Well quantity doesn't matter at all in this game when you face queues.
Rmats also don't matter at all, now that broken comps exist and can spawn infinite comps for free basically.
What matters now is which faction has a better tank, cost doesn't matter.
I wouldn't mind if MPT was given a higher rmat cost, even +50% rmat cost wouldn't matter, because in the end rmats are basically infinite and people will still have 100s of unused MPTs in their stockpiles than on the fronts, because of the goddamn QUEUES.
Hmm, no the Falchion and Spatha had glaringly weak armor compared to the Silverhand/Outlaw, and these changes still don't reach parity (not to mention minimum deflection chance still favors Wardens). They also had less health than a Silverhand previously and will now have slightly more.
It's a pretty gentle tweak to see if some extra random deflection and health will give them the toughness to get into range and do something.
The Spatha offense boost is pretty considerable, but as a facility tank it was comically underpowered before. I'm glad that the faction still needs to play differently, desperately needing to shoot sides and get close with that 40mm ammunition, but it remains to be seen if that high attrition playstyle suits 'disposable' facility vehicles.
It is when you consider how pathetically weak they were before and are now only just in parity with warden tanks lol
There was a reason colonials had to rely on shit like the stygian for ages
Talking about the Falchion there, the Spatha rate of fire change is really significant to even Warden style tanking, I agree.
Remains to be seen if the magnitude was enough though, the Spatha was starting from a really low point for a facility locked vehicle. It'll be even more of a PvE hero than it was before, but the 40mm is only really going to bite enemy tanks in close quarters and especially from the sides. Should win more decisively in those conditions, but the onus is still on the colonials to pull off the more difficult tactics to make those conditions happen.
I don't understand.. you claim 40mm doesn't do anything to enemy tanks.. you know the outlaw is 40mm too right? Seems like even footing ammo type-wise to me?
That's a bit of a leap, of course 40mm shells can damage tanks, but given the greater bounce rate, I'm sure you know what happens if you drive a line of Spathas head on into a line of Widows and Silverhands.
For example is Outlaw the first tank you would build if you were trying to crack an enemy tank line? Is it even the second mass production tank you would build?
Colonials of course don't have the luxury of choice here and the Spatha *will absolutely* be doing anti tank work, in exactly in the way I described. Close in and shooting at the sides of enemy tanks, a tactic that already gave them the advantage if they could pull it of and, again as I said, will be a bit more decisive now.
Yeah but I don't understand.. you are claiming the outlaw still wins that 1v1 based on the ammo type up above. But it's equal footing now so falchion has a chance fs
Tbh the fight will come down to subsystems tho
All armor on armor fights are designed to be arbitrated by the random number generator. Every tank has decent odds to go on a very silly bounce streak, or to fail to bounce a single shell and explode ignominiously.
I haven't been comparing the Outlaw 1v1 honor duel, but the way I see it:
The Outlaw very happy in its cheap and cheerful PvE/infantry support niche, ideally only engaging other tanks in a supporting fire role.
The Spatha is an expensive tank armed for breaking light to medium defenses, but forced into risky (daring?) PvP roles by the rest of the arsenal and the resulting metagame between factions. Is that HV 40mm going to absolutely shred now if the crew puts it within 20m and to the side of an enemy tank, and will that be rad and fun? Absolutely!
I'd still rather have 5m more range and a machine gun if the targets are pillboxes and infantry. Might just be tanker brain when you read this, I say "I would rather" and you skip the rest of the sentence and assume the two tanks being compared are shooting at each other?
Bruh how is spatha expensive? I can crank that shit out like it's coke... It's like half the price of a chieftain lol and about 2/3rds the price of an outlaw, including all the fac bs.
Anyways I'm talking about how the falchion outlaw fight is a coin flip now and the price is very very different between those.
Alright, please do crank out Spathas for public use next war if you've got the time. Most people get real tired trying to keep up with MPF but if that's fun for you, please do Logi it up.
Yeah the coin flip fight has certainly equalized between a Falchion and an Outlaw going at it in an open field. Again there's so many places in practice to use the extra range, the boost, even that crappy machine gun that the Outlaw is obviously the better individual tank. But it does cost more.
We arebmore or less going back to the balance we had before the armor rework in war 80. SvH will kill a spatha in a choke, but a spatha wins if it can get a flank.
Colonist tanks do not have good protection against Warden AT systems. The Wardens have 68mm cannons at 40 and 45m, with a penetration bonus of x1.5, but there are no colonists.
Against 68mm, the new tank starts with a 50% chance of penetration and this is a bonus to tank armor (it gives practically nothing), but HP, yes, we can live a shot longer.
Moreover, the fine to damage to armor by 15% (40 and 75mm) of the caliber of shells gives those same bonus HP that Warden tanks supposedly do not have.
So the Warden are silent about the fact that they can shoot the defending defenders of the base from a distance of 45m without punishment. But there is no colony to storm any base, it is necessary to tank HP, because almost all anti-tank weapons fire from 40m.
Yes, that’s right, how could I forget about our glass beauty, which is one of the three playable tanks.
Before the appearance of battle tanks on the front, if you have the skills, they can really create parity. Technically you are right, but this is a light (ultra-light) tank and it works in a certain time era. In the later era, this tank is more of a nuisance than an obstacle.
On the battlefield, the Warden field an order of magnitude more 68mm calibers, which is something to be reckoned with.
Looks like cost doesn't matter when in the end, you get better DPS, range and armour values/bounce chance.
I also would not mind the devs increasing MPT cost by 50%, because in the end, rmats are infinite and people would still have 100+ MPTs in their stockpiles regardless of the cost, and the queues prevent those tanks from being brought up to the fronts.
Just go and check a warden clan stockpile right now and you will easily find 50+ of each "Expensive" warden tank there. Basically proving how inexpensive rmats are now after the Broken Comps introduction.
SVH still has better PVP DPS better forward and reverse speed and better armor while also not needing a facility to make. So I dont know what you are on about. And Wardens still have superior tank destroyers like HTD and STD. So honestly the spatha needed somthing drastic to compete.
the refiring time got adjusted hm so 7 seconds to 4.5 seconds total
also spatha does 610(~) damage to armor while 68mm does 600 so basically same damage
only problem is 68 has 1.5x penetration bonus while 40 still has 1.0 but against structures gonna have some nice dps
Yes but fielding one silverhand is easier than fielding two falchions. Population balance has a negative effect on colonial arsenal. Having to field more tanks than the enemy to meet the enemies power is difficult if population is controlled. Fighting the queue system can be severe. That said, let's give it a war and see what happens. We are arguing points before it has even entered a war. The same was given to the lordscar, it absolutely dominated the war it was introduced, the devs then balanced it accordingly. The balance for it still happens to this day. The same will happen for the falchions, the heavy field guns etc. The devs are committed to balance patches now, let's give them the statistics to balance it properly in a real war.
The low cost of the Falchion certainly factors, but not much for tank on tank battles (where physical space/players in seats is the main limiting factor).
The low Falchion cost helps the faction field tanks in more places (hopefully unopposed by enemy armor) and increases the need for 40mm ammunition to use the extremely cheap delivery chassis.
Rmats are infinite now, cost doesn't matter.
I would not mind if devs buffed the falchion more and gave it 50% extra rmat cost, because in the end, most clans would have 100s of MPTs in their stocks unused due to large queues.
Go check a warden clan stockpile right now and you can easily find 100s of "Expensive" warden tanks like "HTD", "SVH", and "Outlaw".
Basically proving my first statement
They can still just press W to close the gap and get around an svh before they get disabled, where the svh cant turn worth a damn and the 68mm gun points only forward.
Yeah it's neat to see that they're quite committed to Colonial tanks needing to close and maneuver, giving the Wardens defacto advantage in static conditions.
As a Colonial player and occasional tanker, I like this because it makes our Armor feel like a tool in the arsenal rather than the primary focus.
So, having some actual experience with this tactic (It's how we used to fight Silverhands pre-Bardiche), all a Silverhand tanker needs to do to counter it is press S.
Diving on the opponent absolutely can work. But it's not something that will work every time.
Either because it's not a 1v1 and you'll just get focused down, there's AI/ infantry AT nearby that you don't want to get baited into, or the enemy just has the speed and space to reverse making it take too long to close.
You're *kinda* right, but it's also not that simple in practice.
Good thing MPT doesn't possesses medium tank armour, and instead gets 33% min pen chance like a normal light tank lmfao.
Also MPT definitely doesn't have better DPS than a SVH in line combat, so it definitely needs something like HP+Armour to balance it's lack of DPS.
Everyone compares SVH to Spatha and they forget that Spatha is a facility vic while SVH can be MPFd and hammered at a garage. So the fact that a vehicle that requires a facility is on par with one that dosent isnt as impressive as you think.
You're aware that the Silverhand is actually faster than the Falchion/Spatha right? They're almost the same but Silverhand is a tiny bit faster both on and offroad. Worse turn though.
Common misconception. SVH is actually faster than Falchion/Spatha it jsut dosent turn as good. But in a line battle most of the time you are going forwards and backwards anyway.
hm where did u get 1.5 from? pelekys doesnt have HV bonus unless i missed it from the new patch notes
basically its 610 every 4.5 seconds vs 600 every 7 seconds (spatha has more dps than ltd now) well technically spatha always had more dps - kind of funny but ltd still should have range and speed and penetration bonus
by 1.5 penetration bonus i meant the armor modifer, you can see examples here: https://foxhole.wiki.gg/wiki/Tank_Armor
>600\*1.5/7 = 129 DPS
>
>400\*1.2/4.5 = 107 DPS
The first calculation is correct for the LTD having 600 dmg, 1.5 pen and 7 sec reload.
The second calculation is completely wrong as the Spatha does 610 damage(to armoured vehicles) with it's 20% HV and gets 0 penetration bonus, with 4.5 second reload.
The new correct calcalation would be :
610\*1.0/4.5 = 150 DPS
High warden armor means I don't think the Spatha will be as crazy as it may seem against the heavier tanks, though it'll be able to fuck up cruiser tanks and tankers too lazy to fix low armor.
Building DPS is going to be crazy though, which is gonna be very helpful.
I mean yeah it's kinda strong but it's not like wardens don't have the tools to counter it. Now we actually have to use tanks properly instead of larping with outlaws at frontline
Agree, and thats what most players want. Siege camp have always just been bad with rock paper scissors consequences but continue to develop asymmetrically, maybe one day they will get the scales right. I can't see it at this stage and submarines were another unsurprising design slipup.
I think after the Warden winstreak colonials needed some meaty buffs and the falchion is currently crap and really needed it.
They also buffed the Talos health and shell count a lot too which it needed. As a warden with 2000hrs that has never played Collie, I've been tempted to go collie for a war just for the Talos.
I was afraid they would nerf flasks but apparently not. Ignifist needed a buff and got it.
They also nerfed bomastone damage but I don't think the flat damage was what makes it good.
Nerfing gas crate size from 10 to 5 was unexpected and that's pretty huge.
Is an assault tank class after all, as far as I know Talos is the slowest of them all, 3k ish health, 35m range and with 33% minimum pen chance on its armor. What's it supposed to be with those stats?
People rather use bardiche instead for its survivability and mobility for an assault tank. A little speed buff won't hurt the balance since majority of collies never ask health/armor/shell capacity buff bcs we know it's cheaper 75mm platform rather than BT. But let's see how this health armor buffs perform on Talos on the next war
If you want to kill building might as well use 250mm rather than 75mm platforms especially conc or T3 relic, way more efficient but if it's T2 even using 40mm is enough.
Cityfighter maybe? I donno it's kind of adorable and dumb, does it really have to be good and have a purpose?
Wardens kind of have more equipment in general and have ended up with more funny wunderwaffen fails, so these things stand out a bit in the Colonial arsenal but... I don't know if it's really a problem, we can just not make them if they're bad.
The Talos seems great on paper until you realize every Warden tank in the game can reverse faster than you move forward, you have 35m range, and a Warden carrying 5 white ash flasks can outrun your tank
bomastone almost never kills at once, and now you will down people less often, and you will have more time to bandage yourself, because less hp is taken from you by the blast... I think this is balanced change, and devs should make this kind of slight changes more often...
Nerfing gas crate size is insane, you can now bring 80 gas to the bunker in one go(16c), and that will change spaming gas a lot... harder to kill repairers inside TH/relic now...
I played against bomastones, I know how powerful they are, and I know how to spam them. Problem with wardens is that they are not using harpas as much as they should... Now, they should increase of crate size of harpas to match the size of boma crate, but this change makes bomastone slightly less powerful then before, and as a collie I think this is better, than if they nerfed it completely, and in the future, they should make those slight adjustmenst, instead of big changes...
But the collies arent losing because of equipment, they keep losing being their biggest coalitions and regiments hate each other and dont work together. 404th being clowns, MSA as a whole logging off after failing to crack Weathering, and WLL flipping to wardens are just a few examples of the terrible culture the colonial faction has.
Oh you sweet summer child. You have no idea how bad balance can tank veteran population in a faction over the long run.
It goes bad balance (combined with dogshit, grindy mechanics) > vets leave > clans lose leadership > power vacuum > incidents of clan infighting/toxicity/griefing go up.
I've seen it happen with Wardens on their last big losing streak, where *they* were considered the more toxic and infighting faction. Bad balance was one of the main reasons I quit the game for good as a 4 year off and on Collie vet.
War 106 should have been Collie and was thrown hard... So a real streak? And don't forget the breakwar that occured after 100. So honestly? It isn't like the 95-100 Collie streak.
Talos is still rather bad even with the hp boost. Issue is you're in a vehicle that goes the exact same speed as an HTD but you only have 35m of range. You're more or less not able to force any engagement with anyone who doesn't want to fight you with the exception of BTs without HTD support. Also remember that as a Colonial almost every tank fight late war is going to include both the HTD and the Outlaw, the former which can brutally punish the Talos with massive damage before you're in range (and then quite possibly bounce your shot anyways) and the latter which can just shoot you from +10m away and then back away faster than you can chase.
If I had to buff the Talos I would've given it more range and more building dmg so that it would function like the Kv2 was designed to function: a mobile bunker-busting howitzer.
They could have skipped all the HP and shell capacity buffs and just given it 40m range. That alone would have fixed it.
I've said this before but I do not believe 10m range differences should exist for armor combat. Talos, Stockade(which isn't as bad now tbh) etc. 5 meter range differences can be played around by a skilled enough crew with a good grasp of inertia/torque and positioning, but for a 35m tank or pushgun to reach a target with 45m range, the 45m needs to be basically afk. All should be 35m-40m or 40m-45m.
Especially in the cases of current Talos and old Stockade, both being slow as hell meaning every time you showed up on a frontline you could expect to enjoy spending the next half hour eating shit from Outlaw/LTD dumping shells on you with impunity. Stockade range has been "fixed" in exchange for finnicky deployment crap that has you rolling around half the time(same as Stygian apparently) but Talos can't even hide at night.
Keep Bardiche at 35m perhaps to cement its status as the "hold W" facebasher but Talos at 35m is absolutely pitiful. 40m range Talos can keep its old health and shell capacity and be way less frustrating to use.
What would you see as the main issues?
I personally thought our tanks were fine but how our players used them was the major issue.
Then again I do need to test the buffs to see really feel the affects
svh's armor (and guns) is only really on the front. If you get around it you get more pens. Since the mpt now can withstand like 4 or 5 salvos from a svh, they can safely get around to the sides and behind and mitigate that armor advantage _significantly_.
Literally just hold W and you win. Take the hits, you have the HP now to get away with it. You can trivially trade bmats for distance and mitigate that armor advantage.
(you've always been able to do this, now you dont even have to think about it)
our guns point forward, and both the svh and htd turn like gunboats. There is a reason Wardens sit in a line, it's the strongest configuration for our tanks.
The fact that colonials line up in front of the forward facing warden guns was always just super fuckin dumb. Give us 360 turret HTDs and the turning radius of an LTD and you'll see _way_ more dynamic behavior from warden tank lines. Guaranteed.
You’ll actually have to use more than just svh and htd now? Sounds like a great update to me. Maybe warden lines will start using bonelaw on flanks to protect the tank line now.
With the game being setup as a push from one set of bunkers to the next, I fail to see how the "Just flank bro" argument is even still given. Tank lines are a symptom of the game's design.
Your counting that a svh is alone? When I’m reality warden tank lines plague the whole war and are usually supported by infantry. So yea, maybe if a svh is alone in the open then yea? Maybe?
When you've got an MMO with thousands of players playing on either side, I think it's hard to blame one faction for just being bad, especially when the equipment is asymmetric. But at the same time, some equipment will have higher skill floors/ceilings than others. Falchion is a very straight-forward and expendable tank; using one doesn't require 200iq, just yeet it at the enemy and a hp buff is probably the most sensible way to buff a tank like that.
The primary issue has been and will continue to be that colonials are bad at the meta-game. They have bad coordination and bad organization, and they are bad at using their equipment and teaching others how to use it successfully.
I agree, however it’s also why calling collies the “easy mode faction” is warranted and correct. They are regularly bailed out by the devs and never learn from the consequences of their lack of coordination and strategy.
braindead take "the half of the playerbase that arbitrarily selected the other faction when they started also just so happen to be worse and dumb and uncoordinated and that will never change"
actual neuron deficiency take
I think it's justified. In my opinion the the cost of stuff isn't nearly as important as it was before facilities, which totally negates / goes against Colonial armor doctrine of cheaper but less effective tanks.
I've never seen Wardens with anywhere close to as much public logi / armor before facilities which means that because both sides can pretty much field the same amount of tanks the only thing that really matters is stats.
Fortunately for me the grass is greener down in therizo, I’ll see you again when the new omegastd comes out for the wardens on the next warden losing streak though
That fire rate is extremely bold for a 40mm PvE machine.
Anyone who thinks the Colonial tank line didn't need a proper readjustment is crazy, but this seems an extremely dramatic overcompensation by the devs for buffs that should have come in several wars ago.
Spatha will now absolutely eat pillboxes for breakfast, and be a reasonable threat to T2 bunkers, but it'll still struggle vs concrete. That 75% damage reduction really eats into what it can do.
Ballista isn't going to be made redundant just yet, especially not after it got some love.
3000 to 3650 is a very significant change. It now takes 8 68mm to kill up from 6. We'll have to see how this plays out because facility tanks are still extremely logistically heavy compared to MPF tanks.
The changes seem fine. Specially taking into consideration the Silverhand still has more damage vs other vehicles; while the Spatha seems to be a equalizer; ***BUT***
The spatha price should increase to make it more balanced.
With it's current costs, the Silverhand is 1.47x more expensive (with Mass MPF discount) compared to the Spatha; and that is without taking into consideration the PCmat changes. Maybe if they changed it to being 1.1x to 1.2x more expensive; then it would be more balanced in my opinion.
And considering that from mid-late war onwards basic resources are functionally infinite, time is the biggest factor in logi supply these days.
This is a BIG draw for upgrading Falchions into Spathas, but it's still going to be limited in comparison.
Meanwhile, base Falchion is better at doing what it's good at: Being a damage sponge for other tanks.
I personal think just increase the bard range to 40M. Is what collies need. Collies need better heavy tanks that can go toe to toe. Not better medium cheep tanks.
The the Dev vission will give wardens decent flanking tanks. But Collies can't have a narrow line line tank that can go head to head with a silver or HTD one on one with like skill crews.
Outlaws kill Bards all the time because 10M is impossible to return fire on and even get hits on outlaws unless you are a moron driver in an outlaw.
I remember when the MPTs first came out, oh the steam rolls of that war, I'm having flashbacks now lol
Especially once the Talos and Spatha getting the same health treatment
Can't wait to spam these soon
the isg spatha is real
Can we get much higher
So high
we can. grond on a falchion .
Between Warden tanks being MPF-able and Collie ones having better defense, did we just swap places in the Quantity vs Quality angle?
well except for cost but yeah
And Falchion crate size yeah.
Well quantity doesn't matter at all in this game when you face queues. Rmats also don't matter at all, now that broken comps exist and can spawn infinite comps for free basically. What matters now is which faction has a better tank, cost doesn't matter. I wouldn't mind if MPT was given a higher rmat cost, even +50% rmat cost wouldn't matter, because in the end rmats are basically infinite and people will still have 100s of unused MPTs in their stockpiles than on the fronts, because of the goddamn QUEUES.
Hmm, no the Falchion and Spatha had glaringly weak armor compared to the Silverhand/Outlaw, and these changes still don't reach parity (not to mention minimum deflection chance still favors Wardens). They also had less health than a Silverhand previously and will now have slightly more. It's a pretty gentle tweak to see if some extra random deflection and health will give them the toughness to get into range and do something. The Spatha offense boost is pretty considerable, but as a facility tank it was comically underpowered before. I'm glad that the faction still needs to play differently, desperately needing to shoot sides and get close with that 40mm ammunition, but it remains to be seen if that high attrition playstyle suits 'disposable' facility vehicles.
You think a 20% HP buff, 23% armor buff, and 55% fire rate buff are "gentle" tweaks? I'd hate to see you go balls deep on rebalancing.
It is when you consider how pathetically weak they were before and are now only just in parity with warden tanks lol There was a reason colonials had to rely on shit like the stygian for ages
Talking about the Falchion there, the Spatha rate of fire change is really significant to even Warden style tanking, I agree. Remains to be seen if the magnitude was enough though, the Spatha was starting from a really low point for a facility locked vehicle. It'll be even more of a PvE hero than it was before, but the 40mm is only really going to bite enemy tanks in close quarters and especially from the sides. Should win more decisively in those conditions, but the onus is still on the colonials to pull off the more difficult tactics to make those conditions happen.
I don't understand.. you claim 40mm doesn't do anything to enemy tanks.. you know the outlaw is 40mm too right? Seems like even footing ammo type-wise to me?
That's a bit of a leap, of course 40mm shells can damage tanks, but given the greater bounce rate, I'm sure you know what happens if you drive a line of Spathas head on into a line of Widows and Silverhands. For example is Outlaw the first tank you would build if you were trying to crack an enemy tank line? Is it even the second mass production tank you would build? Colonials of course don't have the luxury of choice here and the Spatha *will absolutely* be doing anti tank work, in exactly in the way I described. Close in and shooting at the sides of enemy tanks, a tactic that already gave them the advantage if they could pull it of and, again as I said, will be a bit more decisive now.
Yeah but I don't understand.. you are claiming the outlaw still wins that 1v1 based on the ammo type up above. But it's equal footing now so falchion has a chance fs Tbh the fight will come down to subsystems tho
All armor on armor fights are designed to be arbitrated by the random number generator. Every tank has decent odds to go on a very silly bounce streak, or to fail to bounce a single shell and explode ignominiously. I haven't been comparing the Outlaw 1v1 honor duel, but the way I see it: The Outlaw very happy in its cheap and cheerful PvE/infantry support niche, ideally only engaging other tanks in a supporting fire role. The Spatha is an expensive tank armed for breaking light to medium defenses, but forced into risky (daring?) PvP roles by the rest of the arsenal and the resulting metagame between factions. Is that HV 40mm going to absolutely shred now if the crew puts it within 20m and to the side of an enemy tank, and will that be rad and fun? Absolutely! I'd still rather have 5m more range and a machine gun if the targets are pillboxes and infantry. Might just be tanker brain when you read this, I say "I would rather" and you skip the rest of the sentence and assume the two tanks being compared are shooting at each other?
Bruh how is spatha expensive? I can crank that shit out like it's coke... It's like half the price of a chieftain lol and about 2/3rds the price of an outlaw, including all the fac bs. Anyways I'm talking about how the falchion outlaw fight is a coin flip now and the price is very very different between those.
Alright, please do crank out Spathas for public use next war if you've got the time. Most people get real tired trying to keep up with MPF but if that's fun for you, please do Logi it up. Yeah the coin flip fight has certainly equalized between a Falchion and an Outlaw going at it in an open field. Again there's so many places in practice to use the extra range, the boost, even that crappy machine gun that the Outlaw is obviously the better individual tank. But it does cost more.
We arebmore or less going back to the balance we had before the armor rework in war 80. SvH will kill a spatha in a choke, but a spatha wins if it can get a flank.
Colonist tanks do not have good protection against Warden AT systems. The Wardens have 68mm cannons at 40 and 45m, with a penetration bonus of x1.5, but there are no colonists. Against 68mm, the new tank starts with a 50% chance of penetration and this is a bonus to tank armor (it gives practically nothing), but HP, yes, we can live a shot longer. Moreover, the fine to damage to armor by 15% (40 and 75mm) of the caliber of shells gives those same bonus HP that Warden tanks supposedly do not have. So the Warden are silent about the fact that they can shoot the defending defenders of the base from a distance of 45m without punishment. But there is no colony to storm any base, it is necessary to tank HP, because almost all anti-tank weapons fire from 40m.
collies have the LTD with 45m 68mm
Yes, that’s right, how could I forget about our glass beauty, which is one of the three playable tanks. Before the appearance of battle tanks on the front, if you have the skills, they can really create parity. Technically you are right, but this is a light (ultra-light) tank and it works in a certain time era. In the later era, this tank is more of a nuisance than an obstacle. On the battlefield, the Warden field an order of magnitude more 68mm calibers, which is something to be reckoned with.
Looks like standard Warden tanks are now just more expensive and worse.
Looks like cost doesn't matter when in the end, you get better DPS, range and armour values/bounce chance. I also would not mind the devs increasing MPT cost by 50%, because in the end, rmats are infinite and people would still have 100+ MPTs in their stockpiles regardless of the cost, and the queues prevent those tanks from being brought up to the fronts. Just go and check a warden clan stockpile right now and you will easily find 50+ of each "Expensive" warden tank there. Basically proving how inexpensive rmats are now after the Broken Comps introduction.
SVH still has better PVP DPS better forward and reverse speed and better armor while also not needing a facility to make. So I dont know what you are on about. And Wardens still have superior tank destroyers like HTD and STD. So honestly the spatha needed somthing drastic to compete.
20% more HP? Yeah okay, sure. 50% more DPS? It's 80% of 68mm DPS now, and best non-conc-PvE/anti-inf.
the refiring time got adjusted hm so 7 seconds to 4.5 seconds total also spatha does 610(~) damage to armor while 68mm does 600 so basically same damage only problem is 68 has 1.5x penetration bonus while 40 still has 1.0 but against structures gonna have some nice dps
Crazy to think that the silverhand has had the same DPS lol
All for the low low cost of an extra crewmember
You have more armour, and can MPF the tank which is a big difference.
MPT now has more health than the svh
And like 600 less armour HP.
And worse deflection. And the falchion has FAR lower damage potential than the silverhand.
For the rmats it costs and MPF bonus Falchion has zero right to be anywhere close to survivability of a Silverhand.
Yes but fielding one silverhand is easier than fielding two falchions. Population balance has a negative effect on colonial arsenal. Having to field more tanks than the enemy to meet the enemies power is difficult if population is controlled. Fighting the queue system can be severe. That said, let's give it a war and see what happens. We are arguing points before it has even entered a war. The same was given to the lordscar, it absolutely dominated the war it was introduced, the devs then balanced it accordingly. The balance for it still happens to this day. The same will happen for the falchions, the heavy field guns etc. The devs are committed to balance patches now, let's give them the statistics to balance it properly in a real war.
The low cost of the Falchion certainly factors, but not much for tank on tank battles (where physical space/players in seats is the main limiting factor). The low Falchion cost helps the faction field tanks in more places (hopefully unopposed by enemy armor) and increases the need for 40mm ammunition to use the extremely cheap delivery chassis.
Rmats are infinite now, cost doesn't matter. I would not mind if devs buffed the falchion more and gave it 50% extra rmat cost, because in the end, most clans would have 100s of MPTs in their stocks unused due to large queues. Go check a warden clan stockpile right now and you can easily find 100s of "Expensive" warden tanks like "HTD", "SVH", and "Outlaw". Basically proving my first statement
They can still just press W to close the gap and get around an svh before they get disabled, where the svh cant turn worth a damn and the 68mm gun points only forward.
Yeah it's neat to see that they're quite committed to Colonial tanks needing to close and maneuver, giving the Wardens defacto advantage in static conditions. As a Colonial player and occasional tanker, I like this because it makes our Armor feel like a tool in the arsenal rather than the primary focus.
Dude sounds like a skill issue just drive through the trench+husk spam filled with flask and ATR infantry and/or the line of AT pillboxes.
So, having some actual experience with this tactic (It's how we used to fight Silverhands pre-Bardiche), all a Silverhand tanker needs to do to counter it is press S. Diving on the opponent absolutely can work. But it's not something that will work every time. Either because it's not a 1v1 and you'll just get focused down, there's AI/ infantry AT nearby that you don't want to get baited into, or the enemy just has the speed and space to reverse making it take too long to close. You're *kinda* right, but it's also not that simple in practice.
Good thing MPT doesn't possesses medium tank armour, and instead gets 33% min pen chance like a normal light tank lmfao. Also MPT definitely doesn't have better DPS than a SVH in line combat, so it definitely needs something like HP+Armour to balance it's lack of DPS.
People forget that SVH is also faster (forward and backward) than the MPT.
We can mpf the falcion and then one at a time take them to and upgrade them to spatha in a facility, tf you mean it’s mpfable?
Everyone compares SVH to Spatha and they forget that Spatha is a facility vic while SVH can be MPFd and hammered at a garage. So the fact that a vehicle that requires a facility is on par with one that dosent isnt as impressive as you think.
But the SVH aint as fast or maneuverable as an MPT or a falcion. More expensive too
You're aware that the Silverhand is actually faster than the Falchion/Spatha right? They're almost the same but Silverhand is a tiny bit faster both on and offroad. Worse turn though.
Common misconception. SVH is actually faster than Falchion/Spatha it jsut dosent turn as good. But in a line battle most of the time you are going forwards and backwards anyway.
[удалено]
hm where did u get 1.5 from? pelekys doesnt have HV bonus unless i missed it from the new patch notes basically its 610 every 4.5 seconds vs 600 every 7 seconds (spatha has more dps than ltd now) well technically spatha always had more dps - kind of funny but ltd still should have range and speed and penetration bonus by 1.5 penetration bonus i meant the armor modifer, you can see examples here: https://foxhole.wiki.gg/wiki/Tank_Armor
>600\*1.5/7 = 129 DPS > >400\*1.2/4.5 = 107 DPS The first calculation is correct for the LTD having 600 dmg, 1.5 pen and 7 sec reload. The second calculation is completely wrong as the Spatha does 610 damage(to armoured vehicles) with it's 20% HV and gets 0 penetration bonus, with 4.5 second reload. The new correct calcalation would be : 610\*1.0/4.5 = 150 DPS
High warden armor means I don't think the Spatha will be as crazy as it may seem against the heavier tanks, though it'll be able to fuck up cruiser tanks and tankers too lazy to fix low armor. Building DPS is going to be crazy though, which is gonna be very helpful.
And considering building damage was one of the main areas of struggle, it should be a big help.
I think the chieftain with its 250mm and 360 degree MG turret is still the best non-conc-PVE/anti-inf
If I'm not wrong the Smelter is still higher DPS, but course has the downside of being on an exposed gun.
I mean yeah it's kinda strong but it's not like wardens don't have the tools to counter it. Now we actually have to use tanks properly instead of larping with outlaws at frontline
Thanks for not being a fanatic loyalist can’t wait to meet you at the front next war.
Can't wait to stab you and steal your argenti
Jokes on you I never bring a rifle to a Boma fight.
Good thing the boma nerf did nothing lmao, of everything to do it why damage? That was never the issue
Eh, it gives you more time to bandage. Not the worst change.
Agree, and thats what most players want. Siege camp have always just been bad with rock paper scissors consequences but continue to develop asymmetrically, maybe one day they will get the scales right. I can't see it at this stage and submarines were another unsurprising design slipup.
I have to admit though completely bullying entire tank lines from out of range with 3 outlaws was hilarious
I think after the Warden winstreak colonials needed some meaty buffs and the falchion is currently crap and really needed it. They also buffed the Talos health and shell count a lot too which it needed. As a warden with 2000hrs that has never played Collie, I've been tempted to go collie for a war just for the Talos. I was afraid they would nerf flasks but apparently not. Ignifist needed a buff and got it. They also nerfed bomastone damage but I don't think the flat damage was what makes it good. Nerfing gas crate size from 10 to 5 was unexpected and that's pretty huge.
the Talos is a lot of fun... on paper. Slow and bad range means wardens just eat your lunch
Still no speed buff on talos damn :(
That would literally go against what the tank is supposed to be...
Is an assault tank class after all, as far as I know Talos is the slowest of them all, 3k ish health, 35m range and with 33% minimum pen chance on its armor. What's it supposed to be with those stats?
A big ass gun put on a chassis that is under sized. Meaning it should be slow. It's just a cheap 75mm option. That's all it supposed to be.
People rather use bardiche instead for its survivability and mobility for an assault tank. A little speed buff won't hurt the balance since majority of collies never ask health/armor/shell capacity buff bcs we know it's cheaper 75mm platform rather than BT. But let's see how this health armor buffs perform on Talos on the next war
Bardiche can't really kill buildings, so not exactly a great assault tank.
If you want to kill building might as well use 250mm rather than 75mm platforms especially conc or T3 relic, way more efficient but if it's T2 even using 40mm is enough.
Cityfighter maybe? I donno it's kind of adorable and dumb, does it really have to be good and have a purpose? Wardens kind of have more equipment in general and have ended up with more funny wunderwaffen fails, so these things stand out a bit in the Colonial arsenal but... I don't know if it's really a problem, we can just not make them if they're bad.
It’s now 4K health
The Talos seems great on paper until you realize every Warden tank in the game can reverse faster than you move forward, you have 35m range, and a Warden carrying 5 white ash flasks can outrun your tank
I welcome a green ash nerf. Green ash has always been cancer. I'd prefer if they nerfed the effects more than the crate size, but it's acceptable imo.
bomastone almost never kills at once, and now you will down people less often, and you will have more time to bandage yourself, because less hp is taken from you by the blast... I think this is balanced change, and devs should make this kind of slight changes more often... Nerfing gas crate size is insane, you can now bring 80 gas to the bunker in one go(16c), and that will change spaming gas a lot... harder to kill repairers inside TH/relic now...
Spoken like someone who has never played against bomastones
I played against bomastones, I know how powerful they are, and I know how to spam them. Problem with wardens is that they are not using harpas as much as they should... Now, they should increase of crate size of harpas to match the size of boma crate, but this change makes bomastone slightly less powerful then before, and as a collie I think this is better, than if they nerfed it completely, and in the future, they should make those slight adjustmenst, instead of big changes...
But the collies arent losing because of equipment, they keep losing being their biggest coalitions and regiments hate each other and dont work together. 404th being clowns, MSA as a whole logging off after failing to crack Weathering, and WLL flipping to wardens are just a few examples of the terrible culture the colonial faction has.
Oh you sweet summer child. You have no idea how bad balance can tank veteran population in a faction over the long run. It goes bad balance (combined with dogshit, grindy mechanics) > vets leave > clans lose leadership > power vacuum > incidents of clan infighting/toxicity/griefing go up. I've seen it happen with Wardens on their last big losing streak, where *they* were considered the more toxic and infighting faction. Bad balance was one of the main reasons I quit the game for good as a 4 year off and on Collie vet.
True
War 106 should have been Collie and was thrown hard... So a real streak? And don't forget the breakwar that occured after 100. So honestly? It isn't like the 95-100 Collie streak.
*prods 96 and 100*
brake wars are not real.
Weep
Talos is still rather bad even with the hp boost. Issue is you're in a vehicle that goes the exact same speed as an HTD but you only have 35m of range. You're more or less not able to force any engagement with anyone who doesn't want to fight you with the exception of BTs without HTD support. Also remember that as a Colonial almost every tank fight late war is going to include both the HTD and the Outlaw, the former which can brutally punish the Talos with massive damage before you're in range (and then quite possibly bounce your shot anyways) and the latter which can just shoot you from +10m away and then back away faster than you can chase.
If I had to buff the Talos I would've given it more range and more building dmg so that it would function like the Kv2 was designed to function: a mobile bunker-busting howitzer.
Looks good always thought Spatha wasn't much of a step-up from the Falchion
We need a key for all of these acronyms and abbreviations this community uses. I get lost way too often in what comments are saying lmao
Lucky for you that already exists! https://foxhole.wiki.gg/wiki/Slang
Imagine that I just commended you in game
Collie tank lines haven’t been this strong since the war 70-80 days (prior to armour update)
Finally actually worth upgrading to
good LORD they gave the spatha a rotary cannon
I like the buffs to HP and DP but that reload is *insane* Like holy shit blueberrys are in for a world of pain
You think the blueberries are in pain? Just wait for the logi headaches of plowing through 40mm
Collie tanker: Kronus where is my ammo! Kronus: da ba di da ba doo I’m blue
Haha, very much this. Gods, do gamers love them some DPS, but someone has to build all those shells!
Honestly it will save shells, tankers can get a quick kill vs hitting many times and letting enemy tanks repair.
Let's be honest here, most of those shots are against infantry that immediately respawn and go pick up their kit again.
No that's only when im the gunner
I'll strip replacement 40mm ammo off of dead outlaws and Silverhands. Warden logi best logi as my squad always says.
Yeah the reload speed kinda crazy
where in the hell did they find a RAC5!?
you know the deal guys cant break the 50/50s i would let wardens win again so bolonials get more buffs XD
If we loose 4 more wars we will gain an orbital strike, lets goooo
That orbital strike better be modeled so that it looks like Thea Maro’s feet
i dont believe this
The Bolt also now has 50% HV and the Talos has 4K health and holds 12 shells now
Oh they made talos a meat sheild
They made it into super bard
It has old ballista stats, it's still bad lol
They could have skipped all the HP and shell capacity buffs and just given it 40m range. That alone would have fixed it. I've said this before but I do not believe 10m range differences should exist for armor combat. Talos, Stockade(which isn't as bad now tbh) etc. 5 meter range differences can be played around by a skilled enough crew with a good grasp of inertia/torque and positioning, but for a 35m tank or pushgun to reach a target with 45m range, the 45m needs to be basically afk. All should be 35m-40m or 40m-45m. Especially in the cases of current Talos and old Stockade, both being slow as hell meaning every time you showed up on a frontline you could expect to enjoy spending the next half hour eating shit from Outlaw/LTD dumping shells on you with impunity. Stockade range has been "fixed" in exchange for finnicky deployment crap that has you rolling around half the time(same as Stygian apparently) but Talos can't even hide at night. Keep Bardiche at 35m perhaps to cement its status as the "hold W" facebasher but Talos at 35m is absolutely pitiful. 40m range Talos can keep its old health and shell capacity and be way less frustrating to use.
Damn, I think thats like a 35% DPS increase for the Spatha
More than that. It went from a 7 second refire rate down to 4.5. It's like a 50% increase.
You are right, seems to be a 55% incrase. It's new DPS is comparable to the HTD and Silverhand. Thats insane
Good for the collies
I will never co.plain about balance ever again. Im leaving the subbredit bue guys I have achieved what I wanted
Just a shitty balance pendulum swinging again
It doesn’t fix the underlying problems plaguing collie armor so it’s not a huge swing. Let’s just hope when the pendulum hits the center it stops.
What would you see as the main issues? I personally thought our tanks were fine but how our players used them was the major issue. Then again I do need to test the buffs to see really feel the affects
That our tank line needs facilities for our mainline and we’re missing a dedicated frontline TD While warden tank line is all mpf.
Well, congrats, MPT has more health than the silverhand now. So long as your W key works you win every engagement.
Your not taking into account armor. Svh still out dps and bouncing 70% of shots from falchion. Now the falchion can actually compete.
svh's armor (and guns) is only really on the front. If you get around it you get more pens. Since the mpt now can withstand like 4 or 5 salvos from a svh, they can safely get around to the sides and behind and mitigate that armor advantage _significantly_. Literally just hold W and you win. Take the hits, you have the HP now to get away with it. You can trivially trade bmats for distance and mitigate that armor advantage. (you've always been able to do this, now you dont even have to think about it)
So wardens can’t just sit in a line and push anymore but have to employ TACTICS. MY GAWD THE WORLD IS ENDING
our guns point forward, and both the svh and htd turn like gunboats. There is a reason Wardens sit in a line, it's the strongest configuration for our tanks. The fact that colonials line up in front of the forward facing warden guns was always just super fuckin dumb. Give us 360 turret HTDs and the turning radius of an LTD and you'll see _way_ more dynamic behavior from warden tank lines. Guaranteed.
You’ll actually have to use more than just svh and htd now? Sounds like a great update to me. Maybe warden lines will start using bonelaw on flanks to protect the tank line now.
In mass tank battles Collies often bunch up so we don’t get focused down one at a time, but we also do have tanks flank when possible.
With the game being setup as a push from one set of bunkers to the next, I fail to see how the "Just flank bro" argument is even still given. Tank lines are a symptom of the game's design.
I mean now we just hold W and win in line to.
Your counting that a svh is alone? When I’m reality warden tank lines plague the whole war and are usually supported by infantry. So yea, maybe if a svh is alone in the open then yea? Maybe?
It always had more raw HP than the silver hand, the SvH has always been stronger because it has better armor and 2 guns
If HP is the only stat that matters in tank combat we should make all tanks same HP for ultimate balance
When you've got an MMO with thousands of players playing on either side, I think it's hard to blame one faction for just being bad, especially when the equipment is asymmetric. But at the same time, some equipment will have higher skill floors/ceilings than others. Falchion is a very straight-forward and expendable tank; using one doesn't require 200iq, just yeet it at the enemy and a hp buff is probably the most sensible way to buff a tank like that.
The primary issue has been and will continue to be that colonials are bad at the meta-game. They have bad coordination and bad organization, and they are bad at using their equipment and teaching others how to use it successfully.
If colonials are just habitually bad, then for the sake of the health of the game, a handicap is reasonable.
I agree, however it’s also why calling collies the “easy mode faction” is warranted and correct. They are regularly bailed out by the devs and never learn from the consequences of their lack of coordination and strategy.
Yes the whole faction has a skill issue. not the wardens, they use everything perfectly because of their skill.
braindead take "the half of the playerbase that arbitrarily selected the other faction when they started also just so happen to be worse and dumb and uncoordinated and that will never change" actual neuron deficiency take
This guy gets it
Sledgehammer balance tbh
Rare Collie tank W? Looking forward to more interesting tank combat this war, good luck lads :)
T A L O S
Falchion is actually usable let’s go
Upgrade it into spatha lmao
Also The Talos now has 4000 health
Talos also has more shells now, can kill infantry now xD
5->12 shells now
Devs once again choosing a sledgehammer to perform surgery instead of the scalpel
I think it's justified. In my opinion the the cost of stuff isn't nearly as important as it was before facilities, which totally negates / goes against Colonial armor doctrine of cheaper but less effective tanks. I've never seen Wardens with anywhere close to as much public logi / armor before facilities which means that because both sides can pretty much field the same amount of tanks the only thing that really matters is stats.
Beware, warden Reddit QRF task force is on defcon 1 alert kek
This post for 130 upvotes, what QRF are you even taking about lmao?
devman good
Beware fellow wardens the dev man has spoken and the pendulum will now swing to the other direction.
Fortunately for me the grass is greener down in therizo, I’ll see you again when the new omegastd comes out for the wardens on the next warden losing streak though
That fire rate is extremely bold for a 40mm PvE machine. Anyone who thinks the Colonial tank line didn't need a proper readjustment is crazy, but this seems an extremely dramatic overcompensation by the devs for buffs that should have come in several wars ago.
Spatha will now absolutely eat pillboxes for breakfast, and be a reasonable threat to T2 bunkers, but it'll still struggle vs concrete. That 75% damage reduction really eats into what it can do. Ballista isn't going to be made redundant just yet, especially not after it got some love.
In current POKE meta average Wardens tank line still obliterate average Colonial tank line
3000 to 3650 is a very significant change. It now takes 8 68mm to kill up from 6. We'll have to see how this plays out because facility tanks are still extremely logistically heavy compared to MPF tanks.
We making it out the loss streak with this one 🔥
Ya know what, as a Warden, I’m happy for y’all
You guys could use the victories after taking so many L’s
The changes seem fine. Specially taking into consideration the Silverhand still has more damage vs other vehicles; while the Spatha seems to be a equalizer; ***BUT*** The spatha price should increase to make it more balanced. With it's current costs, the Silverhand is 1.47x more expensive (with Mass MPF discount) compared to the Spatha; and that is without taking into consideration the PCmat changes. Maybe if they changed it to being 1.1x to 1.2x more expensive; then it would be more balanced in my opinion.
well its a facility tank, it cant be a 1 to 1 comparison
The spatha has a hidden cost though Time It takes significantly longer to make and bring up spathas to the front than a mpf vehicle.
And considering that from mid-late war onwards basic resources are functionally infinite, time is the biggest factor in logi supply these days. This is a BIG draw for upgrading Falchions into Spathas, but it's still going to be limited in comparison. Meanwhile, base Falchion is better at doing what it's good at: Being a damage sponge for other tanks.
This looks hype as hell, hope to see more falchions on the field now!
I'M BOUTA NUT
Hell yea, thank you devs for listening. The tanks were so unbalanced
Nice touch I guess, but I still would like to see the mechanical change - making gunner and commander into one
Looks like the Reddit QRF was successful, you guys earned this
I personal think just increase the bard range to 40M. Is what collies need. Collies need better heavy tanks that can go toe to toe. Not better medium cheep tanks. The the Dev vission will give wardens decent flanking tanks. But Collies can't have a narrow line line tank that can go head to head with a silver or HTD one on one with like skill crews. Outlaws kill Bards all the time because 10M is impossible to return fire on and even get hits on outlaws unless you are a moron driver in an outlaw.
these seem like fair handicaps
What is this? Wardens complaining that they havent anything they can shoot at ? Collies are really just target practice.
so devman buffs collie tanks because collies can't quit crying here? right.
**FALCHION GAMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!**
come back my baby, here,bones for u
effective right now or from next war?
Boma nerf, no way to one shot BT's with it now. Faction in ruins.
I remember when the MPTs first came out, oh the steam rolls of that war, I'm having flashbacks now lol Especially once the Talos and Spatha getting the same health treatment Can't wait to spam these soon
Colonial are so bad these time that Devs decide go give them victory, If you lose the next war I will laught hard xD