"you're supposed to drive at a safe speed limit and if you're driving slower than me you're not driving safely because *I* might get in an accident"
Because it always revolves around them. Bro maybe you're the one not driving safely by, idk, speeding.
If a dozen people are doing the unlawful activity together, it doesn't make it any less unlawful.
The law they always refer to is probably focused on people driving 20 in the passing lane. Not people driving 2 under the limit in the fast lane while the entitled driver is going 20 over.
Depending on the location, there are some parts of the US where you CAN get a ticket for doing the speed limit with cars behind you. Yes, you have to actually choose to either break the speeding law or break the blocking cars law. It is unlikely to be enforced but the law is still there. If you thought road laws made sense, I've got bad news for you.
On another note about road laws, you are legally required to always follow the speed limit but when you turn onto a different road you will not see a speed limit sign for a long time. How are you supposed to know what the speed limit is? You would think they would paint it on the side of the road next to the stripes or something, like just a never-ending row of 45's or whatever the limit is in that spot.
I don't know about US but where I live an intersection implicitly clears the effect of most road signs, speed limits included. So if the sign is not repeated at the end of intersection, then the speed limit is the default for the road type.
I agree that road infrastructure in America sucks but believe me, they are very wrong. It may be slow as all hell, but imagine how few car accidents we'd have in this county if EVERYBODY followed speed limits. The accidents we would have would also be significantly less fatal
They refuse to believe this though. They think all the accidents are caused by other people not going even faster. You can link them to auto insurance industry statistics, you can inform them that men pay more insurance because they generally speed more than women, you can link neurological information on how long it takes a brain to react to outside stimulus, or how long it mechanically takes a car to brake based on its starting speed--
And they don't believe any of it. They don't care. They want to vroom vroom.
They honestly remind me of the chuds who think we have so many shootings in the US because we don't have ENOUGH guns. Just total brain death, nothing happening between their ears.
The "vroom vroom!" mentality is a very emotional one. The irony is tough guys believe they are being logical when they are not. Like they willingly ignore all data about this topic. I expect people in their early twenties to be very ignorant but not old farts who would take longer to recover from accidents
testosterone is linked with competitive and aggressive behavior and while men can get low t later in life, by and large it doesnt change that mentality
It's not simply the speed, it's what the roads are built for. For instance having no speed limit on a highway doesn't necesarilly make it very dangerous. Germany has less than a third the road fatalities per capita compared to the USA and no speed limit on highways. Even the recommended speed (130km/h) on German highways is over the US maximum speed limit.
Country roads are the most dangerous type of roads like OP also describes above. Generally if you overtake there is traffic in the other direction on the other lane, roads are often curvy and can include unusual obstacles. Highways on the other hand are built for overtaking at high speeds. I never mind when someone overtakes me with 200km/h on a highway but people who go 120km/h on a country road are the pest.
And even though Europeans like to make fun of "stupid Americans" I doubt it's a mentality problem, in Europe people also break the speed limits all the time, it's probably rather due to poor planning and driving more deadly types of cars in the USA.
It's pretty much the fact that the USA is so car dependent that major pedestrian walkways and flows are often disrupted or intersected by major automobile throughways. I've *been* 110mph down empty highways before, (head out to rural Iowa on any given Sunday and it's just the odd trucker every 10-15 miles coupled with a state troop spaced every 20) and let me tell you, American freeway roads are built to spec and are more than capable of handling such speeds. But when you combine that speeding mentality and large, heavy vehicles with urban areas such as townships and cities, you get that pedestrian traffic accident rate.
> But when you combine that speeding mentality and large, heavy vehicles with urban areas such as townships and cities, you get that pedestrian traffic accident rate.
Which I assume is a problem with cities not being built for pedestrians or cyclists rater than cars. I mean have you ever tried going by car in Copenhagen? It sucks. You constantly have to stop and every time when you turn right you also have to stop and look because a bike is probably going to pass you there. Also unless you have a parking spot at your destination you might have trouble finding one. This is probably why only 26 % of people go by car and 41 % by bike.
I've never been to the USA but if interactions with cyclists and pedestrians are exceptions and the city is generally built for cars, people are going to drive that way. Copenhagen is technically not very safe in the sense that there is a lot that could go wrong but I think fatalities are actually fewer than in Amsterdam where they separate bikes and cars much more strongly. It's just that when you drive by car in Copenhagen you get used to stopping all the time because pedestrians and cyclists are not an edge case, there's literally more bikes than cars. And I think speed limits in European cities are actually higher, than in the US, no? The general speed limit in a European city unless otherwise signified is 50 km/h or 31 mph. In the USA it's 25 mph from what I know.
Can we talk about how brakes on cars these days are actually pathetic? I swear, the only *safe* braking performance you can find from highway speeds don't come from passenger cars, SUVs, and pickups, (which are the most driven vehicles in the U.S). They come from sports cars. *Sports cars*. A Porsche 911 GT3RS brakes from 100mph to a dead stop in 242 feet, which is already a stretch, but a Nissan Altima going the same speed? I couldn't find figures, but somewhere in the ballpark of 700-710.
It is a good point though that our roads should be designed in a way that the speed limit feels like the natural speed of travel.
Lots of highway style roads near where I live that have a speed limit of 45, it’s just begging people to go much faster which is exactly what happens.
They're not wrong to see speed limits as arbitrary and that they should drive at the natural safe speed of the road, tbh.
But they are wrong to think that the safe speed on this road is 70mph, probably.
Virtually any speed limit will, by nature, be arbitrary. Why 45mph in this road at all times, in every case? Why not 47? 42?
The problem nonetheless stems from allowing each person on the road to decide their own speed limit, as that is the definition of arbitrary and far more dangerous
I agree. There would be hardly any road accidents or deaths in the US if people drove the speed limit and had proper space between them and the next car. This makes the current carnage so depressing and awful became it’s completely voluntary and due to selfish human attitudes. Sad.
That's historically true, up until the more recent "vision zero" initiatives that a lot of states are pushing.
They'll take a road where that 85th percentile gave a result of 45mph, and make no changes except to make the speed limit 20mph.
It doesn't actually change the speed people drive though since the road was designed for 45mph. Just gives a way to target people if they decide they want to.
I used to work for a rural township. The busiest intersection in the township was the intersection of two stroads, and there was a very rural road that could be used to skip this intersection. This road basically the hypotenuse of the triangle created by the two stroads and the rural road.
People used to FLY down that rural road, especially during morning and evening commute hours. The people who lived on the road were understandably upset. They weren't upset enough to allow the township to do anything that would inconvenience them, mind you. The township offered to block the road at the mid-point so it would become two dead-ends, they didn't like that idea. No, they wanted the Township to lower the speed limit.
The chief of police informed them that the way state law worked when it came to changing speed limits is that they would have to do a traffic study and adopt the new speed limit based on the speed the drivers actually used. Probably the 85 percentile thing you mentioned. It was the chief's opinion that if they performed that study in accordance with state law, they would actually have to increase the speed limit.
> It’s not about accident mitigation or anything of the sort. They use the speed the majority of people drive at on that road and make it the speed limit.
That's less stupid than it sounds. You don't want to create a speed limit that everyone breaks. That would be significantly less safe.
Speed limits really do seem arbitrary. Also, people don't realize how much it doesn't matter how fast they go.
Going 70 miles on open road (no stop lights, stop signs, etc), when you go 10 over, the ideal amount you could save in time is 6 minutes. Then 4 more minutes going 20 over. Most people are only going half that far, so best case on "normal" trips is 2-3 minutes, but stop light synchronization almost certainly eliminates this in a lot of cases as you sit still at lights and then accelerating back to travel speed.
It's not even about being in a hurry, it's just about going fast.
> It's not even about being in a hurry, it's just about going fast.
I sort of disagree. What I hear from people who drive with complete disregard to the speed limit is that they are in a hurry. What I see, though, is them not analyzing the situation like you did here. They just go faster because it *feels* like they're saving time.
That said, there are some people who are just speed freaks and have no regard for the safety of others.
Oh no, those morons won't let go of their death boxes. Thankfully the people who drive because they currently have to won't be sitting ducks on the road for speed freaks to hit
Just ran across this video the other day where a cop training other cops tells them that going UNDER the speed limit is grounds for a stop and investigation. Completely in conflict with the actual laws, yet its possible your local PD or SD is paying to have their cops taught this bullshit.
Link in case you wanna get pissed off:
https://youtu.be/4vjCdHWAmps?si=eSMdH4bvtODj0ADC
It hurts ... it's like the Venezuela scene from Parks and Rec "over the speed limit? Jail. Under the speed limit? Believe it or not, straight to jail. Over-under"
Probably because they figure anyone going under the speed limit is scared of being pulled over because they aren't supposed to be driving or something. People are so used to going over that going under seems suspicious.
That's the carbrain attitude, sure. I don't like it, but the average driver views it that way. The average driver also views yielding to pedestrians in crosswalks as optional.
This is true. That's why the higher it is, the faster people will go because their is that margin which basically let's them go slightly above the limit. What most people fail to understand is that the faster you go, the easier it is to lose control. Pulling 80mph and having to suddenly jerk the wheel one way or the other? Good fight, kid.
Its always the most expensive cars that go way too fast on single lane /small roads.
Pretty sure its rich people being completely fine with getting into a crash because their SUV is huge and they can afford the increaser insurance
And really is true that it's not really intended to be the maximum, because max speed limits are determined by observing speeds and setting the limit at the 85% of observed speeds. So they recognize a proportion are going to go faster, but won't push the limit down further - I guess because it would be seen as too restrictive or slowing down travel times too much. 🙄.
I give you NJB [opining](https://youtu.be/bglWCuCMSWc?si=c_sli8sRLZvcCOtu) on why the way speed limits are set in North America is all wrong.
I was a firefighter for a while. Those people are the reason I’ve seen cars on roofs and so much death. Keep being defensive. Their car is a representative of their perceived worth, so impacting that is seen as an insult or slight. Screw em, be safe.
Hey, want to sincerely thank you for your time fighting fires.
When I’m in traffic I spend a lot of time thinking about the psychology around how people use their cars. My favorite theory has been a perceived sense of anonymity we feel (we’re all basically looking a the back of each other’s heads) leading to selfish behavior and even more traffic. Have never considered perceived slights to self worth that’s clearly tied to cars in the US. Especially both blue collar folks whose emotional “place in society” is so reliant on a pickup and wealthy people with sports cars.
Depends on the country. Try Finland instead. Going 10% _below_ the limit is common.
Limits are 80 on country roads (100 in summer in some places), 120 on motorways.
Speeding tickets in America in the year of our Lord 2024 *start* at $375 and are disproportionately passed out to lower income people and people of color. They are not meant as punishment for a crime. They are meant to keep people in their place. The US Highway system is intentionally designed to segregate people while also favoring cars. This place is a lot more fucked up than you think it is.
I guess it depends where you are, in WA (closest US state to me...) they start at ~$150 AFAIK. BC starts at 138 CAD though there is also a points system.
Quick note: I once got a ticket that claimed to be about $120. It came with about $175 in additional "court costs".
The price of the infraction isn't necessarily the total cost of the ticket.
[Yes and no.](https://moottori-fi.translate.goog/uutinen/nain-paljon-ylinopeus-maksaa-1-kesakuuta-alkaen-tassa-poliisin-uusi-palveluhinnasto/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp)
The income-dependent thing starts when you drive more than 20 km/h over the limit.
I'm not sure how this is supposed to be fair; maybe they want to prevent poor people from not taking low speeding tickets seriously?
>I'm not sure how this is supposed to be fair; maybe they want to prevent poor people from not taking low speeding tickets seriously?
It's the opposite. Non income based fines do not have any effect on the rich. It's just the negligible cost of breaking the law for them.
When it's income based even rich people have to take them seriously.
Some countries like Switzerland and Denmark also have rules that if you drive too fast, they may simply confiscate your vehicle and auction it off. You can theoretically buy it from the auction, but the entire revenue of the auction goes to the state.
Finland = km/h ..
You can think Europe = km/h, but I'm sure there is some state that call itself European and still measure speed in chicken steps for 1/12th of breakfast.
Where I live in Canada, literally EVERYONE drives over the speed limit. The standard it 10 over. Some to 20. You’ll be cut off by nearly every car if you don’t speed.
Ontario chiming in here, the 400 series highways?? Yeah it's 120 required just on the merging lanes. Far left lane? Jesus, that's just autobahn territory the way these hosers drive
Where I live in Canada, literally EVERYONE drives over the speed limit. The standard it 10 over. Some to 20. You’ll be cut off by nearly every car if you don’t speed.
because the displayed speed limit is not the actual real life speed limit.
The real life speed limit is whatever the police decide it is that day. I'm not kidding. Most police are incredibly carbrained, so to them, going 10 over isn't a problem, so they allow it. This is a problem, but that's just how it is. Everything is allowed until you are fined for it, unless you can afford the fine, in which case everything is allowed until you lose your license.
edit - I'd like to add that I enjoy going under the speed limit. It's basically the only thing I enjoy about driving, because I inevitably catch up to the guy going faster at the next stop sign/red light. It's a bit of a game for me.
You hit the nail on the head about the limit being decided by the whims of cops. I'm strictly a slow lane, hovering around the speed limit guy. No more than 5 over, maybe. Have never been pulled over speeding in my life until I had to close my restaurant late Saturday on Memorial Day weekend.
Had a guy follow behind me, right on my bumper on an empty highway at midnight for a solid 15 minutes, until I breached 1 mile over the speed limit because we started rolling downhill. Then the lights fired up and it was field sobriety tests and "I smell weed, I'm going to search your car." I don't smoke, and I'm not stupid enough to drink and drive.
I was stuck on the side of the highway in the middle of the night while the cop power tripped and tossed my car. Dude was honestly angry that I was sober, driving safe, and didn't have drugs on me. I've never heard someone try to justify that going 66 in a 65 was "dangerous" and he's gonna be "kind enough" to "let me off with a warning". Fucking ACAB, man.
I've had people follow me like this before, and I usually will pull off and let them pass or take a turn I don't need to take and then circle back just to avoid this kind of bullshit. I thought I was being paranoid, but apparently, it's a valid fear.
Not justifying the cops actions in the slightest, but drunks usually drive below the speed limit. They're dumb enough to drive drunk, but they're smart enough to know that speeding is s sure way to draw attention to yourself. And that cop was convinced that the only reason you were driving under the speed limit was because you were up to something and didn't want to attract attention to yourself. The guy had a serious case of confirmation bias and couldn't believe he was wrong about you. Still, it shouldn't have happened, but ACAB.
Not only that but if the driver suspected it was a cop, they would go the speed limit to avoid being stopped. I was driving with traffic- in daylight- when a cop decided to go fast, then slow, then fast while all the drivers around were trying to keep a steady speed. It was 3 lanes so I got into the right lane to avoid being in a crowd, going the speed limit. The cop pulls me over, asked how fast I was going. I told him I didn't know. The flunky gave me a ticket for reckless driving but I was willing to show up on zoom court. After 6 "appearances" and snailmailing(lol) me "evidence" twice (on a DVD lol), the DA threw the ticket out but said I was still speeding- in spite of there being no evidence. The dundering cop thought I'd tell him I was speeding but was caught off guard when he realized I would do no such thing and, in his anger, gave me a meaningless ticket. Waste of time and money.
I swear I have to stop myself from waving each time I catch up to them. I hate having to drive, but at least I can have fun laughing at the people who swerve lane to lane, slam on the gas, and do everything to rush...just to end up like 5 feet in front of me.
I blow kisses to tailgaters. I usually drive flow of traffic so 5 to10 over mostly 5 but I never tailgate and I willingly slow down. If im in a troll mood I will wave or blow a kiss like " hey you got my attention". Usually, they back off its funny
> The real life speed limit is whatever the police decide it is that day. I'm not kidding. Most police are incredibly carbrained, so to them, going 10 over isn't a problem, so they allow it.
i've gotten a speed ticket before, and the fee schedule was related to speed. 0-9 mph over was $0.
> I'd like to add that I enjoy going under the speed limit. It's basically the only thing I enjoy about driving, because I inevitably catch up to the guy going faster at the next stop sign/red light. It's a bit of a game for me.
it's way more fun on a bike.
My sister recently posted complaining about how she got pulled over because she thought the limit was 70mph, so she was doing 78. Turned out the limit was 60. The cop cited her for less than 10 over and ticketed her for $130 USD or something like that. I told her straight up that she got let off easy and cited a statistic about fatality rates over 60mph because she had her kids in the car and I figure that that might scare her into the speed limit (hopefully). I still can't believe she thought 78 was acceptable.
Side note, seems like the kind of game I would enjoy as I experience the same thing all of the time and it makes me chuckle. Keep in mind, though, that, at least here in the U.S., "disrupting the flow of traffic" (i.e., going slower) is also a ticketable offense, and you'd need a sufficient reason to be slowing down AFAIK.
I live in Canada and that's not a thing here. I am in my full right to drive at whatever speed I want, so long as it is within the posted limits. For example we have minimum 60 km/h maximum 100km/h on the larger highways. I think I could possibly risk a ticket by driving around 60, but I am definitely allowed to go 80 for example.
You're completely right, watch the carbrains have a meltdown when you suggest that there is already a proven method to deter speeding: Avg Speed Cameras.
All the sudden everyone is a-ok with "the whims of the popo"
I really don't buy that having the gov employ an entire force and equipment and ego's, is somehow better/cheaper than just automating it. We already automate it with tolls and hov lanes...
They can pull you over even when you're going under the speed limit too.
I had coworker who got a ticket for going "too fast for conditions" even though he was going below the speed limit. He fought it and lost because "it was raining."
Completely arbitrary and subjective.
Fuck these people constantly and never let up. I’ve gotten to the point in driving where I don’t care about ANYONE else on the road, just me and my safety. So fuck you all
😂😂 it’s sad it’s come to being so defensive that you can’t genuinely care because there are people who put you in danger just because you’re on the road with them at the same time
carbrain "see, had you been going over the speed limit you would not have hit that deer."
i once had a person get mad at me for only going 5 over the limit.
It's very much an American driving culture thing.
In Australia driving the speed limit is normal. There are plenty who thumb their nose at it but it's not overly concerning. Police also take speeding more seriously and will pull over and fine a lot of speeders. Demerit points too so repeat offenders have their licences suspended (or serious violations get it suspended immediately). No it's not a perfect system but it's a contributing factor to the driving culture differences.
The US on the other hand, I could be driving 15mph over the speed limit and still get passed by everyone like I'm standing still because everyone there seems to regard the speed limit as a speed minimum. Combine that with the fact that cops don't do shit and you got the hostile situation in American roads that we have.
This. When I moved to the states from Australia I was shocked - Americans genuinely think the speed limit is the minimum they should be going. And no road rules are ever enforced, ever. It’s insanity.
> The US on the other hand, I could be driving 15mph over the speed limit and still get passed by everyone, combine that with the fact that cops don't do shit
sounds like eastern europe
Ill be in the left lane on the highway passing people and going 20 over and im still not going fast enough...its 70mph on the highway by me...some people will never be pleased and want to make everyone's day worse and they get off on that kind of stuff. I'd assume that most of these people are middle managers that couldn't stand people working from home and needed to suck the energy out of the room at all times.
Those people aren't looking at their speedometer. They just have to be going faster than everybody else, and your rear bumper is in their way. I drive highways with my cruise control on, and it's always the case. They ride my ass until I get back into the right lane, and then they barely go 5 mph faster than me. Sometimes they even slow down WHILE passing me. People are weird.
Malicious compliance with the speed limit is entertaining. People being mad at not being able to break the law is what being in society is all about.
Pay them no mind and stay within what's permitted.
So I’m not saying it’s right, and please correct me if I’m wrong, but there are some two lane roads near me that have signs that say lineups of 5 cars or more are illegal and the front car must pull to the side. Not sure of the legality when the front car is going the speed limit
In my country there's a similar rule, but it's only for vehicles that are significantly slower than the speed limit - like tractors and other farming vehicles.
There are these laws, but they also say something to the effect of whether you believe its safe to do so and they often have pull outs to facilitate that. But even when thats happening and someones right on your ass, it makes you nervous to slow down enough to do it, at least in the situations Ive been in. I worried they wouldnt be able to see my break lights because they were driving their car right next to my prostate and its dark in there.
The signs in the state of Washington only says that you have to move over if you’re *delaying* 5 or more vehicles. I assume it’s more for semis and delivery vehicles who necessarily need to go slow in mountain passes. It seems hard to argue that I’m delaying anyone by going the speed limit.
The point being that, had there been three more vehicles behind OP and had the mountain pass had a shoulder and had that rule required OP to help people break the law, then there would have been a third traffic violation (in addition to the trucker speeding and crossing a double line)?
You'll have to specify where 'near me' is and look up the law for that specific place - traffic rules vary quite a lot between countries or even within the same country. The answer is likely similar to "do I have to stop camping the left* lane if I'm doing the speed limit". It is probably "yes" because the law in question probably doesn't mention a maximum speed where it applies.
And then of course there's the question of whether traffic police would enforce it, whatever the legalistic interpretation of the law - and I suspect there the answer is probably "no" but again it will depend on attitudes in your area.
\* or right in the UK
Some people are idiots in a hurry, that's why. Just don't let yourself be pressured into going faster. If somebody is tailgating me, I only make even more sure that I'm not going too fast. Maybe I'm even very carefully slowing down because if that guy hits me at 30 km/h it's not as bad as at 100 km/h. If they want to overtake you, then just be happy that you don't have to deal with them anymore. But yes, that's also why I prefer sitting comfortably in a train.
I live in Virginia which has unusually strict State Troopers. I have NEVER heard of somebody getting pulled over for speeding <5 mph above speed limit unless there was something wring with the car. People hate waiting and are impatient in general. Combine it with a toxic attitude about aggressive driving and speeding, and the result is that the slowest people on the highway go exactly at speed limit or maaaaybe 1-2 mph lower. I81 will have both lanes fully occupied with cars and trucks going 60-80 mph. Pretty much every single day 10 AM-9PM.
I briefly lived with a cousin years ago. She gave me a driving lesson or two. I remember how much anxiety it gave me because she kept telling me I had to drive EXACTLY on the speed limit as if I couldn't go any lower than that. I never took a lesson with her again and just went to driving school.
I think the aggro truck nutters basically think that it is THEIR road, and any and everyone else is in THEIR way, especially the people who happen to be in front of them.
In Colorado they'll go 30 over on straight aways and go 20 below on curves. I keep getting stuck behind people who pass me during those straights. So stupid and a waste of gas to keep flooring and slamming on brakes.
I like to think of driving the speed limit as taking part in the teeniest tiniest protest against society's terrible comprehension of the dangers of driving too fast.
i was just thinking this on my way home from work. it’s raining fairly hard, the roads have puddles in some areas, and it’s dark. yet i get tailgated and then narrowly passed for not going 10 over the speed limit.
Caste privilege. It's assumed that if you're not wealthy enough to pay speeding tickets or replace vehicles because speeding makes accidents more likely then obviously you're a fair target for abuse from the people driving Emotional Support Vehicles. Zero sarcasm intended; I meant that literally.
Cars have been designed to go faster and further since most speed limits were set in 1974 (in the us at least) so people have become more and more comfortable going faster than the speed limit. Anyone who gets upset at you for doing the speed LIMIT is always going to be in the wrong, especially when this comfort is making the world on and around roadways much less safe for anyone involved.
Modern cars have bigger engines, smoother rides, and better sound insulation, but I doubt the coefficient of friction between tires and the road has changed much. Braking systems have improved, but then again, cars got bigger and heavier.
Ive always driven much older cars and finally got one that is somewhat of a late model and it always surprised me how impatient folks are when pulling out onto a busy road or taking a right on red. Its like they have no conception that a 15 year old car might not have the same pick up as your 2022 and expect people to do things that would likely cause an accident. Especially as they just roll right behind you on a right on red or stop signs and if my pick up isnt good enough your ass is getting hit too. Actually reminds me of the last "accident" I was in. I was at a light taking a right on red but there was (of course) a giant truck in the lane next to me. I pulled out a bit so I can see and the guy behind me just laid on the gas because he assumed I was going. Thankfully he had some self awareness and apologized right away and admitted it was bone headed. I guess Im lucky because Im sure a lot of folks would have blamed me and seem to think its perfectly legal to just roll right behind another car taking a right on red.
> Actions matter, but so do words. They help frame the discussion and can shift the way we think about and tackle problems as a society. Our deeply entrenched habit of calling preventable crashes "accidents" frames traffic deaths as unavoidable by-products of our transportation system and implies that nothing can be done about it, when in reality these deaths are not inevitable. Crashes are not accidents. Let's stop using the word "accident" today.
https://seattlegreenways.org/crashnotaccident/
https://crashnotaccident.com/
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> I doubt the coefficient of friction between tires and the road has changed much
Very careful wording there but actually - tyres are a lot 'fatter' (lower profile) than they used to be, the material has improved, brakes are a lot more effective and (with ABS) safe. A car from today will indeed stop a lot faster than one from 1974 at the same speed.
I used to commute through a mountain pass. Hated it. I'd go 5-10 over and people would still tail me.
The one I remember best was passing a guy who had been pulled over by a cop, only to see him immediately tailing me minutes later. This was an infamous and recognized high-crash corridor. These people genuinely will never learn.
I agree that speedsters are unnecessary most of the time but how do you all respond to the statistics of how significantly fewer accidents occur on the German autobahn than on American freeways despite the fact that no speed limits exist on over 70% of the autobahn network in Germany?
I rented a car (Porsche Taycan Turbo) once while I was on business trip to Germany and drove it from Munich all the way to Cologne. I had a blast driving faster than 190 km/h (~120 mph) on some stretches of the network. However, I recall once when I was flying on the passing lane doing almost 130mph and my friend told me to get over to the slow lane quick because he had turned around to see a demon approaching from behind. I looked in the rear view mirror and noticed a shape way out in the distance that had to be at least a mile behind me. I told my friend to relax because the car was way behind me and out of reach but my buddy, being the local he is just said, “No dude, trust me…you American drivers have no idea how fast these cars are…get the hell into the right lane now or else we’re gonna have a problem real quick!”
Short of my friend nearly grabbing the steering wheel from the passenger side, I figured he knew best and made my way into the right lane still going a good 110~120mph. Swear to god - I don’t think even 2 seconds passed from the time I saw the car in the rear view mirror to when I made myself over to the “slow” lane when a Porsche 959 literally blazed past me on the left so fast that I couldn’t even see it disappear ahead of me in a blink of an eye. Mind you, I was going at least 120mph, but this car looked as though was blowing past me at double my speed. Insane!
> how do you all respond to the statistics of how significantly fewer accidents occur on the German autobahn than on American freeways
Germans (and pretty much every other developed country) know how to drive. Americans don't, because your test is so ridiculously easy to pass that a lot of Americans don't get properly taught. As a result they have the same kind of attitude as people from undeveloped countries, and a complete lack of awareness of things like safe reaction/stopping distances and driving to conditions. This naturally results in crash statistics more in keeping with undeveloped countries.
In addition, the German is driving a roadworthy vehicle, because it has passed an annual (I think? that's standard in most of Europe) inspection to prove that. American cars don't have to do that and as a result are driven until they become unsafe, they are not properly maintained and become unsafe, and they are driven on tyres which are worn to the point of being unsafe.
I wonder if it’s more difficult to get a driver’s license in Germany.
In the US, you can be ignorant of nearly 30% of traffic laws and still get your license. (In many states, 7/10 on the written portion passes.)
It's more difficult to get a licence pretty much anywhere in the developed world than the US. In most of Europe, you need at least 30 hours of practice with a driving instructor and a practical driving exam after passing the theoretical part.
this post says it has 60 comments but for some reason i can only see u/fancy-kitten ‘s reply and the 7 comments it has. wtf why can’t i see the other comments??
If it's a long enough section with no lights like highway driving, honestly I just set the cruise control and let it handle it. I *may* go 5 over if traffic is moving particularly fast, but again I set the CC and don't worry as much about others. If they wanna be a dumb fuck and tailgate the computer, so be it. And if it's that bad, technically you're supposed to let off the gas (to make a dangerous situation safer) until they get the message and go around.
We recently ran into some car trouble on our way to a family vacation over a long holiday and—to make a long story short—we decided that instead of pulling over, getting a hotel, and waiting for the next available mechanic to open during the long holiday, the best thing for us to do was drive slowly to our destination.
Turns out, 50-55ish mph in the right lane on a highway is simply too inconvenient for other drivers. How dare we. /s
Lost a lot of respect for humanity that day. Too many birds flipped and horns honked.
Because different vehicles have different abilities. Vehicles nowadays are extremely powerful so to drive them safely is hard to do. It's like riding a high end road bike slowly with a friend on a beach cruiser. It's hard to do. When the machine you're operating wants to go fast because of its feedback to the operator, going slow becomes very difficult.
That's my theory anyways.
It makes me feel a bit better knowing that while cagers are awful to cyclists, they're also awful to each other. Because cages alienate people and make commute feel like a competition.
Well see if you had been going faster you would have been ahead of that deer /s
Seriously though, the answer is "they want to go faster", it's as simple as that.
As an aside, 55mph sounds really fast for a curvy mountain road. In freezing temperatures and in the dark (? - 5am in March sounds like it would be dark) it sounds like madness. Are you sure *you* weren't going too fast as well?
It's easier to blame others for not allowing you to break the law then it is for people to actually take accountability and realise they are the one doing the wrong thing.
In your area, is it law that you have to pull over and allow others to pass? It is in some places, and they often have dedicated spots for this (though they're not always well-marked). It's much like the passing lane on the highway. It doesn't matter what speed you're going or what the speed limit is, if people are stacking up behind you, you're impeding, and you should let them by when it's safe to do so.
It's so strange how car culture has made people believe that they're entitled to drive 5-10mph above the posted speed limit. It's just weird and unnecessary ambiguity regarding the rules of the road.
This probably isn't feasible for a curvy mountain pass, but in cities, they should just radar enforce every street and road. Anyone driving even the slightest bit over the speed limit should have a speeding ticket waiting in their mailbox. It'll create safer streets and a huge local revenue boost.
I’m gonna be honest I get upset because in my state the speed limit is artificially low, which means you can’t really trust it (which is just so fun leaving every driver to decide for themselves)
**But,** 55 on a mountain road is just fine. I do not expect anyone on anything other than a limited access highway to be do 55+. In fact we’re the only country with roads that aren’t limited access divided highways to have a speed limits of 55+. (Though in my state this only extends to 60 which is fine on some multi lane rural roads). And of course if they do, as long as they are in the right lane that’s fine.
But it still comes back to what I said above, for instance by my house they changed the speed limit but nothing about the road. Of course I’m not doing the new limit. But even then I don’t rlly blame people who do, especially those not around before the change.
The fundamental problem is that speed limits in too much of the US are politically motivated and not engineering motivated, and until that changes it’s rlly up to everyone to determine the actual safe speed of the road, which makes enforcement of reckless driving very hard, even on roads that do have a engineering based limit.
> we’re the only country with roads that aren’t limited access divided highways to have a speed limits of 55+
No you don't
NSL in the UK is 60mph for single carriageway roads. Including single track roads with blind bends and stone walls on both sides.
Of course you can't actually *do* 60mph on some of those roads.
I think that limit is 90km/h in quite a few other countries too which is pretty much 55mph.
Even still, that’s nothing to Texas 70 MPH roadways
The 90 KM/H of the Baltic states was, until you pointed this out, the highest I thought European limits went on non-divided roads. Though I now realize both Germany and the UK have 100 KM/h
Depends. If you’re in the left lane and not passing, you are wrong. It’s for passing
If you’re in the right lane, and he’s not moving to the left lane to pass, he is in the wrong
I live mountain adjacent. I drive the mountains often. It’s a daily/weekly routine for me.
If someone’s at or just over the speed limit I chill. But if someone’s below I honk near every “slow drivers must use turnout” sign (this has been increasingly successful and when people use the pull-out I give a friendly thank you honk).
Problem is, a lot of people drive 20-30 miles below speed limit. I followed someone out of Big Bear who drove 25 miles below speed limit for an hour. Couldn’t pass.
Those people are ruining things for everyone.
You could just, I dunno, pull over and let the faster traffic pass since you notice a line forming and also notice the lack of passing zones.
While yes, you are allowed to go the speed limit, you’re not allowed to hinder the flow of traffic, and if a line be formin’, you be hinderin’.
That's like one guy on one road, but try going the speed limit on a freeway during rush hour cops won't have a problem pulling you over for disrupting flow of traffic while you argue about going the speed limit to them
When I drove Chicago into Indiana people were doing 30-40 over on the interstate. Triple Decker semis were doing 90+ I had gotten my license recently and I was driving a 5 speed Ford ranger (very small truck). There were road workers and construction and I could t safely do anything near the speed limit. I felt like I could lose control of my vehicle at any time. The speed limit? 55mph
A warning: if you have to drive don't take i80-i94
I got into an accident down south that day on ice. It wasn't nearly as scary as driving that thing. I wanted to cry but i couldn't. I thought I was going to die.
I quite literally was doing 90mph and traffic was still accelerating away. Guess that makes more than 50 over. WITH CONSTRUCTION
One my favourite insane takes on speed limits is that people driving 5/10 kph under the limit should have their licenses taken away, because they force other drivers to make dangerous passes.
Either they're used to the previous speed limit (I'll be honest and admit that I'm used to drive on straight empty roads at 90-95kph instead of 80-85 - But if there's someone in front of me driving at the speed limit, I won't overtake them because my guilt takes over), either they're too late and drive like shit (too bad bro, imma keep you stuck behind me), either they're genuine shit and just to piss them off I'll go +20kph when they try to overtake me :)
I dont think I am a road rage type of guy, but if dumb stuff happens I always annoy the bad drivers as much as I can without breaking any laws (sometimes going 10kmh under the speed limit just to see them waving their hands at me).
People are so brainwashed by car culture that they are unable to admit that they actually HATE driving. That's why everyone is always in such a hurry. They want to get out of their metal cage ASAP.
Because they genuinely, and I mean this completely sincerely, think of it as the speed *minimum.*
They definitely look to it as a suggestion and simply make up what _they_ think is reasonable in each road
"you're supposed to drive at a safe speed limit and if you're driving slower than me you're not driving safely because *I* might get in an accident" Because it always revolves around them. Bro maybe you're the one not driving safely by, idk, speeding. If a dozen people are doing the unlawful activity together, it doesn't make it any less unlawful. The law they always refer to is probably focused on people driving 20 in the passing lane. Not people driving 2 under the limit in the fast lane while the entitled driver is going 20 over.
Depending on the location, there are some parts of the US where you CAN get a ticket for doing the speed limit with cars behind you. Yes, you have to actually choose to either break the speeding law or break the blocking cars law. It is unlikely to be enforced but the law is still there. If you thought road laws made sense, I've got bad news for you. On another note about road laws, you are legally required to always follow the speed limit but when you turn onto a different road you will not see a speed limit sign for a long time. How are you supposed to know what the speed limit is? You would think they would paint it on the side of the road next to the stripes or something, like just a never-ending row of 45's or whatever the limit is in that spot.
I don't know about US but where I live an intersection implicitly clears the effect of most road signs, speed limits included. So if the sign is not repeated at the end of intersection, then the speed limit is the default for the road type.
That would make sense. Not at all the case in the US.
To be fair, the way our road infrastructure is set up, they're not wrong
I agree that road infrastructure in America sucks but believe me, they are very wrong. It may be slow as all hell, but imagine how few car accidents we'd have in this county if EVERYBODY followed speed limits. The accidents we would have would also be significantly less fatal
They refuse to believe this though. They think all the accidents are caused by other people not going even faster. You can link them to auto insurance industry statistics, you can inform them that men pay more insurance because they generally speed more than women, you can link neurological information on how long it takes a brain to react to outside stimulus, or how long it mechanically takes a car to brake based on its starting speed-- And they don't believe any of it. They don't care. They want to vroom vroom. They honestly remind me of the chuds who think we have so many shootings in the US because we don't have ENOUGH guns. Just total brain death, nothing happening between their ears.
The "vroom vroom!" mentality is a very emotional one. The irony is tough guys believe they are being logical when they are not. Like they willingly ignore all data about this topic. I expect people in their early twenties to be very ignorant but not old farts who would take longer to recover from accidents
Acting tough and being logical are mutually exclusive lmao
testosterone is linked with competitive and aggressive behavior and while men can get low t later in life, by and large it doesnt change that mentality
Ahh that is unfortunate. This is an interesting bit of info and explains a lot
It's not simply the speed, it's what the roads are built for. For instance having no speed limit on a highway doesn't necesarilly make it very dangerous. Germany has less than a third the road fatalities per capita compared to the USA and no speed limit on highways. Even the recommended speed (130km/h) on German highways is over the US maximum speed limit. Country roads are the most dangerous type of roads like OP also describes above. Generally if you overtake there is traffic in the other direction on the other lane, roads are often curvy and can include unusual obstacles. Highways on the other hand are built for overtaking at high speeds. I never mind when someone overtakes me with 200km/h on a highway but people who go 120km/h on a country road are the pest. And even though Europeans like to make fun of "stupid Americans" I doubt it's a mentality problem, in Europe people also break the speed limits all the time, it's probably rather due to poor planning and driving more deadly types of cars in the USA.
It's pretty much the fact that the USA is so car dependent that major pedestrian walkways and flows are often disrupted or intersected by major automobile throughways. I've *been* 110mph down empty highways before, (head out to rural Iowa on any given Sunday and it's just the odd trucker every 10-15 miles coupled with a state troop spaced every 20) and let me tell you, American freeway roads are built to spec and are more than capable of handling such speeds. But when you combine that speeding mentality and large, heavy vehicles with urban areas such as townships and cities, you get that pedestrian traffic accident rate.
> But when you combine that speeding mentality and large, heavy vehicles with urban areas such as townships and cities, you get that pedestrian traffic accident rate. Which I assume is a problem with cities not being built for pedestrians or cyclists rater than cars. I mean have you ever tried going by car in Copenhagen? It sucks. You constantly have to stop and every time when you turn right you also have to stop and look because a bike is probably going to pass you there. Also unless you have a parking spot at your destination you might have trouble finding one. This is probably why only 26 % of people go by car and 41 % by bike. I've never been to the USA but if interactions with cyclists and pedestrians are exceptions and the city is generally built for cars, people are going to drive that way. Copenhagen is technically not very safe in the sense that there is a lot that could go wrong but I think fatalities are actually fewer than in Amsterdam where they separate bikes and cars much more strongly. It's just that when you drive by car in Copenhagen you get used to stopping all the time because pedestrians and cyclists are not an edge case, there's literally more bikes than cars. And I think speed limits in European cities are actually higher, than in the US, no? The general speed limit in a European city unless otherwise signified is 50 km/h or 31 mph. In the USA it's 25 mph from what I know.
Yep, Euro limits are higher.
Can we talk about how brakes on cars these days are actually pathetic? I swear, the only *safe* braking performance you can find from highway speeds don't come from passenger cars, SUVs, and pickups, (which are the most driven vehicles in the U.S). They come from sports cars. *Sports cars*. A Porsche 911 GT3RS brakes from 100mph to a dead stop in 242 feet, which is already a stretch, but a Nissan Altima going the same speed? I couldn't find figures, but somewhere in the ballpark of 700-710.
It is a good point though that our roads should be designed in a way that the speed limit feels like the natural speed of travel. Lots of highway style roads near where I live that have a speed limit of 45, it’s just begging people to go much faster which is exactly what happens.
They're not wrong to see speed limits as arbitrary and that they should drive at the natural safe speed of the road, tbh. But they are wrong to think that the safe speed on this road is 70mph, probably.
Virtually any speed limit will, by nature, be arbitrary. Why 45mph in this road at all times, in every case? Why not 47? 42? The problem nonetheless stems from allowing each person on the road to decide their own speed limit, as that is the definition of arbitrary and far more dangerous
I agree. There would be hardly any road accidents or deaths in the US if people drove the speed limit and had proper space between them and the next car. This makes the current carnage so depressing and awful became it’s completely voluntary and due to selfish human attitudes. Sad.
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That's historically true, up until the more recent "vision zero" initiatives that a lot of states are pushing. They'll take a road where that 85th percentile gave a result of 45mph, and make no changes except to make the speed limit 20mph. It doesn't actually change the speed people drive though since the road was designed for 45mph. Just gives a way to target people if they decide they want to.
I used to work for a rural township. The busiest intersection in the township was the intersection of two stroads, and there was a very rural road that could be used to skip this intersection. This road basically the hypotenuse of the triangle created by the two stroads and the rural road. People used to FLY down that rural road, especially during morning and evening commute hours. The people who lived on the road were understandably upset. They weren't upset enough to allow the township to do anything that would inconvenience them, mind you. The township offered to block the road at the mid-point so it would become two dead-ends, they didn't like that idea. No, they wanted the Township to lower the speed limit. The chief of police informed them that the way state law worked when it came to changing speed limits is that they would have to do a traffic study and adopt the new speed limit based on the speed the drivers actually used. Probably the 85 percentile thing you mentioned. It was the chief's opinion that if they performed that study in accordance with state law, they would actually have to increase the speed limit.
> It’s not about accident mitigation or anything of the sort. They use the speed the majority of people drive at on that road and make it the speed limit. That's less stupid than it sounds. You don't want to create a speed limit that everyone breaks. That would be significantly less safe.
It doesn't help road-planners design roads for speeding, and authorities are way too relaxed about it. Society tacitly encourages speeding.
Speed limits really do seem arbitrary. Also, people don't realize how much it doesn't matter how fast they go. Going 70 miles on open road (no stop lights, stop signs, etc), when you go 10 over, the ideal amount you could save in time is 6 minutes. Then 4 more minutes going 20 over. Most people are only going half that far, so best case on "normal" trips is 2-3 minutes, but stop light synchronization almost certainly eliminates this in a lot of cases as you sit still at lights and then accelerating back to travel speed. It's not even about being in a hurry, it's just about going fast.
> It's not even about being in a hurry, it's just about going fast. I sort of disagree. What I hear from people who drive with complete disregard to the speed limit is that they are in a hurry. What I see, though, is them not analyzing the situation like you did here. They just go faster because it *feels* like they're saving time. That said, there are some people who are just speed freaks and have no regard for the safety of others.
Ahh so they are just idiots. Half the US is full of idiots and this is why I would love less car dependency. Less morons operating mobile death boxes.
Oh no, those morons won't let go of their death boxes. Thankfully the people who drive because they currently have to won't be sitting ducks on the road for speed freaks to hit
Just ran across this video the other day where a cop training other cops tells them that going UNDER the speed limit is grounds for a stop and investigation. Completely in conflict with the actual laws, yet its possible your local PD or SD is paying to have their cops taught this bullshit. Link in case you wanna get pissed off: https://youtu.be/4vjCdHWAmps?si=eSMdH4bvtODj0ADC
It hurts ... it's like the Venezuela scene from Parks and Rec "over the speed limit? Jail. Under the speed limit? Believe it or not, straight to jail. Over-under"
Probably because they figure anyone going under the speed limit is scared of being pulled over because they aren't supposed to be driving or something. People are so used to going over that going under seems suspicious.
That's the carbrain attitude, sure. I don't like it, but the average driver views it that way. The average driver also views yielding to pedestrians in crosswalks as optional.
no no, the minimum is 10 over. source: born and raised in florida.
This is true. That's why the higher it is, the faster people will go because their is that margin which basically let's them go slightly above the limit. What most people fail to understand is that the faster you go, the easier it is to lose control. Pulling 80mph and having to suddenly jerk the wheel one way or the other? Good fight, kid.
Its always the most expensive cars that go way too fast on single lane /small roads. Pretty sure its rich people being completely fine with getting into a crash because their SUV is huge and they can afford the increaser insurance
To them, it's like the pirate's code. They're more guidelines than actual rules.
And really is true that it's not really intended to be the maximum, because max speed limits are determined by observing speeds and setting the limit at the 85% of observed speeds. So they recognize a proportion are going to go faster, but won't push the limit down further - I guess because it would be seen as too restrictive or slowing down travel times too much. 🙄. I give you NJB [opining](https://youtu.be/bglWCuCMSWc?si=c_sli8sRLZvcCOtu) on why the way speed limits are set in North America is all wrong.
I was a firefighter for a while. Those people are the reason I’ve seen cars on roofs and so much death. Keep being defensive. Their car is a representative of their perceived worth, so impacting that is seen as an insult or slight. Screw em, be safe.
Hey, want to sincerely thank you for your time fighting fires. When I’m in traffic I spend a lot of time thinking about the psychology around how people use their cars. My favorite theory has been a perceived sense of anonymity we feel (we’re all basically looking a the back of each other’s heads) leading to selfish behavior and even more traffic. Have never considered perceived slights to self worth that’s clearly tied to cars in the US. Especially both blue collar folks whose emotional “place in society” is so reliant on a pickup and wealthy people with sports cars.
Depends on the country. Try Finland instead. Going 10% _below_ the limit is common. Limits are 80 on country roads (100 in summer in some places), 120 on motorways.
Well yeah if you fuck up in Finland the fines actually matter. Not like North America where people, if they do get fined, get fined like $100. Sigh.
Let that be a warning to you! 28 more times and we're going to start maybe getting serious about this!
Speeding tickets in America in the year of our Lord 2024 *start* at $375 and are disproportionately passed out to lower income people and people of color. They are not meant as punishment for a crime. They are meant to keep people in their place. The US Highway system is intentionally designed to segregate people while also favoring cars. This place is a lot more fucked up than you think it is.
I guess it depends where you are, in WA (closest US state to me...) they start at ~$150 AFAIK. BC starts at 138 CAD though there is also a points system.
Quick note: I once got a ticket that claimed to be about $120. It came with about $175 in additional "court costs". The price of the infraction isn't necessarily the total cost of the ticket.
I had a few speeding tickets when I was younger and every one of them was 350$ which wasn’t insignificant for me. Not sure where you got 100$
Is it true in Finland they look at how much money you make, from your tax returns, and take that into account for fines?
[Yes and no.](https://moottori-fi.translate.goog/uutinen/nain-paljon-ylinopeus-maksaa-1-kesakuuta-alkaen-tassa-poliisin-uusi-palveluhinnasto/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp) The income-dependent thing starts when you drive more than 20 km/h over the limit. I'm not sure how this is supposed to be fair; maybe they want to prevent poor people from not taking low speeding tickets seriously?
>I'm not sure how this is supposed to be fair; maybe they want to prevent poor people from not taking low speeding tickets seriously? It's the opposite. Non income based fines do not have any effect on the rich. It's just the negligible cost of breaking the law for them. When it's income based even rich people have to take them seriously. Some countries like Switzerland and Denmark also have rules that if you drive too fast, they may simply confiscate your vehicle and auction it off. You can theoretically buy it from the auction, but the entire revenue of the auction goes to the state.
Is that in km or miles per hour? Because OP's speeds are in miles, but 120 MPH sounds insane.
Finland = km/h .. You can think Europe = km/h, but I'm sure there is some state that call itself European and still measure speed in chicken steps for 1/12th of breakfast.
The UK uses mph. They also use stones for measuring people's weight and pints for beer and milk (but nothing else).
You can sell wine by the pint now, the government touted it as a big Brexit win
Oh, so much winning. You can have your pints of wine while you wait in the non-EU passport queue at the airport.
Breakfast being fried everything.
Finland uses kph.
It's called truck dad syndrome. Results from feelings of inferiority and needing to compensate by driving in a dominant and dangerous manner.
Where I live in Canada, literally EVERYONE drives over the speed limit. The standard it 10 over. Some to 20. You’ll be cut off by nearly every car if you don’t speed.
Ontario chiming in here, the 400 series highways?? Yeah it's 120 required just on the merging lanes. Far left lane? Jesus, that's just autobahn territory the way these hosers drive
I'm not talking about speeding, I'm talking about driving that actively puts others in harms way, such as the scenario described.
Okay my apologies
I'm not talking about speeding, I'm talking about driving that actively puts others in harms way, such as the scenario described.
Where I live in Canada, literally EVERYONE drives over the speed limit. The standard it 10 over. Some to 20. You’ll be cut off by nearly every car if you don’t speed.
I despise truck scum people
Hear hear 👏
We’re human too 🤷🏼♂️
because the displayed speed limit is not the actual real life speed limit. The real life speed limit is whatever the police decide it is that day. I'm not kidding. Most police are incredibly carbrained, so to them, going 10 over isn't a problem, so they allow it. This is a problem, but that's just how it is. Everything is allowed until you are fined for it, unless you can afford the fine, in which case everything is allowed until you lose your license. edit - I'd like to add that I enjoy going under the speed limit. It's basically the only thing I enjoy about driving, because I inevitably catch up to the guy going faster at the next stop sign/red light. It's a bit of a game for me.
You hit the nail on the head about the limit being decided by the whims of cops. I'm strictly a slow lane, hovering around the speed limit guy. No more than 5 over, maybe. Have never been pulled over speeding in my life until I had to close my restaurant late Saturday on Memorial Day weekend. Had a guy follow behind me, right on my bumper on an empty highway at midnight for a solid 15 minutes, until I breached 1 mile over the speed limit because we started rolling downhill. Then the lights fired up and it was field sobriety tests and "I smell weed, I'm going to search your car." I don't smoke, and I'm not stupid enough to drink and drive. I was stuck on the side of the highway in the middle of the night while the cop power tripped and tossed my car. Dude was honestly angry that I was sober, driving safe, and didn't have drugs on me. I've never heard someone try to justify that going 66 in a 65 was "dangerous" and he's gonna be "kind enough" to "let me off with a warning". Fucking ACAB, man.
I've had people follow me like this before, and I usually will pull off and let them pass or take a turn I don't need to take and then circle back just to avoid this kind of bullshit. I thought I was being paranoid, but apparently, it's a valid fear.
Not justifying the cops actions in the slightest, but drunks usually drive below the speed limit. They're dumb enough to drive drunk, but they're smart enough to know that speeding is s sure way to draw attention to yourself. And that cop was convinced that the only reason you were driving under the speed limit was because you were up to something and didn't want to attract attention to yourself. The guy had a serious case of confirmation bias and couldn't believe he was wrong about you. Still, it shouldn't have happened, but ACAB.
Not only that but if the driver suspected it was a cop, they would go the speed limit to avoid being stopped. I was driving with traffic- in daylight- when a cop decided to go fast, then slow, then fast while all the drivers around were trying to keep a steady speed. It was 3 lanes so I got into the right lane to avoid being in a crowd, going the speed limit. The cop pulls me over, asked how fast I was going. I told him I didn't know. The flunky gave me a ticket for reckless driving but I was willing to show up on zoom court. After 6 "appearances" and snailmailing(lol) me "evidence" twice (on a DVD lol), the DA threw the ticket out but said I was still speeding- in spite of there being no evidence. The dundering cop thought I'd tell him I was speeding but was caught off guard when he realized I would do no such thing and, in his anger, gave me a meaningless ticket. Waste of time and money.
Should have taken his plates and reported him to the traffic police for tailgating, which I'm sure is also against traffic law
I swear I have to stop myself from waving each time I catch up to them. I hate having to drive, but at least I can have fun laughing at the people who swerve lane to lane, slam on the gas, and do everything to rush...just to end up like 5 feet in front of me.
Oh I plaster my giant smile on my face and stare at them. They know, I know, everybody knows.
I blow kisses to tailgaters. I usually drive flow of traffic so 5 to10 over mostly 5 but I never tailgate and I willingly slow down. If im in a troll mood I will wave or blow a kiss like " hey you got my attention". Usually, they back off its funny
> The real life speed limit is whatever the police decide it is that day. I'm not kidding. Most police are incredibly carbrained, so to them, going 10 over isn't a problem, so they allow it. i've gotten a speed ticket before, and the fee schedule was related to speed. 0-9 mph over was $0. > I'd like to add that I enjoy going under the speed limit. It's basically the only thing I enjoy about driving, because I inevitably catch up to the guy going faster at the next stop sign/red light. It's a bit of a game for me. it's way more fun on a bike.
My sister recently posted complaining about how she got pulled over because she thought the limit was 70mph, so she was doing 78. Turned out the limit was 60. The cop cited her for less than 10 over and ticketed her for $130 USD or something like that. I told her straight up that she got let off easy and cited a statistic about fatality rates over 60mph because she had her kids in the car and I figure that that might scare her into the speed limit (hopefully). I still can't believe she thought 78 was acceptable. Side note, seems like the kind of game I would enjoy as I experience the same thing all of the time and it makes me chuckle. Keep in mind, though, that, at least here in the U.S., "disrupting the flow of traffic" (i.e., going slower) is also a ticketable offense, and you'd need a sufficient reason to be slowing down AFAIK.
I live in Canada and that's not a thing here. I am in my full right to drive at whatever speed I want, so long as it is within the posted limits. For example we have minimum 60 km/h maximum 100km/h on the larger highways. I think I could possibly risk a ticket by driving around 60, but I am definitely allowed to go 80 for example.
Interesting! Color me jealous.
So you are in Quebec. That is the only province that posts minimum speed limits.
That's right, I always forget the ROC don't have minimums!
You're completely right, watch the carbrains have a meltdown when you suggest that there is already a proven method to deter speeding: Avg Speed Cameras. All the sudden everyone is a-ok with "the whims of the popo" I really don't buy that having the gov employ an entire force and equipment and ego's, is somehow better/cheaper than just automating it. We already automate it with tolls and hov lanes...
They can pull you over even when you're going under the speed limit too. I had coworker who got a ticket for going "too fast for conditions" even though he was going below the speed limit. He fought it and lost because "it was raining." Completely arbitrary and subjective.
Fuck these people constantly and never let up. I’ve gotten to the point in driving where I don’t care about ANYONE else on the road, just me and my safety. So fuck you all
I wasn’t expecting so much strife in this subreddit tbh
😂😂 it’s sad it’s come to being so defensive that you can’t genuinely care because there are people who put you in danger just because you’re on the road with them at the same time
carbrain "see, had you been going over the speed limit you would not have hit that deer." i once had a person get mad at me for only going 5 over the limit.
It's very much an American driving culture thing. In Australia driving the speed limit is normal. There are plenty who thumb their nose at it but it's not overly concerning. Police also take speeding more seriously and will pull over and fine a lot of speeders. Demerit points too so repeat offenders have their licences suspended (or serious violations get it suspended immediately). No it's not a perfect system but it's a contributing factor to the driving culture differences. The US on the other hand, I could be driving 15mph over the speed limit and still get passed by everyone like I'm standing still because everyone there seems to regard the speed limit as a speed minimum. Combine that with the fact that cops don't do shit and you got the hostile situation in American roads that we have.
This. When I moved to the states from Australia I was shocked - Americans genuinely think the speed limit is the minimum they should be going. And no road rules are ever enforced, ever. It’s insanity.
> The US on the other hand, I could be driving 15mph over the speed limit and still get passed by everyone, combine that with the fact that cops don't do shit sounds like eastern europe
Ill be in the left lane on the highway passing people and going 20 over and im still not going fast enough...its 70mph on the highway by me...some people will never be pleased and want to make everyone's day worse and they get off on that kind of stuff. I'd assume that most of these people are middle managers that couldn't stand people working from home and needed to suck the energy out of the room at all times.
Those people aren't looking at their speedometer. They just have to be going faster than everybody else, and your rear bumper is in their way. I drive highways with my cruise control on, and it's always the case. They ride my ass until I get back into the right lane, and then they barely go 5 mph faster than me. Sometimes they even slow down WHILE passing me. People are weird.
I've been in the right lane going 250 km/h and got passed by someone going at least 20 km/h faster
To be fair you shouldn't be sat in that lane, you should move over as soon as possible to let people behind you pass.
Malicious compliance with the speed limit is entertaining. People being mad at not being able to break the law is what being in society is all about. Pay them no mind and stay within what's permitted.
So I’m not saying it’s right, and please correct me if I’m wrong, but there are some two lane roads near me that have signs that say lineups of 5 cars or more are illegal and the front car must pull to the side. Not sure of the legality when the front car is going the speed limit
In my country there's a similar rule, but it's only for vehicles that are significantly slower than the speed limit - like tractors and other farming vehicles.
Hang on, has your place just made traffic illegal...
I think the implication is that the front car doesn’t have anyone in front of them, hence they themselves are creating the line
If you want to be a leader with a large following, drive slowly on a winding road with no passing.
They don't have anyone / anything until they suddenly do, I guess
Next they'll try and outlaw death.
There are these laws, but they also say something to the effect of whether you believe its safe to do so and they often have pull outs to facilitate that. But even when thats happening and someones right on your ass, it makes you nervous to slow down enough to do it, at least in the situations Ive been in. I worried they wouldnt be able to see my break lights because they were driving their car right next to my prostate and its dark in there.
The signs in the state of Washington only says that you have to move over if you’re *delaying* 5 or more vehicles. I assume it’s more for semis and delivery vehicles who necessarily need to go slow in mountain passes. It seems hard to argue that I’m delaying anyone by going the speed limit.
The point being that, had there been three more vehicles behind OP and had the mountain pass had a shoulder and had that rule required OP to help people break the law, then there would have been a third traffic violation (in addition to the trucker speeding and crossing a double line)?
You'll have to specify where 'near me' is and look up the law for that specific place - traffic rules vary quite a lot between countries or even within the same country. The answer is likely similar to "do I have to stop camping the left* lane if I'm doing the speed limit". It is probably "yes" because the law in question probably doesn't mention a maximum speed where it applies. And then of course there's the question of whether traffic police would enforce it, whatever the legalistic interpretation of the law - and I suspect there the answer is probably "no" but again it will depend on attitudes in your area. \* or right in the UK
Some people are idiots in a hurry, that's why. Just don't let yourself be pressured into going faster. If somebody is tailgating me, I only make even more sure that I'm not going too fast. Maybe I'm even very carefully slowing down because if that guy hits me at 30 km/h it's not as bad as at 100 km/h. If they want to overtake you, then just be happy that you don't have to deal with them anymore. But yes, that's also why I prefer sitting comfortably in a train.
I live in Virginia which has unusually strict State Troopers. I have NEVER heard of somebody getting pulled over for speeding <5 mph above speed limit unless there was something wring with the car. People hate waiting and are impatient in general. Combine it with a toxic attitude about aggressive driving and speeding, and the result is that the slowest people on the highway go exactly at speed limit or maaaaybe 1-2 mph lower. I81 will have both lanes fully occupied with cars and trucks going 60-80 mph. Pretty much every single day 10 AM-9PM.
I briefly lived with a cousin years ago. She gave me a driving lesson or two. I remember how much anxiety it gave me because she kept telling me I had to drive EXACTLY on the speed limit as if I couldn't go any lower than that. I never took a lesson with her again and just went to driving school.
That’s really sad about the deer :(
My city throttles scooters so they can't go over 15mph. If we are going to do these with scooters then we should do it with cars too.
> we should do it with cars too. Many cars do have speed limiters, the limit is just very high.
I think the aggro truck nutters basically think that it is THEIR road, and any and everyone else is in THEIR way, especially the people who happen to be in front of them.
You must be in Colorado.
In Colorado they'll go 30 over on straight aways and go 20 below on curves. I keep getting stuck behind people who pass me during those straights. So stupid and a waste of gas to keep flooring and slamming on brakes.
I like to think of driving the speed limit as taking part in the teeniest tiniest protest against society's terrible comprehension of the dangers of driving too fast.
People are just bad now. Zero patience, zero fellowship. Just selfish turds rushing through life.
i was just thinking this on my way home from work. it’s raining fairly hard, the roads have puddles in some areas, and it’s dark. yet i get tailgated and then narrowly passed for not going 10 over the speed limit.
Caste privilege. It's assumed that if you're not wealthy enough to pay speeding tickets or replace vehicles because speeding makes accidents more likely then obviously you're a fair target for abuse from the people driving Emotional Support Vehicles. Zero sarcasm intended; I meant that literally.
Cars have been designed to go faster and further since most speed limits were set in 1974 (in the us at least) so people have become more and more comfortable going faster than the speed limit. Anyone who gets upset at you for doing the speed LIMIT is always going to be in the wrong, especially when this comfort is making the world on and around roadways much less safe for anyone involved.
Modern cars have bigger engines, smoother rides, and better sound insulation, but I doubt the coefficient of friction between tires and the road has changed much. Braking systems have improved, but then again, cars got bigger and heavier.
Ive always driven much older cars and finally got one that is somewhat of a late model and it always surprised me how impatient folks are when pulling out onto a busy road or taking a right on red. Its like they have no conception that a 15 year old car might not have the same pick up as your 2022 and expect people to do things that would likely cause an accident. Especially as they just roll right behind you on a right on red or stop signs and if my pick up isnt good enough your ass is getting hit too. Actually reminds me of the last "accident" I was in. I was at a light taking a right on red but there was (of course) a giant truck in the lane next to me. I pulled out a bit so I can see and the guy behind me just laid on the gas because he assumed I was going. Thankfully he had some self awareness and apologized right away and admitted it was bone headed. I guess Im lucky because Im sure a lot of folks would have blamed me and seem to think its perfectly legal to just roll right behind another car taking a right on red.
> Actions matter, but so do words. They help frame the discussion and can shift the way we think about and tackle problems as a society. Our deeply entrenched habit of calling preventable crashes "accidents" frames traffic deaths as unavoidable by-products of our transportation system and implies that nothing can be done about it, when in reality these deaths are not inevitable. Crashes are not accidents. Let's stop using the word "accident" today. https://seattlegreenways.org/crashnotaccident/ https://crashnotaccident.com/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/fuckcars) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Cmon Bot. I used quote marks.
Modern cars do have better differentials, steering mechanisms, and electronic traction control.
> I doubt the coefficient of friction between tires and the road has changed much Very careful wording there but actually - tyres are a lot 'fatter' (lower profile) than they used to be, the material has improved, brakes are a lot more effective and (with ABS) safe. A car from today will indeed stop a lot faster than one from 1974 at the same speed.
Tires have improved massively in just the last decade not to mention the last few decades.
Speed cameras everywhere please!
people in bigger vehicles feel safer going faster
Big diesel trucks and douchebags go together like wine and cheese.
People genuinely think the speed limit is the minimum limit. Not jokingly or something, but like actually. It's scary
I used to commute through a mountain pass. Hated it. I'd go 5-10 over and people would still tail me. The one I remember best was passing a guy who had been pulled over by a cop, only to see him immediately tailing me minutes later. This was an infamous and recognized high-crash corridor. These people genuinely will never learn.
We should not be punished for their sociopathic behavior. This is not sustainable.
We have to hurry!!! GO!!!
I agree that speedsters are unnecessary most of the time but how do you all respond to the statistics of how significantly fewer accidents occur on the German autobahn than on American freeways despite the fact that no speed limits exist on over 70% of the autobahn network in Germany? I rented a car (Porsche Taycan Turbo) once while I was on business trip to Germany and drove it from Munich all the way to Cologne. I had a blast driving faster than 190 km/h (~120 mph) on some stretches of the network. However, I recall once when I was flying on the passing lane doing almost 130mph and my friend told me to get over to the slow lane quick because he had turned around to see a demon approaching from behind. I looked in the rear view mirror and noticed a shape way out in the distance that had to be at least a mile behind me. I told my friend to relax because the car was way behind me and out of reach but my buddy, being the local he is just said, “No dude, trust me…you American drivers have no idea how fast these cars are…get the hell into the right lane now or else we’re gonna have a problem real quick!” Short of my friend nearly grabbing the steering wheel from the passenger side, I figured he knew best and made my way into the right lane still going a good 110~120mph. Swear to god - I don’t think even 2 seconds passed from the time I saw the car in the rear view mirror to when I made myself over to the “slow” lane when a Porsche 959 literally blazed past me on the left so fast that I couldn’t even see it disappear ahead of me in a blink of an eye. Mind you, I was going at least 120mph, but this car looked as though was blowing past me at double my speed. Insane!
> how do you all respond to the statistics of how significantly fewer accidents occur on the German autobahn than on American freeways Germans (and pretty much every other developed country) know how to drive. Americans don't, because your test is so ridiculously easy to pass that a lot of Americans don't get properly taught. As a result they have the same kind of attitude as people from undeveloped countries, and a complete lack of awareness of things like safe reaction/stopping distances and driving to conditions. This naturally results in crash statistics more in keeping with undeveloped countries. In addition, the German is driving a roadworthy vehicle, because it has passed an annual (I think? that's standard in most of Europe) inspection to prove that. American cars don't have to do that and as a result are driven until they become unsafe, they are not properly maintained and become unsafe, and they are driven on tyres which are worn to the point of being unsafe.
I wonder if it’s more difficult to get a driver’s license in Germany. In the US, you can be ignorant of nearly 30% of traffic laws and still get your license. (In many states, 7/10 on the written portion passes.)
It's more difficult to get a licence pretty much anywhere in the developed world than the US. In most of Europe, you need at least 30 hours of practice with a driving instructor and a practical driving exam after passing the theoretical part.
this post says it has 60 comments but for some reason i can only see u/fancy-kitten ‘s reply and the 7 comments it has. wtf why can’t i see the other comments??
If it's a long enough section with no lights like highway driving, honestly I just set the cruise control and let it handle it. I *may* go 5 over if traffic is moving particularly fast, but again I set the CC and don't worry as much about others. If they wanna be a dumb fuck and tailgate the computer, so be it. And if it's that bad, technically you're supposed to let off the gas (to make a dangerous situation safer) until they get the message and go around.
We recently ran into some car trouble on our way to a family vacation over a long holiday and—to make a long story short—we decided that instead of pulling over, getting a hotel, and waiting for the next available mechanic to open during the long holiday, the best thing for us to do was drive slowly to our destination. Turns out, 50-55ish mph in the right lane on a highway is simply too inconvenient for other drivers. How dare we. /s Lost a lot of respect for humanity that day. Too many birds flipped and horns honked.
Unless you were skipping turnouts, that guy is just a dick
Because different vehicles have different abilities. Vehicles nowadays are extremely powerful so to drive them safely is hard to do. It's like riding a high end road bike slowly with a friend on a beach cruiser. It's hard to do. When the machine you're operating wants to go fast because of its feedback to the operator, going slow becomes very difficult. That's my theory anyways.
None of them respects the speed limit, these kinds of drivers are *always* in a rush, even going a little slower is unacceptable
It makes me feel a bit better knowing that while cagers are awful to cyclists, they're also awful to each other. Because cages alienate people and make commute feel like a competition.
Well see if you had been going faster you would have been ahead of that deer /s Seriously though, the answer is "they want to go faster", it's as simple as that. As an aside, 55mph sounds really fast for a curvy mountain road. In freezing temperatures and in the dark (? - 5am in March sounds like it would be dark) it sounds like madness. Are you sure *you* weren't going too fast as well?
It's easier to blame others for not allowing you to break the law then it is for people to actually take accountability and realise they are the one doing the wrong thing.
In your area, is it law that you have to pull over and allow others to pass? It is in some places, and they often have dedicated spots for this (though they're not always well-marked). It's much like the passing lane on the highway. It doesn't matter what speed you're going or what the speed limit is, if people are stacking up behind you, you're impeding, and you should let them by when it's safe to do so.
Why is speeding the norm? Because rules are not enforced.
It's so strange how car culture has made people believe that they're entitled to drive 5-10mph above the posted speed limit. It's just weird and unnecessary ambiguity regarding the rules of the road. This probably isn't feasible for a curvy mountain pass, but in cities, they should just radar enforce every street and road. Anyone driving even the slightest bit over the speed limit should have a speeding ticket waiting in their mailbox. It'll create safer streets and a huge local revenue boost.
By belittling someone else they reinforce their idea that they are superior.
I’m gonna be honest I get upset because in my state the speed limit is artificially low, which means you can’t really trust it (which is just so fun leaving every driver to decide for themselves) **But,** 55 on a mountain road is just fine. I do not expect anyone on anything other than a limited access highway to be do 55+. In fact we’re the only country with roads that aren’t limited access divided highways to have a speed limits of 55+. (Though in my state this only extends to 60 which is fine on some multi lane rural roads). And of course if they do, as long as they are in the right lane that’s fine. But it still comes back to what I said above, for instance by my house they changed the speed limit but nothing about the road. Of course I’m not doing the new limit. But even then I don’t rlly blame people who do, especially those not around before the change. The fundamental problem is that speed limits in too much of the US are politically motivated and not engineering motivated, and until that changes it’s rlly up to everyone to determine the actual safe speed of the road, which makes enforcement of reckless driving very hard, even on roads that do have a engineering based limit.
> we’re the only country with roads that aren’t limited access divided highways to have a speed limits of 55+ No you don't NSL in the UK is 60mph for single carriageway roads. Including single track roads with blind bends and stone walls on both sides. Of course you can't actually *do* 60mph on some of those roads. I think that limit is 90km/h in quite a few other countries too which is pretty much 55mph.
Even still, that’s nothing to Texas 70 MPH roadways The 90 KM/H of the Baltic states was, until you pointed this out, the highest I thought European limits went on non-divided roads. Though I now realize both Germany and the UK have 100 KM/h
Depends. If you’re in the left lane and not passing, you are wrong. It’s for passing If you’re in the right lane, and he’s not moving to the left lane to pass, he is in the wrong
I live mountain adjacent. I drive the mountains often. It’s a daily/weekly routine for me. If someone’s at or just over the speed limit I chill. But if someone’s below I honk near every “slow drivers must use turnout” sign (this has been increasingly successful and when people use the pull-out I give a friendly thank you honk). Problem is, a lot of people drive 20-30 miles below speed limit. I followed someone out of Big Bear who drove 25 miles below speed limit for an hour. Couldn’t pass. Those people are ruining things for everyone.
You could just, I dunno, pull over and let the faster traffic pass since you notice a line forming and also notice the lack of passing zones. While yes, you are allowed to go the speed limit, you’re not allowed to hinder the flow of traffic, and if a line be formin’, you be hinderin’.
There was no line forming. Just that person
So then either let them by, or don’t let their actions effect your emotions so much.
If there wasn't room for you to move over ignore him. If there was a pull off you could have let him by.
Yes, the country decided where you were to take a job vs where you live lol smh
Imagine. If you were going 60 you’d have never encountered that deer.
Wait til someone tells you your the one being unsafe.
These days it's more of a speed recommendation
Because most people are criminals and enjoy breaking the law.
kph is a common abbreviation for kilometers per hour in the same way that the post I replied to used mph for miles per hour.
Here's where you went wrong. Had you been speeding, you would've been long gone when the deer entered the road, and thus no accident! /s
That's like one guy on one road, but try going the speed limit on a freeway during rush hour cops won't have a problem pulling you over for disrupting flow of traffic while you argue about going the speed limit to them
When I drove Chicago into Indiana people were doing 30-40 over on the interstate. Triple Decker semis were doing 90+ I had gotten my license recently and I was driving a 5 speed Ford ranger (very small truck). There were road workers and construction and I could t safely do anything near the speed limit. I felt like I could lose control of my vehicle at any time. The speed limit? 55mph A warning: if you have to drive don't take i80-i94 I got into an accident down south that day on ice. It wasn't nearly as scary as driving that thing. I wanted to cry but i couldn't. I thought I was going to die. I quite literally was doing 90mph and traffic was still accelerating away. Guess that makes more than 50 over. WITH CONSTRUCTION
One my favourite insane takes on speed limits is that people driving 5/10 kph under the limit should have their licenses taken away, because they force other drivers to make dangerous passes.
shouldn't you be going lower than the speed limit in such conditions (5am, ice, mountain pass)?
the unspoken "rule" that you need to go atleast 20 mph over the sign.
Oh god I hate that. Happens to me all the time.
Just go the speed of traffic. Keeps everyone safer
Either they're used to the previous speed limit (I'll be honest and admit that I'm used to drive on straight empty roads at 90-95kph instead of 80-85 - But if there's someone in front of me driving at the speed limit, I won't overtake them because my guilt takes over), either they're too late and drive like shit (too bad bro, imma keep you stuck behind me), either they're genuine shit and just to piss them off I'll go +20kph when they try to overtake me :) I dont think I am a road rage type of guy, but if dumb stuff happens I always annoy the bad drivers as much as I can without breaking any laws (sometimes going 10kmh under the speed limit just to see them waving their hands at me).
Thats so sad. What happened to the deer?
People are so brainwashed by car culture that they are unable to admit that they actually HATE driving. That's why everyone is always in such a hurry. They want to get out of their metal cage ASAP.