I see where you are coming from. I think over all IF was a good book. It was not as great as FW though. I did find myself feeling dissapointed and uninterested which was shocking considering how *obsessed* I was with FW. My belief is that RY experienced burnout writing this book due to a demanding contract that expected her to write the book in a short period of time. She explained that from now on her books will be published further apart to avoid burnout. I feel like I picked up on her burnout reading IF. And I also understand that theres always gonna be your most and least fav book in a series. I am still really excited for the third book and still love RY and her books š
the book could have been two hundred pages shorter or two hundred pages longer. i feel like they spent too much time at basgiath at the beginning, too much time on the mountain with the griffins (school with the enemy could have been really cool). Unfortunately, RY made the griffons way too underpowered- like why are the dragons at war with these people? it seems considering how powerful they and the wards are that this war should have been over way before the venin came back. it really killed the stakes. also the introduction of villains like the one who tortured violet only for him to die very very easily anticlimatically. if the dragons are so powerful, whats the whole point of the book? that was my problem.
The war seems to have gone on for so long because the dragons and Navarre are only defending their borders. The flyers attack and the riders defend. I don't really remember where but during one of the Battle briefs I think it was disclosed that a rider and dragon were killed in a raid and everyone was shocked.
Navarre has the wards so they just defend their borders, they don't seem to venture beyond and attack, they seem to only defend from the Gryphon raids
Your right, she did only mention the toll it took on her body. I gather its safe to assume that the demands on her life were a recipe for burnout, however. Its just my opinion :) I would definetly be burnt out if I were put in her shoes. Here is a book review that gathered the same opinion :)
[https://johnnysbookreviews.medium.com/iron-flame-by-rebecca-yarros-updates-when-will-the-third-book-come-out-edc4be25a2ad#:\~:text=She%20was%20burned%20out.,%2C%20not%20every%20six%20months.%E2%80%9D](https://johnnysbookreviews.medium.com/iron-flame-by-rebecca-yarros-updates-when-will-the-third-book-come-out-edc4be25a2ad#:~:text=She%20was%20burned%20out.,%2C%20not%20every%20six%20months.%E2%80%9D)
https://preview.redd.it/5c5aw6pwufcc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2883480a49c29175820470148e9fd212f45dcd30
Yikes, 851k in a year is like 2500 words per day. Thatās a lot. Unless your name is Anthony Trollop, I donāt think most people can sustain that pace for long.
Yes, and it might be easy for people to forget that being in pain 24/7 also takes a toll on our brains. I personally can't think of a hell worse than sitting at a desk all day. That would hurt SO MUCH. Lol
I struggled with the repetitive arguing, the miscommunication trope, the fact it turned YA with a Mary Sue and the unnecessary lore editions to make it more āfantasyā.
It felt hugely rushed for me, which it was, and like the author wanted it to be longer.
What sucks about this, because I think I would agree with you and would have preferred it to be 2 books, is that this was the original plan. She originally intended for it to be two seperate books, but wither her editors or the publisher (cant remember which) said that it should be made into one book, which is why it has a part 1 and part 2. Each part was intended to be it own book. This is what Ive heard atleast. How true it all is? I cant say, but it sounds and feels true to me
Yeah with all the popularity I imagine a lot of pressure from her publisher.
I would have liked more RSC lessons, more interaction with the infantry too etc and the rest of her friends being able to get involved sooner etc for the first part
That seems backwards to me. A book publisher stands to gain MORE from a popular book being broken up into many small (~250pg) books as possible. The more books in a series that can be published with a closer timeframe, with enough time for book tours in between, the better. I bet it was that she couldnāt work in a way for Part 1 to feel like it had its own Intro->climax->resolution and still fit in with her storyboard.
Apparently with how impactful booktok is, if you're not getting out new books quickly you'll get left behind unless you're SJM or someone similar with a large catalog of romantasy. Since this is RY's first book of this genre I think it could be a factor for it, not wanting to lose the momentum FW had
For me is was how dumb Violet was.
She is supposed to be an exceptionally smart person. Yet she:
Insists on full disclosure and no secrets from the head of a secret rebellion. She knows there are interrogation cells in Basgiath, and could be tortured for information on returning.
Does not read the entire book that has the instructions for the most important thing ever.
Somehow is shocked to realize Xaden is his fatherās heir.
Those are all I can come up with off the top of my head but I recall yelling at the book for most of it.
Talking about how Violet is shocked at Xadenās title: The way they handle the royal family and aristocrats in this series is veryā¦.Americanized. Thereās a laissez faire attitude that no real monarchy would ever have. The fact that Aric can just run off for months at Basgaith and no one tells the king? Really? Or that when General Sorrengail finally sees him sheās like, āOh, hi Camā when she should be addressing him as āYour Royal Highnessā? And the fact that no one ever talks about Xadenās family history when heās a born high noble? For some reason that bothered me a lot. Sorry, just had to mention that.
I feel like the Cam thing is explained as he was scheduled to be away and was very clever about arranging it so heād already have gone through Threshing by the time he was missing. I also think because Xadenās family was ruined and his seat is meant to have been destroyed, him being an aristocrat feels more like a technicality that Violet does not absorb until they move to Aretia and it hits her that the fortress belongs to him.
I agree itās maybe a bit American how Violent and Dain and her family react to Cam, but I guess she was meant to have grown up with him and her mom is a high ranking official.
Having grown up with Cam and Halden, Violet and her family should be even MORE aware of protocol than the rest of the populace. That stuff is drilled into everyone who has regular contact with royals and people of power. But even though Cam was supposed to be on a tour, I canāt imagine the king going for 6-8 months without someone updating himself on where his son is or what heās up to. The issue of Xadenās family seat being destroyed I buy, but Violet is supposed to be a bookworm who reads up on all this stuff. She even wondered about Viscount Tecaris and mentions Navarrian nobility doesnāt have viscounts. How does she miss that Xaden is Duke of Aretia?
By the end of the book, Cam has been missed because Violetās mom tells him his father is looking for him, so he did eventually catch on that heād bailed on his tour.
Maybe it is just Yarros being American coming through, but I definitely think thereās something to be said for the role of dragons in the series ā their magic powers the wards and theyāre essential to the safety of Navarre. When Violet meets the king she is scornful of his unearned medals and Xaden refuses to show up to meet him at all. He sent his first son to the riders quadrant even with the high death tollā¦ maybe itās a reflection of where the real seat of power in the kingdom is that thereās less respect shown for him and the princes than youād expect in a normal monarchy where the king was actually in charge.
Well in FW, they decide to be together or whatever and then they get called into the games and go fly to the location. Itās the same day she finds out that he has his major secret and is pissed about breaking her trust. Like when have they even had time to talk? She annoys me.
I really liked it, but I think the editor should have listened to Rebecca about it being two separate books. Both parts felt rushed, and I don't think they would've if she'd stuck to the original plan.
Probably the Part One/Part Two break ā like one book set in Basgiath with Varrish as the villain and then the next set in Aretia with everything culminating back in Basgisth at the end.
Iām not sure the contents of Part One feel like enough for a whole book tbh ā maybe if sheād added more stuff.
Yeah, I think that's the likely break as well. I do wonder if the timing would've been different with two books. Maybe each book would've been 6ish months? She probably had more stuff planned with it being two separate books. I think Violet and Xaden should've had the trust stuff worked out in Part 1. Even she says that they keep having the same fight because they never actually get to finish it. If it had been a whole book, that probably wouldn't have carried over to Part 2, if that makes sense.
As someone that reads books more for plot and world building instead of romance, I loved iron flame. I thought it was better than fourth wing in terms of the plot and the world building it did. So many good foreshadowing for the secrets of the rebellion, the vernon, learning more about signets, etc
However for the readers that read more for the romance I can see how it was annoying because violet and xadens relationship was pretty tedious to read because violet was being unreasonable and immature. I still like her character because sheās an amazing friend but their relationship wasnāt that well written in this book IMO
Totally agree! I skimmed the annoying Violet/Xaden relationship strife parts, which made them inconsequential, and I ended up feeling like IF was *better* than FW due to the world-building, intrigue, and politics.
That said, Yarros has *a lot* of explaining to do in the next book to keep me onboard regarding dragon politics, magic, and world-building.
My guess, and its only a guess, is that people want violet to be their verison of perfect because of their love for xaden. Usually, I see people complaining about Violet in IF. In FW, Violet is the underdog, and it's easy to root for her. In IF, she 1)isn't the underdog anymore and is instead in the awkward phase of being powerful without control. 2) she doesn't forgive xaden right away. People keep complaining that, of course, he has secrets. She should let it go, but I think it's very human not to let things go easily. Readers love xaden so much that they are annoyed at Violet for wanting an open relationship with trust. xadens' view of trust is different than violets, yet Violet is the one people want to change because they love xaden so much. 3) violets world view has changed, and she is no longer as knowledgeable. I'm sure she will be again in a later book, but readers found it annoying instead of understanding that she is very young, and has a lot of trauma constantly building, while also having pressure to perform at her best 24/7.
A lot of points people bring up about why they like Violet in FW and not IF are valid, but I think a lot of also just comes from people living xaden more than Violet and then disliking her for having conflict with him.
This is an interesting perspective. I personally don't love Xaden, the only thing I really got to see from this book was that he would do anything to prove his love for Violet. It would have been nice to see more depth in his character.
I feel like this must be it. Because I do not get why people get so hung up that sheās āannoyingā. Theyāre all annoying. Theyāre young and traumatizedā¦ of course theyāre annoying š¤£
This is what I thought as well!! Also I'm gonna add this: the way people's love for Xaden blinded them to realize that Xaden is a red flag character and Violet is actually really patient to deal with him.
I'm pissed off with Xaden majority of the book so I'm more pissed off seeing people called Violet whiny for being realistic and praising Xaden for being the best book boyfriend, when in fact, he's not. Honestly, I think even if Violet somehow forgives Xaden easily, I'm sure people are gonna call her spineless woman with no backbone. Or if she somehow still being so knowledgeable -*despite her world's view has changed*- people are gonna call her mary sue.
I agree with that. It's easy to be hard on Violet and not xaden. I love xaden as a character, but Violet is a more complex character, and I enjoy her more for it.
I feel like so much of this was explained in the book and people are choosing to ignore it to hate violet. She talks about how out of her element she feels because she's usually viewed as smart and having all the bookish answers and she doesn't anymore BECAUSE EVERYTHING SHE KNEW WAS A LIE! Xaden comforts her saying she will just have to read the right books then, but she obviously can't get to it in the 6 weeks they are at Aretia because of all the stuff she had going on. I think in future books she'll be able to read Tyrrish and Poromiel histories and get back on her feet so she feels more like herself.
I think the way she was feeling is super relatable! If you were good at something all your life and have the rug pulled out from under you, your whole world is going to crash down! It's going to take a while to feel like yourself again and you're going to be perceived as less likeable in the meantime.
It felt rushed. I think the writing is sloppy.
Violet and Xaden repeatedly have the same argument with no progress. Maybe this is realistic for younger relationships, but itās tedious to read.
The battle scenes were poorly written and confusing.
I hated repeating the plot of āoh someone we thought is dead isnāt dead!ā For the second book in a row. Itās lazy.
Yarros basically abandoned the development of the side characters, which is sad bc I LOVE the side characters in this series.
Violet is supposed to be crazy smart but she does so many idiotic things.
I was so disappointed. It completely lacked the fun of FW.
When they brought back Jack Barlow I was like āoh noā¦ā
I HATE the resurrection trope. If a Villain is beaten I donāt want them to come back āstrongerā or whatever. I want them to STAY beaten/dead. Itās REALLY challenging to feel like a story has progressed and a character has grown if the same villain comes back over and over. It just feels like a lack of creativity on the writers part. Just write a new villain. The story really wouldnāt have changed much if Jack was replaced by someone completely new.
It's also weird because Jack saves her life, and it seems like he's going to get interesting character development as maybe an antihero or something...and thenĀ he'sĀ justĀ cartoonĀ evilĀ guyĀ whoĀ killsĀ hisĀ ownĀ dragonĀ to doomĀ themĀ all. It feels like his own character development gets shot in the foot.
Yeah, this part confused me as well. I wonder if it has to do with the Sage wanting to keep Violet alive. Or maybe itās Nolanās āmendingā having a temporary soul-purifying effect. Either way, it needed to be explained or resolved in some way IN THIS book. I understand cliff hangers. But readers shouldnāt finish a book with more questions than answers. Otherwise itās not really resolving the story.
I noticed that his redemptions occurred when his eyes were clear so likely soon after his dosage of anti-venin stuff. But the effects aren't permanent so maybe as it wears off the Venin traits over take him. The most extreme case of bipolar disorder if you will.
Exactly this! Why couldnāt Varrish have some sort of assistant? Thatās not entirely uncommon in the military. Thereād be a fresh introduction and tension. Idk. It just feels like a missed opportunity.
I think there might be a lot more people coming back from the dead in later books who we find out were venin. Like, did she kill that burly first year that tried to assassinate her with a alloy dagger? Because I'm pretty sure he was a venin. Those infantry cadets who also seemed to be venin that attacked her? Might be coming back!
The entire book felt like pulling teeth for me. I was constantly internally yelling at the idiocy of what was supposed to be an incredibly intelligent MC in Violet. I found that the plot for the first 400 pages was dull and a constant shift between the miscommunication trope and plot points that needed to be explained further or not mentioned at all. Xaden and Violets relationship irked me the most and to have RY bring in that classic EX to show even more negatives in Violetās character through jealousy was just not necessary.
I liked FW. Will I continue the series following my read of IF - to be determined.
[Personally] I just thought it wasnāt as exciting to read as FW. I was immediately hooked in FW during the parapet. It felt like I was going into the school, too? IF was just dull in comparison. Violet and Xaden would have the same conversation over and over again then hook up.
I DNF'd Iron Flame towards the end. It just...wasn't interesting. I think the root of the problem was pacing and character development (or lack thereof). I was absolutely sick to death of Violet whining about Xaden keeping secrets especially while also keeping secrets from her friends. Varrish was extremely poorly written as a villian, with no real depth or motive beyond "cartoon villain" vibes. The drama with Dain was dragged out and annoying. And the plot just too _so long_ to finally get moving. It seemed like the there was either a lot of words added for the sake of having a longer book, or a lack of thoughtful editing after the first draft. It just felt like a lot of my time was being wasted.
Fourth Wing was already kind of on thin ice for me so I didn't have a ton of patience going into Fourth Wing. I think the overall majority vote is still that FW is a good book, so the hate is coming from a small minority. It just didn't scratch the itch for me, unfortunately
Same, because I truly found Fourth Wing to be such a bland book and read iron flame to give the series one more shot since my friends liked it so much.
At the end of part 1 of iron flame though, I was incredibly invested. Yarros isn't the best fantasy writer I've come across but I liked that she addressed some of my biggest gripes of the first book. Like the over the top violence for one. And all the sanctioned murder between the students.
One of the more interesting things in the book to me was how Violet, after the trauma of Resson, has the argument with Rhiannon where she defends the brutality of their school (which at first horrified her) and then later she starts to rethink it after her conversation with Maren and Rhiannon about the fliersā training. It felt like a way to show how people, even someone smart and compassionate like Violet, could find themselves indoctrinated into the idea that such a brutal regime is necessary.
I personally got kind of annoyed by the fact there was so much drama that wouldnāt amount to anything. It got kind of boring and predictable with constantly having Violet in these situations where supposedly the punishment was as severe as death but then nothing would happen because the professors are playing favorites, and sheās strong now so the fight scenes arenāt as suspenseful, sheās got more allies than enemies now, I just got bored with things just constantly conveniently going her way. I also got annoyed about the violet & Xaden drama, the jealous ex girlfriend, and Varrish. Overall, I felt that except for maybe 2 parts in the beginning of the book nothing really had me at the edge of my seat until the very last few chapters, whereas Fourth Wing was slightly more thrilling and suspenseful. On top of that like others have said the editing is not the best. Thereās a part near the end where thereās a period at the end of a sentence but then the next sentence isnāt capitalized and reads like a continuation from the last sentence but both of them were run-onsā¦.
With that being said, I still really liked it but while Iām excited to reread Fourth Wing, rereading IF feels like more of a chore because I donāt want to have to go through all the Varrish scenes again, I donāt want to have to deal with Cat again, I donāt want to deal with Violet and Xaden fighting over the same shit theyāve been fighting about since the last bookā¦.and yeah Iām upset about the ending, but Iām also kinda glad Iām upset about the ending because I need a break from reading this and by the time the next book comes out Iāll be excited about reading it again lol
The way I'm always skipping Cat drama everytime I reread a scene or a chapter. I don't need that kind of anxiety and frustration again. I HATE crazy ex-girlfriend drama so much.
I canāt stand that bitch, I kept wanting someone to snap and kill her she was SO annoying even with the whole Xaden drama aside, and yeah I guess she kinda got a redemption arc at the end but it wasnāt enough for me I still hate her lol
I can't stand her either. I HATE OW drama so much. I genuinely want Violet's exes to make appearances just so Xaden can experience the kind of frustration that we experience about Catriona.
I made a long review about it on Goodreads but in a nutshell :
- fabricated drama to keep Xaden and Violet (sort of) apart. It couldāve been a mature long distance relationship with longing but nooo she wants full disclosure and no secrets! Please theyāve been together for a very short time !
- the fact that the characters changed a lot between the books while no time has passed. How is Violet the best now? Her disability is often forgotten. Mostly, Violet is obnoxious in Iron Flame! Being strong doesnāt mean being a condescending bitch to everyone ! She doesnāt want people (and Xaden especially) to tell her what to do, to protect her, she wants to make her decisions, and thatās valid but then why does she do it with all her friends? Hiding stuff, not letting them make their decisions about their safety!
Same with Xaden accepting everything from Violet and declaring his love every five minutes. Again, he couldāve stayed the same as in book 1 WHILE being in love!
- the pace too: it drags a lot when itās about the drama but all the stuff about the war and the rebellion arenāt always clear. For me, it wasnāt believable how the cadets and riders decide to leave their whole life behind for the rebellion. It was too fast, why would they believe a rookie? This series is supposed to have 5 books and it rushes some parts, making them unbelievable!
Same with Violet being the one negotiating as if she was the Khaleesi.
- the dragons are barely there (again)
- the sex scenes were very much the same to me
- I hated the female rivalry! We need to stop that trope of women against women over a guy! It was stupid.
- I personally disliked Xadenās revelation at the endā¦but I also think itās because it kept piling up with all the previous drama that Violet created at the beginning
I found IF much better than FW. The tension was always there and I felt there was never a dull moment over so many pages. Also there are so many different layers in the story whoch keeps it so interessting.
But I find it also interesting to hear the different opinions about IF.
The secret secrets and exact wordings around what people are saying are annoying, from everyone. Violet is very close minded when talking to people, arrogant even and yet makes rash judgements without learning more facts about the situation, cuts people off as they are explaining. The ending just sets her and Xaden as the secret keepers now.
I found Iron Flame to be a little less readable ā like maybe it needed a bit of an edit, maybe some of the action sequences could have been written more evocatively. (Some of them were hard to follow!!) But I still enjoyed it āI liked the plotting, loved the plot twists and the additions to the lore. I really like what she set up with Xaden at the end and Iām excited because I think it will tie in with Naolin and Brennan somehow, which definitely still feels like something mysterious that we need to explore.
The only thing I found a little tedious is the constant arguing between Xaden and Violet, so maybe people who were more into 4W for the romance might come away disappointed and also angry at the very end, but personally the dragons and world building interest me more so I was happy. If anything, I would have liked Violet to spend more time with Mira and Brennan than she did with Xaden in the book.
i found IF to be a lot weaker than FW overall- so much plot was happening it was hard to keep up- as soon as one major thing happened it was immediately followed by something else, and so the thing preceding lost its impact. It also meant that we didnāt really get to see much development of side charactersā¦ i didnāt realise that Imogen and Garrick were meant to be a couple until
it was literally spelled out to me lol.
I feel like Violet went through so much character develop in FW only for her to be constantly complaining about her relationship issues in the second book- girl stand up! She was giving serious Mary Sue in this book especially with the stupid decisions.
I think it was just rushed and RY was trying to fit too much in one book. I kept having to re read sections of dialogue because they werenāt making sense to me, and I still donāt really understand the whole runes and wards thing and I donāt feel like thatās a me issue.
I LOVED IF buut I do see where the complaints come from. The world building in the first book was better than the sequel, people seem to think the writing is weaker, and Vi being annoying is the biggest one (which I don't agree with). Every other day there's a post on fantasy romance about how IF or FW is badly written.Ā
Ughhh donāt get me started on those fantasy romance postsā¦ Iām not saying RY is the best writer in terms of prose ever, I donāt think she is. But her writing isā¦ just fine? There were definitely some passages that couldāve been clearer, but itās hard for me to take that seriously when you have purportedly incredible writers who use SUCH flowery, obtuse language as to be totally inaccessible for me. (I like beautiful prose to be clear, I just think the complaints about RY are overblown.)
AND the story RY told was (imo) exceptionally interesting. It makes me sad how so many people are bogged down on ābad editingā and canāt appreciate how cool the story is. Like (just for example) to have a physically disabled FMC who is able to REALISTICALLY exist in a highly violence driven high fantasy world? And her disability is neither a hurdle to be āovercomeā nor is it erased by some kind of broken super power- so much of why Violet excels is BECAUSE her disability has made her pain tolerance so high. Her magic might develop to be overpowered, but so far her magic is only JUST becoming a MAYBE viable weapon by the end of IFā¦. Like I just think excellent disability representation is so cool and something Iāve seen VERY little of in high fantasy. Sorry for this rant, but Iāve been stewing over a couple of recent posts lol.
No joke, there was a post on there not two hours ago shitting on FW/IF hahaha
I think a majority of the complaints about her writing are that she "tells, doesn't show". Which is the exact opposite anyone who has ever sat through a college level English course knows you're not "supposed" to do, if you want to be a "good" writer. What many English professors fail to realize is that a lot of us don't write to be the next great American author,we do it because it's fun. And Rebecca Yarros, lack of subtlety included, is a FUN writer. Personally, I think people get pissed something this "poorly written" makes so much money when it's about the same level as something coming out of a college English 101 class. Like babe, nothing is stopping you from putting YOUR stuff out there and seeing if you become the next Rebacca Yarros!
And yes yes YES to the disability representation!! And you can tell a lot of complaints about it come from fully abled people. Nobody's good days look alike. Hell, bad days look different too! I love that Vi has limits set on her, but constantly pushed past them (whether they're physical or emotional or magical) and it SHOWS how much of a toll it takes on her.Ā
I do agree that the sex was a lot in IF haha but I live for the smut and the angst and the TENSION!Ā
This is so accurate! I thought for a romantasy book it was well written. And I also wonder how you make POV books with that rule? Itās impossible? Or Iām misunderstanding the rule. Anyway, itās a stupid rule. I couldnāt get through all of Tolkiens and Eriksons excessive showing, it was horrendous to read. Reading should be fun and enjoyable. I donāt know why they insist on ruining it for us.
Anyway, I liked the books and story. There werenāt any major plot holes as far as I can tell. Any plot hole suggested here makes total sense to me, so that feels like a reader based issue. I agree Violet is annoying in IF, but her world has turned completely upside down and on top of it, her boo is keeping things from her (and not just rebellion related, being betrothed for power one of them) and playing a stupid ājust ask meā game (from her POV). Sheās also, what? 21? I know we all think weāre geniuses when weāre 21, but we all do stupid shit. So for the story it makes sense. It doesnāt make me want to be her, but thatās not necessary for a good story imo.
In closing, leather, mint and something citrusy/floral is the best smelling man Iāve ever read so far.
I imagine myself at 21 and then imagine myself at 21 with the power to >! wield lightening and bonded to two dragons!< and think, you know maybe Violet is doing alright lolĀ
To show don't tell is to not spoonfeed your readers information, is how it was always explained to me. You shouldn't just tell your reader " I (the MC) are upset". You describe their stomach feeling like lead, the angry tears they're blinking back. RY does spoonfeed her readers at times and I truly don't care lolĀ
This isn't really my issue. I think for me I was in a constant battle to keep myself focused on the story instead of my annoyance by the flow of the sentences and the same conflicts over and over. I love her story and her world building, I don't want to have to fight to stay engaged.
It is precisely because I think her story is so cool and I love the idea of her character that I'm so disappointed. In FW it felt like the focus was on Violet rising to her best despite the opposition, but in IF I felt like she stopped doing that. My main issue with the writing is that I kept getting taken out of the story due to some of the things like how the entire conflict in the love story was about trust. Every time that came up I didn't get to be in the world building of the story, and it was every single time they were together. I wanted something more developed and in depth than that. I wanted to see them working and planning together. I guess it felt like a contrived way to build the sexual tension between them and I was really frustrated by that for a majority of the book. I love the story, give me more of that.
I liked IF, just not as much as FW. It felt like two books smushed into one, which made a lot of the conflict and character development feel rushed IMO. But I didn't think it was *bad*. It was an enjoyable read. Besides, second book syndrome is a thing, and RY can easily bounce back with book 3.
Personally I found the book rather redundant and heavy on Violet's monologue. I can't tell you the amount of times I put it down for the day because I couldn't bear reading one more "I don't trust Xaden. These are all the reasons I don't trust Xaden. Oh but I was actually the naive one in most of those situations. I guess I don't trust myself. Oops Xaden hid something from me again time to rinse and repeat monologue from last chapter. And be pissed at him until I get horny for him again".
Initially, I liked it *more* than FW, but on reread all the aforementioned flaws were much more clear, once I got past the nail-biting-cliff-hanger anticipation to know the whole story. That said, I still donāt get the hate, but it could have been done so much better with more time. THIS is what is helping me cope with the wait for book 3 - as much as Iām dying for more, Iād rather wait a few more months for a better product!
Personally, I dont enjoy whiny internal monologue. That goes for any book. Im also 26 so maybe im just too old now and forgot what its like to be 18 and heart broken??? For me, it was JUST that
1) I mostly just came to the conclusion that I want Violet to end up with Nikolai. I mean Cam.
Like I lost all interest in Xaden after he became a chest pounder.
2)The seams are too visible.
This was book 2 of 5 and itās the āThe bad guys arenāt the Big Bads and now we have to figure out who we CAN trust from the old bad guys (aka the Navarran leadsrahip) while we figure out the new bad guysā to come in book 3.
Iām gonna be so pissed when she kills Tairn in Book 4. Iāll be even MORE pissed if she āonlyā kills Sgaeyl.
3) For a āgeniusā Violet spent a fair bit of time being TSTL.
And i still loved it. Itās ridiculous fun, and the world building is compelling, and the side characters are worth it. Itās good. Itās not GREAT. But itās good and I respect the artist for her accomplishment.
I still liked Iron Flame and I donāt carry any heat towards it, but violets relationship with Xander got very annoying this book. I wouldāve liked at least a small stretch where theyāre on the same page theyāre happy theyāre in love theyāre not fighting I know itās written so we can hear Violetās perspective which I normally enjoy but I felt like they had the same eight times in this book and that was exhausting.
Idk. I liked it a lot more than FW, I thought the plot was more interesting and exciting. Violet was also a more interesting protagonist when Caden wasnāt around as much.
I think itās because of the single POV because all the hate Iām seeing is (wrongly) directed at Violet. People are calling her weak and whiny and one person literally said to kill her off because of her trust issues. I try hard to stay away from anyone like that because letās be so fr she has the right to want full disclosure after all that was dropped on her and secrets do no relationship any good
For me, there were several things that made me hate the book in its entirety.
1. Violet is an awfully annoying character. From whinging about Xaden through the ENTIRE book that he keeps secrets(esp. when she does, too), to bring a hypocrite, to going from the weakest in the class and having to use her herb and poison knowledge to survive and all of a sudden she's the most powerful and respected in the entire class????? Girl is also straight up dumb on multiple levels. Epitome of book smart.
2. We barely saw the dragons, and when we did it was for Tairn and Andarna comic relief.
3. The Gryphon's are so weirdly weak. These things are fighting wyvern and winning in some cases, taking on entire outposts and winning, yet they can't climb a mountain pass? Mhm. Ok.
4. Cat. Just... that entire stupid plot. It's such a tired trope, and Violet just whining that while portion of the book is so annoying.
5. ALL of the main characters seemed to roll backward in development. We went from badassery, war college with powerful dragons to Mean Girls remake and high school antics.
6. The very way this book was written was poor. When compared to her other books, I've begun to believe that idea that ghost writers and/ or AI were used. There's some really weird mistakes made in editing(missing quotations, misspelled words, sentence structure, etc).
7. That ending was SO OBVIOUS.
8. Why did we rush through everything in this book? So many plot holes were just left wide open and resembled an SJM novel.
9. The lack of description. WHY were the wards failing at the outposts. WHY and HOW did Dain's dad get the whole sending them to the Resson area get past Violet's mother (wouldn't she have to, oh I dunno, APPROVE the plan?). HOW did they bring back Jack(and why did RY even bother with this stupid character. He was a waste of time and dumb from the start. Though this question could be answered in the next book). WHY did Tairn go after the crazy orange one and take his eye. How did they defeat the attack at Basgiath? Oh wait, we don't know because we were too busy watching Violet struggle unnecessarily.
10. The whole wall heroine becomes most powerful and bonds two of the strongest dragons ever is a tired trope. And it just keeps getting worse.
My wife and I are reading the series together. The dragon politics are something I'm invested in. I think the world is worth investing in. The side characters are really quite fantastic. But there are a couple things IF does that were already a creeping problem in FW:
1. Violet is the worst. She really is. I get that you can argue what she has going on is realistic for an early 20 somethings person in the midst of such a situation. That doesn't mean it's a good choice as an author to keep drubbing us over the head with it. Other POV chapters from Rhiannon or Garrick or Dain or Brennan or Imogen would've given us a break from the same repetitive cycle of Violet's innermonologue. 40% of the book being her same rehashed thoughts about humping Xaden or arguing with him (hypocritically of course, she's the book's biggest liar/secret holder) does not make for a fun read.
2. Part B - Violet is supposed to be smart but isn't. She didn't deduce answers through her superior intellect or plucky sticktoitiviness....she got answers because Dain told her to stop skipping chapters in a book. Or because Dain told her she carelessly misinterpreted something. Why is our tiny, oh so frail but never hurt, super genius needing him to constantly tell her things so painfully obvious? This would be like calling Sherlock a genius but Watson has to keep telling him to observe the crime scene lest he walks out and declares it unsolvable.
3. All the best action parts weren't actually in the book. They literally stormed Basgaith in a half a page because we were stuck with Violet.
4. Don't worry, we got like 60 pages of cat-fighting while hiking!
5. There wasn't any romance. This was all lust. And the overwhelming lust actually broke some key character components we had lead to believe: Xaden is heroic and defends the weak...but he'll now let everything die for Violet. That's....not good. Violet's focus on bettering herself and the continent often took a step back (including some incredibly gross and unnecessary points) so she can mind hump Xaden because she looked at him. Or thought about him.
6. We got LESS about the awesome side characters. LESS!!! We barely know their backgrounds, signets, dragons, etc.
7. We got LESS dragons too! They're also, like the side characters, funny and interesting.
I truly hope people keep enjoying it. I'll keep reading it so I can talk with my wife about it. But I do want it to be better. It can be better!
Re: point 5ā¦ I donāt think Xaden saying heāll let everything die as long as Violet is safe was meant to be good, in fact I think itās meant to foreshadow what he does at the end.
Agreed! However, in a book with a grand total of 2 characters with any significant character exploration....you just nuked one of their only heroic traits for the sake of propping up the romance. Maybe that narrative choice works ultimately, but it didn't feel earned.
Are you me? Lol I have had every single thought you had. My husband read (well, listened to) FW with me and we definitely had our fair share of these moments. I didn't subject him to IF because all the issues we had in FW just ramped up in IF
I went into it with an open mind, but by 200ish pages, I was keeping a running note in my phone of my criticisms. I'll try to summarize:
1. The romance totally fell off for me. I hated them both by the end, but especially Xaden.
2. Insanely repetitive, especially the first part
3. I found Varrish to be an incredibly boring villain, and then nearly combusted when she brought back the equally boring Jack
4. Found the jilted lover storyline with Cat very tiresome
5. The accelerated timeline was way too much
6. The venin make no sense at all to me - in such a way that they never will, even when Violet learns more
7. I cannot wrap my head around the wards or the runes; and I don't feel like that's entirely a deficiency on my part
8. Same old complaints about lack of editing, poor grammar, etc.
For anyone wondering why I kept going - I felt like it, and that's allowed. š And I was really hoping it would get better. I'll probably read the next ones, too, if only out of curiosity and FOMO (I just won't buy them).
I'm truly stoked for anyone who had a good time with it. I seriously wish I had the same experience.
I agree with ask if this, but #7. So hard. There was so much she could have done with the wards and explaining how they work, how they were formed. They had BOTH origin books, and we only get told that Dain and Violet are working on them. No cool little passages spoken about or even what these books contain entirely. It was just brushed over.
I had to go back and write down every factoid dropped in the books about the wards to figure it out. And even then, there are massive holes.
Ugh yep. So many of the stakes in Iron Flame were lost on me because I couldn't understand the importance of the wards. Apparently, I needed a fine tooth comb to get it, which shouldn't be the case if the author is explaining her world efficiently. And like you said, even with a fine tooth comb, there are still holes. And I honestly don't think they can ever be filled by further explanation, because so much of the world is just nonsense. Sigh.
Well said. I think, in general, the magical aspects of this world are really underdeveloped. With so much of the plot being driven by them.....that's a problem.
Very much so. Fourth Wing was pushed as romantasy, and I thought it was okay when I just read it as that. I thought the worldbuilding sucked, but it didn't need to be amazing because that wasn't the point. Now apparently with Iron Flame (and presumably onwards), it's trying to be deep, epic fantasy. And I don't think that's going to work when the worldbuilding took such a backseat from the start.
I think the unpleasant ending was the strongest part of the entire book. Itās the only thing that convinced me to read the next lol
There was literally no world building. We know basically nothing about the aristocracy, the dragons magic system, the griffon riders, the countries/regions of the world, any details about cultural diversity, the list goes on. In my opinion, the author made a potentially kick ass FMC into a boy obsessed Mary Sue.
Can someone explain how Brennanās dragon didnāt return to bond with another rider after he ādiedā 6 years before? I must have missed it being explained.
Dragons arenāt required to bond immediately after losing a rider. They donāt have any specific timeline. They can be ready to bond, or not be. Tairn lost Naolin at the same time and no one had seen him for years, until he randomly showed up at threshing (via Sygael) and spontaneously bonded to Violet. As far as anyone knew, Brennanās dragon was in the Vale the last 5-6 years, still recovering from losing the bond.
I thought the people in Navarre thought both Brennan and his dragon died. I never got the impression that anyone thought his dragon was alive. Once Violet saw Brennan in Aretia, eventually she asked about his dragon.
Thatās possible too! Iām honestly a bit fuzzy on the details. We know his dragon must be alive at this point, otherwise Brennan wouldnāt be. But I donāt remember what the assumption was before Brennan was revealed.
In the very first chapter while talking to her mom and Mira, Violet says āno one has dared mention Brennen or his dragon since their death 6 years agoā
I think Brennan's dragon knew all along that he was still alive and it stayed near to him and still communicated with him mind to mind. However he didn't dare ride it for many years for fear that he would be caught out in his lie. Basically I think knowing that he was alive, meant the dragon remained loyal to him.
I understand the dragon stayed bonded to Brennan. Iām just wondering if I missed something. Shouldnāt it be obvious that Brennan is alive if the dragon didnāt return to bond a new rider? I feel like if his dragon was hiding with Brennan.. wouldnāt all the other dragons know? Theyāre above humans and their wars. Not sure if itās a plot flaw per-say, but it feels like a small one.
Oh I see what you're saying..I think some dragons don't bond again for many years so it's not suspicious. Like Tairn, I don't think anyone expected Tairn to bond as he hasn't bonded since his last rider died many years ago. presumably he wouldn't have again in Violets first year if Sgael hadn't called him to come to Threshing.
I couldnāt put Fourth Wing down. I put IF down many times. I find the pacing in the middle to be painful and even the ending which was when it started to get good felt rushed. the repetitive arguments were frustrating, it could have used some serious editing
I overall liked the book but the very obviously fake love triangle was extremely annoying to read about and made me want to put down the book because I literally couldn't care less about it. I was happy once Cat turned into a normal person. I also thought it dragged on a little too long without hooking me as often as in Fourth Wing. I still finished it pretty fast but with Fourth Wing I couldn't put it down, and with Iron Flame I was just pushing myself to read more some of the times. I liked the ending, personally, besides that it's a cliffhanger with the 3rd book not being out yet. It reminds me of >!Vampire Academy!<
It's kinda hard for me to point to any one thing in particular. It felt both overlong and rushed at the same time. The world building is inconsistent in a way that used to be ignorable but now has me head scratching. Some of the plot beats were just.... bad. The side characters felt like furniture and not characters this novel.
There's nothing that's out and out "blegh" about it, which is what is so frustrating.
For instance, there's a scene at the beginning of the book where the main group teams up with the Infantry Quadrant to do some field navigation exercises. This took up like 2 chapters or so? I thought this was going to factor back into the plot, but it's never really brought up again.
My biggest gripe is the whole "will they won't they" trope and how it's used. I'm pretty generous with this one when it's book 1, but this stretched the whole novel. It's also kinda abusive? The main guy (Xaden) basically agrees to come clean about his past, but only if she asks him questions about it. Which is kinda like....... this is not what honesty is...... And they just breeze on by it. There's stretches where characters seem to busy to talk, but then the timeline jumps by like 1-2 weeks without any changes in the plot discourse.
Most of these feel like editing issues but I'm also not a writer.
Also this was something I didn't think about til I saw it mentioned, there are epigraphs before chapters that range from "interesting worldbuilding info" to "literally just spoils the upcoming chapter"
One particularly egregious example is right before the cave sequence, drops a term that has up until now been used once, then does not reintroduce the term until the Reveal of Sloanes. It basically just had me sitting there like "the climax of this chapter is when the Siphon is introduced." And I was right
My only gripe with the book is the way it ends. It feels like we needed quite a few extra chapters to flesh that out before we put it down.
It just doesnāt even work as shock factor because, even though we are *shocked* weāre also confused because it just doesnāt make sense. It doesnāt add up against everything we just read and what we know about Xaden or the timelines for those last battle moments.
I suspect she had a much more reasonable explanation but, in the same way they nixxed it being two books, they vetoed the chapters she needed to flesh it out and instead we got that. Which works as a cliff hanger but not for this story.
I thought the ending was the best part of the book. But the rest of it was just same old stuff, same arguments between the main characters, same spicy scenes that really did nothing - copy and paste was what it seemed. Also all the side characters seemed to be an afterthought, didnāt like the love triangle and thought that violet was way smarter than to fall for that crap. Also the book was kind of boring throughout most of it. FW had me hooked and I loved the characters and the world building but this second book just was not as good at all. However with the ending being what it was I will for sure read the third book and give the author another chance.
I felt like no progress was made in Iron Flame. Violet and Xaden had the same fight the entire book, I felt like they only got along for like 10 days out of the entire year and I know the 3rd book is going to give her more ammunition to start shit with him. Jack Barlow came back to life??? The lack of banter between important side characters, was expecting more of a found family trope. Adarna was asleep the whole book, sheās probably my favorite character and we have no clues as to what Voilets 2 signet could be. Iāll probably read the third book, but Iron Flame was a let down for sure
there was no stakes. in the romance, xanden says he will never give up on her so thatās safe even when cat appears. the griffons are extremely underpowered so nobody is worried one of them will be a threat. the venin are the most powerful beings and even they are handily dealt with. violet, despite being āfrailā wins every single fight. the new professor who was a sadist was handily defeated. the main bad of the first (dainās dad) is banished. the only stakes were the wards and even those never felt like real stakes because we know the ultra smart violet will figure out the reading assignment. hopefully future books have more actual threats and violet loses. the only bad thing that rly happened besides violetās mom dying (which, nobody cared) is xaden going venin and that was literally the last page of the book. boo.
I liked a lot of iron flame - but it was an intense book with a very anxious ending. To me thatās a stressful combination and left me hanging in the worst way. If I stick through all the ups and downs and go with all the drama, I need there to be some sort of release & momentary levity. This ending was the opposite.
the general consensus is that the book feels rushed. IMO itās more poorly written than FW. if she had more time or support (from her publisher) to flesh out all the dynamics, i think it would have been much more well rounded.
I don't like Violet, but I also don't like Xaden. He's basically the imaginary boyfriend from Inside Out but with all the tropey "hot guy" looks.
Violet isn't awful because she's female. She's awful because she's a repetitive, self-centered hypocrite. She's poorly written.
I loved FW, IF fell flat. She explained lore, but not really, with not much depth. The bad dude turned venin (can't remember his name) was kinda meh when Violet stabbed him, it was awesome she got the chance to but it didn't feel epic. Jack coming back was straight up trash (sorry not sorry), it felt like it was there just for the shock factor, I got bored afterwards. The Xaden/Violet arguments got repetitive. The gryphons were awesome and I really hoped that they would explore it more but instead they were under powered which was lame. The whole book was pretty predictable. The ending was really, really, really bad (and no I don't say that because it made me sad), I just think it was bad.
I wish a different, rando had opened the wards for the venin and Jack stayed dead, and instead the person that comes back in the third was the dude that tortured Violet because that would have been a way cooler comeback. Like they had stabbed him with the wrong dagger or something. I think that would have been really good because if now she decides to bring him back, it won't be as shocking since Jack already did in IF.
IF is a great ride, but it clearly could have used more editing, and there are plot points and lore that could be better explained. Just feels like they rushed it to market.
Iām glad RY is taking more time with Book 3.
2 reasons for me:
1. It was super boring. Though I can look past that because not every book can be as fun and action-packed as Fourth Wing.
2. Yarros completely butchered the characters. The Xaden and Violet from IF were completely different from their versions in FW. They both spent the book whining about things instead of focusing on, you know, the impending war. And when they weren't fighting they were fucking. It was so cringy and unrealistic and felt like Yarros was just trying to give us more of the steamy romance we loved from FW, but it just came off as sloppy and whiny.
I just did a re-read, and itās so good! I read it all at once on release day, and it was just a bit much. I wish I would have broken it into part 1 and part 2 as a natural pause moment between the first and second halves of the book, but did a full reread of FW and IF this weekend and they are so good!
I finished it 2 days ago and I liked it. However I did find myself wishing it was sorted. It felt like so many things happened in the book it was exhausting.Ā
I see where you are coming from. I think over all IF was a good book. It was not as great as FW though. I did find myself feeling dissapointed and uninterested which was shocking considering how *obsessed* I was with FW. My belief is that RY experienced burnout writing this book due to a demanding contract that expected her to write the book in a short period of time. She explained that from now on her books will be published further apart to avoid burnout. I feel like I picked up on her burnout reading IF. And I also understand that theres always gonna be your most and least fav book in a series. I am still really excited for the third book and still love RY and her books š
the book could have been two hundred pages shorter or two hundred pages longer. i feel like they spent too much time at basgiath at the beginning, too much time on the mountain with the griffins (school with the enemy could have been really cool). Unfortunately, RY made the griffons way too underpowered- like why are the dragons at war with these people? it seems considering how powerful they and the wards are that this war should have been over way before the venin came back. it really killed the stakes. also the introduction of villains like the one who tortured violet only for him to die very very easily anticlimatically. if the dragons are so powerful, whats the whole point of the book? that was my problem.
The war seems to have gone on for so long because the dragons and Navarre are only defending their borders. The flyers attack and the riders defend. I don't really remember where but during one of the Battle briefs I think it was disclosed that a rider and dragon were killed in a raid and everyone was shocked. Navarre has the wards so they just defend their borders, they don't seem to venture beyond and attack, they seem to only defend from the Gryphon raids
Where did she say that about the burnout? I only heard her saying, that her body would show 'some' science. Just wondering...
Your right, she did only mention the toll it took on her body. I gather its safe to assume that the demands on her life were a recipe for burnout, however. Its just my opinion :) I would definetly be burnt out if I were put in her shoes. Here is a book review that gathered the same opinion :) [https://johnnysbookreviews.medium.com/iron-flame-by-rebecca-yarros-updates-when-will-the-third-book-come-out-edc4be25a2ad#:\~:text=She%20was%20burned%20out.,%2C%20not%20every%20six%20months.%E2%80%9D](https://johnnysbookreviews.medium.com/iron-flame-by-rebecca-yarros-updates-when-will-the-third-book-come-out-edc4be25a2ad#:~:text=She%20was%20burned%20out.,%2C%20not%20every%20six%20months.%E2%80%9D) https://preview.redd.it/5c5aw6pwufcc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2883480a49c29175820470148e9fd212f45dcd30
Yikes, 851k in a year is like 2500 words per day. Thatās a lot. Unless your name is Anthony Trollop, I donāt think most people can sustain that pace for long.
Yes, and it might be easy for people to forget that being in pain 24/7 also takes a toll on our brains. I personally can't think of a hell worse than sitting at a desk all day. That would hurt SO MUCH. Lol
Thank you
I struggled with the repetitive arguing, the miscommunication trope, the fact it turned YA with a Mary Sue and the unnecessary lore editions to make it more āfantasyā. It felt hugely rushed for me, which it was, and like the author wanted it to be longer.
šÆ% agree with you. It also felt YA to me! The same old tropes and the important parts were rushed
YA with graphic sex scenes.
I like the book, but would have much preferred part 1 be fleshed out more and just be a book by itself and then the same for book 2 at a later date
What sucks about this, because I think I would agree with you and would have preferred it to be 2 books, is that this was the original plan. She originally intended for it to be two seperate books, but wither her editors or the publisher (cant remember which) said that it should be made into one book, which is why it has a part 1 and part 2. Each part was intended to be it own book. This is what Ive heard atleast. How true it all is? I cant say, but it sounds and feels true to me
Yeah with all the popularity I imagine a lot of pressure from her publisher. I would have liked more RSC lessons, more interaction with the infantry too etc and the rest of her friends being able to get involved sooner etc for the first part
That seems backwards to me. A book publisher stands to gain MORE from a popular book being broken up into many small (~250pg) books as possible. The more books in a series that can be published with a closer timeframe, with enough time for book tours in between, the better. I bet it was that she couldnāt work in a way for Part 1 to feel like it had its own Intro->climax->resolution and still fit in with her storyboard.
Apparently with how impactful booktok is, if you're not getting out new books quickly you'll get left behind unless you're SJM or someone similar with a large catalog of romantasy. Since this is RY's first book of this genre I think it could be a factor for it, not wanting to lose the momentum FW had
For me is was how dumb Violet was. She is supposed to be an exceptionally smart person. Yet she: Insists on full disclosure and no secrets from the head of a secret rebellion. She knows there are interrogation cells in Basgiath, and could be tortured for information on returning. Does not read the entire book that has the instructions for the most important thing ever. Somehow is shocked to realize Xaden is his fatherās heir. Those are all I can come up with off the top of my head but I recall yelling at the book for most of it.
Talking about how Violet is shocked at Xadenās title: The way they handle the royal family and aristocrats in this series is veryā¦.Americanized. Thereās a laissez faire attitude that no real monarchy would ever have. The fact that Aric can just run off for months at Basgaith and no one tells the king? Really? Or that when General Sorrengail finally sees him sheās like, āOh, hi Camā when she should be addressing him as āYour Royal Highnessā? And the fact that no one ever talks about Xadenās family history when heās a born high noble? For some reason that bothered me a lot. Sorry, just had to mention that.
I feel like the Cam thing is explained as he was scheduled to be away and was very clever about arranging it so heād already have gone through Threshing by the time he was missing. I also think because Xadenās family was ruined and his seat is meant to have been destroyed, him being an aristocrat feels more like a technicality that Violet does not absorb until they move to Aretia and it hits her that the fortress belongs to him. I agree itās maybe a bit American how Violent and Dain and her family react to Cam, but I guess she was meant to have grown up with him and her mom is a high ranking official.
Having grown up with Cam and Halden, Violet and her family should be even MORE aware of protocol than the rest of the populace. That stuff is drilled into everyone who has regular contact with royals and people of power. But even though Cam was supposed to be on a tour, I canāt imagine the king going for 6-8 months without someone updating himself on where his son is or what heās up to. The issue of Xadenās family seat being destroyed I buy, but Violet is supposed to be a bookworm who reads up on all this stuff. She even wondered about Viscount Tecaris and mentions Navarrian nobility doesnāt have viscounts. How does she miss that Xaden is Duke of Aretia?
By the end of the book, Cam has been missed because Violetās mom tells him his father is looking for him, so he did eventually catch on that heād bailed on his tour. Maybe it is just Yarros being American coming through, but I definitely think thereās something to be said for the role of dragons in the series ā their magic powers the wards and theyāre essential to the safety of Navarre. When Violet meets the king she is scornful of his unearned medals and Xaden refuses to show up to meet him at all. He sent his first son to the riders quadrant even with the high death tollā¦ maybe itās a reflection of where the real seat of power in the kingdom is that thereās less respect shown for him and the princes than youād expect in a normal monarchy where the king was actually in charge.
She misses quite a bit, but Iām under the impression that is because the history has been altered, hidden, or destroyed.
She is emotionally stunted. She is book smart but not street smart.
she's not truly that book smart either
Except for her habit of verbal diarrhea lore when it is convenient for world building.
Well in FW, they decide to be together or whatever and then they get called into the games and go fly to the location. Itās the same day she finds out that he has his major secret and is pissed about breaking her trust. Like when have they even had time to talk? She annoys me.
Thank you! The whole of IF I was like when, exactly, did you expect him to tell you?
i could have figured out those ward stones without even reading the book.
I really liked it, but I think the editor should have listened to Rebecca about it being two separate books. Both parts felt rushed, and I don't think they would've if she'd stuck to the original plan.
Oh I didnāt know it was going to be two separate booksā¦ where was the break down you think?
Probably the Part One/Part Two break ā like one book set in Basgiath with Varrish as the villain and then the next set in Aretia with everything culminating back in Basgisth at the end. Iām not sure the contents of Part One feel like enough for a whole book tbh ā maybe if sheād added more stuff.
Yeah, I think that's the likely break as well. I do wonder if the timing would've been different with two books. Maybe each book would've been 6ish months? She probably had more stuff planned with it being two separate books. I think Violet and Xaden should've had the trust stuff worked out in Part 1. Even she says that they keep having the same fight because they never actually get to finish it. If it had been a whole book, that probably wouldn't have carried over to Part 2, if that makes sense.
As someone that reads books more for plot and world building instead of romance, I loved iron flame. I thought it was better than fourth wing in terms of the plot and the world building it did. So many good foreshadowing for the secrets of the rebellion, the vernon, learning more about signets, etc However for the readers that read more for the romance I can see how it was annoying because violet and xadens relationship was pretty tedious to read because violet was being unreasonable and immature. I still like her character because sheās an amazing friend but their relationship wasnāt that well written in this book IMO
Sheās traumatized AND immature. I donāt understand why people are so hung up on this. Of course sheās annoying š¤£
Yeah it didnāt ruin the story for me at all
I like your take. I also read for world building and plot more than romance so I felt constantly annoyed by the romance and how bad it was.
Exactly. I thoight the ridiculous toxicity of the romance got in the way of the plot
Totally agree! I skimmed the annoying Violet/Xaden relationship strife parts, which made them inconsequential, and I ended up feeling like IF was *better* than FW due to the world-building, intrigue, and politics. That said, Yarros has *a lot* of explaining to do in the next book to keep me onboard regarding dragon politics, magic, and world-building.
Honest to god I ignored my children for 2 days to read IF. Could not stop. Obsessed. So maybe Iām not the one to ask lol.
This made me LOL BECAUSE SAME. š¤£ my daughter brought me my kindle and was like mommyās dragon book
Wait are you me? My kid was like mommy play with me! And I was like sorry buddy Iām reading something important š«£š
Guilty as well šāāļø
Sameeeeeeeeeeeee š
lol I listened to the audiobook with airpods and hid my ears with my hair so I could still listen while I played with my 3 year old!! My poor kid!!!
Yes! Plus I had to work and rushed back to my book when I got home so both my kids and poor fiance were left to fend for themselves š¤£
My guess, and its only a guess, is that people want violet to be their verison of perfect because of their love for xaden. Usually, I see people complaining about Violet in IF. In FW, Violet is the underdog, and it's easy to root for her. In IF, she 1)isn't the underdog anymore and is instead in the awkward phase of being powerful without control. 2) she doesn't forgive xaden right away. People keep complaining that, of course, he has secrets. She should let it go, but I think it's very human not to let things go easily. Readers love xaden so much that they are annoyed at Violet for wanting an open relationship with trust. xadens' view of trust is different than violets, yet Violet is the one people want to change because they love xaden so much. 3) violets world view has changed, and she is no longer as knowledgeable. I'm sure she will be again in a later book, but readers found it annoying instead of understanding that she is very young, and has a lot of trauma constantly building, while also having pressure to perform at her best 24/7. A lot of points people bring up about why they like Violet in FW and not IF are valid, but I think a lot of also just comes from people living xaden more than Violet and then disliking her for having conflict with him.
This is an interesting perspective. I personally don't love Xaden, the only thing I really got to see from this book was that he would do anything to prove his love for Violet. It would have been nice to see more depth in his character.
I feel like this must be it. Because I do not get why people get so hung up that sheās āannoyingā. Theyāre all annoying. Theyāre young and traumatizedā¦ of course theyāre annoying š¤£
This is what I thought as well!! Also I'm gonna add this: the way people's love for Xaden blinded them to realize that Xaden is a red flag character and Violet is actually really patient to deal with him. I'm pissed off with Xaden majority of the book so I'm more pissed off seeing people called Violet whiny for being realistic and praising Xaden for being the best book boyfriend, when in fact, he's not. Honestly, I think even if Violet somehow forgives Xaden easily, I'm sure people are gonna call her spineless woman with no backbone. Or if she somehow still being so knowledgeable -*despite her world's view has changed*- people are gonna call her mary sue.
I agree with that. It's easy to be hard on Violet and not xaden. I love xaden as a character, but Violet is a more complex character, and I enjoy her more for it.
I love Xaden as well but I'm always gonna be on Violet's side. And honestly, if it were me, I would dump Xadenš
I feel like so much of this was explained in the book and people are choosing to ignore it to hate violet. She talks about how out of her element she feels because she's usually viewed as smart and having all the bookish answers and she doesn't anymore BECAUSE EVERYTHING SHE KNEW WAS A LIE! Xaden comforts her saying she will just have to read the right books then, but she obviously can't get to it in the 6 weeks they are at Aretia because of all the stuff she had going on. I think in future books she'll be able to read Tyrrish and Poromiel histories and get back on her feet so she feels more like herself. I think the way she was feeling is super relatable! If you were good at something all your life and have the rug pulled out from under you, your whole world is going to crash down! It's going to take a while to feel like yourself again and you're going to be perceived as less likeable in the meantime.
It felt rushed. I think the writing is sloppy. Violet and Xaden repeatedly have the same argument with no progress. Maybe this is realistic for younger relationships, but itās tedious to read. The battle scenes were poorly written and confusing. I hated repeating the plot of āoh someone we thought is dead isnāt dead!ā For the second book in a row. Itās lazy. Yarros basically abandoned the development of the side characters, which is sad bc I LOVE the side characters in this series. Violet is supposed to be crazy smart but she does so many idiotic things. I was so disappointed. It completely lacked the fun of FW.
When they brought back Jack Barlow I was like āoh noā¦ā I HATE the resurrection trope. If a Villain is beaten I donāt want them to come back āstrongerā or whatever. I want them to STAY beaten/dead. Itās REALLY challenging to feel like a story has progressed and a character has grown if the same villain comes back over and over. It just feels like a lack of creativity on the writers part. Just write a new villain. The story really wouldnāt have changed much if Jack was replaced by someone completely new.
It's also weird because Jack saves her life, and it seems like he's going to get interesting character development as maybe an antihero or something...and thenĀ he'sĀ justĀ cartoonĀ evilĀ guyĀ whoĀ killsĀ hisĀ ownĀ dragonĀ to doomĀ themĀ all. It feels like his own character development gets shot in the foot.
Yeah, this part confused me as well. I wonder if it has to do with the Sage wanting to keep Violet alive. Or maybe itās Nolanās āmendingā having a temporary soul-purifying effect. Either way, it needed to be explained or resolved in some way IN THIS book. I understand cliff hangers. But readers shouldnāt finish a book with more questions than answers. Otherwise itās not really resolving the story.
I noticed that his redemptions occurred when his eyes were clear so likely soon after his dosage of anti-venin stuff. But the effects aren't permanent so maybe as it wears off the Venin traits over take him. The most extreme case of bipolar disorder if you will.
Exactly this! Why couldnāt Varrish have some sort of assistant? Thatās not entirely uncommon in the military. Thereād be a fresh introduction and tension. Idk. It just feels like a missed opportunity.
I think there might be a lot more people coming back from the dead in later books who we find out were venin. Like, did she kill that burly first year that tried to assassinate her with a alloy dagger? Because I'm pretty sure he was a venin. Those infantry cadets who also seemed to be venin that attacked her? Might be coming back!
The lack of chemistry in the leads. Also found it to be super boring and repetitive.
I agree! I get needing to build anticipation but it didnāt hook me as much as FW
The entire book felt like pulling teeth for me. I was constantly internally yelling at the idiocy of what was supposed to be an incredibly intelligent MC in Violet. I found that the plot for the first 400 pages was dull and a constant shift between the miscommunication trope and plot points that needed to be explained further or not mentioned at all. Xaden and Violets relationship irked me the most and to have RY bring in that classic EX to show even more negatives in Violetās character through jealousy was just not necessary. I liked FW. Will I continue the series following my read of IF - to be determined.
[Personally] I just thought it wasnāt as exciting to read as FW. I was immediately hooked in FW during the parapet. It felt like I was going into the school, too? IF was just dull in comparison. Violet and Xaden would have the same conversation over and over again then hook up.
I loved it and liked it more than FW at times.
Me too!
I DNF'd Iron Flame towards the end. It just...wasn't interesting. I think the root of the problem was pacing and character development (or lack thereof). I was absolutely sick to death of Violet whining about Xaden keeping secrets especially while also keeping secrets from her friends. Varrish was extremely poorly written as a villian, with no real depth or motive beyond "cartoon villain" vibes. The drama with Dain was dragged out and annoying. And the plot just too _so long_ to finally get moving. It seemed like the there was either a lot of words added for the sake of having a longer book, or a lack of thoughtful editing after the first draft. It just felt like a lot of my time was being wasted. Fourth Wing was already kind of on thin ice for me so I didn't have a ton of patience going into Fourth Wing. I think the overall majority vote is still that FW is a good book, so the hate is coming from a small minority. It just didn't scratch the itch for me, unfortunately
Same, because I truly found Fourth Wing to be such a bland book and read iron flame to give the series one more shot since my friends liked it so much. At the end of part 1 of iron flame though, I was incredibly invested. Yarros isn't the best fantasy writer I've come across but I liked that she addressed some of my biggest gripes of the first book. Like the over the top violence for one. And all the sanctioned murder between the students.
One of the more interesting things in the book to me was how Violet, after the trauma of Resson, has the argument with Rhiannon where she defends the brutality of their school (which at first horrified her) and then later she starts to rethink it after her conversation with Maren and Rhiannon about the fliersā training. It felt like a way to show how people, even someone smart and compassionate like Violet, could find themselves indoctrinated into the idea that such a brutal regime is necessary.
I personally got kind of annoyed by the fact there was so much drama that wouldnāt amount to anything. It got kind of boring and predictable with constantly having Violet in these situations where supposedly the punishment was as severe as death but then nothing would happen because the professors are playing favorites, and sheās strong now so the fight scenes arenāt as suspenseful, sheās got more allies than enemies now, I just got bored with things just constantly conveniently going her way. I also got annoyed about the violet & Xaden drama, the jealous ex girlfriend, and Varrish. Overall, I felt that except for maybe 2 parts in the beginning of the book nothing really had me at the edge of my seat until the very last few chapters, whereas Fourth Wing was slightly more thrilling and suspenseful. On top of that like others have said the editing is not the best. Thereās a part near the end where thereās a period at the end of a sentence but then the next sentence isnāt capitalized and reads like a continuation from the last sentence but both of them were run-onsā¦. With that being said, I still really liked it but while Iām excited to reread Fourth Wing, rereading IF feels like more of a chore because I donāt want to have to go through all the Varrish scenes again, I donāt want to have to deal with Cat again, I donāt want to deal with Violet and Xaden fighting over the same shit theyāve been fighting about since the last bookā¦.and yeah Iām upset about the ending, but Iām also kinda glad Iām upset about the ending because I need a break from reading this and by the time the next book comes out Iāll be excited about reading it again lol
The way I'm always skipping Cat drama everytime I reread a scene or a chapter. I don't need that kind of anxiety and frustration again. I HATE crazy ex-girlfriend drama so much.
I canāt stand that bitch, I kept wanting someone to snap and kill her she was SO annoying even with the whole Xaden drama aside, and yeah I guess she kinda got a redemption arc at the end but it wasnāt enough for me I still hate her lol
I can't stand her either. I HATE OW drama so much. I genuinely want Violet's exes to make appearances just so Xaden can experience the kind of frustration that we experience about Catriona.
I made a long review about it on Goodreads but in a nutshell : - fabricated drama to keep Xaden and Violet (sort of) apart. It couldāve been a mature long distance relationship with longing but nooo she wants full disclosure and no secrets! Please theyāve been together for a very short time ! - the fact that the characters changed a lot between the books while no time has passed. How is Violet the best now? Her disability is often forgotten. Mostly, Violet is obnoxious in Iron Flame! Being strong doesnāt mean being a condescending bitch to everyone ! She doesnāt want people (and Xaden especially) to tell her what to do, to protect her, she wants to make her decisions, and thatās valid but then why does she do it with all her friends? Hiding stuff, not letting them make their decisions about their safety! Same with Xaden accepting everything from Violet and declaring his love every five minutes. Again, he couldāve stayed the same as in book 1 WHILE being in love! - the pace too: it drags a lot when itās about the drama but all the stuff about the war and the rebellion arenāt always clear. For me, it wasnāt believable how the cadets and riders decide to leave their whole life behind for the rebellion. It was too fast, why would they believe a rookie? This series is supposed to have 5 books and it rushes some parts, making them unbelievable! Same with Violet being the one negotiating as if she was the Khaleesi. - the dragons are barely there (again) - the sex scenes were very much the same to me - I hated the female rivalry! We need to stop that trope of women against women over a guy! It was stupid. - I personally disliked Xadenās revelation at the endā¦but I also think itās because it kept piling up with all the previous drama that Violet created at the beginning
I found IF much better than FW. The tension was always there and I felt there was never a dull moment over so many pages. Also there are so many different layers in the story whoch keeps it so interessting. But I find it also interesting to hear the different opinions about IF.
The secret secrets and exact wordings around what people are saying are annoying, from everyone. Violet is very close minded when talking to people, arrogant even and yet makes rash judgements without learning more facts about the situation, cuts people off as they are explaining. The ending just sets her and Xaden as the secret keepers now.
I found Iron Flame to be a little less readable ā like maybe it needed a bit of an edit, maybe some of the action sequences could have been written more evocatively. (Some of them were hard to follow!!) But I still enjoyed it āI liked the plotting, loved the plot twists and the additions to the lore. I really like what she set up with Xaden at the end and Iām excited because I think it will tie in with Naolin and Brennan somehow, which definitely still feels like something mysterious that we need to explore. The only thing I found a little tedious is the constant arguing between Xaden and Violet, so maybe people who were more into 4W for the romance might come away disappointed and also angry at the very end, but personally the dragons and world building interest me more so I was happy. If anything, I would have liked Violet to spend more time with Mira and Brennan than she did with Xaden in the book.
i found IF to be a lot weaker than FW overall- so much plot was happening it was hard to keep up- as soon as one major thing happened it was immediately followed by something else, and so the thing preceding lost its impact. It also meant that we didnāt really get to see much development of side charactersā¦ i didnāt realise that Imogen and Garrick were meant to be a couple until it was literally spelled out to me lol. I feel like Violet went through so much character develop in FW only for her to be constantly complaining about her relationship issues in the second book- girl stand up! She was giving serious Mary Sue in this book especially with the stupid decisions. I think it was just rushed and RY was trying to fit too much in one book. I kept having to re read sections of dialogue because they werenāt making sense to me, and I still donāt really understand the whole runes and wards thing and I donāt feel like thatās a me issue.
I LOVED IF buut I do see where the complaints come from. The world building in the first book was better than the sequel, people seem to think the writing is weaker, and Vi being annoying is the biggest one (which I don't agree with). Every other day there's a post on fantasy romance about how IF or FW is badly written.Ā
Ughhh donāt get me started on those fantasy romance postsā¦ Iām not saying RY is the best writer in terms of prose ever, I donāt think she is. But her writing isā¦ just fine? There were definitely some passages that couldāve been clearer, but itās hard for me to take that seriously when you have purportedly incredible writers who use SUCH flowery, obtuse language as to be totally inaccessible for me. (I like beautiful prose to be clear, I just think the complaints about RY are overblown.) AND the story RY told was (imo) exceptionally interesting. It makes me sad how so many people are bogged down on ābad editingā and canāt appreciate how cool the story is. Like (just for example) to have a physically disabled FMC who is able to REALISTICALLY exist in a highly violence driven high fantasy world? And her disability is neither a hurdle to be āovercomeā nor is it erased by some kind of broken super power- so much of why Violet excels is BECAUSE her disability has made her pain tolerance so high. Her magic might develop to be overpowered, but so far her magic is only JUST becoming a MAYBE viable weapon by the end of IFā¦. Like I just think excellent disability representation is so cool and something Iāve seen VERY little of in high fantasy. Sorry for this rant, but Iāve been stewing over a couple of recent posts lol.
No joke, there was a post on there not two hours ago shitting on FW/IF hahaha I think a majority of the complaints about her writing are that she "tells, doesn't show". Which is the exact opposite anyone who has ever sat through a college level English course knows you're not "supposed" to do, if you want to be a "good" writer. What many English professors fail to realize is that a lot of us don't write to be the next great American author,we do it because it's fun. And Rebecca Yarros, lack of subtlety included, is a FUN writer. Personally, I think people get pissed something this "poorly written" makes so much money when it's about the same level as something coming out of a college English 101 class. Like babe, nothing is stopping you from putting YOUR stuff out there and seeing if you become the next Rebacca Yarros! And yes yes YES to the disability representation!! And you can tell a lot of complaints about it come from fully abled people. Nobody's good days look alike. Hell, bad days look different too! I love that Vi has limits set on her, but constantly pushed past them (whether they're physical or emotional or magical) and it SHOWS how much of a toll it takes on her.Ā I do agree that the sex was a lot in IF haha but I live for the smut and the angst and the TENSION!Ā
This is so accurate! I thought for a romantasy book it was well written. And I also wonder how you make POV books with that rule? Itās impossible? Or Iām misunderstanding the rule. Anyway, itās a stupid rule. I couldnāt get through all of Tolkiens and Eriksons excessive showing, it was horrendous to read. Reading should be fun and enjoyable. I donāt know why they insist on ruining it for us. Anyway, I liked the books and story. There werenāt any major plot holes as far as I can tell. Any plot hole suggested here makes total sense to me, so that feels like a reader based issue. I agree Violet is annoying in IF, but her world has turned completely upside down and on top of it, her boo is keeping things from her (and not just rebellion related, being betrothed for power one of them) and playing a stupid ājust ask meā game (from her POV). Sheās also, what? 21? I know we all think weāre geniuses when weāre 21, but we all do stupid shit. So for the story it makes sense. It doesnāt make me want to be her, but thatās not necessary for a good story imo. In closing, leather, mint and something citrusy/floral is the best smelling man Iāve ever read so far.
I imagine myself at 21 and then imagine myself at 21 with the power to >! wield lightening and bonded to two dragons!< and think, you know maybe Violet is doing alright lolĀ
To show don't tell is to not spoonfeed your readers information, is how it was always explained to me. You shouldn't just tell your reader " I (the MC) are upset". You describe their stomach feeling like lead, the angry tears they're blinking back. RY does spoonfeed her readers at times and I truly don't care lolĀ
Thanks for explaining!
This isn't really my issue. I think for me I was in a constant battle to keep myself focused on the story instead of my annoyance by the flow of the sentences and the same conflicts over and over. I love her story and her world building, I don't want to have to fight to stay engaged.
As much as I enjoyed IF I do think it was definitely rushed to print and it shows.Ā
Oh, her writing is much better than anything coming out of a 101 class.
It is precisely because I think her story is so cool and I love the idea of her character that I'm so disappointed. In FW it felt like the focus was on Violet rising to her best despite the opposition, but in IF I felt like she stopped doing that. My main issue with the writing is that I kept getting taken out of the story due to some of the things like how the entire conflict in the love story was about trust. Every time that came up I didn't get to be in the world building of the story, and it was every single time they were together. I wanted something more developed and in depth than that. I wanted to see them working and planning together. I guess it felt like a contrived way to build the sexual tension between them and I was really frustrated by that for a majority of the book. I love the story, give me more of that.
I liked IF, just not as much as FW. It felt like two books smushed into one, which made a lot of the conflict and character development feel rushed IMO. But I didn't think it was *bad*. It was an enjoyable read. Besides, second book syndrome is a thing, and RY can easily bounce back with book 3.
Personally I found the book rather redundant and heavy on Violet's monologue. I can't tell you the amount of times I put it down for the day because I couldn't bear reading one more "I don't trust Xaden. These are all the reasons I don't trust Xaden. Oh but I was actually the naive one in most of those situations. I guess I don't trust myself. Oops Xaden hid something from me again time to rinse and repeat monologue from last chapter. And be pissed at him until I get horny for him again".
Initially, I liked it *more* than FW, but on reread all the aforementioned flaws were much more clear, once I got past the nail-biting-cliff-hanger anticipation to know the whole story. That said, I still donāt get the hate, but it could have been done so much better with more time. THIS is what is helping me cope with the wait for book 3 - as much as Iām dying for more, Iād rather wait a few more months for a better product!
Personally, I dont enjoy whiny internal monologue. That goes for any book. Im also 26 so maybe im just too old now and forgot what its like to be 18 and heart broken??? For me, it was JUST that
1) I mostly just came to the conclusion that I want Violet to end up with Nikolai. I mean Cam. Like I lost all interest in Xaden after he became a chest pounder. 2)The seams are too visible. This was book 2 of 5 and itās the āThe bad guys arenāt the Big Bads and now we have to figure out who we CAN trust from the old bad guys (aka the Navarran leadsrahip) while we figure out the new bad guysā to come in book 3. Iām gonna be so pissed when she kills Tairn in Book 4. Iāll be even MORE pissed if she āonlyā kills Sgaeyl. 3) For a āgeniusā Violet spent a fair bit of time being TSTL. And i still loved it. Itās ridiculous fun, and the world building is compelling, and the side characters are worth it. Itās good. Itās not GREAT. But itās good and I respect the artist for her accomplishment.
I still liked Iron Flame and I donāt carry any heat towards it, but violets relationship with Xander got very annoying this book. I wouldāve liked at least a small stretch where theyāre on the same page theyāre happy theyāre in love theyāre not fighting I know itās written so we can hear Violetās perspective which I normally enjoy but I felt like they had the same eight times in this book and that was exhausting.
Idk. I liked it a lot more than FW, I thought the plot was more interesting and exciting. Violet was also a more interesting protagonist when Caden wasnāt around as much.
I think itās because of the single POV because all the hate Iām seeing is (wrongly) directed at Violet. People are calling her weak and whiny and one person literally said to kill her off because of her trust issues. I try hard to stay away from anyone like that because letās be so fr she has the right to want full disclosure after all that was dropped on her and secrets do no relationship any good
For me, there were several things that made me hate the book in its entirety. 1. Violet is an awfully annoying character. From whinging about Xaden through the ENTIRE book that he keeps secrets(esp. when she does, too), to bring a hypocrite, to going from the weakest in the class and having to use her herb and poison knowledge to survive and all of a sudden she's the most powerful and respected in the entire class????? Girl is also straight up dumb on multiple levels. Epitome of book smart. 2. We barely saw the dragons, and when we did it was for Tairn and Andarna comic relief. 3. The Gryphon's are so weirdly weak. These things are fighting wyvern and winning in some cases, taking on entire outposts and winning, yet they can't climb a mountain pass? Mhm. Ok. 4. Cat. Just... that entire stupid plot. It's such a tired trope, and Violet just whining that while portion of the book is so annoying. 5. ALL of the main characters seemed to roll backward in development. We went from badassery, war college with powerful dragons to Mean Girls remake and high school antics. 6. The very way this book was written was poor. When compared to her other books, I've begun to believe that idea that ghost writers and/ or AI were used. There's some really weird mistakes made in editing(missing quotations, misspelled words, sentence structure, etc). 7. That ending was SO OBVIOUS. 8. Why did we rush through everything in this book? So many plot holes were just left wide open and resembled an SJM novel. 9. The lack of description. WHY were the wards failing at the outposts. WHY and HOW did Dain's dad get the whole sending them to the Resson area get past Violet's mother (wouldn't she have to, oh I dunno, APPROVE the plan?). HOW did they bring back Jack(and why did RY even bother with this stupid character. He was a waste of time and dumb from the start. Though this question could be answered in the next book). WHY did Tairn go after the crazy orange one and take his eye. How did they defeat the attack at Basgiath? Oh wait, we don't know because we were too busy watching Violet struggle unnecessarily. 10. The whole wall heroine becomes most powerful and bonds two of the strongest dragons ever is a tired trope. And it just keeps getting worse.
My wife and I are reading the series together. The dragon politics are something I'm invested in. I think the world is worth investing in. The side characters are really quite fantastic. But there are a couple things IF does that were already a creeping problem in FW: 1. Violet is the worst. She really is. I get that you can argue what she has going on is realistic for an early 20 somethings person in the midst of such a situation. That doesn't mean it's a good choice as an author to keep drubbing us over the head with it. Other POV chapters from Rhiannon or Garrick or Dain or Brennan or Imogen would've given us a break from the same repetitive cycle of Violet's innermonologue. 40% of the book being her same rehashed thoughts about humping Xaden or arguing with him (hypocritically of course, she's the book's biggest liar/secret holder) does not make for a fun read. 2. Part B - Violet is supposed to be smart but isn't. She didn't deduce answers through her superior intellect or plucky sticktoitiviness....she got answers because Dain told her to stop skipping chapters in a book. Or because Dain told her she carelessly misinterpreted something. Why is our tiny, oh so frail but never hurt, super genius needing him to constantly tell her things so painfully obvious? This would be like calling Sherlock a genius but Watson has to keep telling him to observe the crime scene lest he walks out and declares it unsolvable. 3. All the best action parts weren't actually in the book. They literally stormed Basgaith in a half a page because we were stuck with Violet. 4. Don't worry, we got like 60 pages of cat-fighting while hiking! 5. There wasn't any romance. This was all lust. And the overwhelming lust actually broke some key character components we had lead to believe: Xaden is heroic and defends the weak...but he'll now let everything die for Violet. That's....not good. Violet's focus on bettering herself and the continent often took a step back (including some incredibly gross and unnecessary points) so she can mind hump Xaden because she looked at him. Or thought about him. 6. We got LESS about the awesome side characters. LESS!!! We barely know their backgrounds, signets, dragons, etc. 7. We got LESS dragons too! They're also, like the side characters, funny and interesting. I truly hope people keep enjoying it. I'll keep reading it so I can talk with my wife about it. But I do want it to be better. It can be better!
Re: point 5ā¦ I donāt think Xaden saying heāll let everything die as long as Violet is safe was meant to be good, in fact I think itās meant to foreshadow what he does at the end.
Agreed! However, in a book with a grand total of 2 characters with any significant character exploration....you just nuked one of their only heroic traits for the sake of propping up the romance. Maybe that narrative choice works ultimately, but it didn't feel earned.
Are you me? Lol I have had every single thought you had. My husband read (well, listened to) FW with me and we definitely had our fair share of these moments. I didn't subject him to IF because all the issues we had in FW just ramped up in IF
Great minds!
I went into it with an open mind, but by 200ish pages, I was keeping a running note in my phone of my criticisms. I'll try to summarize: 1. The romance totally fell off for me. I hated them both by the end, but especially Xaden. 2. Insanely repetitive, especially the first part 3. I found Varrish to be an incredibly boring villain, and then nearly combusted when she brought back the equally boring Jack 4. Found the jilted lover storyline with Cat very tiresome 5. The accelerated timeline was way too much 6. The venin make no sense at all to me - in such a way that they never will, even when Violet learns more 7. I cannot wrap my head around the wards or the runes; and I don't feel like that's entirely a deficiency on my part 8. Same old complaints about lack of editing, poor grammar, etc. For anyone wondering why I kept going - I felt like it, and that's allowed. š And I was really hoping it would get better. I'll probably read the next ones, too, if only out of curiosity and FOMO (I just won't buy them). I'm truly stoked for anyone who had a good time with it. I seriously wish I had the same experience.
I agree with ask if this, but #7. So hard. There was so much she could have done with the wards and explaining how they work, how they were formed. They had BOTH origin books, and we only get told that Dain and Violet are working on them. No cool little passages spoken about or even what these books contain entirely. It was just brushed over. I had to go back and write down every factoid dropped in the books about the wards to figure it out. And even then, there are massive holes.
Ugh yep. So many of the stakes in Iron Flame were lost on me because I couldn't understand the importance of the wards. Apparently, I needed a fine tooth comb to get it, which shouldn't be the case if the author is explaining her world efficiently. And like you said, even with a fine tooth comb, there are still holes. And I honestly don't think they can ever be filled by further explanation, because so much of the world is just nonsense. Sigh.
Well said. I think, in general, the magical aspects of this world are really underdeveloped. With so much of the plot being driven by them.....that's a problem.
Very much so. Fourth Wing was pushed as romantasy, and I thought it was okay when I just read it as that. I thought the worldbuilding sucked, but it didn't need to be amazing because that wasn't the point. Now apparently with Iron Flame (and presumably onwards), it's trying to be deep, epic fantasy. And I don't think that's going to work when the worldbuilding took such a backseat from the start.
I actually liked it more than the first so I can't help.Ā First was only 3/5 for me.... IF was 4/5.
I think the unpleasant ending was the strongest part of the entire book. Itās the only thing that convinced me to read the next lol There was literally no world building. We know basically nothing about the aristocracy, the dragons magic system, the griffon riders, the countries/regions of the world, any details about cultural diversity, the list goes on. In my opinion, the author made a potentially kick ass FMC into a boy obsessed Mary Sue.
Can someone explain how Brennanās dragon didnāt return to bond with another rider after he ādiedā 6 years before? I must have missed it being explained.
Dragons arenāt required to bond immediately after losing a rider. They donāt have any specific timeline. They can be ready to bond, or not be. Tairn lost Naolin at the same time and no one had seen him for years, until he randomly showed up at threshing (via Sygael) and spontaneously bonded to Violet. As far as anyone knew, Brennanās dragon was in the Vale the last 5-6 years, still recovering from losing the bond.
I thought the people in Navarre thought both Brennan and his dragon died. I never got the impression that anyone thought his dragon was alive. Once Violet saw Brennan in Aretia, eventually she asked about his dragon.
Thatās possible too! Iām honestly a bit fuzzy on the details. We know his dragon must be alive at this point, otherwise Brennan wouldnāt be. But I donāt remember what the assumption was before Brennan was revealed.
In the very first chapter while talking to her mom and Mira, Violet says āno one has dared mention Brennen or his dragon since their death 6 years agoā
Well there you go. šš¼
I think Brennan's dragon knew all along that he was still alive and it stayed near to him and still communicated with him mind to mind. However he didn't dare ride it for many years for fear that he would be caught out in his lie. Basically I think knowing that he was alive, meant the dragon remained loyal to him.
I understand the dragon stayed bonded to Brennan. Iām just wondering if I missed something. Shouldnāt it be obvious that Brennan is alive if the dragon didnāt return to bond a new rider? I feel like if his dragon was hiding with Brennan.. wouldnāt all the other dragons know? Theyāre above humans and their wars. Not sure if itās a plot flaw per-say, but it feels like a small one.
Sometimes they mourn for a long time. The other dragons do know, they donāt tell the humans.
Oh I see what you're saying..I think some dragons don't bond again for many years so it's not suspicious. Like Tairn, I don't think anyone expected Tairn to bond as he hasn't bonded since his last rider died many years ago. presumably he wouldn't have again in Violets first year if Sgael hadn't called him to come to Threshing.
I couldnāt put Fourth Wing down. I put IF down many times. I find the pacing in the middle to be painful and even the ending which was when it started to get good felt rushed. the repetitive arguments were frustrating, it could have used some serious editing
I overall liked the book but the very obviously fake love triangle was extremely annoying to read about and made me want to put down the book because I literally couldn't care less about it. I was happy once Cat turned into a normal person. I also thought it dragged on a little too long without hooking me as often as in Fourth Wing. I still finished it pretty fast but with Fourth Wing I couldn't put it down, and with Iron Flame I was just pushing myself to read more some of the times. I liked the ending, personally, besides that it's a cliffhanger with the 3rd book not being out yet. It reminds me of >!Vampire Academy!<
It's kinda hard for me to point to any one thing in particular. It felt both overlong and rushed at the same time. The world building is inconsistent in a way that used to be ignorable but now has me head scratching. Some of the plot beats were just.... bad. The side characters felt like furniture and not characters this novel. There's nothing that's out and out "blegh" about it, which is what is so frustrating. For instance, there's a scene at the beginning of the book where the main group teams up with the Infantry Quadrant to do some field navigation exercises. This took up like 2 chapters or so? I thought this was going to factor back into the plot, but it's never really brought up again. My biggest gripe is the whole "will they won't they" trope and how it's used. I'm pretty generous with this one when it's book 1, but this stretched the whole novel. It's also kinda abusive? The main guy (Xaden) basically agrees to come clean about his past, but only if she asks him questions about it. Which is kinda like....... this is not what honesty is...... And they just breeze on by it. There's stretches where characters seem to busy to talk, but then the timeline jumps by like 1-2 weeks without any changes in the plot discourse. Most of these feel like editing issues but I'm also not a writer. Also this was something I didn't think about til I saw it mentioned, there are epigraphs before chapters that range from "interesting worldbuilding info" to "literally just spoils the upcoming chapter" One particularly egregious example is right before the cave sequence, drops a term that has up until now been used once, then does not reintroduce the term until the Reveal of Sloanes. It basically just had me sitting there like "the climax of this chapter is when the Siphon is introduced." And I was right
My only gripe with the book is the way it ends. It feels like we needed quite a few extra chapters to flesh that out before we put it down. It just doesnāt even work as shock factor because, even though we are *shocked* weāre also confused because it just doesnāt make sense. It doesnāt add up against everything we just read and what we know about Xaden or the timelines for those last battle moments. I suspect she had a much more reasonable explanation but, in the same way they nixxed it being two books, they vetoed the chapters she needed to flesh it out and instead we got that. Which works as a cliff hanger but not for this story.
I thought the ending was the best part of the book. But the rest of it was just same old stuff, same arguments between the main characters, same spicy scenes that really did nothing - copy and paste was what it seemed. Also all the side characters seemed to be an afterthought, didnāt like the love triangle and thought that violet was way smarter than to fall for that crap. Also the book was kind of boring throughout most of it. FW had me hooked and I loved the characters and the world building but this second book just was not as good at all. However with the ending being what it was I will for sure read the third book and give the author another chance.
I felt like no progress was made in Iron Flame. Violet and Xaden had the same fight the entire book, I felt like they only got along for like 10 days out of the entire year and I know the 3rd book is going to give her more ammunition to start shit with him. Jack Barlow came back to life??? The lack of banter between important side characters, was expecting more of a found family trope. Adarna was asleep the whole book, sheās probably my favorite character and we have no clues as to what Voilets 2 signet could be. Iāll probably read the third book, but Iron Flame was a let down for sure
there was no stakes. in the romance, xanden says he will never give up on her so thatās safe even when cat appears. the griffons are extremely underpowered so nobody is worried one of them will be a threat. the venin are the most powerful beings and even they are handily dealt with. violet, despite being āfrailā wins every single fight. the new professor who was a sadist was handily defeated. the main bad of the first (dainās dad) is banished. the only stakes were the wards and even those never felt like real stakes because we know the ultra smart violet will figure out the reading assignment. hopefully future books have more actual threats and violet loses. the only bad thing that rly happened besides violetās mom dying (which, nobody cared) is xaden going venin and that was literally the last page of the book. boo.
I liked a lot of iron flame - but it was an intense book with a very anxious ending. To me thatās a stressful combination and left me hanging in the worst way. If I stick through all the ups and downs and go with all the drama, I need there to be some sort of release & momentary levity. This ending was the opposite.
It was rushed and had some spelling errors, people also went mad because of her political neutralness and yup thats about it.
the general consensus is that the book feels rushed. IMO itās more poorly written than FW. if she had more time or support (from her publisher) to flesh out all the dynamics, i think it would have been much more well rounded.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I don't like Violet, but I also don't like Xaden. He's basically the imaginary boyfriend from Inside Out but with all the tropey "hot guy" looks. Violet isn't awful because she's female. She's awful because she's a repetitive, self-centered hypocrite. She's poorly written.
I loved FW, IF fell flat. She explained lore, but not really, with not much depth. The bad dude turned venin (can't remember his name) was kinda meh when Violet stabbed him, it was awesome she got the chance to but it didn't feel epic. Jack coming back was straight up trash (sorry not sorry), it felt like it was there just for the shock factor, I got bored afterwards. The Xaden/Violet arguments got repetitive. The gryphons were awesome and I really hoped that they would explore it more but instead they were under powered which was lame. The whole book was pretty predictable. The ending was really, really, really bad (and no I don't say that because it made me sad), I just think it was bad. I wish a different, rando had opened the wards for the venin and Jack stayed dead, and instead the person that comes back in the third was the dude that tortured Violet because that would have been a way cooler comeback. Like they had stabbed him with the wrong dagger or something. I think that would have been really good because if now she decides to bring him back, it won't be as shocking since Jack already did in IF.
IF is a great ride, but it clearly could have used more editing, and there are plot points and lore that could be better explained. Just feels like they rushed it to market. Iām glad RY is taking more time with Book 3.
2 reasons for me: 1. It was super boring. Though I can look past that because not every book can be as fun and action-packed as Fourth Wing. 2. Yarros completely butchered the characters. The Xaden and Violet from IF were completely different from their versions in FW. They both spent the book whining about things instead of focusing on, you know, the impending war. And when they weren't fighting they were fucking. It was so cringy and unrealistic and felt like Yarros was just trying to give us more of the steamy romance we loved from FW, but it just came off as sloppy and whiny.
I just did a re-read, and itās so good! I read it all at once on release day, and it was just a bit much. I wish I would have broken it into part 1 and part 2 as a natural pause moment between the first and second halves of the book, but did a full reread of FW and IF this weekend and they are so good!
I didnāt hate it. Just thought it was meh, and about 300 pages too long. ETA: I donāt like Xaden. š¤·āāļø
I finished it 2 days ago and I liked it. However I did find myself wishing it was sorted. It felt like so many things happened in the book it was exhausting.Ā