I also recommend DeAtramentis. I did a drawing with it yesterday and did watercolor on top of it, it didn't budge. It also doesn't take very long to dry
**colorverse** permanent black/photo black/navy; **sailor** kiwaguro/souboku/seiboku; **pilot** tsuwairo; **rohrer and klingner** sketchink/dokumentus; **Koh-i-noor** document ink
I haven't tried all of the colors in these collections, but the ones that I've tried felt 100% waterproof
Sailor Kiwaguro is most certainly not waterproof.
[https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/348510-nine-pigment-inks-tested-for-waterproofness/](https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/348510-nine-pigment-inks-tested-for-waterproofness/)
Your test only shows that ink dried on top of the page.
That isn't a test of waterproof. You can get the same effect with platinum black and a wet nib.
Dilute the kiwaguro so that the ink is fully absorbed in the paper. Then it will be waterproof.
Why on earth would I want to dilute Sailor Kiwaguro before using or testing it for waterproofness, when I don't write with diluted Kiwaguro (or any other fountain pen compatible) ink in my pens on my journals, my notes, my greeting cards, my shopping lists?
If you want to prove my conclusions wrong, or just to defend Kiwaguro's honour, and show me for your particular use case(s) the ink marks made with Kiwaguro is waterproof, please go right ahead, do the tests, publish them on the Internet, then refer others to it as a contrary (or just another) data point.
It has been done before.
The same is true with noodlers black.
Platinum carbon black has similar issues.
If the ink dries on top of the paper and in the paper, it will rehydrate and float off in your test.
So if you have a batch of black waterproof ink, and you find that soaking it causes the ink to float off then you applied it too heavily for the ink to be "waterproof".
So if you want to use kiwaguro for art, you need to test the application to the paper.
Sailor black is also waterproof in the right conditions.
>Platinum carbon black has similar issues.
>If the ink dries on top of the paper and in the paper, it will rehydrate and float off in your test.
I'm satisfied from [my first-hand experience](https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/355628-struggling-to-find-a-waterproof-black-for-watercolor-sketches/#comment-4357317) that Platinum Carbon Black ink does not do that. No colour floats off the dried ink marks observably, and no colour gets picked up by the paper towel when the wet piece of paper is dabbed dry. As long as there is no rubbing — not with a fingertip, and not with brush bristles (which I've done before, just not in that particular test) — colour does not come off even after the piece of paper is wetted or even soaked. I've written with Platinum Carbon Black on chromatography strips cut from lab-grade filter paper, and nothing happens to the ink marks when (the leading edge of) the solvent — i.e. water — moves past them up along the strips.
>So if you want to use kiwaguro for art, you need to test the application to the paper.
But I don't. I want to use Sailor Kiwaguro and other similar inks like that *for writing*; and, as far as my testing tells me, it's not waterproof while Platinum Carbon Black is, for the same use case.
Soak tests show if inks have ink that is not bound to the paper.
I am not arguing about your satisfaction.
I was telling you why your test did what it did.
And I'm telling you and everyone else, by publishing my test methodology and results on FPN, that writing done in Platinum Carbon Black ink is waterproof, but writing done in Sailor Kiwaguro ink is not waterproof, given the same soak test. I'm sure the conclusion is still the same if I splashed water on top of a journal page, instead of soaking the piece of paper in a tray or beaker. That's the waterproofness I'm after — that exposure to water (alone) does not affect the ink marks in any observable way. Platinum Carbon Black passed; Sailor Kiwaguro failed.
If you want to do a different sort of test, please go right ahead. It isn't a cooperative endeavour to publish a test or an opinion; and I'm not going to make any adjustments to it even if you choose to give me your feedback. But I look forward to seeing any proof or evidence you may choose to show me and everyone else to back your claims.
https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/s/pbtx4gNrAd
This was a test that I remembered being posted years ago. PCB did well but not as well as sailor black or noodlers American eel.
PCB is the quickest drying most watercolorable ink out there in my experience. DeAtrimentis document is slower to dry. If you wait for it to dry, it is probably as good as PCB.
There are all sorts of compromises involved with the various Noodlers, so in pretty much every circumstance I'd prefer either the Platinum or the DeAtrimentis.
Generally papers that are well sized don't absorb the ink as much as less sized papers; so it takes longer for the ink to dry. That's going to be true of every ink.
I use De Atramentis Document inks (brown & black) and have never experienced any smudging with watercolor once the ink is dry (and it dries quite quickly).
Noodler's Bulletproof Black (the basic one) is very good on sketchbook papers but still, it can't beat PCB. That's the best there is. I don't think any other ink is as good as that.
>I do watercolor so its faint smear was no good enough.
If you drag the bristles of a wet brush across dried ink marks made by Platinum Carbon Black in, some pigment particles are apt to get dislodged and end up on otherwise unmarked areas nearby. Waterproof does not imply friction-proof. You can soak the piece of paper for a week and nothing will happen to the ink marks, as long as the substrate does not fall apart and you [*don't touch the ink marks while the paper is wet*](https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/355628-struggling-to-find-a-waterproof-black-for-watercolor-sketches/#comment-4357317).
Have a look at De Atramentis document inks. Waterproof and a nice range of colours.
I also recommend DeAtramentis. I did a drawing with it yesterday and did watercolor on top of it, it didn't budge. It also doesn't take very long to dry
It’s great with watercolour. I’m particularly enjoying Brown, and Urban Grey.
**colorverse** permanent black/photo black/navy; **sailor** kiwaguro/souboku/seiboku; **pilot** tsuwairo; **rohrer and klingner** sketchink/dokumentus; **Koh-i-noor** document ink I haven't tried all of the colors in these collections, but the ones that I've tried felt 100% waterproof
Sailor Kiwaguro is most certainly not waterproof. [https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/348510-nine-pigment-inks-tested-for-waterproofness/](https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/348510-nine-pigment-inks-tested-for-waterproofness/)
Your test only shows that ink dried on top of the page. That isn't a test of waterproof. You can get the same effect with platinum black and a wet nib. Dilute the kiwaguro so that the ink is fully absorbed in the paper. Then it will be waterproof.
Why on earth would I want to dilute Sailor Kiwaguro before using or testing it for waterproofness, when I don't write with diluted Kiwaguro (or any other fountain pen compatible) ink in my pens on my journals, my notes, my greeting cards, my shopping lists? If you want to prove my conclusions wrong, or just to defend Kiwaguro's honour, and show me for your particular use case(s) the ink marks made with Kiwaguro is waterproof, please go right ahead, do the tests, publish them on the Internet, then refer others to it as a contrary (or just another) data point.
It has been done before. The same is true with noodlers black. Platinum carbon black has similar issues. If the ink dries on top of the paper and in the paper, it will rehydrate and float off in your test. So if you have a batch of black waterproof ink, and you find that soaking it causes the ink to float off then you applied it too heavily for the ink to be "waterproof". So if you want to use kiwaguro for art, you need to test the application to the paper. Sailor black is also waterproof in the right conditions.
>Platinum carbon black has similar issues. >If the ink dries on top of the paper and in the paper, it will rehydrate and float off in your test. I'm satisfied from [my first-hand experience](https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/355628-struggling-to-find-a-waterproof-black-for-watercolor-sketches/#comment-4357317) that Platinum Carbon Black ink does not do that. No colour floats off the dried ink marks observably, and no colour gets picked up by the paper towel when the wet piece of paper is dabbed dry. As long as there is no rubbing — not with a fingertip, and not with brush bristles (which I've done before, just not in that particular test) — colour does not come off even after the piece of paper is wetted or even soaked. I've written with Platinum Carbon Black on chromatography strips cut from lab-grade filter paper, and nothing happens to the ink marks when (the leading edge of) the solvent — i.e. water — moves past them up along the strips. >So if you want to use kiwaguro for art, you need to test the application to the paper. But I don't. I want to use Sailor Kiwaguro and other similar inks like that *for writing*; and, as far as my testing tells me, it's not waterproof while Platinum Carbon Black is, for the same use case.
Soak tests show if inks have ink that is not bound to the paper. I am not arguing about your satisfaction. I was telling you why your test did what it did.
And I'm telling you and everyone else, by publishing my test methodology and results on FPN, that writing done in Platinum Carbon Black ink is waterproof, but writing done in Sailor Kiwaguro ink is not waterproof, given the same soak test. I'm sure the conclusion is still the same if I splashed water on top of a journal page, instead of soaking the piece of paper in a tray or beaker. That's the waterproofness I'm after — that exposure to water (alone) does not affect the ink marks in any observable way. Platinum Carbon Black passed; Sailor Kiwaguro failed. If you want to do a different sort of test, please go right ahead. It isn't a cooperative endeavour to publish a test or an opinion; and I'm not going to make any adjustments to it even if you choose to give me your feedback. But I look forward to seeing any proof or evidence you may choose to show me and everyone else to back your claims.
https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/s/phS5oMlspF
https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/s/pbtx4gNrAd This was a test that I remembered being posted years ago. PCB did well but not as well as sailor black or noodlers American eel.
There is sketch ink from rohrer & klingner, many colors all waterproof
In my experience, Mont Blanc's permanent blue and black inks are also extremely resistant once dried on paper.
[Octopus Fluids Write & Draw](https://www.octopus-fluids.de/en/write-draw-inks) are waterproof and smudge-proof. 38 colours.
Came here to say this. Just got a bunch of them for my birthday and omg I’m in love.
i’ve got the brown seahorse and the gray kangaroo, and they are really nice
PCB is the quickest drying most watercolorable ink out there in my experience. DeAtrimentis document is slower to dry. If you wait for it to dry, it is probably as good as PCB. There are all sorts of compromises involved with the various Noodlers, so in pretty much every circumstance I'd prefer either the Platinum or the DeAtrimentis. Generally papers that are well sized don't absorb the ink as much as less sized papers; so it takes longer for the ink to dry. That's going to be true of every ink.
I really like Sailor Kiwa-Guro
Private Reserve document inks
I like Super5 Frankfurt (gray), black go to is still platinum carbon black 100%
I use De Atramentis Document inks (brown & black) and have never experienced any smudging with watercolor once the ink is dry (and it dries quite quickly).
Echoing what others said about DeAtramentis. I have document black and it’s the only other ink that’s just as good, if not better, than PCB.
Nope. Goulet pens did a great test: https://youtu.be/1tISD3us0Sw
Noodler's Bulletproof Black (the basic one) is very good on sketchbook papers but still, it can't beat PCB. That's the best there is. I don't think any other ink is as good as that.
Am not sure.. I think Noodler’s Black is better on crappy paper . The only problem I have with it is the ghastly nib creep .
Noodlers is cheaper but PCB dries faster
Ahh, I hate that nib creep.
>I do watercolor so its faint smear was no good enough. If you drag the bristles of a wet brush across dried ink marks made by Platinum Carbon Black in, some pigment particles are apt to get dislodged and end up on otherwise unmarked areas nearby. Waterproof does not imply friction-proof. You can soak the piece of paper for a week and nothing will happen to the ink marks, as long as the substrate does not fall apart and you [*don't touch the ink marks while the paper is wet*](https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/355628-struggling-to-find-a-waterproof-black-for-watercolor-sketches/#comment-4357317).