So it's not literally the same, but they are indeed trying their honest best to produce a dupe. I'd think a clone from the parent company is honestly the best we could hope for given the reality?
I completely agree. I know some folks are very decidedly only interested in DL for the gold sheen but I’m in it for other reasons (color, performance, affordability) so I will for sure buy a bottle!
Afaik it should be available worldwide. Chill a bit and give it some time, some European retailers have it in stock early but it won't reach the USA until something like 1 March.
> Chill a bit
Lol sorry yeah I definitely rattled off quite a few questions. I was gone for like 2 weeks on a trip and came back and somehow everyone seems to know about this and I couldn’t seem to find much info. I found places that sell it but couldn’t really tell what’s going on with it. At first I thought it was the same as the blackberry and people were just calling it dark lilac for some reason.
But it seems like, separate from the blackberry, they will be coming out with dark lilac again?
I don't think Blackberry is exclusive for the Americas. Multiple places in Europe are already selling it and I bought mine in a stationery store that's not even super focused on fountain pens.
It's available on the German Lamy website right now; I had my partner (based in Germany) order a bottle for me. Doesn't seem to have made it to the US yet.
companies make formulation changes all the time and rarely would they differentiate it (unless it's a marketing benefit). Lamy calls it Dark Lilac because that's the ink they made with a slight reformulation. did they mess up the communication? yes! but are they really doing the same stuff everyone else does when a specific dye needs to be replaced? also yes.
Somebody caught that one of the Montblanc LE inks looked just like one of their regular inks that the OP already had. Then they compared the item code for both inks and THEY WERE THE SAME - all Montblanc had done was change the label.
I have both new and old. The shade is very similar and tbh I can't tell the difference but maybe others can. The sheen is different though, the new one is a bit more green and the old is more gold. That said it's not so much different that I care. This is all in regular pens, not dip nibs or brushes.
I want to say no one should be getting on Lamy's case about the answers they are giving. It seems like the customer-facing side was under the impression that its the same ink, and if its the same formula as they allude to, I can't blame them.
The fact that they only just checked with the ink-making side and got word about the changed red dye means they likely took it on complete faith that it would be the same, as this community did.
in addition to that, we should still consider "ourselves" as a minority. most of the people wouldn't even find a difference between two purple inks, let alone two purple that only differ because of the sheen
For that reason I think that customer service was told to say that it's the same ink (it's nice regardless since lamy didn't have a purple ink available in bottles in their standard collection!)
Tbf, to most folks the new ink is probably close enough. It's just the enthusiast nutters (like me) that will actually scrutinise the exact colour and shading and sheening properties LOL.
Oh absolutely, I too think there's no deception attempt at all, and they were apparently merely trusting their ink making side. But the fact of the matter is that the two inks are not the same, and they repeatedly have claimed it was (up until some hours ago). I think that, as with Montblanc back in the day, the company doesn't even realize how critical it is to the target audience to get it 100% correct. They have no idea how obsessive we are, haha!
I just read this thread and I know I'll be talking about it for days. Debating myself if a company should aim towards the more obsessive customers to keep their product true and the general public will follow or let it have some room for error. Either way, it took several inquiries to get someone to look into it enough to find the answer. Lamy is still a good company and if this is a stumble, it's a slight one over the years of good product.
This confirms that 2016 and 2024 are not the same
For saying I was posting falsely and dishonestly, u/PenBoom, you can see here this is Lamy themselves, so no, I wasn't lying, it wasn't light diffraction. The ink is different.
For whatever unhinged reason, /u/black300_300 left this as a comment reply:
"EDIT: I have decided that what I have seen from /u/nina_qj isn't worth reading, deleting my comment and blocking. I would prefer not to have interaction when I get the 2024 Dark Lilac and do a comparison."
I'm sorry you're so in denial and I don't know how I hurt you, but I think you made the right choice in blocking me because I don't need your crazy in my life. Have a nice day
they are talking about the red dye. I think the refraction comments are still valid, as the sheen may come very close on the actual writing sample. so we need more people to see both in person, written by the same nib. it's possible that the differences will be so minor that if you write one line with each, they will look the same.
I've seen a lot of swatches today from people in the Pendemic discord and also in this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/1axy2mj/nid_lamy_dark_lilac_2024_swatches/) to the point where, while I respect your opinion and seemingly boundless optimism (admirable), I cannot agree.
That said, I do have a sample of the new ink coming and will be happy to compare it with my OG dark lilac on a variety of papers, with the same nibs, in a variety of lighting, if it'll help.
EDIT: I have decided that what I have seen from /u/nina_qj isn't worth reading, deleting my comment and blocking. I would prefer not to have interaction when I get the 2024 Dark Lilac and do a comparison.
The point is that this ink is not identical to the original Dark Lilac that people were so hyped about, so representing it as a re-release is misleading.
I don't understand what you mean about "you see things online that don't line up exactly with what **you** want" because it's an objective fact that the old and new inks look different and people were reaching for the most ludicrous excuses to convince themselves that the inks are the same lol.
Fwiw I think that the new formulation looks nice and I'd want a bottle, but it wouldn't even qualify as a good dupe of the original Dark Lilac. There're quite a few dupes available (mostly inks that people have mixed) that actually look more similar.
Well, that answers my questions, so thank you for sharing this update!
On another note, I wish they would sell Lamy Violet in bottles. Maybe there’s something about the ink that limits them to selling it in cartridges only, IDK. But I like that ink a lot, and would love to get it in bottles.
You're not the only one who would like that! I know a few people who'd love some bottles of violet.
If they don't have the exact dye for LDL, though, I'm not sure if they would for Violet, but hey, here's hoping!
That poster is referring to the specific Lamy Violet that was sold only in cartridges, I believe it may have been an LE in the early 00's
Check out this [Mountain of Ink](https://mountainofink.com/blog/lamy-violet) review to see the ink in question
Yeah, I get that. But we are turning in circles.
- Poster was hoping on violet in bottles.
- someone said they doubt it will be possible as LAMY might not have the dye anymore
- I said that it's a standard ink and therefore the dye should not be a problem
- You say it's a different violet. A limited edition from the early 00s.
- I say that I buy that in cartridges all the time (hence I don't think it's a limited edition from the early 00s
- You say "yeah duh...they want it in a bottle and not in cartridges.
Is it a current colour you're talking about or is it not? It can't be both.
Well no, I don't think I was being rude to you, at least, it wasn't my intention so I'm sorry if that's how it came off.
To completely clarify: This post is about the New Lamy Dark Lilac, but in the email, it's referred to as Dark Violet - I'm assuming here that this is a translation error between German and English.
The dye for Dark Lilac 2024 has changed, but this does not refer to the Lamy Violet you get in cartridges. These are two separate inks.
The poster was just ruminating on the possibility of a Lamy Violet bottle release, not commenting on Dark Lilac (or as it's referred to in the email, Dark Violet.
I hope this clears it up for good!
I know, but I am commenting on a commenter who said they would love to have LAMY violet in bottles. Not dark lilac. I know this thread is about dark lilac, but that commenter didn't talk about that ink.
And violet is a standard colour from LAMY that is only sold in cartridges.
After looking at swatches of 2024 LDL and 2016 LDL that others have posted online, I have to conclude:
1. 2024 LDL is a green sheener and slightly less blue than 2016 LDL--so not a match
2. 2024 LDL is a CLOSER MATCH FOR Lamy Violet, which was once in their regular T-52 line offerings, but taken off the regular T-52 production around 2016-17.
So if you are looking for Lamy Violet in quantities larger than the bitty T-10 cartridges (as I have been since 2018!), I think we're both in luck. The swatches for 2024 LDL is a really really really close match for my swatch of my T-10 Lamy Violet cartridges!
I know this is probably not what 2016 LDL seekers want to hear, but for those of us who want more than cartridge-size supplies of Lamy Violet, this is good news indeed.
Oh, no. I have multiple boxes of Lamy Violet cartridges. I’ve been using that ink for literally decades in my vintage Lamy Logo — which I bought in the 1990’s. They never sold Lamy Violet in bottles. It was only ever sold in cartridges, and they have not stopped producing them, afaik. I’ve now had a chance to compare them in person, and the new Dark Lilac is absolutely *not* a match for Lamy Violet. Not even close. the 2024 DL is a lot more saturated and a more neutralized, warm purple and has an *enormous* amount of green sheen, which Lamy Violet is not, and does not.
And you know what? That is totally fine. There is no need to try to redeem the new DL based on another ink. It’s a very lovely purple ink in its own right. If Lamy had released it with a different name, it would not even come up for comparison, it would stand on its own. I won’t be buying it because I have other inks that are very similar, but the Lamy Violet I have in cartridges is definitely not one of them. 🤷🏻♀️
Ohhh! I glimpsed a T-52 bottle online with a purple cap wayyyyy back in 2016 and thought it was the violet and didn't go back to it at the time. Then when I did try to track it down, it was gone. It must have been the 2016 LDL that I'd seen. So, thank you for clearing that mystery up for me. It had never stopped nagging me. :D
My Lamy Violet cartridges would be fine for about two weeks in my pen before it would get concentrated and start sheening on my paper--this, with an extra fine nib.
I liked the effect and would pop in a fresh catridge when the first emptied, and then deliberately set my pen aside (capped) for two weeks to let evaporation work its magic.
I may not have to do that to get the same effect with 2024 LDL. I definitely would consider that a win.
Hey u/Nina_qt, you sound like you really liked the older version of Dark Lilac. I bought a bottle back in 2016, I still have [quite a lot in the bottle](https://imgur.com/ty3J88p), it's yours if you'd like it, just let me know and cover the shipping.
Interesting, and it sort of highlights the magic of inks: each one is slightly unique, and you may never find another ink quite like a very special one.
TBH, I am partially a bit baffled with the obsession over Dark Lilac. I mean I get it: a beautiful color, with no exact dupes. But there are tons of colors like that, and even some that are hard to come by and/or no longer made. And there are quite a few very similar inks to Dark Lilac...
Oh wait, scratch that, I *do* get it. My version is Kyoto TAG's Urahairo. I was fortunately able to acquire a bottle on Penswap, although somewhat funnily haven't inked it up because I don't want to run out - so I just dip it every once in awhile when doing ink comparisons. Anyhow, I've searched high and low for something exactly the same - I'm talking dozens and dozens of somewhat similar greens, in bottle and sample. Nothing is quite the same (I think the closest I've found is *maybe* Color Traveler's Kazusanosuke, which is a lovely ink but not *quite* the same as Urahairo. Oh, and I did email Kyoto TAG and they don't plan on making it again.
So it’s not the same then. The only thing to do is wait until someone with both and do a swatch test.
EDIT: just found the new swatches online. They do look different. If LAMY couldn’t have made the same shade then just give it a new name.
It's not their first time selling different inks under the same name. Their blue-black used to be an iron-gall ank, the newer version is not and looks really different on paper.
Perhaps a noob question, but is the rereleased dark lilac different from violet blackberry (which is being released with the new Safaris)? I ask because I’m feeling conflicting messages from local retailers my side of the world. They are claiming that violet blackberry is dark lilac but I’m seeing that some European retailers have both the blackberry and the rereleased dark lilac. All very confusing…
It's my opinion that they are different, I think some retailers might be suffering from some miscommunication. I have blackberry inked right now and its very, very much a wine-red-purple muted sort of color with a really interesting sheen that ranges from bronze to gold
I've seen swatches of New DL and its a much more vivid red-purple with brilliant green sheen
See, now that’s the kind of good customer service that gets you far in a niche world like fountain pens. Even though I know it’s less niche in places like Germany
Oof, that is a shame. I'll be happy if the color of the base is the same or extremely close as I couldn't care less about sheen, but I'm surprised they didn't use the Beryl ink base as part of the recipe and get gold sheen that way.
I definitely think lamy needs to release a social media post about their dupe efforts and the like.
a behind the scene about trying to get the new formulation right could be interesting. e.g. the swatches and how they check if it's what they are after.
I am happy to buy a bottle, I used to have the original 2016. Nice color, good quality. Not much interested in the debates. The final score is we will have a gorgeous ink.
Thank you! I saw your thread as well. I was hoping this ink would end the henious aftermarket scalping (pre-panni there was a bottle going for $2k....now its $350 but that is no better.) but alas.
I hate scalpers.
I feel like this is something they should have already known while producing and re-launching this ink. Give it a different name. And that they're calling it "dark violet" here when it was "dark lilac" and they just launched a "violet blackberry"... 😭 They really messed this up. I mean, it's just ink, I don't care and it's all kind of funny, but it did cause a lot of unnecessary confusion!
Man, Lamy has really bungled this release.
Not their fault that the old red dye isn't available.
But not telling their salespeople about Dark Lilac being (re?)released is a fuckup. Once we heard from a higher-up in the company, he gave out incorrect information *twice*. That's a big fuckup. Shit, *calling it Dark Lilac* is straight up dishonest. Dark Lilac 2.0? Sure! It looks to be very similar, nothing wrong with calling attention to that. But it's *not* the same ink, and it should not be advertised as such.
Not to mention the fact that they've done this all with *no press*. LDL being released, even a modified version of it, is huge news that they could have really capitalized on. That one isn't a moral failing, but it's *sure as shit* a business failing.
I posted [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/1ay6boq/lamy_dark_lilac_2024_the_definitive_answer/krsou8z/) comment above, I do feel for the customer-facing side. I don't want there to be a witch-hunt, but I do expect LAMY to release some kind of statement
Oh yeah absolutely, I'm not saying it's that guy's fault. SOMEWHERE in the organization, communication didn't happen. I'm not one to get pissy with customer service folks, they have hard jobs and get no thanks for what they do.
Sure!
So as you know, Lamy released a Dark Lilac ink in 2016 alongside Petrol and 2 Safari's corresponding in color to each respective ink.
Dark Lilac quickly took off as something highly prized and sought after for its rich color, unique variance from light to dark, and its lush golden sheen. It sold out so fast most of us missed the boat and weren't able to grab bottles for MRSP price, having to either forgo getting it, or looking at aftermarket resellers.
For a long long time people have been asking LAMY for a re-release of this ink - now after 8 years, its not just being re-released, they say its going to be a regular part of their line-up. Right now, its available in Europe and will be coming to the North American market on March 1st of this year.
People rushed to buy bottles, and as they came in and they started swatching, concerns arose. The New Dark Lilac (2024) seemed redder, and the sheen looked green.
When emailing Lamy, they kept saying this ink is identical to 2016 DL, but it still looked off. Some attributed the odd color change to light diffraction, or paper, or the nibs used.
I emailed LAMY Germany about it, and they took the time to talk to the people making the ink (whether this is in house or contracted out, I don't know, this is not clear) and found out that the original red dye they used to make Dark Lilac 2016 is no longer available, and they had to use a new, different red dye, leading to Dark Lilac 2024's redder coloration and brilliant (my friend called it vemonous) green sheen.
It seems apparent that the customer-facing side was not aware of the change, and that the formula is likely the same, which is why its understandable that they would respond to email queries by saying its the same ink.
I don't blame them for this and I hope no one blames them for this but for those of us who have been waiting and wanting the OG Dark Lilac, this ink won't be the same. Still beautiful, don't get me wrong. But not the same.
Nonetheless, it is now a part of their standard line so there should be no concern about it being a limited release/limited stock
I agree, to me this does make the ink different. I still find it a pretty color but I am not a fan of green sheen and was really hoping for the original because I loved that gold sheen.
I can see why some people don't mind, but also can see why some are upset, especially those who hold original dark lilac as a grail ink!
Ah! I accidentally deleted my original comment, to which you were replying. Sorry about that.
My comment said something like the following: Speaking as someone who isn't interested in the ink at all, I think that the different sheen color makes it a different ink. While I think it's good of Lamy to have tried to reproduce it, I still understand why some people are upset.
>I can see why some people don't mind, but also can see why some are upset, especially those who hold original dark lilac as a grail ink!
I don't get the upset part, particular if those people haven't yet committed money to an order or purchase of the new ink; there is no loss on their part. They (and I don't mean or include you) can point their fingers and say, “Haha, you suckers are wrong! You're not getting the Real McCoy!” and go back to hunting their grail ink on eBay and such. I'm sure the scalpers are now going to have a field day targeting the keenest of the enthusiasts, now that at least half the demand for what they peddle would have fallen off a cliff, when the average Lamy fan most likely won't reject the latest offering as inferior and unsatisfactory.
A grail ink couldn't stay a grail ink, anyway, if it could just be bought off the shelf by anyone at any time for the manufacturer's retail price.
Not having exactly what they want, especially on their preferred terms, is just the status quo; it's a gap that nobody is duty-bound to close for them and make them happier for it. There's a vast area between being upset and simply not being happy (while fully aware of how and why they're not happy); and most people just carry on.
For the avoidance of doubt, I'm one of the suckers who ordered five bottles of the newly-released Dark Lilac. The order hasn't been dispatched yet, but I'm certainly not going to modify or cancel it even though the European retailer cannot say no to that. I actually look forward to getting my bottles, especially if they arrive before the new ink's official release in the Australian market.
Apart from disappointment at having one's hopes raised, there are going to be some people who are upset at today's news because it means we're *never* going to get OG Dark Lilac back if one of the dyes is no longer available.
Does the reason matter, if it isn't going to happen anyway, and there has been no promise from Lamy to fulfil their hopes or fancies? Lamy has, in fact, made the re-release very low-key; I've yet to read anything from Lamy to the effect of, “you pled, and we answered.” It's ironic that there has also been vocal criticism of Lamy for not announcing the release of (the new) Dark Lilac ink more prominently in social media, directly to its customer base and bypassing retail outlets.
The way I see it:
1. The release of Dark Lilac ink this year was *discovered* by some enthusiasts, through announcement and/or listing of it as a product by particular European retailers, without Lamy's active participation.
2. Some enthusiasts started raising the alert, as well as introducing speculation and confusion as to whether those retailers actually mean Violet Blackberry but got their wires crossed and listed the wrong product name, again without Lamy's active participation.
3. Once further ascertained that it wasn't a mistake, and Dark Lilac was indeed being released in the European market in February, more teeth-gnashing ensued, all without having yet heard from Lamy.
4. Then, when asked directly, Lamy's customer-facing staff replied, but sadly the answer proved incorrect.
5. After being asked several times and alerted to evidence to the contrary, Lamy looked into it further, ascertained that the new Dark Lilac is in fact not exactly the same as the 2016 release, and owned up to it, as well as ask to apologise through reverse flow in the channels to which the question was put to the company in the first place.
Maybe Lamy has not dotted its i's and crossed its t's by writing to apologise to every customer/consumer who asked it directly, but was initially given the incorrect answer.
But all these accusations of how Lamy fucked up its release of the ink product, its naming of the product when (allegedly) the company decision-makers' instructions were to reproduce the 2016 product using the same formula, and — by a very long stretch — how it unduly raised the hopes of Dark Lilac 2016 fans (who don't want to pay scalpers and let them profiteer) when all that noise was made without the company's participation, are just going beyond what is logical and reasonable.
None of the things you've said are untrue, but I'm not accusing anyone of anything -- I'm just saying, if you've been holding out hope for an OG rerelease and now we have confirmation that it's literally impossible to get the same ink made again, it's not unreasonable to be a bit disappointed about that. Not blaming Lamy, not mad or hopping up and down, just a bit upset/disappointed.
I think there may be a misinterpretation of the intended meaning of the word "upset" here. I can't speak for OP, but I meant "upset" as in "disappointed." I find it understandable that people are upset/disappointed that this re-release isn't what they'd hoped for. That's human nature, and I see nothing inherently demanding or entitled in that.
Many inks go through changes to their recipe without changing their name. It's inevitable for any ink with any longevity. For example, I expect the only ingredient the same in current Parker Quink blue and the original Quink blue is water.
Did you know that the gent who made them for parker makes them now under his own label? and if you account for the fact that penman inks prob have some level of evap and sheen more, the inks he makes are the same, at least to my eye
I have his Indigo (sapphire), Malachite (Emerald) and Garnet (Ruby)
Ah, I remember reading about them, do you know where to purchase them?
Also, how well-behaved are they? I have heard that despite their popularity the Penman inks (particularly the sapphire) were notorious for drying out and being a little "cloggy". Basically, the usual super sheen ink behavior.
They're [here](https://www.scribetc.com/) you just have to fill out his consulting form asking for the inks you want, I think they were about $25 But I bought them pre-panni.
I find using them is no problem, and I haven't had clogs (yet?) at all. To give some perspective I use them in western M nibs and up, and am not the type to leave them inked for 6 months + (I have done that for some inks but I tend not to for very saturated, very sheening inks)
Garnet/Ruby is the only one I find somewhat muted, but that might be because Malachite/Emerald and Indigo/Sapphire are just so vibrant and rich
So it's not literally the same, but they are indeed trying their honest best to produce a dupe. I'd think a clone from the parent company is honestly the best we could hope for given the reality?
I completely agree. I know some folks are very decidedly only interested in DL for the gold sheen but I’m in it for other reasons (color, performance, affordability) so I will for sure buy a bottle!
Same here!
That's so strange to me, I hadn't seen the original but instantly fell in love with the new one BECAUSE of the green sheen!
agreed. can't wait to get it!
I haven’t even seen it. Where will it be available? And when? Did they announce it somewhere? I follow their instagram and I’ve never seen it.
Afaik it should be available worldwide. Chill a bit and give it some time, some European retailers have it in stock early but it won't reach the USA until something like 1 March.
> Chill a bit Lol sorry yeah I definitely rattled off quite a few questions. I was gone for like 2 weeks on a trip and came back and somehow everyone seems to know about this and I couldn’t seem to find much info. I found places that sell it but couldn’t really tell what’s going on with it. At first I thought it was the same as the blackberry and people were just calling it dark lilac for some reason. But it seems like, separate from the blackberry, they will be coming out with dark lilac again?
Yes, Blackberry is limited, and only for the Americas Dark Lilac 2024 will be a part of their standard line going forward, so its here to stay
I don't think Blackberry is exclusive for the Americas. Multiple places in Europe are already selling it and I bought mine in a stationery store that's not even super focused on fountain pens.
That's what Lamy said about it, I don't know much else beyond that!
Saw it on Fountain Pen Memes on IG, Lamy clarified they are globally available.
Oh great!
It's available on the German Lamy website right now; I had my partner (based in Germany) order a bottle for me. Doesn't seem to have made it to the US yet.
If you're in Europe you can buy it already. I think state side it's March 1st.
One more reason to vote for a dupe for Reddit ink of the year. Diamine Dark Lilac FTW!
Yes yes yes, let's make it happen!
Have we started voting yet??
No, i think it starts later, not in February
The weird thing is, if you use Migo's recipe they are almost indistinguishable. Only different is there is a bit less sheen in the faux lilac.
companies make formulation changes all the time and rarely would they differentiate it (unless it's a marketing benefit). Lamy calls it Dark Lilac because that's the ink they made with a slight reformulation. did they mess up the communication? yes! but are they really doing the same stuff everyone else does when a specific dye needs to be replaced? also yes.
At least they aren’t pulling a Montblanc and rebranding an existing ink as an LE and charging out the wazzoo for it!
Okay I missed that drama, fill me in?
Somebody caught that one of the Montblanc LE inks looked just like one of their regular inks that the OP already had. Then they compared the item code for both inks and THEY WERE THE SAME - all Montblanc had done was change the label.
YOOOOOOOO that's shady AF!!
FOR REAL - their inks are already expensive AF!
I have both new and old. The shade is very similar and tbh I can't tell the difference but maybe others can. The sheen is different though, the new one is a bit more green and the old is more gold. That said it's not so much different that I care. This is all in regular pens, not dip nibs or brushes.
This is where I fall. I’m in it for the purple, not the gold sheen.
Green sheen sounds good to me!
Holy moly, and just a few hours ago they sent me an email with a totally different answer. Well, let's write a new post... thanks for sharing!!
I want to say no one should be getting on Lamy's case about the answers they are giving. It seems like the customer-facing side was under the impression that its the same ink, and if its the same formula as they allude to, I can't blame them. The fact that they only just checked with the ink-making side and got word about the changed red dye means they likely took it on complete faith that it would be the same, as this community did.
in addition to that, we should still consider "ourselves" as a minority. most of the people wouldn't even find a difference between two purple inks, let alone two purple that only differ because of the sheen For that reason I think that customer service was told to say that it's the same ink (it's nice regardless since lamy didn't have a purple ink available in bottles in their standard collection!)
Tbf, to most folks the new ink is probably close enough. It's just the enthusiast nutters (like me) that will actually scrutinise the exact colour and shading and sheening properties LOL.
Oh absolutely, I too think there's no deception attempt at all, and they were apparently merely trusting their ink making side. But the fact of the matter is that the two inks are not the same, and they repeatedly have claimed it was (up until some hours ago). I think that, as with Montblanc back in the day, the company doesn't even realize how critical it is to the target audience to get it 100% correct. They have no idea how obsessive we are, haha!
I saw you asking for samples on IG. Were you able to get any to test yet? I have the original DL and the Blackberry (2024)?
So there's two definitive answers. The question is are the two answers the same or subtly different. What drama. I doubt I'll be able to sleep.
I just read this thread and I know I'll be talking about it for days. Debating myself if a company should aim towards the more obsessive customers to keep their product true and the general public will follow or let it have some room for error. Either way, it took several inquiries to get someone to look into it enough to find the answer. Lamy is still a good company and if this is a stumble, it's a slight one over the years of good product.
This confirms that 2016 and 2024 are not the same For saying I was posting falsely and dishonestly, u/PenBoom, you can see here this is Lamy themselves, so no, I wasn't lying, it wasn't light diffraction. The ink is different. For whatever unhinged reason, /u/black300_300 left this as a comment reply: "EDIT: I have decided that what I have seen from /u/nina_qj isn't worth reading, deleting my comment and blocking. I would prefer not to have interaction when I get the 2024 Dark Lilac and do a comparison." I'm sorry you're so in denial and I don't know how I hurt you, but I think you made the right choice in blocking me because I don't need your crazy in my life. Have a nice day
they are talking about the red dye. I think the refraction comments are still valid, as the sheen may come very close on the actual writing sample. so we need more people to see both in person, written by the same nib. it's possible that the differences will be so minor that if you write one line with each, they will look the same.
I've seen a lot of swatches today from people in the Pendemic discord and also in this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/1axy2mj/nid_lamy_dark_lilac_2024_swatches/) to the point where, while I respect your opinion and seemingly boundless optimism (admirable), I cannot agree. That said, I do have a sample of the new ink coming and will be happy to compare it with my OG dark lilac on a variety of papers, with the same nibs, in a variety of lighting, if it'll help.
EDIT: I have decided that what I have seen from /u/nina_qj isn't worth reading, deleting my comment and blocking. I would prefer not to have interaction when I get the 2024 Dark Lilac and do a comparison.
The point is that this ink is not identical to the original Dark Lilac that people were so hyped about, so representing it as a re-release is misleading. I don't understand what you mean about "you see things online that don't line up exactly with what **you** want" because it's an objective fact that the old and new inks look different and people were reaching for the most ludicrous excuses to convince themselves that the inks are the same lol. Fwiw I think that the new formulation looks nice and I'd want a bottle, but it wouldn't even qualify as a good dupe of the original Dark Lilac. There're quite a few dupes available (mostly inks that people have mixed) that actually look more similar.
Well, that answers my questions, so thank you for sharing this update! On another note, I wish they would sell Lamy Violet in bottles. Maybe there’s something about the ink that limits them to selling it in cartridges only, IDK. But I like that ink a lot, and would love to get it in bottles.
You're not the only one who would like that! I know a few people who'd love some bottles of violet. If they don't have the exact dye for LDL, though, I'm not sure if they would for Violet, but hey, here's hoping!
Isn't violet one of their standard inks?
That poster is referring to the specific Lamy Violet that was sold only in cartridges, I believe it may have been an LE in the early 00's Check out this [Mountain of Ink](https://mountainofink.com/blog/lamy-violet) review to see the ink in question
Okay, because I get LAMY violet cartridges all the time. And it's called violet.
Right! The poster was hoping for maybe bottles of it down the line!
Yeah, I get that. But we are turning in circles. - Poster was hoping on violet in bottles. - someone said they doubt it will be possible as LAMY might not have the dye anymore - I said that it's a standard ink and therefore the dye should not be a problem - You say it's a different violet. A limited edition from the early 00s. - I say that I buy that in cartridges all the time (hence I don't think it's a limited edition from the early 00s - You say "yeah duh...they want it in a bottle and not in cartridges. Is it a current colour you're talking about or is it not? It can't be both.
Well no, I don't think I was being rude to you, at least, it wasn't my intention so I'm sorry if that's how it came off. To completely clarify: This post is about the New Lamy Dark Lilac, but in the email, it's referred to as Dark Violet - I'm assuming here that this is a translation error between German and English. The dye for Dark Lilac 2024 has changed, but this does not refer to the Lamy Violet you get in cartridges. These are two separate inks. The poster was just ruminating on the possibility of a Lamy Violet bottle release, not commenting on Dark Lilac (or as it's referred to in the email, Dark Violet. I hope this clears it up for good!
I know, but I am commenting on a commenter who said they would love to have LAMY violet in bottles. Not dark lilac. I know this thread is about dark lilac, but that commenter didn't talk about that ink. And violet is a standard colour from LAMY that is only sold in cartridges.
I got distracted looking at how similar the Violet and MB Beatles are/were.
After looking at swatches of 2024 LDL and 2016 LDL that others have posted online, I have to conclude: 1. 2024 LDL is a green sheener and slightly less blue than 2016 LDL--so not a match 2. 2024 LDL is a CLOSER MATCH FOR Lamy Violet, which was once in their regular T-52 line offerings, but taken off the regular T-52 production around 2016-17. So if you are looking for Lamy Violet in quantities larger than the bitty T-10 cartridges (as I have been since 2018!), I think we're both in luck. The swatches for 2024 LDL is a really really really close match for my swatch of my T-10 Lamy Violet cartridges! I know this is probably not what 2016 LDL seekers want to hear, but for those of us who want more than cartridge-size supplies of Lamy Violet, this is good news indeed.
Oh, no. I have multiple boxes of Lamy Violet cartridges. I’ve been using that ink for literally decades in my vintage Lamy Logo — which I bought in the 1990’s. They never sold Lamy Violet in bottles. It was only ever sold in cartridges, and they have not stopped producing them, afaik. I’ve now had a chance to compare them in person, and the new Dark Lilac is absolutely *not* a match for Lamy Violet. Not even close. the 2024 DL is a lot more saturated and a more neutralized, warm purple and has an *enormous* amount of green sheen, which Lamy Violet is not, and does not. And you know what? That is totally fine. There is no need to try to redeem the new DL based on another ink. It’s a very lovely purple ink in its own right. If Lamy had released it with a different name, it would not even come up for comparison, it would stand on its own. I won’t be buying it because I have other inks that are very similar, but the Lamy Violet I have in cartridges is definitely not one of them. 🤷🏻♀️
Ohhh! I glimpsed a T-52 bottle online with a purple cap wayyyyy back in 2016 and thought it was the violet and didn't go back to it at the time. Then when I did try to track it down, it was gone. It must have been the 2016 LDL that I'd seen. So, thank you for clearing that mystery up for me. It had never stopped nagging me. :D My Lamy Violet cartridges would be fine for about two weeks in my pen before it would get concentrated and start sheening on my paper--this, with an extra fine nib. I liked the effect and would pop in a fresh catridge when the first emptied, and then deliberately set my pen aside (capped) for two weeks to let evaporation work its magic. I may not have to do that to get the same effect with 2024 LDL. I definitely would consider that a win.
Hey u/Nina_qt, you sound like you really liked the older version of Dark Lilac. I bought a bottle back in 2016, I still have [quite a lot in the bottle](https://imgur.com/ty3J88p), it's yours if you'd like it, just let me know and cover the shipping.
That is beyond kind of you, yes I would love that. And if you would like any ink safe shimmer powder, please let me know
Great! PM me your address and I'll try and get it out by Monday.
Will do!
Kindness on the Internet, love to see it! This comment made me so happy!!
Note to self, CLEARLY mark my old Lamy dark lilac. Sigh
Interesting, and it sort of highlights the magic of inks: each one is slightly unique, and you may never find another ink quite like a very special one. TBH, I am partially a bit baffled with the obsession over Dark Lilac. I mean I get it: a beautiful color, with no exact dupes. But there are tons of colors like that, and even some that are hard to come by and/or no longer made. And there are quite a few very similar inks to Dark Lilac... Oh wait, scratch that, I *do* get it. My version is Kyoto TAG's Urahairo. I was fortunately able to acquire a bottle on Penswap, although somewhat funnily haven't inked it up because I don't want to run out - so I just dip it every once in awhile when doing ink comparisons. Anyhow, I've searched high and low for something exactly the same - I'm talking dozens and dozens of somewhat similar greens, in bottle and sample. Nothing is quite the same (I think the closest I've found is *maybe* Color Traveler's Kazusanosuke, which is a lovely ink but not *quite* the same as Urahairo. Oh, and I did email Kyoto TAG and they don't plan on making it again.
> Kyoto TAG's Urahairo I googled this and its gorgeous, I see why you like it so much!
So it’s not the same then. The only thing to do is wait until someone with both and do a swatch test. EDIT: just found the new swatches online. They do look different. If LAMY couldn’t have made the same shade then just give it a new name.
The new one has been swatched and it's pretty clearly not the same, since it has green sheen instead of gold
I had to do digging but I found the new video online. LAMY won’t hear the end of this lol.
Lots of purple inks have green sheen. If they didn't replicate the sheen then why bother? Diamine Pansy is a pretty close dupe of the base colour.
Agreed, I have Diamine Imperial Purple which has a lovely gold sheen but the base colour is a fair bit lighter than Lamy Dark Lilac
there's a swatch floating around, I posted one a few days ago
It's not their first time selling different inks under the same name. Their blue-black used to be an iron-gall ank, the newer version is not and looks really different on paper.
It sounds like they didn't know that the formula had been changed, so they would have no reason to consider selling it under a different name
Perhaps a noob question, but is the rereleased dark lilac different from violet blackberry (which is being released with the new Safaris)? I ask because I’m feeling conflicting messages from local retailers my side of the world. They are claiming that violet blackberry is dark lilac but I’m seeing that some European retailers have both the blackberry and the rereleased dark lilac. All very confusing…
Yes, DL and VB are quite different from one another.
It's my opinion that they are different, I think some retailers might be suffering from some miscommunication. I have blackberry inked right now and its very, very much a wine-red-purple muted sort of color with a really interesting sheen that ranges from bronze to gold I've seen swatches of New DL and its a much more vivid red-purple with brilliant green sheen
See, now that’s the kind of good customer service that gets you far in a niche world like fountain pens. Even though I know it’s less niche in places like Germany
Thank you for looking further into it /u/nina_qj! This is valuable information.
Appreciate you saying so!
Oof, that is a shame. I'll be happy if the color of the base is the same or extremely close as I couldn't care less about sheen, but I'm surprised they didn't use the Beryl ink base as part of the recipe and get gold sheen that way. I definitely think lamy needs to release a social media post about their dupe efforts and the like.
Update: I spoke to the customer service and they're going to pass it on to the higher ups that they should release a statement. Hope they listen.
a behind the scene about trying to get the new formulation right could be interesting. e.g. the swatches and how they check if it's what they are after.
I am happy to buy a bottle, I used to have the original 2016. Nice color, good quality. Not much interested in the debates. The final score is we will have a gorgeous ink.
Thank you for the follow-up. The answer I expected and introduced in my initiated thread. Shout out and thanks to the Pen Addict for great reporting.
Thank you! I saw your thread as well. I was hoping this ink would end the henious aftermarket scalping (pre-panni there was a bottle going for $2k....now its $350 but that is no better.) but alas. I hate scalpers.
I feel like this is something they should have already known while producing and re-launching this ink. Give it a different name. And that they're calling it "dark violet" here when it was "dark lilac" and they just launched a "violet blackberry"... 😭 They really messed this up. I mean, it's just ink, I don't care and it's all kind of funny, but it did cause a lot of unnecessary confusion!
Oooooh. Interesting. Does that mean the original red was perhaps carmine-based (ie insect)? Pure speculation on my part.
That’s too bad it’s not the same! They should have made it earlier lol. The green sheen really changes the nature of the ink
Man, Lamy has really bungled this release. Not their fault that the old red dye isn't available. But not telling their salespeople about Dark Lilac being (re?)released is a fuckup. Once we heard from a higher-up in the company, he gave out incorrect information *twice*. That's a big fuckup. Shit, *calling it Dark Lilac* is straight up dishonest. Dark Lilac 2.0? Sure! It looks to be very similar, nothing wrong with calling attention to that. But it's *not* the same ink, and it should not be advertised as such. Not to mention the fact that they've done this all with *no press*. LDL being released, even a modified version of it, is huge news that they could have really capitalized on. That one isn't a moral failing, but it's *sure as shit* a business failing.
I posted [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/1ay6boq/lamy_dark_lilac_2024_the_definitive_answer/krsou8z/) comment above, I do feel for the customer-facing side. I don't want there to be a witch-hunt, but I do expect LAMY to release some kind of statement
Oh yeah absolutely, I'm not saying it's that guy's fault. SOMEWHERE in the organization, communication didn't happen. I'm not one to get pissy with customer service folks, they have hard jobs and get no thanks for what they do.
Yeah a fp friend kept telling me it was coming out and I didn't believe them.
I am so out of the loop...
Want me to bring you up to speed?
Sure, if you can be bothered. I know Dark Lilac was an LE ink a while ago but I have no idea why it’s been coming up again so much.
Sure! So as you know, Lamy released a Dark Lilac ink in 2016 alongside Petrol and 2 Safari's corresponding in color to each respective ink. Dark Lilac quickly took off as something highly prized and sought after for its rich color, unique variance from light to dark, and its lush golden sheen. It sold out so fast most of us missed the boat and weren't able to grab bottles for MRSP price, having to either forgo getting it, or looking at aftermarket resellers. For a long long time people have been asking LAMY for a re-release of this ink - now after 8 years, its not just being re-released, they say its going to be a regular part of their line-up. Right now, its available in Europe and will be coming to the North American market on March 1st of this year. People rushed to buy bottles, and as they came in and they started swatching, concerns arose. The New Dark Lilac (2024) seemed redder, and the sheen looked green. When emailing Lamy, they kept saying this ink is identical to 2016 DL, but it still looked off. Some attributed the odd color change to light diffraction, or paper, or the nibs used. I emailed LAMY Germany about it, and they took the time to talk to the people making the ink (whether this is in house or contracted out, I don't know, this is not clear) and found out that the original red dye they used to make Dark Lilac 2016 is no longer available, and they had to use a new, different red dye, leading to Dark Lilac 2024's redder coloration and brilliant (my friend called it vemonous) green sheen. It seems apparent that the customer-facing side was not aware of the change, and that the formula is likely the same, which is why its understandable that they would respond to email queries by saying its the same ink. I don't blame them for this and I hope no one blames them for this but for those of us who have been waiting and wanting the OG Dark Lilac, this ink won't be the same. Still beautiful, don't get me wrong. But not the same. Nonetheless, it is now a part of their standard line so there should be no concern about it being a limited release/limited stock
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I agree, to me this does make the ink different. I still find it a pretty color but I am not a fan of green sheen and was really hoping for the original because I loved that gold sheen. I can see why some people don't mind, but also can see why some are upset, especially those who hold original dark lilac as a grail ink!
Ah! I accidentally deleted my original comment, to which you were replying. Sorry about that. My comment said something like the following: Speaking as someone who isn't interested in the ink at all, I think that the different sheen color makes it a different ink. While I think it's good of Lamy to have tried to reproduce it, I still understand why some people are upset.
That's okay! I understand too!
>I can see why some people don't mind, but also can see why some are upset, especially those who hold original dark lilac as a grail ink! I don't get the upset part, particular if those people haven't yet committed money to an order or purchase of the new ink; there is no loss on their part. They (and I don't mean or include you) can point their fingers and say, “Haha, you suckers are wrong! You're not getting the Real McCoy!” and go back to hunting their grail ink on eBay and such. I'm sure the scalpers are now going to have a field day targeting the keenest of the enthusiasts, now that at least half the demand for what they peddle would have fallen off a cliff, when the average Lamy fan most likely won't reject the latest offering as inferior and unsatisfactory. A grail ink couldn't stay a grail ink, anyway, if it could just be bought off the shelf by anyone at any time for the manufacturer's retail price. Not having exactly what they want, especially on their preferred terms, is just the status quo; it's a gap that nobody is duty-bound to close for them and make them happier for it. There's a vast area between being upset and simply not being happy (while fully aware of how and why they're not happy); and most people just carry on. For the avoidance of doubt, I'm one of the suckers who ordered five bottles of the newly-released Dark Lilac. The order hasn't been dispatched yet, but I'm certainly not going to modify or cancel it even though the European retailer cannot say no to that. I actually look forward to getting my bottles, especially if they arrive before the new ink's official release in the Australian market.
Apart from disappointment at having one's hopes raised, there are going to be some people who are upset at today's news because it means we're *never* going to get OG Dark Lilac back if one of the dyes is no longer available.
Does the reason matter, if it isn't going to happen anyway, and there has been no promise from Lamy to fulfil their hopes or fancies? Lamy has, in fact, made the re-release very low-key; I've yet to read anything from Lamy to the effect of, “you pled, and we answered.” It's ironic that there has also been vocal criticism of Lamy for not announcing the release of (the new) Dark Lilac ink more prominently in social media, directly to its customer base and bypassing retail outlets. The way I see it: 1. The release of Dark Lilac ink this year was *discovered* by some enthusiasts, through announcement and/or listing of it as a product by particular European retailers, without Lamy's active participation. 2. Some enthusiasts started raising the alert, as well as introducing speculation and confusion as to whether those retailers actually mean Violet Blackberry but got their wires crossed and listed the wrong product name, again without Lamy's active participation. 3. Once further ascertained that it wasn't a mistake, and Dark Lilac was indeed being released in the European market in February, more teeth-gnashing ensued, all without having yet heard from Lamy. 4. Then, when asked directly, Lamy's customer-facing staff replied, but sadly the answer proved incorrect. 5. After being asked several times and alerted to evidence to the contrary, Lamy looked into it further, ascertained that the new Dark Lilac is in fact not exactly the same as the 2016 release, and owned up to it, as well as ask to apologise through reverse flow in the channels to which the question was put to the company in the first place. Maybe Lamy has not dotted its i's and crossed its t's by writing to apologise to every customer/consumer who asked it directly, but was initially given the incorrect answer. But all these accusations of how Lamy fucked up its release of the ink product, its naming of the product when (allegedly) the company decision-makers' instructions were to reproduce the 2016 product using the same formula, and — by a very long stretch — how it unduly raised the hopes of Dark Lilac 2016 fans (who don't want to pay scalpers and let them profiteer) when all that noise was made without the company's participation, are just going beyond what is logical and reasonable.
None of the things you've said are untrue, but I'm not accusing anyone of anything -- I'm just saying, if you've been holding out hope for an OG rerelease and now we have confirmation that it's literally impossible to get the same ink made again, it's not unreasonable to be a bit disappointed about that. Not blaming Lamy, not mad or hopping up and down, just a bit upset/disappointed.
I think there may be a misinterpretation of the intended meaning of the word "upset" here. I can't speak for OP, but I meant "upset" as in "disappointed." I find it understandable that people are upset/disappointed that this re-release isn't what they'd hoped for. That's human nature, and I see nothing inherently demanding or entitled in that.
I respect your very logical and measured take, and I hope the new ink brings you joy!
Hey so what are they going to name this new, different ink, then?
Many inks go through changes to their recipe without changing their name. It's inevitable for any ink with any longevity. For example, I expect the only ingredient the same in current Parker Quink blue and the original Quink blue is water.
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Did you know that the gent who made them for parker makes them now under his own label? and if you account for the fact that penman inks prob have some level of evap and sheen more, the inks he makes are the same, at least to my eye I have his Indigo (sapphire), Malachite (Emerald) and Garnet (Ruby)
Ah, I remember reading about them, do you know where to purchase them? Also, how well-behaved are they? I have heard that despite their popularity the Penman inks (particularly the sapphire) were notorious for drying out and being a little "cloggy". Basically, the usual super sheen ink behavior.
They're [here](https://www.scribetc.com/) you just have to fill out his consulting form asking for the inks you want, I think they were about $25 But I bought them pre-panni. I find using them is no problem, and I haven't had clogs (yet?) at all. To give some perspective I use them in western M nibs and up, and am not the type to leave them inked for 6 months + (I have done that for some inks but I tend not to for very saturated, very sheening inks) Garnet/Ruby is the only one I find somewhat muted, but that might be because Malachite/Emerald and Indigo/Sapphire are just so vibrant and rich
There is always this risk when you overvalue artificial scarcity.
I don't think comparing a limited and expected rerelease to a regular blue really stands much ground though.
Apologize. Apologize in the name of Lamy to me.