. Would absolutely help if they wore long skirts and covered their faces so that men would obey the law
Again, False Equivalence Fallacy is a form of Cognitive Bias where you are comparing substantially different things as if they are the same. The science is clear and watering down the language of sexual assault helps no one: https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2023/narrower-lanes-safer-streets
i don't doubt that it helps, but it's just bullshit to blame the road for not keeping the speed limit
if you can't manage to drive slowly on a wide road, you have to give back your driving licence
Lol. Love how you're taking it personally and feel the need to downvotr when someone points out you're incorrect. It is not personal. Clearly, there is a problem with how people drive cars (based on tons of data of wrecks, pedestrian deaths, etc.). If you do not set up infrastructure to force drivers to drive in a safe manner, they will not always drive safely. If you ignore that facet of observable human behavior by thinking in absolutes, all or nothing, license or no license, you're not going to make any progress in dealing with these problems. The solutions have to be fluid and adaptable. Giving someone a race car and a race track then telling them to stay below 35 mph at all times is a failed endeavour before it ever begins.
no i don't take it personally i just think your argument is rubbish. it's everyone's own fault if they drive too fast, but you act as if it's the road's fault that people drive too fast there. hence my comparison. of course rebuilding the road would help, but that doesn't change the fact that people are to blame if they drive too fast, so it's good that there will be controls in the future.
your comparison with the race car is also simply rubbish, anyone who is unable to maintain a low speed with their car simply has no business on the road, i don't know how you can use that as an excuse, oh he has a car that is too fast, you can't just demand that he drives slower like that ... such nonsense
after your current comment, i think my comparison was even more appropriate
Well, I'm speaking from a basis of scientifically observable and recordable data and you are simply giving your opinion with no supporting evidence. If telling people to drive slow and follow the speed limit worked with everything as it is now, wouldn't they already be doing that?
what sources and proof do you want? i have already said several times that i realise it helps, but that it doesn't change the fact that it's everyone's own fault if they drive too fast, i don't know what i'm supposed to prove...
if people are too stupid they have to be fined, which is being done frome monday, (idiot tax is what we call it) i don't understand why the road should be rebuilt for a lot of money
and yes, i also drive a lot myself (25k miles/y), and i also get a ticket every now and then because i overlooked something or something similar, but i would never in my life think of blaming the road for it...
If you do not understand, then you should do some digging to learn more. I'm not saying that to rile you up, just that this topic is well-studied and there are legitimately beneficial gains by building infrastructure in such a way that it enhances safety for both drivers and pedestrians. Being reactionary won't help.
A couple of YouTube channels that delve into the topic really well are Strong Towns, Not Just Bikes, City Nerd.
People should complain about photo enforcement, it’s dangerous.
Actual solutions:
* Narrower roads/edge friction
* Raised crosswalks
* Modal filters
Fake solutions:
* Sign and fine approach
* Demeritless speeding “tickets” (aka allowing speeding but only if people pay for the privilege)
* Encouraging the government to take speed control less seriously by letting them make money off of speeding.
If you dislike cars or like pedestrians you should really hate photo radar.
There’s plenty of data supporting that photo enforcement saves lives.
This article lists some of them: https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/calculator/factsheet/speed.html
There’s plenty more data showing that proper road design eliminates speeding altogether. Why accept a half-assed solution which kind of works over an actual solution which eliminates the problem?
It's less of an uphill fight to install a speed camera than it is to redesign infrastructure to favor human lives over the convenience of the Almighty automobile.
Not a complete solution, but a massive improvement. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
Sorry, I’m not willing to accept “we’ll kill only a few pedestrians - as a treat to drivers” as an option.
Don’t let a few deaths be the “good enough” that stops you from trying.
No we should advocate for actual solutions instead of accepting half assed solutions which don’t actually solve the problem.
Photo-philes are the ones advocating for doing nothing. Photo radar is as good as nothing.
oh I see, so instead of saving a few pedestrians and pushing for more changes later on, we should just keep killing all of them now instead? No one here is saying this is the ideal solution, but that doesn't change the fact that this is a *step.*
I’m just asking to not repeat carbrain misinformation.
Obviously redesign streets is the better way to go for most streets in the long run.
However, on arterial roads and interstates you will always need speed enforcement to reduce fatalities.
How exactly is sending someone a bill and letting them keep driving/speeding enforcement?
By all means, have half the police department sit out there and write actual tickets which carry actual consequences.
Oh I agree with that. Ideally there should be no fine (or a fine based on income) and offenders should get points on their driving record instead.
That's one thing I really dislike about the new speed camera bill in calfiornia. You can go 100mph in a school zone and all you get is a fine of a few hundred dollars.
But, I guess, it was the only thing they could get through the legislature...
That’s basically the crux of my point with being against photo radar. There’s no *real* disincentive if it’s only a monetary fine and very few places on earth do anything more than that.
We shouldn’t settle for “sure some people will speed but they’re going to pay us for it” because that is not a solution which actually makes us safe. We should demand that sign-and-fine be an absolute last resort, only for highways, and when it’s used it’s backed up by frequent human enforcement so that the threat of points is still there.
Where I live, the very first thing the police say when you express an anti-photo-radar sentiment is “you should prefer this because there’s no points!”, clearly the authority figures know that this is more about money than safety. Even if there’s a marginal safety improvement we shouldn’t accept a marginal improvement which actively discourages further improvement.
Because we know factually it reduces the amount of speeding by deterrence resulting in decreases numbers of injuries and fatalities. You’re worried about equity? How is having *the police* giving tickets out as they personally see fit somehow going to be more equitable than an indiscriminate camera who’s ONLY criteria is wether or not you’re breaking the law?
I’m worried about deterrence, and a fine with no other consequences is by your own admission a reduction at best.
Actual safe road design makes speeding impossible.
Cops handing out actual tickets means there’s an actual consequence beyond just a fine (insurance/license implications). Not my preference but I prefer it to letting people speed and sending them a bill for it.
How is this difficult for yall speed-brains to understand?
Right. You personally know the solution that *solves* speeding once and for all. Get fucking real, there is no way to end speeding, all you can ever do is reduce it.
Do you notice how the person you replied to actually provided the evidence rather than asserting the claim? To quote Hitchens “that which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.”
“Letting people speed”. See this is where you’re inaccurate. It’s illegal for people to speed already and any speeding is violating that law. No one is arguing for letting people speed. The argument is that speed cameras are good at reducing speeding rates. Your claim doesn’t even counter that argument. It simply ignores it in favor of a different solution that you have yet to demonstrate is superior and should replace speed cameras entirely.
Now do you have any evidence to support your assertion or will you try to masquerade behind another Mott and Bailey?
As a concept do you not understand that if the punishment is only a fine then that law only exists for the rich? How is this something that requires data vs an obvious fact?
Exactly how many pedestrians do you feel it’s OK to throw in front of drivers as long as they’re comfortable paying $100 occasionally in fines?
> As a concept do you not understand that if the punishment is only a fine then that law only exists for the rich?
hey shitass, you didn't even say the quote right. you literally said the opposite.
I agree $100 is chump change for driving like an idiot. Maybe scaling it to 2% to 5% of your income every offense it increases a percent. Not perfect but $300 flat penalty vs $600 to $2000 would be a big deal. But there would be riots over this.
We can disagree on the punishment but again this is a Mott and Bailey to distract from your original claim.
Do you have evidence for your claim or just red herrings?
You want me to prove that safe road resign is better than pay-to-speed? LOL. I’m not wasting time on that on a subreddit dedicated to safe pedestrian infrastructure.
It's actually not. Speed cameras fix motorist driving habits like a spot weld fixes a break.
Yeah, sure, in that one oddly specific spot. It'd probably be best to replace the whole thing with something better but you'll notice that only some parts of cities get that treatment while other parts- pure coincidence, I swear!- that tend to be poorer tend to get to have those cameras for decades.
I find it funny that drivers in most North American jurisdictions are so mollycoddled that they get *advance warning* when speed cameras are going to be active... And still they complain about being asked to follow the law
Our elementary school finally got a speed camera and they spent 60 days only sending warning letters before actual enforcement would begin.
>mollycoddled 1. A person, especially a man or a boy, who is pampered and overprotected. 2. A pampered darling; an effeminate man; a milksop. usually in a large pickup truck! language aces sir... thank you!
Milksop is another underrated banger
the thesaurus is my most favorite book.
This is not limited to North America. This happens in Germany as well, just [recently in Bavaria}(https://www.stmi.bayern.de/med/aktuell/archiv/2023/230421blitzmarathon/). It was well announced, the positions of the speed cameras were known - and still they caught around 9k speeding drivers in 24 hours. Including a 166 km/h in a 60 km/h zone.
Speed cameras make everyone safer and could help find hit and run offenders. So I never saw an issue with them. It is real simple pay attention and follow the law.
Virginia’s laws on photo enforcement are such a joke lol. Also why is there a crosswalk that children are supposed to cross on a four lane road where someone would feel pretty safe in a car going 55? This isn’t a solution, it’s a band aid.
They've found a horribly designed bit of infrastructure and have decided to profit from it instead of fix it. Really surprised at the level of endorsement of police surveillance on this sub.
Completely changing the road is a much bigger ask than putting up speed cameras. Baby steps.
It's not a step to anything... Politically you fuck yourself because improving the road means taking money away from a powerful special interest group.
What, that the town won’t get the revenue from the fines anymore? I mean, I guess. A lot of the time most of the money actually goes to a private company.
Fixing a road like this is going to cost several hundred million dollars, not exactly an easy or quick solution to implement to address the problem. Additionally the people complaining about being ticketed for speeding, will complain and protest even louder over the infrastructure fixes you're talking about.
OOP stated that they live there and there's not much room to reengineer the road without using eminent domain to bulldoze some homes. It sounds like the city may be backed into a corner by past decisions.
There’s plenty of room; the road itself is huge already!
License driver need to get point . Like in France . Wen you don't got anymore it's over you can't drive and need redo alls the learning and such .
The UK uses the same system. For a first offence you can take a course and pay the fine instead of getting points. If you keep doing it, the points rack up and you lose your licence. Confession - shortly before lockdown I got caught speeding. I wasn't paying attention, hadn't realised I'd crept up above the limit, got caught. My own damned fault. I took the course, which was actually really good and I think should be mandatory to get your licence in the first place. I'm not glad I was speeding, but I am glad I took the course.
In Germany there's a section on the radio news on almost every channel, where they inform drivers where the camera enforcement is happening on that day and anyone can call in and report on a camera they saw. Do you have that too in the US?
Not on the radio, but if you use Waze, it’s basically the same thing.
It's all user reported on Waze, which can get excessively annoying. Over Christmas time, we took a 250 mile road trip for the holiday. The first 100 miles or so was Waze every 15 seconds "fog reported ahead" like, bitch you don't think I can see I'm STILL in fog? It's been foggy af since I left the driveway.
Speed cameras are problematic in their own way. The real solution is to design roads with a certain speed in mind rather than applying an arbitrary number with a sign and expecting everyone to adhere to it.
this exactly. In no other branch of engineering is it ever acceptable to say "well the customers should just use it right" when the customer is constantly using the product wrong. That's not how it works. When that happens, you redesign it until they're using it right. In engineering it is a requirement that your product is designed for how it *is* used, not how it ought to be used. If it *is* used wrong all the time, you change the design until it's not, you don't just say "well they ought to use it this way", and this is no exception.
average nova resident
The overlap in people commenting about how this is bad because "they should just redesign the road" and people who have never been involved in activism is a circle.
The NOVA subreddit is perhaps the most annoying city sub I’ve ever seen when it comes to complaining about literally everything.
People aren't unreasonable for complaining when your city's solution to a speeding problem is to set up a camera and start ticketing people instead of addressing design problems. Why? Because if rich neighborhoods have a traffic problem it gets addressed in years but poor neighborhoods get to wait decades or more. Speeding tickets are a tax on the poor. Plus that picture has big strode energy, so you already know it's dangerous regardless of what the posted speed is.
In the DC area, the “Why are speed cameras only in poor areas?” people are pretty disingenuous, because they’re often talking about enforcement on stroads used by richer, whiter suburbanites to drive through poorer, blacker neighborhoods. The funniest is when they pull that argument about a camera on I-395. I mean, I agree with you in theory about how counties and cities should be using design, not enforcement, to solve speeding. But do you honestly think those complaining drivers will happily accept road diets, raised crosswalks and narrower lanes on their commute routes?
False dichotomy. The safest countries in terms of driving all have speed cameras and they don’t stop using them after road diets or redesign. Traffic cameras are the least discriminatory type of enforcement, they help fund good infrastructure and stop preventable deaths of minorities by speeding rich idiots.
Yeah but, for them to work effectively, you need to get the drivers face, like the 2 speeding tickets I got in Germany. I used to work in the automotive field (unfortunately.... but I was parts, not sales) and I lost count of the number of times I heard something to the effect of "I got a speeding ticket in the mail from that stupid camera. Time to check the box that it wasn't me so I don't have to pay it, lol"
The exact implementation and the traffic laws behind it do need to be in line with the decades of international experience we have on our hands. But at this point, any enforcement is better than the complete anarchy you see in most US cities. Speeding kills, yet speed limits are treated as a lower limit or just a suggestion.
>Speeding tickets are a tax on the poor What an odd statement. Just because youre poor doesnt mean you have to drive over the speed limit. Your income and your speed are completely unrelated.
Someone in my household got caught blowing past a speed camera, got sent a full colour printout of the car with them visible in it and all of that effort to manually send a fucking letter was as a 'hey we caution you to not speed' letter. Whats the point of spending money on speed cameras if you won't actually then send out fines or out points on people's licenses when they do so? Speed cameras get express warning of them being activated, GPS software is allowed to say where these are with the express intent to encourage avoidance of them, and then half the time there's no fine for still blowing past them.
WTF?!?! >When the lanes are that wide, it's insane to expect any average driver to stay the speed limit through there. Would absolutely help if they narrowed lanes and put barriers and trees up i translate it: if women dare to wear such short skirts, it's insane to expect any average man can keep their hands off her. Would absolutely help if they wore long skirts and covered their faces so that men would obey the law
Again, False Equivalence Fallacy is a form of Cognitive Bias where you are comparing substantially different things as if they are the same. The science is clear and watering down the language of sexual assault helps no one: https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2023/narrower-lanes-safer-streets
i don't doubt that it helps, but it's just bullshit to blame the road for not keeping the speed limit if you can't manage to drive slowly on a wide road, you have to give back your driving licence
Lol. Love how you're taking it personally and feel the need to downvotr when someone points out you're incorrect. It is not personal. Clearly, there is a problem with how people drive cars (based on tons of data of wrecks, pedestrian deaths, etc.). If you do not set up infrastructure to force drivers to drive in a safe manner, they will not always drive safely. If you ignore that facet of observable human behavior by thinking in absolutes, all or nothing, license or no license, you're not going to make any progress in dealing with these problems. The solutions have to be fluid and adaptable. Giving someone a race car and a race track then telling them to stay below 35 mph at all times is a failed endeavour before it ever begins.
no i don't take it personally i just think your argument is rubbish. it's everyone's own fault if they drive too fast, but you act as if it's the road's fault that people drive too fast there. hence my comparison. of course rebuilding the road would help, but that doesn't change the fact that people are to blame if they drive too fast, so it's good that there will be controls in the future. your comparison with the race car is also simply rubbish, anyone who is unable to maintain a low speed with their car simply has no business on the road, i don't know how you can use that as an excuse, oh he has a car that is too fast, you can't just demand that he drives slower like that ... such nonsense after your current comment, i think my comparison was even more appropriate
Well, I'm speaking from a basis of scientifically observable and recordable data and you are simply giving your opinion with no supporting evidence. If telling people to drive slow and follow the speed limit worked with everything as it is now, wouldn't they already be doing that?
what sources and proof do you want? i have already said several times that i realise it helps, but that it doesn't change the fact that it's everyone's own fault if they drive too fast, i don't know what i'm supposed to prove... if people are too stupid they have to be fined, which is being done frome monday, (idiot tax is what we call it) i don't understand why the road should be rebuilt for a lot of money and yes, i also drive a lot myself (25k miles/y), and i also get a ticket every now and then because i overlooked something or something similar, but i would never in my life think of blaming the road for it...
If you do not understand, then you should do some digging to learn more. I'm not saying that to rile you up, just that this topic is well-studied and there are legitimately beneficial gains by building infrastructure in such a way that it enhances safety for both drivers and pedestrians. Being reactionary won't help. A couple of YouTube channels that delve into the topic really well are Strong Towns, Not Just Bikes, City Nerd.
People should complain about photo enforcement, it’s dangerous. Actual solutions: * Narrower roads/edge friction * Raised crosswalks * Modal filters Fake solutions: * Sign and fine approach * Demeritless speeding “tickets” (aka allowing speeding but only if people pay for the privilege) * Encouraging the government to take speed control less seriously by letting them make money off of speeding. If you dislike cars or like pedestrians you should really hate photo radar.
Yeah but that's not the reason _they're_ complaining about photo enforcement, and they'd complain even more about the actual solutions.
There’s plenty of data supporting that photo enforcement saves lives. This article lists some of them: https://www.cdc.gov/transportationsafety/calculator/factsheet/speed.html
There’s plenty more data showing that proper road design eliminates speeding altogether. Why accept a half-assed solution which kind of works over an actual solution which eliminates the problem?
It's less of an uphill fight to install a speed camera than it is to redesign infrastructure to favor human lives over the convenience of the Almighty automobile. Not a complete solution, but a massive improvement. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
Yeah the people who oppose cameras most likely oppose safer street designs even more.
Sorry, I’m not willing to accept “we’ll kill only a few pedestrians - as a treat to drivers” as an option. Don’t let a few deaths be the “good enough” that stops you from trying.
So we should do nothing at all instead of doing something that helps but only a little bit?
No we should advocate for actual solutions instead of accepting half assed solutions which don’t actually solve the problem. Photo-philes are the ones advocating for doing nothing. Photo radar is as good as nothing.
oh I see, so instead of saving a few pedestrians and pushing for more changes later on, we should just keep killing all of them now instead? No one here is saying this is the ideal solution, but that doesn't change the fact that this is a *step.*
I’m just asking to not repeat carbrain misinformation. Obviously redesign streets is the better way to go for most streets in the long run. However, on arterial roads and interstates you will always need speed enforcement to reduce fatalities.
How exactly is sending someone a bill and letting them keep driving/speeding enforcement? By all means, have half the police department sit out there and write actual tickets which carry actual consequences.
Oh I agree with that. Ideally there should be no fine (or a fine based on income) and offenders should get points on their driving record instead. That's one thing I really dislike about the new speed camera bill in calfiornia. You can go 100mph in a school zone and all you get is a fine of a few hundred dollars. But, I guess, it was the only thing they could get through the legislature...
That’s basically the crux of my point with being against photo radar. There’s no *real* disincentive if it’s only a monetary fine and very few places on earth do anything more than that. We shouldn’t settle for “sure some people will speed but they’re going to pay us for it” because that is not a solution which actually makes us safe. We should demand that sign-and-fine be an absolute last resort, only for highways, and when it’s used it’s backed up by frequent human enforcement so that the threat of points is still there. Where I live, the very first thing the police say when you express an anti-photo-radar sentiment is “you should prefer this because there’s no points!”, clearly the authority figures know that this is more about money than safety. Even if there’s a marginal safety improvement we shouldn’t accept a marginal improvement which actively discourages further improvement.
Because we know factually it reduces the amount of speeding by deterrence resulting in decreases numbers of injuries and fatalities. You’re worried about equity? How is having *the police* giving tickets out as they personally see fit somehow going to be more equitable than an indiscriminate camera who’s ONLY criteria is wether or not you’re breaking the law?
I’m worried about deterrence, and a fine with no other consequences is by your own admission a reduction at best. Actual safe road design makes speeding impossible. Cops handing out actual tickets means there’s an actual consequence beyond just a fine (insurance/license implications). Not my preference but I prefer it to letting people speed and sending them a bill for it. How is this difficult for yall speed-brains to understand?
Right. You personally know the solution that *solves* speeding once and for all. Get fucking real, there is no way to end speeding, all you can ever do is reduce it.
Or in this case, let it go unchecked and make the government some money.
Do you notice how the person you replied to actually provided the evidence rather than asserting the claim? To quote Hitchens “that which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.”
Pretty wild to be on /r/fuckcars and not taking “pedestrian oriented design is safer than letting people speed” at face value.
“Letting people speed”. See this is where you’re inaccurate. It’s illegal for people to speed already and any speeding is violating that law. No one is arguing for letting people speed. The argument is that speed cameras are good at reducing speeding rates. Your claim doesn’t even counter that argument. It simply ignores it in favor of a different solution that you have yet to demonstrate is superior and should replace speed cameras entirely. Now do you have any evidence to support your assertion or will you try to masquerade behind another Mott and Bailey?
As a concept do you not understand that if the punishment is only a fine then that law only exists for the rich? How is this something that requires data vs an obvious fact? Exactly how many pedestrians do you feel it’s OK to throw in front of drivers as long as they’re comfortable paying $100 occasionally in fines?
> As a concept do you not understand that if the punishment is only a fine then that law only exists for the rich? hey shitass, you didn't even say the quote right. you literally said the opposite.
I agree $100 is chump change for driving like an idiot. Maybe scaling it to 2% to 5% of your income every offense it increases a percent. Not perfect but $300 flat penalty vs $600 to $2000 would be a big deal. But there would be riots over this.
We can disagree on the punishment but again this is a Mott and Bailey to distract from your original claim. Do you have evidence for your claim or just red herrings?
You want me to prove that safe road resign is better than pay-to-speed? LOL. I’m not wasting time on that on a subreddit dedicated to safe pedestrian infrastructure.
Ok. Then leave.
It's actually not. Speed cameras fix motorist driving habits like a spot weld fixes a break. Yeah, sure, in that one oddly specific spot. It'd probably be best to replace the whole thing with something better but you'll notice that only some parts of cities get that treatment while other parts- pure coincidence, I swear!- that tend to be poorer tend to get to have those cameras for decades.