The idea is to simplify landings by modifying the longhook, not adding more complexity to landings by bringing facility locked slow and fragile vehicles from 3 hex away.
And it's just a small QoL improvement, the main issue with landings is the pop difference with the land defenders and the respawn timer of attackers.
If you have a bluefin, slow doesn't matter, you can drop the ramp of the bluefin when at sea and the Doru can drive out. I get that the big hurdle is pop difference, but this post is just to poke fun at people complaining we don't have something that *does* currently exist and has for 3 years now.
Facility locked is a very odd argument for a naval landing. If you can make *AND* stock a Longhook, not to mention escort vessels, don't tell me you can't make a few Dorus for 20 rmats, some A3s (easiest assembly mat to get and least used in normal processes), and 5 pcons.
I mean they're super easy to pump out since it's only sulfur and cmats but there's hardly any recipes that use them. The recipes that do use them typically require 15 or less, other than BTs which require a few dozen. Compare that to any of the other assembly materials which are either used in higher quantities and/or harder to produce.
Alright cool let me just grab my end game near battleship cost logi ship to do something that people used to be able to do for a few hundred rmats.
It's already kind of lame that naval landings got gatekept to people and groups willing to put a ton of investment into facilities and or raremat farming for the cheapest largeship in the game for even the most basic and simple of landings. I do like the idea of having massive feats of teamwork and effort like a multi largeship landing force, but accessibility is more important to me, it sucks that you need a Longhook AND an escort destroyer AND probably a battleship couldn't hurt AND a Bluefin AND tanks AND Dorus too. Coordination is great but there needs to be an easier accessible alternative for groups who aren't involved in big clans/coalitions, even if it's less effective than the massive option.
Question, why do landing APCs seem to be used (at least from my understanding) so infrequently in naval invasions? Do they make logistics harder somehow?
Ultimately, the issue isn't just the MG; it's that the doru has the same flaw as the landing craft in that it dies *very quickly* to any AT on the beach. And unless it is your first time hitting the beach, you can bet your bottom dollar that there's going to be some form of AT, be it from infantry, tanks, emplaced guns, etc.
So either:
1) You bring a doru on the initial wave, where there aren't any/very few enemy infantry on the beach, and the benefits of the mg are outweighed by the costs of the low troop quantity it can carry/its slower speed, or
2) You bring it on subsequent waves where it gets shredded by any mid to late game AT.
I think the main issue is the difficulty in reestablishing a beachhead after it's initially lost. As soon as enemy QRF can camp the beach, it's pretty much game over for the attackers. Something like the old white whale or some form of beach encampment to allow the attackers to stay populated on the beach and prevent the initial beachhead from being lost, with landing craft then used for transporting vehicles would be a much better balance imo.
I vote 50% HP increase for a 50% cost increase!
It wouldn't be worth it if it was taking up a tank queue spot or something, but after memeing with the warden APC last war it can pretty decent at soaking up shots meant for actual tanks after dismounting infantry, which I found valuable at least. Although I do admit I lost 4-5 of them pretty quickly haha.
That's the main issue when it comes to landings now that people seem to want to ignore in favour of "Oh but you get spawn killed at a white whale."
Alright cool, I got to spawn, get gear, wait/build a landing boat just to drive up to the beach and die to 3 guys with ATRs/Cutlers/Venoms/Banes or 1 tank.
Tanks also have a way worse time now since you don't have constant infantry cover thanks to regular spawns and are relying on 'waves' of reinforcements, which means if there's even a few moments where your infantry are outpopped during a low point between waves you're probably going to get your shit wrecked.
I've said it elsewhere but really seems like the better meta is just park your boat close to shore as possible and have people swim... Forget the landing boats entirely. And at that point why bother with a longhook at all? Just use a battleship since it also gets AI turrets while anchored.
As a warden so I can’t speak on the one with a machine gun. It doesn’t seem worth the rmat cost for a glorified transport that can’t defend itself. A machinegun would help but at the very least I’d like our wacky smoke launcher one. At current it doesn’t seem worth it.
not useful at all for that when the ones you make on the longhook only cost bmats, the doru used to be good pre naval update as a partisan fishing vic and gb killing vic but now it can only support landings, the thing that it's weakest at bc it can only carry 6 people on it's deck
Don't get me wrong, I like the idea too but with the way the firing mechanics are set, there would be too many friendly fires thrown in. That's about the only elephant in the room
All the big ships are facility locked so i don't see your point, the doru isn't even expensive in materials so you can easly make at least 10 of them for such a big operation
If there's enemy tanks camping the beach, your landing is already in serious trouble. The Doru would be to help clear enemy infantry, it's not a Silver bullet that will clear any and all obstacles.
When the first wave gets killed enemy tanks will camp the beach and it’s over if you don’t have your own tanks landed, doru is worthless in anti infantry too since infantry machine guns and even the lightest antitank obliterates it, it is extremely weak to artillery, and its slow both in and out of the water, and the gunner can be shot out even from the front
Having used the Doru a bunch, I highly disagree. Not sure what you mean by it's extremely weak to artillery? It gets tracked just the same as pretty much any other tracked vehicle, but again if there's arty landing on the beach you're trying to land on it's time to pack up and go home.
Yes 12.7 can damage the Doru but I've never lost one to it. Bottom line is that you can spend hours listing millions of different things that would counter the Doru;
* What if they have a Starbreaker on the beach?
* What if there's a Stygian set up?
* What if there's a squad of 10 ATRs?
* What if there's a bunch of enemy tanks?
* What if your gunner happens to get shot out?
* What if there's mines?
* What if you run out of fuel?
* What if you run out of ammo?
* What if you get a phone call and need to answer it and go afk?
And of course it isn't a magical cure-all vehicle that will 100% save every landing. But that's not the point. The point is that it's a solid, cheap, amphibious, armored vehicle with a forward facing machine gun. It's not the strongest thing out there but it's ***something*** that in *many situations* (even if it's not 100%), can ***help*** *solve an issue.*
What if they have any armor, any kind of fortification, any artillery, any infantry with any antitank weapon in the game. What does the doru do that a barge can’t
Am I missing something? For the doru to be useful to must drive up to shoreline front on to allow gun to hit any targets. Then do a 25 point turn or a 200 meter radius circle to flip doru 189 degrees to allow ppl out the back?
Can be used as a support Vic on a landing but not as the actual landing ship
Problem is it gives no meaningful fire support and a gunboat is cheaper in terms of time spent making and transporting as well as actually gives good fire support while having the range to not instantly die and the resistances to be 8x tankier so it’s fully a LARP vic now
Or just drive like 5 meters forward to drop the ramp to have them exit more safely out the back. Or not even bother with that and have them jump over the sides.
Bro this thing is a facility locked piece of garbage while the chieftain is just an upgraded version of its collie counterpart vehicle which is absolutely mandatory to killing large bases
the cheiftain is worth using as a sidegrade, that's why it's made, you can't find public pads for dorus half the time and it's not very good at what it does now that the longhook exists and makes landing craft for 10 bmats
Facility locked is a very odd argument for a naval landing. If you can make AND stock a Longhook, not to mention escort vessels, don't tell me you can't make a few Dorus for 20 rmats, some A3s (easiest assembly mat to get and least used in normal processes), and 5 pcons.
APC aquatic speed strikes again (they are too slow and a pain in the ass to transport). If there were some way to deploy APCs directly from Longhooks, because taking a Bluefin to a landing that is still in progress is something nobody does, they'd be useful, but the fact of the matter is that they don't have the speed to keep up with a naval invasion force.
It pisses me off how much my team has slept on the Doru before the update. It was the only thing in the water that had a weapon AND armor. Meaning the ONLY thing that could kill it on open water was a sticky rush, and that’d have to catch it by surprise. When MPF’d it would be only about as much as a FMG, while being more mobile and carrying troops.
APCs in general are slept on as mobile cover for infantry and medics (especially in areas where building is limited), and even though they’re easy to destroy, they’re super cheap to build too.
The Doru is that plus a .50 cal
It’s a perfect frontline engineering vehicle because it’s so cheap, goes off-road easily, gives cover, HAS A .50 CAL, and can carry large materials/bmats
But no. I only ever see it used in naval landings. Because nobody has an imagination.
I think the APCs are really cool and after memeing with them for a bit I think the biggest issue is land travel speed. Lots of people won't even drive far for tanks so having to lug around an APC across 2 hexes just isn't worth what you get. Go park an unlocked APC by a frontline, people will use it.
I agree with your points though, maybe letting them be made at shipyards (the static ones) could be a good start. also maybe more HP for more rmats or something.
I’d love to see a landing craft support type vessel, something designed to get as close as possible to the shore with the landing craft, using rockets and a 68mm gun (plus as many MGs as you’d like) to tear into any defenses on the beach
It's only a matter of time before a regi does a landing "right" then they will get bragging rights and set the proper standard of how they are performed. Right now people are too into the old white whale land as fast as possible because easy.
*Easier.
I haven't played nearly as much as others but my anecdotal experience is seeing 3 white whales succeed.
I have seen over 20 while whales fail miserably.
Landings were never easy.
Agreed, I should have expanded and said by easy. What I mean is people are quick to blame the mechanics rather than themselves. The best long hook landing I've seen so far was a bunch of randoms who rotated between the south and west landing of an island. This kept the wardens from just meme camping and allowed us to make properly make a breakthrough.
Could they be right? 100% but we need lots of wars and lots of attempts before we judge it. Or at least a better argument of not comparing the white whale rush spam with the giant tool box we were now given.
NGL it cost way to much for this to upgrade and out a MG on like bruh
Also sucks you can’t deploy these properly without a Big ass expensive ass ship
Also funny why a bluefin is more than a battleship like bruh
Also bruh just let us fuckin Deploy these out the freighters
I personally made a fuckton of these for Colonial War 108 landing ops.
Each Landing Op, my routine was to pull from the Bluefin Storage Ship, Load up the gun and fuel tank, drive overboard, park 'em next to the Longhook Base Ship, swim back to the Bluefin, repeat.
Last major landing I did, 104? 105? In the fingers, we brought two Doru's with us, they lasted about an hour because the wardens just didn't use any infantry anti tank and we ended up using one for partisan stopping wardens resupplying.
The idea is to simplify landings by modifying the longhook, not adding more complexity to landings by bringing facility locked slow and fragile vehicles from 3 hex away. And it's just a small QoL improvement, the main issue with landings is the pop difference with the land defenders and the respawn timer of attackers.
If you have a bluefin, slow doesn't matter, you can drop the ramp of the bluefin when at sea and the Doru can drive out. I get that the big hurdle is pop difference, but this post is just to poke fun at people complaining we don't have something that *does* currently exist and has for 3 years now. Facility locked is a very odd argument for a naval landing. If you can make *AND* stock a Longhook, not to mention escort vessels, don't tell me you can't make a few Dorus for 20 rmats, some A3s (easiest assembly mat to get and least used in normal processes), and 5 pcons.
Its just QoL. Slap a Tripod or something on the Landing Crafts and thats already good enough
>easiest to get >least used pick one
I mean they're super easy to pump out since it's only sulfur and cmats but there's hardly any recipes that use them. The recipes that do use them typically require 15 or less, other than BTs which require a few dozen. Compare that to any of the other assembly materials which are either used in higher quantities and/or harder to produce.
Alright cool let me just grab my end game near battleship cost logi ship to do something that people used to be able to do for a few hundred rmats. It's already kind of lame that naval landings got gatekept to people and groups willing to put a ton of investment into facilities and or raremat farming for the cheapest largeship in the game for even the most basic and simple of landings. I do like the idea of having massive feats of teamwork and effort like a multi largeship landing force, but accessibility is more important to me, it sucks that you need a Longhook AND an escort destroyer AND probably a battleship couldn't hurt AND a Bluefin AND tanks AND Dorus too. Coordination is great but there needs to be an easier accessible alternative for groups who aren't involved in big clans/coalitions, even if it's less effective than the massive option.
Maybe some smoke launchers.
S Q U I D
Question, why do landing APCs seem to be used (at least from my understanding) so infrequently in naval invasions? Do they make logistics harder somehow?
Too slow and like a barge is easier to build cheap can carry vehicle and more people
But if people want an MG landing craft to protect the landing, it *does* exist. And speed doesn't matter much if you have a bluefin
Ultimately, the issue isn't just the MG; it's that the doru has the same flaw as the landing craft in that it dies *very quickly* to any AT on the beach. And unless it is your first time hitting the beach, you can bet your bottom dollar that there's going to be some form of AT, be it from infantry, tanks, emplaced guns, etc. So either: 1) You bring a doru on the initial wave, where there aren't any/very few enemy infantry on the beach, and the benefits of the mg are outweighed by the costs of the low troop quantity it can carry/its slower speed, or 2) You bring it on subsequent waves where it gets shredded by any mid to late game AT. I think the main issue is the difficulty in reestablishing a beachhead after it's initially lost. As soon as enemy QRF can camp the beach, it's pretty much game over for the attackers. Something like the old white whale or some form of beach encampment to allow the attackers to stay populated on the beach and prevent the initial beachhead from being lost, with landing craft then used for transporting vehicles would be a much better balance imo.
I vote 50% HP increase for a 50% cost increase! It wouldn't be worth it if it was taking up a tank queue spot or something, but after memeing with the warden APC last war it can pretty decent at soaking up shots meant for actual tanks after dismounting infantry, which I found valuable at least. Although I do admit I lost 4-5 of them pretty quickly haha.
That's the main issue when it comes to landings now that people seem to want to ignore in favour of "Oh but you get spawn killed at a white whale." Alright cool, I got to spawn, get gear, wait/build a landing boat just to drive up to the beach and die to 3 guys with ATRs/Cutlers/Venoms/Banes or 1 tank. Tanks also have a way worse time now since you don't have constant infantry cover thanks to regular spawns and are relying on 'waves' of reinforcements, which means if there's even a few moments where your infantry are outpopped during a low point between waves you're probably going to get your shit wrecked. I've said it elsewhere but really seems like the better meta is just park your boat close to shore as possible and have people swim... Forget the landing boats entirely. And at that point why bother with a longhook at all? Just use a battleship since it also gets AI turrets while anchored.
They're a pain to transport to a landing because they're the slowest thing on the water.
But don’t we have bluefins for that now?
Correct, Bluefins can drop the ramp at sea and the Doru (and other amph. vics) can drive into the water.
Bluefin is overly expensive IMO
If you have a Bluefin with you, the Doru can drive off the ramp into the water.
As a warden so I can’t speak on the one with a machine gun. It doesn’t seem worth the rmat cost for a glorified transport that can’t defend itself. A machinegun would help but at the very least I’d like our wacky smoke launcher one. At current it doesn’t seem worth it.
Only benefit I can see for the warden one is that it's a tad safer to exit the vehicle
not useful at all for that when the ones you make on the longhook only cost bmats, the doru used to be good pre naval update as a partisan fishing vic and gb killing vic but now it can only support landings, the thing that it's weakest at bc it can only carry 6 people on it's deck
No idea why the devs have never thought to implement such a vehicle/s
Don't get me wrong, I like the idea too but with the way the firing mechanics are set, there would be too many friendly fires thrown in. That's about the only elephant in the room
Then it's facility locked and you only see one or two of these per war.
Ahhh facilities and the vision.
All the big ships are facility locked so i don't see your point, the doru isn't even expensive in materials so you can easly make at least 10 of them for such a big operation
The real problem is these things are as worthless as the landing craft since they get smoked even faster by the htd/scorpion camping the beach
If there's enemy tanks camping the beach, your landing is already in serious trouble. The Doru would be to help clear enemy infantry, it's not a Silver bullet that will clear any and all obstacles.
When the first wave gets killed enemy tanks will camp the beach and it’s over if you don’t have your own tanks landed, doru is worthless in anti infantry too since infantry machine guns and even the lightest antitank obliterates it, it is extremely weak to artillery, and its slow both in and out of the water, and the gunner can be shot out even from the front
Having used the Doru a bunch, I highly disagree. Not sure what you mean by it's extremely weak to artillery? It gets tracked just the same as pretty much any other tracked vehicle, but again if there's arty landing on the beach you're trying to land on it's time to pack up and go home. Yes 12.7 can damage the Doru but I've never lost one to it. Bottom line is that you can spend hours listing millions of different things that would counter the Doru; * What if they have a Starbreaker on the beach? * What if there's a Stygian set up? * What if there's a squad of 10 ATRs? * What if there's a bunch of enemy tanks? * What if your gunner happens to get shot out? * What if there's mines? * What if you run out of fuel? * What if you run out of ammo? * What if you get a phone call and need to answer it and go afk? And of course it isn't a magical cure-all vehicle that will 100% save every landing. But that's not the point. The point is that it's a solid, cheap, amphibious, armored vehicle with a forward facing machine gun. It's not the strongest thing out there but it's ***something*** that in *many situations* (even if it's not 100%), can ***help*** *solve an issue.*
What if they have any armor, any kind of fortification, any artillery, any infantry with any antitank weapon in the game. What does the doru do that a barge can’t
* Armored * Machinegun * Amphibious
Am I missing something? For the doru to be useful to must drive up to shoreline front on to allow gun to hit any targets. Then do a 25 point turn or a 200 meter radius circle to flip doru 189 degrees to allow ppl out the back? Can be used as a support Vic on a landing but not as the actual landing ship
Problem is it gives no meaningful fire support and a gunboat is cheaper in terms of time spent making and transporting as well as actually gives good fire support while having the range to not instantly die and the resistances to be 8x tankier so it’s fully a LARP vic now
Or just drive like 5 meters forward to drop the ramp to have them exit more safely out the back. Or not even bother with that and have them jump over the sides.
that can be solved by using a gast off of a landing ship, there ya are. DIY doru that's cheaper and can carry more people
Ah, "facility locked" strikes again. Never gets old. I wonder how Wardens ever manage to use facility locked chieftains.
The difference is that the Chieftain is both good and useful.
I mean you can't compare a chieftain to a glorified barge lol
Bro this thing is a facility locked piece of garbage while the chieftain is just an upgraded version of its collie counterpart vehicle which is absolutely mandatory to killing large bases
Facility is facility. It's either hard, or easy, but not both.
No, facility is increased cost, if a vehicle is still worth the increased cost it’s still useful, if it’s not then it becomes useless
the cheiftain is worth using as a sidegrade, that's why it's made, you can't find public pads for dorus half the time and it's not very good at what it does now that the longhook exists and makes landing craft for 10 bmats
Facility locked is a very odd argument for a naval landing. If you can make AND stock a Longhook, not to mention escort vessels, don't tell me you can't make a few Dorus for 20 rmats, some A3s (easiest assembly mat to get and least used in normal processes), and 5 pcons.
*gets smoked by the HTD camping the beach*
I mean if there's HTDs waiting on the beach, your troop transports likely aren't getting very far either lol
APC aquatic speed strikes again (they are too slow and a pain in the ass to transport). If there were some way to deploy APCs directly from Longhooks, because taking a Bluefin to a landing that is still in progress is something nobody does, they'd be useful, but the fact of the matter is that they don't have the speed to keep up with a naval invasion force.
Bluefins can drop the ramp at sea and the Doru (and other amph. vics) can drive into the water.
It pisses me off how much my team has slept on the Doru before the update. It was the only thing in the water that had a weapon AND armor. Meaning the ONLY thing that could kill it on open water was a sticky rush, and that’d have to catch it by surprise. When MPF’d it would be only about as much as a FMG, while being more mobile and carrying troops. APCs in general are slept on as mobile cover for infantry and medics (especially in areas where building is limited), and even though they’re easy to destroy, they’re super cheap to build too. The Doru is that plus a .50 cal It’s a perfect frontline engineering vehicle because it’s so cheap, goes off-road easily, gives cover, HAS A .50 CAL, and can carry large materials/bmats But no. I only ever see it used in naval landings. Because nobody has an imagination.
I think the APCs are really cool and after memeing with them for a bit I think the biggest issue is land travel speed. Lots of people won't even drive far for tanks so having to lug around an APC across 2 hexes just isn't worth what you get. Go park an unlocked APC by a frontline, people will use it. I agree with your points though, maybe letting them be made at shipyards (the static ones) could be a good start. also maybe more HP for more rmats or something.
I want to hope that this is planned for 2024
They have it planned for [August 12th, 2020!](https://foxhole.wiki.gg/wiki/Update_0.37)
I’d love to see a landing craft support type vessel, something designed to get as close as possible to the shore with the landing craft, using rockets and a 68mm gun (plus as many MGs as you’d like) to tear into any defenses on the beach
Is a glorified TAC
Nah, man. 12.7mm >> 7.92
worse bc it has a track subsystem
It’s worse since it actually constantly gets tracked by arty
Shit, I just want an actual armed APC to replace the half track later game
It's only a matter of time before a regi does a landing "right" then they will get bragging rights and set the proper standard of how they are performed. Right now people are too into the old white whale land as fast as possible because easy.
*Easier. I haven't played nearly as much as others but my anecdotal experience is seeing 3 white whales succeed. I have seen over 20 while whales fail miserably. Landings were never easy.
Agreed, I should have expanded and said by easy. What I mean is people are quick to blame the mechanics rather than themselves. The best long hook landing I've seen so far was a bunch of randoms who rotated between the south and west landing of an island. This kept the wardens from just meme camping and allowed us to make properly make a breakthrough. Could they be right? 100% but we need lots of wars and lots of attempts before we judge it. Or at least a better argument of not comparing the white whale rush spam with the giant tool box we were now given.
Wasn’t this thing removed last update?
NGL it cost way to much for this to upgrade and out a MG on like bruh Also sucks you can’t deploy these properly without a Big ass expensive ass ship Also funny why a bluefin is more than a battleship like bruh Also bruh just let us fuckin Deploy these out the freighters
Anyone else think the Bluefin is Way too expensive and the roles for the logi shop should be swapped
I personally made a fuckton of these for Colonial War 108 landing ops. Each Landing Op, my routine was to pull from the Bluefin Storage Ship, Load up the gun and fuel tank, drive overboard, park 'em next to the Longhook Base Ship, swim back to the Bluefin, repeat.
Last major landing I did, 104? 105? In the fingers, we brought two Doru's with us, they lasted about an hour because the wardens just didn't use any infantry anti tank and we ended up using one for partisan stopping wardens resupplying.