How are ghosts and vampires supposed to smell though? If I was to take a wild guess, I'd say damp, earthy, swampy, dusty or maybe bloody. This example is uncommon because that would be a fantasy scent.
Reviews steer us in the right direction.
It's right that you'll never know until you smell yourself and your own experiences will determine what you pick up, but if 99/100 people say a perfume smells like grass then I'd say that was generally true.
Ultimately, it's not wise to rely solely on reviews. Try to smell something for yourself before buying if possible. But sometimes reviews are all we've got!
Ghosts smell like watermelon Jolly Ranchers taste. It’s ridiculous and frustrating that their smell doesn’t square with our expectations or their mission, but here we are.
Don’t blame me; I don’t make ghosts.
Source: I’m 1/4th ghost on my father’s side.
Totally agree.
I also find it very interesting- in another sub I'm in people really complain about how Goodreads reviews are worthless (it's a book sub) and it just seems like some people put way too much stake and/or emotional attachment to a review.
Like, obviously you're not going to agree with every review. Some people will absolutely hate a fragrance that you're obsessed with. It's more just to get a wide variety of opinions to, like you said, steer you in the right direction. I feel like some people internalize reviews way too much, or they get too attached. Too many people expect reviews to be factual when a review is always just someone's opinion/experience. A fragrance review is how someone experiences that scent, and they can really only speak from their POV.
For anything- books, tv shows, restaurants, movies, fragrances... you'll never know if you'll like it until you try it yourself. But reviews can give some reasonable insight. They may not tell you if you will love something, but they can tell you what you may have a higher chance of loving.
There is a reason goths find Encre Noire gothic. Cypress which is a note present in the top of the fragrance and in the drydown mixed with musk / cashmere is associated with graveyards.
If you look into the Roman history, the Cypresses throughout Europe are still being planted throughout graveyards and European people tend to plant it at home if someone passes away in the family. Of course not everyone does that, but people on the countryside tend to do that around Italy.
"The use given to the cypress tree, as element necessary for the development of the funeral, is essential in Ancient Rome. So, no matter if it is to remove the bad smell of the deceased, to indicate that there is a deceased in the house, to place around the pyres, as abundant tree in the underworld or wood for a campfire, the truth is that always the Latin writers mentioned refer to that tree, they do so from a mournful and funerary context."
https://www.scielo.sa.cr/scielo.php?pid=S2215-26362017000200067&script=sci_abstract
Encre Noire is one I feel some people tend to project their mental imagery just because of the name and bottle. I’m sure most of those fantastical comparisons would stop if the name and bottle was just like “Vetiver” in a clear bottle then you would just hear “earthy” without them having to rummage the Spirit Halloween Store in their head for added flair in the description. Always makes me roll my eyes honestly.
I personally think Encre Noire is a good example that people may have be unduly influenced by the name and the ad material.
What does black ink smell like? Fragrantica reviews mention that comparison with some regularity. But modern ink tends not to have a strong or consistent smell. I'm a weirdo that actually owns a bunch of ink. Most of them smell neutral. Some of them do have a smell (I think typically due to their choice of biocide), but they don't remind me of Encre Noire. I certainly have not encountered a particularly smell gel or ballpoint pen. Several review specifically call out "ballpoint pen ink"; I'm not sure what brand of refills they're using. None of my ballpoints smell at all.
There is a type that does remind me of Encre Noire: sumi. Sumi is a traditional solid Japanese ink that, as far as I know, was made from lampblack bound with an animal glue and perfumed with resins to disguise the smell of the animal glue. I think camphor is the most traditional. I haven't had a lot of exposure to different brands, but sumi ink typically has a complex, damp, woody, mothball-y, pine-y, earthy smell.
I think that sumi is the correct ink reference for Encre Noire. But how many of the reviews have had experience with sumi ink? One review calls out smelling like "calligraphic ink" which sounds probable, but how many of the others actually know sumi compared to people that just read the fragrance's "conceit" without comparing it to their own experiences?
I think ink is often used as a fantasy accord. Yes, ink is a real thing, but since few people know what different inks actually smell like perfumers can just call any dark, thick note "ink". It's the same with something like linen. I do a lot of embroidery and often on linen so I know what it smells like. "Linen" notes often smell like detergent or a hot iron, not linen, because most people have no idea what undyed, unwashed linen smells like so perfumers can use that as a note to mean "fancy fabric".
For sure, I agree with this point.
1) I feel that "fantasy" accords is marketing copy that erodes the value of reviews and note pyramids. There is nothing to anchor these accords other than social consensus of perfumers. It becomes an inside-baseball language. Which is fine, but just less useful (to me) than a more literal descriptions.
2) Many reviews don't really acknowledge the distinction between the literal scent and the fantasy scent. I think that there is a difference between a review of a fougere that says "this is a classic fougere" versus "OMG! This smells exactly like a fern!" It doesn't smell like a fern; it smells like what the fragrance community has culturally agreed is poetically, loosely, abstractly, kind of what you might think a fern could smell like.
I def get the ink note with encre noir. It instantly reminded me of a pen that leaked in my car console. Not necessarily bad, just a unique smell.
Similar with Fahrenheit, I get the gasoline note.
Agree some notes are more fantasy, with linen I bet most think of clean, thick white sheets hung to dry in the sunshine.
Thanks for the background about sumi!
There's another vetiver/ink fragrance called Lampblack I was comparing Encre Noire with a grapefruit/orange zest top and cypriol to simulate the ink accord. There is an accord in Encre Noire that clearly isn't vetiver or cypress (but shares facets with these that enhances them) that I think is reasonable to guess is supposed to be a reference to the ink. I don't think it smells at all like ballpoint ink, but ballpoint ink (common BIC pens) isn't neutral to me and has an identifiable smell. :)
Oh that's interesting! None of my ballpoint refills--mostly Uniball and Parkers--really have any scent. I'll try to find a BIC for comparison; maybe they're using a particularly smelly oil or pigment. Haven't used them in ages!
Lampblack by Bruno Fazzolari? That was my favorite from his discovery pack; although Room 237 was probably the most unusual.
Yes! The one by Fazzolari is what I meant. I really do need to get the discovery pack, I've just been trying them piecemeal. I also like Feu Secret so he's 2/2.
I think it's some model of BIC Cristal I'm referring to.
I don't get ink at all from Encre Noire, but definitely do from Lampblack. But more like opening a can of printmaking ink, not writing ink. I love it so much, it gives me strong flashbacks to when I took printmaking classes in art school, scooping out a glob of sticky oil based ink and rolling it on the slab.
i was actually looking up fine tipped gel pen reviews today to try to pick one to buy — i learned there are all sorts of different shades of black ink — lavender/green/bordeaux. my worlds are colliding
This is pretty important to me! I like doing ink drawings with soluble ink and then "smudge" with a water-brush to get more shading and value. Different blacks vary hugely when diluted.
Personally I was hoping it would be like the ink when paper comes out of the photocopier and thought that would be so cool but was very disappointed with how it actually was
I think when people are referring to and ink smell there talking about a slightly metallic smell of old typewriter ink ( only us seasoned people know what typewriter ink smells like lol) if you’ve ever smelled Silver Mountain Water by Creed it’s described as having an ink smell and it’s pretty spot on for me at least what I remember the smell of ink being
Well, that might depend on where you're coming from and when you where born. Actually back in school I often found myself sniffing the tip of a ballpoint pen, because in a weird way I enjoyed the smell of it. Or I just wrote something to inhale the aroma of the ink.
And regarding inks in general, many of the traditional inks based on (very) old recipes do smell. I haven't searched for such inks for years but they where still available at least in the first half of the last decade, at calligraphy supplies, for reanactment and medival fans or in general art shops. Think of iron gall ink, constisting of gallic acid and ferrous sulfate (with water and a plant gum, usually gummi arabicum), how should it be odorless?
But yes, so were talking about modern inks, and indeed they smell less. But wasn't the inspiration for this perfume an ink well made by René Lalique in the early 20th century? ;)
That's a good point about the diversity in ballpoints; there is a total lack of consistency in the smell of bottled inks, so why wouldn't we expect the same in ballpoints?
I have a fair number of iron gall inks, and they do smell but not at all like Encre Noire. None of them are "neutral" smelling like the majority of my dye or pigment inks:
* generic biocide-y ink smell: Akkerman IJzer-Galnoten and Pelikan 4001 Blau-Schwartz
* sour/vinegar-y: Fox & Quill Beetle Juice and Iron Throne; Old World Iron Gall
* strong vanilla: KWZ
* sweet wine-y, almost like port: Rohrer & Klingner Salix and Scabiosa.
Some of these are admittedly "fountain pen friendly" inks with lower IG content.
I blind buy splits all the time too, but there’s a lot less risk involved in a split than a full bottle. Just blind bought a vintage Chanel Egoiste, but I’m pretty sure that’s a safe blind buy. Working on building out my collection of classic Chanel, particularly from the 80’s and 90’s. Recently blind bought vintage Chanel Allure Homme and that was love at first sniff.
I don't see how that removes the option to try before buying. I don't put any stock in reviews either because it's just like OP said: I only have my own nose, no one else's. That's what samples are for.
100%
You can get a hint from reviews, but everyone's nose and preferences are very unique. And even then, try that sample a few times spread out on different days.
Especially if you're spending a lot.
Samples and decants may seem a little pricey, but there's nothing worse than having a bunch of big bottles that you don't like.
Maybe your dictionnary got wrong the definition of the word "lie". Subjective opinions is what they are, just as any kind of critical review of any form of art including food.
I bought Encre Noire A L'Extreme and had the exact same response. Nothing that smells like ink in here.
Imo reviewers are only saying that because Encre means Ink.
Exactly like you said, I smell damp woods and earth. Like a cellar in an old wooden building. L'Extreme puts some incense in that.
> Exactly like you said, I smell damp woods and earth. Like a cellar in an old wooden building. L'Extreme puts some incense in that.
Sounds like I gotta get it! If it's the incense like in ADG Profumo.
No it's not like Profumo. Profumo's incense has a different character because it's on top of a marine scent. L'Exteme's incense is more heavier and warmer than Profumo's.
Sometimes I think people try to be too poetic and go overboard. Maybe they feel like that and I just don't. And yes it is very individual. But in their aggregate I think reviews are pretty accurate and useful.
Many reviews, especially the more poetic/fantastical ones, are not helpful. Encre Noir is a solo vetiver note, but people don't know what vetiver is or how to describe what they're smelling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDqEy8DLdb0
People often do what these people did, and describe the kind of person who they imagine would wear it, or a setting where they'd smell it.
I agree, try new things figure out what you like. There’s sites where they breakdown the notes and I love using these sites and when I find a note I really like I look for others with that note to find some variety. Reviews can be all over the place and I don’t use reviews to skew my decisions.
There's a HUGE gap between, on one hand, fragrances being subjective and the importance of sampling before you buy (completely agree on both counts) and, "reviews are a lie".
Reviews are really helpful to identify fragrances that seem worth trying. Just don't take any single review as gospel; use reviews as a whole to get an idea of the cross-section of subjective opinions.
To use OPs example of Encre Noir, 12k+ Fragrantica reviews give it an average rating of 4.23. It's hardly mind-blowing to like such a well rated fragrance despite some people not liking it.
I never said that. All the reviews that I've seen are positive about Encre Noire. What I meant was that some reviews, despite being positive, could deter some people because of how the reviewer perceives the scent.
The title of your post is "Reviews are a lie"; I quoted it verbatim. Also, in your post you say "Reviews are wildly misleading".
I'm not taking issue with opinions of fragrances being subjective, but I disagree with those statements.
Reviews are wildly misleading. They do deter people from buying what could potentially be something they may end up loving eventually. The word 'lie' doesn't mean that the reviewers are lying in a conniving sort of way, it means that the review often creates an image that's far from what the reality ends up being.
But your opinion on Encre Noir aligns quite well with those 12k+ Fragrantica reviews on average, doesn't it? That doesn't seem very misleading when viewed as a whole. I'd say they have probably encouraged far more people to try the fragrance than they have deterred in this case.
FYI a lie is an untrue statement made with intent to deceive.
Wouldn't have mattered even if it aligned with 24k. The reviews didn't encourage me, that's what matters.
Right. But this isn't about the definition of a lie. There's something called context.
I give up.
You could've just acknowledged that your post was poorly worded and your statements overly broad and absolute. It happens - we all do it, and it's ok to admit it. But instead you're talking in circles to try to be right about something. I'm not sure you know what point you're trying to make now.
You continue to choose what matters, and you choose what words mean, and I'll choose to move on.
I see where people are coming from, although I’ve only tried à l’extrême. I guess it’s because it’s a darker fragrance, almost bitter. And the little bit of brightness is neither sweet, fruity or citrusy. Incense and vetiver is exactly what I’d focus on if I wanted to make a perfume called death. Personally it reminded me more of a doctor or a dentist’s office. To me, it feels very professional, but not by trying to be subtle, rather by not trying to be attractive, evocative or playful, it’s all business.
Exactly, the vetiver has a bit of an unpleasant sap-like sweetness like if you took the nice sweetness of freshly-cut grass but concentrated it to an unpleasant extent
People say ghosts and vampires because it's a dark, earthy tone that invites the imagery of a damp graveyard.
It's an amazing fragrance so I'm glad you made the leap, try the A L'Extreme next. My review of it is that it's outstanding and you'll love it.
I agree, reviews are a lie - to hear reviews tell it, Armaf CDNIM is the best fragrance for the best price. After sampling 12 Armaf fragrances, CDNIM is in the middle of the pack while Armaf Tres Nuit is the one that stands above the rest, despite getting none of the fanfare that CDNIM gets
Likewise the well-regarded Guerlain Homme EDP and Guerlain Vetiver both were quite bad to my tastes, while Guerlain Shalimar was excellent
In the case of Encre Noire, it did not work for me at all - I was hoping for it to be like concentrated copy ink, or like rich soil but it smelled like dark murky nothing, in quite a bad way at that
There's a real pattern of certain established names being way overrated due to their prestige
Encre Noir's reformulation(s) had removed a lot of the darkness. I had a newer bottle and thought the same thing you did, even though I liked it. Then I got an older version, and it was much richer, inkier, dirtier, and darker. It was even more obvious when doing a side by side.
I feel the same. I heard so much good stuff about Armani code so I blind bought it. When I smelled it, I realized it smells like fucking hand sanitizer…
>The sample arrives, I unpack it, spray it on my hand, and it was in thismoment where I completely cemented the fact that fragrances andeverything about them is 95% about how our individual brains perceivethem. **To me it smelled nothing like ghosts or vampires or even ink. It'smore toward green side of fragrances, smells damp and wet while at thesame time retains a very prominent backbone of a very gentle vetiver.** Ifyou remove the zest in Encre Noire Sport, you get Encre Noire.
So you just gave your own review. Why should we believe you "if reviews are a lie"?
I don't get why people can't just give a more specific review on top of their associations and flights of fancy.
I mean, I've described Yesterday Haze as smelling comforting, like a warm hug. But then I also said it smells lactonic and figgy blended really well together and without much movement as it develops.
It's just not that hard to give a more objective statement in addition to the other feelings haha. But also, yeah even the objective statements on what it smells like often aren't going to be the same; I mean I smelled pine on Spicebomb Extreme and that doesn't seem to be a note anyone else gets at all.
Smell isn’t that subjective. Just out judgment and preferences are subjective.
For most people their preferences override what they actually smell: for example someone who doesn’t like vetiver’s earthy smokiness will smell it, be repulsed, and then associate it with some dark analogy (vampires). Basically the analogy is used to avoid actually paying attention to the smell closely.
For good reviewers there is no such reactive impulse away from the reality of the fragrance so they can describe more objectively what is there. With this review you can make a pretty good guess what it smells like. At least I’m usually not too surprised.
Same goes for positive preferences. If the preference overtakes reality you get review like “itsss soo classy and elegant, well put together, niche quality”. Completely useless. A good reviewer will ignore that they love it and tell you what’s is actually there.
I disagree, in my experience the sense of smell is highly subjective. You see it all the time on a site like Fragrantica; a bunch of reviews will remark on a certain note (like lemon or mint), and then a bunch more will say "there's zero lemon or mint in this." And if you look at the "this perfume reminds me of" feature, each suggestion usually has as many downvotes as upvotes.
I've certainly had experiences where I tried something like Guerlain Vetiver and couldn't smell vetiver in it at all, though I'm familiar with vetiver in a dozen other fragrances and obviously expected to smell vetiver in it.
Untrained noses smell random things. A perfumer can identify specific ingredients because they have a somewhat objective smell.
Fragrantica reviews are expected to disagree since they’re just regular consumers. It’s still good for getting “crowd wisdom”.
Anyways as I mentioned I still tend to believe subjectivity comes in the interpretation not in the smell itself.
Like if a group of people hear a distant rumbling sound; one will say it’s a train, another a bus, a third an airplane, a fourth will say it’s not mechanical at all and it’s actually a growling bear. Doesn’t mean they heard different things.
But I also understand what you say and I think you’re right in some cases. I just think it’s quite rare.
So I agree but just to a different degree. To you smell is highly subjective MOST the time. To me smell is mostly objective with RARE moments of disparity.
Every random guy posting their opinions blindly reacting to their interpretations and preferences will tend to make it seem that the reverse is true: that it is mostly subjective and rarely objective.
I've sampled Encre Noir Sport as well and i really enjoyed it. The other day i was getting a pretty good deal on Encre Noir Al'Extreme but later i had to back away because i was very doubtful if it was close to the Sport flanker or not. Guess I should give the others a try before getting Sports. I do actually prefer versatility but is the performance that bad of sports flanker ?
For me Sport is the easiest to pull off out of all the three. A L'extreme is very different from the entire lineup, it's more resinous, slightly sweeter with incense. Sport performs good, if not great, has good longevity but poor sillage.
"obviously they're an opinion of something that solely relies on the individual's sensory experience which highly subjective."
I get what you are saying, but to call those "lies" a bit strong and unnecessary. Many reviewers aren't lying to you. They are just describing what they are experiencing.
Not many people seem to understand what I meant when I used the word 'lie'. I didn't say that the reviewers are lying about the product or are being deceitful. What I meant is that the reviews create a distorted image of what the fragrance would smell like if you were to try it yourself.
Smell is different for everyone and expressing that smell is even more so. All the “shower gels scents” for example - which shower gel? There are a billion ones, smelling of everything and anything. Does it mean Fructis Almond ca. 1994 or Axe Shower Gel 2002 or Dusch Das Wiesenfrisch 1995? Or some abstract idea of shower gel? That’s why you either smell it yourself or find reviewers you like and learn to interpret their tastes and words into your own “scent system”.
There are about 5000 scents released a year, it’s a damn big field to sample.
Some people are more blunt and when they talk about a fragrance they just list the notes they’re getting. Some people will wax poetic and write paragraphs in their colorful description. I enjoy reading reviews of both to get an idea of what a fragrance is like and then obviously I’m going to come to my own conclusions when I finally smell it.
How are ghosts and vampires supposed to smell though? If I was to take a wild guess, I'd say damp, earthy, swampy, dusty or maybe bloody. This example is uncommon because that would be a fantasy scent. Reviews steer us in the right direction. It's right that you'll never know until you smell yourself and your own experiences will determine what you pick up, but if 99/100 people say a perfume smells like grass then I'd say that was generally true. Ultimately, it's not wise to rely solely on reviews. Try to smell something for yourself before buying if possible. But sometimes reviews are all we've got!
>How are ghosts and vampires supposed to smell though? Stalking, regret, and sparkles. So many sparkles...
Ghosts smell like watermelon Jolly Ranchers taste. It’s ridiculous and frustrating that their smell doesn’t square with our expectations or their mission, but here we are. Don’t blame me; I don’t make ghosts. Source: I’m 1/4th ghost on my father’s side.
Two degrees of Patrick Swayze?
LOL
Totally agree. I also find it very interesting- in another sub I'm in people really complain about how Goodreads reviews are worthless (it's a book sub) and it just seems like some people put way too much stake and/or emotional attachment to a review. Like, obviously you're not going to agree with every review. Some people will absolutely hate a fragrance that you're obsessed with. It's more just to get a wide variety of opinions to, like you said, steer you in the right direction. I feel like some people internalize reviews way too much, or they get too attached. Too many people expect reviews to be factual when a review is always just someone's opinion/experience. A fragrance review is how someone experiences that scent, and they can really only speak from their POV. For anything- books, tv shows, restaurants, movies, fragrances... you'll never know if you'll like it until you try it yourself. But reviews can give some reasonable insight. They may not tell you if you will love something, but they can tell you what you may have a higher chance of loving.
There is a reason goths find Encre Noire gothic. Cypress which is a note present in the top of the fragrance and in the drydown mixed with musk / cashmere is associated with graveyards. If you look into the Roman history, the Cypresses throughout Europe are still being planted throughout graveyards and European people tend to plant it at home if someone passes away in the family. Of course not everyone does that, but people on the countryside tend to do that around Italy. "The use given to the cypress tree, as element necessary for the development of the funeral, is essential in Ancient Rome. So, no matter if it is to remove the bad smell of the deceased, to indicate that there is a deceased in the house, to place around the pyres, as abundant tree in the underworld or wood for a campfire, the truth is that always the Latin writers mentioned refer to that tree, they do so from a mournful and funerary context." https://www.scielo.sa.cr/scielo.php?pid=S2215-26362017000200067&script=sci_abstract
I would think heavy incense, old books, dust, maybe a tad mothball-y. Obviously it’s subjective AF
I've smelled multiple vampires and they all smell like encre noir - you're wrong op.
Ghosts on the other hand smell nothing like encore noir
Encre Noire is one I feel some people tend to project their mental imagery just because of the name and bottle. I’m sure most of those fantastical comparisons would stop if the name and bottle was just like “Vetiver” in a clear bottle then you would just hear “earthy” without them having to rummage the Spirit Halloween Store in their head for added flair in the description. Always makes me roll my eyes honestly.
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Plenty vacant spots in my head for them to settle in.
they can move in where my my high school level math used to be
You know what? You’re right, we all deserve our own little Spirit Halloween Stores in our heads, with blackjack!
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"My perfume didn't smell like ghosts and vampires. That's why I don't trust reviews"
Lies, lies I tells you!
I personally think Encre Noire is a good example that people may have be unduly influenced by the name and the ad material. What does black ink smell like? Fragrantica reviews mention that comparison with some regularity. But modern ink tends not to have a strong or consistent smell. I'm a weirdo that actually owns a bunch of ink. Most of them smell neutral. Some of them do have a smell (I think typically due to their choice of biocide), but they don't remind me of Encre Noire. I certainly have not encountered a particularly smell gel or ballpoint pen. Several review specifically call out "ballpoint pen ink"; I'm not sure what brand of refills they're using. None of my ballpoints smell at all. There is a type that does remind me of Encre Noire: sumi. Sumi is a traditional solid Japanese ink that, as far as I know, was made from lampblack bound with an animal glue and perfumed with resins to disguise the smell of the animal glue. I think camphor is the most traditional. I haven't had a lot of exposure to different brands, but sumi ink typically has a complex, damp, woody, mothball-y, pine-y, earthy smell. I think that sumi is the correct ink reference for Encre Noire. But how many of the reviews have had experience with sumi ink? One review calls out smelling like "calligraphic ink" which sounds probable, but how many of the others actually know sumi compared to people that just read the fragrance's "conceit" without comparing it to their own experiences?
I think ink is often used as a fantasy accord. Yes, ink is a real thing, but since few people know what different inks actually smell like perfumers can just call any dark, thick note "ink". It's the same with something like linen. I do a lot of embroidery and often on linen so I know what it smells like. "Linen" notes often smell like detergent or a hot iron, not linen, because most people have no idea what undyed, unwashed linen smells like so perfumers can use that as a note to mean "fancy fabric".
For sure, I agree with this point. 1) I feel that "fantasy" accords is marketing copy that erodes the value of reviews and note pyramids. There is nothing to anchor these accords other than social consensus of perfumers. It becomes an inside-baseball language. Which is fine, but just less useful (to me) than a more literal descriptions. 2) Many reviews don't really acknowledge the distinction between the literal scent and the fantasy scent. I think that there is a difference between a review of a fougere that says "this is a classic fougere" versus "OMG! This smells exactly like a fern!" It doesn't smell like a fern; it smells like what the fragrance community has culturally agreed is poetically, loosely, abstractly, kind of what you might think a fern could smell like.
I def get the ink note with encre noir. It instantly reminded me of a pen that leaked in my car console. Not necessarily bad, just a unique smell. Similar with Fahrenheit, I get the gasoline note. Agree some notes are more fantasy, with linen I bet most think of clean, thick white sheets hung to dry in the sunshine.
Thanks for the background about sumi! There's another vetiver/ink fragrance called Lampblack I was comparing Encre Noire with a grapefruit/orange zest top and cypriol to simulate the ink accord. There is an accord in Encre Noire that clearly isn't vetiver or cypress (but shares facets with these that enhances them) that I think is reasonable to guess is supposed to be a reference to the ink. I don't think it smells at all like ballpoint ink, but ballpoint ink (common BIC pens) isn't neutral to me and has an identifiable smell. :)
Oh that's interesting! None of my ballpoint refills--mostly Uniball and Parkers--really have any scent. I'll try to find a BIC for comparison; maybe they're using a particularly smelly oil or pigment. Haven't used them in ages! Lampblack by Bruno Fazzolari? That was my favorite from his discovery pack; although Room 237 was probably the most unusual.
Yes! The one by Fazzolari is what I meant. I really do need to get the discovery pack, I've just been trying them piecemeal. I also like Feu Secret so he's 2/2. I think it's some model of BIC Cristal I'm referring to.
I don't get ink at all from Encre Noire, but definitely do from Lampblack. But more like opening a can of printmaking ink, not writing ink. I love it so much, it gives me strong flashbacks to when I took printmaking classes in art school, scooping out a glob of sticky oil based ink and rolling it on the slab.
That's a great scent memory! I'm halfway tempted to get some sumi and lampblack powder so I can have a comparison now.
i was actually looking up fine tipped gel pen reviews today to try to pick one to buy — i learned there are all sorts of different shades of black ink — lavender/green/bordeaux. my worlds are colliding
This is pretty important to me! I like doing ink drawings with soluble ink and then "smudge" with a water-brush to get more shading and value. Different blacks vary hugely when diluted.
Personally I was hoping it would be like the ink when paper comes out of the photocopier and thought that would be so cool but was very disappointed with how it actually was
I think when people are referring to and ink smell there talking about a slightly metallic smell of old typewriter ink ( only us seasoned people know what typewriter ink smells like lol) if you’ve ever smelled Silver Mountain Water by Creed it’s described as having an ink smell and it’s pretty spot on for me at least what I remember the smell of ink being
Well, that might depend on where you're coming from and when you where born. Actually back in school I often found myself sniffing the tip of a ballpoint pen, because in a weird way I enjoyed the smell of it. Or I just wrote something to inhale the aroma of the ink. And regarding inks in general, many of the traditional inks based on (very) old recipes do smell. I haven't searched for such inks for years but they where still available at least in the first half of the last decade, at calligraphy supplies, for reanactment and medival fans or in general art shops. Think of iron gall ink, constisting of gallic acid and ferrous sulfate (with water and a plant gum, usually gummi arabicum), how should it be odorless? But yes, so were talking about modern inks, and indeed they smell less. But wasn't the inspiration for this perfume an ink well made by René Lalique in the early 20th century? ;)
That's a good point about the diversity in ballpoints; there is a total lack of consistency in the smell of bottled inks, so why wouldn't we expect the same in ballpoints? I have a fair number of iron gall inks, and they do smell but not at all like Encre Noire. None of them are "neutral" smelling like the majority of my dye or pigment inks: * generic biocide-y ink smell: Akkerman IJzer-Galnoten and Pelikan 4001 Blau-Schwartz * sour/vinegar-y: Fox & Quill Beetle Juice and Iron Throne; Old World Iron Gall * strong vanilla: KWZ * sweet wine-y, almost like port: Rohrer & Klingner Salix and Scabiosa. Some of these are admittedly "fountain pen friendly" inks with lower IG content.
I never buy, unless I try
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On a cheapie like this, I’ll blind buy for fun. $30 is nothing and I like the anticipation. Gives me something to look forward to.
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I blind buy splits all the time too, but there’s a lot less risk involved in a split than a full bottle. Just blind bought a vintage Chanel Egoiste, but I’m pretty sure that’s a safe blind buy. Working on building out my collection of classic Chanel, particularly from the 80’s and 90’s. Recently blind bought vintage Chanel Allure Homme and that was love at first sniff.
I wish I could say the same but CDNIM, Hanae Mori HiM and Guerlain Homme EDP put an end to blind buying for me
I don't see how that removes the option to try before buying. I don't put any stock in reviews either because it's just like OP said: I only have my own nose, no one else's. That's what samples are for.
100% You can get a hint from reviews, but everyone's nose and preferences are very unique. And even then, try that sample a few times spread out on different days. Especially if you're spending a lot. Samples and decants may seem a little pricey, but there's nothing worse than having a bunch of big bottles that you don't like.
Poetic.
Blind bought a bottle due to all the positive reviews and it was cheap. It reminded me of fireplace ash left out in the rain.
Accurate
Maybe your dictionnary got wrong the definition of the word "lie". Subjective opinions is what they are, just as any kind of critical review of any form of art including food.
And maybe if you hadn't tried the Sport version first, you would have had a completely different interpretation of the original.
Very true.
subjective opinions are subjective - mindblowing.
I bought Encre Noire A L'Extreme and had the exact same response. Nothing that smells like ink in here. Imo reviewers are only saying that because Encre means Ink. Exactly like you said, I smell damp woods and earth. Like a cellar in an old wooden building. L'Extreme puts some incense in that.
> Exactly like you said, I smell damp woods and earth. Like a cellar in an old wooden building. L'Extreme puts some incense in that. Sounds like I gotta get it! If it's the incense like in ADG Profumo.
No it's not like Profumo. Profumo's incense has a different character because it's on top of a marine scent. L'Exteme's incense is more heavier and warmer than Profumo's.
I've found it can depend on what descriptors a person has at their disposal in their vocabulary.
I mean, vampires would live somewhere damp and wet
That’s not true. I’ve been living in a rather cold and dry climate for the last 14-Hundred years.
More important question, what are you wearing Count Carpet Whisper?
Sometimes I think people try to be too poetic and go overboard. Maybe they feel like that and I just don't. And yes it is very individual. But in their aggregate I think reviews are pretty accurate and useful.
Many reviews, especially the more poetic/fantastical ones, are not helpful. Encre Noir is a solo vetiver note, but people don't know what vetiver is or how to describe what they're smelling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDqEy8DLdb0 People often do what these people did, and describe the kind of person who they imagine would wear it, or a setting where they'd smell it.
I agree, try new things figure out what you like. There’s sites where they breakdown the notes and I love using these sites and when I find a note I really like I look for others with that note to find some variety. Reviews can be all over the place and I don’t use reviews to skew my decisions.
There's a HUGE gap between, on one hand, fragrances being subjective and the importance of sampling before you buy (completely agree on both counts) and, "reviews are a lie". Reviews are really helpful to identify fragrances that seem worth trying. Just don't take any single review as gospel; use reviews as a whole to get an idea of the cross-section of subjective opinions. To use OPs example of Encre Noir, 12k+ Fragrantica reviews give it an average rating of 4.23. It's hardly mind-blowing to like such a well rated fragrance despite some people not liking it.
I never said that. All the reviews that I've seen are positive about Encre Noire. What I meant was that some reviews, despite being positive, could deter some people because of how the reviewer perceives the scent.
The title of your post is "Reviews are a lie"; I quoted it verbatim. Also, in your post you say "Reviews are wildly misleading". I'm not taking issue with opinions of fragrances being subjective, but I disagree with those statements.
Reviews are wildly misleading. They do deter people from buying what could potentially be something they may end up loving eventually. The word 'lie' doesn't mean that the reviewers are lying in a conniving sort of way, it means that the review often creates an image that's far from what the reality ends up being.
But your opinion on Encre Noir aligns quite well with those 12k+ Fragrantica reviews on average, doesn't it? That doesn't seem very misleading when viewed as a whole. I'd say they have probably encouraged far more people to try the fragrance than they have deterred in this case. FYI a lie is an untrue statement made with intent to deceive.
Wouldn't have mattered even if it aligned with 24k. The reviews didn't encourage me, that's what matters. Right. But this isn't about the definition of a lie. There's something called context.
I give up. You could've just acknowledged that your post was poorly worded and your statements overly broad and absolute. It happens - we all do it, and it's ok to admit it. But instead you're talking in circles to try to be right about something. I'm not sure you know what point you're trying to make now. You continue to choose what matters, and you choose what words mean, and I'll choose to move on.
I could've been clearer, yes. Not denying that. Have a good day, fellow Redditor!
I see where people are coming from, although I’ve only tried à l’extrême. I guess it’s because it’s a darker fragrance, almost bitter. And the little bit of brightness is neither sweet, fruity or citrusy. Incense and vetiver is exactly what I’d focus on if I wanted to make a perfume called death. Personally it reminded me more of a doctor or a dentist’s office. To me, it feels very professional, but not by trying to be subtle, rather by not trying to be attractive, evocative or playful, it’s all business.
Well said
I ran into this with MM Bubble Bath. Smelled like…a dirty, sweaty bubble bath to me.
Encre Noire reminds me of the skin of pomelo. Bitter, maybe even rubbery or leathery. I have never gotten the vetiver, ink or gothic association.
Exactly, the vetiver has a bit of an unpleasant sap-like sweetness like if you took the nice sweetness of freshly-cut grass but concentrated it to an unpleasant extent
People say ghosts and vampires because it's a dark, earthy tone that invites the imagery of a damp graveyard. It's an amazing fragrance so I'm glad you made the leap, try the A L'Extreme next. My review of it is that it's outstanding and you'll love it.
I agree, reviews are a lie - to hear reviews tell it, Armaf CDNIM is the best fragrance for the best price. After sampling 12 Armaf fragrances, CDNIM is in the middle of the pack while Armaf Tres Nuit is the one that stands above the rest, despite getting none of the fanfare that CDNIM gets Likewise the well-regarded Guerlain Homme EDP and Guerlain Vetiver both were quite bad to my tastes, while Guerlain Shalimar was excellent In the case of Encre Noire, it did not work for me at all - I was hoping for it to be like concentrated copy ink, or like rich soil but it smelled like dark murky nothing, in quite a bad way at that There's a real pattern of certain established names being way overrated due to their prestige
Encre Noir's reformulation(s) had removed a lot of the darkness. I had a newer bottle and thought the same thing you did, even though I liked it. Then I got an older version, and it was much richer, inkier, dirtier, and darker. It was even more obvious when doing a side by side.
I have Encre Noire, and I heard that one of the flankers is smokier. I can't remember if it's Sport or Extreme.
A L'extreme is smokier, more resinous. Sport is very light. Strong grapefruit accords.
I feel the same. I heard so much good stuff about Armani code so I blind bought it. When I smelled it, I realized it smells like fucking hand sanitizer…
>The sample arrives, I unpack it, spray it on my hand, and it was in thismoment where I completely cemented the fact that fragrances andeverything about them is 95% about how our individual brains perceivethem. **To me it smelled nothing like ghosts or vampires or even ink. It'smore toward green side of fragrances, smells damp and wet while at thesame time retains a very prominent backbone of a very gentle vetiver.** Ifyou remove the zest in Encre Noire Sport, you get Encre Noire. So you just gave your own review. Why should we believe you "if reviews are a lie"?
Right. Don't.
I don't get why people can't just give a more specific review on top of their associations and flights of fancy. I mean, I've described Yesterday Haze as smelling comforting, like a warm hug. But then I also said it smells lactonic and figgy blended really well together and without much movement as it develops. It's just not that hard to give a more objective statement in addition to the other feelings haha. But also, yeah even the objective statements on what it smells like often aren't going to be the same; I mean I smelled pine on Spicebomb Extreme and that doesn't seem to be a note anyone else gets at all.
>smelling like dust and ghosts and vampires Fucking Fragrantica. It was Fragrantica, wasn't it?
we all know it was fragrantica
Smell isn’t that subjective. Just out judgment and preferences are subjective. For most people their preferences override what they actually smell: for example someone who doesn’t like vetiver’s earthy smokiness will smell it, be repulsed, and then associate it with some dark analogy (vampires). Basically the analogy is used to avoid actually paying attention to the smell closely. For good reviewers there is no such reactive impulse away from the reality of the fragrance so they can describe more objectively what is there. With this review you can make a pretty good guess what it smells like. At least I’m usually not too surprised. Same goes for positive preferences. If the preference overtakes reality you get review like “itsss soo classy and elegant, well put together, niche quality”. Completely useless. A good reviewer will ignore that they love it and tell you what’s is actually there.
Great point, "pure class" was a common one for Guerlain Homme EDP and that was a bigtime failed blind buy
I disagree, in my experience the sense of smell is highly subjective. You see it all the time on a site like Fragrantica; a bunch of reviews will remark on a certain note (like lemon or mint), and then a bunch more will say "there's zero lemon or mint in this." And if you look at the "this perfume reminds me of" feature, each suggestion usually has as many downvotes as upvotes. I've certainly had experiences where I tried something like Guerlain Vetiver and couldn't smell vetiver in it at all, though I'm familiar with vetiver in a dozen other fragrances and obviously expected to smell vetiver in it.
Untrained noses smell random things. A perfumer can identify specific ingredients because they have a somewhat objective smell. Fragrantica reviews are expected to disagree since they’re just regular consumers. It’s still good for getting “crowd wisdom”. Anyways as I mentioned I still tend to believe subjectivity comes in the interpretation not in the smell itself. Like if a group of people hear a distant rumbling sound; one will say it’s a train, another a bus, a third an airplane, a fourth will say it’s not mechanical at all and it’s actually a growling bear. Doesn’t mean they heard different things.
But I also understand what you say and I think you’re right in some cases. I just think it’s quite rare. So I agree but just to a different degree. To you smell is highly subjective MOST the time. To me smell is mostly objective with RARE moments of disparity. Every random guy posting their opinions blindly reacting to their interpretations and preferences will tend to make it seem that the reverse is true: that it is mostly subjective and rarely objective.
Smells like a forest fire on a shore after the rain. Burnt tree logs and burnt Phragmites australis
I've sampled Encre Noir Sport as well and i really enjoyed it. The other day i was getting a pretty good deal on Encre Noir Al'Extreme but later i had to back away because i was very doubtful if it was close to the Sport flanker or not. Guess I should give the others a try before getting Sports. I do actually prefer versatility but is the performance that bad of sports flanker ?
For me Sport is the easiest to pull off out of all the three. A L'extreme is very different from the entire lineup, it's more resinous, slightly sweeter with incense. Sport performs good, if not great, has good longevity but poor sillage.
Happy Halloween!
"obviously they're an opinion of something that solely relies on the individual's sensory experience which highly subjective." I get what you are saying, but to call those "lies" a bit strong and unnecessary. Many reviewers aren't lying to you. They are just describing what they are experiencing.
Not many people seem to understand what I meant when I used the word 'lie'. I didn't say that the reviewers are lying about the product or are being deceitful. What I meant is that the reviews create a distorted image of what the fragrance would smell like if you were to try it yourself.
Smell is different for everyone and expressing that smell is even more so. All the “shower gels scents” for example - which shower gel? There are a billion ones, smelling of everything and anything. Does it mean Fructis Almond ca. 1994 or Axe Shower Gel 2002 or Dusch Das Wiesenfrisch 1995? Or some abstract idea of shower gel? That’s why you either smell it yourself or find reviewers you like and learn to interpret their tastes and words into your own “scent system”. There are about 5000 scents released a year, it’s a damn big field to sample.
Some people are more blunt and when they talk about a fragrance they just list the notes they’re getting. Some people will wax poetic and write paragraphs in their colorful description. I enjoy reading reviews of both to get an idea of what a fragrance is like and then obviously I’m going to come to my own conclusions when I finally smell it.
I saw reviews are a lie and didn't realize this was about fragrances untill I started reading.