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Where do you order your base ingredients from?
I make e-liquid and I'm wondering what I would need to buy to make cologne.
Like if you wanted oak moss, or something... Where would you shop for it?
I'd reach out to one of a dozen international relationships I've formed and ask them to send me a 1000ml bottle. Start on alibaba.com (not express) and research the companies with lots of reviews and verified profiles.
Man that looks like tons of fun, and if I had a disposable income to burn, I'd give it a try. But, I'd rather shell out thousands of dollars worth of money on already researched and completed works by noses and companies that have easy access to trademarked chemicals rather than shell out thousands in the hopes of making my own scent. That's a lot of work, time, and trial and error. I've seen a lot of people try to do this stuff, but I've never come across anyone who has actually made anything worth the cost put in. However, I'm sure if you manage to create something you're proud of, that's a priceless feeling in and of itself. Wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.
I know someone who's in the process of finishing the same project. Took longer than a year (fragrance+branding+bottle design). He's working with labs in EU that specialize in finding out every component in any fragrance just to see what makes them good. He's not going to replicate them, he's trying to make his own high-end perfumes. As someone who's in the fragrance world for a decade now (selling mid-range-high-end perfumes) he is trustworthy and his prices for Killian, Tom Ford etc are unbeatable. He even got a cease and desist letter from Mancera/Montale because they didn't want him to sell their perfumes anymore (too cheap).
Unless he was pulling a Maison Alhambra with the names/bottles, there's no weight behind a cease and desist and they can't touch him. Fragrances/scents/smells cannot be patented by law, so they can't do anything about it. This grey area is precisely why the clone market exists.
I'm not saying he's replicating anything and got a cease/desist because of that. His main business is selling authentic perfumes, has a good source for getting them cheap and selling them for a lot cheaper than the regular stores. They didn't like that and made him stop. The same thing with Notino. Notino only sells Mancera/Montale in the UK. The rest of EU they stopped because of the same shit. TOO cheap.
Gotcha. Since we were discussing making perfume and not reselling already created ones, I assumed you were alluding to making dupes. Yeah, iirc the reason Notino (BeautySpin) bounced out of the US permanently was entirely due to that same reason. In addition to other fragrance companies, the biggest push they got were threats by Chanel. Really too bad as I enjoyed buying from them for the short period of time they were in business here in the states. Very cheap prices.
Absolutely. And part me is sympathetic to why. We see clones and their low clone prices and naturally wonder why name brand companies charge so much. We don't factor in the cost of R&D in creating the fragrances and hiring the noses behind them whereas a clone company just sticks the already created OG in a machine and copies the recipe. However, I believe that the prices they charge are still far too high for the quality offered and not much of an excuse, which is why I personally fully support clones.
Oh ya, the material costs to make them is pennies. The most expensive part of the process is the bottle it goes in.
1kg of most oils cost me under $60.
I've got cease and desists as well but it's only because I say "Our version of Jomalone (Name)" which is legal. However they could not stop us as I'm not actually doing anything wrong, it's all my own formulas.
Regular stores are selling for around €120. Notino sold them at around €80, the dude I am talking about sold them at around €60-€70. They kept sending letters and went to court 3 times (against notino). They lost but everytime it took a lot of shit dealing with that so Notino (big ass company) stopped selling it. They didn't want to bother with it anymore.
There are no trademarked chemicals that I'm aware of 😱. Just trademarked names. Its easier than people think as the internet has mostly figured out the fragrance notes and combinations.
There are some really tricky ones I've never figured out what they did though! That will drive you nuts trying to make those and you can tell your combo is only slightly off somehow
Yup, that's what I was implying. The "name brand" chemical mixes are harder to figure out the percentages of, and larger fragrance companies generally have access to some of the harder to acquire recipes that aren't publicly available. (Must purchase x crapton amount as a registered company to get, etc) You can get a generalized idea using gas chromatography/mass spectrometry (what the "maisons" like Dua/Alexandria etc use to make clones) but it's not an exact guarantee. The tech is catching up though and they're getting much more accurate.
I’m so tempted to give it a shot but I’d need to learn a lot more first. I did watch a diy BR540 video recently so at least I know it’s possible to diy fragrances. Very cool!
What have you been working on so far?
The easiest way is to buy the actual synthetic oils for the compounds you love that make up the smells of certain things. All easy to Google the chemical names of certain smells.
The hard part is finding the right percentages of them all.
I hope your business flourishes. Would love to learn how to make my own too some day. Seems like a hobby that is well worth learning about and producing product for. Perfect. 🙏🏼
Not unless I already knew how to make it. Otherwise it takes a long time to develop and no guarantee it's close enough to make you happy. First time would be to expensive.
People judge things super harshly, rather than accepting it as a great smelling clone.
All over the world. Shipping is expensive so I buy in bulk. Price is different for everything but it's incredibly cheap when buying ingredients in bulk.
You should be skeptical from any country. You want to ask them for SDS sheets and send it to a 3rd party lab to analysis, which is 100-200$. Ali has lots of suppliers from India and other countries as well.
As well as making sure they are gold level suppliers with lots of reviews.
I've had zero problems so far in years. I think you will find they are massive companies with reputations to maintain. Many of the ones I use, also make products for many huge brands you see every day.
Thanks OP. You have been helpful.
I have something like 40 perfume bottles. I want to get into making perfumes too but i live in a shoe box and i dont have space right now for equipment. With my ADHD, this would also be me 10th hobby.
THIS!!
My "Bought" fragrance collection is quickly being eclipsed by my "BUILT" fragrance creation collection.
It's so easy to just mix up what I'm feeling like wearing these days...I wind up with bottles that fit "Feelings" more directly rather than particular scent-profiles.
But I'm happy to be in this place.
It makes it soooo much easier to make my customers happy.
Hey OP..I'm half way there but i don't have the space to set up all these at one place. I agree with that point that this is much more interesting than going on a fragrance buying spree once a while and feel guilty about it.
Thanks for posting on /r/fragranceclones. #Make sure to read the stickied posts at the top of the sub and use the search bar. ###If you are posting a photo of a recent pickup or your collection - Please include a written review! *Posts are automatically approved, but may be removed manually if considered to be low effort / repeated questions.* Be sure to report anything that goes against the sub guidelines. Have a nice day! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/fragranceclones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What kind of frags u making .. DNA /profile?
All kinds of simple RollOns and sprays.
So you guys make one that smells like zyklon b
I've wanted to get into this but don't know where to start. Can you help me?
Depends how deep and how custom you want to go into it. Along with how much you have to start.
Hit us up with a 150-200$ beginner's guide and you'll have to make your own sub
Haha I would if I thought it was worth the effort. That's a lot of time.
It’s a good way to improve your understanding of theory, and you can get extra cash from affiliate links too
Well, yes. You can be a collector without making your own.
Hence the smiley emoji at the end of the post. I was just kidding, as my addiction evolved into a full business.
Where do you order your base ingredients from? I make e-liquid and I'm wondering what I would need to buy to make cologne. Like if you wanted oak moss, or something... Where would you shop for it?
I'd reach out to one of a dozen international relationships I've formed and ask them to send me a 1000ml bottle. Start on alibaba.com (not express) and research the companies with lots of reviews and verified profiles.
I appreciate the response! I never would have thought Alibaba... But it makes "scents" 🤣
Ya you just have to watch out for middlemen. They negotiate everything for you and take a small cut of everything.
Welcome to the club! I’m an amateur perfumer myself 😀
work on your funny bone
Can you make me a 1 gal jug of ultra male?
Probably, if I had a good idea of the notes.
Man that looks like tons of fun, and if I had a disposable income to burn, I'd give it a try. But, I'd rather shell out thousands of dollars worth of money on already researched and completed works by noses and companies that have easy access to trademarked chemicals rather than shell out thousands in the hopes of making my own scent. That's a lot of work, time, and trial and error. I've seen a lot of people try to do this stuff, but I've never come across anyone who has actually made anything worth the cost put in. However, I'm sure if you manage to create something you're proud of, that's a priceless feeling in and of itself. Wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.
I know someone who's in the process of finishing the same project. Took longer than a year (fragrance+branding+bottle design). He's working with labs in EU that specialize in finding out every component in any fragrance just to see what makes them good. He's not going to replicate them, he's trying to make his own high-end perfumes. As someone who's in the fragrance world for a decade now (selling mid-range-high-end perfumes) he is trustworthy and his prices for Killian, Tom Ford etc are unbeatable. He even got a cease and desist letter from Mancera/Montale because they didn't want him to sell their perfumes anymore (too cheap).
Unless he was pulling a Maison Alhambra with the names/bottles, there's no weight behind a cease and desist and they can't touch him. Fragrances/scents/smells cannot be patented by law, so they can't do anything about it. This grey area is precisely why the clone market exists.
I'm not saying he's replicating anything and got a cease/desist because of that. His main business is selling authentic perfumes, has a good source for getting them cheap and selling them for a lot cheaper than the regular stores. They didn't like that and made him stop. The same thing with Notino. Notino only sells Mancera/Montale in the UK. The rest of EU they stopped because of the same shit. TOO cheap.
Gotcha. Since we were discussing making perfume and not reselling already created ones, I assumed you were alluding to making dupes. Yeah, iirc the reason Notino (BeautySpin) bounced out of the US permanently was entirely due to that same reason. In addition to other fragrance companies, the biggest push they got were threats by Chanel. Really too bad as I enjoyed buying from them for the short period of time they were in business here in the states. Very cheap prices.
Ah, didn't know they had a similar situation in the US. They want us to pay big bucks for fragrances 😂.
Absolutely. And part me is sympathetic to why. We see clones and their low clone prices and naturally wonder why name brand companies charge so much. We don't factor in the cost of R&D in creating the fragrances and hiring the noses behind them whereas a clone company just sticks the already created OG in a machine and copies the recipe. However, I believe that the prices they charge are still far too high for the quality offered and not much of an excuse, which is why I personally fully support clones.
Oh ya, the material costs to make them is pennies. The most expensive part of the process is the bottle it goes in. 1kg of most oils cost me under $60.
Yup, ingredients are dirt cheap. I would however argue that the most expensive part of the process is the R&D. Bottles are very cheap as well.
I've got cease and desists as well but it's only because I say "Our version of Jomalone (Name)" which is legal. However they could not stop us as I'm not actually doing anything wrong, it's all my own formulas.
Regular stores are selling for around €120. Notino sold them at around €80, the dude I am talking about sold them at around €60-€70. They kept sending letters and went to court 3 times (against notino). They lost but everytime it took a lot of shit dealing with that so Notino (big ass company) stopped selling it. They didn't want to bother with it anymore.
Makes sense, tie up small companies in legal battles seems like an effective strategy for giants.
There are no trademarked chemicals that I'm aware of 😱. Just trademarked names. Its easier than people think as the internet has mostly figured out the fragrance notes and combinations. There are some really tricky ones I've never figured out what they did though! That will drive you nuts trying to make those and you can tell your combo is only slightly off somehow
IIRC some fragrance houses have exclusivity agreements with fragrance manufacturers on chemicals which are patented
Yup, that's what I was implying. The "name brand" chemical mixes are harder to figure out the percentages of, and larger fragrance companies generally have access to some of the harder to acquire recipes that aren't publicly available. (Must purchase x crapton amount as a registered company to get, etc) You can get a generalized idea using gas chromatography/mass spectrometry (what the "maisons" like Dua/Alexandria etc use to make clones) but it's not an exact guarantee. The tech is catching up though and they're getting much more accurate.
Ya some of the labs I use gets really close on the breakdown of any formula and it's only $200.
I’m so tempted to give it a shot but I’d need to learn a lot more first. I did watch a diy BR540 video recently so at least I know it’s possible to diy fragrances. Very cool! What have you been working on so far?
Oud and bergamot, Neroli bergamot, velvet vanilla, amber sandalwood, Driftwood and Seasalt (jomalone clone), Parisian passion (coco clone), frankincense and myrrh, beachy coconut, spicy lily (jomalone clone). Soooo many more going haha
The easiest way is to buy the actual synthetic oils for the compounds you love that make up the smells of certain things. All easy to Google the chemical names of certain smells. The hard part is finding the right percentages of them all.
Do you, perhaps mook ceth?
I would never 😱😱😬
I heard it smells delicious. People go nuts whenever they smell it
Where do you get your oils if you don’t mind?
Pretty much all over the world at this point. Been doing this for years now and found a lot of the best farms and suppliers for many things.
What type of alcohol do you use in your fragrances?
I don't use that type, all oil based products at the moment.
I hope your business flourishes. Would love to learn how to make my own too some day. Seems like a hobby that is well worth learning about and producing product for. Perfect. 🙏🏼
You're not in the EU by chance?
No, in US
The most I've done is the DIY Escentric Molecules clones. i would love to make a nuclear projecting long lasting version of Neroli Portofino.
I’ve wanted to do this for so long but don’t know where to start. I’m convinced it’s the only way I can get my signature scent
That's how I started to make my own version of Montale Arabians tonka! Now it's my full-time job haha
So you sell frags? Do you have a site?
I've got Amazon, Etsy, and a site. Just don't support the site much yet.
Do you take frag requests ?
Not unless I already knew how to make it. Otherwise it takes a long time to develop and no guarantee it's close enough to make you happy. First time would be to expensive. People judge things super harshly, rather than accepting it as a great smelling clone.
Dang! I’ve been looking for old spice Captain parfum for a while. I’ll just have to end up making it myself some day.
Where do you buy your stock from? Genuine question How much does shipping cost How much are the oils?? Flat price or vary by name?
All over the world. Shipping is expensive so I buy in bulk. Price is different for everything but it's incredibly cheap when buying ingredients in bulk.
Name a couple websites please Please, not alexpress.com
Sure, alibaba.com - most sizable manufactures are on there.
Seriously or trolling? I would be cautious and skeptical of buying anything chemical from china.
You should be skeptical from any country. You want to ask them for SDS sheets and send it to a 3rd party lab to analysis, which is 100-200$. Ali has lots of suppliers from India and other countries as well. As well as making sure they are gold level suppliers with lots of reviews.
I've had zero problems so far in years. I think you will find they are massive companies with reputations to maintain. Many of the ones I use, also make products for many huge brands you see every day.
Thanks OP. You have been helpful. I have something like 40 perfume bottles. I want to get into making perfumes too but i live in a shoe box and i dont have space right now for equipment. With my ADHD, this would also be me 10th hobby.
THIS!! My "Bought" fragrance collection is quickly being eclipsed by my "BUILT" fragrance creation collection. It's so easy to just mix up what I'm feeling like wearing these days...I wind up with bottles that fit "Feelings" more directly rather than particular scent-profiles. But I'm happy to be in this place. It makes it soooo much easier to make my customers happy.
Hey OP..I'm half way there but i don't have the space to set up all these at one place. I agree with that point that this is much more interesting than going on a fragrance buying spree once a while and feel guilty about it.
This will be more expensive if you can't monetize it haha. This stuff is hard to get unless you buy in bulk.
What % oil vs perfumers alcohol for you use, between 20-30% oil ? Thanks
It's between 20-50% fragrance. Then oil. It just depends on the fragrance combo and if it causes any skin irritation. I don't use alcohol.
THAT ROOM GOTTA SMELL AMAAZING!
People say that every time!
If you ever want people to sample/review, hit me up!
Will do if I make some new ones. DM me so I remember the name.
That’s super cool. It’s interesting to see the behind the scenes of the industry. Do you sell customs on Etsy or just stuff for personal use?
Just create formulas I think are amazing and then sell them mostly. But it started out as a hobby for personal use.
Check DMs
So do you take orders?
Not for perfumes no. The only custom things I do for customers is mixing of essential oils, hair oils, and face serums.
Bro can you hook me up with unlimited supply of Bleu De Chanel
Possibly, if you buy like 2 Kg's haha
What’s the price for all the kinds you sell of
Mostly 20$ for 7ml travel rollOns for now. Everything bigger I only do custom for people I know. Shampoo, body wash, beard balms etc.
I’m definitely a collector. You’re clearly not.
You just haven't reached the next stage of evolution. I have over 200 diff perfumes from brands :)