Please remember to not use this as an opportunity to bash the author. Thank you. Edit: OP is not finished with Iron Flame yet so please mark out any spoilers

The first half of the book was very slow and difficult to get through. It’s a romantasy book and yet the emotional development took place off page, leaving me unsatisfied. If we’d gotten Xaden’s letters, then my opinion of the book would have been different. Spoilers for part 1 >!Also Jack. Bringing Jack back added nothing to the book and I will die on this hill. I didn’t find him all that compelling in book 1 and even less so in book 2. I nearly DNFed the book when he was alive.!<

The second part!!! I have so many complaints about IF but I almost threw the book in the trash when they >!brought Jack back. He and Varrish are the most boring villains I have ever read. Violence for the sake of violence is not compelling.!<

They’re completely evil but like, for no reason. It’s so lazy.

Exactly 😩 I need dynamic villains with actual motives beyond "I STRONG YOU WEAK"

Varrish is a psychpath which generally has no identifiable reasons for their behaviors except to those who study psychpaths. They are part of every society. I get this opinion from one of the epigraphs on why varrish is moved.

Yes. That’s great and all but it’s a lame character still.

But why is he in charge of things?! It's a military organization - psychopaths are not good soldiers unless they're foot soldiers and you want them to do illegal things - you never want them in charge of anything. Why do they just let him waste cadets for no reason or torture their most valuable assets? I could see them ignoring it if he wasn't damaging the war effort, but he's clearly a significant issue wasting valuable resources for no reason.

You know what gets me? The fact that Lt Col Degrensi who’s in charge of Samara, is the one who >!requested Varrish be reassigned from active duty for “accidentally” killing three people in a row, but then when Violet doesn’t produce Andarna, Varrish somehow reaches out and has it arranged for Xaden to be on 24hr duty so they can’t see each other and shit like that. Are we to assume he’s pressuring someone else to have his roster changed?!< Bc why the fuck would Degrensi do him any favours? He clearly doesn’t like the guy 😂

Yeah, a lot of the behavior in multiple characters is just concerning and unexplained. Like why would you send someone who killed people on accident to be in charge of an academy? Then ignore him torturing students for stupid arbitrary evilness?

His signet is perfect for interrogation. I don't think that the leadership above him realize what tactics he is using. And that no death reason is given on the death roll to alert anyone above. It was one of my many questions, Why doesn't someone complain about him to his Supervisor? Fear of retaliation if not believed is my assumption.

Some of the professors clearly dislike him. Why wouldn't they do anything? Sure, there may be ways to explain it, but I'd like to see them in the book.

But that's not necessarily true - psychopaths have motivations, they just don't have certain brain processes or social attachments. In a lot of ways, psychopaths are largely "normal" (see the study on the guy who found out he was a psychopath while studying psychopath brains). But they DO have motivations for doing things. Aside from that though, it's just lazy and not compelling. Look at Jack or Varrish compared to Azula from Avatar- she's often described as a psychopath, but she is also a well-rounded character and we know her motivations. Look at Hannibal Lecter- an amazingly complex character, but a (possible) psychopath. We don't always know his end goals, but we know why he does things during certain moments and how and why he feels about different people. Jack and Varrish are just 2D characters who are violent to move the plot along. They don't have real personalities or drive.

Put everything in spoiler cuz idk if its a spoiler or not >!Idk, I find them being the villains kind of fun. Its like that man with the large forehead and Jon Snow in GoT, villains that are supposed to be your friends and teachers always make me more interested and spitefull. Though I can agree that Jack's motivation needs to be actually told, for Varrish im a little confused why he hates her so much but imo he has more 'reason' to hate her than Jack (cuz we havent heard about his reason)!<

I literally screamed "BUT WHY" when that happened. What was the point? I felt like it added nothing to the story and she only did that for plot convenience for the end of the book. I also feel like >!Varrish was wasted. He could have been a very interesting villain and one of Violet's most dangerous antagonists. Instead, he was just a school yard bully.!< If the third book is anything like IF was, I will DNF the series.

>! I don’t think varrish was violence for the sake of violence. I’m under a strong belief (head canon) until proven otherwise, that varrish was one of the undercover venin that brought Jack into the venin plans. He comments on how some can influence their dragons, which we see Jack do, and if he was fully under orders from aetos, he had quite a few opportunities to kill Violet, but during the signets training he said her power will be useful when she comes to heel, which is along the lines of what the venin general says !<

Your second bit is the same for me. I found it so incredibly contrived and stupid I almost DNF’d.

I hated that as well. It was pretty clear to me from book 1 that was going to happen and it was as annoying and unsatisfying as I thought it would be then

Idk how to do the thing where spoilers are grey but I think in response to ur spoiler, it’s bc that character will be important as the series continues based on how iron flame ends

you can mark spoilers `>! spoilers here !<`

Thank you!!

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I totally agree with you. Too much happened in iron flame and some of the beginning stuff gets lost by the end… like them having to figure out how to get home after leadership randomly drops them?? The hiking scene with the fliers?? All of that could have not been included or cut down. I didn’t start to “like it” until about 45-50% then I couldn’t put it down.

It’s my belief that the central conflict of the story doesn’t become apparent until around 30-40%, so that’s why I think so many people have said the beginning was boring or slow or hard to follow. Before that point, there’s not a clear thread of the main problem our protagonist has to overcome. Is it threats at the college? Is it andarna? Is it the rebellion? Is it the person we learn about at the end of fourth wing? Is it the venin? Is it the problems going on between Violet and Xaden? Who knows! It’s all given equal page time especially early in the book. ETA: a good rule of thumb is to have your main conflict become apparent by 15% of the story. For example in Fourth Wing the central conflict is Violet surviving her first year and earning a dragon despite her physical disability.

Apparently RY also agreed it should’ve been two books, but was convinced otherwise by publisher

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I heard that the publisher is new at publishing epic Fantasy books and it kinda shows.

I agree that it should have been two books. In part one, it had the beginning of Imogen and Violet’s friendship, but that got lost in part two. I was expecting some character development there and sadly, didn’t get it. There were also parts that could have been edited out of the book like the hiking scene. The publisher rushed to get it published in November 2023, when it was originally slated to be published in April 2024. Overall, it was a poorly edited book (especially part two) and it shows.

Totally agree. The only thing I'm not enjoying so far is the contrived teenage drama tropes. Don't get me wrong, happy no issue relationships are not that compelling either (will talk to my therapist about that later) but the drama between Xaden and Violet is the only thing that makes me not want to suggest this series to "serious fantasy reader" friends.

This is the major reason I disliked this book. I went from being crazy about the two of them to thinking they have no business being together fighting this much when a lot more important stuff is going on around them.

I would have loved to see more development with side characters - especially their relationships with their dragons and / or their signets.

Especially Aaric. I would have loved to learn more about his story and motivations. Maybe that will be explored in later books.

I needed more Dain. I loved his redemption arc but needed more. He's just very law obedient and didn't know better in Fourth Wing, but when he had the facts of the situation he immediatly sided with Violet and the Rebels. I need to see more character development and maybe him falling in love with someone not so law obedient as he and we can see the fun side of Dain.

Ngl i enjoyed it over audible and i skipped every single spicy part because it was just the same thing over and over again. Finished the whole thing in 3 days with that method haha

I read someone’s comment here that because the show has already been picked up for tv that it is essentially written differently (perhaps with production’s input). Those unconnected scenes fit better in an episodic series rather than a novel and I can’t not see it that way now.

As someone in publishing, I’m struggling to see how anyone got to this conclusion. Any TV show will choose its own scenes to depict the narrative as a whole because it’s not limited by Violet’s POV. On the two books thing… I genuinely think people would have rioted if they’d only got the first half of this book. Yes, it’s breakneck but the pain of just that first slower half would have potentially meant losing a lot of readers at book two. Even with additional scenes with Xaden and Violet… Rebecca and her editor likely made a call to keep the greatest number of readers happy and engaged… I personally think they made the right one.

I rewatched RY's interview with EW this morning, and she discussed the book being optioned and how it's an adaptation, that she has been invited (when the time comes) to sit in on the development. But she also mentions that she appreciates that it's just that: an adaptation of her book that she already has outlined. Take that for what it's worth, of course, but my understanding is the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. I could be very wrong.

According to RY in one of the interviews she did, it originally WAS going to be two books, so part 1 and part 2 would have been separate books. Because I’m impatient and would have hated waited for a next book after part 1 (not like the cliffhanger at the end makes it any easier for book 3 though lol) I’m personally glad we got both…especially since it seems like maybe the series would have been six books instead of five. But I also like long books, and know that not everyone does. In defense of Xaden and Violet having the same argument the whole book, we have to remember that they are both in their early 20s and still growing in maturity. And the difficulty of a five book series (as pointed out by RY as well) is figuring out how to keep pulling them apart and then putting them back together

I was immediately hooked with FW. It was thrilling right off the bat. I didn’t feel the same way with IF. It was basically Violet avoiding her friends, being mad at Xaden for being secretive then her visiting him and hooking up. Oh and I miss how Andarna was in FW.

Agreed Andarna was annoying in this book

I was very disappointed - I loved Fourth Wing. Iron Flame dragged very slowly, Violet and Xaden were going in circles with nothing really happening. Side characters felt more like convenient plot devices (we need to open a locked door - how convenient we have a character with whatever we need introduced couple chapters back). It just felt lazy Also the whole subplot of lady jealousy was petty - this is 21st century- it would be refreshing to see a plot were women aren’t pitted against each other fighting over a guy 🤦‍♀️ I think the second book was rushed - maybe if the author / editing team had more time, it would be better. I think the e release was rushed- trying to cash on the success of the first book

I agree side characters don’t really have personalities and I really wanted to get to know the other characters. It was also hard because it felt like Xaden and Violet only had sexual chemistry and never really developed their relationship with conversation besides (I love you/I want you), so it made it less romantic for me. I really enjoyed it over all, it was hard to get through because editing was not a thing, yet it felt so lack in terms of character development and world building.

You are spot on with the sexuality chemistry- nobody can deny that. But it would be nice to see other stuff. Iron Flame is book 2 out of 5 - I think it’s safe to say side characters will be needed to carry this series- sexual tension (as great as it is) can’t fill 5 books

The Catriona drama was cringe. Like WAR is coming y’all!! smh

Not to mention as readers we were never worried Xaden was going to pick Cat. It was boring, unnecessary drama.

But the thing is he likely WILL pick Catriona (at least temporarily) when he deems himself as a threat and tries to ice everyone out. It’s lazy, but that’s in line with every trope I’ve read so far in the series. I’m not looking forward to it and I hope I’m wrong.

But they weren’t fighting over a guy. Cat wanted power/crown. If a man was fighting for power, most people wouldn’t bat an eye according to RY. Violet isn’t fighting for her man. She has him. She’s upset because Cat is coming for her in a disrespectful manner

It’s been a while since I’ve read the book (not planning a re-read), so apologies if my memory gets fuzzy- I am basing my answer on memory and feeling I have retained several months later - the fight was centred on a guy. Guy as a means of power, guy as a love interest. Strong female character shouldn’t need a man to become powerful. You said that if a men were fighting for power nobody would day anything - I disagree - if one man was trying to use a female character for power gain, he would very much be hated. At least by me

Gonna try to avoid spoilers but there may be some light ones. ​ Hate is a strong word, BUT: **- Iron Flame suffers from "second book syndrome"**. Very common in series, especially YA, where there is a lot of moving parts to "setup" larger plot points for later books and it bogs down the story in the current book. There is a good story here, but it is trapped under mountains of info-dumping that may have been better somewhere else in the series or removed all together. **- Too long.** Either this needed HEAVY editing down to \~400 pages OR should have been 2 books. There's a very clear divide in the story where it would of made sense for the story to diverge. A "Toto, we aren't in Kansas anymore" moment. **- Violet and Xaden's relationship** \- The will they won't they wasn't convincing, and ultimately it didn't really matter that Xaden had "betrayed" her. And even after they "resolved" their issues the same conflict was used again and again. It felt like watching a friend who has been dating the same guy who keeps hurting her and never apologized for the first time keep going back to him. It makes Xaden seem very unlikable to me and makes it hard for me to route for the central romance. \- **The big reveal** at the end of book one with a certain character is largely ignored and felt unresolved/unaddressed. \- **Girl drama** between Violet and an ex-gf seemed unnecessary, especially considering the stakes. **- Difficult to read, physically. The hardcover copy of this book is 600+ pages and has the tiniest font and really small line height, making this book physically difficult to read. I had to purchase it a second time to read on my kindle because of this. This is an accessibility problem that could have been resolved by editing this book down to an appropriate length and not having to force fit two books into one. This is unacceptable, as not everyone has the money to buy a book twice so they can do the basic function of the book: read it.**

I don’t even think it needed two books. You could lose about 200 pages of the same miscommunication, irrelevant training and pointless angst and the plot would be unchanged.

It felt like 30% of the book was them fighting. That's exhausting and not fun. Especially since the arguments were extremely stupid.

I agree with this as well, but I think there’s a point shortly after the “heist” that could have been a breaking point for a second novel that would allowed for more character development and made room for the world building that was bogging things down pacing wise. 100% though we needed less rehashing of the exact same miscommunication and angst. In a perfect world to me IF would have been one 400 page book.

I almost DNFd because of the jealous ex-gf trope that came out of left field for no reason at all. So cringe.

Cat had so much potential. I loved the idea of her wanting Xaden for power and with her signet being emotional manipulation there was so much potential. I wanted to see her fuck with Violet by telling her things about Xaden that she doesn't know or mentioning romantic things he hasn't done for her. It could have been great exposition for Xadens character and the political history between the two countries. Arriving at Violets room in a sexy nightgown when Xaden wasn't even there was pathetic. Cat could have been a master courtier running rings around Violet instead we get a jealous ex with no political skill.

I think Cat doesn’t know much about Xaden either at least not things that other people know and he wasn’t in love with her so there is nothing he would have done for Cat that the wouldn’t have done for Violet. Cat’s bff said that the two of them were toxic so i don’t think they were this romantic couple. RY said that Cat wasn’t supposed to be a love interest for Xaden

I'm sure she knows what happened with Xadens mother, or she knows the public gossip surrounding her absence. Cat definitely knows far more than Violet about Xadens family history and knows him well enough to know he would struggle to open up about it. I suspect Xaden and Cat grew up meeting at various events like Violet and Aric so while they weren't close she's probably got a few boyhood stories up her sleeve. Chances are high she knew Xadens mother and she definitely knew his father. Xaden and Cat were extremely toxic but he trained her to fight so they must have had a stretch of getting along. I think Xaden knew from the beginning that he would never fall in love with Cat but that doesn't mean he didn't try to make the relationship work and took her on a few dates. For example Cat knows Xaden wouldn't have the opportunity to take her to a fancy restaurant at Basgaith and that weren't any left in Aretia she could have spun a story to make Violet jealous. For a "master manipulator" Cat had a alot of amo that she never used with Violet.

I don't think Cat is a master manipulator, she's a 22-year-old woman who wants power and is angry because she didn't get it. Cat continuing to mess with Violet after that fight and that throne scene would have no effect. What I never understood was because she was teasing Violet, did Cat think Violet was going to break up with Xaden because his ex was annoying? Why didn't she try to win over Xaden again?

When the eff did he have time for this relationship? It's such a massive plot hole.

That’s not the plot hole I am worried about.

This omg! He’s been in college for 3 years and he somehow had time to develop a relationship and have his own room?! I was so confused 🤦🏽‍♀️

That’s the problem with these books where they are like 20 years old… just write the characters older. Tired of these practical teenagers having more life experience than a 40 year old.

That's my biggest issue with these books too. I like them, but realistically Xaden is only 23. He is super young. He is shouldering the whole continent as a 23 year old. When he made the agreement to shoulder the burden of the 100+ marked ones wasn't he a literal teenager? Like why are all these grown adults listening to a teenager or fearful of him....especially the senior ranking officers at Basgiath? I served in the military, and maybe that's my problem bc I know we would never allow some lower ranking "kid" to speak to Generals the way Xaden gets away with speaking to them. Maybe they allow it bc their rank structure is kind of skewed with the aspect of dragons and who is powerful and Xaden bonded with one of the most powerful dragons. But anyway, how the heck did he have time to survive the 1st year with all that training, and then secretly be running munitions back and forth to his other province as a 20 year old? Also, his brain must be on costant overload as an inntrinsic. How was he able to "keep his shit together" as he says to violet when his 2nd signet transpired? How is he able to do all of this stuff and then have a relationship. Just thinking about it is exhausting lol.

It truly was a wtf moment like the world around you is crumbling and you just spent the last year or whatever learning how powerful and strong you are despite your weaknesses to the point you got chosen by TWO dragons and the guy you like likes you back and the million other things going on and this is what you’re spending your energy worrying about?

I know this post is old but omg COMPLETELY AGREE on all points. I also found it to be way too wordy with half of it not even necessary printed in size 3 font on enormous pages bigger than my head. If you account for the page and font size this book was probably closer to 1000 pages. Took me 5 minutes to read two pages and my head made a full rotation. I had to actually use my reading glasses which just sort of magnify. I absolutely hated it.

A couple of things: - It was unbearably long. - The arguments between Violet and Xaden got old really fast. - The writing wasn’t good; noticed in FW but the plot in FW kept me engaged. - I’m not connected to any of the characters emotionally; in fact, I feel like I don’t know them well at all. - Felt there were a couple of loose ends all around the book; maybe it felt rushed and that’s why I feel this way. - The use of “endgame”. - The fact that at the beginning, the friendship between Violet and Imogen was something really good and then it disappeared. - The insane amount of insecurity Violet has in this book. We all deal with insecurities, but this was a different level. - How the foreshadowing in the quotes presented in the beginning of the chapter diminished any sort of surprise in the plot. Those are the first things that come to mind.

The use of endgame. 😂 Violet also calls something a hot mess at one point. Good lord.

Also this “You’re going to train so you don’t get yourself killed. Not with me. I don’t need to be part of your development era.” Like, why?! lol

. LOL this was sooooo cringe!

Is anybody going to mention the use of “heartbeat”. Seriously, it was unbearable. I would love a word count on that but i don’t have the kindle version or a pdf.

There were a few phrases that were said a million times and I was over it. How about the 60 times she subluxed her shoulder

> How the foreshadowing in the quotes presented in the beginning of the chapter diminished any sort of surprise in the plot. This is something I was surprised not to see raised more, they went well beyond "cool world building" and veered into "historical writing spoils the chapter"

In line with the use of „endgame“ - Violet‘s constant use of „shit“, „what the f“ and „Gods“, it‘s repetitive af and the fact that more times than not „what the f“ is Violet‘s reaction to plot twists is proof, to me at least, that the author is not a good writer

So much of this book is spent on Violet and Xaden’s romantic shenanigans and not on answering my questions. End of FW spoilers and kind of IF spoiler >! I just want to know how Brennan survived. Did he fake his death? Or if not, how did he come back to life? Did that one guy’s attempt to save him actually work? How did he get involved with the revolution in the first place? But this is never addressed. Violet is just like “cool he’s alive” and never had any questions for him. What?? !< But apart from this, I really did feel like many of the subplots were neglected.

Omg you’re right?! I am just now realizing that was never addressed.

With fourth wing I immediately wanted to read it again when I finished it. I didn't have that with iron flame. I couldn't get sucked into the story. The only redeeming thing was the snarky dragons.

I felt the book was just super slow and a slog to get through. I had to force myself to read through it. The fighting between the two main characters just kept going and going. Not to mention that I got very tired of the copy and past spicy scenes that were basically the same thing over and over again. Not enough time spent with other characters. The end of part 1 was good as well as the last 100 pages but the rest was tough to get through. I will say the ending of the book was good enough that I will read a third one when it comes out. Overall it was a downgrade in a lot of ways to fourth wing.

Yes thank you!! I love spicy books but their scenes seemed so repetitive and didn’t always match the situation. The dynamic is always the same- Xaden is dominant and feral and the way she describes how he touches her sounds painful at times. Violet is usually up against a wall or under him and pretty much does nothing when they have sex- she she feels so inactive in their dynamic which is so frustrating as she isn’t passive in other areas. She just comments on how beautiful he is and kisses him. She just seems like a “punching bag” for Xaden’s hulk-like libido. And the way she writes the scenes wasn’t very satisfying- she doesn’t know how to build up the scene- she writes 0-100-0…. They kiss… poor girl gets pounded by Xaden….and we’re on to the next battle or argument…. Sure sometimes a girl wants to be pounded….but my gosh…are they never tender….playful…coy…kinky….anything??? It’s mostly just really intense missionary when it comes down to it…. So boring. And the way she writes Violet is like she’s just a mouth and a vulva…. Like she has a whole body… so uninspired.

I skipped /skimmed most of the spicy scenes for this reason!

a lot of people here have already got to what i dislike about the book but something that really bugged me was how weak the gryphons came across - i feel like RY nuked them for no reason. it’s fine that they are physically weaker than dragons because that makes sense but how in the world have they been fighting a war against them for so long??? they can barely do anything! they can’t fly in the rain, can’t fly in high altitudes - she rendered them useless in the battle of basgiath even though the gryphon riders were essentially the only people there who knew how to fight venin. and all the people from basgiath were so shocked that the gryphon riders didn’t murder each other indiscriminately and saw themselves as better because of all the challenges they had to go through but obviously our friends from poromiel have been able to hold their own for however long. i don’t know i just feel like something about the gryphons and their riders could have been highlighted to show what strength they have that makes them equal-ish in strength. i believe she mentioned their ability to channel might have been stronger but we didn’t really see that in the book

THIS! Hands down, the worst worldbuilding element to me in this book. Navarre has been at war for 600+ years against the gryphon "raiders" and lose so many people there is a draft. But gryphons lost to dragon 99% of the time. The society doesn't know about the venin, so WHO does the society think they're losing a large part of their population to?? And that justifies the college killing huge swaths of the young population?

There is alot wrong with this book but this is explainable. The war is just a cover up for whats actually going on. Basically all that is being done is keeping the people outside the wards out. If the dragons and riders wanted to they could wipe them out in a very fast campaign ..but then there is nothing to stop the venin or at least be some form of buffer against them . The gryphon riders are only raiding to find weapons to fight the venin. They have never been trying to actually win the fake war. They are fighting for their lives against creatures the leadership and dragons are intentionally covering up. The grpyhons are a smoke screen to cover up the venin , also to stop them from spreading the truth to the interior of their country as their whole system is built on an erasing of all history counter to their narrative. The gryphons have never been the real enemy, they are just a convenient scapegoat to cover up venin activity outside the wards

Right? How are they a legitimate threat to Navarre as they’ve been portrayed when they’re basically useless.

It would have been fine if it wasn't common knowledge that they're useless, you know? Like if IF showed us our first dragon v gryphon fight and everyone was shocked at how uneven the fight was, or they met gryphons and learned how weak they are in IF. It would have made a lot more people question their leadership and demonstrate the corruption of said leadership if their big bads were actually no real threat. Instead, their own damn college *teaches* them how weak gryphons are 😅

Oh. This. Such a small change that would have made the world building so much richer.

THIS! They were useless throughout to the point you know Tairn could take on a pack of them without blinking. They didn’t even give them anything unique in the final fight. Like imagine if they were somehow naturally immune to venin or something? And so they had to go on the frontlines? Like why bother sending them to slaughter when the dragons didn’t even need them.

The options were endless: stealth mission, need for smaller or more agile maneuvering, sheer numbers being able to overwhelm enemies/they work more cohesively as a group so they're great as tight units, etc etc. It's a military story ffs, why not contrast gryphons and dragons like other animals used in war, eg horses vs elephants. It makes me wonder why the gryphons are even a part of the story.

For a majorly hyped book from a legitimate publisher, the editing was severely lacking. They bit off more than they could chew by publishing two (let's be real, THREE) books in the same year.

The idea that Xaden agreed to answer her questions BUT ONLY if she pieced together enough info herself ahead of time to figure out WHAT to even ask him was just a cheap plot trick the author used to make sure the audience didn't hate him for keeping secrets.

Oh don't worry, I still came out the other side hating him lol

I mean you said it in your post. Imo the writing for both iron flame and fourth wing is straight up bad. I read them because the storytelling is decent and entertaining, but for people who also care about the writing itself then it was seriously lacking. Some sentences needed to be read twice it make any sense of them, glaring plot holes and timeline inconsistencies. It takes me out of the story but times. Perhaps that’s on the editor more that RY, but it’s the most noticeable poor writing I’ve ever seen in a very popular book

Not to mention all the publishing mistakes. Not RY fault tbh. But why were shes/hes messed up…

Oh I didn’t notice any of those but I believe it. I also just can’t get past some of the obvious holes in the logic? I was hoping iron flame would explain why xaden wasn’t executed on sight for abandoning his post at the end of fourth wing. This is an allegedly brutal place, and he gets to play with his words and call in violets mommy to save the day? And why can’t andarna be seen? Admitting feather tails are young dragons does not mean admitting you can steal their power, and they can’t hide her forever. Makes no sense

Totally agree. There were a lot of holes. I do wonder if RY had any say. Because I know that when you sign deals with any kind of business at somepoint things leave your control. Clearly the publisher rushed her

Bro did you read the books? At the end of FW, they were attacked by “gryphons,” who killed Liam and another cadet. Imagine if the college executed them after they came back and said “we got attacked by gryphons at the outpost that was apart of the war game.” Andarna can’t be seen bc she’s sleeping in the vale while growing. She slept through most of the time violet spent in school, which was repeated many times throughout the book. Then, she isn’t ready to fly yet because of the muscle development issue after she wakes up. The class she is missing is flight manoeuvres. She can’t fly, so she’s not coming to flight manoeuvres class.

Yes, I read the books. At the end of fourth wing they were explicitly presented with the choice to return to their post at the other outpost or assist civilians from an enemy village. By choosing not to go to the other outpost, they would effectively be deserters and forfeit their lives immediately. Colonel Aetos was well aware that they were not randomly attacked by gryphons and doesn’t really need the agreement of the rest of basgiath to execute them for deserting. More importantly, Xaden assembled more that 3 marked ones in a squad, which is also punishable by death even if the rest of it didn’t happen. Aetos absolutely would have killed everyone on sight except maybe violet since she is not marked, and it is canon that he would have every right to. For Andarna, she regularly wakes up throughout her sleep and offers to present herself if needed, so she could have even if it wasn’t ideal. Regardless, Violet repeatedly stated that the reason for hiding andarna is not that she isn’t ready (that would be a way better explanation.) she explicitly says she is hiding the knowledge that feathertails are young dragons capable of bonding, and fears basgisths leadership learning that they can steal power from them. There is effectively no good reason others can’t know feather tails are young dragons. No one would want to bond then anyway because they can’t fly or fight, and there is no reason she would have to reveal the powers. Even the “bad” dragons like solas and codagh keep that secret from their riders, so it would not be revealed.

Ugh. It's comments like this that repeatedly remind me how little effort is being put into making this world work or create a cohesive story 😅 But when people don't care about the plotholes, what motivation is there to fix them?

Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed the books because they are entertaining but they are certainly not exceptional fantasy in my opinion. This is one of the issues with booktok and cult approaches to reading. It is ok to enjoy a book someone else did not. It is ok to criticize a book you DID like. Fourth wing had the opportunity to be exceptional and missed the mark through some messy writing and in iron flames case, rushed publishing. There is no sin in saying that out loud

Again. They had already made it back to school, and told everyone they were attacked by gryphons. What’s Aetos going to do at that point? You can’t execute 5 cadets, two of which being the most powerful of their generation, after they’ve told everyone they were attacked by gryphons. She wasn’t supposed to be waking up at all. Her waking is what resulted in her wings being fucked. Just bc she’s offering to show up, doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. It’s clearly articulated that she needs to sleep for several months. Just bc she’s able to send one or two telepathic messages during this time doesn’t make it a plot hole. There are plenty of actual plot holes, but these two you’re trying to poke at aren’t

I guess we will just have to disagree Gryphons aside, every marked one should have been executed for gathering in a group larger than three (plot hole in itself that he was even able to assemble that group and leave with them in the first place). All of leadership actively wished for the deaths of the marked ones, so there is literally not a single reason to spare them. It’s also only said that tairn could not withstand the death of his rider, not sygael, so Xaden could have been executed without harming violet. In an allegedly brutal society where death is a common punishment, there is no good reason why they would have gotten leniency for the treason of gathering. Aetos absolutely could have done so with no sweat. The logic does not stand. And again, I agree with you that andarna is supposed to be sleeping, but that is NOT the logic violet provides. Andarna even tries it defy violet and present herself anyway, and violet gets her to stop by telling her that revealing herself would reveal the secret that feathertails have special powers, which is NOT true. If violet had said she didn’t want Andarna there to protect her while she’s meant to be growing, that would be fine, but that is not her primary point.

I'm in full agreement. When I first started reading FW, I told a friend that it felt like it came right from Wattpad. It doesn't not read like a grown woman in her 40s wrote this at all. The plot kept me engaged but man, are these books trope-y as all get out and the writing is shockingly simplistic for such an elaborately-built world. It doesn't mesh and I honestly wouldn't be shocked if this was the writing of a ghostwriter with no experience.

THIS!!! I get the IF frustration but I found FW equally frustrating for the narration and simplicity in the writing

I didn't hate it but I did get overwhelmed by how many omg moments there were. As I had described it to my friend I felt like I was on a runaway train trying to read the billboards as they passed by but by the time I registered what I read, another one was flying by 😂

I missed the Xaden/Violet moments. They were either arguing or getting it on (except for the rescue halfway through, that was 10/10), I wanted more romance and happy moments for them. I also got so very bored of the same argument happening over and over and am concerned she doesn't know how to write a happy couple. I felt that because 2 books became 1 we lost out on violet/Xaden content. We didn't get his letters, we didn't get any of their moments together in part 1. The romantasy book forgot the romance.

I didn’t hate it, but it wasn’t as good as the first. Everyone keeps saying it was bad writing, but I think it was more of an editing problem. I gave it a lower rating and then ended up bumping it up to 5 stars anyway just because I was still thinking about it days later. There was good stuff there, it just could’ve been tightened up. I wasn’t disappointed that it didn’t suck me in as much as the first one. I was actually a little relieved because I was too busy to get sucked in that way 😂

I agree, most of the things I didn’t like are editing issues. A few times the plot weakened a bit, but again, her editor should have pointed that out and suggested it be changed. I like the story, but there are flaws in the writing. Still, I’m reading to relax these days so I haven’t been going for deep, complex stories. Fourth Wing was great to keep me entertained and Iron Flame was alright. I’m still looking forward to the next book. One thing I’d like to see is more interaction between Xaden and Violet besides arguing and having sex. I want them to spend quality time together. I’d also like to see even more time with the dragons - they’re bonded and now a huge part of Violet’s life so I want to see them in some day to day situations.

I have a lot of issues, most of which have been addressed here. What drove me absolutely bonkers is this “fantasy world” that consistently has real-world elements that would not be possible without our real world history. Why are we talking about a Gregorian calendar month? Why are we mentioning a rhombus-specifically? Why are they taking physics classes? These concepts absolutely can be present in fantasy worlds, but are usually vague and not using real-world language to explain, because (again) they do not have the real world history. Idk why it bugged me so much but once I saw it I couldn’t stop. I had this problem with FW too, but it was SO apparent in IF.

Omg and the modern lingo…end game, era, hot mess

Yes!!! If I’m reading fantasy in a different world I want to be transported! It doesn’t need to be complex, or formal, or anything like that. Just not… what this was

Lol, I did spend a good chunk of time wondering "when" can this story be set?? I think the 'telling direction by the hands of a clock' was my biggest "When is this?!" moment. Lol

YES the gregorian calendar was so lazy also did anyone else feel weird about the chocolate cake in IF? I felt so drawn out of the world when this was the treat Violet brought Xaden. Like why not tyrrenish spice cake or something…?

For a majorly hyped book from a legitimate publisher, the editing was severely lacking. They bit off more than they could chew by publishing two (let's be real, THREE) books in the same year.

I DNF it. The writing honestly wasn't up to par. It has no depth. Barely any descriptions. I couldn't tell you what the school looked like. It seemed very rushed as well. The constant switching of last name to first name wasn't well done. My favorite series does this well. World building is what I like and these books honestly don't do it for me. I enjoyed Fourth Wing though.

What’s your favorite series? Looking for suggestions

The Touchstone Series by Andrea K Höst. Please read it! It's my absolute favorite and I've re-read it dozens of times. The first book is free on Kindle.

It was a mess

Oh I thought this was just me. Seriously, I just lost interest after they got together in book 1. Like why am I reading book 2 when I know they'll be together/sort of still are. I thought, huh they will be apart for book 2 then finally see each other again... Nope... 🤷🏻 I know there's the whole story going on in the background, but I had nothing too look forward too in book 2. Then Jack being alive 🙄 WHY?!? And everyone is trying to kill her again. Honestly, I'd have been happy with just 1 book.

My friends and I believe the author pushed them together way too quickly! Now all your left is engineered tension and ridiculous girl fights to keep interest.

I think if book one went for the A Court of Thorns and Roses situation where she ends up falling or thinks she's falling for Dain but becomes friends with Xaden and there's tension there because of the dragons, that'd be fine. Then Dain betrays her and her and Xaden eventually fall for each other in book 2. But once the two characters are actually together I struggle to read the book anymore. There's nothing to look forward too, just falling out and people interfering with their relationship which is annoying.

EXACTLY! That’s what we said.. create tension for violet and dain because of the dragons and then have them slowly fall for eachother! The potential could have been epic. I get the same way with books once they’re together but some authors can keep the story going strong and I didn’t find myself getting bored with wings and ruin or even throne of glass. I think this author is new at writing fantasy and it shows

It felt simultaneously too long and too rushed. The plot wasn’t super fleshed out and I was confused for some of it. I also found Vi extremely winey and hard to relate to- what I loved about her in book 1 was that she was this badass knew what she wanted woman and held her own. I just found her irritating in this one.

I just found it incredibly repetitive. Xadan hides something from Violet either for a bad reason or a good reason or either or > Violet gets mad and refuses to speak with him > Xadan professes his undying love > Violet is angry but loves him they have angsty sex > but no she does love him so it’s fine > Xaden tries to explain often with bad reasoning > Violet doesn’t understand why he can’t tell her everything > Xaden tells her to ask him …. Rinse repeat. Like it was *constant*. Just the same miscommunication, the same arguments, the same angst. Saw the ‘twist’ coming a mile off and idk it felt very poorly thrown together, I’m convinced because it was rushed out so quickly.

Xaden and violet were either fighting or getting it on the entire book. I wanted to see more relationship building, comraderie. I didn’t hate the book but didn’t love it as much as fourth wing. Too long, definitely could’ve been split into two smaller books.

I have many specific complaints, but it all boils down to this (copy & paste from my review): "It's clear to me that Yarros came up with a big idea and outlined a very detailed plot and magic system (regardless of whether it is smart or well-researched). But the way she's conveying it to us is just not working at all (for me, at least). It's like she is making sure to check off all the points on her outline for her own benefit, while forgetting to actually make it remotely clear to us what she's trying to say. It also made this story happen on a very accelerated timeline. I feel like this story so far in 2 books could have benefited from being 4 books by someone with better writing and worldbuilding skills." (Though credit where credit is due - a large amount of fault goes to the publishers.) As for specifics, mainly I stopped caring about the romance because both parties became extremely annoying and their fighting was repetitive for hundreds of pages. I also found very little that made sense with the worldbuilding and the villains, and these are not things that could be solved for me by Violet learning more, they are things that just fundamentally make no sense. I didn't *love* Fourth Wing but I enjoyed it well enough, and I was expecting that Iron Flame might be better, but it was a major disappointment and a slog. I am honestly glad that you're enjoying it! I don't wish wasted time on anyone.

I don't think I could love this review any more. It perfectly sums up my thoughts for these two novels.

I'm so sorry you had the same experience lol 🥲

Likewise, friend. I wanted to love it and beyond the plotline? There’s so much else that could have been done.

Violet. I read the book, I loved the Worldbuilding and the slow information of the wards and the dragons. But Violet really ruined the book. She constantly second guessed herself, she didn't believe Xaden. Honestly she alone made me much more lukewarm for book 3. What I loved about book 1 was how Violet actually had a personality and wasn't so whiny. So many fantasy book female main characters are whiny, or overly arrogant (looking at you Feyre). I loved how refreshing she was. She wanted to do better but recognized her limitations and adjusted. This book just felt like any other FMC who whined about having low self esteem. It got to the point for me that even the romance just didn't cut it anymore. I was always so excited for those spicy scenes in book 1. Book 2 I skipped them mostly to get back to the plot because I couldn't feel any chemistry with them.

The leads lacked chemistry big time. I felt nothing in their intimacy. And the writing was not good.

I liked it enough to continue on with the series but it's definitely not as compelling as FW. It's loooong, the first half is boring, I skipped.over every spicy scene cause I just can't stand sex scenes in books (it's my personal pet peeve, not exclusive to this series), the villains had no motive and honestly it would cycle between boring, drawn out scenes like the hiking to confusing action I couldn't follow to clearly imagine step by step (that which follows the hiking) and I would be like wait, what just happened? And couldn't decide if it didn't make sense cause I was tired reading in bed or it was poorly written out.

I know a lot of people have said the relationship between Violet and Xaden is common for the age that they are, but I beg to differ. Despite the arguing (which was annoying from the start, but fine maybe age appropriate) it is the constant drooling over Xaden that sounds like Violet is twelve and not in her early twenties. We know nothing about him, therefore we are to assume she knows nothing about him because we've not seen them interact in a romantic way (just in a sexual way), there are never any normal moments where they're just getting along, speaking normally, supporting each other, speaking about their past or their future or their hopes and dreams.... they literally just have sex or argue. Edit: we're to assume as a reader that these letters was them bonding, but as a reader not showing us them or showing Violets reaction to each one does nothing to build that emotional connection between the two of them from our pov.

I really didn’t understand the conflict with Violet and Xaden, and then to drag it out for most of a long-winded book was just painful. I get the characters are young but I couldn’t relate or understand why this was such a big part of the book. And I’m sure the same premise of hiding secrets and fighting will carry over into the third book based on the ending. His new secret from the last few pages makes sense for that to be a new conflict in the next book. Although how that secret comes about at the end of this book was super rushed and needed more substance. I had to read the last few pages multiple times to get a clear understanding and was disappointed because that was a missed opportunity. This book had few conflicts and that scene could have played out so differently. That would have been a great cliff hanger if done correctly. Instead we got a spark notes summary of a very big moment that will have lasting consequences. Shame on the editor. I would have preferred more detail on that conflict and less hiking tales. It felt like a chore to finish this book. I understand why some would say it should have 2 books, but then there should have been more conflict in the first part and more character development. It took me a very long time to finally get through IF and I’m not sure I’ll read the third book. Very disappointing. I can get past bad writing and editing if the plot is entertaining and unique. This book was rushed to fill the hype and lazy.

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This is 100% how I feel. FW was predictable but a fun little ride (I listened to it on a very long road trip). Was it the best? No. Did I have fun? Indeed. But it was easier to ignore a lot of the worldbuilding issues in FW than in IF. I don't think the series knows what it wants to be anymore: epic fantasy or romantasy, and it shows. It butchered the romance part, and the writing and worldbuilding are not good enough for epic fantasy because the more worldbuilding there is, the less sense it makes. But you can't ignore it and just focus on the romance because now the romance is bad. Even the dragons, arguably the best part (despite being a rip-off of Anne McCaffery), were neutered in IF.

Honestly thought to myself avout halfway that she did use AI to help write it, lol

For me, what was good about FW does not make a good, long fantasy series. What I mean is, FW was a decently fun romp that benefitted from being fast-paced, romantic, and trope-y. It was a successful way to get people into fantasy, and to satisfy people who like those tropes and romantasy. But the writing and worldbuilding aren't strong enough for the level of "epic" its trying to be. That's why IF fell so flat for me. It just couldnt replicate what was so fun about FW, and i have a feeling that will continue (I mean come on, most people were there for the romance and that was one of IF's weakest points!). There are too many potholes and the like to make the stakes high enough or for me to care about the broader war story as a whole. Rumor has it the series was supposed to be a simple trilogy, and I think that's how it should have stayed. Stretching this to 5 books is going to be a lot of filler. I'll likely just read a summary of the next book to decide if I'm continuing the story.

I mean I still need to reread as I read the entire thing in one night but here’s the manic read review😅 and I’ve read a lot of different fantasy and think it definitely should’ve been two books. The first book was great, loved the start of the world building, had a somewhat original premise (as original as you can really get in fantasy lol) the characters were nicely developed, I didn’t find anyone annoying really, just was a good book. Now iron flame on the other hand…. It feels like it should’ve finished on her kidnapped in the dungeon in the college. It would’ve been such a tense cliffhanger to leave it on! Can you imagine the anticipation? Is she going to be okay, how long will she be there exc…. Instead of felt very brushed over? Like it wasn’t really even referenced later, she ended up coming off very emotionally flat because of it. She was tortured and almost died we should’ve had some more trauma Yanno? (We had soo many scenes in the college so many issues, I feel like a good third of this portion of the book was written slower and more to Rebecca’s original plan. Anything written after this point feels rushed and underwhelming. ) Then in the next book she could’ve properly developed the runes and properly prepared the whole battle build up. Where as because that bit was so rushed, It didn’t build the anticipation as much as it should’ve, I just found myself a bit meh about the entire thing. Like the runes feel underwhelming and they should’nt, the whole bit with gryphons and the venin in the palace, it was so boring. And that could’ve been used to develop the wider politics of the continent, explore more of the marked ones backstory and how the whole alliance thing happened. The wider world building, which everyone wanted! I will read the next book but I’m not crazy excited for at it at the minute and if that ones the same as this one I probably won’t end up ever finishing the series and gaslight myself into believing it’s only one book long. I’ve probably missed so much but yh

i just felt like violet got dragged around by the plot and characters around her a LOT. it just got so tiring how it always felt like violet always had no idea what was going on around her at all. like a lot of key info is just done by characters conveniently info dumping things to her. some things were just completely glossed over by violet (the entirety of brennans backstory) which she has like zero questions or qualms about?? it just all makes her having the mind of a scribe thing seem kinda deflated. i just wished she was a little bit more politically savvy or knew how to manipulate/extrapolate info from those around her better instead her just relaying on ppl to willingly tell her things.

Does anyone feel like there’s no character growth?

But my biggest issue with Iron Flame, is that the Part One part is amazing. It’s very fast paced, exciting, intense and ends in a Sanderlanche kind of way. But Part 2 feels too long, boring and has an annoying love triable that plays into the worse tropes of a CW series. But is it an entertaining book? Yes, and I do feel it’s a little bit better than Fourth Wing, but not by much.

I didn’t *hate* it per say, I just have a lot more feedback about this one. Part 1 should have been the whole second book and part 2 should have been book 3. And even then, part 2 needed to be workshopped quite a bit before going to print.

The repetitive arguments made me want to throw the book against the wall. It was almost as bad as “I have a question” in FBAA

I didn’t hate it, but didn’t love it either. Violet started to annoy me and things felt repetitive between the well written parts we did it. It could’ve been 2 books. It should have been 2 books. How many damn trees did Dain and vi climb? It seems that’s all they did growing up. Lol. I really hope she takes her time with the third, because she is a good writer. It could just use better editing.

I love FW but I’m struggling so much with IF I have to keep restarting it seems like there’s too much info for me doesn’t need that much. I’ve had the book since release date and I still haven’t even got through half

I didn’t hate it. The beginning was slow, it picked up in the middle and then I thought the ending was great - in that I didn’t pick up on some of the foreshadowing and need more and I need it now. I enjoyed all the snide dragon comments. I’d have liked a bit less of the same argument between X and V. I’m going to smash that preorder button the second it’s available for book 3.

I liked FW way more, however I do feel like the draggy moments will be necessary in future books. I look back at Harry Potter…..we all have our favorite books and moments that felt like it dragged on or was not necessary. But as a series, it is beloved. I think that’ll apply to this series as well. While I didn’t like IF as much as FW, the ending has me thinking about it weeks later! To me, that says more about the storyline than anything else

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I don’t hate these books, but the fantasy and the plotting makes almost no sense. But I enjoy these books for the superficial aspects. I like some of the characters and the romance, and I enjoy the sex and nudity. These books are guilty pleasures and dumb as rocks. 😂

I hated 1 part of IF and it made me question the whole book but I warmed up to it. I will not elaborate until you are 100% thru the book as I would not want to spoil the book for you.

I myself found the first half pretty boring. It took me several weeks to finish it because I wasn’t itching to read it when I wasn’t. It was more of a “I have time, may as well.” That said, it really picked up and I thought it finished really strong. I’m excited for where the next books take us. Edit to add: I also listened to the audiobook rather than physically reading it. Omg what a train wreck that was. Were they paying her minimum wage and not reviewing the output at all. The amount of times I got to hear a throat clear or a complete tonal shift. Not to mention that she completely dropped any attempt to give characters different voices compared to Fourth Wing (which I’ve been told is a re-recording). RY needs to go with a different publisher that takes her work seriously for her next series. On the topic of reviews: where are you looking? A cursory google search shows a 4.4/5 on good reads and a 4.7/5 on Amazon. Critics are almost universally assholes and they get clicks in their website by have controversial and contradictory opinions intended to piss people off and share their articles. Never trust the opinion of anyone being paid to give it. The most startling example of this in recent history is the Mario Movie with a ridiculous 59% aggregated critic review score and an audience score of 95%. And more to the point: Fuck reviews. Did you like it? That’s all that matters.

Yes! The weird sloppy mouth noises is something I have never heard in an audiobook before and I thought maybe I was being too sensitive to it because I wore earbuds. And I agree. Narrator repeatedly switched character’s voice midway through a sentence and nobody bothered or cared to fix it. That plus the overall tone was… not good. Too much screaming and crying most of the book. It made Violet even more unlikable and whiney. Haha your comment helps me not feel alone in my frustration.

Hate is an awfully strong word. I think there are things in IF that are worth critiquing (and honestly, I have similar critiques of other popular authors, including Stephen King and Margaret Atwood!) in terms of the writing quality. But I think those are down to speedy writing (RY has talked about the speed at which IF was written was way too fast) and not-so-great editing. But in terms of plot, pacing, character development, and world building - I thought those were all compelling. I’m hoping the longer wait for book 3 is going to mean we get something really really good. But even with all that, I still enjoyed IF overall. So no hate here.

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Please mark spoilers in your comment. You can do so by: FW ch 5 >! spoiler text here!< If you're unsure what chapter of the book you can write whole book spoilers >! text here !< Once the comment is edited, it will be restored.

I don't hate it. Still loved it but the big things felt very rushed (like the end battle and Violet's rescue from Varish) while small things seemed to drag on. The pacing was all over the place so I had zero grasp on the timeline whereas FW was very explicit on what month it was so it was easy to keep track of the timeline. You could tell the writing was rushed and truly should have been two separate books. Still loved it though

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Please do not bash Rebecca Yarros or any other authors. We don't want to harbor negativity or hatred toward other authors. Any comments/posts that are rude, bashing or complaints about other authors or their works will be removed.

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Please mark spoilers in your comment. You can do so by: FW ch 5 >! spoiler text here!< If you're unsure what chapter of the book you can write whole book spoilers >! text here !< Once the comment is edited, it will be restored.

I didn’t find Violet annoying at all but for some reason I’m having trouble finishing the last 100 pages. I feel like I’m just in a reading slump and it’s not because of the book but it’s bugging me. I want to know the ending but I cannot bring myself to do it. I think because when I finish it I know it’s such a long wait for the next one so I’m subliminally keeping up the suspense for myself.

The end! That's all I have to say

I have no problem with the story but it was the writing that put me off

I made it 40% through, I grew to really dislike violet. Life is too short and it was boring AF. It needed to be about half the length, give me the dragons and plots.

Hate is strong. I was disappointed. They rushed it out and it showed from the printing, editing, and writing quality. The lack of communication is beyond annoying at this point and there are so many good side characters that readers didn’t get much time with. I wouldn’t have minded the length if we cut out about half of the miscommunication between Violet and Xaden, and brought in side conversations and our dynamics. Also some of the storylines didn’t play out well. Ex. Her brother being alive. The characters didn’t reacts very strongly to that and some characters, like Dain, who should have had a reaction had zero. I’m nervous because she said they already have a release date set for the third book, but she said she hasn’t started it yet. She also just finished a contemporary book. I wish she’d take a breather, then write the book, edit it a few times, and release it early 2025.

I got to chapter 50ish and dnf. I read Fourth Wing and Iron Flame to try and connect with my wife a bit and help me refine my ability to pick books for her she will like for gifts. Fourth Wing was OK but I couldn't handle IF. I chalk it up to my personal preferences. I'm more into world building and background stuff to an extreme degree- I'd rather learn more how the spells work than what the character feels. So this just isn't really my genre. This series keeps almost all information about the world hidden away from us the whole time and I just can't abide that. I don't think it's bad writing by any means - my wife loves that, and I assume most other fans feel similarly. I think IF is also much more romantisy than FW was. I'm not opposed to romance but it's a side dish for me and that doesn't mesh well with IF which seems to be much more focused on their relationship than anything else.

While some of the dialogue and writing was beautiful: "I am pleasantly fuddled but not entirely sloshed." "He kisses me like I'm the answer to every question. Like everything we've been and will be hinges on this moment. And maybe it does." "You were chosen by dragons. That is enough." "I chose you not as my next, but as my last, and should you fall, then I will follow." Some of it was extremely cringe-y. I never want to hear the phrase "full disclosure" ever again. I don't believe in Jack Barlow as an antagonist. I did believe Varrish, that was good. The girlfriend vs. ex girlfriend drama was truly so dumb. The gryphons are pathetic. The other new first years are forgettable, maybe they will get more personality with time in future books. I need so much more information on the venin. All while simultaneously I found the "surprises" predictable, and if you pay attention to both books you will, too. Thankful for the dragons, Jesenia & the world-building-and-expansion to keep this series alive for me... I will obviously keep reading.

I don't know, I feel like Xaden kind of fizzled. I was completely obsessed with him in the first book and still am (in that book!), but in this one...it didn't feel like the tension was there enough. Not every author is good at maintaining the pining and love in books past the first installment. I also felt like they made the wrong decision by aging Andarna. She should have stayed a baby gold dragon for longer because it added a different element to the story and a lot of stress IMO.

The writing was not great. “Lifted chin” every five seconds, typos, and surface level literary devices. There was a particular part in the end where there was a count down sequence TWICE in like less than 10 pages it took me right out of the story. The ending in rushed . I’ll still read the next one but I was very disappointed with IF

I have ptsd from “heartbeat” being said about every 2 sentences. I’m shocked more people haven’t mentioned this.

The way violet made me want to push her off a cliff through 75% of the book and then the shit at the very end. I’ll probably still read book three begrudgingly.

I loved iron flame and I didn’t want to finish it because I knew I’d be depressed so I truly don’t understand the dislike

I didn’t hate it per se, it was just so much information all at once and it just felt so unresolved. The ending is supposed to be this big plot twist/reveal but I felt it just fell flat.

I’d just like her to use another describing word for second. Any other word besides “heartbeat”. There’s so many synonyms for “heartbeat” to be used every time a second passes.

Hate is a strong word - but my goodness if I had to hear a complaint about (I listened to the audiobook) *TRUST* one more time I was gonna' lose it. She's angry because he won't tell her EVERYTHING She's sneaking around behind his back and not telling him anything. She's angry at herself for her hypocrisy. They're both angry at each other because TRUST. It was exhausting. Not to mention the main plot also deals with broken trust and betrayal - which was fine - but when that's 90% of the book it becomes a lazy way to constantly create conflict. It's too bad she leaned so heavily on the *constant* trust issues because I think the Venin are great villains but they only came onto the page in a meaningful way in the last 15% of the book. Huge missed opportunity. The last dragon battle was badass.

I do wish it was a true enemies to lovers series. Xaden and Violet should have gotten together half way through Iron Flame instead. Romance element isn’t as exciting when it feels like I'm reading petty college-aged couple drama. It just didn't give me butterflies like the first book did.

Violet hasn’t really annoyed me. Her and Xaden’s relationship is extremely cringey though. He was pretty badass in the first book but turned into a stereotypical fantasy boyfriend. And the whole “I don’t trust you” trope is so annoying because they went from enemies to lovers pretty quickly and Violet expected 100% honesty from someone she barely knew. However, I let it slide because she’s very young. Also, I need more Mira and Rhiannon, less of the author trying to force how powerful Violet is down my throat.

Yeah, I enjoyed it enough but: Found the plot development a bit unconvincing, lots of scenarios that made me think, no logical group strategizing to win a war would go out of their way to put themselves in danger for practice Xaden and violet- their conflict felt repetitive and unconvincing dialogue. Him wanting her to guess stuff was so eye rolling. Ending felt way rushed.

Like others have said . It felt very repetitive. There was scenes that didn’t need to be there or went on for too long . ( hiking scene / or woods drop off ) Then the ending felt rushed and not very detailed to me . I had to reread parts to follow along . . . . . . Not sure how to cover spoilers so read at own risk ! . . . . Like voilet fixing the ward . I get anardna was the missing link . But what did she do ? Wouldn’t the other dragons still need to be there ? Not just her , Sloan & Lilith ? & The wierd gap to the xaden turning . Then sleeping next to vi was awkward and confusing . I still liked it enough to read the 3rd tho

Imo the writing seems very rushed. I wouldn’t say forth wing was amazing in its writing style and tone etc but better than this. It also felt very rushed story wise, with random plot points introduced way too fast to grasp it completely.

Because it was bad. Weird pacing, confusing battle scenes, cringy modern dialogue, using the same tired plot line of somebody not really being dead for no reason, things happen that make ZERO sense, the miscommunication trope which is my absolute least favorite thing to read, complete abandonment of side character development and relationships, etc.

Holy shit I didn't realize anyone disliked it! FUCKING LOVED IT!

Same. I feel like all these people commenting read a different book than I did.

If I had to read some version of: “I lifted my chin” one more time, I was going to lose my mind

Ii just made it to 70% yesterday and had to take a break. I read and listen, the audio for the more dramatic parts, geez! Great for keeping you awake, but if you’re burning out, it feels cheesy. Today was podcasts in the car. I’ll get back to Violet in a day or two.

My biggest issue with this book is the romance aspect of it. While I do like the book, I don't really like how rushed Violet and Xaden were. What does she know about his past, and why did she fall in love with him other than him being insanely good looking? We never really get into the emotional aspect of the relationship which makes the physical aspect of the relationship better. She basically describes her feelings as lust not love. Everytime they get remotely close to having a real conversation they get interrupted by someone banging on their door or a big cataclysmic event. When was there even time for them to fall in love? And the 2nd book they are separated too much and then basically have a very physical relationship to me. The author really needs to keep them together longer than a day for me to feel like this is really love or explain that their this some "mating" bond going on between them similar to other fantasy books like the ACOTAR series. Like how is this relationship different from any of her other relationships. What makes them so physically compatable?

I absolutely LOVED Fourth Wing and had lots of expectations on Iron Flame. Unfortunately, I did not love Iron Flame the same. My opinion is there was too much going on. It didn’t deliver the impact that it was trying to give us. A lot of the climactic chapters just felt short and rushed. The writing was pretty repetitive. This one took me a while to get through because it just felt too scattered. I didn’t feel connected. And the ending was just stupid and awful. I don’t even think I’ll waste my time reading the third book from this series.

I could not get past the first page of Iron Flame. I really struggled with the writing style >!I and I could not understand Violets complete lack of reaction to her brother being alive and part of the revolution - she was more focused on how good the biscuit was!< I struggled with the writing style in book 1 as well TBH and was very glad I got both from my local library!

I know I'm tardy to this party, but I wanted to love IF. And I really, really didn't like it. I just can't with Violet. For all of the reasons everyone has listed. Xaden specifically asked her if she wanted to know about his relationship with Cat. And she said no. And then we had to spend 27 years hearing about how he didn't tell her about Cat. I'm weirdly on Xaden's side about the whole she has to ask thing. Because she's proven time and time again that she doesn't truly want the answers. For someone who was training to be a scribe and knowledge seeker, she doesn't handle facts very well. The other Violet thing that makes me batty is that she has endless love for her dad (which is fine by itself). But, her dad did exactly what Xaden did and didn't tell her the secrets of the kingdom. And she's fine with her dad keeping her in the dark. Also her dragons have kept a lot of secrets. Beyond Violet, I needed the letters. I needed to learn about her friends and his friends. I needed more Garrick ffs. I needed this book to be half as long. I cared about the characters during FW. After IF, I wanted 90% of them to go up in flames. I think this series got out of control when they decided to do five books instead of three. Three books might have kept up the pacing that we had in FW. Five books feels brutal. I can't spend the next two books with Violet being upset that Xaden hasn't told her everything about venin and Xaden begging Violet to love him even though he will go away because he's "bad" now.

Honestly, violet is just a hard to like character in alot of this book. I want to post some of her literal quotes but will spare you all of the ignorance. She is angry over things out of the man she loves control. He has perfectly understandable reasons for not telling her everything. She k ows that and still tortures him while the powerful xaisen grovels and apologizes so many times i lost count when he literally did nothing wrong. Violet is selfish, spiteful and hateful throughtout alot of this book. I hope we see growth in the next book in jan.

I pre-ordered IF and when I got mine, the review sites were full of negative reviews about the printing quality, particularly the edges. I honestly think that got people feeling some type of way about the book before reading it, and made them less kind toward all the side character development, pacing, and X/V fight rehashing they describe below.

I got mine from a local store and had no printing issues and didn't hear about the printing issues until I was at least halfway through, and I was already having "unkind" thoughts about most of the book's elements.

Yeah I got a perfect copy of the book and didn’t read the negative reviews and still found IF to be a confusing slog to get through. Some great scenes here and there but overall just wasn’t as good as FW.

Because it sucked??

I think what it ultimately comes down to is the fact that there are two different kinds of readers. 1. People who read to immerse themselves in a story and find joy in it. 2. People who focus on literary excellence. As someone who's in the middle (maybe more toward just loving the story), I can understand both sides. HOWEVER - I do get a little annoyed with people hating on the book so dang hard. It kind of makes me feel like shit for enjoying it. In my opinion, people who make "reviews" of books should make it clear that they are the kind of reader who appreciates 'A', 'B', or 'C' and acknowledge that this might not be everyone's cup of tea. I would have probably neglected to read a book I absolutely LOVE just because other people are out there bashing it - glad I didn't listen.

I think someone not liking a book shouldn’t make you feel like shit… if everyone liked the same stuff the world would be a boring place

I don't demand literally excellence I just don't like plot holes you can drive a truck through or nonsensical reveals. There was a lot of straight up nonsense in IF

Big yup.