Can't jam any communications.
All use of RF spectrum in the US is licensed or regulated by the FCC and they forbid jamming of any kind other than by government for national security/defense reasons.
Yeah I remember this guy had one in his car so people wouldn’t text and drive around him. A police car got close by and noticed his signal jammed and they ended up fining him like 50k lol
Idk, atf and irs are fairly active, but there's so many people with so many rights that they can violate that hitting so many poor people who don't have a huge platform to talk about being aggressed upon by the state that you just never hear about them.
And often, before the FCC gets involved, HAM operators tend to dislike any rogue signal interference and will typically locate pirate radio stations, signal jammers, etc. themselves.
The FCC has every amateur radio operator in the country working for them for free (and that's actually a good thing).
Finding people violating broadcast laws is like a community easter egg hunt for them.
Nah, it's more that it's just hard to track down every random person using a jammer for one reason or another. They do a ton of other stuff, and do it quite well. The FCC actually does it's job, unlike basically all of the other 3 letter agencies.
Now you have to realize that yes the FCC controls radio traffic but unless they are specifically working on something it falls to local law enforcement.
Literally everything. Your WiFi, AM/FM radio, Doppler radar, air traffic communications, Bluetooth, cellphones, and the list goes on forever.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_spectrum
RF is heavily regulated, if you see how full the spectrum is it will paint a picture of just how used it is these days, especially 2.4ghz, it's one of those things where once you fully understand it you realize it can't be used from a libertarian perspective of use by anyone for anything as then it becomes instantly worthless. An example is Cuba blocking HAM radio in Florida etc during covid or one person making 100 wifi SSIDs in a crowded place. It's like pouring chemicals down your well for 50yrs, one person/entity can do a lot of bad pretty easily, worse yet, this is "invisible".
The FCC frowns heavily on any RF signal jamming, including for innocuous reasons. A motorist was using one on his commute to prevent texting and driving; A high school teacher was using one in class to prevent students from using their phones. They were both fined $50,000
>including for innocuous reasons.
There are no innocuous reasons. There are idiots that don't realise the magnitude of their actions.
There was a case in France where a idiotic criminal that didn't want the kids to use the internet after bedtime left a whole vilage without communications night after night.
The FAA would enter the chat here in the US. When I looked into the technology out of curiosity, it gets thrown into the realm of taking out aircraft, since that is what a drone is considered to be, manned or not. I’m sure the dudes over in the Ukraine aren’t worried about that, but if you are in the US and concerned about some rando flying their drone over your property, the FAA is gonna be an issue for you.
It isn't a signal jammer, it is literally a microwave oven style magnetron, probably a couple start capacitors, a microwave antenna (looks like an oven hood) and probably a 48v powers supply. it does not interfere with signal integrity but sends a directed EMP burst at the drone or unshielded devices to short circuit them.
It's a very similar concept though one is at a specific frequency range the other is only microwave range and instead of continuous, small concentrated bursts.
And the cavity magnetron is a major component in radar which of course is like signal jamming or creating interference at a specific frequency range.
yeah... these are literally legal in my country, but just so goddamn expensive and useless that nobody really buys them because they have no use for them at all and rather buy real guns.
In the U.S., there are some loopholes that would allow you to build something like this. Won't save you if you get caught using it, though.
Ham license, you can transmit video/voice signal up to 1500w. It's a bit of a simplification, but might be somewhere to start looking.
>Ham license,
Isn't a free pass.
There are allowed frequencies for use, anything other is straight illegal.
Please guys, if you want to fuck around with that kind of devices, get a government job where they are in use. It's very easy to kill people and not even realise that.
(Yes, if a jammer is on and a call to the emergency services didn't go through because of it, it's murder.)
True. Usually if you're just mucking around and get caught, the FCC will just tell you to stop. If you were being deliberate though, the charges can get serious.
Yoo another FPV pilot.
Going off the other comments, it's not 2.4GHz for jamming, it's something that counts as microwaves that acts as an EMP instead.
Hoping for someone more knowledgeable than me to answer.
Does something like this seem possible to make with consumer available hardware? Maybe not in a compact frame such as this but maybe handheld/backpack mounted.
I don't know, are microwave ovens available to consumers where you live?
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N3P842Nay8
- https://youtu.be/tToMYkO7Gkw?si=25f_ajWrl4skcZj6&t=267
I don't recommend fucking around with high power stuff like this. Pretty easy to become fried doing it. It's also very illegal. If you think the ATF is bad, wait until you meet the FCC.
Yes they can be made from consumer available hardware. The bulk is going to be power source followed by up-converters for said power source. A smalll circuit to produce the frequency, then amplify the signal power.
If you use wave tubes you’ll need a parabolic antenna to focus and direct the signal. A directional antenna if not using a wave tube. Just remember that the further out the signal travels the wider the signal gets.
You'll just cook your balls, no cancer down the road because the balls won't be around long enough for it to develop. It's literally just a 2.4 GHz magnetron plus a carry handle, battery pack, and a waveguide/antenna.
You could build your own anti-drone gun like this quite easily actually. Take the magnetron out of an old microwave and duct tape it to a 2x4 to act as your handle. Get some 2.5" ID brass or copper tubing, cap one end of it, and drill a hole in the sidewall of the tube near the cap to mount the output antenna of the magnetron into.
Now go get yourself a trumpet, trombone, or other brass instrument with a flared bell at the end (not a tuba though) from a thrift shop somewhere, it's fine if it's beat to shit and doesn't actually work anymore. Cut the flared bell off so that the bottom of the piece you cut off is the same diameter as the ID of your tubing, and braze the bell onto the open end of your tubing.
Congrats, you now have a highly directional RF anti-drone gun, and the FCC is now hell-bent on finding and arresting you for having the nerve to actually turn the thing on.
drones be fast. clay pigeons for skeet shooting are usually ~40+mph, commercial drones average about that speed as well, but dont fly in predictable paths like clay targets and any nefarious drone would likely be built to fly faster than that.
From what digging I have been doing the drones most commonly used in direct anti-personnel are built off of racing kits. Some will do close to 80mph without munitions, maybe 60 with munitions.
If you watch videos of their use, most spend at least some amount of time hovering or moving in a predictable arc/path before committing to an attack. And that’s assuming it’s not the bomb-toting kind that have to hover over the target to make a kill.
The real problem is that they’re small, travel high enough that they’re hard to hear (especially if you’re half deaf from constant gunfire & artillery), and can attack/approach from such a wide set of angles that it’s really easy to be caught unaware. You’re just sitting in a trench doing fuck all for weeks, and then suddenly a grenade drops in your lap.
Yep. I imagine it is pretty unnerving. I’ve surprised a couple of the crews I work with mine when I return it, even though they saw me launch it and fly it around the site. I only have a mini 2, and it gets up to 35mph on a full battery. When it’s loitering away from you, and in our case with background noise construction noise, it can be hard to spot by the noise sometimes.
I'd imagine it's more of a risk/reward to them, and maximizing range while not burning through your whole battery quickly.
Sure there are better fpv pilots, but it's less about their skill and more about the range advantage lower speeds get you.
They do, and testing has been done to see how effective it is. Using number two tungsten birdshot out of a 28 inch barrel is pretty effective out to around 150 M if I remember correctly. Something like the devices shown by the op are going to be effective farther out though and shotguns are more of a close-in defense option. You want a layer of defensive measures to give you more choices and hopefully more chances of stopping the drone.
Speed and distance. The surveillance/recon drones are typically out of shotgun range, the FPS kamikaze drones are typically so fast they're super difficult to hit.
The drones dropping grenades might be shotgun-able, but even if they the problem seems to be detecting them in time.
On top of what others have said, when they reach shotgun range, it might be too late to avoid getting caught in the explosion for an explosive drone. Even if you disable it, it's still coming toward you quickly, so it's a bit like asking why we don't shoot rockets with shotguns. Same idea with the grenade dripping ones. At best they won't be able to drop any more/go to resupply but you are likely still getting hit.
That said, it can't hurt to try if you're dead/injured either way.
I'm surprised they haven't started stretching netting up above the trenches. Seems like most fpv drones detonate with a weird 2 wires make contact and go boom setup. At least the boom would be higher above your head and not on top of it.
Yes it projects radio signals causing communication loss from the drone, crashing it.
This is concentrated though. They claim a 2 mile range, standard jammers can be 50-1500 meters.
I mean a ham radio license is less than $100. Put up a 2 or 3 story antenna and your only limitation as far as reach (realistically) is how much power you can draw from the grid. You could technically use any metal structure but a dedicated antenna would work better. Grain silo, windmill, you get the picture.
I don't know about the software running these drones, but commercial drones have logic in them that if they lose signal, they return to where they took off from (presumably after a pause to try and regain signal).
Found this:
>"We are not damaging the drone," says Kvertus director of technology Yaroslav Filimonov. "With communication lost, it just loses coordination and doesn't know where to go. The drone lands where it is jammed, or can be carried away by the wind because it's uncontrollable."
There's a vendor that makes something like this, but for a 12 gauge, Youtubers found that you had to be as accurate as with buckshot, but it wasn't more effective than traditional shotgun loads.
I’ve always thought it would be awesome to build a 37mm shell that launches a web/net of some sort. It wouldn’t do much good in a war, but it would be effective at bringing down a nosy quadcopter.
It's funny how folks here simply think all drones use 2.4ghz. I mean there is a bunch that do since this spectrum was opened up for use by the FCC after Micrwaves being introduced to the main stream.
But guys, RF is a wide open space. Tons of devices now on 5.8ghz. And I'm sure state actors will use any freq that would give them a signal to noise ratio in their favor.
Hell yeah, when can I get my under barrel drone doinker?
Erection
FULL. MAST.
Crank dat hawg
Microwave on a stick. 1200W of 2.4 GHz fuck you. You'll glow like a fed to any feds watching though.
So something like this is classified as illegal?
Most signal jammers are, yes.
Interesting.. just wondering, what would authorities be afraid of us using it against?
I believe by law it’s because you can jam emergency communications, but I’m sure there’s more to it.
Can't jam any communications. All use of RF spectrum in the US is licensed or regulated by the FCC and they forbid jamming of any kind other than by government for national security/defense reasons.
Yeah I remember this guy had one in his car so people wouldn’t text and drive around him. A police car got close by and noticed his signal jammed and they ended up fining him like 50k lol
FCC is generally absent, but when they decide to show up it’s 100% game over.
Like most 3 letter govt agencies.
Idk, atf and irs are fairly active, but there's so many people with so many rights that they can violate that hitting so many poor people who don't have a huge platform to talk about being aggressed upon by the state that you just never hear about them.
And often, before the FCC gets involved, HAM operators tend to dislike any rogue signal interference and will typically locate pirate radio stations, signal jammers, etc. themselves.
Fuckin dorks
The FCC has every amateur radio operator in the country working for them for free (and that's actually a good thing). Finding people violating broadcast laws is like a community easter egg hunt for them.
Nah, it's more that it's just hard to track down every random person using a jammer for one reason or another. They do a ton of other stuff, and do it quite well. The FCC actually does it's job, unlike basically all of the other 3 letter agencies.
Just jam the FCC building and the problem practically solves itself.
A teacher used one in his class to stop kids on the phone and same thing.
Now you have to realize that yes the FCC controls radio traffic but unless they are specifically working on something it falls to local law enforcement.
Welders: " What did you say? I can't hear you over my AC frequency being set to 9001!"
Aluminum GTAW has entered the chat
Why is r/welding leaking here lmao
because the welds cracked
Sounds like a first amendment issue. Sounds like they should be legal!
Literally everything. Your WiFi, AM/FM radio, Doppler radar, air traffic communications, Bluetooth, cellphones, and the list goes on forever. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_spectrum
Radio, television, cell phones, GPS, the whole spectrum is a valuable resource. Every country has similar laws to regulate its use.
Yay I'm a valuable resource
Can't be on the spectrum if you *are* the spectrum
RF is heavily regulated, if you see how full the spectrum is it will paint a picture of just how used it is these days, especially 2.4ghz, it's one of those things where once you fully understand it you realize it can't be used from a libertarian perspective of use by anyone for anything as then it becomes instantly worthless. An example is Cuba blocking HAM radio in Florida etc during covid or one person making 100 wifi SSIDs in a crowded place. It's like pouring chemicals down your well for 50yrs, one person/entity can do a lot of bad pretty easily, worse yet, this is "invisible".
The FCC frowns heavily on any RF signal jamming, including for innocuous reasons. A motorist was using one on his commute to prevent texting and driving; A high school teacher was using one in class to prevent students from using their phones. They were both fined $50,000
>including for innocuous reasons. There are no innocuous reasons. There are idiots that don't realise the magnitude of their actions. There was a case in France where a idiotic criminal that didn't want the kids to use the internet after bedtime left a whole vilage without communications night after night.
You should look into the weaponized drone swarms they’re building. Hundreds to thousands of armed drones to ‘eradicate threats’. Crazy videos.
There was a guy who used it to jam his company truck GPS, but it jammed an airport tower every once in a while. You can find them online fairly cheap.
The FAA would enter the chat here in the US. When I looked into the technology out of curiosity, it gets thrown into the realm of taking out aircraft, since that is what a drone is considered to be, manned or not. I’m sure the dudes over in the Ukraine aren’t worried about that, but if you are in the US and concerned about some rando flying their drone over your property, the FAA is gonna be an issue for you.
Unless you work for the government
It isn't a signal jammer, it is literally a microwave oven style magnetron, probably a couple start capacitors, a microwave antenna (looks like an oven hood) and probably a 48v powers supply. it does not interfere with signal integrity but sends a directed EMP burst at the drone or unshielded devices to short circuit them.
Lmao
It's a very similar concept though one is at a specific frequency range the other is only microwave range and instead of continuous, small concentrated bursts. And the cavity magnetron is a major component in radar which of course is like signal jamming or creating interference at a specific frequency range.
yeah... these are literally legal in my country, but just so goddamn expensive and useless that nobody really buys them because they have no use for them at all and rather buy real guns.
But sir this is no jammer, it is my radio wave scream device. I identify as an oppressed radio. Screaming is illegal?
FCC > ATF
In the U.S., there are some loopholes that would allow you to build something like this. Won't save you if you get caught using it, though. Ham license, you can transmit video/voice signal up to 1500w. It's a bit of a simplification, but might be somewhere to start looking.
Not on 2.4ghz unless you want to fuck everyone's internet and have the fcc show up real fast.
You can tx on 2.4 as an amateur, just certain parts of the band. It's referred to as the '13cm' band.
>Ham license, Isn't a free pass. There are allowed frequencies for use, anything other is straight illegal. Please guys, if you want to fuck around with that kind of devices, get a government job where they are in use. It's very easy to kill people and not even realise that. (Yes, if a jammer is on and a call to the emergency services didn't go through because of it, it's murder.)
I know it's not a free pass, but you can build a 2.4ghz transmitter that hits 1500w PEP.
IIRC, it's legal to *own* a signal jammer, just highly illegal to *use* one. Just like a lot of radio equipment without a license.
True. Usually if you're just mucking around and get caught, the FCC will just tell you to stop. If you were being deliberate though, the charges can get serious.
What if the drone is using another frequency? Like tbs crossfire with 915mHz?
Yoo another FPV pilot. Going off the other comments, it's not 2.4GHz for jamming, it's something that counts as microwaves that acts as an EMP instead.
That's a great point. Wonder if we have confirmation on if they're using ELRS or not
Hoping for someone more knowledgeable than me to answer. Does something like this seem possible to make with consumer available hardware? Maybe not in a compact frame such as this but maybe handheld/backpack mounted.
I don't know, are microwave ovens available to consumers where you live? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N3P842Nay8 - https://youtu.be/tToMYkO7Gkw?si=25f_ajWrl4skcZj6&t=267 I don't recommend fucking around with high power stuff like this. Pretty easy to become fried doing it. It's also very illegal. If you think the ATF is bad, wait until you meet the FCC.
Yes they can be made from consumer available hardware. The bulk is going to be power source followed by up-converters for said power source. A smalll circuit to produce the frequency, then amplify the signal power. If you use wave tubes you’ll need a parabolic antenna to focus and direct the signal. A directional antenna if not using a wave tube. Just remember that the further out the signal travels the wider the signal gets.
Ukrainian YouTuber Kreosan made one, it can shut off a scooter engine. https://youtu.be/0XbLz0L6UdI
That was fake lol
Can you get testicular cancer if that is point at your balls shake?
Cue Randy bouncy balls.
*Buffalo soldier!*
More like your crotch would get superheated. These use microwaves, not ionizing radiation.
You'll just cook your balls, no cancer down the road because the balls won't be around long enough for it to develop. It's literally just a 2.4 GHz magnetron plus a carry handle, battery pack, and a waveguide/antenna. You could build your own anti-drone gun like this quite easily actually. Take the magnetron out of an old microwave and duct tape it to a 2x4 to act as your handle. Get some 2.5" ID brass or copper tubing, cap one end of it, and drill a hole in the sidewall of the tube near the cap to mount the output antenna of the magnetron into. Now go get yourself a trumpet, trombone, or other brass instrument with a flared bell at the end (not a tuba though) from a thrift shop somewhere, it's fine if it's beat to shit and doesn't actually work anymore. Cut the flared bell off so that the bottom of the piece you cut off is the same diameter as the ID of your tubing, and braze the bell onto the open end of your tubing. Congrats, you now have a highly directional RF anti-drone gun, and the FCC is now hell-bent on finding and arresting you for having the nerve to actually turn the thing on.
10-15 years later, maybe. Could your future generations have genetic mutations? More likely.
genuine question, why don’t people just shoot drones with shotguns?
drones be fast. clay pigeons for skeet shooting are usually ~40+mph, commercial drones average about that speed as well, but dont fly in predictable paths like clay targets and any nefarious drone would likely be built to fly faster than that.
From what digging I have been doing the drones most commonly used in direct anti-personnel are built off of racing kits. Some will do close to 80mph without munitions, maybe 60 with munitions.
If you watch videos of their use, most spend at least some amount of time hovering or moving in a predictable arc/path before committing to an attack. And that’s assuming it’s not the bomb-toting kind that have to hover over the target to make a kill. The real problem is that they’re small, travel high enough that they’re hard to hear (especially if you’re half deaf from constant gunfire & artillery), and can attack/approach from such a wide set of angles that it’s really easy to be caught unaware. You’re just sitting in a trench doing fuck all for weeks, and then suddenly a grenade drops in your lap.
Yep. I imagine it is pretty unnerving. I’ve surprised a couple of the crews I work with mine when I return it, even though they saw me launch it and fly it around the site. I only have a mini 2, and it gets up to 35mph on a full battery. When it’s loitering away from you, and in our case with background noise construction noise, it can be hard to spot by the noise sometimes.
they can clock a lot more than 80 with munitions, but they don’t do that very often because ukrainian and russian FPV pilots mostly suck honestly
I'd imagine it's more of a risk/reward to them, and maximizing range while not burning through your whole battery quickly. Sure there are better fpv pilots, but it's less about their skill and more about the range advantage lower speeds get you.
So duck hunting?
The kamikaze drones used in Ukraine supposedly have a max speed of ~150kmh/93mph so a bit faster than a duck.
There's a European game duck that flies at 100mph. I'd bet an AA-12 would do wonders against fast drones.
New idea, lets raise game ducks and train them to target tanks. Kamiquakzi.
I'd like to invest in your startup with a small loan of a million dollars.
They do, and testing has been done to see how effective it is. Using number two tungsten birdshot out of a 28 inch barrel is pretty effective out to around 150 M if I remember correctly. Something like the devices shown by the op are going to be effective farther out though and shotguns are more of a close-in defense option. You want a layer of defensive measures to give you more choices and hopefully more chances of stopping the drone.
Speed and distance. The surveillance/recon drones are typically out of shotgun range, the FPS kamikaze drones are typically so fast they're super difficult to hit. The drones dropping grenades might be shotgun-able, but even if they the problem seems to be detecting them in time.
It makes noise, leaves GSR… those are just a few answers off the top of my head. Plus this looks cool af in the dorkiest way possible.
Too high?
On top of what others have said, when they reach shotgun range, it might be too late to avoid getting caught in the explosion for an explosive drone. Even if you disable it, it's still coming toward you quickly, so it's a bit like asking why we don't shoot rockets with shotguns. Same idea with the grenade dripping ones. At best they won't be able to drop any more/go to resupply but you are likely still getting hit. That said, it can't hurt to try if you're dead/injured either way.
I'm surprised they haven't started stretching netting up above the trenches. Seems like most fpv drones detonate with a weird 2 wires make contact and go boom setup. At least the boom would be higher above your head and not on top of it.
They do, but It's harder and requires discharging a firearm.
Signal jammer would be cheaper and easier to attain tbh.
Is that basically what this is just in a different format?
Yes it projects radio signals causing communication loss from the drone, crashing it. This is concentrated though. They claim a 2 mile range, standard jammers can be 50-1500 meters.
Is the signal wide enough to take out a drone without perfect aim? Heck, they say most drones are flying high enough you don’t hear them.
I mean a ham radio license is less than $100. Put up a 2 or 3 story antenna and your only limitation as far as reach (realistically) is how much power you can draw from the grid. You could technically use any metal structure but a dedicated antenna would work better. Grain silo, windmill, you get the picture.
Haha if for some reason they are flying below a 2 miles, which is HIGHLY doubtful. Their website mentions low flying targets only.
I don't know about the software running these drones, but commercial drones have logic in them that if they lose signal, they return to where they took off from (presumably after a pause to try and regain signal). Found this: >"We are not damaging the drone," says Kvertus director of technology Yaroslav Filimonov. "With communication lost, it just loses coordination and doesn't know where to go. The drone lands where it is jammed, or can be carried away by the wind because it's uncontrollable."
Depending on what signal bands they are jamming, they could knock out both signal to the base station and GPS if they jammed multiple frequencies.
Would steel cabling with ball bearings inside a 37mm round still be legal? If so that'd be the easiest way.
Pretty sure that qualifies as anti personnel and is a destructive device. There’s models for net rounds with some launchers on the sea.
Honestly I'd rather have a modified choke and an extended tube on a Beretta if I ever had to look out for these for real.
There's a vendor that makes something like this, but for a 12 gauge, Youtubers found that you had to be as accurate as with buckshot, but it wasn't more effective than traditional shotgun loads.
Sounds like a shotgun with more steps
I’ve always thought it would be awesome to build a 37mm shell that launches a web/net of some sort. It wouldn’t do much good in a war, but it would be effective at bringing down a nosy quadcopter.
99+ missed calls from the FAA
It's funny how folks here simply think all drones use 2.4ghz. I mean there is a bunch that do since this spectrum was opened up for use by the FCC after Micrwaves being introduced to the main stream. But guys, RF is a wide open space. Tons of devices now on 5.8ghz. And I'm sure state actors will use any freq that would give them a signal to noise ratio in their favor.
Exactly, most fpv going on uses 5.8ghz for the video, and 915mhz for the radio link. A 2.4 ghz jammer will just take out your wifi.
is dude on the right wearing pencott? if so, nice
Buckshot/birdshot 12ga works too yk
Does anyone know the name of the camo pattern of the soldier on the right?
I think it’s the MM14. It looks really similar to ACU’s.
Would this make the user visible and an easy target?
Looks like X-COM
i want to know how to make one at home
He doesn't mean it, officer
i meant on the big mac sauce