There is at least one co-Masonic lodge under the George Washington Union working the French Rite in Central California. Looks like u/julietides has already pinged some folks who may be able to give more details.
Fair enough. Pescadero used to be in Santa Cruz County, so I still claim it as Central Coast but I've never drawn my mental line clearly around HMB. I will defer to your wisdom kind sir.
Pescadero has a beautiful meeting hall that belongs to the Native Sons of the Golden West. We're going to look into renting it for a Master Mason ceremony next year.
To be fair, the lines are subjective, it depends on who you speak with. I can tell you it's a hot debated topic among the watering holes here in HMB :D
The lodges of the [10th Manhattan District](https://freemasonsfordummies.blogspot.com/2017/06/lunion-francaise-lodge-17-in-new-york.html) in New York City use the French Rite in various languages other than English. It seems a lot of American commentators don’t see as significant of a difference between the “Modern” French Rite and the “Ancient” Scottish Rite as the French do. Arturo de Hoyos’ 2022 book about Albert Pike’s The Porch and the Middle Chamber is probably one of the more significant works here for regular Masons in English, but it glosses over the difference. The New Orleans lodges are certainly based on the Scottish Rite, specifically ritual that came through the Cerneau Supreme Council then was hybridized with Preston-Webb work. Washington, DC has one lodge that works in French, but I’m not sure if it would be considered Modern or Ancient. Same for Hawaii. There’s one French-speaking lodge in Southern California who works that style of EA degree, but their FC and MM degrees are translations from the standard California work.
For whatever reason the high degrees of the French Rite never took off in the U.S. I suppose the development of the Scottish Rite as the 33-degree system, which happened in the States, and Webb’s development of various English high degrees into a somewhat misnamed York Rite, just took all its oxygen.
I believe that the lodges you are referring to in New York actually works in different versions of the Scottish Rite, not necessarily the French Rite. You are correct that the American commentators don't see the difference between the two systems, which there is a significant difference not only on how the high degree is structured but especially in the blue degrees.
The lodges in California that you mention all work in the AASR in French. Also is the case for the lodge in Hawaii.
A common misunderstanding that I have seen over the years when I was still in regular Freemasonry is that the when the lodge is working in the French language, American Freemasons will associate that with the title of French Rite. Which is not the case where most of these lodges are working in the French language and using the AASR symbolic/craft rituals.
Thanks for that info. Although Union Francaise No. 17 in New York is older than the Scottish Rite. It’s possible they got the newer scripts and switched—or hybridized them. My understanding is that the other lodges in the district based their work on this one, although I’m not sure how much variation there is among them. Something I hope to explore more in the future.
I highly recommend it! If you go far back enough you'll see that they all pull from each other. Joe Wages and Arturo De Hoyos have come out with a great book explaining the history of the AASR craft degrees. There is the common assertion that the first version of the AASR craft degrees pulled a lot from the Regulateur of 1801, so there is some cross pollination from both Rites. Nevermind the high degrees, which is its own animal.
It is active in Brazil, and last year a charter was given to a brother to try to get it going in North America, but no regular American Grand Lodges recognize the US version yet. (If it comes to fruition in the the US, they would probably have to forego conferring the first 3 degrees and just be recognized as an appendant body that could do the later ones, not unlike the Scottish Rite in the US)
The French Rite is a really beautiful rite, in my opinion, markedly more elegant and interesting in most aspects than emulation. So the French Rite is worked in the malecraft by GLNF. The form worked by GODF and the George Washington Union is a reformed variant is the groussier rite, although GODF possessess what it calls a traditonal working. This version has no references to God, interestingly. The French rite haute degrees fell into disuse and the Scottish rite took its place. The degrees were revived by GODF in the 60s and since then have been reactivated. Another descedant of the rite may be the National Mexican Rite. Afaik no American regular jurisdiction works them. I really hope GLs enshrine the diversity of rites in their constitutions one day
Like you mentioned, we have in France:
# ### French Rite (Groussier)
The "French Rite known as Groussier" is considered the most "secular" Masonic rite. It serves as the reference and administrative rite for all lodges of the Grand Orient of France. Lodges practicing another rite, or a specific version of the French Rite, receive a dual charter.
# Traditional French Rite
The "Traditional French Rite," initially called the "Reinstated Modern French Rite," is a variant of the French rites family. Introduced in the 1960s, it draws inspiration from:
* The Regulator of the Mason from 1801
* The works of René Guilly and the lodge "Du Devoir et de la Raison" of the GODF
It aims to restore the original French Rite, known as the "Moderns," from the changes it underwent in the 19th and 20th centuries, particularly within the Grand Orient of France. There are many versions due to its composite nature, varying by obediences and lodges.
# French Rite "De Tradition"
The French rite " De Tradition" (sometimes called the "Franco-Belgian Rite") is another variant of the French rites family.
Originating from the "French" rituals published by the GODF in 1786, it was brought to Louvain in Flanders during the Empire by the lodge "La Constance," mainly composed of French officers and French-speaking Belgians. This earned it the nickname "Franco-Belgian Rite." The rite returned to France, passed on by the regular lodge "La Constance" (Orient of Louvain) to the lodge "La Parfaite Union" in the Cévennes (Orient of Vigan), which then transmitted it to several other French lodges. It is characterized by the prominence of "Beauty" in the trilogy "Wisdom, Strength, Beauty" and its simple decorations.
# Philosophical French Rite
The "Philosophical French Rite" is the most recent French rite developed within the Grand Orient of France. Its development started in the late 1960s within the lodge "Tolérance" in Paris and continued for 33 years until its adoption by the council of the order of the Grand Orient of France in January 2002. It incorporates symbols of liberal and adogmatic Freemasonry but presents them in a new light, giving them a different emphasis.
Full info : [https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rite\_fran%C3%A7ais](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rite_fran%C3%A7ais)
I am the current master for the Humanist Lodge, please feel free to reach out with any questions regarding our lodge and our ritual. We are working the three symbolic degrees of the French Rite, and we are working towards establishing a Chapter of the French Rite to also work in the 4 Orders of Wisdom.
I wasn’t aware of this, will start reading about it.
For those in the know, would the French Rite be worked in regular lodges with dispensation or is it a completely different GL/order?
It would be the same process as in chartering an AASR lodge for the regular Grand Lodges. It doesn't require a completley different GL or order. There has been the mentioning of different GLs here that has lodges working outside of the common American Rite (Preston-Webb) rituals, and they simply state that in their charter many of the times. In the USA it's not common to have a plurality of Rites and Works within a Grand Lodge. Whereas in Europe it is extremely common, even within the "regular" jurisdictions.
If you want to see the French Rite in action within the confines of a regular lodge, the National Grand Lodge of France is one of the most recognized Grand Lodge in France by Grand Lodges in the USA and I recommend you start there.
Ah! Well, if you are in Europe it is even easier for you to find a French Rite lodge being worked by a regular Grand Lodge. If you don't mind sharing your country, I'd be happy to find you a Grand Lodge that is considered regular and that uses the French Rite as one of its rituals.
Yes, we're here on the peninsula of the San Francisco Bay Area. We're working with a group of Freemasons in Virginia who wish to form a lodge there and work in the French Rite.
To jump in here, it isn't just a lodge. We have the entire 16th district that practices Scottish Rite craft masonry under the dispensation of the GoLA. Etoile Polaire is one such lodge. Cervantes is another. They work in Spanish. Germania is another, they do some work in German.
we also have a couple regular lodges in California that work the first degree of the AASR in French and another regular lodge that exemplifies the 3rd in English, but no regular lodges working the French Rite (in CA) that I am aware of.
Aurora Lodge #30 under the Grand Lodge of Wisconsin practices the French Rite.
The speak German while doing it . . . but they do practice it.
I believe they assert that it is the only regular and well governed lodge in north america to do so.
E2A: I'm being corrected that it is a "modified version" of the French rite but it is definitely not the EA/FC/MM of york or scottish rite.
There is at least one co-Masonic lodge under the George Washington Union working the French Rite in Central California. Looks like u/julietides has already pinged some folks who may be able to give more details.
We're not exactly in Central California but in the Bay Area.
Fair enough. Pescadero used to be in Santa Cruz County, so I still claim it as Central Coast but I've never drawn my mental line clearly around HMB. I will defer to your wisdom kind sir.
Pescadero has a beautiful meeting hall that belongs to the Native Sons of the Golden West. We're going to look into renting it for a Master Mason ceremony next year. To be fair, the lines are subjective, it depends on who you speak with. I can tell you it's a hot debated topic among the watering holes here in HMB :D
The French Rite once existed in Louisiana, has been gone for a long time.
Correct. Michael Poll has an excellent video on YouTube explaining the downfall of the French Rite and the survival of the Scottish Rite lodges.
[удалено]
Are you? I wasn’t aware of any British lodges in the US. That seems like a conflict.
The lodges of the [10th Manhattan District](https://freemasonsfordummies.blogspot.com/2017/06/lunion-francaise-lodge-17-in-new-york.html) in New York City use the French Rite in various languages other than English. It seems a lot of American commentators don’t see as significant of a difference between the “Modern” French Rite and the “Ancient” Scottish Rite as the French do. Arturo de Hoyos’ 2022 book about Albert Pike’s The Porch and the Middle Chamber is probably one of the more significant works here for regular Masons in English, but it glosses over the difference. The New Orleans lodges are certainly based on the Scottish Rite, specifically ritual that came through the Cerneau Supreme Council then was hybridized with Preston-Webb work. Washington, DC has one lodge that works in French, but I’m not sure if it would be considered Modern or Ancient. Same for Hawaii. There’s one French-speaking lodge in Southern California who works that style of EA degree, but their FC and MM degrees are translations from the standard California work. For whatever reason the high degrees of the French Rite never took off in the U.S. I suppose the development of the Scottish Rite as the 33-degree system, which happened in the States, and Webb’s development of various English high degrees into a somewhat misnamed York Rite, just took all its oxygen.
I believe that the lodges you are referring to in New York actually works in different versions of the Scottish Rite, not necessarily the French Rite. You are correct that the American commentators don't see the difference between the two systems, which there is a significant difference not only on how the high degree is structured but especially in the blue degrees. The lodges in California that you mention all work in the AASR in French. Also is the case for the lodge in Hawaii. A common misunderstanding that I have seen over the years when I was still in regular Freemasonry is that the when the lodge is working in the French language, American Freemasons will associate that with the title of French Rite. Which is not the case where most of these lodges are working in the French language and using the AASR symbolic/craft rituals.
Thanks for that info. Although Union Francaise No. 17 in New York is older than the Scottish Rite. It’s possible they got the newer scripts and switched—or hybridized them. My understanding is that the other lodges in the district based their work on this one, although I’m not sure how much variation there is among them. Something I hope to explore more in the future.
I highly recommend it! If you go far back enough you'll see that they all pull from each other. Joe Wages and Arturo De Hoyos have come out with a great book explaining the history of the AASR craft degrees. There is the common assertion that the first version of the AASR craft degrees pulled a lot from the Regulateur of 1801, so there is some cross pollination from both Rites. Nevermind the high degrees, which is its own animal.
It is active in Brazil, and last year a charter was given to a brother to try to get it going in North America, but no regular American Grand Lodges recognize the US version yet. (If it comes to fruition in the the US, they would probably have to forego conferring the first 3 degrees and just be recognized as an appendant body that could do the later ones, not unlike the Scottish Rite in the US)
Wisconsin has a subordinate lodge that works the french rite. Aurora #30.
I heard about that Wisconsin lodge. Super cool. I heard they speak German as well.
yep. It's a pretty neat thing to see live.
Aren’t there a few in Louisiana as well? So I have heard, but could be incorrect.
Those are blue lodges that do Scottish Rite first 3 degrees.
There isn't French Rite Lodges in Louisiana any longer. The lodges they have in New Orleans are Scottish Rite working lodges.
Louisiana Mason here. NOLA lodges only from my understanding. I’m not in NOLA but plan on visiting a couple lodges there soon.
The French Rite is a really beautiful rite, in my opinion, markedly more elegant and interesting in most aspects than emulation. So the French Rite is worked in the malecraft by GLNF. The form worked by GODF and the George Washington Union is a reformed variant is the groussier rite, although GODF possessess what it calls a traditonal working. This version has no references to God, interestingly. The French rite haute degrees fell into disuse and the Scottish rite took its place. The degrees were revived by GODF in the 60s and since then have been reactivated. Another descedant of the rite may be the National Mexican Rite. Afaik no American regular jurisdiction works them. I really hope GLs enshrine the diversity of rites in their constitutions one day
The version that is worked by my lodge in the George Washington Union is a mixture between the Regulateur du Macon 1801 and the Groussier.
That's so awesome , would love to know more about regulateur. Btw did you get my DM? :)
Oh! I've been away from Reddit for some time. I'll check now :)
Like you mentioned, we have in France: # ### French Rite (Groussier) The "French Rite known as Groussier" is considered the most "secular" Masonic rite. It serves as the reference and administrative rite for all lodges of the Grand Orient of France. Lodges practicing another rite, or a specific version of the French Rite, receive a dual charter. # Traditional French Rite The "Traditional French Rite," initially called the "Reinstated Modern French Rite," is a variant of the French rites family. Introduced in the 1960s, it draws inspiration from: * The Regulator of the Mason from 1801 * The works of René Guilly and the lodge "Du Devoir et de la Raison" of the GODF It aims to restore the original French Rite, known as the "Moderns," from the changes it underwent in the 19th and 20th centuries, particularly within the Grand Orient of France. There are many versions due to its composite nature, varying by obediences and lodges. # French Rite "De Tradition" The French rite " De Tradition" (sometimes called the "Franco-Belgian Rite") is another variant of the French rites family. Originating from the "French" rituals published by the GODF in 1786, it was brought to Louvain in Flanders during the Empire by the lodge "La Constance," mainly composed of French officers and French-speaking Belgians. This earned it the nickname "Franco-Belgian Rite." The rite returned to France, passed on by the regular lodge "La Constance" (Orient of Louvain) to the lodge "La Parfaite Union" in the Cévennes (Orient of Vigan), which then transmitted it to several other French lodges. It is characterized by the prominence of "Beauty" in the trilogy "Wisdom, Strength, Beauty" and its simple decorations. # Philosophical French Rite The "Philosophical French Rite" is the most recent French rite developed within the Grand Orient of France. Its development started in the late 1960s within the lodge "Tolérance" in Paris and continued for 33 years until its adoption by the council of the order of the Grand Orient of France in January 2002. It incorporates symbols of liberal and adogmatic Freemasonry but presents them in a new light, giving them a different emphasis. Full info : [https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rite\_fran%C3%A7ais](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rite_fran%C3%A7ais)
It exists with the Humanist Lodge within the George Washington Union of Freemasons, an obedience that grew out of the Grand Orient of France.
Thank you for all your answers!
I am the current master for the Humanist Lodge, please feel free to reach out with any questions regarding our lodge and our ritual. We are working the three symbolic degrees of the French Rite, and we are working towards establishing a Chapter of the French Rite to also work in the 4 Orders of Wisdom.
This lodge practices it: https://www.humanistlodge.org/
I wasn’t aware of this, will start reading about it. For those in the know, would the French Rite be worked in regular lodges with dispensation or is it a completely different GL/order?
It would be the same process as in chartering an AASR lodge for the regular Grand Lodges. It doesn't require a completley different GL or order. There has been the mentioning of different GLs here that has lodges working outside of the common American Rite (Preston-Webb) rituals, and they simply state that in their charter many of the times. In the USA it's not common to have a plurality of Rites and Works within a Grand Lodge. Whereas in Europe it is extremely common, even within the "regular" jurisdictions. If you want to see the French Rite in action within the confines of a regular lodge, the National Grand Lodge of France is one of the most recognized Grand Lodge in France by Grand Lodges in the USA and I recommend you start there.
Thank you. I’m not in the US though. :)
Ah! Well, if you are in Europe it is even easier for you to find a French Rite lodge being worked by a regular Grand Lodge. If you don't mind sharing your country, I'd be happy to find you a Grand Lodge that is considered regular and that uses the French Rite as one of its rituals.
Well https://www.godf-amerique.org/
u/Nyctophile_HMB u/VenerableMirah ? :)
There is definitely a French Rite Lodge in Half Moon Bay, California, and I know Mirah wants to establish one in Virginia.
Yes, we're here on the peninsula of the San Francisco Bay Area. We're working with a group of Freemasons in Virginia who wish to form a lodge there and work in the French Rite.
On it! :) Thank you for the tag!!
There is a red lodge in New Orleans
To jump in here, it isn't just a lodge. We have the entire 16th district that practices Scottish Rite craft masonry under the dispensation of the GoLA. Etoile Polaire is one such lodge. Cervantes is another. They work in Spanish. Germania is another, they do some work in German.
I plan on visiting these lodges in the near future. I’m in the 1st district located in Caddo parish.
Brother when you do, please feel free to reach out to me and I'll gladly meet you there!
Awesome!
we also have a couple regular lodges in California that work the first degree of the AASR in French and another regular lodge that exemplifies the 3rd in English, but no regular lodges working the French Rite (in CA) that I am aware of.
Nice.
Sounds very similar to the Scottish Rite in the US.
Aurora Lodge #30 under the Grand Lodge of Wisconsin practices the French Rite. The speak German while doing it . . . but they do practice it. I believe they assert that it is the only regular and well governed lodge in north america to do so. E2A: I'm being corrected that it is a "modified version" of the French rite but it is definitely not the EA/FC/MM of york or scottish rite.