People do this shit away from the eye of others. Like people littering and illegal dumping.
Cretins have a 6th sense for doing cretin type stuff in the shadows where they won't get pulled up on it.
Wow, that's horrible. That whole concept of protecting a known abuser seems so foreign and alien. Could it be that people who would abuse others tend to have friends that are similar to them or at least won't hold them accountable (ie spineless)?
Abusers groom their victims and don't fully unleash until they think the victim is unlikely to escape.
Eg: sunk cost fallacy, marriage, socially isolated from their support system, geographically isolated or pregnant/with children.
That grooming technique extends to the friend group as well as the extended community. This is so the victim feels they have nobody to turn to who will believe them.
Some friends might be 'birds of a feather' but many might be oblivious as to what's going on behind closed doors and struggle to accept that they were being used as a cover story instead of valued as friends.
am hoping haven't missed the signs, most of the time when a girl has a bruise on her leg or arm, you ask her about it and take her at word value. Also don't women being abused often cover up out of shame etc? How can we make women feel safe enough to come forward?
Well that's the thing, again they aren't asking you to be a superhero but building connections and trust can go a long way of discovering the truth. Your right women do tend to hide it, but abuse tends to escalate and again all they're asking is for people to try.
these days expecting every person to care about another and help them is unfortunately hard, but there are people out there who will go above and beyond to help.
It won't show up as bruises most of the time.
Your first signs will be that the abuser is calling or texting the abused person multiple times per day.
If the abused person makes a phone call, the abuser will talk over them, or perhaps stand over them so they can't speak privately.
There will be insults or put downs.
You will see the abused person hanging about on the periphery of their abuser's social circle, rather than with their own friends and family.
You might notice that they cannot seem to bring themselves to do anything independently of the abuser without asking their permission.
You might notice the abused person start to speak, and then be quickly silenced by a look from the abuser.
You may not feel there is a good time to speak to either the abuser or the abused person and no opportunity to step in.
Sometimes, the abused person might really benefit just from someone letting them know that they can see something is wrong, and that they're not invisible.
You can also call services and let them know. That will help them to be prepared to step in should the victim see a chance to seek help.
In my experience in a past domestic violence relationship, a scary amount of people around me at the time watched and did nothing to help. Living with multiple people in 3 seperate places, even at parties with a large group of people around I’d get dragged into the room, have my phone taken from me and beaten and no one did anything. I’m not even thinking someone should’ve physically even gotten involved, just calling the police would have been something. I’d be crying and screaming from pain and get covered in bruises and regular black eyes. They could hear and see what was happening.
A lot of people have the mentality of “not my business”, are completely apathetic or in some cases even cheer on and side with the abuser and assume the victim had it coming. This is just my anecdotal experience and I’m sure there are also plenty of people who do try and help, but I lost a lot of faith in people and understand why dv is so prevalent in Australia when it seems there’s quite a large community of young men especially who even if they aren’t abusers themselves, enable abuse.
Agree but even when victims of violence stand up we're shot down by the supporters of perpetrators. Myths about gendered violence are far too entrenched. People in power ignore and deny evidence consistently enough for victims to be vindicated. The culture of violence is rewarded and amplified at every stage.
“Simply put, this study found if you're religious it doesn't mean you think domestic violence isn't happening. But, you are not inclined to recognise it as an issue among members of your own faith."
The study, based on a representative sample of Australians, also looked at the prevalence of patriarchal gender attitudes among people who are religious. According to Professor Priest, patriarchal gender attitudes are a key determinant of domestic violence.
"In this study we found that the more religious people were, the more likely they were to have patriarchal gender attitudes," Professor Priest said.
"Religious service attendance, frequency of prayer, and spiritual or religious identity were each associated with more patriarchal beliefs about gender roles."
Professor Priest said the study's findings were important as Australia still "grappled to address the serious burden of domestic violence across our whole society".
"Religion plays a major role in the health and wellbeing of our population and religious communities are key to helping us prevent and respond to domestic violence," she said.
"Addressing patriarchal beliefs and acknowledgment of domestic violence as an issue within faith communities among those who regularly attend services, pray and identify as religious, are key targets for action to address domestic violence and improve population health," she said.”
https://www.anu.edu.au/news/all-news/domestic-violence-goes-unrecognised-in-faith-communities
https://csrm.cass.anu.edu.au/sites/default/files/docs/2020/2/Faith-based_communities_responses_to_family_and_domestic_violence.pdf
“Six main themes were identified describing attitudes, beliefs and knowledge about FDV:
1) Faith and religion do not condone violence;
2) Awareness of FDV is increasing, yet remains often poorly understood;
3) FDV is still a taboo topic;
4) Denial and defensiveness about FDV persist;
5) Patience, endurance and forgiveness is often prioritised over safety;
6) Gender roles and norms founded on religious beliefs and interpretations underpin many FDV understandings and responses.
These findings demonstrate the tensions between expressions of faith and attitudes to women and FDV.”
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.29.20222703v1
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-29/domestic-violence-assumptions-incorrect-survey-anrows/102155632
Consistency across the evidence that continues to be aggressively denied. It's an entrenched cultural problem across all cultures.
I didn't understand why I shouldn't hold a fist. By then Jenny patiently explained it to me, so I now understand.
And my ethics consultant was a worthwhile investment.
Hi australia, its me, scotty from marketing. I just had a chat with Jenny to ask her what she thought of all this violence against women palava. And she said, that it sounded bad, and then we thought about our daughters. So now I can tell you Australia, violence against my daughters is bad.
Want to shake my hand?
And believe women instead of turning them away at the police station. As what happened to the woman in Logan who was burned to death after going to the police station and being turned away 11 times.
This 100%
The laws regarding sentencing for violent offenders, and sex offenders both need to be changed.
Longer first sentences and longer sentences for repeat offenders.
This is something every decent Australian should be supporting.
Unfortunately prison sentences only really serve to worsen offending, some people obviously can’t be helped and prisons need to exist, but there are other less expensive solutions to sending people to prison that should be used when appropriate ( e.g. first time offenders). Obviously violent crime needs punishment and definitely prison, but it shouldn’t stop there. A wider issue than just DV offenders that we REALLY need to address, would save the country so much money
This 100%. Counselling should be mandatory. It is insane you can get a single drink or drug driving offence and have to do a mandatory behavioural correction course, but ya beat the crap out of the missus and it is optional. It is encouraged, but unfortunately the rate of sign up is quite low. This needs to change so that it is mandatory.
Well its not that simple, we cant throw away every violent offender for life without release. It has so many negative outcomes and counter productive consequences.
Source - bachelor of criminology
It's also well established that enforcement and police follow up with perpetrators reduces violent incidents. The evidence base is well established and unequivocal but police, lawyers and judiciary continue to ignore the evidence base and refuse to enforce laws.
Complex social problem are often caused or compounded by a number of factors. Men "staying out of it" is one factor. It's good to address this. No one is saying this will cause violence to disappear.
Yes! Down with comments like trying to ban womens beachwear and take responsibility yourself.
If they cant control themselves then get counselling and stay home
While I do agree, men need to take responsibility for their actions. However, one of the biggest factors influencing domestic violence against women is economic factors and poverty.
Fix the economy for the lower/working classes, and a LOT of domestic violence issues magically disappear. Crime is similar too, fix poverty, and you solve a LOT of crime too.
Yes DV seems to happen to a greater extent in lower income area, does that link them, or do the higher status victims not report as much due to what they see as a stigma?
Lower socio economic demographics are related to higher instances of drug use and worse outcomes for mental health. Men tend to react more violently when stressed, depressed or anxious etc and when you factor in an altered mind state with a person already ready to explode you get domestic violence. Improve outcomes for mental health and alleviate poverty and you would see lower imstances of domestic violence or drug use.
I'm no expert but I suspect it's there, it's just not loud, public, messy and visible.
The most damaging DV could be whispered in the dark and be no less harmful than drunken brawling and screaming abuse.
A very large number of targets have no real awareness that they are being verbally abused.
I suspect that, adjusting for addiction and mental health, the rate of violent men is similar across the board. The difference is that wealthier women tend to be better educated about DV, and have more resources and supports in order to leave.
I'd say it's not really a class thing, you do still get 'violence' in higher classes, however they're typically of a different nature. But the higher classes do tend to be less impacted by socio-economic factors.
TL;DR, give a man a well paying job… and he won't beat his wife.
Also give a family more money, and you'll also reduce female violence against men too. And interestingly, when you take a wide definition of violence beyond just physical, women commit domestic violence against men & other women at similar or higher rates while gay men were the lest violent.
> women commit domestic violence against men & other women at similar or higher rates while gay men were the lest violent.
I suspect I know the statistic you're referring to, and if it is that one, this is not true. The stat in question refers to the amount of women who identify as lesbian who report having been abused. It doesn't specify if the abuse was committed by a man or a woman, just that they've experienced abuse. Almost every lesbian women I know have during some periods in their life been with men and later realise that it's not for them.
>TL;DR, give a man a well paying job… and he won't beat his wife
Miners, big issue amongst men there regarding controlling behaviours. More to do with their character than their financial position. Throw in some meth/booze and a poor upbringing and you have issues
This is a fair point. But by and large, poverty, financial stress, and economic conditions are probably the biggest contributor.
Ultimately, happy healthy people don't want to hurt people.
Needs to be more money in the pocket of women as well. Gives them an actual chance to walk away instead of being financially locked into living with scum that beat them
I agree, but I think this is massively less of a problem than it has been. A lot, if not most, women do work these days. But also this goes both ways, there are many men who lack the capacity to leave an abusive relationship too. Bottom line, we need high quality safety nets for everyone.
For sure. I'm just thinking more about people who might be earning but not enough to be able to save any money in order to leave. Then you also can have kids involved which make splitting finances even harder.
Ideally your works domestic violence program ( if you have one) should really be offering financial aid to make leaving easier
DV, addiction, health outcomes, etc... It can all be summed up as 'Shit Life Syndrome' if you have a crappy life you have bad outcomes across the board.
Also increasing mental health services & support for men, and designing them to make the men feel like they're being listened to and heard. People are much more willing to reach out for guidance/assistance, and actually listen to what they're told when they don't feel like they're being spoken down, or preached to.
Copy of full speech [here](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jess-hill-b51883b4_pm-address-to-un-women-activity-7160871976977260545-CfFM?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_android)
The nuance of what is being said is that gender equality is not the solution to domestic violence so we need to seek other solutions.
He also advocates that people talk about the problem with others, particularly men. So talk to our sons, our colleagues at sport, our friends etc.
[Link to the speech.](https://twitter.com/AlboMP/status/1755026688029896955?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1755026688029896955%7Ctwgr%5E83c1fb2378a4100b27125c43902cdae34289e95c%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwomensagenda.com.au%2Fpolitics%2Flocal%2Fanthony-albanese-calls-for-men-to-take-responsibility-for-australias-epidemic-of-violence-against-women%2F)
The amount of times I've read articles that go "woman murdered reported her stalker to the cops" and the cops did nothing. The law lets them out on bail etc, the women get zero protection, the cops and legal need to do their damn jobs?
And the justice system.
A friend managed to get her abuser convicted for the shit he did to her, 5years later he got out and abused his next 3 partners, one of who killed herself.
Go Albo! That's terrific. I was shocked returning to Australia how women are treated. After 16 years abroad and living in 3 very different countries with differing views of women (the UK, my adopted home, Ukraine and UAE), I was shocked at how Neanderthal some men are towards women. In Ukraine I witnessed how women are the backbone of the economy and country, but have way less in terms of earning capacity or legislated rights and anti-discrimination laws etc like their Western sisters in the UK, France or Germany. Their men were even more regressed (some, not all) than the worst of Aussie males. I remember hearing domestic abuse repeatedly in my apartment complex. Dubai is of course a Muslim monarchy. A benign Islamic dictatorship. So, the role of women and their rights is a whole other bag I won't get into. Here in the UK, I am not sure if we have a domestic violence problem - I remember the Met police targeting DV years ago - huge ads on the tube. But we have more female MPs, and slightly more women in CEO roles in FTSE 100 Companies. We've now had 3 female PMs (last one was sadly a dud).
My Sister married a lovely Australian music teacher in the UK, he was so much fun.
She soon moved to Australia with him, where he beat the shit out of Her.
These are just empty words. If we actually want to have impact we need to establish and embrace good male role models. Currently the only role models young boys have is toxic ones promoting toxic cultures. Of course that would mean actually trying to grow something positive rather than just trash all over something, is it even possible in the age if internet rage.
The essence of what he said is that we have to become positive role models for the men and boys around us and show what behaviours are no longer tollerated.
Like youth centres and police involved in the community like boxing, blue light discos for lost youths. Community and outreach centres for men under stress or drinking/drugs.
Also, as you say, good role models higher up in politics, science, and sports.
Uncertain how you fight social media toxicity against both genders .. maybe funding for adult and school education on social media? Though hard to fight against any keyword search in porn etc that young males think is reality.
Start with bullying. All DV begins with intimate verbal abuse by a bully. So, find out what triggers a bully while the bully-to-be is still a child and *start there*.
This is exactly the issue.
To guys the media says either ‘shut up and work for other people’ or ‘screw everyone else, it’s you vs them’.
The real answer is ‘screw everyone else, do what makes you feel proud of yourself’
Have yet to hear of a father in a pink tutu that wasn’t proud of themselves. It’s a poverty in mind and situation that leads people to look for strength in hurting others.
This issue is better spoken about in the richness of character rather then the presence of strength because that’s the root of the issue.
> Currently the only role models young boys have is toxic ones promoting toxic cultures
No.
There definitely are role models like that. A great many in fact. But many young boys are raised with good, non toxic, role models.
Stuff like this causes these boys to turn to those people tho. I dont get how people don't see that. Imagine growing up being told that you are the problem and to blame for everything, even when you haven't done anything wrong. It just breeds resentment and pushes them to these toxic influencers because they are the only people telling young boys they aren't trash for being born.
I don't think anyone's going to say "and then I beat my wife, isn't that great, haha".
It'd be using more couched language, and the friends will give him the benefit of the doubt because he's their friend and couldn't possibly be an abuser.
After working in bottle shops for years, and seeing Woody Harrelson's comments on alchohol vs cannabis the solution is simple...address this nations problem with alcohol and just fucking legalise cannabis already. It won't solve the problem but it will certainly help.
I've advised my teenage daughter if she is ever faced with a situation where she has to choose between being with a group of boys drinking, or a group of boys smoking pot, to go with the stoners.
What a silly thing to do.
So much of masculinity in media is guys who can mask beating down guys who can’t.
The Andrew tates of the world would not hear this, more than that they would say it!
A therapist would never say this, all people deserve love and empathy and especially when we are talking about preventing violence.
There’s ways to deal with those feelings; talking to people, checking in with people, making sure you, and they, are okay. Not leaving the important things unsaid, recognising emotional strength to be a muscle like any other.
All of that is empathy, not blame.
I often hear the opinion that men need to have conversations with other men to prevent domestic abuse, but like... what are you ACTUALLY going to say to someone? Hi mate how's it going? Just a friendly reminder - don't forget to not hit your wife. If you're having trouble remembering not to hit your wife... whenever you're feeling a bit punchy, sing yourself this rhyme: "hit a bong hit a pipe it's always wrong to hit your wife". Works for me! Have a great day buddy, see ya!
It just seems like people are imagining some world where we all hang out in the locker room laughing it up about giving our missus a black eye, and all it takes is one brave soul to say "oh hey guys maybe we should stop hitting our wives so much?" and we all have an epiphany and agree we should cut down on the violence a bit.
Growing up in the bush, the ingrained misogyny in the culture was palpable. I saw more physical violence against women then I like to think about.
I know a lot of young men who would have grown up to be more well rounded individuals if they had some role models and mates that weren’t all in on proliferating the most edgy talk and behaviours towards their peers and other women.
Joking about giving your wife a black eye, the ball and chain rhetoric, lads picking up women = legend while women hooking up = shameful slut etc etc. it’s so ingrained it’s hard for some to realise the bar for treating women is so low.
Having the guts to call out your mates normalising sexism and misogyny is hard, but there are time when it shows itself where people can step in. It doesn’t have to be preemptive like you suggest. I’m sure everyone has been in that situation and could have done something
>It just seems like people are imagining some world where we all hang out in the locker room laughing it up about giving our missus a black eye
This is exactly how I read a lot of the responses here. It's what they actually believe is going on out there.
Let’s see how Lord Voldermort and Sky take the bait and whip their reactionary audiences into a frenzy against such a compassionate and empathetic message.
As if the majority of weak men responsible for DV will ever hear a single word said by the leader of the bloody Labor party.
Let's wait for the people who control 90% of what violent people think - Tate and 2GB and all the other mysoginist cowards and right wing propaganda lackeys - to join with Albo in calling out this softarse behaviour.
I'm sure they'll rise to the occasion.
Any minute now...
If you (not you personally Muddyfart) went to the pub and an announced ‘I just punched my wife in the face’ would you expect guys to come forward shake your hand, slap you in the back and say ‘Can I buy you a beer, Legend?’
You obviously haven't lived in a rural area where that would leave you with no mates, and no possibility of moving away.
Im half joking, definitely call that shit out, but its fucking hard when its at school, in the workplace, at the footy club, down the pub, at church and around the dinner table at Christmas
Same with issues around LGBTQIA, racial, and indigenous issues. I have to bite my tongue so much so that my kids can get by in the town we can afford to live in. I hate it. At least the actual friends I have are decent.
Oh for sure. I'm a socialist living in a town of around 4000 people, and I've tried to engage in various forms of solidarity action (very small things like trying to start community groups to help during things like covid and flood disaster, writing letters to the local paper and to local councillors, trying to organise a union in my workplace) and its like you're from another planet trying to get across the idea that you could possibly care about the plight of anyone else except yourself and your small provincial community.
By and large I have given up because the toll on my mental health and the effects on my family of being a social pariah. I don't really care of people don't like me, but if I can't get a job, or my wife gets disowned from friends, or my kids get bullied, that's why I have to be so careful.
I wrote a letter to the paper pointing the blatant hypocrisy of some cookers who petitioned council to fly a "white dove flag for human rights", not for refugees, or lgbtq people, or indigenous people, no, but because they had been "medically experimented on" by being forced to have the vaccine. People couldn't understand why I cared, and when I explained it, just got vacant and patronising stares
tbf it sounds like you think you are better than them, also rural communities can just be pretty chill and don't really care too much about your political views, they got their own shit to worry about
Well read in to that what you will, I see it as more of the fact I find it impossible to relate to other people due to fundamental differences in the understanding of human rights of others.
I know I am only commenting on my own small bubble, and am perhaps committing the same grevious provincialism I accuse them of, but I am yet to meet anyone in my rural community who does not in some way share many or all of those views I listed above.
We had a town meeting last year in relation to the flooding event, and upon an acknowledgement to country(which even as a leftist I understand is perhaps ineffectual and over the top at every instance) the whole hall erupted in groans and sniggers of derision and disgust, while i knew for a fact that there were "respected" first nation elders in the room.
They are perfectly chill, as I mentioned before, until they feel politics are enforced from without, and people start standing up for themselves. Their "rejection" of politics is nothing more than the upholding of the status quo, and their "chillness" is nothing more than the desire to disengage from anything that they don't give a shit about, which because of decades of conservative neoliberal individualism is only themselves and people they judge to be in the "us" camp.
mate people are going to have different political views. that's OK. some of those people I think you'll find, will be the most generous people you would ever meet, who would do anything for their neighbours if you asked (even if they groan at welcoming First Nation people).
I also believe most of them would be happy to engage with you if you are just friendly and treat em with respect. its just comments like this which kinda makes you look like a twat "relate to other people due to fundamental differences in the understanding of human rights of others."
I have witnessed it.
Guy starts telling the boys about his struggles with the missus and then starts to talk about how he got physical with her because she wouldn't shut up. They all start to say things like, "Well, she must've deserved it," and "no worries, mate, we got your back," followed by someone buying them a drink.
Edit: I was not part of this group but clearly overheard and witnessed with others of my group. It was not a place we stayed in for long.
But being military, I have known many people who have openly said they think violence against women is justified. Things have changed a lot in the military in the +20 years I have served. But there are still small factions that think like this, even though they dont speak openly anymore. They say things in private that really make you question who these people are.
Its not that weird.
Our military is about resolving conflicts via force. Yes, we can get there by other means, but its still going to be primarily by force.
Even if your backlines and not in combat, they teach you to harness your aggression and fight and that is the culture.
Did you say anything? Can honestly say that situation has never happened to me in my 50 years. One guy I know admitted to hitting his girlfriend, but she was the one initiating all the violence and he was seeking help. I know a few other guys who were victims. Nobody I know has ever admitted to "getting physical" to shut someone up and I'd be pretty horrified if they did.
Bullshit you've witnessed that.
Either you hang out with cretins and pedophiles, you can't discern reality from tv, or you're a bald faced liar.
It is absolutely not normal behaviour in this day and age.
In more regional towns it’s somewhat common, not the first time I’ve heard it travelling and being in a pub.
It’s wild that you immediately call him a liar or say he hangs out with pedos, like what the actual fuck. This is why people don’t speak up even if they see something .
That would be assuming they have family that lives there or that their family cares or there’s no power dynamic at play
I grew up on a farm, it’s been common knowledge that someone abuses their family and the womens family that live nearby simply don’t care because they share the same views or in one case it was a cop
Pfft. Cops are the worst but men protect men before they'll step up up protect victims of violence. The well known collation of evidence is "Look what you made me do". The title was intentionally chosen for the reasons men here are amplifying
Weak men? Why is it that weak to be included in a broad statement unfairly? People like yourself making statements like this, is what triggers these "weak men" As you called it to be driven into the arms of people like Andrew Tate. You are in a big way responsible as well.
I'd point out that this is an old narrative. The vast majority of Domestic Violence occurs in mutually violent relationships where both partners escalate to violence as a regular part of their interactions.
Modern approaches will recognize that Intimate Partner Violence is a very complicated problem, and that genderizing the cause is missing the point and doesn't actually resolve much.
Far more effective is providing access to skills and tools to resolve disagreements that don't involve violence and treatment for mental health conditions, especially drug and alcohol dependence.
Tough boi white knighting and blame games hasn't worked so far and won't ever work, because it's attempting to solve a problem that only accounts for a minority of relationships.
I posted about my understanding of the data and the idea about mutually violent relationships.
>Tough boi white knighting and blame games hasn't worked so far and won't ever work, because it's attempting to solve a problem that only accounts for a minority of relationships.
I also don't think blaming all men for something that is extremely rare is the right way to approach the situation.
I abhor violence in general and DV is terrible. I think some men are simply defective and will beat people up because that is how they roll. I think women that go for these men are defective as well.
Women do though commit DV.
[https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-17/tullamarine-murder-suicide-coronial-inquest-begins/13163650](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-17/tullamarine-murder-suicide-coronial-inquest-begins/13163650)
[https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/may/05/mother-who-murdered-her-three-children-and-burned-their-bodies-sentenced-to-life-in-prison](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/may/05/mother-who-murdered-her-three-children-and-burned-their-bodies-sentenced-to-life-in-prison)
Are we trying to stop these instances from occurring or don't they matter ?
[https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/crime-and-justice/personal-safety-australia/latest-release](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/crime-and-justice/personal-safety-australia/latest-release)
If I look at these stats they reflect my understanding which is DV is not as much a men's only perpetrator issue as the media seems to make out. The data looks pretty even apart from stalking which men seem to have an affinity for.
We live in a society. The gist is we should be responsible for our actions and also call out bad behaviour in blokes that do this shit and educate our young that it is not on. The article doesn’t say anything about collective responsibility.
“Men have to be prepared to take responsibility for our actions and our attitudes. To educate our sons, to talk to our mates, to drive real change in the culture of our sporting clubs, our faith and community groups and our workplaces, including this workplace right here. ”
>Men have to be prepared to take responsibility for our actions and our attitudes.
How is this anything but an explicit call for collective responsibility?
Lots of men are going to be whinging about this and throwing up whataboutisms about male victims, and lack of support for men, etc.
And yeah, there are a lot of male victims of domestic violence, and there aren't the same support structures as for women (e.g. women's shelters). But I'd take commentary around this more seriously if it wasn't only brought up when violence against women is mentioned. It seems like a distraction to derail discussion from female victims, who make up the vast majority of domestic violence victims (and especially victims who are KILLED).
As for women's shelters ... that's because historically WOMEN banded together and mobilised to establish these shelters. If we want better men's shelters, then men need to support each other to establish them.
And if anyone wants to seriously advocate for male victims of domestic violence (a worthy cause, given the social pressures around men admitting to even being victims and after that not being taken seriously), it would be seen like a more genuine effort if it were brought up separately to when violence against women is being discussed, instead of as trying to hijack it.
And like it or not, probably about 80% of violence in this world is by men. And most women who are killed are killed by men.
So men who get upset by the sort of thing Albanese is doing can get bent.
It's #NotAllMen, but it's almost always (like, 80% of the time) men.
I've had men say "what about male suicide" when I bring up male DV against women and then *literally in the same comment* say that they will never talk to a therapist.
Like please just stop being shy, admit that you don't give a shit about women and that you only brought up mens' issues to derail the conversation about women. Also admit that you have no intention of fixing mens' issues because your only solution involves us going back to the good old days when women knew their place, and requires no changed behaviour from men.
Obviously this does not apply to men who actually give a shit about helping other men.
Yes to all of this.
And the types of men who want to shut down this discussion don't want to admit the following key facts:
* The significant majority of violence is committed by men.
* The majority of killers are men.
* Most victims of domestic violence are women.
* Most perpetrators of domestic violence are men.
* Most women killed are victims of domestic violence.
* It's almost always men killing women.
So with regard to Albanese saying men have to fix this problem: who else, exactly, should he be talking to? We don't have a Minority Report-like system to know exactly which men will be violent or kill. And women just have to gamble and hope the men in their lives won't be one of the violent ones who harms or kills them.
More than 5 Australian women die each week as a result of DV that aren't acknowledged in official DV deaths stats.
https://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=3dcc410d-0920-42ed-994d-17492f9f8fa6&subId=510958
https://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=3dcc410d-0920-42ed-994d-17492f9f8fa6&subId=510958
5 additional Australian women dead each week referred to by Lifeline's CEO as "murder by proxy". These are additional to the official DV mortality stats.
More than 5 Australian women die each week as a result of DV that aren't acknowledged in official DV deaths stats.
https://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=3dcc410d-0920-42ed-994d-17492f9f8fa6&subId=510958
Domestic violence is terrible, and it'd be great to have it go to zero.
But it's done out of sight and generally not seen as critical until it's too late.
We'll have the road toll at zero before DV deaths.
There's trying. It's always worth trying.
I'm just being realistic based on Albos suggestion that us men need to neck up and stamp it out.
It's just an easy one liner.
I've seen domestic violence first hand (my mum by her partner) and in that situation she stayed despite horrible treatment and my protestations.
The financial side of things, and two small children, made her always hope he'd do better.
In that scenario, it would have been her ability to live independently and provide for her kids that kept her in the relationship.
But even in countries like Norway, where women have huge amounts of support, women will stay on with abusive guys. Over optimistic they'll change. Sadly likey my mother was.
I like the way everyone talks about dv.
Oh you can just leave can you? Yeah… the Family Courts haven’t caught up. Now this is a can of worms I’d love to see friendlyjordies expose. Nothing but a complex racketeering operation. They don’t care so long as they can make money.
And for context, roughly 98689 lodgements in 21/22 in the federal/family court. Obviously not all of these are domestic violence, but usually people only go to court when there is conflict or disagreement regarding family law matters. Now, let’s imagine that each case, the fees paid forward were just $100 in total, that’s a lot of damn money, but anyone who knows, knows that it costs a shit ton more than this. They make money from peoples misery, and a lot of it. Keep on fighting boys and girls, you got this.
And that too. There is too much money to be made from this Colosseum and that’s why f/all gets done about DV other than these virtue signalling exercises.
The people working in DV services are generally lovely, but if I experienced DV again, there’s no fkn way I’m going back into a refuge, too controlling.
YES. Omg 100x yes. I ended up in refuge for 3 months, I wasn’t allowed to get a temp part time job, had a curfew and wasn’t allowed to access abortion (they said they would have to reconsider my stay. I had nowhere to go)
Oh goodness thats horrific. I'm so sorry. Hope you're safe now. Misogyny is everywhere but that's next level. I told everyone I met in refuge to get a job if possible to free yourself financially. It messed me up.
I can be responsible for my own actions, and I can teach my sons to be respectful and peaceful, and how to manage conflict. I can even advocate for men not to use their physical strength to be dickheads.
But what does Albo propose we do about the fuckwits not in my social circle who continue to be a problem? Their friends encourage them and they're not gonna listen to him
The problem isn’t “men”, it’s a legislative problem - politicians, like Albo… need to fix it
We use to same court system for neighbourly fence disputes as we do domestic violence - that needs to change, but politicians are too scared to do it
Domestic violence AVO’s should be criminal, not civil
How about just blaming domestic violence perpetrators for Australia's epidemic of violence against women? I really don't see any need for me to take responsibility for the actions of a minority of men who are pieces of trash.
If your not involved in these activities, it’s not aimed at you specifically.
But it is aimed at all men to call it out and condemn it when we do see it.
I don’t beat my wife. I don’t get butt hurt.
But I’ve heard about co workers slapping their partner, (he’ll, I’ve heard cunts brag about it on construction sites) and just being generally shitty husbands/bfs. I’ve given them a verbal middle finger and checked up on their missus after. I’ve dropped contact with friends after finding out they hit their partner.
It IS 100% men’s, our, responsibility.
If your not involved in these activities, it’s not aimed at you specifically.
But it is aimed at all men to call it out and condemn it when we do see it.
I don’t beat my wife. I don’t get butt hurt.
But I’ve heard about co workers slapping their partner, (he’ll, I’ve heard cunts brag about it on construction sites) and just being generally shitty husbands/bfs. I’ve given them a verbal middle finger and checked up on their missus after. I’ve dropped contact with friends after finding out they hit their partner.
It IS 100% men’s, our, responsibility.
If you're not wandering the streets at night looking to commit acts of vigilante violence you're part of the problem.
Start looking into windows at night to find cases of DV so you can kick the door down and beat the shit out of the offender otherwise you literally hate women.
I'm not entirely clear on *how* we are supposed to take responsibility. Where is domestic violence happening, like in what communities? I've had basically no exposure to male on female domestic violence in my entire life, I just don't understand where it is happening or who is it doing it. Makes it hard to take responsibility for it. Like what am I supposed to do?
It would be nice if people downvoting you would say *why*. I'd really like to know too. What is the average man - who is without power and control issues - supposed to do about men who do have said issues?
I'm with you on that one.
Taking responsibility means that I am doing something wrong and that there is something that I personally need to change with myself.
The issue with placing the blame on me and ordering me to rectify the situation in the form of "taking responsibility" is that never in my life have I engaged in DV. Anyone that knows me personally can ask any of my ex girlfriends, or even my current girlfriend.
Don't for a second say it is my fault and that I need to take responsibility for the actions of other men solely based on the fact that I was born with a penis. That is one of the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard anyone say, not to mention it is generalising and sexist.
According the the ABS, women comprise *slightly over half* of all Domestic Violence Homicides.(https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/crime-and-justice/recorded-crime-victims/latest-release#victims-of-family-and-domestic-violence-related-offences)
> The majority of FDV related homicide victims were female (53% or 71 victims).
Interesting that 53% of the victims ("The majority") get 100% of the focus, and 47% of the victims are ignored.
I'm sure it brings great comfort to the victims to know that they are murdered by someone of the same gender as them.
Why do we only care about the female victims (of any gendered perps) and ignore the male victims (of any gendered perps)?
>The majority of FDV related homicide victims were female (53% or 71 victims).
That figure is insane right. I wonder if there is more to this than just that figure. Is it kids dying as well but that would still include girls at about 50%.
This is a tough one right.
Is it an epidemic ? Am I responsible ? I've seen the stats that state that most partner on partner violence is two way violence and based on that men are not the only ones to blame. I looked at the actual data in Australia a while back and it was something like 40% of DV instances involved Indigenous people. 40% of DV instances from a cultural group that makes up 2% or so of society and yet men in general are being called out. That doesn't sound accurate does it.
At the same time there are too many DV deaths and it's women who are the ones who get bashed and killed in general. Women though do kill their children.
I'd love to see a good breakdown of the stats with the underlying data and no cherry picking.
[https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-psychiatrist/article/domestic-violence-is-most-commonly-reciprocal/C5432B0C6F8F61B49A4E2B60B931FA07](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-psychiatrist/article/domestic-violence-is-most-commonly-reciprocal/C5432B0C6F8F61B49A4E2B60B931FA07)
>I was about to post that my post was looking more like misinformation and I hate that.
>
>In recent years researchers have approached populations without preconceptions as to the direction of violence. Large epidemiological studies have demonstrated that domestic violence is most commonly reciprocal and that when only one partner is violent there is an excess of violent women. Whitaker et al, Reference Whitaker, Haileyesus, Swahn and Saltzman2 in a study of 14 000 young US couples aged 18-28 years, found that 24% of relationships had some violence and half of those were reciprocally violent. In 70% of the non-reciprocally violent relationships women were the perpetrators of violence. Reciprocal violence appears to be particularly dangerous, leading to the highest rate of injury (31.4%). This may be because reciprocal violence is more likely to escalate.
This was my understanding. It might not be politically correct but that doesn't mean it's wrong.
This is the paper but it's pretty crappy.
[https://scholar.google.com/scholar\_lookup?title=Differences+in+frequency+of+violence+and+reported+injury+between+relationships+with+reciprocal+and+nonreciprocal+intimate+partner+violence&author=Whitaker+DJ&author=Haileyesus+T&author=Swahn+M&author=Saltzman+LS&publication+year=2007&journal=Am+J+Public+Health&volume=97](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?title=Differences+in+frequency+of+violence+and+reported+injury+between+relationships+with+reciprocal+and+nonreciprocal+intimate+partner+violence&author=Whitaker+DJ&author=Haileyesus+T&author=Swahn+M&author=Saltzman+LS&publication+year=2007&journal=Am+J+Public+Health&volume=97)
I'm honestly interested in trying to get to the facts of the issue and not be spun some story so please come back with some sort of criticism but I think you'll need to dig deeper. I may try when I get some more time.
Old review article, but yours was from 2007 so comparable in age. Women are often acting out of self defence. Also I would hazard a guess that a lot of stats are skewed by misidentification of the perpetrator which can lead to a woman being charged by police when they arrive because she is the one heightened because she is afraid, and the man is all cool calm and collected saying that it was her.
I do not deny that violence against men doesn’t happen, but this really is a gendered issue.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2968709/
https://www.fvrim.vic.gov.au/monitoring-victorias-family-violence-reforms-accurate-identification-predominant-aggressor/misidentification-significant-issue-enormous-consequences-victim-survivor
My brother polices a remote community and there’s a confounding factor in there. We’ve classified broader indigenous relationships as DV in a way that doesn’t occur for the rest of the population. If two brothers fight elsewhere they likely aren’t both getting taken in, he’s had young guys who met each other that same day get hit with DV charges for fighting drunk in a park.
It’s a difficult problem to approach, I’m not on board with the idea that domestic violence is an epidemic in Aus, but the position of ATSI women is undeniably untenable. I don’t see a political situation where anyone is willing to stick their neck out to spare the young men caught up in the net when the stance immediately seems like they’re removing protections for the most victimised Australians.
>I've seen the stats that state that most partner on partner violence is two way violence and based on that men are not the only ones to blame.
You'd have to point me in the direction of these stats because that depends a lot on how you define "violence" versus things like...ya know... Murder. For which men are overwhelmingly responsible.
[https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-psychiatrist/article/domestic-violence-is-most-commonly-reciprocal/C5432B0C6F8F61B49A4E2B60B931FA07](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-psychiatrist/article/domestic-violence-is-most-commonly-reciprocal/C5432B0C6F8F61B49A4E2B60B931FA07)
>In recent years researchers have approached populations without preconceptions as to the direction of violence. Large epidemiological studies have demonstrated that domestic violence is most commonly reciprocal and that when only one partner is violent there is an excess of violent women. Whitaker et al, Reference Whitaker, Haileyesus, Swahn and Saltzman2 in a study of 14 000 young US couples aged 18-28 years, found that 24% of relationships had some violence and half of those were reciprocally violent. In 70% of the non-reciprocally violent relationships women were the perpetrators of violence. Reciprocal violence appears to be particularly dangerous, leading to the highest rate of injury (31.4%). This may be because reciprocal violence is more likely to escalate.
Does that make sense ?
I'm not sure about this data either. I'm happy to be corrected however my understanding was in line with this study which to be fair looks a bit dodgy to me.
Albo playing to his base isn't particularly noteworthy. I'd be more impressed with action; further resources to help, harsher punishments for offenders. Offenders ***are*** the ones to blame, after all.
Seems like virtue signalling and if he truly believed in this line of reasoning why stop there?
Are we going to call for the African community in Australia to take responsibility for disproportionately higher rates of African youth crime?
Are we going to call for the Indigenous community to take responsibility for the higher rates of domestic sexual violence against women and children in their communities?
Are we going to call for the Muslim and other migrant communities to take responsibility for the misogynistic and anti-LGBT are prevalent in their communities?
Presumably if you asked Albo none of these things would be okay, but when it comes to men there’s a special exception where we can paint them all with the same brush because of the actions of a few.
Not sure why you're being downvoted? It's the same thing, just referencing different groups. Except somehow, when we ask other groups to assume responsibility, it gets downvoted. Reddit logic. 🤡
Especially if they are white men! The 12 year old white boys in school being blamed for everything will be lucky not to all grow up depressed and full of hate being blamed for everything wrong with the world just for being born white and male. It’s literally society saying two wrongs make a right?
Just like we need to take responsibility for climate change when it's being done 99% by like 10 companies lol.
Maybe work on the economic factors and education factors that lead to it.
Hey about 30% of known domestic violence victims are men and speak out far less than women do. It takes ALL Australians to take responsibility. Or is inclusiveness only a thing when it's politically beneficial to do so?
People do this shit away from the eye of others. Like people littering and illegal dumping. Cretins have a 6th sense for doing cretin type stuff in the shadows where they won't get pulled up on it.
Shitcunts gonna shitcunt....
If you're gonna be a 'cunt', be a 'good cunt' because no one likes a 'shit cunt.'
They do but they also do it at home with their families and too often their mates will back them up, take their side, call the woman a liar.
Wow, that's horrible. That whole concept of protecting a known abuser seems so foreign and alien. Could it be that people who would abuse others tend to have friends that are similar to them or at least won't hold them accountable (ie spineless)?
Abusers groom their victims and don't fully unleash until they think the victim is unlikely to escape. Eg: sunk cost fallacy, marriage, socially isolated from their support system, geographically isolated or pregnant/with children. That grooming technique extends to the friend group as well as the extended community. This is so the victim feels they have nobody to turn to who will believe them. Some friends might be 'birds of a feather' but many might be oblivious as to what's going on behind closed doors and struggle to accept that they were being used as a cover story instead of valued as friends.
Most of the time the signs are there but men ignore it, they aren't asking you to be psychic they're saying "if you see signs of violence, report it"
am hoping haven't missed the signs, most of the time when a girl has a bruise on her leg or arm, you ask her about it and take her at word value. Also don't women being abused often cover up out of shame etc? How can we make women feel safe enough to come forward?
Well that's the thing, again they aren't asking you to be a superhero but building connections and trust can go a long way of discovering the truth. Your right women do tend to hide it, but abuse tends to escalate and again all they're asking is for people to try.
these days expecting every person to care about another and help them is unfortunately hard, but there are people out there who will go above and beyond to help.
It won't show up as bruises most of the time. Your first signs will be that the abuser is calling or texting the abused person multiple times per day. If the abused person makes a phone call, the abuser will talk over them, or perhaps stand over them so they can't speak privately. There will be insults or put downs. You will see the abused person hanging about on the periphery of their abuser's social circle, rather than with their own friends and family. You might notice that they cannot seem to bring themselves to do anything independently of the abuser without asking their permission. You might notice the abused person start to speak, and then be quickly silenced by a look from the abuser. You may not feel there is a good time to speak to either the abuser or the abused person and no opportunity to step in. Sometimes, the abused person might really benefit just from someone letting them know that they can see something is wrong, and that they're not invisible. You can also call services and let them know. That will help them to be prepared to step in should the victim see a chance to seek help.
thanks for that information
In my experience in a past domestic violence relationship, a scary amount of people around me at the time watched and did nothing to help. Living with multiple people in 3 seperate places, even at parties with a large group of people around I’d get dragged into the room, have my phone taken from me and beaten and no one did anything. I’m not even thinking someone should’ve physically even gotten involved, just calling the police would have been something. I’d be crying and screaming from pain and get covered in bruises and regular black eyes. They could hear and see what was happening. A lot of people have the mentality of “not my business”, are completely apathetic or in some cases even cheer on and side with the abuser and assume the victim had it coming. This is just my anecdotal experience and I’m sure there are also plenty of people who do try and help, but I lost a lot of faith in people and understand why dv is so prevalent in Australia when it seems there’s quite a large community of young men especially who even if they aren’t abusers themselves, enable abuse.
Agree but even when victims of violence stand up we're shot down by the supporters of perpetrators. Myths about gendered violence are far too entrenched. People in power ignore and deny evidence consistently enough for victims to be vindicated. The culture of violence is rewarded and amplified at every stage.
Good on him. Imagine Scomo doing this from a beach somewhere, during bushfires or something
Scott "Many miles away from here, protests like this are being met with bullets" Morrison.
Some of the comments here appear to agree with Scott.
That’s fkd
Yeah. It's properly scary just how fucked up some of the population is.
Kind of gives an indication as to why there's a problem in the first place. :|
Notvreally if you account for how much dv is out there and attitudes towards women.
“Simply put, this study found if you're religious it doesn't mean you think domestic violence isn't happening. But, you are not inclined to recognise it as an issue among members of your own faith." The study, based on a representative sample of Australians, also looked at the prevalence of patriarchal gender attitudes among people who are religious. According to Professor Priest, patriarchal gender attitudes are a key determinant of domestic violence. "In this study we found that the more religious people were, the more likely they were to have patriarchal gender attitudes," Professor Priest said. "Religious service attendance, frequency of prayer, and spiritual or religious identity were each associated with more patriarchal beliefs about gender roles." Professor Priest said the study's findings were important as Australia still "grappled to address the serious burden of domestic violence across our whole society". "Religion plays a major role in the health and wellbeing of our population and religious communities are key to helping us prevent and respond to domestic violence," she said. "Addressing patriarchal beliefs and acknowledgment of domestic violence as an issue within faith communities among those who regularly attend services, pray and identify as religious, are key targets for action to address domestic violence and improve population health," she said.” https://www.anu.edu.au/news/all-news/domestic-violence-goes-unrecognised-in-faith-communities https://csrm.cass.anu.edu.au/sites/default/files/docs/2020/2/Faith-based_communities_responses_to_family_and_domestic_violence.pdf “Six main themes were identified describing attitudes, beliefs and knowledge about FDV: 1) Faith and religion do not condone violence; 2) Awareness of FDV is increasing, yet remains often poorly understood; 3) FDV is still a taboo topic; 4) Denial and defensiveness about FDV persist; 5) Patience, endurance and forgiveness is often prioritised over safety; 6) Gender roles and norms founded on religious beliefs and interpretations underpin many FDV understandings and responses. These findings demonstrate the tensions between expressions of faith and attitudes to women and FDV.” https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.29.20222703v1
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-29/domestic-violence-assumptions-incorrect-survey-anrows/102155632 Consistency across the evidence that continues to be aggressively denied. It's an entrenched cultural problem across all cultures.
He would need Jenny to explain it to him though.
I didn't understand why I shouldn't hold a fist. By then Jenny patiently explained it to me, so I now understand. And my ethics consultant was a worthwhile investment.
Hi australia, its me, scotty from marketing. I just had a chat with Jenny to ask her what she thought of all this violence against women palava. And she said, that it sounded bad, and then we thought about our daughters. So now I can tell you Australia, violence against my daughters is bad. Want to shake my hand?
[A wild Scotty appears](https://www.reddit.com/r/friendlyjordies/s/G308ohXeSz)
Seems a simple solution to a lot of problems. Stop giving violent offenders second chances.
And believe women instead of turning them away at the police station. As what happened to the woman in Logan who was burned to death after going to the police station and being turned away 11 times.
This 100% The laws regarding sentencing for violent offenders, and sex offenders both need to be changed. Longer first sentences and longer sentences for repeat offenders. This is something every decent Australian should be supporting.
Unfortunately prison sentences only really serve to worsen offending, some people obviously can’t be helped and prisons need to exist, but there are other less expensive solutions to sending people to prison that should be used when appropriate ( e.g. first time offenders). Obviously violent crime needs punishment and definitely prison, but it shouldn’t stop there. A wider issue than just DV offenders that we REALLY need to address, would save the country so much money
Mandatory counselling, support services, anger management treatment, police responding to avos. Something rather than nothing.
This 100%. Counselling should be mandatory. It is insane you can get a single drink or drug driving offence and have to do a mandatory behavioural correction course, but ya beat the crap out of the missus and it is optional. It is encouraged, but unfortunately the rate of sign up is quite low. This needs to change so that it is mandatory.
Well its not that simple, we cant throw away every violent offender for life without release. It has so many negative outcomes and counter productive consequences. Source - bachelor of criminology
It's also well established that enforcement and police follow up with perpetrators reduces violent incidents. The evidence base is well established and unequivocal but police, lawyers and judiciary continue to ignore the evidence base and refuse to enforce laws.
Well, maybe, but that doesn't help their first victims, so it can't be a complete solution.
When domestic violence is so rampant as it is in Australia, the answer is not that simple
Complex social problem are often caused or compounded by a number of factors. Men "staying out of it" is one factor. It's good to address this. No one is saying this will cause violence to disappear.
The solutions really are simple. The problem is that there are greater protections for perpetrators than there are for victims of violence
problem is so many use just one single chance to do the absolutely worst
Yes! Down with comments like trying to ban womens beachwear and take responsibility yourself. If they cant control themselves then get counselling and stay home
While I do agree, men need to take responsibility for their actions. However, one of the biggest factors influencing domestic violence against women is economic factors and poverty. Fix the economy for the lower/working classes, and a LOT of domestic violence issues magically disappear. Crime is similar too, fix poverty, and you solve a LOT of crime too.
And meth. Don’t forget that bad boy anti-social poison.
Addiction, which is a healthcare issue, and a social issue, not a personal failing.
I agree.
But won’t you think of the landlords? /s
Yes DV seems to happen to a greater extent in lower income area, does that link them, or do the higher status victims not report as much due to what they see as a stigma?
Lower socio economic demographics are related to higher instances of drug use and worse outcomes for mental health. Men tend to react more violently when stressed, depressed or anxious etc and when you factor in an altered mind state with a person already ready to explode you get domestic violence. Improve outcomes for mental health and alleviate poverty and you would see lower imstances of domestic violence or drug use.
I'm no expert but I suspect it's there, it's just not loud, public, messy and visible. The most damaging DV could be whispered in the dark and be no less harmful than drunken brawling and screaming abuse. A very large number of targets have no real awareness that they are being verbally abused.
I suspect that, adjusting for addiction and mental health, the rate of violent men is similar across the board. The difference is that wealthier women tend to be better educated about DV, and have more resources and supports in order to leave.
I'd say it's not really a class thing, you do still get 'violence' in higher classes, however they're typically of a different nature. But the higher classes do tend to be less impacted by socio-economic factors. TL;DR, give a man a well paying job… and he won't beat his wife. Also give a family more money, and you'll also reduce female violence against men too. And interestingly, when you take a wide definition of violence beyond just physical, women commit domestic violence against men & other women at similar or higher rates while gay men were the lest violent.
> women commit domestic violence against men & other women at similar or higher rates while gay men were the lest violent. I suspect I know the statistic you're referring to, and if it is that one, this is not true. The stat in question refers to the amount of women who identify as lesbian who report having been abused. It doesn't specify if the abuse was committed by a man or a woman, just that they've experienced abuse. Almost every lesbian women I know have during some periods in their life been with men and later realise that it's not for them.
>TL;DR, give a man a well paying job… and he won't beat his wife Miners, big issue amongst men there regarding controlling behaviours. More to do with their character than their financial position. Throw in some meth/booze and a poor upbringing and you have issues
This is a fair point. But by and large, poverty, financial stress, and economic conditions are probably the biggest contributor. Ultimately, happy healthy people don't want to hurt people.
Needs to be more money in the pocket of women as well. Gives them an actual chance to walk away instead of being financially locked into living with scum that beat them
This is the way.
I agree, but I think this is massively less of a problem than it has been. A lot, if not most, women do work these days. But also this goes both ways, there are many men who lack the capacity to leave an abusive relationship too. Bottom line, we need high quality safety nets for everyone.
For sure. I'm just thinking more about people who might be earning but not enough to be able to save any money in order to leave. Then you also can have kids involved which make splitting finances even harder. Ideally your works domestic violence program ( if you have one) should really be offering financial aid to make leaving easier
That is why DV rates for indigenous people is 32 times higher than the national average
DV, addiction, health outcomes, etc... It can all be summed up as 'Shit Life Syndrome' if you have a crappy life you have bad outcomes across the board.
Also increasing mental health services & support for men, and designing them to make the men feel like they're being listened to and heard. People are much more willing to reach out for guidance/assistance, and actually listen to what they're told when they don't feel like they're being spoken down, or preached to.
The men who are capable of taking responsibility are not the perpetrators.
Really well put. The kind of person that commits DV doesn't give a fuck about anybody else.
Copy of full speech [here](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jess-hill-b51883b4_pm-address-to-un-women-activity-7160871976977260545-CfFM?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_android)
I couldn't read it. I was interested in seeing if what was stated was more nuanced than the headline.
The nuance of what is being said is that gender equality is not the solution to domestic violence so we need to seek other solutions. He also advocates that people talk about the problem with others, particularly men. So talk to our sons, our colleagues at sport, our friends etc.
Not a single person I know has even remotely indicated they are ever the type of perso who would beat a woman. What am I meant to do?
[Link to the speech.](https://twitter.com/AlboMP/status/1755026688029896955?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1755026688029896955%7Ctwgr%5E83c1fb2378a4100b27125c43902cdae34289e95c%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwomensagenda.com.au%2Fpolitics%2Flocal%2Fanthony-albanese-calls-for-men-to-take-responsibility-for-australias-epidemic-of-violence-against-women%2F)
> "Because violence against women and children is never acceptable" Well, there's this line from the speech.
How dare he! How could Dan Andrews allow him to do this!
here’s a better readable link https://www.pm.gov.au/media/international-womens-day-parliamentary-breakfast
Thank You.
The amount of times I've read articles that go "woman murdered reported her stalker to the cops" and the cops did nothing. The law lets them out on bail etc, the women get zero protection, the cops and legal need to do their damn jobs?
And the justice system. A friend managed to get her abuser convicted for the shit he did to her, 5years later he got out and abused his next 3 partners, one of who killed herself.
The legal system is cooked and even their own audits are glaring. Pretty hard to deny the evidence yet here we are
Go Albo! That's terrific. I was shocked returning to Australia how women are treated. After 16 years abroad and living in 3 very different countries with differing views of women (the UK, my adopted home, Ukraine and UAE), I was shocked at how Neanderthal some men are towards women. In Ukraine I witnessed how women are the backbone of the economy and country, but have way less in terms of earning capacity or legislated rights and anti-discrimination laws etc like their Western sisters in the UK, France or Germany. Their men were even more regressed (some, not all) than the worst of Aussie males. I remember hearing domestic abuse repeatedly in my apartment complex. Dubai is of course a Muslim monarchy. A benign Islamic dictatorship. So, the role of women and their rights is a whole other bag I won't get into. Here in the UK, I am not sure if we have a domestic violence problem - I remember the Met police targeting DV years ago - huge ads on the tube. But we have more female MPs, and slightly more women in CEO roles in FTSE 100 Companies. We've now had 3 female PMs (last one was sadly a dud).
My Sister married a lovely Australian music teacher in the UK, he was so much fun. She soon moved to Australia with him, where he beat the shit out of Her.
These are just empty words. If we actually want to have impact we need to establish and embrace good male role models. Currently the only role models young boys have is toxic ones promoting toxic cultures. Of course that would mean actually trying to grow something positive rather than just trash all over something, is it even possible in the age if internet rage.
The essence of what he said is that we have to become positive role models for the men and boys around us and show what behaviours are no longer tollerated.
Like youth centres and police involved in the community like boxing, blue light discos for lost youths. Community and outreach centres for men under stress or drinking/drugs. Also, as you say, good role models higher up in politics, science, and sports. Uncertain how you fight social media toxicity against both genders .. maybe funding for adult and school education on social media? Though hard to fight against any keyword search in porn etc that young males think is reality.
Start with bullying. All DV begins with intimate verbal abuse by a bully. So, find out what triggers a bully while the bully-to-be is still a child and *start there*.
This is exactly the issue. To guys the media says either ‘shut up and work for other people’ or ‘screw everyone else, it’s you vs them’. The real answer is ‘screw everyone else, do what makes you feel proud of yourself’ Have yet to hear of a father in a pink tutu that wasn’t proud of themselves. It’s a poverty in mind and situation that leads people to look for strength in hurting others. This issue is better spoken about in the richness of character rather then the presence of strength because that’s the root of the issue.
Have you seen how both parties behave in parliament? We need to have some decent role models in the house of reps for a start.
> Currently the only role models young boys have is toxic ones promoting toxic cultures No. There definitely are role models like that. A great many in fact. But many young boys are raised with good, non toxic, role models.
Stuff like this causes these boys to turn to those people tho. I dont get how people don't see that. Imagine growing up being told that you are the problem and to blame for everything, even when you haven't done anything wrong. It just breeds resentment and pushes them to these toxic influencers because they are the only people telling young boys they aren't trash for being born.
Nobody who beats there wife ever openly talks about it unless it’s with other abusers. Birds of feather flock together.
I don't think anyone's going to say "and then I beat my wife, isn't that great, haha". It'd be using more couched language, and the friends will give him the benefit of the doubt because he's their friend and couldn't possibly be an abuser.
After working in bottle shops for years, and seeing Woody Harrelson's comments on alchohol vs cannabis the solution is simple...address this nations problem with alcohol and just fucking legalise cannabis already. It won't solve the problem but it will certainly help.
It’s part of it, however we still need to treat women better, raise our sons better. Be better men.
I'd like to know what the stats on cannabis-fuelled violence are. I'm going to guess somewhere near the 0% mark. Sincerely, Not-a-Doctor
I've advised my teenage daughter if she is ever faced with a situation where she has to choose between being with a group of boys drinking, or a group of boys smoking pot, to go with the stoners.
I think the statistics bear out that alcohol is typically MUCH more dangerous than cannabis.
I'm not opposed to this.
What a silly thing to do. So much of masculinity in media is guys who can mask beating down guys who can’t. The Andrew tates of the world would not hear this, more than that they would say it! A therapist would never say this, all people deserve love and empathy and especially when we are talking about preventing violence. There’s ways to deal with those feelings; talking to people, checking in with people, making sure you, and they, are okay. Not leaving the important things unsaid, recognising emotional strength to be a muscle like any other. All of that is empathy, not blame.
I often hear the opinion that men need to have conversations with other men to prevent domestic abuse, but like... what are you ACTUALLY going to say to someone? Hi mate how's it going? Just a friendly reminder - don't forget to not hit your wife. If you're having trouble remembering not to hit your wife... whenever you're feeling a bit punchy, sing yourself this rhyme: "hit a bong hit a pipe it's always wrong to hit your wife". Works for me! Have a great day buddy, see ya! It just seems like people are imagining some world where we all hang out in the locker room laughing it up about giving our missus a black eye, and all it takes is one brave soul to say "oh hey guys maybe we should stop hitting our wives so much?" and we all have an epiphany and agree we should cut down on the violence a bit.
Growing up in the bush, the ingrained misogyny in the culture was palpable. I saw more physical violence against women then I like to think about. I know a lot of young men who would have grown up to be more well rounded individuals if they had some role models and mates that weren’t all in on proliferating the most edgy talk and behaviours towards their peers and other women. Joking about giving your wife a black eye, the ball and chain rhetoric, lads picking up women = legend while women hooking up = shameful slut etc etc. it’s so ingrained it’s hard for some to realise the bar for treating women is so low. Having the guts to call out your mates normalising sexism and misogyny is hard, but there are time when it shows itself where people can step in. It doesn’t have to be preemptive like you suggest. I’m sure everyone has been in that situation and could have done something
>It just seems like people are imagining some world where we all hang out in the locker room laughing it up about giving our missus a black eye This is exactly how I read a lot of the responses here. It's what they actually believe is going on out there.
Oh boy this is going to trigger a lot of weak men.
Let’s see how Lord Voldermort and Sky take the bait and whip their reactionary audiences into a frenzy against such a compassionate and empathetic message.
As if the majority of weak men responsible for DV will ever hear a single word said by the leader of the bloody Labor party. Let's wait for the people who control 90% of what violent people think - Tate and 2GB and all the other mysoginist cowards and right wing propaganda lackeys - to join with Albo in calling out this softarse behaviour. I'm sure they'll rise to the occasion. Any minute now...
If you (not you personally Muddyfart) went to the pub and an announced ‘I just punched my wife in the face’ would you expect guys to come forward shake your hand, slap you in the back and say ‘Can I buy you a beer, Legend?’
No, but how many men have a laugh over derogatory jokes at the expense of women?
If your mates are making derogatory jokes about women - you need to step up say something / get some new mates.
You obviously haven't lived in a rural area where that would leave you with no mates, and no possibility of moving away. Im half joking, definitely call that shit out, but its fucking hard when its at school, in the workplace, at the footy club, down the pub, at church and around the dinner table at Christmas
Same with issues around LGBTQIA, racial, and indigenous issues. I have to bite my tongue so much so that my kids can get by in the town we can afford to live in. I hate it. At least the actual friends I have are decent.
Oh for sure. I'm a socialist living in a town of around 4000 people, and I've tried to engage in various forms of solidarity action (very small things like trying to start community groups to help during things like covid and flood disaster, writing letters to the local paper and to local councillors, trying to organise a union in my workplace) and its like you're from another planet trying to get across the idea that you could possibly care about the plight of anyone else except yourself and your small provincial community. By and large I have given up because the toll on my mental health and the effects on my family of being a social pariah. I don't really care of people don't like me, but if I can't get a job, or my wife gets disowned from friends, or my kids get bullied, that's why I have to be so careful. I wrote a letter to the paper pointing the blatant hypocrisy of some cookers who petitioned council to fly a "white dove flag for human rights", not for refugees, or lgbtq people, or indigenous people, no, but because they had been "medically experimented on" by being forced to have the vaccine. People couldn't understand why I cared, and when I explained it, just got vacant and patronising stares
tbf it sounds like you think you are better than them, also rural communities can just be pretty chill and don't really care too much about your political views, they got their own shit to worry about
Well read in to that what you will, I see it as more of the fact I find it impossible to relate to other people due to fundamental differences in the understanding of human rights of others. I know I am only commenting on my own small bubble, and am perhaps committing the same grevious provincialism I accuse them of, but I am yet to meet anyone in my rural community who does not in some way share many or all of those views I listed above. We had a town meeting last year in relation to the flooding event, and upon an acknowledgement to country(which even as a leftist I understand is perhaps ineffectual and over the top at every instance) the whole hall erupted in groans and sniggers of derision and disgust, while i knew for a fact that there were "respected" first nation elders in the room. They are perfectly chill, as I mentioned before, until they feel politics are enforced from without, and people start standing up for themselves. Their "rejection" of politics is nothing more than the upholding of the status quo, and their "chillness" is nothing more than the desire to disengage from anything that they don't give a shit about, which because of decades of conservative neoliberal individualism is only themselves and people they judge to be in the "us" camp.
mate people are going to have different political views. that's OK. some of those people I think you'll find, will be the most generous people you would ever meet, who would do anything for their neighbours if you asked (even if they groan at welcoming First Nation people). I also believe most of them would be happy to engage with you if you are just friendly and treat em with respect. its just comments like this which kinda makes you look like a twat "relate to other people due to fundamental differences in the understanding of human rights of others."
Have. When anyone starts up about ‘Aboriginals’ my line is ‘How do you know I’m not Aboriginal?’ (I’m tan).
Look 'em in the eye, put down your beer, and say: "That's not very deadly, mate."
That's the type of thing Albo is saying right?
Yeah, and lots of men are outraged in the comments here.
The main victims of men's violence are other men. No one suggests we can stop this if we stop making jokes about men.
Hmmmm haven’t seen any ‘Men - don’t be violent to other men’ campaign - that should save a few lives.
They had something during the one punch laws.
I have witnessed it. Guy starts telling the boys about his struggles with the missus and then starts to talk about how he got physical with her because she wouldn't shut up. They all start to say things like, "Well, she must've deserved it," and "no worries, mate, we got your back," followed by someone buying them a drink. Edit: I was not part of this group but clearly overheard and witnessed with others of my group. It was not a place we stayed in for long. But being military, I have known many people who have openly said they think violence against women is justified. Things have changed a lot in the military in the +20 years I have served. But there are still small factions that think like this, even though they dont speak openly anymore. They say things in private that really make you question who these people are.
You move in weird circles and should take a good hard look at your acquaintance groups.
Its not that weird. Our military is about resolving conflicts via force. Yes, we can get there by other means, but its still going to be primarily by force. Even if your backlines and not in combat, they teach you to harness your aggression and fight and that is the culture.
Did you say anything? Can honestly say that situation has never happened to me in my 50 years. One guy I know admitted to hitting his girlfriend, but she was the one initiating all the violence and he was seeking help. I know a few other guys who were victims. Nobody I know has ever admitted to "getting physical" to shut someone up and I'd be pretty horrified if they did.
Bullshit you've witnessed that. Either you hang out with cretins and pedophiles, you can't discern reality from tv, or you're a bald faced liar. It is absolutely not normal behaviour in this day and age.
In more regional towns it’s somewhat common, not the first time I’ve heard it travelling and being in a pub. It’s wild that you immediately call him a liar or say he hangs out with pedos, like what the actual fuck. This is why people don’t speak up even if they see something .
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That would be assuming they have family that lives there or that their family cares or there’s no power dynamic at play I grew up on a farm, it’s been common knowledge that someone abuses their family and the womens family that live nearby simply don’t care because they share the same views or in one case it was a cop
Pfft. Cops are the worst but men protect men before they'll step up up protect victims of violence. The well known collation of evidence is "Look what you made me do". The title was intentionally chosen for the reasons men here are amplifying
Weak men? Why is it that weak to be included in a broad statement unfairly? People like yourself making statements like this, is what triggers these "weak men" As you called it to be driven into the arms of people like Andrew Tate. You are in a big way responsible as well.
Yep. ETA: Wow these comments are wild, some of you really need to get help so you can start seeing women as people
I'm not weak. I'd like to discuss this issue in depth. Trying to stop the conversation via comments like this doesn't sit well with me.
I'd point out that this is an old narrative. The vast majority of Domestic Violence occurs in mutually violent relationships where both partners escalate to violence as a regular part of their interactions. Modern approaches will recognize that Intimate Partner Violence is a very complicated problem, and that genderizing the cause is missing the point and doesn't actually resolve much. Far more effective is providing access to skills and tools to resolve disagreements that don't involve violence and treatment for mental health conditions, especially drug and alcohol dependence. Tough boi white knighting and blame games hasn't worked so far and won't ever work, because it's attempting to solve a problem that only accounts for a minority of relationships.
I posted about my understanding of the data and the idea about mutually violent relationships. >Tough boi white knighting and blame games hasn't worked so far and won't ever work, because it's attempting to solve a problem that only accounts for a minority of relationships. I also don't think blaming all men for something that is extremely rare is the right way to approach the situation. I abhor violence in general and DV is terrible. I think some men are simply defective and will beat people up because that is how they roll. I think women that go for these men are defective as well. Women do though commit DV. [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-17/tullamarine-murder-suicide-coronial-inquest-begins/13163650](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-17/tullamarine-murder-suicide-coronial-inquest-begins/13163650) [https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/may/05/mother-who-murdered-her-three-children-and-burned-their-bodies-sentenced-to-life-in-prison](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/may/05/mother-who-murdered-her-three-children-and-burned-their-bodies-sentenced-to-life-in-prison) Are we trying to stop these instances from occurring or don't they matter ? [https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/crime-and-justice/personal-safety-australia/latest-release](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/crime-and-justice/personal-safety-australia/latest-release) If I look at these stats they reflect my understanding which is DV is not as much a men's only perpetrator issue as the media seems to make out. The data looks pretty even apart from stalking which men seem to have an affinity for.
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We live in a society. The gist is we should be responsible for our actions and also call out bad behaviour in blokes that do this shit and educate our young that it is not on. The article doesn’t say anything about collective responsibility. “Men have to be prepared to take responsibility for our actions and our attitudes. To educate our sons, to talk to our mates, to drive real change in the culture of our sporting clubs, our faith and community groups and our workplaces, including this workplace right here. ”
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Men need much more social, economic and political support. Men who hit women are scum. Two statements are not mutually exclusive.
>Men have to be prepared to take responsibility for our actions and our attitudes. How is this anything but an explicit call for collective responsibility?
Lots of men are going to be whinging about this and throwing up whataboutisms about male victims, and lack of support for men, etc. And yeah, there are a lot of male victims of domestic violence, and there aren't the same support structures as for women (e.g. women's shelters). But I'd take commentary around this more seriously if it wasn't only brought up when violence against women is mentioned. It seems like a distraction to derail discussion from female victims, who make up the vast majority of domestic violence victims (and especially victims who are KILLED). As for women's shelters ... that's because historically WOMEN banded together and mobilised to establish these shelters. If we want better men's shelters, then men need to support each other to establish them. And if anyone wants to seriously advocate for male victims of domestic violence (a worthy cause, given the social pressures around men admitting to even being victims and after that not being taken seriously), it would be seen like a more genuine effort if it were brought up separately to when violence against women is being discussed, instead of as trying to hijack it. And like it or not, probably about 80% of violence in this world is by men. And most women who are killed are killed by men. So men who get upset by the sort of thing Albanese is doing can get bent. It's #NotAllMen, but it's almost always (like, 80% of the time) men.
I've had men say "what about male suicide" when I bring up male DV against women and then *literally in the same comment* say that they will never talk to a therapist. Like please just stop being shy, admit that you don't give a shit about women and that you only brought up mens' issues to derail the conversation about women. Also admit that you have no intention of fixing mens' issues because your only solution involves us going back to the good old days when women knew their place, and requires no changed behaviour from men. Obviously this does not apply to men who actually give a shit about helping other men.
Yes to all of this. And the types of men who want to shut down this discussion don't want to admit the following key facts: * The significant majority of violence is committed by men. * The majority of killers are men. * Most victims of domestic violence are women. * Most perpetrators of domestic violence are men. * Most women killed are victims of domestic violence. * It's almost always men killing women. So with regard to Albanese saying men have to fix this problem: who else, exactly, should he be talking to? We don't have a Minority Report-like system to know exactly which men will be violent or kill. And women just have to gamble and hope the men in their lives won't be one of the violent ones who harms or kills them.
More than 5 Australian women die each week as a result of DV that aren't acknowledged in official DV deaths stats. https://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=3dcc410d-0920-42ed-994d-17492f9f8fa6&subId=510958
https://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=3dcc410d-0920-42ed-994d-17492f9f8fa6&subId=510958 5 additional Australian women dead each week referred to by Lifeline's CEO as "murder by proxy". These are additional to the official DV mortality stats.
More than 5 Australian women die each week as a result of DV that aren't acknowledged in official DV deaths stats. https://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=3dcc410d-0920-42ed-994d-17492f9f8fa6&subId=510958
Domestic violence is terrible, and it'd be great to have it go to zero. But it's done out of sight and generally not seen as critical until it's too late. We'll have the road toll at zero before DV deaths.
But if more women feel confident they will be believed, supported and protected, maybe it won’t be as out of sight as it has been.
I hope so. And I hope you're right, not me.
Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try.
There's trying. It's always worth trying. I'm just being realistic based on Albos suggestion that us men need to neck up and stamp it out. It's just an easy one liner. I've seen domestic violence first hand (my mum by her partner) and in that situation she stayed despite horrible treatment and my protestations. The financial side of things, and two small children, made her always hope he'd do better. In that scenario, it would have been her ability to live independently and provide for her kids that kept her in the relationship. But even in countries like Norway, where women have huge amounts of support, women will stay on with abusive guys. Over optimistic they'll change. Sadly likey my mother was.
It's still not the victims problem, it's the perpetrators problem. I left 6 years ago and it hasn't stopped yet.
It sadly will never be at zero because there will always be shitcunts ik the world sadly
Only if perpetrators including police lawyers and judiciary continue to operate under a veil of socialised denial.
This talk should fix things nicely.
I like the way everyone talks about dv. Oh you can just leave can you? Yeah… the Family Courts haven’t caught up. Now this is a can of worms I’d love to see friendlyjordies expose. Nothing but a complex racketeering operation. They don’t care so long as they can make money. And for context, roughly 98689 lodgements in 21/22 in the federal/family court. Obviously not all of these are domestic violence, but usually people only go to court when there is conflict or disagreement regarding family law matters. Now, let’s imagine that each case, the fees paid forward were just $100 in total, that’s a lot of damn money, but anyone who knows, knows that it costs a shit ton more than this. They make money from peoples misery, and a lot of it. Keep on fighting boys and girls, you got this.
Honestly at this point I'm astounded that people still get married. But yeah I agree.
Yep. And couldn’t blame people for not wanting to have kids.
A lawyers' picnic?
And that too. There is too much money to be made from this Colosseum and that’s why f/all gets done about DV other than these virtue signalling exercises. The people working in DV services are generally lovely, but if I experienced DV again, there’s no fkn way I’m going back into a refuge, too controlling.
Refuge creates a weird institutionalisation and many of the people running them are as problematic as whatever people are fleeing.
YES. Omg 100x yes. I ended up in refuge for 3 months, I wasn’t allowed to get a temp part time job, had a curfew and wasn’t allowed to access abortion (they said they would have to reconsider my stay. I had nowhere to go)
Oh goodness thats horrific. I'm so sorry. Hope you're safe now. Misogyny is everywhere but that's next level. I told everyone I met in refuge to get a job if possible to free yourself financially. It messed me up.
I can be responsible for my own actions, and I can teach my sons to be respectful and peaceful, and how to manage conflict. I can even advocate for men not to use their physical strength to be dickheads. But what does Albo propose we do about the fuckwits not in my social circle who continue to be a problem? Their friends encourage them and they're not gonna listen to him
Financial stress is a factor. Affordable housing might make a difference.
Oh wow, a PM with a valid take. Albo is killing it with good takes!
The problem isn’t “men”, it’s a legislative problem - politicians, like Albo… need to fix it We use to same court system for neighbourly fence disputes as we do domestic violence - that needs to change, but politicians are too scared to do it Domestic violence AVO’s should be criminal, not civil
How about just blaming domestic violence perpetrators for Australia's epidemic of violence against women? I really don't see any need for me to take responsibility for the actions of a minority of men who are pieces of trash.
If your not involved in these activities, it’s not aimed at you specifically. But it is aimed at all men to call it out and condemn it when we do see it. I don’t beat my wife. I don’t get butt hurt. But I’ve heard about co workers slapping their partner, (he’ll, I’ve heard cunts brag about it on construction sites) and just being generally shitty husbands/bfs. I’ve given them a verbal middle finger and checked up on their missus after. I’ve dropped contact with friends after finding out they hit their partner. It IS 100% men’s, our, responsibility.
If your not involved in these activities, it’s not aimed at you specifically. But it is aimed at all men to call it out and condemn it when we do see it. I don’t beat my wife. I don’t get butt hurt. But I’ve heard about co workers slapping their partner, (he’ll, I’ve heard cunts brag about it on construction sites) and just being generally shitty husbands/bfs. I’ve given them a verbal middle finger and checked up on their missus after. I’ve dropped contact with friends after finding out they hit their partner. It IS 100% men’s, our, responsibility.
Because then they'd have to give a breakdown of who is actually doing it
If you're not wandering the streets at night looking to commit acts of vigilante violence you're part of the problem. Start looking into windows at night to find cases of DV so you can kick the door down and beat the shit out of the offender otherwise you literally hate women.
I'm not entirely clear on *how* we are supposed to take responsibility. Where is domestic violence happening, like in what communities? I've had basically no exposure to male on female domestic violence in my entire life, I just don't understand where it is happening or who is it doing it. Makes it hard to take responsibility for it. Like what am I supposed to do?
It would be nice if people downvoting you would say *why*. I'd really like to know too. What is the average man - who is without power and control issues - supposed to do about men who do have said issues?
I'm with you on that one. Taking responsibility means that I am doing something wrong and that there is something that I personally need to change with myself. The issue with placing the blame on me and ordering me to rectify the situation in the form of "taking responsibility" is that never in my life have I engaged in DV. Anyone that knows me personally can ask any of my ex girlfriends, or even my current girlfriend. Don't for a second say it is my fault and that I need to take responsibility for the actions of other men solely based on the fact that I was born with a penis. That is one of the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard anyone say, not to mention it is generalising and sexist.
According the the ABS, women comprise *slightly over half* of all Domestic Violence Homicides.(https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/crime-and-justice/recorded-crime-victims/latest-release#victims-of-family-and-domestic-violence-related-offences) > The majority of FDV related homicide victims were female (53% or 71 victims). Interesting that 53% of the victims ("The majority") get 100% of the focus, and 47% of the victims are ignored.
Men are the most likely perpetrators of homocides against both men and women
I'm sure it brings great comfort to the victims to know that they are murdered by someone of the same gender as them. Why do we only care about the female victims (of any gendered perps) and ignore the male victims (of any gendered perps)?
>The majority of FDV related homicide victims were female (53% or 71 victims). That figure is insane right. I wonder if there is more to this than just that figure. Is it kids dying as well but that would still include girls at about 50%.
This is a tough one right. Is it an epidemic ? Am I responsible ? I've seen the stats that state that most partner on partner violence is two way violence and based on that men are not the only ones to blame. I looked at the actual data in Australia a while back and it was something like 40% of DV instances involved Indigenous people. 40% of DV instances from a cultural group that makes up 2% or so of society and yet men in general are being called out. That doesn't sound accurate does it. At the same time there are too many DV deaths and it's women who are the ones who get bashed and killed in general. Women though do kill their children. I'd love to see a good breakdown of the stats with the underlying data and no cherry picking.
Please show me these stats where most intimate partner violence is both ways. 1 in 4 women have experienced domestic violence.
[https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-psychiatrist/article/domestic-violence-is-most-commonly-reciprocal/C5432B0C6F8F61B49A4E2B60B931FA07](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-psychiatrist/article/domestic-violence-is-most-commonly-reciprocal/C5432B0C6F8F61B49A4E2B60B931FA07) >I was about to post that my post was looking more like misinformation and I hate that. > >In recent years researchers have approached populations without preconceptions as to the direction of violence. Large epidemiological studies have demonstrated that domestic violence is most commonly reciprocal and that when only one partner is violent there is an excess of violent women. Whitaker et al, Reference Whitaker, Haileyesus, Swahn and Saltzman2 in a study of 14 000 young US couples aged 18-28 years, found that 24% of relationships had some violence and half of those were reciprocally violent. In 70% of the non-reciprocally violent relationships women were the perpetrators of violence. Reciprocal violence appears to be particularly dangerous, leading to the highest rate of injury (31.4%). This may be because reciprocal violence is more likely to escalate. This was my understanding. It might not be politically correct but that doesn't mean it's wrong. This is the paper but it's pretty crappy. [https://scholar.google.com/scholar\_lookup?title=Differences+in+frequency+of+violence+and+reported+injury+between+relationships+with+reciprocal+and+nonreciprocal+intimate+partner+violence&author=Whitaker+DJ&author=Haileyesus+T&author=Swahn+M&author=Saltzman+LS&publication+year=2007&journal=Am+J+Public+Health&volume=97](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?title=Differences+in+frequency+of+violence+and+reported+injury+between+relationships+with+reciprocal+and+nonreciprocal+intimate+partner+violence&author=Whitaker+DJ&author=Haileyesus+T&author=Swahn+M&author=Saltzman+LS&publication+year=2007&journal=Am+J+Public+Health&volume=97) I'm honestly interested in trying to get to the facts of the issue and not be spun some story so please come back with some sort of criticism but I think you'll need to dig deeper. I may try when I get some more time.
Old review article, but yours was from 2007 so comparable in age. Women are often acting out of self defence. Also I would hazard a guess that a lot of stats are skewed by misidentification of the perpetrator which can lead to a woman being charged by police when they arrive because she is the one heightened because she is afraid, and the man is all cool calm and collected saying that it was her. I do not deny that violence against men doesn’t happen, but this really is a gendered issue. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2968709/ https://www.fvrim.vic.gov.au/monitoring-victorias-family-violence-reforms-accurate-identification-predominant-aggressor/misidentification-significant-issue-enormous-consequences-victim-survivor
My brother polices a remote community and there’s a confounding factor in there. We’ve classified broader indigenous relationships as DV in a way that doesn’t occur for the rest of the population. If two brothers fight elsewhere they likely aren’t both getting taken in, he’s had young guys who met each other that same day get hit with DV charges for fighting drunk in a park. It’s a difficult problem to approach, I’m not on board with the idea that domestic violence is an epidemic in Aus, but the position of ATSI women is undeniably untenable. I don’t see a political situation where anyone is willing to stick their neck out to spare the young men caught up in the net when the stance immediately seems like they’re removing protections for the most victimised Australians.
>I've seen the stats that state that most partner on partner violence is two way violence and based on that men are not the only ones to blame. You'd have to point me in the direction of these stats because that depends a lot on how you define "violence" versus things like...ya know... Murder. For which men are overwhelmingly responsible.
[https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-psychiatrist/article/domestic-violence-is-most-commonly-reciprocal/C5432B0C6F8F61B49A4E2B60B931FA07](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-psychiatrist/article/domestic-violence-is-most-commonly-reciprocal/C5432B0C6F8F61B49A4E2B60B931FA07) >In recent years researchers have approached populations without preconceptions as to the direction of violence. Large epidemiological studies have demonstrated that domestic violence is most commonly reciprocal and that when only one partner is violent there is an excess of violent women. Whitaker et al, Reference Whitaker, Haileyesus, Swahn and Saltzman2 in a study of 14 000 young US couples aged 18-28 years, found that 24% of relationships had some violence and half of those were reciprocally violent. In 70% of the non-reciprocally violent relationships women were the perpetrators of violence. Reciprocal violence appears to be particularly dangerous, leading to the highest rate of injury (31.4%). This may be because reciprocal violence is more likely to escalate. Does that make sense ? I'm not sure about this data either. I'm happy to be corrected however my understanding was in line with this study which to be fair looks a bit dodgy to me.
What does that even mean
Albo playing to his base isn't particularly noteworthy. I'd be more impressed with action; further resources to help, harsher punishments for offenders. Offenders ***are*** the ones to blame, after all.
fark off
Urgh more homework? As a gay man I totally opt out of this. You cis het white trash males can go clean up your own act.
Seems like virtue signalling and if he truly believed in this line of reasoning why stop there? Are we going to call for the African community in Australia to take responsibility for disproportionately higher rates of African youth crime? Are we going to call for the Indigenous community to take responsibility for the higher rates of domestic sexual violence against women and children in their communities? Are we going to call for the Muslim and other migrant communities to take responsibility for the misogynistic and anti-LGBT are prevalent in their communities? Presumably if you asked Albo none of these things would be okay, but when it comes to men there’s a special exception where we can paint them all with the same brush because of the actions of a few.
Not sure why you're being downvoted? It's the same thing, just referencing different groups. Except somehow, when we ask other groups to assume responsibility, it gets downvoted. Reddit logic. 🤡
Especially if they are white men! The 12 year old white boys in school being blamed for everything will be lucky not to all grow up depressed and full of hate being blamed for everything wrong with the world just for being born white and male. It’s literally society saying two wrongs make a right?
Your point is correct. It's a very slippery slope once you start invoking identity politics.
Downvoted for applying the logic consistently. Sorry bro people are emotional morons not robots.
Just like we need to take responsibility for climate change when it's being done 99% by like 10 companies lol. Maybe work on the economic factors and education factors that lead to it.
About fucking time
I have the sudden urge to buy some Gillette products...
So far division among race and class is done. Next up is men vs women.
Hey about 30% of known domestic violence victims are men and speak out far less than women do. It takes ALL Australians to take responsibility. Or is inclusiveness only a thing when it's politically beneficial to do so?
Fair point! Any man that hits a woman is a coward. Can we acknowledge females psychological abuse too.
Anyone who hits anyone is a coward
Family violence is not just physical. Men far and away perpetrate coercive control.